{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Cat Templeton","startTime":2.58,"endTime":7.03,"body":"Welcome to eMerge Unchained, the podcast of eMerge Literary Magazine,"},{"speaker":"Cat Templeton","startTime":7.03,"endTime":8.48,"body":"where literature kicks off its"},{"speaker":"Cat Templeton","startTime":8.48,"endTime":12.45,"body":"shoes and wanders barefoot through the wild terrain of human imagination."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":13.24,"endTime":14.81,"body":"This is eMerge Unchained."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":18.17,"endTime":24.39,"body":"Hi, I'm Aubrey Green, and this week I sat down with Dorothy Freeman."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":25.34,"endTime":30.31,"body":"Dorothy is well-traveled, well-seasoned, some might say rode hard,"},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":30.66,"endTime":32.18,"body":"definitely not put up wet."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":32.93,"endTime":38.65,"body":"With seven decades of stories and 40 years of flash prose waiting to be published,"},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":39.08,"endTime":41.06,"body":"Dorothy is just getting started."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":42.25,"endTime":47.59,"body":"Sit back, relax, and enjoy this conversation with Dorothy Freeman."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":47.59,"endTime":52.76,"body":"Well, thank you so much, Dorothy, for taking a few minutes out of your day to"},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":52.76,"endTime":54.11,"body":"sit down and chat with us."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":54.34,"endTime":56.56,"body":"No, I'm very excited to talk to you."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":57.4,"endTime":61.72,"body":"The first thing I'd like to know, because I noticed that we don't have a whole"},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":61.72,"endTime":65.05,"body":"lot in our bio for you, at least not online."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":65.41,"endTime":67.87,"body":"Have you not been published very many places yet?"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":68.45,"endTime":74.34,"body":"You're pretty much, except for like a local community publication and college"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":74.34,"endTime":79.39,"body":"publication, Emergence Magazine was my first publication."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":79.77,"endTime":81.0,"body":"Really? Well..."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":81.0,"endTime":82.19,"body":"It was very very"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":82.19,"endTime":82.83,"body":"exciting."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":83.47,"endTime":87.86,"body":"I can imagine. I remember my first publication. I mean, even even the ones I"},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":87.86,"endTime":89.81,"body":"get now, it's still really exciting."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":89.81,"endTime":93.84,"body":"Yeah, for sure. But it encouraged me to maybe do more."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":94.55,"endTime":98.99,"body":"Well, you absolutely should. Why why have you not published more yet?"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":100.46,"endTime":101.44,"body":"Good question."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":103.51,"endTime":110.74,"body":"I don't have a good answer. I'm not sure. You know, I think my own journey as a writer,"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":111.75,"endTime":116.59,"body":"like I've received lots of encouragement, but like believing in yourself,"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":117.08,"endTime":121.88,"body":"believing in myself, that people actually might want to publish this."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":122.27,"endTime":128.79,"body":"And of course I did, you know, I sent it into a couple of things I sent some things in to"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":129.41,"endTime":134.24,"body":"where they had money involved - You know, prize money? And didn't win them. And"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":134.24,"endTime":137.6,"body":"so I was like, oh, well, I must not be very good. You know, I kind of"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":139.07,"endTime":145.64,"body":"I can easily convince myself that nobody wants to listen to what I have to say"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":145.64,"endTime":150.98,"body":"because it's so personal. And I'm writing a personal journey..."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":152.73,"endTime":154.07,"body":"That's how I write."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":154.07,"endTime":155.73,"body":"Yeah, no, that makes sense."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":156.05,"endTime":160.0,"body":"It's almost like my journal, you know? It's almost like you're reading my journal."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":160.67,"endTime":166.74,"body":"And people who know me are intrigued, but that doesn't mean that a stranger would be."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":168.31,"endTime":175.06,"body":"Is that difficult, putting so much personal stuff to paper?"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":175.06,"endTime":175.29,"body":"No."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":176.1,"endTime":180.93,"body":"No, and that is why I feel like in a lot of ways I'm different from other people"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":180.93,"endTime":183.71,"body":"because I learned to write like that."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":184.53,"endTime":189.1,"body":"My first, you know, real writing experience was with Natalie Goldberg,"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":189.68,"endTime":193.71,"body":"who wrote Wild Mind Writing, or Writing Down the Bones."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":194.49,"endTime":199.95,"body":"And I learned in a workshop to just whatever's in your mind, write it down."