Raft of Bitches
A podcast about women supporting women. Like otters.
Raft of Bitches
Narelle Henry - We're held hostage by the blokeiness of the world
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Narelle Henry is a Noongar woman, educator, former athlete and coach, and General Manager of Ember Connect - a platform connecting and elevating First Nations women.
For over two decades, Narelle has been focused on creating opportunities and building confidence for women and young people, and helping them see what’s possible, whether in classrooms, on courts, or in community spaces.
You can support Narelle's mission by checking out the Ember Connect Wildfire Series podcast, or sign up to the Ember Connect Live platform here.
For centuries we've been told that women are each other's worst enemies, but in reality, we're more like otters than queen bees. Female otters, bitches, if you will, join hands with each other to create rafts that stop them from drifting apart and losing each other while they're asleep. Thriving women have one thing in common. They have a tight-knit circle of other women who helped them get there by providing information and support. Join us each episode as we shine a light on an amazing woman and give her a platform to share with us her story, her passion, and the raft of bitches supporting her. Welcome to another episode of the Raft of Bitches podcast. I am joined today by my co-host Ricky, and fun fact about Ricky, she once worked as a cake decorator. How long for?
SPEAKER_00Ah, that's a great question. It would have been three or four years, I think. Were you good at it? I I was actually, I was very good at it, but it was like I don't want anyone to run away with the wrong idea. It was a cheesecake shop cake decoration, which is still like I know how to pipe rosettes. I I'm really good at cutting a cake into very level, you know, freehand cutting with a knife into very level sections when you're doing like a tiered cake because I am not like I I think I could make an excellent leaning tower of Pizza Cake. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so you know, it was fun though. And I'm here with my co-host Joe, and a fun fact about Joe is that she once auditioned for So You Think You Can Dance.
SPEAKER_01I did. Uh so we made it through the first couple of rounds. It was myself with my my ballroom partner at the time. So we did great in the salsa, we did great in the ballroom, and then we crashed and burned pretty badly in the hip-hop. Um I like I'm I'm yeah, good at ballet, but hip-hop's not really my jam. Like, I just I'm too proper for that, I think.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's it's a very uh different amount of motion of the body, I would say. Yeah. I'm just big enough, really, for hip-hop. So we are joined today by Norelle Henry. She is a no-a-woman educator, former athlete and coach, and general manager of Ember Connect, a platform connecting and elevating First Nations women. For over two decades, she's focused on creating opportunities and building confidence, mentoring women and young people, and helping them see what's possible, whether in classrooms, on courts, or in community spaces. Welcome, Norell.
SPEAKER_03Thanks. Thanks for having me. I'm sitting over here trying not to laugh really loudly at your um conversation. Um, how's your hip hop, Norell? Uh, well, it was okay back when my basketball knees actually moved still short. Yeah, and that was after a few drinks. So um now with two girls almost 50, I'm pretty sure that the boundaries don't go there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. Those days are behind you now. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01So we're gonna get started straight away with an icebreaker, Norrell. And you gave us a couple of options, but we're gonna go with if you could meet anybody from any timeline, who would it be?
SPEAKER_03Well, there's uh there's probably two parts to this. I think as I go through and I'm trying to find family, uh, I think probably I'd really love to meet some of my great-grandparents and and ask them one, what their name is, what their names are. Um, you know, if the ones that we haven't uh really understood where they've come from yet, to really find that information out for my my parents. And then the geeky side of me, the ADD side of me, if I could meet somebody from a different time would be JFK, because I am so obsessed with the fact that we've been robbed of a leader in the world that who was probably so extraordinary that uh yeah, I've I've gone through FBI files, like everything.
SPEAKER_01Have you read all of the like the recently released JFK files?
SPEAKER_03I haven't read the recently released ones. I'm trying to find a between 1 a.m. and 3 a.m. space where I'll be um my mind will be clear to absorb all of it. But yeah, but I just the kind of guy that he sounded like, I just am thinking, gosh, what would the world be like if he actually if if he wasn't assassinated? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So today we're gonna be talking about your overall journey and the people you've met along the way, which I love because it's kind of like a history of all the rafts you've had or all of the, you know, the people who have touched your lives. Is there anyone who you'd like to name drop for us now who's been a a big influence on you who meeting has changed your life for the better?
