Run Your Race Podcast
When I first listened to David Goggins' book in 2019, I was hooked. If he could run 100 miles without training, I thought I could do it with training! It unlocked something in me, leading to my journey into ultramarathons. Since then, I've completed multiple 100- and 200-mile races, something I once thought impossible. This podcast aims to give you that same mindset shift. Each week, we interview elite endurance athletes to inspire you to believe more is possible and push yourself to the next level.
Run Your Race Podcast
#009: Tara Dower - Fastest Known Time On The Appalachian Trail (2,000+ Miles In 40 Days)
What drives someone to attempt the seemingly impossible and succeed against all odds? Meet Tara Dower, a professional ultra runner and through hiker who has done just that, achieving a record-breaking Fastest Known Time (FKT) on the Appalachian Trail. Tara's journey is a compelling blend of resilience and passion, starting from her unique upbringing with a love for the outdoors and sports like soccer, which built her endurance. Her initial attempt at the trail in 2017 was thwarted by a panic attack, but her story is one of grit and transformation, where she returned stronger, proving that the journey's lessons are as powerful as reaching the destination.
Peek behind the curtain of what it takes to prepare for an FKT challenge as Tara shares her meticulous planning process. Training for the Hard Rock 100 played a vital role in her preparation, offering long runs and mountain experiences that enhanced her trail skills. Listen as we explore how nutrition and teamwork are crucial to maintaining energy over extended efforts, emphasizing the necessity of a supportive crew to tackle such extraordinary feats. Tara's insights reveal the blend of personal calling and the logistical complexity involved in setting such monumental goals.
Aspiring trail runners, take note: Tara's humorous yet profound advice offers a roadmap for chasing ambitious dreams. Find out why expensive energy products might not be the golden ticket and how perseverance through failure can lead to success. With stories of camaraderie and moments of pure joy on the trail, Tara encourages us all to embrace the adventure, appreciate the efforts of a dedicated team, and find balance between personal passion and professional pursuits. Join us for an inspiring conversation that challenges us to redefine our limits and find the joy in the journey.
You can find Tara here…
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/tara.dower/
Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@taratreks
Donate - https://support.girlsontherun.org/fundraiser/5607331
Okay, what is up everyone? Welcome back to the Run your Race podcast. I'm your host, pierce Hsiao, and I'm really excited for you to hear from our guest today. I am joined by Tara Dower, who's a professional ultra runner through hiker and FKT record holder. Fkt stands for fastest known time, and the fastest known time that she has is that she's the fastest person to complete the 2,189 mile Appalachian Trail, and she did it in 40 days, 18 hours and five minutes. And what I think is really cool about this record is that she has also raised over $95,000, just $144 shy of $100,000 for a charity called Girls on the Run that designs programming that strengthens third to eighth grade girls' social, emotional, physical and behavioral skills to help them successfully navigate life experiences. So, tara, first of all, congratulations and welcome to the show. It's an honor to have you on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Awesome. So I guess first I want to dive into. I know that you didn't just on a whim go out there and do this FKT, so walk me through what got you into running and into through hiking too.
Speaker 2:Oh man, it's a long story. Yeah, I would say I just grew up pretty outdoorsy. As a kid my parents would take us hiking a lot and we played me and my brother played a lot of sports. We did a lot of camping as a family and was playing soccer pretty much my entire life up until I went into college and developed a lot of endurance playing midfield because you have to go back and forth from defense to offense and I just developed a lot of endurance and by the time I got to track in middle school I was pretty good at the mile. I mean pretty good for a middle schooler and I mean I was. I was like at the top of the pack but not like the best of the best. And then, you know, went on to high school and did pretty well in cross country and just enjoyed running really long distances as well. I found that, you know, it felt pretty natural to move my body to that degree. And then I, you know, went to college, played rugby but learned about the Appalachian Trail in college and made that a goal of mine to through hike, the Appalachian Trail.
Speaker 2:I graduated and it was 2017. I attempted to go through hike, made it 80 miles in, had a panic attack and had to leave trail and had to reevaluate my motivations and my anxieties, and it was quite the learning experience. And then in 2019, I went back and through hike the entire trail five months and 10 days and then I got into running after that because I wanted to do trails, I wanted to do these long endurance efforts, but I also didn't have that much time At the time. I needed to work to live. So I decided to run the Mounds of Sea Trail, and that's 1,175 miles across the state of North Carolina.
