Splinter Group to Furniture School: Woodworking, Business and Belonging

In this episode of Creatives Like Us I sit down with Helen Welch, founder of London Furniture School and a woodworker of 42 years. Helen shares how leaving school early led her to a community carpentry scheme which set the course for her career. We talk about her journey through building control back to making, what it's like being one of the few women and people of colour in craft industries, and why visibility matters so much in changing that. Helen also gets real about business, community and what she'd tell her younger self. 

Connect with Helen:

 🔗 https://furnitureschool.co.uk/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/helen-welch-lsf/

 📸 Instagram: @_london_furniture_school

Transcript

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Angela Lyons (00:02.094)
Hello and welcome to Creatives Like Us, a podcast where we open up conversations about what it really means to build a creative career when you're black or brown. I'm your host, brand and marketing graphics designer Angela Lyons. In my guest episodes, I sit down with creatives who are out there doing the work, navigating the industries, and proving that there's space for all of us. Because the more we share, the more we see our stories out there, and the more we see ourselves reflected.

And the more we realise we're not alone in this. Okay then, are you ready? Let's dive into today's episode.

Angela Lyons (00:41.006)
Hello and welcome to Creatives Like Us. Helen, I'm so excited to talk to you and thank you for joining me today. Can you tell people where you are in the world and what type of creative you are?

Helen Welch (00:49.962)
Okay, I'm Helen Welch and I'm in London. That's London, England for anyone who's confused and I am primarily a woodworker but general tinkerer of things and with materials.

Angela Lyons (01:01.582)
That sounds interesting.

Helen Welch (01:04.296)
It just means I do loads. Loads not very well. Wood is my primary medium, but everything else is kind of, I'll have a go at that and I'll have a go at that.

Angela Lyons (01:11.766)
Yeah. And what what made you get into wood?

Helen Welch (01:14.474)
Well, mostly because I was asked to leave school in the second year of my A-levels because I hadn't been going and I was just finding the whole thing of being in school. Not tired, so I didn't think it was for me anymore. I think the staff decided that they weren't really interested in what I was doing, so I thought if you're not interested in me, I'm not interested in you. And then it was a little bit of a standoff and then they said, well, if you're not going to come, then you might as well leave. So I thought.

Thanks for asking why I'm not having a good time. Yeah, I took him up on the offer.

Angela Lyons (01:45.218)
Serious?

So the offer tended to be a good thing.

Helen Welch (01:53.442)
Yeah, I think so. think so. Well, a week later, I met some people who were running a YTS scheme, which was teaching carpentry and joinery. And they said, you're doing nothing. Come along. It's this February. There's nothing else to do. Why don't you come along and see if you like what we're doing? a week later, I joined them and I had a lovely time for six months until their scheme got closed down. But that was the start of it. And then I carried on and ended up.

as an apprentice carpenter with Camden Council.

Angela Lyons (02:24.726)
Wow, so it wasn't nothing to do with school that you had s a love of woodwork there. It was more so when you left school and this the scheme come in front of you and says, basically, do you wanna do this?

Helen Welch (02:34.162)
Yeah, the irony was that six months after I left I heard that they'd introduced woodwork for girls, so... Seriously. Timing.

Angela Lyons (02:42.552)
Sarah's like So we're girls were not allowed to do the woodwork before at school.

Helen Welch (02:48.108)
No, we had Home Ec, that's all we had. But we were next door to William Ellis Boys School and they did do woodwork. So eventually they were showing facilities. And that's how our school ended up having woodwork with their school.

Angela Lyons (03:03.384)
Wow. So let's if you don't mind, let's talk about a little bit of that journey, 'cause I always ask like my guests about catalyst connections and it sounds like that Y T S scheme was some something that was put in your place to make you go in the path that you are right now. Is that right?

Helen Welch (03:16.814)
Well, you know what, if it hadn't turned up, I would have done something else. Yeah. As long as it was something interesting and creative, I probably would have done it. And I didn't really do much of that in school because I thought I was going to do something in science because I always loved chemistry, I loved biology, but at A level, it just wasn't working for me for various reasons. that's what I thought I was going to do. I thought I was going to have a scientific kind of job. But the woodworking was something that ignited

the fun I had was a child making things and breaking things mostly, to be fair, wasn't much making, mostly taking things apart to say how they worked and then not being able to put them all back together again. But that time at Splinter Group, the name of the community works group.