SPEAKER_03Gosh, there's been there's been so many. My mum would kill me if I didn't mention that my mum is just always there constantly with coffee and Anzac cookies, like I said. Like I really appreciate the opportunity to reflect on what who who's on my raft. It's been, I think, such a beautiful process. And when I look around me, I I look at uh all of these arms linked tightly together, keeping me afloat, regardless of what things look like uh outside, whether things are calm, whether there's a storm brewing, uh, whether we're in a storm. And uh I I just honestly think, I mean, what what what what more could I ever ask for than to have relationships and connections like this? So yeah, so shout out to Mum again, just in case you're uh listening.
SPEAKER_01Mum's always listening. Yeah, yeah. It's great.
SPEAKER_03Yeah also critique too. So my partner, she's she's an artist. I actually played college basketball with her sister uh Desiree, who's also moved to Australia and married an Aboriginal woman.
SPEAKER_00Ah, wow.
SPEAKER_03Amazing. Yeah. After the the amount of time that I've known Carice, I think I will never admit to this because sometimes I just have to have the upper hand, but uh now that upper hand's about to disappear.
SPEAKER_01So probably does not listen to this podcast though now.
SPEAKER_03Oh, she'll definitely listen, but she's probably the most consistent, rock solid person in my life, and probably the person that I admire the most, but appreciate the least. Yeah. So um extraordinary mother and somebody who I really admire for a number of reasons. One that she's got this this incredible ability to to just be in a space and a time with people and to just sit there. And and if um for anyone else who's ADD who might feel like, okay, this has been great, but let's what are we doing now? Like, where are we going? Um really what's the next thing? But she just takes the time. She does it so beautifully and so well, and I see the effect that it has on the person on the other side, but she's always done it with me and now does it with our girls. I've got um two girls, Lennox J and uh Presley Valentine. I mean, they push the raft to the limits in some days, uh, but they're hilarious, they're frustrating, they're brilliant, and honestly um as as funny and um I guess as infuriating as they can be, they can also uh be beautifully caring and nurturing uh to those around them, which I just adore. A beautiful mix of gorgeous, lovely human beings with absolute fireball ferociousness, female energy and power. And uh Carisse just manages to navigate all of the craziness, uh which includes me too, me, the crazy, chaotic, um, exciting, let's do this now. And uh yeah, she just managed just to navigate all that chaos, but uh be in that zone of be in that space and time where it really can connect, you feel connected. And I think the other thing that I really love about her too is that she's brave. And I've always wished that I was as brave as she was. Yeah, she's she's put herself out there a number of times because she's uh done some mural projects around the place and her courage I think is probably the thing that I admire the most too. Yeah. And I think Des and Tatum, my um sister-in-laws, uh, Nicole and Hales, my dear friends, I think uh collectively they're the sort of people who don't just turn up when things are calm, and uh they're the ones who usually tighten their grip when seas get rough, and um they generally are always there. So I'm also lucky to have so many um beautiful lifelong friends, the ones who never judge, they never complain, we haven't kept in touch. Instead, we kind of all just jump straight back in as if time hasn't passed. I mean, and I think that kind of love weaves through the raft like a bit of a rope, all of our uh journeys coming together and and being quite tight. I think in terms of my sense of belonging and identity and and culture, I also have to shout out to my cousins and sisters who are uh on this raft. Jugankin and Yera, they they bring me uh healing and we learn about culture together in the most authentic way. So I think when things are crazy and and life might feel like it's falling apart, they are always there and uh we are always trying to understand how we can tap into our culture and our ancestors and honour them and subsequently bring some, I guess, healing to our lives in the way that Aboriginal people have always done. So that's a really beautiful part of my experience too. I have my mother, as I've mentioned, and my dad. Uh my brother helps me out a lot uh now with two girls. He's the best uncle ever, even though he used to steal my basketball bodysuits and try to wear them all the time and embarrass him uh with that one. I think through the journey of whether it's gone, you know, moving to the US and studying over there and um and then playing basketball has probably been the biggest, the biggest experience where I've I've had the chance to meet a lot of women. So I would have to say people like Jenny Bedford and Cheryl Kickert Tucker. I think also my dear friend and former teammate, Mary Ann D, she was a presence on the basketball court and she's very much a presence in my day-to-day. So she's wildly funny every single day she messages me. And sometimes it's nonsense and sometimes it's a little bit of wisdom, but always with love, and it just is so nice. She makes me laugh and it makes me feel seen and reminds me that you know I've got a big sister that's just a phone call away. My gorgeous, amazing lifetime mentor, Jenny Bedford, someone I've always looked up to, you know, since I was young and um and will continue to do so. Uh another person on my raft is my dear friend Michelle, I think one of the most humble souls I've ever known. And I think she quietly bolsters the people around her in ways that she doesn't even realize. She's always thinking about other people. Those steady, low-key acts of kindness that really hold everything into place. She's she's the quiet strength that I think everyone feels. And if I think about the men on my in my life as well, I think I should honour one of the few men on my raft. His name's Warren, he works with us at Ember Connect. He's steady, he's unwavering. Um, he shows up. Yeah, he's extraordinary. He's probably the best, one of the best mentors I've had because I feel like he sees exactly who I am. And I I feel safe enough to be quite vulnerable where with where I'm at. But anytime you get to that point where you feel safe to air your vulnerabilities and your lessons, that yeah, you're in a you're in a good space and you've got the right person.