Speaker 2:And then I went back uh, you know, live. I went back to where I live and decided I wanted to get into ultra marathons and I did a uh, my first 100 miler a year after completing the MST, and then it just took off from there. Since then I've done I don't even know like eight or nine 100 milers, a slew of other ultra marathons and I've done the Colorado Trail, fkt, ben McKay Trail, now the Appalachian Trail and obviously the Mountains to Sea Trail as well. So I've kind of gone headfirst and I'm very honored, I'm very lucky to be a professional athlete now, so I don't need to work a second job anymore, which is really nice, and I can just focus primarily on running and these endurance efforts.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's incredible. What, what a story. So, um, what was the um timeframe from when you went out to do your first through hike of the Appalachian Trail? But you had a panic attack until now? How many years ago was that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was 2017.
Speaker 1:Oh, so seven years ago yeah seven years Wow. So tell me, what was it like getting over that? Because I think it's really encouraging and inspiring to hear that it wasn't like the first time out there you, you know, crushed it. It's like the first time you actually had to, you know, stop and regroup and re think through your motivations.
Speaker 2:It sounded like you said yeah, yeah, I mean I went out there at the beginning of, like, my fascination with the Appalachian trail. I was fascinated by the community and the culture, um, nature, the journey of getting from Georgia to Maine, the entire journey. But I think it it changed a little bit through college and just became like my identity that I wanted to just be a through hiker of the Appalachian trail. I mean it's a pretty incredible thing to do for anyone to do, to complete the Appalachian trail from end to end, and that's all I wanted to do. I just wanted to call myself a through hiker and I kind of missed. I missed the original intent of why I wanted to be out there and I think I lost sight of that. And so when I got on the trail, I you know one. There's a lot. I mean, it's a big, big difference from, you know, living in a house with running water, running hot water and showers every day and you know running, you know toilet and a nice comfy bed. It's way different than that. And also I miss my family, I miss my friends. But I think the thing that got me and I've always had anxiety and I didn't think it was to this severe degree what got me was like the like, the, this like feeling of, like panic and this like doom, and, um, this like doom, feeling like doom was impending. Uh, and also, it was like I was only focused on the end. I was focused on becoming a through hiker and so I wasn't focused on the journey. So all, every single day, I was looking to Mount Katahdin and not looking towards, you know, the journey, the adventure of it all. And so I had to reevaluate my motivations and what really made me want to hike was the journey, and I felt like I lost sight of that and went back home and took two years and worked through the anxiety and worked through those motivations and I came back in 2019 and just had the time of my life. I still say to this day, it was, you know, I. I really felt like I peaked in life on the Appalachian trail the first time, or I mean the, the successful through hike in 2019. Um, so, yeah, yeah, I had to work through a lot of things and, luckily, luckily, I got through it, um, and went back and did achieve that dream.
Speaker 2:But unfortunately, that is a similar story for a lot of people and, lucky enough, I wasn't far into my life. I had just graduated college, I didn't have children, I didn't have a spouse. At that time I didn't have a whole lot of responsibilities as, like, a new graduate of college.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, there's people that go out there to the Appalachian trail and you know they're waiting their entire life to do this, or a good majority of their life. And you know they retire and um, or they, like, take a leave of absence for a time and they think you know I'm going to do this, and then they get out there and realize like, wow, this is so different from what I expected, and that's that was my case in 2017. And you know they go back home and they're pretty much back to the grind. Or you know they have family they they need to tend to. They can't ever go back. So I'm I'm incredibly lucky to have had the chance to go back and keep going back to, I mean, I after 2019, I got to go back again, um, so yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that's really good. One of the things I'm pulling out of that is you said in the first attempt you were so focused on getting to the end rather than focusing on on the journey of it, um a specific mindset or focus. It sounds like that's what it was, but how you tangibly enjoyed it more day by day than focusing on the end and getting too super anxious.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I made smaller goals. So one of my goals was to make it through Bly Gap, where I had that panic attack and not stop again. Make it through there Another smaller goal, and that's 80 miles in. Another goal was get a hundred miles under my belt on the AT, and then the next goal was make it to Franklin, which I think is, yeah, it's after, yeah, it's definitely after, the a hundred mile point.