Angela Lyons (04:01.742)
See what they did there?

Helen Welch (04:05.45)
I did certainly do. You know what, they were fantastic people and I'm still in touch with them now. We missed each other for a few decades and then they got back in touch with me about five years ago and we just clicked and it's the same. It's the same fun, same great people.

Angela Lyons (04:22.626)
Yeah, yeah. Well, they must have seen also what you're doing, the most amazing things that you're doing and wha where your life has led you from that scheme.

Helen Welch (04:30.702)
Yeah, it is. And it's directly down to them. That was the catalyst. And I am forever thankful that they saw me looking a little bit lost and said, come join us. And I found a community with them. Yeah. And just thought, actually, this is something I could probably do for another 50 years. I've done it for 42 now.

Angela Lyons (04:55.16)
So wow, wow. And were you the only woman in that course at the time?

Helen Welch (04:59.038)
No, my best friend from school, she left at the same time, so we went and joined together.

Angela Lyons (05:04.758)
You were like, We're gonna do this together and united.

Helen Welch (05:07.374)
Well actually, to be fair, we weren't the only women because there were two women on the teaching side and then I think there were a couple of other women floated around or had been on the scheme before. it was, I didn't go in and go, it's only me. It was actually probably majority women.

Angela Lyons (05:25.912)
Really? Interesting. Cause when you find those I was 'cause I was I did a do my degree in product design and there was that centric not product design nowadays that people call it products as that not the tech side of product design, but actually going making stuff and and in a workshop like with wood and metal and ceramics, you know. And there was about sixty of us on the course and I think about maybe about a handful of us are female. There was like there was hardly any females on the course.

Helen Welch (05:39.03)
in a workshop.

Angela Lyons (05:55.406)
And I it was only two black people too, two black females and that was it. So so yeah, it's just interesting you say it was quite female heavy. That's that's really interesting they so is your best friend actually doing woodwork now still?

Helen Welch (06:08.418)
No, no, because I haven't seen her in the last maybe 35 years. Wow. we both actually, what happened? At some point after we'd done our training, we both ended up working for building control in the local authority and then she went and worked for a completely different borough. And I left building control and decided I want to do something, go back to doing something creative. So we've lost touch, I don't know where she is.

Sam, if you're listening, say hi.

Angela Lyons (06:40.907)
if Sam Listin would will tell us to get in touch with you. Yeah, a hundred percent.

Helen Welch (06:46.184)
I'm still in the same flat.

Angela Lyons (06:48.478)
She'll know where that is. She'll perfect perfect. So tell us about from so from the scheme that led to the building control you says, and then what happened there?

Helen Welch (06:58.862)
No, the scheme led to a three year apprenticeship with Camden. And then from Camden that led on to building control. So I worked for two and a half years with Camden and another two and a half years with Islington. And then after five years of building control and telling other people what to do, but not actually doing much myself, I was like, this is no good. I'm missing the doing and the being in a workspace and just, you know, know, what creativity is. It's about being human and it's not about

Angela Lyons (07:25.602)
Yeah, exactly.

Shuffling papers and data.

Helen Welch (07:31.118)
Yeah, exactly, and telling people, yes, your building's passed its inspection. So I needed to find a way back to the woodwork side. I went and did a degree in music technology, not because I was interested in music, but because I wanted to make guitars.

Angela Lyons (07:40.76)
What was that way back?

Angela Lyons (07:49.976)
Serious. I can see what this the podcast isn't video yet, but it will get to videos. But I can see Hella's got some guitars in the backgrounds. you made those. That's amazing.

Helen Welch (08:00.526)
Yeah. So yeah, that was one of the things that I did. So I spent three years doing that. I mean, I actually didn't need to do a degree. I wish it hadn't been a degree, to be honest. I wish it had just been something like a diploma course, which meant I would have spent more time making and less time on all the pardon my French bullshit, subjects around it that were filling it out to turn it into a degree course.

Angela Lyons (08:25.624)
Yeah. But do you play guitar? Just out of interest?

Helen Welch (08:28.536)
Kind of, kind of, and there's in no way good at it, but I do like doing it.

