Maternal Wealth Podcast - Own Your Birth
The Maternal Wealth Podcast creates a collective space for sharing all birth-related stories. I want to acknowledge birth's uniqueness, honor its variations, and remind us of the power we hold in giving birth.
As a Labor and Delivery Nurse, I see the impact of our stories. Let's share those stories with those who come after us to prepare them for what's to come. For those who came before us, allowing them to reminisce and heal as we realize we were not alone in our experiences.
Maternal Wealth is currently streaming in twenty-five countries: New Zealand, Australia, Slovakia, Canada, Finland, South Africa, Belgium, the United Kingdom, Rwanda, Poland, India, Sweden, Germany, Puerto Rico, China, Italy, Denmark, Brazil, Indonesia, Vietnam, Spain, Greenland, Cyprus, Tanzania and the United States.
Maternal Wealth Podcast - Own Your Birth
Jutta Wohlrab Tells Us Why Birth Should Be Your Greatest Achievement, Not Your Greatest Fear
What if giving birth was considered your greatest achievement rather than your greatest fear? This question sits at the heart of my conversation with Jutta Wohlrab, a German midwife whose 40-year journey across three continents offers us a rare glimpse into how birth can be both gentler and more empowering.
Jutta's path to midwifery began unexpectedly in the 1970s when a book about natural childbirth ignited her passion. She takes us on a fascinating tour of global birth practices, revealing how Germany's approach differs dramatically from other countries. Did you know that German law mandates a midwife at every birth, while doctors cannot legally deliver babies without a midwife present? This centuries-old protection speaks volumes about prioritizing women's needs during birth.
We dive deep into the science of oxytocin—the crucial difference between your body's natural "love hormone" and the synthetic version commonly used in hospitals. Jutta explains why natural oxytocin, released in gentle pulses during undisturbed birth, creates that magical post-birth euphoria that makes you feel like you could "fly." By contrast, synthetic oxytocin delivered through an IV "hits you like a rocket" without the emotional benefits that help with bonding and processing your birth experience.
Perhaps most powerful is Jutta's insight into how birth partners can transform your experience. Whether it's your spouse, friend, or doula, a well-prepared support person becomes what she calls your "Perfect Pregnancy Partner"—someone who breathes with you, encourages you, and helps you tap into your innate strength.
As we discuss the troubling rise in postpartum mental health struggles and birth trauma, Jutta offers wisdom gained from thousands of births: finding knowledgeable experts, building supportive communities, and embracing birth as a profound life event rather than a medical procedure.
Want to reclaim the joy and power in childbirth? Connect with Jutta through her book "Happy Birthing Days" or visit her website. And please share this episode with anyone preparing for birth or supporting birthing people—because every mother deserves to feel that birth was her greatest achievement.
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Welcome to the Maternal Wealth Podcast, a space for all things related to maternal health, pregnancy and beyond. I'm your host, stephanie Theriault. I'm a labor and delivery nurse and a mother to three beautiful boys. Each week, we dive into inspiring stories and expert insights to remind us of the power that you hold in childbirth and motherhood. We're here to explore the joys, the challenges and the complexities of maternal health. Every mother's journey is unique and every story deserves to be told. Please note that this podcast is for entertainment purposes only. It is not intended to replace professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. Always consult with your healthcare provider for medical guidance that is tailored to your specific needs. Are you ready? Let's get into it.
Speaker 1:In this week's episode, I connect with the inspiring German midwife, jutta Worlam, who brings over 40 years of midwifery experience into her practice across Germany, new Zealand and Australia. Together, we explore the profound intimacy of the midwifery model of care, the beautiful variations and practice found across the globe, the empowering journey of childbirth and the essential quest for a supportive community with true experts in the field of birth. Jutta sheds light on the fascinating insights from her recent book Happy Birthing Days a midwife's secret to a joyful, safe and happy birth. We discuss the vital distinctions between organic oxytocin and synthetic pitocin, the transformative role of prepared birth partners and the rich legacy of midwifery in Germany. I hope that you find our conversation as uplifting as I did. Welcome, jutta, to the Maternal Well Podcast. I'm so glad you're here.
Speaker 2:What can I say? Thank you, thank you. I'm really excited to be here and I'm grateful you invited me as a guest, so thanks very much.
Speaker 1:Of course I'm excited, as a nurse in the United States in a very medical, complex practice, to learn about more of a midwifery care model in Germany, and I know you've worked in other countries too, so I'm excited to get into this conversation.
Speaker 2:Well, what shall we start? First things first. So many things I could talk about and, if you want, I will introduce a little bit about the model in a moment.
Speaker 1:Sure, what made you decide to become a midwife and what does the midwifery care model look like for you in your practice?
Speaker 2:Oh, what a wonderful question. So you know, when I was young, I didn't want to be a midwife. I wanted to be an actress, a singer, a journalist, an artist. And so when I was a teenager, I applied for art school. I wanted to do something with my hands. But everywhere I went in the 70s, people said, oh no, we already got a boy. So I was very frustrated. I didn't understand why would they always have a boy instead of me when I was so motivated?