Speaker 2:Um, so I just had like these smaller goals and I also wanted to make a community out there, a community of people that I could connect with and, you know, share the daily woes or daily, uh wins. And I did have people in 2017 I was hiking with. But I felt like the people I made in 2019, the friends I made in 2019, there was, um, there's just a lot more connection there. Um, I was hiking with like four boys in 2017. So I was like, not a lot of connection there.
Speaker 2:Uh, luckily, I made a lot of great friends, um, in 2019. And we, um, it was just a community. It was a great group of people. We were just traveling down the trail together, getting to know each other, and so there's several things I did. I also just like realized what would help my anxiety being out there, like I did have moments where I was like, wow, this really sucks, I'm wet and I'm cold and this is really hard. But you know, we're out there for the journey. Nobody ever said it was going to be you're camping outside. Nobody ever said you're going to be comfy the entire time. So I kind of had to come to reality at some points.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure. So so you'd been on the trail twice before, and this year you decided to go for the FKT. Uh, what made you decide to go back again and also set that goal?
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, I wanted to go back to where this all had started. My entire trail career, I believe, started when I was interested in the Appalachian Trail, when I went on section hikes, with that initial fascination of the trail, not knowing a lot about it. So I wanted to go back to the origins, where this entire trail career started, and I also had made a lot of connections with people who had attempted and successfully completed FKTs on the Appalachian Trail Liz Durstein, who I helped during her FKT in 2020 on the AT, and Warren Doyle and Carl Meltzer was my coach for a time, and Jen Farr Davis I worked for her for a while as well. Iceman, I was just making all these connections and it almost seemed like you know, it was almost seems perfect to like line me up to go for this FKT, and not that I mean like perfect in the the way that I was going to get it, but it was like I feel like I should go here. It's meant to be.
Speaker 2:I have all these connections, I have this level of endurance at this point in my career and I have this fascination with the Appalachian Trail, which I believe is what keeps people going when they're on through hikes or doing any sort of endurance endeavor. If your goal is to conquer the trail or to get a fast time, that for some people is enough motivation. But for me, I find that I'm heavily motivated by the journey of something more than just like conquering a record. So I wanted to go back and just see what I could do out there. There's a lot of curiosity. I didn't know if it was possible. I knew, like if I worked hard and if everything went really well, it could be a good possibility. I would get the FKT, but I was going out there just mainly to see how my body would do, how I would perform. Yeah, a lot of curiosity involved with it.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. I think it was maybe Joe Corcion's podcast. Joe and I are good friends. I was listening to it before this and I think you said something like you felt like the trail was calling to you.
Speaker 1:And I think it's very interesting. I found like there are specific challenges that will jump out at me almost, and it's almost like it's a very spiritual thing in a way, because it's like you feel like that's just the path that you're supposed to go in and like everything's lining up for you to to make it happen, like people end up helping you with that specific thing, or you get introduced to someone who's done it before and and helps you with navigate certain aspects. Um, did you feel like that was the case for this one?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, for sure. I felt, I definitely felt called to be back on the Appalachian trail in some capacity. Um, and that's what it looked like, getting out there again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's good. So let me ask you this Like, when you actually say, hey, I want to do this again, um, what did it look like as far as preparing for it? Like, did you do a specific training block? Did you run parts of the trail specific to get your body ready for that? What did that training process look like?
Speaker 2:Yeah, honestly, like training is just part of my daily life and as a athlete, I just I mean also just somebody who loves spending time on trails and spend time running. I just I mean also just somebody who loves spending time on trails and spend time running. I just train and run every day.
Speaker 2:Specifically for the Appalachian Trail though, I went out in May and went up to Maine and Vermont I mean Maine to Connecticut really for a couple weeks and did some recon on the trail. So it was mainly recon to understand the road crossings Maine and Vermont and New Hampshire New Hampshire not as much, but Maine is pretty, pretty remote and road crossings, uh, can be hard to navigate on. So I wanted to go out there with for my crew and like just check out these road crossings myself and make sure they were accessible. I was also able to do a lot of training runs out there, not specifically trying to like, trying to like train, for it was mainly going up there to see the road crossings but, I was able to go up the big lows and it was so snowy and Grafton Notch still so snowy, like it was not a good time to go up there.