Angela Lyons (08:33.038)
So when I was interested, so when you make them, do have to understand the sound that it's making? Is that why you did the degree? Is that what is that the connect?

Helen Welch (08:40.174)
The connect was the only way I could have done a full-time study to make a guitar was by doing a degree.

Angela Lyons (08:48.288)
Interesting. Okay. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure I wonder if it's still like that 'cause that's a long time to learn something.

Helen Welch (08:50.488)
Well, certainly here in London.

Helen Welch (08:56.334)
Oh, you can't do a degree in guitar making now. They've got rid of all the facilities at the university because they're expensive. Oh, for sure. So it's probably all digital now anyway.

Angela Lyons (09:08.034)
Must have got a three D printer doing everything now. No, we shouldn't say that. We shouldn't say that because we need the crafts, we need the handcrafts, don't we? We

Helen Welch (09:14.094)
We do need the crafts. do need the crafts. But I just like making things. I like to know how things work. I thought, well, why not make a guitar?

Angela Lyons (09:21.154)
Yeah, yeah. And what did that later?

Helen Welch (09:23.872)
It led to was me thinking, do you know what? I'm not going to make a living making guitars.

Angela Lyons (09:30.41)
You got too thought about the bottom line, didn't you? You were like, I to make some dosh.

Helen Welch (09:33.742)
I did. I mean, I loved it. I loved it. And I have to say it was probably some of the happiest times I've had because I just spent so much time in a workshop doing stuff. no, I decided that if I wasn't going to be able to earn a living doing that, then I was going to teach. So I taught part-time, did evening classes during the degree. And then when I finished, I went self-employed.

just as a general carpenter and joiner because that's what my apprenticeship was in. So I made things, I fixed things, I built things and I did that for a long time and mixed that up with the teaching.

Angela Lyons (10:14.848)
Nice. I'm trying to think there's a place in Shoreditch. It was kind of famous for cabinet making and round Yeah. Did you

Helen Welch (10:20.495)
It was the London College of Furniture.

Angela Lyons (10:23.404)
London College Furniture and the that area was

Helen Welch (10:25.602)
which was part of London Met. And then gradually the college disappeared and the university then taught some of the classes or courses that were part of the furniture making. They don't really do any of that now.

Angela Lyons (10:28.142)
Yes, yes, yes, yeah.

Angela Lyons (10:42.594)
Yeah. So such a shame. Such a shame. No, 'cause I remember that and also that 'cause you know like pockets of London have like like hand garden is like the diamonds and Billersgate is like, you know, the the the fish. But there was there was like a cabinet making there wasn't they was it insured? It was insured.

Helen Welch (11:00.264)
Yeah, there used to be loads of little shops you could pop into, like veneer shops and they're all dusty and they've been there for a hundred years and you could go in and leaf through rosewood and fantastic things like that. that's all gone. That's all that people and...

Angela Lyons (11:14.166)
But it's all it's all media and bars and karaoke and

Helen Welch (11:21.313)
You need more karaoke!

Angela Lyons (11:23.608)
True.

No, we've got enough of those. We don't need any more bars, this childage. I'm just I've just heard you talk about woods and things like that. So I'm just trying to get your journey because I know I know what your where it's led to. Because what I'm trying to get to is like I just I I know that you now are the founder of the London School of Furniture Making and I'm just wondering how you got to that. You've got your own school.

Helen Welch (11:40.6)
Tony's a mess.

Helen Welch (11:53.718)
Wow. Okay. So for ages, I was thinking I need a workshop because if I really want to just make furniture and not keep getting caught up in the spinner of making built-in cupboards and things, is nothing, there's nothing wrong with it as a way of making a living. It's great, but it was only using about 10 % of what I know. And because most of it is MDF and there's not enough of it, but you can use solid timber because of my client base, not wanting to spend that kind of money. I

Well, if I have a workshop, then I can actually start making the furniture that I want to keep making. I a borrowed a workshop and then eventually started renting a communal workshop in Tottenham. And that was all fine. But then suddenly my overheads were much bigger than I'd had before. And I just wasn't getting enough work in. I thought if I want to keep the workshop, need to do something, need to pivot.

find something that's going to bring in some money to cover the rent, at least cover the rent. And so that's when I started the school. Because I've taught for over 30 years, and I've taught for colleges and universities and various other little private schools like mine. So thought, well, why am I going to someone else's workspace? I have a workspace. I'm going to do my own. And I would have done it a few years before, because I was going to do it with a friend. Yeah.