Speaker 2:Anyway, years went by, I was still in school and one night I thought, well, I better take a walk around and have a little walk to think what else it is that I could become. So, you know, I looked at all different areas. I was a very social person. I always was the person that people, my you know, my friends, teenage friends would come to and tell their problems, and I would always try to find the best solution. So I was really like that, a go-to person for finding a solution. So when I took this walk, I thought shall I become a social worker? Nah, shall I become a nurse? Nah, not really.
Speaker 2:But somehow the word midwife, giving birth, pregnancy, the beginning of everything, popped into my head. Now, I didn't know a pregnant woman, I didn't know a midwife. But the next day I got some information. And a couple of days later I bought a book which was called Birth Without Violence, written by a fantastic obstetrician named Frédéric Le Boyer, who in fact brought back natural childbirth to Europe in the 70s. And then I was convinced that's it. I was a humanist, I was a feminist at a young age and I felt like, wow, that is so amazing, that's what I want to be. And after that I never changed my mind again.
Speaker 1:Talk to us about the path into midwifery education, clinical practice. How does one become a midwife in Germany?
Speaker 2:Okay, in the 80s when I trained, you actually trained in a state hospital and you had to do a medical diploma in front of the state. So it's like a true medical diploma. We're not lay midwives and you cannot train with a midwife. You do an internship with a home birth midwife if you want, but you train in a hospital. In the 80s it was the first time ever that we trained for three years In the meantime. Now midwives in Germany have to study, so they have to train in a hospital and have to study. Now you are not allowed to call yourself midwife if you haven't had done your state diploma. So no one in Germany can call themselves midwife. It is a true profession and you have to show your true diploma everywhere where you register in the health office and so on and so on. Register in the health office and so on and so on.
Speaker 1:And then now, what does birth look like in Germany? Are you finding women predominantly give birth in a hospital or a birth center, or at home.
Speaker 2:Okay, so, first of all, in Germany, all women have free choice of where they want to give birth. They can freely choose I want a home birth. They can say, no, I would love to go to a birth center. They can say I would love to take a midwife with visiting rights. They can say I go to a tiny small hospital or to a big tertiary facility with a neonatal unit. First of all, you have free choice. But when you look at the statistics, of course Germany is going like all other countries. We are not the number one home birth country in Europe. That, in fact, is Holland, and the number of home births has kind of lingered around in a very low range 9% is the number. But there's a big problem, I think you know women would love to do more home birth, more birth centers, but our liability insurance became very, very high and for that reason I think more women will be going to the hospital.
Speaker 2:Now I want to say something about hospitals, stephanie, because hospitals in Germany are quite different to ones in the States. First of all, giving birth in Germany is covered by insurance. Everyone is insured, so no one has to pay anything out of pocket. It doesn't matter whether you have a home birth or water birth, whether you have a C-section if needed doesn't matter. The only time you have to pay a bit on top is when you take a midwife for visiting rights, a home birth or birth center. You pay a little bit of money for the fact that the midwife is going to be five weeks on call. Now, when it comes to the birth situation, how Germany is really interacting, I have to say okay, germany released guidelines to lower the C-section rate. Now here in Berlin, where I am big city, there's hospitals that have a C-section rate of 11 to 15%. That is a really good ratio of 11 to 15%, and that is a really good ratio.
Speaker 2:We also have hospitals that have 35, 40, 42% of a C-section rate. So it really varies very much, but we have all kinds of hospitals and since you can choose freely, you can also have a look when do I want to give birth and where do they offer choices that I want and not the system wants? However, just to be crystal clear, you know, globally we look at 30 to 80, in some countries even 90% of a C-section rate. So none of that is great, and even Germany has to definitely lower the C-section and the intervention rate. There's absolutely no doubt.
Speaker 1:When you first got out of school and you started your midwifery practice, where did you start? Did you start in a hospital or in a birth center? And then I would love to hear about your progression into your midwifery, because I know you've also worked in other countries yeah, lovely question.
Speaker 2:So, of course, when I started off, I started off in a state hospital in Stuttgart, in the very south, where they make Porsche, just for all your information. So this is the area where I grew up and I was very lucky because this stage hospital was run by a midwife that had sent two of her midwives to Paris. Frédéric Le Boyer had a clinic where women could give birth in any way they wanted, singing in dark lights, like breathing babies out into the world, and so once these two midwives came back, the state hospital introduced a natural how can I say natural labor room with a double bed, schiller-kitzinger pillows, where we were all leaning over In candlelight in a state hospital. We were actually breathing babies out into the world. And then we had bathtubs on wheels not to clean the baby, but the father would give the baby a relaxation bath just after the birth. And let me point out, we even had two rooms with full rooming in, and this since the 70s, that was revolutionary. We're full rooming in, and this since the 70s, that was revolutionary. So the way I was trained in how to give birth was a very natural approach and, I have to say, a very human approach. Women's center, family center. Partners were already there, quite, something spectacular in the late 70s and early 80s.
Speaker 2:And then from there, once I had my state exam, I was having a look, where do I want to go? I thought I need a job first and I wanted to get some experience. And for some reason it was really difficult. All the places where I wanted to go, they said no, no, we want a midwife with experience. I said to them how on earth can I become an experienced midwife if no one employs me? So I ended up in a tiny pilgrimage village. But I came to the place where I was 20,000 people and after six months I became the team leader of the birth unit. So I said to the people there right, let's just play some music, bring some tapes along, sit in the bathtub, relax and breathe your babies out. And so I can tell you, it was so small. I was the team leader. People said what shall we do? I said, well, we do what the woman wants to do and we'll give her the best experience.
