Raft of Bitches
A podcast about women supporting women. Like otters.
Raft of Bitches
Ashara Wills - Be curious, not furious
This episode touches on some difficult topics including challenges impacting the queer community, and youth suicide. If you or someone you know is struggling with difficult conversations or mental health, please check out the resources below.
Ashara Wills is the visionary force behind Let’s Queer The Air—a transformative business that fosters understanding and inclusion through authentic dialogue and engagement. A multicultural queer woman and a passionate advocate for environments where everyone can thrive, Ashara brings over a decade of experience in diversity, equity, and inclusion across multiple sectors.
Ashara's influence extends beyond boardrooms—she has also made waves in Australian Rules Football (AFL). As a driving force behind the West Coast Eagles' AFLW team and the club’s first registered female coach, she has broken barriers in a traditionally male-dominated arena, leaving an indelible mark on the sport and inspiring future generations.
Ashara would love to connect with businesses and organisations who are passionate about improving DEI within their workforce. If you or someone you know is looking for fun, engaging and compelling educational programs that go beyond just 'box ticking', check out Let's Queer the Air.
----- Resources ------
Lifeline Australia
Providing all Australians experiencing a personal crisis with access to 24-hour crisis support.
24/7 Crisis Support Line - 13 11 14
Website for resources or text chat - www.lifeline.org.au/
QLife
QLife provides anonymous LGBTIQ+ peer support and referral for people wanting to talk about sexuality, identity, gender, bodies, feelings or relationships.
National Helpline (3PM to midnight, every day) - 1800 184 527
Website for resources or text chat - https://qlife.org.au/
Hi Rafters, before this episode begins, we just want to share a content warning with you. This episode touches on some difficult topics, including challenges impacting the queer community and youth suicide. If any of that is triggering for you, catch us back up in the next episode. Otherwise, it's a really great chat and we hope you'll get a lot out of it. As usual, this episode contains adult language and concepts.
UNKNOWN:Music Thank you.
SPEAKER_00:For centuries we've been told that women are each other's worst enemies, but in reality we're more like otters than queen bees. Female otters, bitches if you will, join hands with each other to create rafts that stop them from drifting apart and losing each other while they're asleep. Thriving women have one thing in common, they have a tight-knit circle of other women who help them get there by providing information and support. Join us each episode as we shine a light on an amazing woman and give her a platform to share with us her story, her passion and the Raft of Bitches support supporting her. Hi everyone and welcome to Raft of Bitches. Today I'm here with my co-host Ricky Barnes who was once ranked number 46 in the world for BMX. That's right, never got any higher because it was a bit hard to compete in Australia. It's that kind of, you know, if you want to make it big you've really got to go to the US. And my co-host today is Jo who once went to the US for three weeks. She had washed every single piece of clothing and yet it still had some of her cat's fur on it. And today we are joined by Ashara Wills and Ashara is going to be talking to us a little bit about the intersectionality between women and the queer community. Ashara is a multicultural professional who has worked through the ups and downs, curves and corners of being queer from a young age. She has established a strong foundation of support through her family, friends and networks while also surrounding herself in the community services sector. Ashara has always been an advocate of the LGBTIQA plus community by engaging in meaningful conversations, passing on knowledge, consulting with the community and continually embracing differences. That's a mouthful. Welcome, Ashara.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you. And I apologize. The
SPEAKER_00:mouthful, the intro. Please. It's actually a little bit intimidating. Very impressive. All right. We've got an icebreaker. Let's get straight into it. Ashara, your icebreaker that you've chosen today is your favorite quote. Tell us your favorite
SPEAKER_01:quote? Favorite quote is feel the fear and do it anyway. Oh,
SPEAKER_00:I love it. Is it by a specific person?
SPEAKER_01:I actually don't know.
SPEAKER_00:That's one of those ones that goes around, isn't it? That you see everywhere, but you don't necessarily know who originated it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, 100%. And whoever the original quota is, fantastic work.
SPEAKER_00:Why does that mean so much to you? What have you really embraced about that?
