Run Your Race Podcast
When I first listened to David Goggins' book in 2019, I was hooked. If he could run 100 miles without training, I thought I could do it with training! It unlocked something in me, leading to my journey into ultramarathons. Since then, I've completed multiple 100- and 200-mile races, something I once thought impossible. This podcast aims to give you that same mindset shift. Each week, we interview elite endurance athletes to inspire you to believe more is possible and push yourself to the next level.
Run Your Race Podcast
#007: Joe Corcione - Running 100 Miles In 15 Hours and 28 Minutes (90+ Degree Heat)
What does it take to transform from being an unathletic kid into a formidable ultra runner? Join me, as I welcome Joe Corcione to the Run Your Race podcast. Joe's story is a heartfelt testament to resilience and personal growth. Once labeled unathletic, Joe now boasts impressive accomplishments in the ultra running world, including completing the Javelina 100 in a mere 15 hours and 28 minutes. Together, we navigate the winding paths of his journey—overcoming ADHD and the challenges that came with an early reliance on Adderall to become the remarkable runner and coach he is today.
Throughout our conversation, Joe shares the lessons he's learned from the grueling world of ultra marathons. We explore the balance of stress and recovery in training, the power of perseverance, and the importance of running your own race. With personal anecdotes and practical strategies, Joe opens up about his experiences at the Javelina event, the psychological fortitude necessary for endurance racing, and how setting up training camps and acclimating to heat played crucial roles in his preparation. His insights emphasize the significance of pacing oneself and focusing on personal goals rather than external competition, leading to fulfilling achievements.
In our episode, we also dive into the technicalities of optimizing race performance, from fueling and hydration strategies to recovery techniques that enhance endurance. Joe gives us a glimpse into his podcast, Everyday Ultra, and shares his expertise as a coach, always stressing the importance of continuous improvement. Whether you’re an aspiring ultra runner or simply intrigued by the transformative power of endurance sports, this episode is packed with actionable insights that will inspire you to conquer your own challenges, both on and off the trail.
You can find Joe here...
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/joecorcione/
Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/everyday-ultra/id1600327047
Okay, what is up guys? Welcome back to another episode of the Run your Race podcast. I'm your host, pierre Chow, and I'm very excited for this one. This is one of my I would say newest best friends. We have just really got connected over the last year. We've gone back and forth on social media but had an amazing time together in Leadville, and he is one of the most amazing people that I know in the ultra running scene, and I'm not just saying that because he's on this right now. He has over 20 ultra finishes. He's the host of the Everyday Ultra podcast. He has an amazing ultra running company, coaching company, helping other athletes crush their races, and recently he ran the Javelina 100 in Arizona, which I believe the temperatures were over 90 degrees, and he did it in 15 hours and 28 minutes. Now, if you don't have context, for a hundred mile races under 24 hours is considered really good, in 15 hours and 28 minutes is unheard of, and so you guys, get ready. This can be a really great episode. Joe C Corcion, welcome to the show, man.
Speaker 2:Oh, pierce, first of all, thank you for having me and second of all, man, I agree with that.
Speaker 2:You've been one of my best friends in the trail running community.
Speaker 2:I mean, for anyone listening, I think anyone can relate to this is when you find someone who just clicks with you and you can have conversations for hours and we together we were both crewing and pacing a friend we probably spent, we spent days together Like I mean we we were almost every waking minute like together, but it was so cool Cause we never got like, we never had a dull in a conversation, we just kept learning about each other.
Speaker 2:We had a lot of laughs, we had a lot of good adventures and, man, like I can truly say I'm a better person because I know you and for everyone listening to this podcast, like Pierce is the kind of guy you want to learn from and surround yourself with, not just because he's a great guy, but he knows how to give and serve and super knowledgeable but also super kind and compassionate. So I'm not just saying that because you're my friend man, but also because, like that's who you are as a person and I had that in the very first time we met. So grateful to be one of your new best friends. I can say the same and I'm stoked to be here, man.
Speaker 1:Let's go. Well, everyone, you're about to be ready to run through a wall by the end of the show. It's going to be great. Now we're going to dive into 100-mile races, hot races, training for that, nutrition, for that, all those topics. But Joe has a very unique background and a really inspiring story. And so, joe, I wanted you to tell the listeners really how you got into ultra running. And let's start there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a hundred percent. Thank you so much for that. Yeah, you know, I think anytime someone hears kind of like the intro that you just said fast, 100 mile time, doing all these races, 20 ultra finishes it can be really easy to assume that, okay, this person probably has been running his whole life. He was maybe competitive in college and high school and everything like that too. And my background is kind of unique in that I did not even not only run in high school and college, I didn't even play sports. The only sport that I played was golf and I always say I argue that that's a sport and I can say that because I play golf, but none of the traditional athletic kind of sports or anything like that too.
Speaker 2:And a lot of that stem from insecurity because I wasn't born genetically athletic. I wasn't born genetically gifted at being fast or strong or any of those things as well, and I was always picked last in every single pickup game that we had in high school. People would throw footballs at me and laugh at me because I would look so weird trying to catch a football. I was made fun of for being unathletic, so I never really put myself in those situations because I had that belief that, because I wasn't born athletic, that's how I was going to be for the rest of my life. So, therefore, sports wasn't for me or physical activity necessarily wasn't for me. Not only that, I mean, I just had that approach in life in general. Right, I looked at a lot of the things that I wasn't good at. I wasn't naturally a confident person. I wasn't naturally, you know, someone who is, you know, very, very smart or any of these things too. And one of the things that I wasn't naturally good at was focusing and concentrating, because I got diagnosed with ADHD when I was in first grade. Now, with that, I've been prescribed the Naderol since first grade and I'll tell you this, like as a kid, that helped me to get through it, helped me to stay focused, to help me, to you know, perform in class, helped me to be less impulsive.
Speaker 2:But the issue was I had this underlying insecurity about myself to say, wow, I'm only functional in my day to day and in society because I'm taking this pill and without this pill I am nothing and I never. As a kid I wasn't really self-aware to understand that, but I know subconsciously that was in the back of my mind because, fast forward to college, when I go to my doctor and we kind of do all the tests that you have to do when you're, you know, taking Adderall year by year to make sure nothing's getting messed up, the doctors told me they were like you don't need to take this anymore, you can learn how to do this yourself. And I remember saying to the doctor I cannot, I have to keep taking it because that's the way I am. And that's when I realized one thing I realized that insecurity and I realized that I was addicted to this thing.
Speaker 2:And so, on top of that too, I mean, I was drinking a lot of alcohol, taking a lot of hard drugs, because, again, I wasn't born the confident person, I wasn't born the charismatic person. But, man, you load me up with six beers and some vodka shots and I can talk to anyone and I'm the life of the party, right. So all of these things just kind of snowballed over the years and it really just came crashing to a head where you know.
Speaker 1:I left my job. I was alone. When was this real quick? Just get some context on the timeline how old were you? What year?