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":201.34,"endTime":208.37,"body":"And that was like my most creative, I mean, it just flows out of my pen."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":208.49,"endTime":211.43,"body":"It's like whatever I'm thinking, that's what I'm writing."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":213.66,"endTime":218.51,"body":"And part of that is the fear that, you know, people will read it in your family,"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":218.51,"endTime":221.33,"body":"your friends and family, you know, and what are they going to think?"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":221.33,"endTime":222.67,"body":"And, oh, you can't say that."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":223.38,"endTime":229.94,"body":"And she sort of taught our workshop group to don't tell yourself that you can't"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":229.94,"endTime":231.69,"body":"say that. That's what you need to say."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":232.6,"endTime":238.48,"body":"And I'd always sort of plunge to that when I write, Just like,"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":239.15,"endTime":243.83,"body":"just let it flow out of the end of my pen and worry about it later."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":245.5,"endTime":251.85,"body":"And maybe that's part of the reason why I don't, you know, like publishing."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":251.85,"endTime":256.75,"body":"I want, I actually want to publish a finished piece of work, like a whole book."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":257.47,"endTime":263.34,"body":"So these little short snatches, I haven't quite figured out how to put them all together yet."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":264.68,"endTime":270.0,"body":"Hmm. Yeah, there are several different things and different ways you could treat those."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":270.75,"endTime":273.54,"body":"So I can see why that might require some thought."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":274.21,"endTime":277.77,"body":"And those are my favorite writers. I was thinking, you asked that,"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":277.77,"endTime":282.53,"body":"like, who might, some of them, I might want to talk about my favorite writers."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":282.92,"endTime":288.1,"body":"And I realized, like, oh, okay, so Cheryl Strayed with her, the book Wild,"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":289.77,"endTime":296.25,"body":"and Nick Flynn, Another Bullshit Night in Shit City."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":296.58,"endTime":303.38,"body":"Was that the name of it? Yeah.. Just... here's my life you know here's here's what's"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":303.38,"endTime":309.76,"body":"happening or here's what's happened and those are my favorite writers so..."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":311.12,"endTime":313.26,"body":"So it sounds like you you really enjoy memoir work."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":313.26,"endTime":319.29,"body":"Oh it's all memoir yeah yeah it really is yeah"},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":320.54,"endTime":325.78,"body":"So I'm assuming then based on what you said that you actually have quite a bit"},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":325.78,"endTime":328.47,"body":"of writing just kind of tucked away somewhere?"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":328.93,"endTime":329.48,"body":"Tons."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":332.8,"endTime":340.36,"body":"Too numerous to mention. And it feels sometimes like an almost impossible task."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":340.86,"endTime":345.93,"body":"Another writer that I read early on, Anne Lamott, you know."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":346.25,"endTime":348.04,"body":"Oh, love Anne Lamott."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":348.04,"endTime":352.59,"body":"Yeah, everybody knows her. And when I read her Bird by Bird,"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":352.93,"endTime":355.06,"body":"I realized, like, she went through the same thing."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":355.67,"endTime":358.71,"body":"It's like, how do you put all this together?"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":360.39,"endTime":364.11,"body":"Yeah, it's a challenge. And I keep writing."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":364.91,"endTime":368.91,"body":"It's not like I'm going back to get all this stuff and figure it out,"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":368.91,"endTime":370.94,"body":"you know. I put it all together."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":371.26,"endTime":378.9,"body":"I actually went to graduate school. I graduated with my master's in creative writing in 2023."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":379.86,"endTime":382.91,"body":"So very recently, I was in grad school."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":383.34,"endTime":383.81,"body":"Fun."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":384.57,"endTime":390.88,"body":"I had to have like 180 pages for my thesis to graduate. And that was daunting."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":391.83,"endTime":395.15,"body":"So I was forced to put a bunch of stuff together."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":395.87,"endTime":400.65,"body":"When I had to defend my thesis, I got quite a bit of criticism."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":401.7,"endTime":406.21,"body":"They, like, loved the first, you know, part of my story. And then later on,"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":406.21,"endTime":411.5,"body":"I got into a story about it's all about this, you know, love affair that's not working out..."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":411.85,"endTime":414.88,"body":"And they got somehow tired of it."