SPEAKER_01:So when I was younger, I constantly had fear of communicating with people, meeting people, public speaking, selling, all of that sort of stuff. And then I came across the quote, which was feel the fear and do it anyway. So feeling the fear of networking with people, meeting people, going outside your comfort zone. So essentially, that was the quote that I read. And that was a game changer for me because it's we're always going to understand that it's going to be scary to meet people scary to you know be on the stage and public speak you're always going to have the fear of giving your authentic story or trying to persuade someone you're going into a high pressure situation you're always going to feel that fear that's not going to change but what's going to change is you not taking action So if that fear is going to stop you from saying hello to someone at a networking event that could potentially unlock financial doors, unlock contracting, unlock connections, then that is something that's going to hold you back. But if you go and say hello to someone, start a conversation, feel that nervousness, it could result in positive things. Same thing with, you know, sharing your story or public speaking. If you don't have a story that someone can connect with in the crowd that can go, oh my gosh, That's me. That's what I'm experiencing. I need to look into this a little bit more. And it could be game changing for them. The role models that I've had in my past have really helped me. And so I kind of want to do that for the rest of us. But we all get that feeling, right? Of like, you know, performers get it. You know, I reckon CEOs, anyone, you get that feeling.
SPEAKER_00:I love that. Can I ask, is it now easy for you? Or is it still feeling the fear? And you're doing it anyway.
SPEAKER_01:I would say it's a lot easier, but I still at some events and some public speaking engagements, some training sessions where I'm like, whoa. okay, you know, doing the heavy breathings at the start, doing the mindfulness experiences and exercises to really get me in the zone. But in terms of networking events, it's kind of like, it's not really a game. It's not the word that I'm looking for, but it's kind of like, I'm excited, you know?
SPEAKER_00:It's so funny you say that because I grew up doing a lot of performing arts. I've been dancing since I was four. My mum used to say to me, because I used to get a little bit of stage fright, but she used to always say to me, fear and excitement are the exact same thing. You've just got to flip it in your head and turn that fear into excitement. I feel exactly the same when I go on stage. I'm like, I'm not scared. I'm excited. My body just thinks they're the same thing. A
SPEAKER_01:hundred percent. And you're almost like, who can I meet tonight? Or like, who am I going to talk to? Who's going to share their story and is going to unlock things? Like, who am I going to connect with? And who am I going to build my networks with? And for me, that's exciting. So I would say, I think now my brain understands the differences, just like you mentioned, Jo. But yeah, again, there's still some events I was just at a LGBTQA plus executive fellowship where I'm sitting in a room full of heads of Google, heads of Microsoft, university deans, you know, you name it, people from, you know, heads of like Mervac and stuff. And I'm just kind of sitting there going, I feel like I'm a fish out of water here. But then slowly people just coming up to me and just saying, I'm so glad you're on the course that you have just such a different way of leadership. You know, it's so good. And to me, that was really validating. And it was the only WA person there as well. So just stuff like that where you kind of go, OK, that's a big moment. I'm in a big room of big people. How am I going to contribute? And yeah, that validation comes with it, which is pretty cool.
SPEAKER_00:That's fantastic. Can I ask you about your leadership style? What is your leadership style? Where did you get started in leadership?
SPEAKER_01:Oh,
SPEAKER_00:that's
SPEAKER_01:a really good question. I can't pinpoint exactly when it started. Probably when I was in primary school and I just had a lot to say. And I always thought I was right. You know, just that naivety of a little child being like, you know, I can change the world and... what I say is correct. And obviously that's not very often and that's okay to me. So I think leadership for me started into sport. So when I was younger, always wanting to be, you know, the sport captain or win any of the trophies and all that sort of stuff, because I wanted to bring my peers with me. And that's my, when you ask about my leadership style, that is a hundred percent. It's how do I bring the people around me with me on this journey and how do I uplift them? I don't think there's any wrong type of leadership. In fact, there's so many leadership styles out there and nobody can agree on what a leadership style is. If you take risks and you bring people along with you, I think to me that's the best sort of leadership. And so I think I found that through sport.
SPEAKER_00:Speaking of leadership, Ashara, I heard a rumour that you were the first female and first queer AFLW registered coach for the West Coast Eagles.