Speaker 2:And then I had Hard Rock 100 in July Yep July, early July and I thought the training would translate really well to the Appalachian Trail that I was doing for Hard Rock. So it was a lot of long runs, time in the mountains, time at elevation too, so like I was staying at like in Silverton, at like nine, nine something, and I was training up at like 10, 11, 12,000 feet sometimes and even got up to a couple 14ers as well. So I was, I was out there doing significant amount of training for hard rock and I thought, like with a month break, that would be like the perfect, like last long run before going into the Appalachian trail.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. What would you say is like the difference between I mean, it sounds like you trained for a hundred and then that training went into this FKT. But like, what was what's the biggest difference, I guess, between running a hundred and running an FKT? But like, what was what's the biggest difference, I guess, between running a hundred and running an FKT? Is there a different way you approach it, different way you train for it? What jumps out to you about that?
Speaker 2:For training for an FKT. I would say if somebody wants to go for an FKT, the a couple important things you can do is just, you know, for training specifically. But I was going to say something about nutrition. But that's not that important. I mean, it is super important in the fkt but you can't really train your body to like, eat that many calories. It's pretty comparatively to an ultra marathon. It's easier easier for your body for me at least to digest those calories during an FKT at that pace than it is to digest them at an ultra marathon pace. So it's important to do research and know what you're needing to consume as far as like calories, carbs, fats, proteins. But if you're looking at just like physical training, it's important if somebody wants to go for an FKT to do multiple big back-to-back days.
Speaker 2:Do like 35 miles back-to-back, even if you could go out to the trail and whatever trail you're trying to go for, get on the terrain and have somebody crew you for like a week. That is perfect training, because you really start understanding what your body is doing. You're understanding like the feelings that your body has and you're understanding also like what you need during that time. Some people like to be alone. Some people like to have pacers. So I think, like just going out there, it's essentially like a shakeout hike People call before they go on the Appalachian Trail or on a long through hike. They always do these shakeout hikes and that helps them, you know, figure out what gear is working, what gear isn't working. So it's really just like doing a practice. Run of the trail is probably the most effective thing you could do to get there and be successful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure, was there a certain amount of like mileage per week or hours per week that you were shooting for during your training, like how high did it get up in your training?
Speaker 2:Oh, I have no clue.
Speaker 1:Do you just go out and run or do you have a coach?
Speaker 2:I have a coach and she does all the data and all the thinking for me. I just follow the plan. I'm not like a huge, I'm not really into that aspect of training. I know some people that really into like the data and like the statistics and you know how many hours they did. I think it is really important. I wish I was more into it because it would be cool to like be into that, but I just I find myself just not. My eyes just glaze over when people start talking about it that's funny.
Speaker 1:What, what aspect of training do you love? Is there?
Speaker 2:a specific.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love the adventure. I love, I like I have been, as I'm here up in Ward I like just going out and putting some music in and running around at a pace that feels comfortable and sometimes that means, like you know, pushing it, pushing the pace. Sometimes that means just going at a 10 minute pace, 10 minute mile pace, and that's fine, like I think it's. If you're not enjoying the training, then I know it's my job now. But, like, if you're not enjoying the training, I don't really see like a point in going out there. I don't know Cause I mean it is. It is there's something to say about like going out there and just like you know putting your, your head to the grindstone, whatever the saying is, um, and just like doing it.
Speaker 2:But I don't know, it's just like I enjoy the adventure and I really enjoy just going on long runs and pushing my limits to during the speed workouts. Like, as much as I don't enjoy those, as much as the long runs, it is so cool to be like, oh yeah, I'm getting faster Like every workout. You're just like developing, you know that mental toughness and you're developing that speed or that endurance. Um, that's fun too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I definitely agree with you. I think some people watch like David Goggins videos and him talking about how he runs because he hates running and he's got to get over it. And I'm like I've run because I actually enjoy it, Like it makes me feel good. Like talk about anxiety. When you finish a run like an hour or two hour run you feel like you're on top of the world. You can accomplish anything, you can handle any problem, anything that comes your way.
Speaker 1:You're like, oh, I got this It'll be, fine, so that's definitely a huge part of running. So well, can you, can you at least like take me through what I guess like a week of training would look like for you?
Speaker 2:Oh, um, you know, I mean typically like with the. My coach now Megan, wrote she puts, you know, a couple of different workouts on my schedule. I usually have off on Mondays, and then Tuesday I'm doing like a, like a what is it like? A eight mile run, and then the next day I'm doing like a eight mile run with like some surges in there. Uh, wednesday it's like another, just like base base building run, and then the next day is another like workout, so like with some surges, doing like an amount of miles with surges.