Speaker 2:Context on the timeline. How old were you? What year? Yeah, so this was. I think it was about 23 or so, and this was 2020, 2018. Sorry, 2018. So 2018. And yeah, I just left my job on Wall Street.
Speaker 2:At the time, I moved back in with my parents. I was lying on the floor of my childhood room in my parents' house, looking up at the ceiling and thinking like I need to change something. And a lot of times people ask what was the moment, what was the breaking point? And I always say that for most people, there is no moment or breaking point. It's these small cracks over time that when you do have one crack, it just shatters the entire thing. And I think I just had all these cracks for a while, and I was in this moment and I took a look around and I said what have I done? Cracks for a while. And I was in this moment and I took a look around and I said what have I done? And so I knew that I was really just someone who did not like myself and believed that I was a person who could be capable of great things, but I knew the biggest block for that was being sober, or trying to get sober. So, to say so, I went to Google, opened up my computer and I typed in how to get sober. That was literally what I did and the common theme between all of it was exercise. Now I wasn't going to go into a gym because I knew there's people, other people, around and I was like people are going to make fun of me, I don't want to be in the gym, no-transcript. And I ran 0.3 miles. And then the next day I ran 0.35 and started to build up slowly and slowly.
Speaker 2:And although I didn't realize at a time, the moment I realized this was when I did my very first 5K. I did my very first 5K. It it was in the hills of Vermont and I remember the next day I could barely walk. Man, like I was hobbling around and everything. So for anyone listening, it's like this guy did a hundred miles. Man, I could barely walk after my first 5k.
Speaker 2:And there was something just so freeing about that. It was like whoa, like I was someone who wasn't born a runner, born athletic, and I turned myself into someone who was a runner, who just completed this 5k. If I can transform that, what else can I do in my life? And so I went from 5k to 10k to half marathon to marathon, and along that journey this is 2019 along that journey in November of 2019 is when the last day I took Adderall was actually in a few days from now. Last day I took Adderall and since then I've been sober ever since.
Speaker 2:So, um, but the so my point is is, you know, I keep going these further distance. Since then, I've done, you know, 50 K, 50 miler, a hundred miler, 250 miler, like I've done all these things too. But the whole reason why I keep going is because I try to keep enforcing in my mind that where you are now does not define where you're going to be in the future or who you're going to be. And no matter who you are today, if you're not that person, you can become that person as long as you're willing to learn and put in the work. And so for me, like that's been the ethos of my whole life, whether it was going from, you know, someone who's addicted to drugs to completely sober, whether it was someone who was unathletic to ultra runner, where it was someone who, like again, like I, was destined to be a nine to five corporate person, which there's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 2:But my point is today, you know a business owner with two employees and you know we just hit record revenue last month and it's like and again, I don't say this to brag, I say this to say this is all things that I built. And if you're sitting here thinking I want to build a family Like you, can become that person as long as you're willing to learn and do the work, because I'm human and you're listening right now. You're human too, and the human condition is to adapt, and the only way you can do that is if you learn and put in the work. So that's been the whole ethos of the journey, right there.
Speaker 1:Man. That's amazing, dude. This podcast is already an answer to the prayer that I prayed before it, that it would be the straw that broke the camel's back into transformation, into meaning taking someone listening to this and being the thing that pushes them over the edge to change their life. And I think Joe's such a great picture of that. When it comes to you sharing the story about thinking you needed Adderall, thinking you needed alcohol and drugs to be able to be a charismatic person, when in reality you're like I just want to be around Joe, like he's so joyful and like so, so good with people and all of these things, but then also to think there's so much value in what you shared about you don't have to be an quote unquote athlete. You don't have to have been good at sports. You don't have to have been good in the weight room to be a great runner, and that's one of the real cool things. And then also, running is so tangible. It's such a good vehicle for you to be able to solidify in your mind that you can change your reality by doing the hard thing. It's like you can change who you are. You can become someone athletic by running, bit by bit, every single day. So I think that's such great encouragement to people listening to this.
Speaker 1:Joe, now let me ask you this, because I know you've had some sort of like a history with Javelina 100. You've done it a couple years in a row. What kept you coming back? And ultimately, let's start here why did you decide to do it the first time and what has kept you coming back? And ultimately, let's start here why did you decide to do it the first time and what has kept you coming back?
Speaker 2:Yeah for sure. So this was my third year at Javelina. And it's so funny because when I first started doing races I would have told you I was like I'm the kind of guy who's a one and done, like, once I've experienced it I'm going to move on. And here I am, you know, three years later, doing this race three times and maybe considering doing it next year too. I don't know yet.
Speaker 2:But my where I selected this race, so kind of going back to the concept of like always pushing you know my limits and what I could do. So at the time I just finished my very first a hundred miler it was the Zion 100. And uh, at 100. And at the time, like it was awesome and I was just so stoked at the fact that I could run a hundred miles. I remember the first time I heard about a hundred miles being born to run and I was like what the heck could I ever do that, like is that even possible? And then gained to the point where it's like I had done it and I really started to kind of push the dial on this hypothesis and I shouldn't say hypothesis, it's fact of that humans can adapt and be who they want to be. So I really sat down and thought about it. I said, okay, well, what can I do to really push this to the extreme? So I said, okay, well, what I can do is I can try to run a hundred miles really fast. Now, I knew that, like you know, I could probably do that on any course or anything like that too, but Havalina was a fast course. But then I said, okay, well, what if I actually try to maybe win one of these things, right? And I said, okay, like, that's cool, like, but I can probably sign up for a local race, and you know, where there's not a lot of people and not a lot of fit people, of course, I can just probably go out and win it. What if I try to win one of these races that have some of the best athletes and ultra runners in the world? And that's when I was like, whoa, that would be cool.
Speaker 2:And again, it's not about, like me being on the podium or trying to beat all these people. Again, it's about trying to tell this story, this narrative, and trying to push this again like fact as far as it could be Right. Because, like I thought about it, I was like how cool and how inspirational of a thing for not just me but people looking out is if a guy who's never ran most of his life picked up running for only several years and then all of a sudden goes out and has a great performance at one of the most competitive ultra marathons in the United States. I wanted to send that message, write that story and really push the human condition further, and so for me, that's why Javelina came to it. So I wanted to do Javelina and really wanted to do well, and so I wanted to get a golden ticket. That was like my goal for pretty much the first year. And a golden ticket for those who aren't familiar is if you place top two in your gender, you get an automatic entry into the Western States 100, which is a very, very hard race to get into, but also the most competitive 100 miler in the United States. Now, with these golden ticket races, you have the best of the best ultra marathoners coming out, because everybody wants those golden tickets, and so that's why these races are so competitive and Javelina is a golden ticket race.