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":418.33,"endTime":424.96,"body":"A nd and it kind of set me back you know to not to not get endorsement"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":426.64,"endTime":432.89,"body":"for the whole thing. I was just like: oh see I was right. I'm really you know I'm..."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":433.25,"endTime":436.14,"body":"I'm wowing the kids at school but I'm not wowing you know."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":437.04,"endTime":438.71,"body":"The professors who know. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":438.71,"endTime":439.59,"body":"The experts..."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":441.61,"endTime":443.35,"body":"Yeah writing is is um"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":444.71,"endTime":452.21,"body":"It's kind of like art. I spent a lot of time: I worked for an art museum in my career. I did PR."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":452.88,"endTime":457.18,"body":"And art is subjective, you know?"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":458.01,"endTime":463.12,"body":"Not everybody likes the same art. That's just the truth. And I think that's true of writing."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":463.66,"endTime":466.08,"body":"We all have different tastes, right?"},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":466.45,"endTime":469.79,"body":"No, 100%. Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":470.15,"endTime":478.06,"body":"And so as a writer, you have to kind of figure out a way to believe in yourself to keep on going."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":479.99,"endTime":489.73,"body":"And a lot of my writing is just, it's a way of me explaining myself to myself."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":490.94,"endTime":499.25,"body":"Like what am I thinking? Why am I doing this? Where am I going with this? Yeah. That's"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":499.25,"endTime":502.63,"body":"what memoir work I mean for me that's how it feels."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":502.79,"endTime":507.88,"body":"No that makes a lot of sense I've spoken with a lot of people and we all we"},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":507.88,"endTime":511.21,"body":"all kind of agree that writing, whether it's poetry,"},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":512.15,"endTime":518.15,"body":"or personal essays or it seems like just about any form of writing, is always,"},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":518.71,"endTime":526.46,"body":"to some degree some form of self-exploration and trying to process ourselves and what we're feeling."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":526.83,"endTime":530.45,"body":"Yeah, exploration is a good word. It really is."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":532.25,"endTime":539.47,"body":"So I'm curious how difficult it's been for you to kind of work through,"},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":540.22,"endTime":545.87,"body":"work through criticism since, since obviously that defending your thesis took"},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":545.87,"endTime":547.93,"body":"a little bit of the air out of your sails."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":548.71,"endTime":553.32,"body":"Is that something that you're still working on or are you really in a position"},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":553.32,"endTime":557.47,"body":"now where you really hear very much constructive criticism?"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":557.7,"endTime":564.27,"body":"Well, fortunately, I have formed a little group of four women."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":565.0,"endTime":568.83,"body":"We all were part of the same University of Kentucky writing group."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":569.83,"endTime":575.39,"body":"So we had a lot of the same professors, and they're all creative nonfiction."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":576.94,"endTime":578.81,"body":"And sharing each other's writing."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":578.95,"endTime":583.08,"body":"And hearing other people who I admire, you know, who I like their writing and"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":583.08,"endTime":588.68,"body":"hearing what they're doing, and then having them give me good feedback on my"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":588.68,"endTime":592.79,"body":"writing has been real helpful and has sort of started me again."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":593.49,"endTime":597.72,"body":"And as I mentioned, I went to Valencia this summer, to Spain,"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":598.25,"endTime":604.17,"body":"and I just started like a little travel log, you know, and everything was so"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":604.17,"endTime":610.19,"body":"new and exciting that every day I had like something, you know, to write about."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":610.74,"endTime":614.82,"body":"And it was wonderful and I went back to"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":615.79,"endTime":625.42,"body":"pen and and paper which was how I learned to write and I found that it's the perfect speed for me"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":626.31,"endTime":630.67,"body":"like somehow it's a lot of work because then you have to get it into your computer"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":631.36,"endTime":637.85,"body":"but there was something so satisfying about writing longhand..."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":639.54,"endTime":645.85,"body":"That I, you know, I put together about 40 pages while I was there, which is a lot for me."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":647.02,"endTime":653.04,"body":"I'm kind of a one and a half page writer, which has also been a little bit of a problem."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":654.66,"endTime":661.44,"body":"I'm fast. I've always gotten that people both admire it and criticize it of"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":661.44,"endTime":665.35,"body":"like how quickly I tell a story, you know, so."