SPEAKER_02So definitely.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So I think I mean I've got I've had I've had so many coaches and and mentors that I just don't know that I could name them all. But I think at some point in time there have been people that have come in for a long period of time or a very short uh period of time where it might have been an insignificant moment for them. But it's meant the world to me and it's changed my life. Then they're probably too numerous to to mention, but yeah, I could talk about Kathy, Kathy Freeman and and those type uh Yes.
SPEAKER_00Please please tell us your Kathy Freeman story, which apparently we've heard is a banger.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and it makes me sound like a real stalker, but um, and also my mum sounds like a stalker as well. But this is what I love about my mum. So I grew up, you know, playing basketball, and um I thought by the age of seven, I mean, I was already bouncing the basketball up and down the street because I was gonna play on the Olympic team. And uh my mum was their, you know, huge cheerleader as I was growing up and Kathy started to emerge as well. I think I might have been 11, 12, or 13, and then she was in everything. So uh whether it's me watching the news and I see Kathy running, or it could be that I'm cutting out newspaper clippings of her meets. I probably was the biggest fan on the face of the planet at that point. Kathy came to a meet in Perth. Mum somehow managed to stalk her and find and get Kathy to give um her phone number and um home address. So usually it's like, you know, manager at Kathy Freeman, but it's real mum, mum came home with an address and a phone number from Melbourne, and I was like, how did and there was no way I was gonna call. There's no way because that's how old were you at the time? Oh, it's got I've got to like have been 11 or 12 or 13, maybe.
SPEAKER_01And your mum just was like, hey, I get Kathy Freeman's phone number and home address for you.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and she said, Here, Kathy said, write to her or give her. And I'm like, Well, I'm not gonna ring her, but I'm gonna say because I was super shy back then. But I started to write a letter and I had to rewrite it like seven times because it wasn't my neatest handwriting every time. So my neatest handwriting had to enclose some photos. Here's me eating breakfast, here's me thinking about eating breakfast, that kind of stuff.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and then important stuff that I'm sure Kathy was doing.
SPEAKER_03One of the important things that like she was got it, she got a real good snapshot of who I was, that's for sure. Um, yeah, and sent that off and you know, licked that stamp, stuck it on, put it away, and and then I kind of was like, you know what? I'm really like how I'm pumped. I sent that off and that was it. That was it for the experience. I just wanted to tell her how much I loved her and how much she was great, and then I told her a bit about myself and what I wanted to do. And, you know, a while later I I got a letter back, you know, nice, thick, stationary. I'm like, man, it feels heavy. Open it up and it's from Kathy Freeman. I almost fell off my chair. And, you know, I read this handwritten letter and it was just like, this is the best day of my life. It's handwritten. A handwritten letter, yeah, signed uh Catherine Freeman. And um I was like, well, I have to write another letter. We're pen pals now. Like we're totally pen pals, let's get this done. And uh so I think she probably got a letter the next day from me. Uh yeah, and I got another one. And there was some sort of things that she had said in there that really even framed how I thought about myself, you know, like, you know, you've you've done like you write beautifully, lovely, neat handwriting, and you expressed yourself really well. And and so that gave me the confidence to be a better student, you know, those types of things. Yeah, but there was just lots of little bits of encouragement in those early sort of parts. And then I think a little while later we found out that she was coming to the old Perry Lake Stadium in Perth to do a meet. Mum came to pick me up from a basketball practice. I got out of there early and said, you know, I'm out. It's a cultural thing, got to go see the most amazing person in the world. So, and you know, my heart sank because there was nobody in the stadium, like no cars. We just were the you know, car, and I'm like, man, we're black fella time again, like coming in very last second, mum being mum who doesn't give up, the most persistent woman on the planet. She's like, let's just go in and have it and have a look. So we walked all the way up to the very top and then down those concrete bleachers, and and then I kind of hung out over the fence and those rusty little fences that you see, you know, you kind of look over. And there was nobody around, but I I heard somebody coming out of a change room um out onto the track, and I almost just screamed, but also ran off because I was shy. It was Kathy, she she was the only person left in the stadium, and she was just coming out and she was going to run out on the track, and I my mouth had fallen onto the fence, and mum's