Speaker 2:So I remember like I trained my fricking butt off for that race. I trained my butt off for that race. I that um might've been like some of the hardest I've ever worked in a training block. And the very first year, at Javelina 100, I ended up getting 10th place and ran 1636. Now a lot of people were like are you bummed, are you disappointed? And I was like no, like 10th place. Like yeah, I was going for a golden ticket but I got 10th place. And I always think about to that again. That same scene where I was in my parents' house like looking at the ceiling and being like that kid couldn't even run a mile. And here I am like 10th place at 100 miles.
Speaker 2:Again, not to brag again, to like be like that's progress and that's a good thing for people to think about. It's like, even if you don't get your North Star goal, as long as you've made progress, that is something to be stoked and rewarded about. And so I was just fired up and stoked be stoked and rewarded about. And so I was just fired up and stoked and I knew I was like man, if I go another year of this and I come back next year, I can do even better. So I remember I went next year, I signed it up again and I was like I want to keep going for this goal and keep going better. And, man, it's only up from here. It's going to be great.
Speaker 2:And I trained harder, I was objectively fitter from like a pace perspective, fitness perspective, everything like that and come Javelina 2022 or sorry, 2023, I ended up doing worse 17, 06, 15th place, and it shattered me. Man, that was hard. That was really really hard, because just as much as progress can be fulfilling, regression is equally as painful, and in that moment I was like I regressed. Oh my gosh, I couldn't believe it. But I remember telling myself one thing, and that success isn't linear.
Speaker 2:I remember, on my sobriety journey, the first time I tried to go sober. The first time I tried to go sober, I went two days and the first day was great. I felt amazing. I felt on top of the world. I was like I'm going to do this thing. And then the second day, I got the headaches. I was starting to feel sick, I got chills, like my body just started to rebel. And what did I do? I grabbed the pill and I took it, and so at that moment, I was worse than what I was the day before.
Speaker 2:But then I look at where I am today and I realize that it's like oh, success isn't linear. I always think about like a stock chart. Right, if you look at the S&P 500 over years, that thing is up into the right line up. But if you zoom in, especially on years like 2008, other years of the depression and stuff, it's a big downfall but over time it corrects itself and goes up. So I told myself success was linear and I wasn't going to come back the year after. But I said, you know what? I need to come back again because I need to do better, not just on this year but the first year, and get that chart in the right direction again. And that was the intention going into this year.
Speaker 1:Let's go. So you did it. Which year was your first? And then what years have you done it?
Speaker 2:So 22 was the first year, then 23 and then 24. So three years in a row.
Speaker 1:Okay, wow, and so, knowing it, that you want to do better than your first year and you didn't do as good your second year, so you want to come back. You adjust your approach. What were some of the main differences in your approach this year than years past?
Speaker 2:Yeah for sure. So there's like a technical standpoint of it and then there's like the mental kind of part of it. So I'll talk about like the technical stuff first and like in terms of the training. So anytime you know, as a coach myself, I always like to when athletes come and they say like hey, I want to get better at a race, I want to improve, I want to make progress in a certain area, I always say like look at the race or training blocks or anything like that and really do an audit and start to think about the different things that went well, the different things that didn't go well and the things that you want to change in training going forward.
Speaker 2:So I looked at myself over the last two years and the things that always went well, even on both years, was nutrition. Nutrition always went well, heat management always went well. That's something that never really bothered me as much and those were really two things that really helped a lot. And even so, I think the third thing, my fitness, like my overall aerobic fitness and being able to, you know, have my engine keep going for long periods of time like that never really was my limiter. So I looked at those three things and said, okay, those three things are great. So therefore I'm not going to look at it, because if you don't take that reflective process, sometimes people can like keep trying to work on the strengths and then neglect the weaknesses and those areas of opportunities that's really going to give them the big thing, right? So, um, that's why I always say, like, go through this audit process. So I saw those things went well and I thought about, okay, what are the things that didn't go well?
Speaker 2:And I thought about the first two years at Javelina and both years, both races in the second loop, so after the second loop. So for those who aren't familiar with Javelina, it's a five loop course in the desert. The first loop's the longest, at 22, and the rest are 19.4. So there's five loops total. So by the time you get done with loop two, you're getting into the hottest part of the day, which this year, yeah, it was 98 degrees at the high 98. Hottest javelina ever, ever, and this race has been around for 20 plus years. But anyways, you get done with loop two. You're about to go on loop three. It's the hottest part. You don't have pacers yet. It's the last loop without pacers. You're already 40 plus miles into the game. It is a tough place to be.
Speaker 2:And so for me, over the past two years, at mile 40, my legs were so incredibly sore. I mean like, like really sore. I'm not just talking about just a little bit sore, I mean like they were like I would say like eight out of 10 on the pain scale, not injury wise, but soreness wise. And I went 60 miles both years with that kind of soreness in my legs. Now, of course, I'm going slower and mentally that is a hard thing to do. And so I saw that and I said, well, what the heck is the problem here? Why do I keep getting sore at mile 40? And I realized I looked at all my long runs and I realized that I hadn't been doing runs longer than that point in the race. So it seems obvious, but it is. You know, a part where it's like, oh well, you know, you hit that point in the race and you start to get sore. It's because your body hasn't been conditioned enough to go to that place. And so for me I said, okay, um, I need to do runs that are about that same point of length or a little bit longer of where my muscles get sore and I also need to increase overall volume during the week because that's going to help build durability.
Speaker 2:So a lot of times a lot of people think about speed in an ultra marathon or just running in general. They're like I want to get faster and all they focus on is pace. Right, what's my pace? How fast can I have a mile? What are my easy runs at? And I would say you're missing a huge piece of the puzzle and that is the durability piece, because I always say let's just take two runners, right. Let's take one runner whose easy pace is maybe nine minutes per mile and you have another runner whose easy pace is seven 30 minutes per mile. If that person who's a nine, nine or nine, 30 pace minute per mile can hold that nine 30 for 80, 85 miles and then dips down a little bit towards the end, versus the seven 30 person who can maybe only hold that for 20 miles, and then all of a sudden they get really, really sore and they start dipping early More times than not, that person who is objectively slower from a pace perspective might run a faster ultra than the person who can rip seven thirties.
Speaker 2:That's just a matter of their legs holding up. It's fatigue resistance, durability. So for me, I knew I had the fitness but I didn't have the durability. So that's what I needed to build and that comes with a lot of high volume and it comes with a lot of running, really long runs. So I would do multiple runs but I would run longer than 40 miles and then the next day I would run 20 miles to simulate that loop three problem that I always kind of thought about. So the biggest thing for me was just implementing durability and making sure that was on track. So that was one big piece. The second big piece was-.
Speaker 1:Wait before we get into that can I?