Angela Lyons (13:09.904)
Is that my?

Helen Welch (13:21.294)
then that didn't work out, but it had always been at the back of my mind that I could probably do something if I had the right environment. So I asked our landlords, said, what do you think if I start teaching instead of just making stuff? And they're like, yeah, fine, but don't let them use the machinery. Okay. um, it's a communal workshop. was big and a commercial space. So if our students were in there, they'd be taking up space and just annoying everybody. So I said, no, it's fine. We'll only be teaching hand skills.

at that point.

Angela Lyons (13:52.276)
Right, right, okay. So

Helen Welch (13:53.858)
So it started off with an evening and then it started off, then it went to another evening and then it went to a day and then a few days. And then I thought, you know what, sod this making stuff for people in greats. Why don't I just go full time doing this? just, so I took a punt thinking there's like, there's 9 million people in the city. Surely I can get a handful to come on courses regularly. So I went full time.

I had four students, then I got another space during COVID, so then I was able to take seven students. And then last year we moved into our new space in Camden. And now we can have up to 16. Yeah. That's it. So now we're in our own grownup space and it's brilliant.

Angela Lyons (14:35.992)
Most then.

Angela Lyons (14:42.232)
That's brilliant. And how how are you finding it and how you finding it? Is it scary still or is it still is it is every day worrying? It's always scary. Yeah.

Helen Welch (14:52.654)
Yeah, it's business. I only takes a war in a run to put people off booking for a while. mean, that's across the board. That's every business who has to deal with external inferences that you're like, oh God, I don't plan for this. So yeah, so this year bookings have slowed a bit, but the upside is that people like our courses. We've got a huge range. Well, it's not huge, but we've got a big range of courses and people mostly want to come on.

Maybe about 90 % of them is a 10 % which is just because I like them. I like the courses even though it's not a big seller.

Angela Lyons (15:33.516)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. how do you market yourself?

Helen Welch (15:37.474)
It's mostly the website. So SEO, it's the website has always been the main portal where people come and find us. I do a bit of Instagram content, but honestly, I don't have time to do all of the work that you need to, to really make Instagram be a marketing tool. I mean, it's, yeah, it's content every day and I haven't got time for that.

Angela Lyons (16:00.91)
Doesn't have to be every day.

Helen Welch (16:02.774)
Well, it can be, well, it needs a lot. It needs a lot. you know, kind of that we do, what I really need to be do, need to do for Instagram is show us teaching and show us making things, but it's exhausting and trying to teach and set up cameras and all of that. It's like, just don't have it. I don't have the time.

Angela Lyons (16:23.598)
I can imagine that. Just just only because I like helping people, just like but it could be just something you just even put a your phone on a tripod and just leave it there running for a couple of sessions and then you can stip it later. I know it's another job, but it's another job.

Helen Welch (16:37.686)
It's another job. I have three part-time jobs and they're all about running this business. There's the teaching side of it, there's the marketing side of it, there's the keeping the workshop running. I could find a few others, I'm sure. Cleaning the toilets. All stuff that has to get done and it's mostly done by me and then some of it's done by my colleagues.

Angela Lyons (16:43.659)
Today a wow.

Angela Lyons (17:06.478)
That's the thing by owning your own business, you've got so many hats, haven't you? And it's just it's quite hard.

Helen Welch (17:10.252)
and I don't get paid for any of them. I know.

Angela Lyons (17:12.442)
that's the thing. But but you're doing it out of passion, aren't you? You're doing it out passion. And y it sounds like you're doing it out of passion and I can see your face, you're like, but I need to make more money. Tell me, tell me. Why's your face like that?

Helen Welch (17:28.27)
And you know what, need to, I could probably, what I need to do is cut my overheads. That's what I need to do. Cause actually I think we are, you know, our courses are selling out. So it means that the overhead side probably needs to be snipped here and there. because we, because we moved in the last 12 months, it meant that last year's spend was enormous. And just coming at the other side of that, I we had to spend tens of thousands to get it going.

and fill up the space and make the benches and get more equipment in. And so now we're just coming out of that into a space where hopefully there's there are outgoings. So that's the look on my face.