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":666.24,"endTime":669.94,"body":"Ah, but if I'm not mistaken, you write a lot of flash fiction, don't you?"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":670.18,"endTime":673.95,"body":"Right, it's flash fiction. You know, and part of going to school is learning"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":673.95,"endTime":680.94,"body":"that term, that that actually is a genre that's, you know, acceptable."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":682.19,"endTime":686.18,"body":"Very much so. I'm a little surprised you've gotten so much pushback on it."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":689.17,"endTime":692.25,"body":"It's probably most of the pushback is in my head, you know."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":694.76,"endTime":704.67,"body":"So I'm assuming, based on your program of study, that you have written fiction and nonfiction."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":705.45,"endTime":708.36,"body":"Do you see much of a difference between those two?"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":708.65,"endTime":714.93,"body":"I actually am terrible at writing fiction. Really? And I had to take fiction classes."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":715.6,"endTime":721.19,"body":"And when I did, I would tell my teachers, I don't make stuff up. I don't have to."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":724.8,"endTime":731.18,"body":"I feel like my life sort of reads like fiction because, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":732.05,"endTime":735.69,"body":"you know, I've done a lot of different things. I've traveled."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":736.82,"endTime":741.18,"body":"Like, for instance, when I was in my 20s, I hitchhiked to Mexico."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":743.01,"endTime":743.87,"body":"Oh, good Lord."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":743.87,"endTime":748.6,"body":"Pregnant with a toddler. So, yes, I know. I saw your face."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":749.1,"endTime":752.75,"body":"So for me to make stuff up, I don't really need to. I can just tell you what"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":752.75,"endTime":756.26,"body":"I did, you know, and that's kinder."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":756.43,"endTime":759.31,"body":"And you lived to tell us about it."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":759.31,"endTime":764.82,"body":"Right. I was living in the Haight-Ashbury in the 70s, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":766.52,"endTime":772.58,"body":"in the late 60s and the 70s. So my life is, I was a back-to-the-lander."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":772.86,"endTime":775.02,"body":"You know, raising our own food in Kentucky."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":775.38,"endTime":779.48,"body":"So I've had all these varied experiences."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":781.0,"endTime":789.13,"body":"I've had five children, and they provided me with lots of, you know, stuff to write about."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":790.29,"endTime":794.86,"body":"So fiction for me was just, and maybe it's because it didn't appeal to me,"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":795.6,"endTime":799.76,"body":"but when I would try and make stuff up, it just sounded weird to me."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":803.54,"endTime":810.04,"body":"I admire other people who can do it, but it wasn't my strong,"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":810.04,"endTime":811.88,"body":"it wasn't my strength at all."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":812.9,"endTime":816.37,"body":"Well, it sounds like you don't read all that much fiction either, do you?"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":816.38,"endTime":818.24,"body":"Uh-uh, I don't."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":819.8,"endTime":821.06,"body":"So that makes sense."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":821.81,"endTime":828.56,"body":"Although I have read fiction, another one of my favorite writers is Annie Proulx."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":830.07,"endTime":837.46,"body":"I read The Shipping News and was just blown away. And she writes a story about"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":837.46,"endTime":841.49,"body":"a man, and she's very good at it."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":842.73,"endTime":849.43,"body":"I think what I loved about her writing and what grabbed me so hard was she"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":850.04,"endTime":855.4,"body":"didn't follow the rules as far as punctuation and sentence structure."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":856.19,"endTime":860.1,"body":"That was thrilling to me, that it was okay to do that."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":861.87,"endTime":866.14,"body":"And I do, you know, occasionally my stuff is not"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":868.28,"endTime":870.62,"body":"grammatically correct. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":871.52,"endTime":875.39,"body":"So, got a little bit of a rule breaker in you there."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":875.71,"endTime":880.72,"body":"Yes. Well, you know, you hitch hike to Mexico with your kids."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":880.72,"endTime":886.35,"body":"That's just an example of a rule breaker."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":888.85,"endTime":893.62,"body":"And I'm still breaking them. Have you tried your hand at poetry?"},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":893.62,"endTime":897.86,"body":"Because I know that that's a very common thing in poetry."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":898.4,"endTime":903.04,"body":"A little bit. I have, and I appreciate poetry."