looking with anticipation. I thought mum probably would have been the first one over the fence, but uh yeah, Kathy looked over and she's kind of looking at me, staring at her, staring at her like really weirdly, probably. And she said my name and she's like, Norell. And I was like, Oh my god. I knew we were friends. I knew we were friends, and then I'm like, how does she know? And I'm like, Oh, that's right. I sent her a thousand photos. Of course, she knows who I am. And I again, like I when I got a letter from her, I thought that was the best day of my life, but no, this was the best day of my life. And she came over and she was tiny. That was the first thing I thought. I'm like, oh she's so little, she's so fast. So fast. And she's like, come on, come and have a run around the track with me. And I was like, Oh, oh my god. Uh yeah. So I jumped over with my giant basketball boots on and my really skinny ankles in those boots. And I flopped around, loafed around next to her on the track, and I didn't breathe once, I don't reckon. Like 400 meters. It was just, I was nervous and shaking, didn't breathe, didn't want to be seen to be breathing too hard because I wanted to appear.
SPEAKER_00Impress her. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And she just was talking to me the whole time. And then she's like, Come on, let's go. We've got to stretch down now. And I sat there and just was staring at the grass and barely look at her, but she was chatting away and yeah. And then she said, Come on, let's go come with me. We're gonna, I'm gonna take you out for dinner. And I'm like, Oh my god. It's a very cool. And how many other relatives can I invite? And yeah, so uh turns out she's like, Look, I'll I'll go home and have a shower. I'll meet you at uh, I think it was called Observation City, uh, the Radisson probably, yeah. So um, you know, I got dressed up in my most favorite basketball shoes and basketball top and went out there and sat with her and didn't say a word, I don't think. Mum did all the talking, my brother was there, he didn't say a word either. It was incredible. And I thought, you know, for somebody, and she had won a Commonwealth medal by then. And she's she's moving on to you know Olympic level. And I'm looking at her and I just am astounded that I am nobody. And she stopped and made me feel like the most important person in the world. And for an hour of my life running around that track, I had thought to myself, she did not have to do that. And that speaks so much about her, and I loved her even more because of the time she took. And you you just don't get athletes that do that. Uh, but I think with Aboriginal athletes, the sense of responsibility to when when you see a younger indigenous kid, the time that you take is really gonna uh be a significant factor in in their life. But those times that I had met Kathy and and the times that she spent a minute with me, I think they really formed the type of person that I wanted to be, and the type of athlete I wanted to be, the type of teacher that I wanted to be. And I wanted to be exactly like that, where I'd always have time, where I'd always keep a promise to a student or an athlete, and make them feel just a if I could make somebody else feel just a little bit of how she made me feel, then I would feel really proud of that. So yeah, extraordinary, extraordinary experience. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Oh my god, I love that so much. Yeah. You know, and they say like, don't meet your heroes, but apparently if they're Kathy Freeman, absolutely do meet them. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I think I was manifesting it. Like pretty hard, core. And I'm like, I'm gonna meet her. If I don't meet her now, I'm gonna meet her at the Olympics. So that's what I was telling myself in terms of the belief. But it's like even like I met uh Nova Paris when the Australian hockey team used to train over at um in Curtin. Oh yeah. And uh at the West Australian Institute of Sport, we would train there for National League. And I was a younger National League player, you know, just kind of riding the bench doing my time. And and uh Nova came out and she had her Olympic jersey that we just won gold in. And uh she's she gave it to me, like a training jersey, and she signed it. And she'd never met me before. But the fact that she saw me, she saw me in my basketball gear going into the Institute of Sport, and she again five minutes and she said, Hey Bub, how you going? And I was like, Oh my god, oh my god, my bob is talking to me. And when she gave me the jersey, I like I took it home and it was again like had it, you know, up on my up on my bed. It was it was incredible. But I think with uh with women like that, particularly from our community, because there are not many of us, it's like it's um the responsibility that that you take on to make sure that you're not the last person that walks that track um is huge. So I I appreciated um that now both women have no idea who I am. So if I said to Kathy, Kathy, do you remember me and Norell? She'll be like, oh God, she'll like she's either gonna say, That's the that's the one I was telling you about. She's been stalking me for 30 years.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, literally 30 years.