Angela Lyons (18:07.662)
It's been a tough yeah. It's been a tough yeah. It's 'cause but it's been a tough year of growth, it sounds, but the growth comes at at a cost, literally. Yeah.

Helen Welch (18:16.332)
Yeah, you've got to spend money to make a little bit on top. But that's, you know, that's true of every business. And when I was making things for people, trying to explain why the price is the price is exhausting because nobody sees it and nobody's sympathetic to the fact that you spend tens of thousands a year on your equipment, tens of thousands on your workspace and all the rest of that. Why aren't you cheaper than so-and-so? Look, I'm tired of explaining.

Stop doing it.

Angela Lyons (18:46.454)
I stopped explain Yeah. Just stop explaining and also they're paying for a craft. They're paying for your you know, your your years of your years of expertise and your craft.

Helen Welch (18:55.992)
Yeah, they are. But you know, don't, now I realize that I don't have to sell that to make my living. It means that I can keep the craft side personal. course, like I've got time for the craft side, but I'm going to tell you that I'm keeping the craft side personal.

Angela Lyons (19:12.878)
Yeah.

Then you will show me that you've done some things personally on the side. I will. And you'll put it on Instagram, yeah.

Helen Welch (19:23.864)
I get to make another guitar, it would be great. If I get to do it this year, it's definitely going on Instagram.

Angela Lyons (19:25.346)
Yeah.

Angela Lyons (19:29.112)
Yeah yeah. And do you sell your guitars? You don't? They're just personal. Okay. Just out of interest, why would you not sell them?

Helen Welch (19:33.774)
That's just mine.

Helen Welch (19:37.902)
I don't think they're good enough to sell. think that's the first thing. Even though I started doing guitar making years ago, I haven't done a lot in the intervening years. And it takes quite, like every craft, it takes 10, maybe 15 before you get to the point you go, right, this is ready for the wider audience. So I'm not at that stage yet. It is interesting. mean, there are other things. There are other things which are less complicated, which I could probably make and sell. But again, then that's another business.

Angela Lyons (19:58.806)
It's interesting.

Helen Welch (20:07.47)
Yeah, that's the second business to have to work on and the second business to market. Yeah.

Angela Lyons (20:12.918)
You know. I did see that you've got a course on domestica. I don't know how long that is or how how how recently you've done that. But is there any more tell us about that course and is there any more that you've done or is that something another avenue that you can investigate?

Helen Welch (20:28.824)
So the domestica was great because they came to me and said, we'll pay you X amount of money to do this content. And then if you, we, I think if you sell something like $200,000 worth of, of courses, then there will be some more money coming your way. hasn't been any more money coming my way. And that's fine. because they took care of the production. So I got to see what professional studio looks like and what goes into it. And I thought, wow, that's a lot.

Yeah, that's a lot. And for me to do those kinds of courses, I would need something similar. And again, the time to do it. And we're in a workshop that isn't quiet. We're in a railway arch.

Angela Lyons (21:11.49)
there's always gonna be something. Yeah.

Helen Welch (21:13.182)
Yeah, so with something rumbling over a five minutes interval, so it's not an easy thing for me to be able to see myself doing in the next while, but it's always been an idea that it would be great to just get the courses done and then have them online and have them available for purchase or streaming or something or download. But, say love you.

Angela Lyons (21:35.342)
But it's good though, but I'm saying it's actually it's it's really good that you've got that domestic of course there that, you know, that could be it's just another, you know, bit of content you could keep on like resharing and resharing. It's just and you've actually got it all there. And it looks good. It looks really good. They their setup's really nice, domestically, or they do their

Helen Welch (21:52.8)
It is in the studio that they were using in the Angel was just fantastic. I was like, wow, all this kit, this is what I need. like, no, you don't, Helen, you don't need all this kit. There's nowhere to keep it. You've already got a shit ton of kit for woodworking and machining, so just stop it.

Angela Lyons (22:10.304)
The shiny knee. It's a shiny knee syndrome.

Helen Welch (22:13.806)
It's for me. And yet another thing to have a go at. Yeah, another creative avenue.

Angela Lyons (22:17.87)
Yeah, exactly.

so you're doing the teaching right now and you said you've got your creative projects going on. Is there anything like right now that you're excited about in work?