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":904.01,"endTime":912.36,"body":"I read poetry mostly for, you know, just sort of a way to calm myself, a way to relax and..."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":914.2,"endTime":919.85,"body":"You know, it's kind of like watching a sunset for me, is to read some poetry."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":921.34,"endTime":923.51,"body":"That's a really nice way of putting it, yeah."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":924.24,"endTime":928.47,"body":"And again, I feel like it's not my genre."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":928.8,"endTime":937.05,"body":"And it was interesting to me in the writing program, so many people did poetry."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":938.06,"endTime":942.97,"body":"And it almost feels like maybe it's less intimidating. You know you can hide"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":942.97,"endTime":947.18,"body":"a lot of stuff in poetry instead of revealing it. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":949.69,"endTime":954.16,"body":"I don't necessarily feel a need to hide. I don't know why I don't but I I don't"},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":956.02,"endTime":958.52,"body":"So what stories are you working on now?"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":959.13,"endTime":965.08,"body":"Well I'm still editing the piece I wrote this summer in Valencia and it's you"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":965.08,"endTime":971.2,"body":"know it'll be like 40 pages and I'm not sure it's sort of a strange length. Maybe"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":971.2,"endTime":974.03,"body":"I'll chop it up and, you know, try."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":974.76,"endTime":979.99,"body":"I am... another nice thing about being with this small group of women writers"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":979.99,"endTime":983.42,"body":"is they're getting published and they're"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":983.99,"endTime":990.12,"body":"giving me a lot of suggestions of where to send my stuff and how to get published."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":991.28,"endTime":995.73,"body":"Have you found that it's more challenging to find places to submit nonfiction"},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":995.73,"endTime":998.49,"body":"work than fiction or poetry?"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":999.35,"endTime":1001.97,"body":"Well, like I said, I haven't submitted much, so"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1004.54,"endTime":1008.86,"body":"it's all kind of back-burnered, and I do feel like at this age,"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1009.16,"endTime":1015.07,"body":"I need to get serious. If I'm going to get published, I better get on it."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":1018.31,"endTime":1023.79,"body":"I won't say anything about that. I do know a place, though, that their submissions"},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":1023.79,"endTime":1025.92,"body":"open in just a couple of weeks."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1026.06,"endTime":1030.92,"body":"Oh, well, please let me know. And I don't know how I found emergence,"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1030.92,"endTime":1034.86,"body":"whether you found me, you know, or I found you."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1035.41,"endTime":1039.99,"body":"But there was something about the name of your publication, Emergence."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1040.69,"endTime":1043.45,"body":"I thought, oh, I'm an emerging, you know, writer."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1044.17,"endTime":1049.67,"body":"So I'm going to send this in. And like I said, I had no expectations when I"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1049.67,"endTime":1052.96,"body":"sent it off, and it was a really old piece."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1053.34,"endTime":1058.25,"body":"I had just, with my little writing group, I had been searching for,"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1058.25,"endTime":1061.15,"body":"you know, things to submit."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1061.73,"endTime":1068.12,"body":"And when I found that piece, I had totally forgotten the incident and totally"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1068.12,"endTime":1069.74,"body":"forgotten that I'd written about it."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1070.29,"endTime":1073.38,"body":"But as I read it, I said, oh, this is good, you know?"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1074.08,"endTime":1076.98,"body":"And I read it to my group and they were like, oh, my God, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1077.17,"endTime":1080.45,"body":"you need to, you need to, you know, submit that to something."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1081.13,"endTime":1086.76,"body":"And I found your publication and it worked."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":1088.21,"endTime":1091.76,"body":"Yes, it did. We are very glad you found our publication."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1091.76,"endTime":1092.87,"body":"Thank you. Thank you."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":1093.23,"endTime":1097.93,"body":"Isn't it interesting how you can go back and look at a piece that you wrote"},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":1098.04,"endTime":1101.83,"body":"a while ago and kind of see it with a different perspective?"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1101.83,"endTime":1106.69,"body":"It's wonderful. It's wonderful. And I'm hoping, you know, like I said,"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1106.69,"endTime":1113.77,"body":"my thesis was for some reason so disappointing to me that I put it away and"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1113.77,"endTime":1115.66,"body":"I basically never wanted to see it again."