Speaker 2:And then from there, I'm honest, my journey took me to many places. Later on I went traveling and then, when I came back, I started working for a home birth practice. The first place for water birth in all Berlin, before any hospital. Yeah, it was sensational. But I'm honest, the woman that employed me, the midwife, was not very nice. She really used us, our workforce. She paid very little money, the birthing was great, but the workload was crazy. So after some months I quit because I felt like I can't work from six in the morning until two o'clock at night, seven days a week. That's not on. But what was great is I learned how water birth worked. I was running classes already, lots of postnatal care, and it was exciting. So then after that I thought well, where can you go now? So I decided to offer my service to a teaching hospital. A midwifery school was attached, the delight of all the students there. I was working in a labor ward and you know it was great because when we had little to do I would just say right, girls, I'm going to bust at the door, I put a pillow underneath my little T-shirt and I'm going to act it out. And whatever I act out, I want you to practice. So we had a great time and I introduced into this hospital over many years, where I worked on and off, homeopathy, water birth colors, I introduced acupuncture, I opened the first acupuncture practice for pregnant women in this hospital, and so I brought a big, big change in a very conservative environment, which, in fact, will never be forgotten.
Speaker 2:But then I'm a really I'm a real big time traveler. I love going around. So my journey took me into New Zealand where I worked as a senior midwife for one of the four biggest hospitals. Now I have to say I don't know if anyone here that is listening has been to New Zealand Two beautiful islands, lots of nature, lovely people, but the birthing is also not the greatest. So I worked for one of those four biggest hospitals big neonatal unit, risk pregnancies. I worked with a senior midwife, 10 labor rooms, all midwifery led. So that was great. But after two years I felt like, ah, it's not really what I want to do.
Speaker 2:So I went back to Germany and then my next stopover was Australia. Because I love Australia and I've been many, many times Now in Australia, I migrated. My wish was I really would like to work for a birth center. I don't want to work for one of the big hospitals anymore. Done it, been there, done it. So I started working in Sydney for the Royal Prince Alfred Hospital, and that is well. I don't know what the biggest one is in the States. Here in Berlin it's Charité. It's a big teaching and scientific research hospital, and so I started working there in their birth center, which is 100% midwifery led, no doctors involved, no CTG, nothing like this, only a handheld doptone 100 births, 30% of those are water births Absolutely fantastic. So some of the women never saw a doctor in their whole pregnancy, birth and the time after, or maybe once, or if they needed an ultrasound.
Speaker 2:And then my journey took me actually back to Germany. Sadly, my parents got very, very sick. So you know the distance between Australia and Germany is a huge distance. So I went back and then I started my own midwifery practice. I decided not to do births anymore or attend them, but to gradually, gradually go more into education, and so I started running my weekend workshops, my hypnobirthing. I became an energy trainer and you know, this journey is a journey on its own. Everything I've done, from becoming a trainer, a coach, a speaker, speaking all over the world Norway, india, belarus got nowhere and more coming, publishing my book, but also being right in the beginning. Many of my clients find me at eight weeks, nine weeks, 10 weeks. Some find me very, very late, but they love because I help them again solve their problems. So you know, I think in our work we can find so many different pit stops where we can do something for the woman, for the man, for the baby, and that is amazing. Wow, it was a long talk, sorry.
Speaker 1:I want to talk about interventions in birth. You have a great experience because you have worked in different hospitals. You've worked in different countries and thinking about interventions and how there's such a wide variance of interventions when it comes to birth work. In your book you talk about oxytocin. Where I live and work, oxytocin is everywhere. Oxytocin is everywhere, but I am referring to synthetic oxytocin.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, you know, the real oxytocin is Love. Is in referring to synthetic oxytocin? Yeah well, you know, the real oxytocin is love is in the air. Love is in the air.
Speaker 1:I want to read a little excerpt. You write it is oxytocin that stimulates the frequent contractions required to give birth. But once the baby is born, oxytocin is released. When a woman looks at her baby for the first time, giving rise to that vital bond that she will have with her baby. You write for a tip avoid synthetic oxytocin. Your brain cannot process it. Natural oxytocin is released in pulses, whereas the artificial stuff will hit you like a rocket and will not give you the feelings of connectedness, happiness. You like a rocket and will not give you the feelings of connectedness, happiness, euphoria, and that natural oxytocin brings.
Speaker 1:Two things I want to say. One, I have three children. Two were induced with the synthetic oxytocin and the third one I was like no, don't touch me. I waited for labor. I can speak from personal experience that what you've written resonates with me Having the natural oxytocin in your body, that rush, those endorphins, that connectedness. I left the hospital wanting to do it again. I was on a high, it happened to me. It wasn't my experience, it's something that somebody did to me. So I can connect to that and I think about what's going on with women here in the US. There's so much postpartum depression and people having birth trauma. There's such a high incidence of people using our birth providers encouraging the synthetic oxytocin with induction, so I would love for you to elaborate on what you've written and how you educate your patients or people who come to you about the differences of synthetic oxytocin and natural oxytocin and how it can affect your labor, birth and your postpartum period.