SPEAKER_01:So yes, rumour is true. I had a fantastic opportunity in 2017 where I was working, well not working, but was volunteering as one of the state AFL coaches for the women's squad at the time and was loving it. And I actually met Adam Selwood, who was working working in the community space within the West Coast Eagles. And, you know, was just sharing my story with him. And, you know, I was a big fan growing up, watching him play and also his brothers. But being a West Coast Eagles fan, him, told him that I was multicultural and all that sort of stuff. So an opportunity came across his desk, which was the AFL Alec Jadzolenko internship, where it was around bringing multicultural people into AFL coaching experiences to really catalyst their career and get them into coaching. So he said, would you like to do it? I said, yeah, absolutely. Would love to do it. And so met the general manager and some other heads of West Coast Eagles. And they said, I think it would be bloody brilliant if we had the first registered AFL coach and it be you. And I obviously said yes.
SPEAKER_00:Fantastic. Can I ask you to talk a bit more about what it has meant for you to be not just a woman, not just queer, but also multicultural in a place like Australia?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah, very good one. So I have uncles that don't talk to me just because, you know, you can't be queer, that's seen as being an abomination and something wrong with you and, you know, you can just change your mind, like this is a choice that you're making. So for me that has a compounding experience because there are things that I miss out on just due to my sexuality and for me it's not something I can turn off and on. When we talk about multiculturalism, there are very few safe places and spaces within society any sort of multicultural areas where you can be your authentic self, like being queer to the forefront, let alone being a woman. There's definitely a lot of cultural, I would say norms that you, you know, you can't talk to a man, a man has to talk to a man and a woman has to not say anything, you know, be seen, but not be heard sort of thing. So having that compounding queer experience, being a woman and then multiculturalism as a whole has been quite challenging at times, but also I've been able to change the dial a little bit. So it when talking to people, like I was part of the Ozspire Multicultural Leadership Program, and I sat around at a table and it was sort of just the elephant in the room. They were talking about pride, they were talking about people's experiences and how leaders really unlock that. And I just sort of said, you know, we're all sort of sitting around the table, but we're not bringing up something that's really kind of my passion, which is why do multicultural leaders abandon the LGBTQIA plus community? Why is it? We all say that, you know, this person does great, there's this person does great at that but as soon as they come out it's like you wash your hands of it and you're like I never want to see you again and for some people that's really hard like that's their support network right so they end up living a lie or what we call in our community masking where they become someone they're not in order to fit in and I just kind of want to advocate for that and say you know why is it because of norms that you've just been around you've never questioned it because the world has advanced so much you know we we've moved on And that was a really robust conversation. And it was so great because somebody else in the course, you know, actually said, actually, I think I need to step in. I was like, oh, no, here we go. We're going to get someone who's just going to take it off. But they actually said, I'm a queer X, Y and Z. And I haven't been that upfront and honest ever, but I'm going to bring it to this table because it's something that we need to talk about. And actually just said, I 100% agree with Ashara. I've never come out because of this, but I felt that this was a great place to actually come out and tell people my story because you all just assume that I'm straight or I'm heterosexual or whatever, but that's not my life. I'm seen as a multicultural leader. And it was just a beautiful conversation. So that's kind of like my experience. That intersectionality is not letting things go by, not saying anything. but actually bringing it up to the forefront and saying, hey, why? Like challenging people, but in a respectful way. It's not like you suck. It's why? And be curious about things.