Helen Welch (22:32.512)
in work? No. And I say that in a way that's good because I've put a lot of time and energy into getting new people in to teach, getting some new courses off the ground and they are working and people are enjoying them. So I can actually sit back now. I'm not at that point of going, my God, is this going to work or not? Are people going to want to come? So I'm like, yeah, that's okay. That's okay.

And actually I don't want to be over excited by the school. I want the school to be something that tips along nicely, has a bit of input for me when I teach from time to time, but otherwise I'm just in the background making sure that all the plates keep spinning.

Angela Lyons (23:16.716)
Keep spinning, yeah. Keep going. Just make it sh wearing all those hats that you've got to wear to make it keep going.

Helen Welch (23:22.166)
I get very hot under all these hats. I have to change them around a bit.

Angela Lyons (23:27.566)
Joe Seeley, who was on episode fourteen of this podcast, she was involved with the black artisans and setting that up. D was you do you involved in that? And tell us

Helen Welch (23:38.894)
I wasn't, but I had a conversation and I was saying, oh, we don't really get enough black people into the workshop. How can we do it? And Joe said, oh, well, know, this, that, the other. And by the way, you might want to go on Angela's podcast. It's basically how this came about.

Angela Lyons (23:57.293)
interested. Okay. Okay.

Helen Welch (23:59.63)
Have a word, go and talk to her.

Angela Lyons (24:01.838)
nice. So I said okay. Yeah. nice, nice. Jo's lovely. She's she knows so many people. Yeah, I s I was at actually a networking event and I saw her in a call mart and I thought, we must go say hello to Joe. By the time you know the event was over, she was gone, I was like, Wow, she's just like everywhere and everyone was chatting to

Helen Welch (24:06.904)
What network in Brazil she is?

Helen Welch (24:21.166)
You know, she said to me, Helen, this school of yours is all well and good, but you need to get back to doing some of your own stuff. And she gave me one of those looks, which was, I'm not going to book any nonsense from you. You need to start doing your own process. was like, So I am honoring my promise to her and myself in trying to carve out some more space.

Angela Lyons (24:45.08)
Yes.

Helen Welch (24:50.516)
outside of running the school to be able to just have time for the making.

Angela Lyons (24:56.13)
That's important to you, isn't it? 'Cause I think that's where your happy place is, isn't it? That's where you place it. Yeah. It is.

Helen Welch (25:01.166)
That's one of my happy moments. I mean, look, I like sewing. I'm not good at it, but I like sewing. Do you know what it is? I like learning new things. I like feeling like, I can do that. Didn't know how it works, but now I know how it works and now I can do that. Now I can make that thing. Or can sew a pair of jeans or make a pair of boots. That kind of thing makes me

Angela Lyons (25:16.269)
Yeah.

Helen Welch (25:31.234)
Yeah? I'm to go.

Angela Lyons (25:32.472)
Yeah. Did you make a pair of boots?

Helen Welch (25:35.01)
I did make a pair of boots. I made two pairs of boots. I made one in on the course that I was doing. And then I made another pair as soon as the course finished so that I wouldn't forget how it was done. But that's what I meant by saying I'm just an inveterate tinkerer. So I just like having to go at things and learning new techniques.

Angela Lyons (25:54.55)
This is this maybe this podcast is your catalyst connection to doing your creative thing. Because Joe's told you to come on here and now from here you have to go and do something creative. You will and you will share it with me.

Helen Welch (26:03.856)
Okay, I will.

I will share it with you, I will.

Angela Lyons (26:09.994)
So if people wanted to join the the courses at the schools, so do they have to have certain knowledge or can they just join

Helen Welch (26:17.486)
No, we've deliberately pitched the majority of the courses at people who are either at early stages of having done some woodwork or totally total total beginners. Especially our joinery courses, they're there for people to come in and learn the foundations. So I always think that joinery is a bit like sewing, a bit like stitching is to sewing. So if you want to make a garment, then you've got to know how to use the right stitches, that is a sewing machine.

If you want to do traditional solid wood furniture, then you need to know how to make joints. So that's how we get people in. And that's one of our biggest sellers at the joinery courses is the foundation. And then gradually we introduce other techniques and more interesting things, things that they can add on that will make their work more interesting or take them in a slightly different direction. no, nobody needs to have anything special other than the means to pay to get through the

Angela Lyons (27:16.5)
And the enthusiasm.