Speaker 2:In my courses I explain about the orchestra of hormones and how it's playing. And you know there is. How can I say I tell them about the difference between the synthetic and the well, body-made oxytocin? Because the difference is how can I say? Let me think, how can I explain this in the best way? Well, oxytocin is produced by a small gland in the middle of the brain. It's released in pulses, naturally. That's why contractions come. That's why contractions come. That's why contractions go.
Speaker 2:Oxytocin, in its own ability in our sexuality, gives us an orgasm. It allows a certain group of muscles to move in a wave-like motion. That's why, when we have an orgasm, we have this kind of feeling. When we give birth, we have the same kind of feeling. It only talks to a certain group of muscles because otherwise, every time when you're in love, you would walk around in a wave-like motion. I believe your boss would say excuse me, stephanie, if you were a boss, what the heck is wrong with you? And he would say love, I'm in love, I'm in love. And that's, of course, our gut feeling, because that's our second brain. They found receptors, of course, on top of the uterus and that's why, when we are in labor, the uterus, like a coffee plunger, goes up and down. They found receptors in our heart. So you know, many things in our birth happen through the limbic system, which is the old part of the brain where, of course, birth is in. And the natural way of giving birth will allow you to, first of all, feel open and trust. That's already essential feeling that you have when you make love and that can only happen when it comes internal. And secondly, it's a hormone that lowers anxieties. It's a hormone that connects you. It's also a hormone that is not only a sexual hormone. You know, it's like a hormone when we hold hands, when we hug our friends, when we spend some time together, we sit and enjoy and we really feel like we're part of the universe. But it can only work like this when given either through your nose or produced by yourself, because when it goes through the blood it doesn't have this effect. Now, if it would be given through your nose, because the nose is the direct gateway straight away directly into the limbic system, into your brain, nose and mouth. But of course we don't eat oxytocin right now.
Speaker 2:But in the past we used to use a nasal spray. I don't know if you ever used this. It was called Cytocinone nasal spray. We used it as a pre-overdue stress test. So we would give a couple of you know, hops of nasal spray and then put the woman on the monitor to see what was going on. And we also did it in the postnatal time. Sometimes, when you know the milk came in and you wanted the milk to flow, then you would give a couple of nasal sprays, like a couple of hops, and that's it. But, you know, then it was taken off and because I think it was, the dosage seemed like okay, a bit of this or a bit more, not quite sure how much it is. Well, you know, this was a different time, I'm quite clear, so I still remember it.
Speaker 2:Let me give you a research, because I always say love is in the air first of all, people think they fall in love on first sight, but they fall in love on first smell. You know research. What they did is they had a group of men, and men in general have less oxytocin receptors than women. I think nature knows that women at one stage will have to give birth. It's not the men, you know. And men in the old days had to go hunting in the Stone Age and life was dangerous. Men would sometimes not come back and so in this research they gave money to like $500 to a group of men. Half of the group of men got nasal spray, the other half didn't. Then a man would walk in and would say I'm a professional player, give me all your money, honey, let me play. You know, oxytocin is so amazing as a hormone. It really gives you this feeling of okay, I blindly trust you, I'm so in love with you. Out of the nasal spray group, I think more than 90% blindly, willingly give their money to a guy they had never seen in their life. And so when we say love makes blind, that's the same effect.
Speaker 2:Coming back to the effect, so when you have a hundred times more oxytocin after the birth which of course you have, why? Because nature is smart. So, first of all, when the baby's out, nature wants to be sure mom is going to be safe, so she can birth her placenta, her afterbirth. So that's why you have 100 times more oxytocin. Secondly, one other effect of oxytocin is it helps you to get over things. So when your birth was hard and you have 100 times more oxytocin, it still allows you to bond, fall in love with your baby and also get a little bit easier over a harder birth.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and for the first hour, your oxytocin level and all other hormones are so high that you really feel like I call it ecstasy for moms to be all right. You're on this real hormone rush. You feel like I can fly, you laugh, you cry, you kiss, you do all of it. Or it would have come somehow through your nose when it is in an IV drip. I think it hits the brain barrier in a different way and has just a different effect. However, I want to say something for all the moms here and women that might need something or even might need a C-section. Please don't feel sad. There is when you understand how those hormones work. There truly is ways how you can reconnect and fall in love, even that you maybe have a little bit a slower onset of it. There is love on second sight, right, stephanie?
Speaker 1:yes, absolutely, me, yes, absolutely. We paused this episode for a quick message from our sponsor. At Maternal Wealth, we aim to ensure that you have access to the best and the most appropriate care. That's why we created a Maternal Healthcare Provider database. Maternal health providers can easily create profiles to promote their services and business, helping to increase access for those seeking their care. This is a one-of-a-kind database that offers a new and exciting way for women to search for and find maternal health providers near them and tailored to their specific needs. Profiles feature badges that highlight various services, such as TODAC-friendly practices, all-female practices, lgbtqai plus inclusivity, language options, access to vaginal breach services and, more Additionally, be sure to check out our Not your Average Birth course.
Speaker 1:In this course, I discuss the variations that exist in hospital practices based on policies, staffing and budgets, all of which can directly affect your birth experience and outcome. I want to shift gears and talk about the emotional and physical support that partners give while we're in labor, and you really go into this in your book and you call out partners and you tell the woman or the birthing individuals who are preparing for birth. Pick somebody who's going to be able to show up for you throughout the labor. Right and you really go into how partners who are going to be there and how they can provide the emotional and physical support. So I'd like for you just to talk with us about what partners can do and why it's so important.