Speaker 1:ask you a question on that. 100%, I think this is so good and, uh, you know you're you're an experienced ultra runner. You built up this fatigue resistance. Um, how often were you doing these really long efforts? Because, um, you know, ultra running is a game of of how much can volume can you put on your body to stress it, but not overdo it so that you're recovering too long, taking too long to recover, Like I always tell a lot of people, like you know, to run a hundred miles, you don't have to do, you know, 70, 80 miles in your training. You typically don't do that at one go, but you're right, I do think it's really valuable to get in those really long runs. So so, how are you balancing that high volume with making sure that you're resting enough?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a great question. So, and I a hundred percent agree and I always say this too, cause you know, when people ask me how do I build durable, I say more volume and more running, but it's not that easy. I think the biggest thing to your point is, like you need to have that recovery. There is zero, like when you think about progress and adaptation in the body. It's a two prong equation. So you have stress and you have rest. So stress is the training, it's the load that you put on your muscles, the load that you put in your body, the miles you put on. That is stress, and most of the time we think about training. That's all we think we need. But the thing is you also need rest, because think about all the time with weight lifting, right, when you're lifting weights, what's happening? You're tearing the muscle and when that and when that muscle is torn, guess what? It's actually weaker. So when you're lifting weights, it's not the lifting weights that's actually making you stronger, it's the next day when that muscle's actually repairing itself to get stronger. The same thing is true with your aerobic fitness, your running, your durability, everything like that. So if your rest is out of whack relative to your stress, you're going to not make any progress. And that's why some people they try to emulate the professional runners and they try to run a hundred, 110, 120 miles a week, which may be okay for them, but the problem is they cut back on sleep, they cut back on recovery. Maybe their body's just not recovering as much and they're wondering why am I not making progress or why do I feel like crap? It's because the stress-rest balance is out of whack and you need to get that at equilibrium. So I always say if you can safely build to the point of volume which is another thing you have to safely build into it. You can't just go from like 40 miles a week to 100, or else you're going to get one-way ticket to the PT office. But in the end of the day, if you can safely build up your volume, I always say you want to build to the peak where you are able to have volume without sacrificing sleep or recovery time or making it more stressful on you.
Speaker 2:Psychological stress that's another factor. So like, for example, if you have kids and like you get really stressed out by not being around them and maybe you're sleeping okay, but like you're not hanging out time with the kids and everything like that too, and that's causing you psychological stress. That is also a point too, because psychological stress actually adds even more stress and less recovery into your body. So I always say you want to try to find that peak. For me Now there were some weeks, you know, I was traveling, you know I've seen you many times at Loveville, all that kind of stuff traveling or had like obligations or things like that too where I would hit that peak if I was there.
Speaker 2:Now the key thing in that aspect is that doesn't mean that you're screwed and you can't add volume. There's a really good phenomenon and it's all around condensing your volume. So like, let's just say you have a weekly volume cap of 13 hours and at that point, past 13 hours, you're skipping sleep, you're skimping on priorities, it's more stressful for you, like that's your cap and you're like I want to build durability. Well, the magic way to do that is to, in those 13 hours, make your long runs longer and your shorter runs shorter. Because what studies show is that if you do that, then you're still going to simulate the effect of building more volume without actually adding volume. Because I always say this if you have two three hour runs, that's going to be easier on your body than one six hour run. So therefore, because of that phenomenon, you're going to get the extra stress in your body and the durability, especially because you're doing these longer sessions that are, you know, really really long.
Speaker 2:So for me to answer your question, like, how did I, how often were I doing these big efforts? It would really depend on, like, my schedule and if I had to condense or if I could build. So if I had to condense, that's usually where I would have my longer efforts. So like, for example, my biggest week was 120 miles per week, um, but, um, it was only like one hour longer that I think that my longest time on feet session, or longest time on feet week, um, but I did like very small runs during the week and then I condensed a ton of my volume on that Saturday, um, so that kind of helped too, whereas, like some weeks, I was really crunched for time too even so, and I was doing like 18 miles, 18 miles, 20 miles, 21 miles, and like my longest run that week was 25, but like I'm doing day after day after day of these like really long kind of mileage.
Speaker 2:So you kind of got to like fit in with your schedule and I kind of did do the ebbs and flows and everything like that. But you always got to think one concept and that is progression. If you just keep doing the same thing week after week, your body's going to adapt. So whether it's progressing by condensing your volume, making your long run longer, maybe you're doing back to back hard workouts that's a way to progress. You always got to have that element of progression with durability, because you need to stimulate your body to get pushed, to get the adaptation you're looking for, aka fatigue resistance.
Speaker 1:That's really good. Now tell us about, uh, what you do as far as like training camps, cause I know you like to have like a peak week training. It's almost like a training camp three days. Did you do one of those for this or multiple? What did that look?
Speaker 2:like yeah, so I did a training camp for this race. So I love training camps. I think they are an amazing thing to do, and when people are training camps, they're like when do I have to, like, pay for this or anything? It's like no, like you can do this in your backyard, you can do this wherever. Um, but a training camp is basically like I like to think about it as like dress rehearsal for your specific race, so it's trying to really simulate race conditions or the thing that you are trying to improve on as much as possible during that specific training block. So for hobbling, I'll give you an example Like I'm blessed enough that I live, you know, 45 minutes away from the course.
Speaker 2:So I live in Phoenix, it's just outside of Scottsdale, arizona, so the course was here too. So, and even so, I always say, like if you have the means and the availability to do so, if you can travel out to the course for your training camp, that's always the best thing to do, because you get the most specific data and practice and application out there of what you're trying to do. But if not, you can find a similar trail or maybe even travel to a location that's a little bit similar, like I have a buddy find a similar trail or maybe even travel to a location. That's a little bit similar, like I have a buddy, killian Korth. He lives in Colorado and when he was training out for Cocodona he wasn't on like the actual course but he was doing some other stuff in Arizona or even out in Utah. That was very similar terrain but still similar kind of principle. So it doesn't have to be exactly one-to-one, but basically over, I like to say, training camp, at least two days. You can even go up to four or five days depending on like how much time and availability you have. The longer the race, the longer the camp's going to be.
Speaker 2:But what you want to do is you want to set up a dress rehearsal where, again, you're trying to test what you've been looking for or what you're trying to get practice on in your training. So for Javelina for me again, the loop three problem was being able to feel strong after running 40, 60 miles. So what I did over two days was that I went on the Javelina course and day one I was like I'm going to run 40 miles and that's going to be two loops onto there as well. Now, you made a good point before as a coach and even just, you know, as just a good running principle. It's like if you're running 100 miles, you shouldn't be running 70, 80 miles as a long run. In training I usually like to say a cap can be like a hundred K, like a hundred K is probably the cap and for most people it really should be 50 miles.
Speaker 1:Um, but from the race. Do you like to do that?