SPEAKER_03Or she's gonna go, Oh hi, we've never met, yeah.
SPEAKER_01But um Well, hopefully someone who knows Kathy will tell her about this podcast and then she can listen to it and she'll realize what a huge impact she's had on your life. Or she'll know who to get the restraining order against. One of the things those two things will happen.
SPEAKER_03And if I tasked my mum with the with with getting this podcast to her, I'm sure that she'll probably get it done.
SPEAKER_00Yes, great. Yes. Get your mum to onto that. It sounds like she's got past form on this.
SPEAKER_03So yeah, she might walk away with a restraining order, but that'll that'll it'll be worth it. It's totally worth it.
SPEAKER_01So I think something that I love about this story is that you didn't just go, oh, I had this like super great experience as a kid, and it was really important to me. And so I went on and I became a super successful athlete, and that's the story over. You went, hey, everyone should have these experiences. So I'm gonna build a raft. You know, I'm gonna build something for other people to bring them along on the journey. So tell us a little bit more about Ember Connect.
SPEAKER_03Well, Ember Connect, I mean, if you're talking about when we are talking about the raft of others, and I it I mean, it resonates really heavily with me with Ember Connect because that is what Ember Connect is in a in a digital way. So post-COVID, we've realized that there are people that, you know, honestly, we need to, in terms of joining the digital space, it's quite healthy for us to make sure that aside from physically catching up with uh with people and and having connections, but being able to reach out outside of our communities and outside of our states and workplaces to be able to find people that we can learn from. So I guess it's putting the who you know in front of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander women. And then we've opened it up for allies as well. We've got over a thousand allies that have joined our family. And and so really it's just about women connecting and elevating each other. Because I I think, and sometimes I think it should be a tagline, and I'm not sure if I can I've dropped a couple of swear words already. It's sorry.
SPEAKER_01It's literally called raft of bitches, so you can swear as much as you want.
SPEAKER_03Well, I think that women just have enough shit to deal with if we don't take care of each other. And I know that I'm preaching to the converted, but quite simply, if there is anything at all that women need at any point in their life, that sense that there is always going to be somebody there whenever they need them, whether it's when they've just left school and the support system might not necessarily be readily available, whether it's leaving a relationship, or whether it's just trying to connect in and learn from somebody who knows something about something that we don't, where you know, we connect in mentor a little bit of flash mentoring, quick connection for information, or just to be a really crazy cheerleader. Because we love to talk about how amazing women are and and what they're doing, and because I I just don't think that we're uh we're not on the same starting block, I think, in terms of gender. Um yeah, but that's that's really what we are. It's a social capital network for women who don't generally have it. And that really is the make or break factor for any human being is who have you got around you that's going to help you get by, help you get ahead, and then elevate into opportunity.
SPEAKER_01100%. The reason that there are so many male CEOs is because there are so many male CEOs. Correct.
SPEAKER_00Uh so they all went to school together.
SPEAKER_01Correct. And they're the people that are gonna give you the leg up. So the more we can promote women in our network, the you know, the better it's gonna be for all of us. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Do you have a do you have a favorite story of a really great outcome that you've had through Ember Connect?