SPEAKER_00:Fantastic. I know you spent some time volunteering with Pride WA and during that time you were involved with organising some events to kind of promote the intersectionality there. Can you tell us a little bit more about what happened in that space?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. So I was on the board of management, which is essentially just your board for a charity and or not for profit. I rocked up because they wanted to be able to communicate and network and be able to get the buy-in from young people. And at the time I was working very heavily with young people. I think I still considered myself as a young person, even though I was above 25. And they said, yeah, you'll be great. Let's do it. I just remember going, is this really what you want? Or should we try and open up the scope a little bit? And given that I'm a very visible female in a board of all men and cisgendered gay men, how do we change the dial on that? Or how do we change the dynamics? And one thing that I always saw with Pride WA is they do fantastic events and they do a lot of things for our community, but it was really based around one particular type of community, which was cisgender gay men. And I see where it's come from because you have to self-nominate to be able to be a part of the board. But I just thought if you're going to change something, you can't do it from the outside, you could do it from the inside. I mean, you can do a bit of both, but something that I could offer was definitely inside. And so I remember a couple of my first sessions at the board table was being really upfront and honest and just going, you know, this is all great, but who's our audience? And they'll just, oh, just queer people. But what does that mean? You know, just being really curious, like a phrase that I learned from a really good friend, Amber Anthony, if you haven't heard of her, she's great. You're a spicy, shout out. And she said, be curious, not furious. So it's always like, I'm feeling furious because to me, you're just like, they're just queer people. Do you even know what that means? Instead of getting angry about it, just going, yeah, yeah. But what does that mean? Can you let me know? And they started to rattle off a few things and it was okay but how about transgender people how about our suffix how about our asexual community how about our pansexual community you know really open it up and they go oh we didn't even realize they were part of our community no shame on them and no judgment because again you have to put up your hand to nominate for these sort of things but it just goes to show in our community we don't really have it all organized and all set up as well and so I did have to do a whole business case around an event for women I did a whole bunch of networking and consulting with the community so suffix to understand what is it they want. The things that highlighted actually was something that wasn't at a nightclub. A lot of our events are at nightclubs. It's loud. It's hard to talk to people. You can't really connect unless you're drinking. So a whole part of our community wouldn't be able to attend, like people who have sensory challenges and then also people who don't drink. And we landed on a Sunday session at a brewery. So people who want to have a drink because they might be socially a bit anxious, they could do that. But also it's a big place, like it's a nice big warehouse. So it's not too much overload with noise and music and still had some entertainment. So Hops With Her was created and the name stemmed from the venue. So the venue was Nowhere Man Brewing. So you get it like Nowhere Man because it's a sapphics event. And that caught on really well. And we had just diversity. We had young people. We had people from different cultures, even different religions. We had corporate people to your real, like just your whole blend. I was really, really proud of that because it brought a whole different dynamic to Pride WA. And I made sure I spoke to pretty much every single person. We had over 200 people in the venue and I wanted to understand their thoughts around Pride WA. Half of them didn't even know who it was. They had no idea what they did for our community, didn't understand a lot of those things. So I brought awareness to that side of things and also encouraged them to get involved. Others were a bit disgruntled around Pride WA. There's some history there. But after having a chat with them, they really got involved and I hope that I have left a bit of a legacy with Pride WA because now you look at it and it is diverse. You know, you do have representation from different genders and you do have events that have that inclusivity lens so things that are held like picnics or like play groups and you know families instead of it being a party and always be seen as a party it's like no this can be a family thing too and then now with the you know advocacy and bits and pieces that they're doing it's just really cool to see that I might have been a little part of that that change
SPEAKER_00:yeah great what do you think are some of the barriers for people wanting to enter that space so you know you said it was a board full of men what are the barriers I guess specific specifically for women, trans women, cis women, that stop them from getting more involved?
SPEAKER_01:I think it's the lack of representation. When we work with Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, so mob, as well as multicultural people, they always gravitate towards each other, right? Because there's that sense of commonality. You know, if I walked into a room full of people, I would gravitate to people who look like me, people who sound like me. I mean, you can spot the queers from a mile away, right? And you go and you gravitate towards them. Or somebody who had the same sort of colour of skin as me. And that's just what we do. Right. Because that's that's we feel comfortable. We feel like we can have things in common. So I think that's the biggest barrier is that lack of visibility. So people go, oh, that can never be me because that doesn't look like me. That doesn't sound like me. I have no way in. And the way that I actually got onto the board was through a connection that I was doing some work with. And he was like, you're phenomenal. I want you to come be a part of Pride WA board. And I was like, there's no way I could do that. That was literally my reaction was there's no way I could do that. And he goes, it absolutely is. You just have to nominate and you'll come on board. We'll set up meetings. We'll do this. We'll do that. So I think that's the biggest barrier. Whereas now, as soon as you start seeing people who are different and publicly different, you know, they're visible at events. They speak on behalf of things. They, you know, really go their way. You then have a sense of if they can do it, I can do it.