Speaker 2:First of all, just a quick story, not too long. My dad was a soldier in the German army and trust me, he really was. He became an officer. He was very supportive, he liked kickboxing, he loved riding motorbike races, he loved driving car races and I think he loved my mom. So 1957, 1962. And, of course, on the 22nd of May, thank you for the birthday greetings. And, of course, on the 22nd of May, thank you for the birthday greetings. My dad attended all three births in a time when no man would come along to the birth.
Speaker 2:So you know I had a role model since I was a kid, and so I tell you, for me in the 70s and 80s, when I started off, this came along, and always what partners have their own place? First of all, t for two and two to tango. And who knows the woman emotionally better than the partner? No one normally. You know it's your baby. It's like something that you created together, and to be at a birth is amazing, but only, and only if you are well prepared. Otherwise you might be in shock. The way you see the woman in labor, the whole experience. You can be so strong, and so I like partners to be involved, because isn't it? The worst part is if you're just kind of standing around like a we call it, like a false penny, and you feel like you should do something, but I'm not quite sure what to do. So that's why I say partners should be involved from the beginning, as soon as they feel like, okay, let's get into it, and definitely latest after the birth class, because they can be a perfect I call it almost handmaiden. They will hold your hand, they will breathe together with you, they will give you compliments, they will bring your dopamine you. They will give you compliments, they will bring your dopamine up. They will tell you wow, you're so amazing. You are really, you know, fantastic. You can do it. And here's my hand, let's go together. They will massage you, they will offer you a drink. Yeah, they will really comfort you. And it's like when you hike up a mountain. Sometimes you feel like I can't do this anymore, and then someone comes along and says all right, I can't walk for you, but you and me we can walk together. Let's go together and, step by step, you do. And you know also at the end, when you have been at the birth and you saw your baby being born, it creates also a different feeling of wow, what a big job the woman has done. You know, it's almost as if you kneel down in front of Mother Nature, and I think it will often help partners to understand how vulnerable you are and how much support you need for the first few weeks.
Speaker 2:Partners that are well-prepared become what I call a triple P. You know what a triple P is your perfect pregnancy partner, Partner in crime, and partners love it. You know I work with experts from all over the world. They come from cultures where men often don't come to the birth and they are so grateful to have, you know, some knowledge to come along, to feel like I'm a real part of that, I'm important, I can do something, I can help, and that's why I think partners are important. And it can be little things just handing you a drink, giving you a hug, holding your hand, walking with you it's all these little things that you do. You really do that when you really really love someone, isn't it?
Speaker 1:For women who are going into labor and they don't have a partner. All these things that you speak of can also be given through a mother, a friend, anyone who is there to support you.
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. It doesn't have to be a partner-partner. It can be your best friend, it can be your mom if she's up for it. Some moms are, some are not. It can be your sister, it can be even a doula, it can be a midwife with visiting rights, but it has to be someone that is really up for it, someone that says, okay, I'm committed, I'm here to help. I would say midwives often take this part as well, right, stephanie, at least in Germany. But again, the problem is often being in the system. You're so caught up often with being so busy, so many women coming in the system. You're so caught up often with being so busy, so many women coming in emergencies, so that often you cannot give. There is so much wanting one-to-one care that every woman in fact would deserve.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's hard working with the obstetric care model and a midwifery care model. Even in the event where it's super busy and there's a lot going on, patients are delivering and going back to the OR. I have found in my clinical practice that the midwifery model of care the midwives will be there longer, more empathetic, more patient than the obstetric model of care more patients than the obstetric model of care.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have to say, I think in the States there's a big difference, where here in Germany, I have to say, it's midwives, so the obstetric care is still midwives. So even if you have a private doctor, even if a private doctor would show up for the birth in Germany, if everything is a normal birth, it's still the midwife that would actually do the delivery, it's not the doctor, and so the doctor will be just standing there and they'd say congratulations, maybe do some sutures or examine the baby. When I worked in Australia, for instance, I was very like what is going on here. So when the woman had a private obstetrician, even a birth center, the other woman would come in, I would take care of her. Then I would have to ring this private practitioner or obstetrician and he would come in and then finally put the hands on the baby and then get all the flowers and all the glory. I was like what? What is that? I mean for me? I love to empower women and what I love, for instance, is okay, I've done water births already in the 90s I attended them.
Speaker 2:But when I worked in Australia, they, for instance, have done big studies about water birth, water birth in the hospital system is hands off. No one is twiddling around with their fingers. Nope, no matter, no, no, no one is doing anything. We have a big flashlight and a little mirror that is unbreakable. You just check with the flashlight and I say, when I started working in a birth center in Australia, I said to my colleague we're out, we have a lot of power cuts here. What the heck is going on? So many big flashlights? My colleague was on the floor, you are. All I know is when there's big flashlights everywhere usually means power cut, and so I learned it was the flashlight that you used for just checking, is the head out? Great, telling the woman breathe the baby out, and then you would just help pick it up.