Helen Welch (27:19.022)
And the enthusiasm. Well, most people just come anyway because they're self-motivated to turn up. Others turn up because they've been given it as a gift from their wives who want them out. Somebody turned up the other day and he said, well, I don't know why I'm here, but my wife told me that I should come because I do loads of woodwork at home anyway, but she said I should come to a course.

Angela Lyons (27:42.328)
That's kinda that's kinda sweet actually. And she's mostly thinking, I get a couple of hours by myself But she's like

Helen Welch (27:49.278)
exactly what she was thinking and also maybe he needs some help.

Angela Lyons (27:55.05)
Yeah, could be. It could be, yeah. Could be a subtle, but yeah.

Helen Welch (27:59.854)
Yeah, count of course. You're terrible.

Angela Lyons (28:02.638)
I hope he turns out all right.

Helen Welch (28:05.805)
I didn't stick around. Someone else's taste. Someone else's taste. I'm going home.

Angela Lyons (28:11.95)
That's that's the beauty of it. You've you've you've set it all up. So he's like, I've done my bit, I've done my intro, I'm gone.

Helen Welch (28:18.911)
Yeah, bye!

Angela Lyons (28:22.312)
funny. Is there anything that you'd like to ask me or is there anything that you want to add to the podcast?

Helen Welch (28:30.002)
And it's going to go back to my point of saying, where are the black people? Why are they not coming through the doors of my school? Seriously, there are a handful every year. A handful every year, and that's it. And I'm not sure, I think it's not the marketing. So what is it? And this has bothered me for a long time, but as we were saying earlier,

Angela Lyons (28:31.874)
Yeah, sure.

Helen Welch (28:57.774)
We've done courses where we're literally the only black people on it. Splinter Group aside, every other course that I've ever been on that's been craft based has only ever had me flying the flag for women and flying the flag for people of color. And where are we? What's happening?

Angela Lyons (29:16.686)
There's well, there's a few things. I think if for example I go to a lot of networking groups and a lot of conferences, if I don't see a lot of people like me there, I might not go to those again. But I think it's a visual thing. I think you've got to be in a place the first few people have got to step up first to say, look, there's a speaker or there's a person that I can look at but if I saw you doing a woodworking course, I'd like, my god, that's a black woman doing a woodworking course and like when you know, I looked into what you do and like your history and then

I thought I was like, wow, I've never seen a black woman in woodworking before. So then I think but yeah. But then I think there needs to be maybe a bit more of I suppose visibility in industries. and if there's not enough visibility, people think, if there's no one that looks like me that's there, I might not go and do that thing.

Helen Welch (30:06.744)
I mean, I think it is an industry.

Angela Lyons (30:08.83)
It's industry wise, it is, it is.

Helen Welch (30:11.598)
If this was a Carpentry and Joinery course, as opposed to Furniture Making course, I guarantee there'd be more black men on the course. There might be more black women, but there'd definitely be more black men on the course. That I do know. So I just wonder if some of it is about class, some of it is about, oh, know, furniture making, not going to make money at that, Carpentry and Joinery, yeah, furniture making, no, yeah. I don't know.

Angela Lyons (30:36.758)
I think it's also I think I don't know if it's a class thing, it might be, or it might be a time thing. if people I suppose it's also time and not investing in yourself. If people don't want to invest in themselves and they've just got to work and they've just got, you know, get food on the table. You all that uses usual thing, the bills. But I also think that I see people spending money on fun things. They'll go on holiday, they'll go on, you know I mean I like cycling, but I see people buying lots of expensive bikes and things like that. you know, I

Helen Welch (31:04.398)
So, yeah.

Angela Lyons (31:05.326)
Yeah, I mean I don't, but I'm just saying that I see other people do that and it's just like, you've got the money, so why would you not do something different? So maybe it's a I don't know, it's I think it might as I said, I think it might go down to visibility. I think if someone says, I'm going to do this, they might go and do it too. Do you see what I mean? It might be a bit of a train reaction thing. And also a lot of these industries, you never see anyone at the top. You know. And can imagine only a few years ago we saw black people, we didn't see black people at Adverts on TV.