SPEAKER_03We've had quite a few. And like I'm a phys ed teacher, so working like creating a digital uh platform is like yeah, right up my alley. So I've had to learn a lot about the layers of the technology and to understand all of the, I guess, the evaluation behind things and how people are connecting without without intruding on those connections either. But there there have been a couple, it's sometimes we've had um conversations, and and if you've ever worked out in community and worked with young people, sometimes there's an opportunity that might exist that if you've got one connection that can help you just even complete your resume or write your cover letter, that the sense of confidence that you're walking into that job application with or that interview with is a total game changer. And so we've had a couple of young people reach out to one of our uh corporate people who are quite high up in the Indigenous engagement space, and they've just like gone, can you help me with my resume? And they're just young people, and they've just I don't think they've realized who they've contacted, but I'm like, well, they weren't right to the top, didn't they? Like, and the sense that any girl can, any 17, 18-year-old girl can find that person and and she's on the other end, and that sense of generosity is there, and it's and it's really small, but it's the their first job. And they've just been helped by somebody on the other side of the country, and it means the difference between putting the application in and not putting it in, and walking in feeling a little bit shaky, or being like, you know what, I had your boss take a look at this. Um that's that's really huge as well. We're always obsessing, you know, if we're linking people up in the mentor space, it won't necessarily always be by industry or by the skills that you're looking for. Sometimes it's like, look, I'm just coming out of a relationship that I really struggled with. It could be, you know, a a DV relationship, a family violence relationship. It could be, you know, I'm neurodiverse and and and you might have some specific needs around that. So we really obsess over the details because we know that it of of what the significance could be for that person because we've all felt it in some way, shape, or form, that type of relationship that has changed our entire perspective, I can say. So yeah, we we spend a ton of time. There's been some really great relationships that have that have come out of it and connections and people that have elevated their businesses through a connection that we might make. We're not the ones with all the expertise, but we're like, how do we create this really big, welcome and inclusive house? We keep the lights on, we make sure it's warm, we make sure that everybody knows that to be in here, there's a reciprocity and a generosity and a love that you demonstrate. And if you don't know how to do it, here it here is how we do it. And and then people start to make their own connections. And once they get a little bit more confident to do that, yeah, I think we'll hear quite a few more stories.
SPEAKER_00And do you find it works sort of both ways, as in someone who comes in looking for someone to maybe mentor them, then gets the confidence to be like, okay, well now I can help someone else.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely. Yeah. I think with First Nations women, we kind of there's a sense of responsibility that we would do that anyway. And so a lot of people are just simply doing that. I know that that's happened with me with a lot of basketball, a few older basketball players, like Jenny Bedford. I I used to watch her when I was 10 and you know, show up. And then she said, but when you showed up at the game, I I played hard, I played a lot better. Like it it took me up another level. And and I was like, that that makes me feel so good. Because I I wouldn't ordinarily get that as a as a young person. And she's in my life, I'm 48, and she's uh living up in Broome, she's the deputy CEO of the Kimberley Aboriginal Medical Group, and I will email her. She's the first person after my partner that I call to tell her good news. She's always there with warmth and love and positivity, and she's always pointing me to the horizon. And sometimes when I've lost sight of it, um she she really brings me back around and and helps me instill some faith in myself.
SPEAKER_00Oh, lovely.
SPEAKER_03And um yeah, she's extraordinary. So I I call her my um one of my big sisters, and yeah, she's one of the warmest, cuddliest, positive human beings ever. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I love that.
SPEAKER_03I mean, I'm just thinking about I was thinking about all of this. It was it's so it's been so nice to reflect on um the really who the really significant people have been and who they are in my life that have really connected and elevated me. And uh like I feel really emotional uh about the things that they've done and and many of them probably would not know the again, I the significance of what they've done for me. And um I hope to one day tell them. So I'll get to them uh one by one, hopefully. And again, it's it's it can be such an easy, it can be such an easy thing. And if we could just take time to connect uh with other with other women who we might not know what they're going through or how they're feeling and what the impact of a conversation might be at that point in time. And it's lovely. We've got the most generous, diverse group of women on Ember Connect that I'm really, really proud of. They're part of the family now, so they're none of them can escape, even our allies.
SPEAKER_00You're in. Tough luck. It's like the mafia when you're in, you're in. Yeah. Yeah. I would like to ask you, this is a two-part question. So the first one is what is the best advice you've ever received? And the second is what advice do you like to give to people? Is there a particular thing that is your go-to? Or maybe even if you can't think of that, maybe even what is the best advice you would give to your younger self?
SPEAKER_03Or you wish you'd received I think I think the best advice I I would have been given was uh my coach, Guy Malloy. And um but one of the things he said to me when I was 18 years old, and I would it wouldn't resonate with me for another 10 years. He said, Norell, don't be in such a rush to make a decision. And I was like, oh what's he talking about? Like, ain't nobody got time to wait. Like, I've got to get, you know, things done. But it wasn't until I got to college later on down the track that I realized I had the tendency to jump in and into things really hard and fast that that I was I looked at that. And that then also told me that he knew me and could see what my default setting was, I guess. He left me with that, uh, with those words before he moved on to another coaching gig. And again, I'm 48 and I still remember the exact time and space that he told me those words. And every time I'm going to make a decision, I hear those words.