Speaker 2:It depends on, like, how well the person recovers and like what they're kind of uh. So, for example, if it's their first a hundred K and they're going the furthest, I usually like to have that a month, because if it is the longest that they've ever gone, you need to be wary of recovery time, whereas if you have run a hundred K before, I'm more okay doing that maybe three to two weeks before the race, cause as long as you know that, you can recover pretty quickly from that. So that's always what I like to say, but longest effort either three weeks before or four weeks before. So for me the training camp was three weeks before the race itself and so, um, and that was my longest. Well, actually, no, my longest long run was 45 miles, but I didn't run anything the next day, which comes into the training camp. I did 40 miles day one and then 24 miles the next day, and the whole thing that I was trying to test was like okay, can I go to loop four and feel like I can run strong at the end? By the way, on top of that it's on the course, it was 110 degrees that weekend. That was unplanned. It is not that hot usually at that time of year, but I was like, great, well, if I can nail it in this temperatures, then I know that Javelina is guaranteed to be cooler. So therefore, I can have some good strategies on that, and I'm also going to practice all the things I'm going to do on race day right Gear, nutrition, hydration, aid station, transitions, all this kind of stuff as well, so I can practice it as much as possible. So, if you're designing a training camp for yourself, though, like, think of it as as close as possible to the gear you're going to be wearing, to the nutrition you're going to be eating, set up aid stations.
Speaker 2:If you're doing 200 miles training and you're trying to do a 200 mile training camp, you should try to take dirt naps. You should try to do it on less sleep. You should try to maybe go through the night, right. Whatever those things that you're looking to get practice on, those are things you're trying to emulate. And so in that moment, right, I did the 40 miles and it was super, super hot. I remember at the end of it I was like I'm hot but my legs feel really is great. And then the next day I ran an even faster pace at 24 miles in similar conditions. And that's when I was like, yeah, like I'm ready to go for this. And let's just say you do a training camp and maybe you're not ready to go. Or maybe let's just say, what if I did that scenario and I wasn't in that, then it's like, okay, well, now at least I still have some time to maybe work on it and training a little bit to adapt. But at that point I was like I'm ready to go.
Speaker 2:And that's why I think training camps are so great, because not only do you practice things but they can be confidence building moments for you to remember at the race. So, for example, when I was in Javelina and I had finished loop two, what was I thinking about? I was thinking about that training camp. I was like I've done this before and confidence is built by doing the things that you say you're going to do, not just trying to hype yourself up. So if you create those experiences in the training camp, you bring it back in the middle of the race and you're like I've done this before, I can rock this. I'm confident, ready to go. And I was most confident going to that loop three than I've ever been before in my life nugget of wisdom in that confidence is not built by hyping yourself up or affirmations.
Speaker 1:It's built by doing the training camps with your gear, your hydration, your fueling, everything very specific to how you're going to do it during the race, because you've practiced for before. You're not guessing. You're not trying to figure it out in the moment. You've planned for it, you've prepared. Guessing You're not trying to figure it out in the moment, you've planned for it, you've prepared. That's really good, joe. Now, with that, this is just a real quick question. So that training camp was two days or three days? That was two days, balloons going, let's go.
Speaker 2:Look at that, the training camp. That's what it was like. It was like a celebration with the balloons. So it was two days. Yeah, I would have done three days, but we actually it was awesome, I we had them all fly out and because people were mostly flying in on Friday, we just did a two days. But I like three days for a hundred mile training camps because think about it like this Like if your body can handle it, you can get close to a hundred miles over three days. Right, you can do 50 K, 20 miles, maybe another 50 K, and then you rack up 70, 75 miles in a weekend and it's like, okay, yeah, you're not going to run that in one shot, as we kind of discussed, but you still get it in three days and like that's a pretty good confidence builder. So for this one it was two days, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's really good. Um, now, one thing I don't want to just breeze by is the fact that you said it was 110 degrees in that training camp, and you know cooling is extremely important for these hot races, especially races like that, races like Badwater. I was at Miami this last month. Cooling is so important for that. You know how did you keep yourself cool throughout the race? What were some of the methods you used?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I always say it starts even before the race. It starts even before the race and this is even more important than I would argue like taking care of yourself during the race, and that is getting heat acclimated. So, um, heat acclimation, I think it's one of the most misunderstood and also misabused things in training, because I remember the first time I'd ever trained for Javelina, I was working with my coach at the time, zach Bitter, who is he's gotten the course record um, fastest a hundred mile time in the world at one point, like I mean, he, uh, he like was an expert and he used to live in Phoenix too, which is where I lived, so he knew the hot temperatures and I remember going to him the first year was Javelina. I was like dude, like I'm so grateful I live in Phoenix because I'm going to run every single run that I'm doing in the 110 degree heat. So that way at Javelina it's going to feel cool to me. And he was like absolutely do not do that. And I was like why? Like it just makes so much sense. Like the more that I run into the heat, the better I'm going to get at it. And he goes no, actually, the more you run in the heat, the worse you mean he goes.
Speaker 2:Well, heat is such a huge stress on the body first and foremost. So heat is a very, very huge stress on the body. So think about it like this. I think everybody here who's ran in the summer can probably relate to this. You have your paces in the winter when it's nice and cool and you get the good thing. Then all of a sudden, summer comes around and that same pace that you've been trying to hit feels way harder. So that is literally because it is hotter outside and your body's working to cool you down more. So therefore, it's more stress being put on your body and there's more resources being utilized. So heat has a lot of stress. So if you do all of your runs in these super hot temperatures remember the equation I said before rest and stress. Right now you are really significantly increasing the stress way more than the rest and you can actually lead to deep performance, burn performance, burnout, injury risk, so tons of other things as well.
Speaker 2:So if that's the case, if we're not supposed to run in the heat as much as possible, how do we become heat acclimated? Well, guess what? It's simple and it's easy, and studies show that you really only need seven to 10 days of accumulative heat adaptation to get full adaptation to heat in the middle of hot races. And guess what? Because that stuff really only like. So heat acclimation only needs seven to 10 days. And there's also studies that show that if you go four days without re-acclimating or keeping maintenance, it actually is going to decay pretty quickly anywhere between 10 to 20%. So that's a quick decay. So what does that mean? Seven to 10 days, quick decay. You put it in the taper period and guess what? It works even better now because increased stress on the body. But guess what? If you're tapering right, your volume's lower. So now you're getting the heat acclimation close to the race, you're not stressing out your body and you're going to be right into the mode where you're going to be heat acclimated.
Speaker 2:So for seven to 10 days I always say in a row before the race, excluding the two days before your race what you're going to want to do is one of two options. First option if you have access to a dry sauna, that's the best option. You're going to go for your run and within 30 minutes hop into that dry sauna and sit there for about 30 minutes. Now, if it's not as hot and you can't control it, maybe you're at a gym or something you really want to wait until. You're like feeling like you're sweating bullets because you need to raise your core temperature, and that's one of the reasons why it's better to do it after your run, because when you do it after your run, your heart rate's already elevated. So therefore, you're like pre-warming yourself before you're going in there and also, too, you're not putting the stress on your body as much by running in the heat. You know what I mean. So, in the end of the day, like you're getting the stress on your body afterwards and you're pre-warming yourself so you don't have to sit in the sauna for too long and you're getting that adaptation effect. And you do that for seven to 10 days, excluding the two days before your race. So like, for example, if you're thinking about your races on Saturday, and then you would be basically, you know, wanting to do it at the very least, like the Tuesday or the Wednesday before right, seven to 10 days. If you do it to 10, that's like that's the optimal amount. Seven is like the baseline. So if you can only get seven, great. If you can 10, awesome. So have that in there too. So that's what you do.