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1116.59,"endTime":1125.09,"body":"And so now I feel like enough time has passed. I need to get that out again and look with new eyes."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1126.0,"endTime":1128.75,"body":"You know, it's my story. It's my memoir."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1130.58,"endTime":1133.28,"body":"And, uh, yeah."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":1135.05,"endTime":1140.3,"body":"So I heard that you might have a little bit of work for us that you would be"},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":1140.3,"endTime":1142.92,"body":"willing to read. Is that, is that true?"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1142.92,"endTime":1146.0,"body":"Sure. Sure. I pulled this out."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1147.12,"endTime":1152.92,"body":"I'll just start. I was practicing Spanish at the time, so I called this Domingo, which is Sunday."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1152.92,"endTime":1373.23,"body":"[Reading redacted from transcript - It's great go listen!]"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1458.0,"endTime":1458.45,"body":"The end."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":1460.33,"endTime":1463.17,"body":"Oh, yes. I enjoyed that, Dorothy."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1463.17,"endTime":1464.44,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":1467.01,"endTime":1472.22,"body":"You have a lyrical way of writing that's really beautiful."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1472.43,"endTime":1482.1,"body":"Thank you. One thing I did hear in my college workshops was people recognized my voice."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1482.48,"endTime":1485.27,"body":"They're like, oh, I would know that was you anywhere."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1486.35,"endTime":1492.13,"body":"Which I felt as a strength, because I feel like a lot of times,"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1492.13,"endTime":1494.67,"body":"you know, people will say, oh, you need to find your voice."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1495.05,"endTime":1497.17,"body":"And I was always like, no problem."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1499.11,"endTime":1503.25,"body":"I found my voice a long time ago, and there it is."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1503.95,"endTime":1506.8,"body":"I can't change it. That's why I said I can't do fiction. It's just,"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1506.8,"endTime":1509.6,"body":"I'm just writing what I think."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":1511.65,"endTime":1516.87,"body":"Do you have any stories still inside that like a specific a specific story that"},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":1516.87,"endTime":1521.94,"body":"you've wanted to share that you've wanted to get out and write and you just haven't been able to yet?"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1523.64,"endTime":1530.66,"body":"I don't think so. I don't think so. I mean, I have been writing since I was"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1530.66,"endTime":1535.09,"body":"in my mid-40s, and I'll be 80 next year."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1535.51,"endTime":1538.39,"body":"So I've got a lot of stories."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1540.22,"endTime":1546.0,"body":"And I've written them. And actually, that was something I noticed is like,"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1546.0,"endTime":1549.57,"body":"I keep telling the same stories over and over, you know, like old people do."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1553.14,"endTime":1558.38,"body":"So you know I just need to polish them up and figure out how to put them together"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1558.81,"endTime":1563.68,"body":"and then start submitting them. Sending them off. See what happens."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":1564.76,"endTime":1571.8,"body":"There you go. Well eMerge is open for general submissions starting October 1st..."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":1571.8,"endTime":1576.22,"body":"so if you want to pull some stuff out and uh and polish it up. I know a place."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1577.27,"endTime":1579.63,"body":"Thank you. Thank you. That makes me feel great."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":1580.13,"endTime":1583.14,"body":"And definitely, definitely listen to your writing group."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":1583.14,"endTime":1588.51,"body":"You do have, I mean, granted, as much as we would love you to just keep sending"},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":1588.51,"endTime":1593.52,"body":"work to us, there are other options out there. And I'm sure that there are other"},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":1593.52,"endTime":1597.48,"body":"audiences who would love to get a piece of you as well."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1597.93,"endTime":1600.29,"body":"Thank you. Thank you, Aubrey."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":1601.35,"endTime":1606.74,"body":"Well, we don't have a whole lot of time left. Do you have any kind of social"},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":1606.74,"endTime":1612.99,"body":"media presence that you would want people to be aware of? Or is there anywhere"},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":1612.99,"endTime":1615.24,"body":"else that people can find you besides eMerge?"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1615.24,"endTime":1620.26,"body":"You know, interestingly enough, I've been hearing about Substack,"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1620.87,"endTime":1626.93,"body":"and I thought about having a Substack account, and I started to get nervous"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1626.93,"endTime":1628.76,"body":"that people might copy my work."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1630.46,"endTime":1634.39,"body":"Like take it without my permission, so I didn't do it."