SPEAKER_00:Being the raft of bitches, we're talking a lot about women supporting women. Something that often gets overlooked is the importance of allies. You mentioned that the person that got you onto the board of Pride WA was a male person. Totally. So super important. I'm going to
SPEAKER_01:talk about two different things and they're going to merge together. So hang with me here. So I just want to talk about how we became connected. I was employed at the City of Stirling as a youth development officer. And one thing that was just coming out of all the statistics that I was looking at was the high levels of depression and suicide around LGBTQA plus young people. And particularly in Australia, in WA, hardly any stats, but there was a report that came out from the Youth Affairs Council during COVID, which highlighted LGBTQA plus people feeling the most vulnerable and the most isolated. So I pushed for a program for LGBTQA plus young people in the city of Stirling and finally kicked it off, got all the approvals, all that sort of stuff, but we needed a venue. Now they were very, you know, oh, let's have it in a community centre, let's have it in a library. And I was like, no, that's not going to work. You know, why are we having to hide our young people who are LGBTIQA plus? Like they should be able to go out into spaces and places and feel like they're a valued part of society. There was a cafe on Beaufort Street. It was right across the road from the Inglewood Library and the community centre there. I thought, beautiful. Bus stop just out the front, accessible to young people. If If they need to get permission for their parents, they can say, oh, it's just a local library community event. And then we would walk them across the road. It was the best setup. So I called the owner and I was like, hey, so this is what we're wanting to do. And I never mentioned LGBTIQA+. I just said young people program. And I thought in the back of my head, if I never say it now and we go all the way through this and it's, you know, someone who's quite homophobic or doesn't want to do it because it's going to bring heat to their business or whatever. And so I said, I'm not sure if this is going to be something you want to continue, but it is specifically for LGBTIQA+. young people. And the phone went silent and I was like, oh, this is it. I'm going to have to find another venue. And he said, do you know who I am? And I said, well, the last name Matera, me being a West Coast Eagles fan. And I thought, oh, yep. Well, Matera, there was a lot of Matera brothers that played in the West Coast Eagles and the like. And he said, yep, they're my brothers. And he said, my name's Jerry Matera and I'm the senior vice president of Pride WA. He's like, absolutely. You can have whatever you want, whatever you want to do. Let's run with it. I had to like kind of compose myself a little bit. It was a perfect storm, right? You know, it's just the venue was great. The community centre was great. We had this whole system we called that spilled a tea, you know, because RuPaul and like how do we get young people into it? Over six months period without having a fortnightly session, we had over 400 young people rock up. So that's how we got connected. We started that together. by working with each other, by me being my authentic self, him being his authentic self as well, we were able to create something really great. And then through that other opportunities arisen. So remember I was going back to feel the fear and do it anyway, phone call, feeling the fear, but I did it anyway. And it just unlocked that. And he sat me down. He's like, we need you at Pride WA. Would you like to do it? Is it something that you want to be a part of? I said, yes, absolutely. Let's make it happen. But again, it takes a bit of bravery on his side of things because for him, he's got a whole board that sound like him. They're all cisgendered gay men. And he's going to bring someone in who's completely different. He's taken a chance on me. So I think that allies take a risk and we don't really see that. We just go, well, that's what they should do, right? Like, you know, diversity, inclusion, equity. You should have that lens. But when we actually look at it, you're taking a risk. So yeah, that's how I basically got involved with Pride WA and then eventually took his spot when he left and I became senior vice president, which is like, I think now they call it vice chair and was that for two years. So it was pretty cool.
SPEAKER_00:Amazing. Any advice for someone who wants to be a good ally?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Fear the fear and do it anyway. I keep coming back to it, but honestly, it's you're going to get leaps and bounds from taking that risk and being an ally and being someone who wants to support somebody. So I would say feel the fear and do it anyway, because if you don't do something, then you're just going to be assumed as not being an ally. We saw it with the marriage equality plebiscite where the people who were quite silent about it I mean, me, myself, I just assumed everybody was against it, right? But we knew that the overwhelming majority who were silent about it were actually supportive. But it was such a bad thing to go through because you just assumed that no one wearing like a rainbow badge, I know it sounds ridiculous, but how it was, that you just assumed we're going to vote no.
SPEAKER_00:Can I ask you, flip side on that, what does it look like to be a bad ally? Are there things that people should not do?
SPEAKER_01:Ah, yes. The one that's doing it for themselves. So what I often see is genuine allyship where someone wants to really help and then you've got allyship masked as this is going to help me and benefit me and once I've done what I need to do with that person or that community or that group, see you later. You know, it's got me to my next promotion or it's got me talking to this person that I really wanted to speak to. And only through that connection, I was able to get there. That's bad allyship.