Speaker 2:If you don't have access to a sauna, then you're going to want to do what the wrestling coaches all love, like in high school, is get on that sweatsuit and get out and run in those temperatures. Now you got to be careful with this because it can be increased stress, because now you're doing it while you're running, but again you want to do it on easy runs, layer up, bundle up and again you want to leave that run feeling like you're hot, like feeling like you are sweating, like you are really, really hot. It's not as much of an ideal option because it is more stress on the body and studies show that dry sauna is more effective. But those are for the people who maybe don't have access to a sauna or can't get to it too. But you do that for seven to 10 days. It's great. So that's the pre and then during the race, it's a little bit more simple.
Speaker 2:Now you got to determine if you're dry heat or humidity, for hobbling in a specific purposes is a dry heat. So therefore, things evaporate. So why do we sweat as humans? We sweat as humans because it's an evolutionary response. When that water comes on our skin, it evaporates off and the evaporation is what leads to cooling in our body. So when water evaporates off your skin, it cools you down, dousing yourself to the high heavens. I mean, you were taking a sponge, you were over there. So if you look at Javelina, if you look at the pictures, it looks like a wet t-shirt contest, because they literally just have people just soaking in water the entire time because it's a good way to stay cool.
Speaker 2:On top of that as well, you want to have ice apparatus, so ice bandanas. I had a bandana with an ice pouch that you can shove ice in there and that keeps ice around your neck, which can really, really feel nice and cool, and it melts as a steady drip along the way, helping to keep you wet. I had arm sleeves, so I would wet the arm sleeves and put ice in there and actually shows that topical cooling works best when it's over a large surface area. So like, for example, like a lot of people think, oh, I need to hit my pressure points or my core and it's like no, the more skin that you hit, the cooler you're going to be, cause again the evaporation effect. So that's what you do too, and then I would also put ice even in the middle of my shirt.
Speaker 2:I would tuck my shirt in and like put it in my waistband. I would put like ice down my shirt, um, and just be like in this cool mode the entire time and I would say, like you stay wet, you stay cool out there, so you want to stay wet, stay iced. And anyone who doesn't do that at Javelina is in for a bad race. So you're heat acclimated, you're staying wet out there, and that's the formula to stay cool at Javelina. And this year, at 98 degrees, I didn't feel hot once.
Speaker 1:That's crazy. That's incredible. That's a sign of a great strategy implemented before the race and during the race. One quick detail I want to make sure we get is you're doing the sauna seven to 10 days leading up, not the two days before the race. That Thursday, friday, before Saturday race, and then, um, how long are you getting in the sauna after your runs when you're already a little bit hot? Is that like 20 to 30 minutes there?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it can be anywhere between 15 to 30. And I say it would really just depend on, like, how hot the sauna is. If you have control of the temperature, jack that thing up and like you can only have to be there for like 15 minutes, cause what you're trying to do is elicit that response. So if you're feeling like incredibly hot at 15 minutes, like there, I would use a sauna at my gym, so I didn't have control. There were some days me and my wife would sit in the sauna and we'd be like what is going on? It's so hot. And then there were some days where, you know, maybe the temperature was a little off, it was just warming up, where I would stay in a little bit longer because it took some time. So usually it's like 15 to 30 minutes. But you want to like really gauge that based on like are you feeling hot and are you getting that response you're looking for.
Speaker 1:Got it. That's good stuff. Now, when it comes to fueling yourself for this I know you were practicing, you know your gut, training your gut to ingest more carbs. What did your fueling strategy end up looking like for Javelina?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I was doing a hundred grams of carbohydrates an hour, a hundred grams of carbohydrates an hour, and you know, I think there's a renaissance going on in ultra running and this is a Renaissance that I think really. I mean, we're just ripping it off from cyclists. Cyclists have been doing this for years and years and years and, um, I think there's just more research on cyclists than there is ultra runners, Um, but you know, I was really much into this high carb craze, Like once I started to see top ultra runners do it and I started looking at the signs and started trying it out myself. And I remember the first time that I did a run ever Well, I would say the first time I did a run with a hundred grams of carbs, I felt very, very full. Which is a very, very important thing to say is, if you are increasing your carbohydrate intake on your runs, you are going to feel really full at first because your stomach's not adapted. But once my stomach started to get adapted to it, I remember the first few runs where I was doing a hundred grams of carbs an hour and I remember texting my friend I was like dude, this is a cheat code, this is insane. Like I just felt like way more fueled. I felt like my legs were more springy, Like it is such a good thing, because carbohydrates help to fuel your body. It helps to fuel your muscles, fill your muscles with the glycogen needs to go forward. So if you have more carbohydrates, you are able to have more fuel in the tank to keep going and keep moving stronger and not bonk out there. So I knew that I wanted to go relatively fast in this race.
Speaker 2:And also, in hotter temperatures you do burn more glycogen, so you tend to need more carbohydrates in hot or hotter temperatures too. So I wanted to get a hundred grams of carbs an hour. So I did a grams of carbs an hour and I did it in a combination of drink mix and gels only, so I didn't eat anything else other than drink mix and gels. No real food, no, nothing else. And my whole thing with that is when you're in hotter temperatures, your body's going to digest more liquid style calories a lot better than real food. Because what happens is in hotter temperatures the blood in your intestines is going to shunt away a lot more because it's trying to spend more resources cooling you down. So therefore, your intestines aren't going to be able to digest as well. So if you try to eat like real food even if real food that works well in a run, a cooler temperature if it's thicker takes more time to break down, takes more energy to break down you might not have the gut power to do it.
Speaker 2:So for me, I try to keep as liquid as possible to have no GI issues. And I had no GI issues. I felt fueled the entire time and on top of that too, hydration wise hot race. I was doing a liter an hour with a thousand milligrams of salt every hour and uh, that was my whole strategy on that and you really got to train that in training. So, like every single long run I would do that, but I would also do some long runs. Not all were right before. I would literally take 600 calories of gel and I would just start running and, yeah, like I would feel full and I would feel like that. But it trains your body and your stomach to be able to handle a high carbohydrate load over a long period of time. And so I did that at a time and, yeah, I never had GI issues and I only had gels and drink mix and I felt fueled and great, and I think that was like 10 out of 10 for me out there, which was awesome let's go.
Speaker 1:That's amazing, dude.
Speaker 2:This is a master class for hot races yeah, and, by the way, I want to say too, like I'm sitting here saying, like I, I I'm, you know, master all this stuff, but it took me years to figure this out yeah, so I definitely want to just say like right now I'm coming off like I know all this stuff, but it took me years to figure this out.