Speaker 2:So you see, every country has a little detail that's different, and I know that the states have a very separate kind of system where here, no matter where you go, every labor ward, it's midwives working, not nurses. Nurses and not a lot. And we don't have obstetric nurses. We always had direct entry midwives. That's it Okay From the beginning. And by the way people, ladies, listen here comes In Germany, by law, midwife is allowed to do a normal delivery all by herself, even without a doctor.
Speaker 2:That's why home birth and birth centers are possible, but a doctor cannot do a birth without the presence of a midwife, and this law is over 100 years old. So I think that's something really good to say, because when there was a shortage of midwives, doctors wanted to deliver babies only with nurses. But nurses have no training like we have. They know nothing about babies birth, all of that, and then the midwives put out a big protest and said no, no, this law exists and we want to keep this law. No way that we're going to change it, and ever since this law has been staying with us. That is a big protection for mothers, babies and for midwives.
Speaker 1:I love how you prefaced that, saying that this law is a big protection for mothers, babies and for midwives. I love how you prefaced that, saying that this lot is a big protection for mothers, babies and women, because it's so true. It's so true. I didn't know that. That's amazing.
Speaker 2:I wish more places were like that Well, you know, I wish every woman would have access to wonderful midwifery care. I wish that every midwife would also be able to create a really good income through her wonderful work. This is what I wish. I wish happiness and balance on all parts. I'll tell you what. I also know that some of the obstetricians would wish for that too, because I've worked with many, many, and you know many. I mean people. Look, I'm 62,. I mean you. You can't see me, but I've done this since I'm 20.
Speaker 2:I've worked with so many doctors here in Berlin. Some of them they were just young assistant doctors, and many of those are now first consultants. But when they meet me they always say got your job, we learned so much together. I said yeah, because when you started, I said you know if you're really good, if you're friendly with the midwives. I said yeah, because when you started, I said you know if you're really good, if you're friendly with the midwives. I said then we will allow you to do a few things that you normally don't do. Okay, but on the other hand, you also have to. Let us get on with what we know from our experience.
Speaker 2:So you know, even though I worked many times in hospitals, I found a whole nice group of wonderful, wonderful doctors Not all of them, but a huge number. But even nowadays, so 20 years later, they always say good job. I say, come on, say it. It was great because it was working together. This is how it should be okay. Look who you are and what you do. It's really working together for the best outcome for mothers and babies and families and partners. You are and what you do it's really working together for the best outcome for mothers and babies and families and partners. It should be the happiest day in your life. Yeah, really, because you know, stephanie, my saying we do forget birthdays, but we never forget the day of the birth.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I do genuinely believe that anyone going into birth work wants to help. From what I see, a lot of the mishaps and the fails come from the system right From lack of education, lack of staffing, protocols in hospitals, at least in the US. The hospitals are for profit, so policies and protocols are profit-based. People go into birth work, whether it's midwives, obstetricians wanting to do the right thing and wanting to have all the time in the world to let women labor, but barriers to care because of policies, staffing and issues that are more systemic-based as opposed to bad practice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's sad because there's so much evidence about that. I mean, you know God knows how many years every study has shown, when women are in midwifery care, one-to-one in their pregnancy and during labor, the outcome at the birth is just much better. Also, you know, even like, for instance, for everything afterwards I mean Germany has a. I have to say it's kind of both ways. For the women it's a fantastic system. For the midwives it's getting really bad right now. But the women can have 22 consultations with the midwife and they still go see their doctor. That's all separate. They can choose freely where they want to give birth and then the midwife will come up to 12 weeks after the birth to their home or after some weeks to the midwife's practice. But in the first 10 days the midwife can come once per day for a postnatal visit. After 10 days, 16 more visits for the woman. You know the system would be wonderful. Even a childbirth class is included for the woman. All of that. It's just that the midwives at the moment get put down with very little amount of money. We work for very little money and that's the problem. So I always tell the women the system is fantastic for the women. The problem is it's not fantastic for the midwife and that creates a big gap.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that gap is getting bigger and bigger year by year. But yeah, for instance, I think the number of women breastfeeding, of course, in Germany is higher than in the US. But I'm not surprised if you have to go back to work. What? After two, three, four weeks? Breastfeeding is only established six to eight weeks after your birth. Only your postnatal time is already up to six weeks, so you go back in a time where you're actually not even fully, well, fully recovered, say you know, partially recovered. So I find that cool, I have to say, for such a modern country it is really really bad image.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sorry, it's okay. I agree with you and I think that what you're saying is reflecting in outcomes that we're seeing in women right now. It just was reported that the number one cause of perinatal death in women is postpartum suicide. That's the number one cause right now, and if you think about all the factors that we're talking about you think about intrapartum care, where synthetic Pitocin is the predominant there's high rates of C-section, women are reporting birth trauma, women don't have the financial means to stay home postpartum these are all compounded issues that are leading to a horrible, horrible outcome where mothers are committing suicide, and it's also predominantly affecting women of color in the United States, and it's something that we as a society need to work towards, through women coming forward and creating a space where women can talk about their stories instead of just everyone telling them.
Speaker 1:This is what it's supposed to be like, this is what it is. This is how you're supposed to feel. This is what it's supposed to be like. This is what it is. This is how you're supposed to feel. This is what birth is supposed to be like creating a space where women can talk to others and hear from other women that I'm not alone and that this isn't healthy. And how can we move forward together in creating a healthy, safe space for us to be moms, to be women and have healthy and happy families?