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1634.97,"endTime":1638.73,"body":"Early on, I used to have a blog. I wrote a blog for a while,"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1638.73,"endTime":1641.47,"body":"and again, I kind of let that drop."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1642.38,"endTime":1647.63,"body":"I mean, I was an early blogger. And I still had an AOL account. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1649.53,"endTime":1651.42,"body":"And it's still out there somewhere."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":1651.67,"endTime":1654.45,"body":"I was going to say, I know someone who has an AOL account."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1657.13,"endTime":1663.68,"body":"My only media presence is my Facebook and my Instagram. But I don't put my writing up there."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":1665.33,"endTime":1671.4,"body":"That is fair. I know a lot of people who are pretty security sensitive about"},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":1671.4,"endTime":1673.99,"body":"that kind of thing. It's justifiable."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1674.15,"endTime":1674.46,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":1674.82,"endTime":1680.23,"body":"Well, and also it counts as publication. So if it's... you have to"},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":1680.23,"endTime":1684.98,"body":"be careful what you're what you're posting on social media because once it's"},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":1684.98,"endTime":1688.57,"body":"up there it's it's published and you won't be able to submit it to other places."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1688.81,"endTime":1693.73,"body":"I learned that after submitting to emergence that you know this this could be"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1693.73,"endTime":1700.4,"body":"the only time I I get to put this story out there so there's a lot to learn still..."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1701.75,"endTime":1708.4,"body":"And I'm learning as I go. And even agreeing to do this, this morning I said"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1708.4,"endTime":1712.19,"body":"to myself, why did I do this to myself?"},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":1713.84,"endTime":1715.95,"body":"Hopefully it hasn't been that bad."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1715.95,"endTime":1720.49,"body":"Oh, it's been wonderful. And I feel like I have a new friend in you, you know."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":1721.24,"endTime":1722.66,"body":"Aw, well, thank you."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1722.66,"endTime":1726.71,"body":"I've met someone that I like. So that's always good."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":1727.0,"endTime":1732.52,"body":"Trust me, the writing community is way friendlier than a lot of people think it is."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1733.65,"endTime":1740.57,"body":"I agree with you. I think we all understand how difficult it is, how lonely it is."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":1740.76,"endTime":1741.31,"body":"It can be."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1742.05,"endTime":1745.26,"body":"It's you and your computer or you and your pen."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":1745.98,"endTime":1751.4,"body":"And sometimes it can be hard delving into yourself and pulling some of this"},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":1751.4,"endTime":1758.74,"body":"stuff out and excavating it and then having to deal with it once it's there."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1759.27,"endTime":1764.37,"body":"Well, like I said, that seems to be my strength is I really kind of don't care."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1767.52,"endTime":1770.95,"body":"And even with my children, you know, I remember my son said,"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1770.95,"endTime":1776.29,"body":"well, when can we read your thesis? And I said, do you want to hear about your mom's sex life?"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1777.16,"endTime":1779.06,"body":"And he was just like, no."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1781.29,"endTime":1782.64,"body":"Then you might not want to read it."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":1784.91,"endTime":1791.33,"body":"There you go. So, you know, some things kids just don't need to hear about from their mothers."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1791.96,"endTime":1797.27,"body":"And I think Anne Lamott says, if you wanted me to write nice things about you,"},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1797.27,"endTime":1801.11,"body":"you should have thought about that, you know, the way you treated me."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":1803.27,"endTime":1804.51,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":1806.99,"endTime":1811.59,"body":"Well, on that happy note, we're going to wrap things up today."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1811.73,"endTime":1812.29,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":1812.93,"endTime":1815.76,"body":"Dorothy, thank you. This has been delightful. I've enjoyed it."},{"speaker":"Dorothy Freeman","startTime":1816.02,"endTime":1819.13,"body":"Thank you. Me too. I'm surprised that I did enjoy it."},{"speaker":"Aubrey Green","startTime":1820.48,"endTime":1822.77,"body":"Well, I'm glad we can be surprising. All right."},{"speaker":"Cat Templeton","startTime":1823.26,"endTime":1824.57,"body":"We hope you've enjoyed today's"},{"speaker":"Cat Templeton","startTime":1824.57,"endTime":1830.42,"body":"episode of eMerge Unchained with our host, the eMerge Literary Magazine's editor, Aubrey Green. The eMerge Unchained podcast is brought to you by eMerge Literary Magazine. Our producers are Charles and Sandra Templeton. Our website designer is Cat Templeton. Thank you again for joining us for eMerge Unchained and remember we'll be here to celebrate the courage it takes to put words into the world. So keep writing. Until next time."}]}