Speaker 2:So I definitely want to just say like right now I'm coming off like I know all that stuff, but like this was like years of iteration and research and like trying to see the scientific papers and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:So this is just like all, like the stuff that I've learned, like over the years, and again, like if you're listening to this, like these, these are all things you can learn and adapt and yeah, so I like to make that 100%, and that's something I tell my athletes, because I'm like, hey, I'm going to get you as prepared as I possibly can for this race, but at the same time you are going to learn things about yourself during this hundred mile race that I can't tell you.
Speaker 1:I can tell you what to prepare for, what to expect, what I've experienced, but your process is going to be refined by doing more. It's like, would you expect to go out and take the ACT? Let's just say and do the best your first time? Probably not right, because you've never experienced it or anything like that. You never expect to do your best the first time, and so that's why I say just go out and do it. Go out and, imperfectly, take action, because then, once you have the experience, you can iterate on your plan that you had before. So that's a great point, joe.
Speaker 2:Yeah for sure. And even to add on that too, like I think the biggest unknown for people in these races, even if you're working for a coach, like listen, I've worked with coaches too in the past and everything like that, and you know I've been doing for this a long time and, like you know, the the first time I ever did 250 miles was Cocodona 250, and you've done 200. So I'm sure you can relate to this too. You also worked with the coach, mike McKnight. I worked with Joe McConaughey, um, who were both incredible, some of the best 200 mile runners, if not the best, uh, in the world.
Speaker 2:And I remember like Joe telling me like what it was like past like a hundred miles, cause I'd never gone before and there was nothing he could have told me. There's nothing anyone could have told me that could have amply prepared me for like the feeling out there and I tell that to all my athletes too it's like when you go a hundred miles, like when you get past the furthest you have, like I can tell you everything what it's going to feel like, but it's like you don't know until you know. And, um, that's why I think the first time is so beneficial, because it's like you know it and um it like I don't have kids. But I've heard the same thing with kids. It's like people say you know when you know um, and I feel like it's almost a similar feeling when you go my first 200 miler cause you had done, you'd done three before I'd done one, and um, yeah, like you just don't know until you know in the end of the day, yeah, for sure?
Speaker 1:Um, I do want to circle back at some point to the how you attacked it mentally, but before we do that, I want to stay on training a little bit, because I do want to ask you if you have any favorite modalities of recovery, how much you try and sleep per night, what that looks like for you? Because you know through training you're really balancing, you're stressing your body but also recovering. Some of my favorite things I've found are the sauna to loosen you up. I get massage, chiropractor Epsom salt baths. Cold plunging can be good, but what do you like? What do you found works best for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm very simplistic when it comes to recovery and I think nowadays there's so much supplements and recovery stuff out there not saying they're bad. I think a lot of times like people gravitate towards that first and foremost, but the best thing by far. But and listen, I was like obsessed with recovery, cause when I first started up in the sport I was getting injured, like I was just like not feeling good and everything like that, and I was obsessed with trying to find, like what the best recovery tool is. And through all the research, through speaking with experts, through having hundreds and hundreds of guests in the podcast, there is one thing by far bar none that is going to give you the best bang for your buck, and that is good old sleepy time. So sleep is like the best thing. So, like for me, like that was always like something that I would try not to shunt on as much as possible so for me, like seven hours is like great for me, like if I have seven hours, I feel awesome. If I go through like a long training session or a harder workout or maybe I'm not feeling as recovered. I maybe can go to like eight to nine hours or so, but I'm always prioritizing sleep and even so, there'll be some days where it's I could sleep for 30 more minutes or I can get 30 more minutes out of my run. I would actually sleep for 30 more minutes, um, because, again, you don't want to balance that rest stress equation out too much, so I would just go ahead and sleep a lot more. So sleep was always the biggest thing for me, for sure. But I understand some people listen to this podcast. They're like listen, I got a job, I got kids, I don't have as flexible a schedule. A hundred percent agree. So then again, go into the basics. It's all a matter of, like, nutrition and hydration. So I think nutrition really really big too, because a few different things that I would do is like.
Speaker 2:I think one thing that people underestimate is like they just are maybe not eating enough in their day to day to fuel their body. If you are training for an ultra marathon, you are burning a ton of calories, tons of calories, and in the end of the day, you need to replenish those calories and refuel your body, not only from a perspective of getting back after every next workout, but your muscles need protein. It also needs carbohydrates. You need to have insulin in your body to produce more energy and everything like that too. So, like for me, I was very, very strict about like eating. So, like for me, I was very, very strict about like eating.
Speaker 2:If my body was hungry, I would eat, and I would even tell you like I was a little heavier than I was last year too. Like I think I was like seven pounds heavier than I was last year, mostly because I did put on intentional weight during Coca-Dona. But I think a lot of times people see the weight on the scale and they're like I need to cut back so I can get faster. The problem is you do that, you're under fueled and you're screwed. So in the end of the day, like I would make sure I was eating a lot, trying to eat as clean as possible, and that would really really help a ton. So there's that.
Speaker 2:And then the third thing is hydration like making sure that you've got the hydration on there. So if you just do those three things, if you make sure that you're sleeping well, you're eating well, you're drinking well, that's going to take care of a lot of your recovery things too. I will say there's one other tool that has been a personal favorite of mine this is backed by research too is taking exogenous ketones right after my workout. So there are some studies that show that if you do take exogenous ketones right after your workout, it does lead to increased recovery benefits. Jeff Browning has talked about it. David Roche has talked about it. I know sometimes people have, like you know, question the efficacy.
Speaker 1:Jeremy Miller.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly Jeremy. We see you, jeremy. But from a recovery standpoint, they actually have some scientific studies that do back that. So I would take ketones after every single hard workout, like as soon as possible, and I felt that was great and I had no injuries, no niggles, no nothing, even with the highest volume in my life, just doing those three things. And yeah, I didn't do any extra stuff, not because I didn't think it was bad, but because I like my time in the day. If, like, I could spend 30 minutes going and getting massage or 30 minutes sleeping, I'm always choosing the sleep, for sure.
Speaker 1:That's really good. One thing I will add, um, is that I tried testing out, uh, the hot and cold and then analyzing my recovery scores on my whoop, and I did find that I sleep way better when I get the hot and cold, and so that that's something interesting to test out. I do like rounds of 10 minutes in the sauna, a minute in the in the cold, plunge um three times over, two, three times over, and my recovery scores would go from like 70% to 80 or 90 on the whoop. So, um, that's something to check out if you're trying to recover better. But I I do agree with everything you're saying. It's like sleep is so essential. Um, just just think to yourself how do I feel on a day where I get five hours of sleep versus eight? Like 90% of the time you feel way better.