Speaker 2:And what are we at now? I think we're at Friday. Um, friday is kind of like a, not a recovery day, but it's like you just um, you know, I biked yesterday, um, or you just do like an easy run, and then Saturday is my long run, and then Sunday I do like I think she has a double long run. That's typically what it looks like. So like two long runs back to back, maybe some surges in there, and then I've just started adding a lot of like weightlifting as well. Not so much weightlifting, but a lot of like um, a lot of uh like dumbbell work and uh, what do they call it? My brain is just not firing at all capacity right now.
Speaker 1:Um, like kind of PT stuff yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, ab work. I hate abs, I hate cord Gosh. Um, and I also I'm going to start seeing like a nutritionist to get cause. That's always been like my Achilles heel is that nutrition side of races and FKTs. Luckily, that wasn't the case with this FKT. I ate really well and had a really good nutrition plan for the FKT.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let me ask you this. I want to dive into that because I mean you're going. I think I saw was it like between 40 some and 50 miles a day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it came out to like 55 miles a day.
Speaker 1:Okay, so averaging 55 miles a day, I mean that's over 10,000 calories, probably, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I would try to get anywhere from like eight to 10,000 calories.
Speaker 1:Okay. So what are you eating throughout the day? Is it like mostly whole foods? Are you doing gels also liquid calories? What does that look like?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, no gels.
Speaker 1:Um, that stopped pretty quickly I why Cause you got sick of them or?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So I have like a couple things I want my crew to stick to for this FKT in 2020. I learned a lot about nutrition and how important it is during an FKT or a long endurance effort, but I tried to do 500 calories for breakfast, 300 calories throughout the day, every hour, 300 calories throughout the day, um, every hour, and then 1500 calories for dinner and then at every cruise, every cruise spot, which was about six to seven times a day. I drank a 320 calorie protein drink and it has 20 grams of protein and I forget how many carbs. It has. A good amount of carbs, um, but luckily and I also told my crew I wanted to do a lot more whole foods as well and, uh, luckily, amy and Steve joined the crew 11 days in and they they uh took charge of the nutrition part. So she's keeping track of my fats and my proteins and carbs and calories, which was really helpful, macros, and she was making foods I mean whole foods like actual foods you could pronounce and you knew what was in it, with just really nutritious things, and I just it was really yummy and I never really craved any foods out there because I was being fed so well. And it's also this team aspect we haven't really gone into in this podcast, but there's a huge team aspect to this FKT. It's a supported FKT and so my thought behind that is like I want this to be completely supported. The only stipulation there is, like you have to be self-propelled but otherwise you can't have a team around you, and so for me that looked like having somebody pacing me. I had a pacer for around 80, 80% of the time on the trail and they would carry the food, the water and they would keep track of when I need to eat. So they timed it, so every 20 minutes I would eat, they would give me something to eat and kind of forced me to get something down. So I really wasn't having to think about a lot of things besides just moving forward. And when I was going to use the bathroom and that was that was so great.
Speaker 2:The crew was amazing and truly we're just like a team. I was, my job was the runner, Rascal was the crew chief, she was the director, the boss of the FKT. My mom was also part of like that, like leading group. Um, they were there the entire 40 days and my mom was kind of the crew mom is what we called her. And then we had Amy and Steve who were, you know, essentially the cooks. And then we had my friend JP, who's out there for a month with us and he was like the lead pacer, you know, I know. You know, hunter Hunter was there and did an incredible job pacing towards the end. So everyone kind of had a job that they were doing and that they could solely focus on, and it just made it easier on everyone if everyone just did their job the best that they could. And that's how it was for me. I could just focus on moving forward.
Speaker 1:That's great. Yeah, I hear you often talk about how like the FKT is no FKT without the people that are supporting you, and it sounds like from that I mean, they made a huge difference having them carry your fuel If you haven't for a listener, if you haven't like, experienced the difference of you know carrying everything yourself versus someone doing it for you. Typically you can't do it during 100 mile races, but for this fkt, because yourself or crew supported, you could um so so that's amazing. Where did I know? One was your mom, one was your friends. Where did all these people come from to be on your crew?
Speaker 2:yeah, it was just from a history of being on the trails. I mean, it started in 2019. I met Rascal on the Appalachian Trail and since then she has been prolific in the trail community. She's hiked she's a triple crowner right now so she's hiked all three big trails and she's about to go to Teora and she's done the long trail and the JMT. So I knew she had a great level of understanding about trails and distances and pacing of trail. Um, obviously, my mom's my mom. I met her at birth.