SPEAKER_01So isn't it funny how sometimes you receive advice like that and it doesn't, it just really doesn't resonate with you at the time, but then eventually, oh yeah, that person was way smarter than I gave them credit for at the time.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And I think too, when you're, you know, like I think I maybe have mentioned that I haven't always been the type of person that I'm that I can be proud of. I think one of the really important things that those people taught me that along the way, whether they've been teammates or coaches, is how to be a good person, how to be a good teammate. And sport is the ultimate snapshot of what life life will throw at you. And if you muck it up at a game or if you muck it up at practice, or you fail the character test, or you don't respond in a way that you know you should have, then you get to do it again. And it's quite forgiving in that way. But it's it's quite extraordinary that basketball and teammates and coaches, they taught me that here's how you take care of teammates, here's the responsibility that you have as a rookie, and then into a leadership space. Yeah, it's really quite extraordinary. It's like a micro learning space that just hits you in the face really hard and fast, and you have to figure out how to recover to be at training the next day after you might get in trouble for something. Yeah, so it's uh I can't say enough for for sport. And then I think the advice that I give to the advice that I give to my girls every day is show the joy that you feel. I think the way that I grew up, I I became quite wound up tight with not really showing, I guess, uh joy or uh love or uh intensity. And so I always kind of kept all of those feelings uh bound up quite closely. And so then because of that insecurity of not being able to show how I felt or how intensely I wanted something, and a lot of this has to do with basketball too, uh, I subsequently became and responded in a way that wouldn't necessarily be who I would have liked to have been. So that insecurity led me to do things that I wish that I hadn't done in terms of how I treated people and teammates as a young person. And so now I I kind of look at it and I think, you know, there's a real, I mean, we're in a space in the world at the moment, uh, and that it's particular particularly frightening for young people, but particularly frightening for women especially. And I look at politics globally and how one government might affect the balance and what's happening with people around the world, and again, with women. And so one thing I tell my daughters is that it doesn't matter what things look like or how you're feeling, the way that you move through the world is with kindness and care. And the only important thing is that you love and you learn, and you learn to love and you love to learn. They are the two most important things that will make the world go round in the way that it should be. I think that women uh generally we have that healing spirit and connection within us. And the more that we can demonstrate it to our daughters and nieces and and grandkids when they come, they need to know that they've got a responsibility to take care of each other. They need to know that they're not just a part of their little school or team or community or country. They need to know that they're a part of a global community of women who need each other. They need each other's, we need each other's voices and we need each other to be there for us because there will be no there will be nobody else that will be there. And we're finding that out right now. I guess we're, you know, held hostage by the blokiness of the world that has been driving me crazy, very crazy, for the last couple of years, and and the ego that just becomes an astronomical issue. So when I talk to younger people, it's like care for others. And whatever you do, lead from the heart. And if you've got something inside you that stops you from doing that, then you have to look at it. And no matter how confronting it is, you've got to sort it out. I feel very passionately about that. I think that's just love and learning. Learning and love. Cheesy but easy. I actually have never said that before. I've never said that before and it accidentally came out. I love it. I quite like it. Cheesy and easy.
SPEAKER_01Cheesy but easy. Love it. I'm gonna read out this one. It's nothing about us without us. I love that. Do you want to tell us a little bit more about like what that means to you and and how that how Ember Connect kind of allows that to come to life?