And it was only after George Floyd's all these companies came out and thought, we better put some black people in our adverts. So we better, you know, make sure that even down to T V shows, I mean I love Bridgerton, but we know there weren't that many black people at that time. But do you see what I'm saying? It's just like I do. So it's a visibility thing, I I think.

Helen Welch (31:55.758)
Well I think you're right. I think you're right but still... on courses.

Angela Lyons (31:59.414)
Come on. Yeah. I mean he could do a little test, couldn't you? You could do a marketing test also. Maybe on your website show a few more black people.

Helen Welch (32:10.178)
Maybe what I'll do is I'll get rid of all of the white faces and I'll just put only black people, it'll be me and the two other black people who have come this year and I'll cover the whole of the website and see what happens.

Angela Lyons (32:21.794)
You never know. You ne I never know. It could be an experiment. It could be an experiment. And also when you know in you know 'cause you said you're doing your SEO and it sounds like you know you it's you've been working for you, but you know when you do when you've got the images and can do the alt tag. So name the image furniture making for black professionals or black students or black something something. So name that in the image that's also helping your SEO. So that could be something.

Helen Welch (32:51.712)
idea. All right, see this is why I came on the pod. Yeah. advice. You're Thank you for that.

Angela Lyons (32:55.99)
Advice. Thank you. And for me too, for learning new things. So thank you. So I always like to end on a personal question to my guests and I'd like to ask you, what would you tell your teenage self?

Helen Welch (33:13.486)
carry on, carry on walk straight out that door, walk out of that school door, go straight down Kentish town road and into Splinter Group and don't look back, which is what I

Angela Lyons (33:26.146)
Did. Perfect. Perfect badly as well.

Helen Welch (33:29.558)
I would also tell her, my 18 year old self, not be afraid of business. Get stuck into it early, understand how it's going to work for you and stop sort shying away from it and pretending that it's not what you're into because you only like making things. Learn how business will keep you making things.

Angela Lyons (33:47.382)
that's good. I love that. Yeah. Brilliant. Brilliant. Okay. So I've got a quick fire of five questions and that's gonna Okay, go. So CRISPR chocolates.

Beach or forest Book O'Kindle Reggae or Sal.

Helen Welch (33:59.96)
First.

Helen Welch (34:05.688)
Okay.

Helen Welch (34:09.101)
That's it.

Angela Lyons (34:09.87)
Yay. He was very serious. Okay, very good. Thank you very much.

Helen Welch (34:14.191)
These are the most serious questions you've asked me all day, I needed to give them their due.

Angela Lyons (34:19.603)
thank you so much. So tell people about where they can find you and tell them about the school and I'll obviously I'll leave all these links in the show notes but

Helen Welch (34:28.002)
Okay, so you can find us in Camden. are five minutes from the famous Camden Market. We are open most days, Mondays, Fridays and some weekends. You can find us at www.furnitureschool.co.uk.

Angela Lyons (34:44.66)
Lovely. And your Instagram?

Helen Welch (34:46.338)
The underscore London underscore furniture underscore school.

Angela Lyons (34:50.67)
Perfect. And again I'll leave those notes I'll leave those links in the show notes and yeah, people can connect with you there and follow you and come and do a course.

Helen Welch (34:58.934)
Yes, please come and do a course. At least come and say hello.

Angela Lyons (35:01.202)
A cover sail, yeah. Amazing, amazing. Well, thank you so much Helen. I've loved our conversation and It's been a pleasure. Got it going. We had a bit of a few tech tech issues at the beginning, but we got going and yeah, thank you so much and have a brilliant day.

Helen Welch (35:08.398)
Now that you've finally got it going.

Helen Welch (35:16.44)
Thank you too.

Angela Lyons (35:21.806)
Thanks for listening to Creatives Like Us. If this conversation resonated with you, share it with someone who needs to hear it today. That's how we build our communities and amplify our voices. You can find all the show notes and the links at linescreative.co.uk podcast and connect to me on LinkedIn and Instagram. I'd love to see you there. Also, make my day if you can leave a review or comment in your listening platform choice. And it's really easy in Spotify. Leave it in the comments. Until next time, keep creating and keep supporting creatives like us.

See you next time. Bye.