Speaker 2:Um, then there was, you know, jp. He's one of my teammates on um with ultra. So I met him in March of this year. Um, hunter was, I think we just kind of, oh right, I uh went after his FKT on the Bet McKay trail and we just became friends on social media and when one one of my my second ultra marathon, he came out second hundred miler, he came out and paced me. Um, who else? Kenny? Kenny, I met through the Appalachian trail community and Amy and Steve were from social media. So there's a bunch of people from social media. I put out a bunch of like. Um, you know feelers out there on my stories on Instagram and asking people if they want to like pace or crew and you know there is a possibility there to like have somebody come out who is like not doesn't have the best intentions, but that rarely ever happens.
Speaker 1:Yeah, amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and people, everyone that came out was pretty amazing. Everyone was, you know, pretty on board with the FKT. I had some great, great community come out. It was just really cool.
Speaker 2:I know, with the Appalachian Trail it's got such a strong community around it Ultra Marathon, such a strong community, and it only seemed natural to invite people to come out and help. Like, this is, yes, my FKT, this is my team's FKT, this is chump change FKT, but this is also just a community FKT as well, cause without all these people that came out, I didn't even know who half of more than half of them were before they went out with me alone on trail. Like, I mean, without them it wouldn't have been possible. So it almost, almost, seemed like natural to invite people and I think I think that's a missing link in some people's like attempts on the AT. You know, it's just like such such a strong community and people do want to help and be there.
Speaker 2:Um, and you know some people are successful in that, like carl melzer. Um, like he, he did not want any, he delayed his, his uh tracker by, I think, a couple days and people were trying to find him and obviously couldn't find him. Um, and some people just enjoy that a lot more, but for me, I knew that I wanted to like invite all these people to come out. It would be incredibly encouraging.
Speaker 1:That's really awesome. I think there's like a an aspect of it like of the practical, like someone carrying your food and helping you cook food, making sure you're eating. But then there's also this like relational component that I've found, especially during like a hundred mile races and 200 mile races, which I'm sure you experienced out there, of like it's just so much better doing things with other people and doing things as a part of a team and and just coming together and sharing the stories and the laughs of you know when you're at your end and you're so exhausted but you just got to keep going and you're slap, happy and you're just laughing at how much pain you're in, or something like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you're completely right. I think there's also an aspect, at least for the AT. There's an aspect of rejuvenation of energy too, with with how many people came out. You know my crew was able to. You know they were reignited, almost like people were in and out and me and the crew. We were reignited Like. This excitement that people brought was just. It was very special and very different from how everyone, all of us, were feeling, everyone in the consistent crew. We were all in the same sleep schedule. Oftentimes I'm running, obviously I'm going to be tired, but they're also sleeping the same amount of time. They're driving everywhere, they're doing chores, they're making food, they're doing logistics. They also have a lot of brain power going towards this FKT. So to have some new blood come out, it's like a rejuvenation of the soul and the energy of the team.
Speaker 1:Yeah for sure. Now I know that there had to be so many different highs and lows throughout the 40 days that you were out there. Were there any like specific low moments you had and, if so, what helped you get through those?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean, obviously there was a lot of low moments, and I think of a new one every single day. I kind of share one on different podcasts all the time. You know, there was, I mean, not just basics, like the basics of like the low moments where some days were extremely hot and I was not having the best time. I'm not I think I'm great in heat, but like when it gets really really hot and I'm out there all day, I did have moments where it was just like it was really difficult, the energy level would just plummet, um, so I mean, there was moments like that. There was, uh, up in the whites and, and, um, maine, I didn't see the sun for like six days. I saw it for like four minutes on one day, um, and it was just like it was really depleting my energy and it was also just raining and it was just really crappy conditions. And then, um, I mean, there's several other moments where you know things wouldn't go quite to plan, and that's just kind of how it is, though, like I have enough experience in this FKT and I also have a lot of my expectations met before I went out there to the AT Not met, but I set up my expectations. Because the mentors I have and because the experiences I've gone through in races and in FKTs, I know it's going to be hard and you're going to be tired. There's going to be moments where you're so extremely tired there's no way you can take another step without falling over. And somehow you do Somehow. You keep going. There's moments where your body is not working even at half capacity. It's just so depleted. There's moments where you can't get any food down and you feel like you're going to throw up. There's moments where you're just really, really ornery and you just want to yell at somebody and obviously I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. That's unnecessary. But sometimes it's really hard and I knew that going into the FKT. I knew that it was going to be really difficult and with those proper expectations I was just kind of able to move on past that. All you can do. There's no like special fix, there's no like secret formula to like get through hard times. It's literally just moving forward and it's so frustrating in the moment.