SPEAKER_03I think that we adopted that uh from I believe a campaign around, it could have been um, I think it was around inclusivity, uh, but but it wasn't uh necessarily an Aboriginal Torres Strait Islander thing. So we didn't coin that phrase at all. But it makes sense for all people is that you just you want to be able to make decisions about your own life and about where you where you're gonna go. So we always talk about having a life of choice and not chance. And we really women need to have a seat at the table. And I guess, you know, when I talk about the blokiness of the world, we've got lots of men who are trying to make decisions about uh what we can and can't do, whether it's with our bodies, whether it's around violence against women, any of those things. And it's it's like, thank you for making those decisions for us, but we're good to go, like we can actually make those decisions based on our very close experience with actually being a woman. And so nothing about us without us that I'm sure that resonates with so many people who uh have felt like someone's making choices about my life and and they actually don't know what I go through. Uh, if you think about the referendum as well, which uh was extremely painful for um a lot of us, that the sense that everybody got to vote about that, and then how that really gave us a snapshot at that point in time of of how people felt about us and what the consciousness was in terms of Aboriginal people for Australia, and it was hard to yeah, it was hard to deal with, but that that type of thing kind of comes to mind. So so in terms of Ember, it's like, how do we use our voice? I heard somewhere and I don't know what it was, I was listening possibly to a podcast, but somebody said, power doesn't exist until you use it. And I was like, of course. I mean, I like the other quote in terms of Alice Walker said, the most common way people give up their power is by thinking they don't have any. And I think if I look at our communities over time, over the last 250 years, is that we've constantly been told that we don't have ownership or determination over where we're going. And there have been really uh incredible people, like my grandmothers, for instance, uh like my aunties, my mother, and other family members and community members that have carried the the light and the fight to to try to make change. And yeah, I think it's it's just it's really important to that we understand that we have a voice. If we can use that voice collectively, then it will be far more effective. It'll be far louder and we're likely to get far more people to listen. And I'm going now out of just the First Nations space, but women globally, because I just really am dying to see a shift and a change. And sometimes I stay awake at night thinking, how can Ember Connect uh reach out across? oceans to make sure that now we can learn from other First Nations women and women across the world that are struggling. How do we how can we make sure that uh women who are in war-torn countries or you know know that there are people um that are caring for them and fighting for them because they just might not know. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So you mentioned before Narilla that you've recently opened Ember Connect up to allies. What else is next for Ember Connect? Where and what's next for you in general?
SPEAKER_03For me, I am currently thinking how do I spread Ember Connect out or extend the network so that we can all connect with each other? Because the digital space we can uh we can see that obviously it connects lots and lots of people across oceans and how do we do that and learn from each other and how do we how do we connect with other people's experiences so that we can become voices of change for them. And and they're not just having to go through it by themselves. And I'm sure that a number of things could probably come to mind with what's happening around the world. But I feel very fortunate where my girls are growing up. Like my heart hurts for what other young kids are going through and um other women are going through.
SPEAKER_00Okay. And so to to take Ember Connect to the next level what do you need and who do you need in your raft? Who's missing from your raft that could help you get there and how could our raft of bitches, our listeners, help you get there?
SPEAKER_03I think at any point whether you're a First Nations um woman or you're an ally I think amplifying conversations about challenges that women are having is really really important. I think connecting in with those conversations then helps create advocates for change. You know, whether it's in education whether you've got a small patch in your space where you can understand the challenges that that Aboriginal people have faced, whether it's in education or employment and that's your that's your jam, that's your that's your sphere of influence, then the the more that you can connect in with those conversations that we're having on Ember and amplify them into your spaces is is exceptionally important for us. It's how we get you know system change and it's what then we hope will be a diverse more diverse education system, more diverse workforce. All of those things and again if if we can reflect on those things around First Nations women I think it helps all people in terms of inclusion and belonging and feeling valued for your contribution and feeling seen and heard. And we'd love to see you on the platform to contribute also. Don't feel like it's it's a space that you can't speak up and chat because I do get tired of the sound of my own voice. Despite what you may have heard today. But you know that learning comes from diversity of experiences and and we unequivocally feel really, really grateful to have a diversity of of amazing women on the platform.
SPEAKER_01So where can people connect with you? Where can they find you? You've also got a podcast I believe how can people hear from you more?
SPEAKER_03Well we do have a podcast it's called the Wildfire series. I'm trying to find a new voice because again I'm sick of my voice I'm trying to find somebody else to take over and have conversations so that I can just listen and to find us where on emberconnect.com.au or you can go straight to emberconnectlive.com dot emberconnect on um on Facebook and Instagram I'm too old for TikTok still have to recruit somebody who can do TikTok videos um yeah and my hip hop isn't that good anymore too to be able to connect in audience so yeah we need to find a 19 year old that can swing that one for us.
SPEAKER_01Unfortunately once again we are utterly out of time.
SPEAKER_00That's right but if you have a story of how your extended raft has helped you along your journey or actually a story about stalking Kathy Freeman we would love to hear from you. And where can people reach us? We're on Instagram at raftpodcast or you can email hello at raffpodcast dot com.
SPEAKER_01And for previous episodes or to find out more don't forget to check out our website raftpodcast.com. Thanks for listening rafters catch you next time I know we had a lengthy conversation about this earlier but can you remember what the fun facts were we were gonna talk about? No.
SPEAKER_00I was gonna ask you