Speaker 1:And that's not for just you know no reason there's. You know that your body's recovering through that that time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and if I will say too, if you can't get more sleep, increase your sleep quality. So, like for me, like I invested in like a very high end pillow that was like expensive but it like I would go sleep on that thing and just like be out. And you know, we have like blackout curtains and like we we take down the room cold in our night because, like you sleep better when it's cold and you sleep better without light and stuff like that. Um, and then I would I. So I'm a big caffeine drinker, but during my training block I would try to like cut down my caffeine intake so I can go to sleep a lot better. So, if you have the same hours in a day and you can't get more sleep, improve your sleep quality, and that itself is also going to lead to good recovery too, which, like to your point, it's like if you're doing things like hot and cold therapy, whatever, like whatever's going to increase your sleep quality, that's how you also get more juice out of the squeeze in the same hours.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's really good. I know we're a little bit over, so I do want to just finish it up shortly with this question. We've just been flowing. This is so good. So, going back to how you approached it this year differently, I think you said you know there was a physical side when it comes to the training, but then I was inferring were you going to talk about a mental side?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So the mental side for this too, and honestly it's very fitting for the title of this podcast. So, and I'll tell you why in a second. So for me, like I said, the first two years I was gung ho about getting the golden ticket and I still there was a side of me that still wanted it this year. But I thought back on that, and because I wanted the golden ticket and the golden ticket depends on your placement in the race I would get so caught up by what the guys at the front of the pack were doing and I would let that determine a how I'm racing and, b how I'm feeling out there. So, like the first year, I ran with the lead pack and my, my crew chief, aaron he tells me the story all the time Now I had planned to come in at a pace around like seven 45 for my first loop. I came in with a pace of like seven, 25, like 19 minutes earlier than my splits, and he was like what the heck are you doing? Um, and then I completely just like positive split the crap out of that race and it was a 25% positive split and I did that because I was trying to chase the lead pack. Trying to be at the front, I ended up getting 10, 10 plays, 16, 36. Great.
Speaker 2:The second year, again, I was so gung ho on the golden ticket and it wasn't that, but I knew it was like I'm not going to chase the lead pack. This year, however, I'm still really focused on the golden ticket. And the problem was I, I, someone. I asked my crew chief. I said where am I at the second loop? And I was way far behind and that just screwed me mentally big time, like just knowing that number where I was at screwed with me big time and I think that contributed to getting a slower time. So this year I said and again back to the back, to the title of the podcast I was going to run my race. That was it. I was like listen, I want to get a golden ticket, I want to be the top. But guess what, this year all I'm focusing on is my splits. And I have my splits and I know, if I hit my splits to a tee on a very good day, that there is a chance that I can get a golden ticket here. But I'm not going to let anyone else's pace, race placement determine where I'm at. I even told my crew. I was like, don't tell me where I'm at until loop five. And even so, like I'm still going to try and hit my splits.
Speaker 2:And so, on that start line, I remember this so vividly. On the start line, I remember just sitting there and in my head like I kept telling myself I was like I'm the only one standing on the start line right now, meanwhile there's hundreds of people behind me. But I told myself I was like it's only me, that's it, it's only me. Guess what? I intentionally barely even talked to people on the first loop because I really wanted to get in the motive Like it is just me out here and I didn't know where people at.
Speaker 2:I didn't care where people was at and it led me to not only have my best race ever, but guess what?
Speaker 2:Actually, negative split, a hundred miles.
Speaker 2:I had a negative split and I was the only person in the top 10 to negative split a hundred miles, by the way.
Speaker 2:So, um, and that's coming from a positive split of 25%, and I truly believe it was because I ran my own race in the end of the day and I realized that it was like, wow, isn't that funny how I have my best year, when all I did was focus on the best that I can do in the end of the day, and that's what yield the best results.
Speaker 2:And that's what I tell for everybody, whether you're going for the top or whether even you're back of the pack and you're just trying to finish. Because, in the end of the day, even if always say it does not matter what place you're in, it does not matter where you're at, and it doesn't even matter your time, did you give it your very all? Did you give it the best that you can give on that day? And if the answer is yes to that, whether you're in first place or 700th place, you have won the game. You have won the game and so, in the end of the day, you want to run your race, do the very best you can. And that was the mindset this year, and it ended up being, you know, the the year that was my best year yet, which is, you know, I think, just helps improve that mindset even more.
Speaker 1:Let's go, man. That's amazing. Congrats again on an amazing finish. Thank you so much for just sharing all those nuggets and wisdom and so powerful that mindset of running your own race, not focusing on what other people are doing where other people are at.
Speaker 1:There's a great book, excuse me, called the Gap in the Game, and it's very similar to what you're talking about. It's a great business book and it talks about two different mindsets. You can either be focusing on the gap between where you're at and where you want to be and a lot of times that's pretty demoralizing because you have these big goals and big aspirations and it's like man, I'm not close to these or you can focus on the gain of how far you've come from where you were at before, and so I think this is very similar. It's not focusing on what other people are doing, how far you have to the lead pack, but just by focusing on the gains that you're making. Focus on running your own race and being there with you so that you pace things correctly. Your mindset, your mindset isn't. Uh, I you know so many people do things like they. They will be trying to stay with the lead pack because and then they don't put on chafing loop or change their socks or change their shoes or, uh, whatever.
Speaker 1:I've made those mistakes. My athletes have made those mistakes in the past and I'm sure you've made those mistakes too. Um, those mistakes in the past, and I'm sure you've made those mistakes too, but that's very powerful, that you ran your own race and just amazing job. Thanks again for coming on the show Before I let you go. Where can people find out more about you, joe? Where you're at your Instagram podcast and those things?
Speaker 2:Yeah, a hundred percent. And Pierce, thanks for having me on. Man, this was awesome. And I want to say, like, keep listening to this podcast. I know, like Pierce is a few episodes in, but I've known Pierce for a while and I'll tell you this like, if you like these episodes, like kind of the whole theme of this episode is like progress and Pierce is already so good and it's like to see like where the show can go, like you're in for a ride. So keep listening to this podcast. I'll tell you too.
Speaker 2:Um, so for me, um, as Pierce said early in, the thing, I own everyday ultra and we do coaching and we also do podcasts. So we have a podcast everyday ultra, um, very similar to the this kind of show, right? So if you want to be a better endurance athlete every day, pierce has been on multiple times Uh, we've had our good friend Jeremy on to like a lot of great athletes on there as well, and I also share a lot of tips and advice too. You can find that wherever podcasts are at to. I'm most active on social, on Instagram, at Joe Corsione as well, too, and then, um, you know, we do have coaching availability as well If you want to work with myself or someone on the team as well. You can email everyday ultra podcast at gmailcom too.
Speaker 2:But I will also say, like Pierce is an amazing coach as well. I know he's like helped a ton of athletes too. So you know I he's got my stamp of approval down pat as well too. So uh, it's funny like we we talk a lot about coaching and learning and stuff and we're very aligned on like the principles and stuff like that of what it takes to make great progress. So, um, he, he gets my uh stamp of approval and testimonial for sure no-transcript.