Speaker 2:yeah, and I really say a fantastic job you're doing, stephanie, really chapeau, thank you. You know there's a couple of things I want to say about that. Of course, it has never always been like that in Germany. It was also women that demanded things. Women said no, I'm not putting up with that, I'm not doing that.
Speaker 2:Now I will give a story of a friend of mine that home birthed in Germany and birthed a second baby in the States. I will give you the short story because it's quite an interesting story. So I think what it needs is women to be empowered, partners to be empowered, and also sometimes to say no to the system, to say is that really necessary? Proof, to me it's really necessary. I mean, I know people will say you're 40 years old, you have to have an induction at. You know, once you hit 40 weeks, otherwise you kill your baby. Then I would say, okay, show me the scientific, really, show me the research that this is true. Show me a proven research, not just a lame duck. Show it to me.
Speaker 2:Like, I have a client, well, had a client. She was 55 when she was pregnant. Of course she had a donor egg. Yeah, well, not allowed in Germany, she did it in LA. So thanks to the US, and she went back to Germany. Then she came to me and said I'm 55 and I want a natural birth. I said great, you're talking to the right person. Listen, everyone will tell you you're 55. You should have a C-section. I said I'm not telling you this, but anyhow. So my client went 40 plus three and I said to her once you hit 40 weeks, the pressure's going to be full on. So you know, she said yes to an induction at, I think, 40 plus 3. She said yes to an induction because the pressure was getting on. I think there's so little research about women like you. Anyhow, they induced her mechanically. She ruptured her membrane spontaneously, then they left her alone and then she birthed her lovely daughter 12 hours later. Yay really.
Speaker 2:But you know, the thing is, women have to kind of stand up for their rights when coming to labor. So my first step is always educate yourself, find a like-minded community, have a look, not every hospital or every doctor is going to be bad. There's also, of course, a few people everywhere, also in the States, that would say well, enough is enough. And also advocate for the health of the whole nation, because if you have such bad trauma that you know the suicide rate is going up. Post-traumatic depression is going up.
Speaker 2:It has a huge impact on how we form societies, on how we actually live our life, and when you look into violence in societies, hdhs, whatever it is, all the different things you can look at it now from all angles. And I have to say, if you want a healthy, happy society that is healthy from the base up to the top, well you have to start the pregnancy, birth and the time after that is the very beginning and it starts with a positive birth experience and it starts with happy hormones. It starts with good bonding, it starts with that and if a society does not understand that, well then the society needs a little bit more education. That's really my opinion. You have a quote in your book.
Speaker 1:That resonates exactly with what we're talking about. Giving birth should be your greatest achievement, not your greatest fear, written by jane weidman, who's the founder of Birth Buddy, empowering woman. For some reason, there's been this transition where birth is feared and not revered, and we should be walking away stronger, more empowered, like I just did, that I can do anything.
Speaker 2:I agree. I had a lovely client from South Africa who was 14 years old First baby Came to Germany. Well, you know, moving from one country to another when you're highly pregnant and almost ready to give birth and finding a class, this is super stressful. But you know, she took my class with her husband and she birthed her baby, I think about four or five weeks later, and she came back to me and she said I really have to say my birth was wild, but I never felt so powerful in all my life. And I said well done, lori.
Speaker 1:That's exactly how every woman should feel talk to us a little bit about right now. You're not at bedside, you're not helping women in birth. You have a bigger goal. You have your birth courses, you have your book, you're speaking, you're educating, bringing your message about midwifery model of care and woman empowerment and making waves. Tell us a little bit about what you're doing now and how that is making an impact in the birth community more of a global impact.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks for that great question. Well, right now I talk about topics. First of all, I have different topics, so I talk about topics like how can we form a healthy baby inside the womb, being healthy ourselves on all levels, because, as I said to you, everything starts in the womb. That's our first classroom, so I really want to educate people more about the right supplements, nutrition, exercise, I mean. For me, the model is really like a pyramid. The bottom is your body, everything with the body Exercise, sleep, relaxation, acupuncture, massages, name it. Next, level up, your emotion who are you in the context of the people around you? Next level up is your mindset what are you telling yourself when no one is listening? And, of course, top level, it's the cherry on the top your spiritual belief. So we are going constantly in waves through all levels, and all levels support each other. So that's something I talk about, but I also talk about topics like female leadership and giving birth. How are these things connected? Because I think in the modern world, we need a different model. Sorry, the male model has done it for me. Thanks and no thanks. I think it's time for female leadership. And when we look into female leadership, well, I think you know, birth, giving birth, having babies, having a family must have some kind of place, must have some room. Yeah, we don't want to go on like just elbows out. Career it's fine to have a career, there's nothing wrong with that. But you know, you want to be able to have a career and a baby and a family, and you know we want women to lead in a female way, not in what I call cover up style. Yeah, I do not like these male women because they're not doing female leadership. So it's this kind of topic I talk about. I also talk, of course, about out of trauma back into happiness, because that is a big topic as well. So I have different topics and I go to different places and speak and I have big plans. I would love to give a TED Talk, I will write another book, but right now, in the next couple of weeks, I go to the States and I talk to many people that I meet, but in London I'm going to speak in a Global Women's Summit about those topics. Then in October you know it's different places where I go, but you know the world is full of boys.