SPEAKER_00:I think in the queer community, there's also an aspect of a lot of allies, but only for the bits that they feel comfortable with. And being, as you said, intersectional, especially in the queer community where there's a lot of people who are marginalized is super important. So acknowledging that you don't know everything and your experience of Being queer might not cross over with everyone else's experiences.
SPEAKER_01:Totally. And we refer to that as lateral violence. I know that a lot of minority groups do use that term, but in particularly the LGBTIQA plus community, because we have diverse gender and diverse sexualities within the same community. And we also have intersex too, which isn't quite diverse gender, isn't quite diverse sexuality, but it is a community within intersex. And yeah, we've got, you know, some terrible behaviour. I like to hope that it's getting better, but it used to be very, you know, transphobic from within. And people sort of saying, you know, why should we allow trans women to compete in sport? Because they were bad at sport when they were, you know, AMAB, so assigned male at birth. So now they're wanting to affirm their gender so they can get a step up. And it's just ludicrous to me. We also have a lot of work to do internally. But I know that there's a lot of minority groups have a lot of work to do internally. So we're not siloed in that effect. And I think that we need to talk about that a little bit more. You know, there's not one multicultural community that align with everything. You always have leaders that are clashing with members. You always have leaders that are clashing with each other. Even look at our family nucleus. You're always going to have differences of opinions because we're all diverse. So it's really important to acknowledge that.
SPEAKER_00:Do you think things are getting better? Have you seen a change over the years?
SPEAKER_01:Look, to be honest, before the referendum, I did see a very clear way forward and I felt like, you know, oh, wow, this is it. This is what we call in sport, right? A game changing moment. And then another one happened when the no vote, unfortunately, resulted. And then I just felt like you had all those conservatives that were quite hushed, actually felt that sense of power shift, you know, that power dynamic of now come out and being like, why are we doing diversity and equity inclusion? It actually has no results for us. Why are we celebrating pride? Why are we doing this? Why are we doing that. And I think that there's definitely been a slide back. So I'm just waiting for that moment where the dial changes back. But my experience personally, majority of people want to do the right thing. A majority of people are allies. A majority of people are smart and see the benefits of being diverse. But it's just that sometimes that fear stops them. And I think that turns into they don't care when actually they do. And that's why, again, the quote, you know, feel the fear and do it anyway. If you get someone's pronouns wrong, that's okay. Just correct yourself, move on. Don't make it about yourself because that interaction is so much better than you just going quiet about it or avoiding that person or avoiding those situations where it could just be a really beautiful connection. Be like, oh yeah, sorry, I meant such and such.
SPEAKER_00:That's a good segue, Ashara, into telling us a little bit about what you do with Queer the Air. So do you want to just give us the nutshell version of what Queer the Air does?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so Let's Queer the Air is a business of mine, an organisation. Essentially, we run training and awareness around LGBTQIA plus topics, as well as really fun things like drag bingo and quiz nights where people absorb information without knowing that they're learning something. And they do it in a fun way where they can connect, even though they might not want to learn about that information, but because it's fun and social, they'll get involved.
SPEAKER_00:The stealth approach. The stealth approach.
SPEAKER_01:And we also work on diversity, equity, inclusion as a whole. So we've got a really great way of doing frameworks around that. So we see, you know, RAPs, we see disability access inclusion plans, we see a whole bunch of frameworks, etc. What we do is we bring all that together into a diversity, equity, inclusion framework for organisations with implementation plans. So everything's just in one little neat document and that's because intersectionality is a huge thing for us. So even though we're called Let's Queer the Air, we do a holistic approach to services.