Speaker 2:Of course, on Instagram, I talk about it. I talk about it some on YouTube, but I can't tell you. I think you know, at the moment we live in a time where you have information overload, can I say, especially with AI, now everyone is going to produce so much content, but it doesn't mean people don't produce wisdom. So I always tell my communities, when I teach them online or offline and I teach online or offline really both styles that you have to find yourself a couple of good experts and you have to find yourself a community, because just looking at something on Instagram is not going to do it. You need to be able to get real answers, and real answers are not just from a one of experience. You need someone that has a broad experience. I love mom's stories, don't get me wrong, and I share many of those with my community, but the other hand is it has two things. Okay, stephanie, and I think you will agree Once you've been at hundreds of thousands of births, you really get a deep insight on how birth works.
Speaker 2:Also the problems that can arrive and the solutions that you need. Just because you drive a car doesn't make you a mechanic or an engineer, and even I say, yes, I love your story when you gave birth to one, two or three babies, but still, what you tell me is your experience at your birth. It makes you an expert on your births, but it doesn't make you an expert on generally everything around birth. Because why on earth would I have spent 42 years digging around, learning, trying out, testing things? Okay, let's try that. Okay, that's not right. Okay, let's try that. And you know, that's what I'm saying. You can't read experience and you can't buy it and you can't replace it. It is something that, even that I love all modern technology, but you know the amount of hundreds of thousands of hours sitting with a woman through her birth observing this, observing that the smell, the sound, the change in face, the smell of, like, the change of how she acts, how she talks, everything. That's something you can truly only learn through experience and that makes you a real expert. And so my advice is to all those women out there share your stories, talk about what worked for you, but also truly find yourself an expert you trust, where you feel, hey, I have a voice, I'm heard and I can ask a question. And then this person might think dig in her big birth hopper of God knows how many births, god knows how many women and experience. Should we pull out something where she says, yeah right, I know something and if not, I'll dig even deeper? That is my advice. You thought that was amazing advice.
Speaker 2:It took me 42 years, from 20 to 62. I have to laugh. You know, when I was young I had a teeth over 60, in her 60s with gray hair, but she's really old. And now I think, yeah right, jutta, you know, put the finger on your own nose, how old are you? Oh, yeah, right, 62. And you know, all my clients, of course, are in their 30s, some are in their 40s. But you know, when I have interns that think about becoming midwives in their 20s, I always say, gosh, I must look really old to you. But don't worry, I swing my legs because I'm dynamic pregnancy yoga and, trust me, I'll have more power. But you know, I have to say and I want to say that to all of you don't let people stop you from feeling good, right. Don't let people stop you from finding help if you need Okay, if there's a problem.
Speaker 2:I met a woman here in my yoga class and she came for a one-to-one consultation. She's only 13 weeks and when I started talking to her she got really kind of very strange and I thought what the heck is going on here. Then she burst out into tears and she said my friend gave birth and I said yeah, and then she said my friend killed herself. You know, it was her best friend. And I said to her I am so, so sorry. That should really never, never, ever happen, never. You know, that is terrible. I was so, was so upset, you know, and then of course there's so much going on. But, yeah, so you know, that's why I say if any of you needs help, if any of you feels down, please find help. And if any of your friends looks, you know, unhappy in the postnatal period, can't get out of bed, is crying or acts strangely, do not hesitate, go and get help. Please don't let women suffer, don't let them go down that route.
Speaker 1:That is so horrible, honestly, For women who are listening to the episode and they want to learn more about you and your work. How can they find you?
Speaker 2:You can find me everywhere. You can find me on LinkedIn with my name that you know. Stephanie will post Jutta Wohlbach. You can find me on Instagram. You find me well with a very small YouTube channel, midwife, and you can find me on elementsofbirthde. But if you Google me, you will always come out with all information my email, my WhatsApp number. Please don't call me three o'clock in the morning. I love to sleep, but people have. You know. I have a question. My answer was three o'clock in the morning. I have a question too. That's how people can connect with me. You can always get in touch with me through email. Yeah, of those channels, and you know, of course, I have a book, I have many things and also I work. Really I love working with people from all over the world and I usually find a solution, even if you live in a time zone that is not mine, because I travel a lot. So I would love you to get in touch with me.
Speaker 1:If anyone is interested in learning more about Utah, your work and what you're doing and the difference that you're making, reach out, because this has been a fabulous conversation. I've learned so much in my practice from your book Happy Birthing Days A Midwife's Secret to a Joyful, safe and Happy Birth, and really for maternal health care workers working in medical complexes it's a great read just to take the medical side apart and really bring in the holistic, natural, bring it back to what birth really is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a joyful moment. That's what it should be. Forgettable, that's really what it should be. Well, thanks, stephanie. Thanks so much for having me as a guest. I'm so glad we met Me too. We meet in person one day, I know that'd be fabulous.
Speaker 1:I would love that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it will happen. Maybe not in the next two weeks, but, yeah, I think we'll stay in touch and we'll meet. Then we have a nice cup of coffee and a chat. Yeah, okay, that sounds perfect. I love that. Thanks everyone, and thank you so much.
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