SPEAKER_00:Awesome. If you wanted to give some advice to organisations on how they can become more queer-friendly and more welcoming for people from all walks of life what's like the simplest number one place that people could start do you think what would be the number one piece of advice for someone who had no experience in this and maybe needed to try and overcome a toxic culture
SPEAKER_01:good question I think there's no right or wrong way of going about it because again you're dealing with people A couple of things would be be curious. So if you know about something like I have no idea about being a mum, right, or having a kid. But the first thing I do is jump on a Google and Google and get that baseline understanding. Then when I've got a little bit of knowledge and a little bit of language around it, then I might feel comfortable enough to ask someone who maybe is at work or a family friend or someone who is a family member and just really try and get that experience. The second thing would be not everybody is an open book. So go to those places and spaces who are. Go towards that energy. So someone like myself, open book. You can ask me any questions. It takes a lot for me to get upset and to get offended. So go to those places and spaces. They're all online. They're all over TikTok. talk all over Instagram. So go to those places first and just be curious and just say those sort of things like, hey, I really want to get more active in this space. I want to become more inclusive. I just have nowhere to start. You know, here's my questions. Totally cool if you don't want to answer them. Where can I go for information? And just knowing that if somebody snaps at you or doesn't want to do that or doesn't reply to your message or whatever, it's not a you thing. It's maybe you've been the 15th person that day and they just want to have a bit of a break and then they'll get back to you or they might just not want to talk about it in that moment. And that's okay. It's just how the cookie crumbles. So go towards those people who are active in this space.
SPEAKER_00:But don't let that be the end of your journey if someone says no to you.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yes. Very good. Yes.
SPEAKER_00:We were talking a little bit before we started recording about your mum and your grandma who have been strong influences in your life, I guess. Do you have a best piece of advice that they have ever given you?
SPEAKER_01:Don't let being a woman stop you. You know, I think that's why I spoke about it because given the topic of this podcast, it's just fantastic. And I just role modeling off my, we call in my language, Amachi being my grandma and my mum. It's just, they just never let being a woman dictate what they can and can't do. So my Amachi and my Tata, my granddad, they both were meant to be in arranged marriages, but they married out of love. And it was so taboo at the time, you know, like you can't do that. Your family is the one who arranges who you get married to in our Indian culture. They rejected the notion of arranged marriage. They had my mum and seven other kids. My mum, you know, migrated from Malaysia, brown skin and wanted to sell things. So it was one of the first female real estate agents in Perth and they gave her reception jobs. And I remember just as the way that she talks about it is she went to the principal's office and, you know, removed everything from his desk and just said you know put me on the main floor I'm not a receptionist like stop treating me like somebody I that I can't do things you know because I'm a woman treat me as like another guy who's out on the floor who can sell so she did that whereas I think some of her other female counterparts would have been like okay well this is all I can do this is all they see in me and then you start hearing that narrative as well Mum ended up becoming one of the first female top sales people in Perth. Changed the game in Perth for women who are real estate agents. Just completely annihilated it. Did so well that she brought my dad into real estate. It's just, yeah, just game changing moments. But coming back to my Amachi, she was never dictated by my Tata at all. She was never like, you're the head of the family and I'm the wife. It was equal. I'm going to do this. You're going to do this. We're going to work together. When they would cook, you know, my granddad would be like the little chopping up of the onion guy and my muchie would just chuck it all into the frying pan and they would do it collaboratively. So I could always see and always absorb good role modelling. And I think that's the biggest thing they've taught me. My tata actually taught me how to love women. and the right ways of loving women and how to do that. And so did my dad. So yeah, really, really big role models in my life.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, that's fantastic. So we always like to ask people when they're on the podcast, Ashara, who is in your raft? Do you want to give them a shout out?
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely. So around my family. So my dad, my mum, external family as well. So being uncles, aunties, those who are past. So my machi, my tata. And then my beautiful partner.
SPEAKER_00:I'm sorry, your beautiful partner who recently was awarded Mixed Bellesque. WA.
SPEAKER_01:2024. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So very stoked. It's probably why my voice is a bit husky. But yeah, just beautiful people who want to be a part of the journey you're on. When we talk about support network, it's again, feeling the fear and doing it anyway, because you might come across someone that has the same energy as you or is going to unlock doors for you, or it's just going to be like a great friend and a great pal, you know? And I think sometimes those people within your rafts are underestimated. But they're the ones that you go to when things stuff up, when you have NTB or, you know, you don't get that grant or you don't get that contract and you go, what did I do wrong? And then they're the ones that have a bevy with you and say, you as a person are great. And that gets you back on track. So I would say that family, friends and the people you haven't met yet.
SPEAKER_00:I love that. The people in my raft are the people I haven't met yet. So good. So on that note. Is there anyone that you need in your raft? We usually ask people who come on, what is it they need? Is there anyone else they need in their raft? Is there anything that our raft of listeners could do for you?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, very great question. I think... Just going back to what I mentioned prior, which is be curious and not furious. So if that is someone's talking to you about, hey, we want to like give back to the community, but we want to do it for this demographic, maybe throwing in a different suggestion and going, hey, maybe could we change focus for this year? Could we do an LGBTI specific event? Or can we use that budget for training in diversity and inclusion? Or in November, we have our Pride Fest here. And the reason we have it November is not because it is great warm weather is because in 1989, there was a peaceful protest that happened at Parliament House. There was about 300 LGBTQI plus people and their allies. And because at the time, MPs here were debating if homosexuality laws were to be abolished. For people who don't know, in WA, we had homosexuality laws, which were in place and didn't get abolished until 1989. So you could face up to 14 years imprisonment for being homosexual and found out to be homosexual. So they did this peaceful protest and basically a few months after that, the laws changed here in WA. Those laws were abolished. When that happened, it was in November. And that's why we celebrate our Pride Fest in November. I
SPEAKER_00:didn't know that. Yeah, I didn't. Fun fact. Also, that's terrifying that that was after I was born that it stopped being illegal. I know. 39,
SPEAKER_01:no, sorry, 35 years. We haven't even gone through a whole generation. And so that's, you know, another thing that people go, why do we still have these celebrations? Why are we still celebrating? Why do we have the rainbow flags and everything? It's like, Because there's still people on this planet that think being homosexual is illegal because that's what they lived through.
SPEAKER_00:And there are definitely still plenty of places on this planet where it is still illegal, which is fairly scary. We're lucky.
SPEAKER_01:100%. So going back to the topic of Pride Fest, so get involved with the events there, you know, volunteer with Pride WA, try and get into the community because we're just like everyday people. I heard a phrase when I was at the LGBTIQA plus executive fellowship where at the end we're going around in circles like, you know, what did you learn? What did you find out about it? The main director of the course, he just started to get all emotional and he said, before this course, I actually thought that LGBTIQA plus people were a bit odd because I'm a heterosexual guy, you know, cisgender heterosexual guy. And I just always thought they were a bit odd. But now I know that they're just everyday people. And that was just, that shook me, right? Because it took guts for him to say that in front of a room full of LGBTIQA plus people. But it's not siloed for that thought. Like that is actually a shared experience. So yeah, just being curious about that and getting involved with groups. If you haven't met an LGBTIQA plus person, try, you know, get involved. We're pretty fun. Should be fairly easy, hopefully.
SPEAKER_00:Great parties.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. Great parties. And also you don't need to be LGBTIQA plus to come along to all of these events, by the way, in Pridefest. And if they are specific, they'll say on the event. So just
SPEAKER_00:get involved. I think another thing to point out is that a lot of events that are run around this time aren't sex focused. They're not things that are based around sex because it's not about sex. It's about the community and it's about people. And quite often the community is sexualized by people who aren't part of it. So I think that's a really important aspect of being an ally is an understanding that not everything about being queer is about sex
SPEAKER_01:yes and that is because of the hypersexualized format of being lgbtqa plus right it's because it's a different it's an odd it's a other it's something so you've got to put a label on it for you to feel more comfortable with it that's why people go lgbtqa plus people are promiscuous they're sexual all these sort of things but it's not the case i mean yeah we definitely do have that but so do heterosexual communities there is a whole underground community of people who go to sex parties and in those sort of places and spaces. And I love that for them. But it's not just siloed to LGBTQI plus communities. And yes, you're 100% correct. There's
SPEAKER_00:plenty of kinky straight people out there.
SPEAKER_01:100%, yeah. I
SPEAKER_00:am so sad that we have to wrap it up because this has been the best fun. It's been great having you on the podcast, Ashara. So unfortunately, once again, we're utterly out of time. That's right. But if you have a story about how you have contributed a unique perspective to a conversation, particularly one that touches on topics impacting the queer community, we would love to hear from you. And where can people reach us? We are on Instagram at Raft Podcast, or you can email hello at raftpodcast.com. And for previous episodes or to find out more, don't forget to check out our website, raftpodcast.com. Thanks for listening, Rafters. Catch you next time. If it was a choice to date men, none of us would pick it. No one would choose that. It's so true. I love that so much. I feel like we can still sneak that in there somehow.