Speaker 2:I remember the last day I had been going for 40 odd hours and I was on my last push. It was 129 miles in 44 hours and I was just so completely depleted and I had a really bad hallucination and then, maybe two minutes later, I tripped and fell really bad, and I looked to Rascal to say, or do something or come up with some. Oh guess what. But there was never anything like that and though it took the entire time, I just realized like, like it's just you gotta, it's just movement, it's just putting one foot in front of the other and it's going to stink and it's going to feel like forever.
Speaker 2:And I think there's a lot of people that do these endurance efforts and they go out there and they're trying to minimize and mitigate the sleep deprivation and you know any like things that go wrong during FKT. They could try to mitigate that as much as possible. I think that's good to a point, but at a certain point you won't. You just have to go through the suck. You just have to go through it and keep moving. And I think I was focused on that and you know, yeah, putting making those like proper expectations and just expecting it to be really hard, but also like being super happy when it wasn't trying to like soak, in the moments where I wasn't sleep deprived, where I had a lot of energy where I was laughing with my pacers or my crew and you just need to soak up those really good moments. So when it's bad, you know that. You know good moment can happen during this type of thing.
Speaker 1:That's really good. One thing I'm hearing you particularly say is you expected it to be difficult, you expected it to be challenging, you expected it to be hard, so that when it was, it was like it's sucked. But you're like, oh, I expected this to happen, so it would be weird if it wasn't hard, or weird if it didn't suck.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think a lot of people I think I and a lot of people we go out there to get to that point, and I don't think we necessarily speak that out loud, but I think people like us, we go out there and we're like kind of waiting for that moment, and so when it comes, it's like, yeah, this is really hard. But it's also like what can I do in this space? Like how far can I go and how far can I push my limits? It's kind of exciting. But also, like in the moment, it's like, oh gosh, I'm so tired right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's kind of funny to laugh about too, because it's like we do these for the purpose of growing and you only grow if you get to that space where it's hard and you don't want to continue and things like that. So like, why are we complaining that it's hard? This is what we signed up for.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Like nobody ever said it was going to be easy no one. That's one of my favorite things to say and motivate myself. It's because, like, we don't do this because it's easy or because this or that, or because the glory. We do this because it's a hard thing and not a lot of people do it and you can see where your limits lie. You do it for the adventure, and the adventure not only like physically looking at nature on the trail, but also like the adventure in your brain and like where can I go? How, to what depths can I go? To my limits?
Speaker 1:That's really good. Now, considering and seeing that you know you've done what you've done, you've done eight 100 mile races and the FKT and all this, like I would imagine could be wrong, but I would imagine that by some people you'd be considered unbalanced, um, and so I wanted to ask you, like, what cause I I get this? Oh, you know, live a little. Oh, you know why are you always run so much and you're running excessive? My running joke now in my family is, whenever we talk about going somewhere, they say, oh, is Pierce just going to run there? But but what do you think about the whole concept of balance? Um, especially as, like a high performing endurance athlete, like, is there anything such as balance? Like, is it different for anyone? What do you think about that whole conversation?
Speaker 1:Like balance with like living and life, and just life, and training and friends and and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think it's incredibly important to take time for yourself, but, like, taking time for myself also involves training and like being outdoors. So it is really blurry the lines I was doing. I started running for enjoyment and had friends who I ran with, and so it's like really blurry and now it's like my profession. So like that's just like really weird. That's a great question. It's definitely hard for me to balance the life, non-training and the training and just doing these efforts. I think a lot of my life, most of my life, is just this kind of stuff and that's how I enjoy life. I enjoy being on the trails, like in 2019, I realized how special it is to be on trails and just to be experiencing nature in such a unique way. So, yeah, that's a really good question.
Speaker 2:I think think, with eating, when I look to my nutrition, it's like I am eating because it's fuel, and also I love eating. I'm a big foodie but it's fueling me. When should I eat so I can fuel for this next run? How much water did I drink today? You see me chugging water. It's because I need to be hydrated. Yeah, um, so kind of everything. Is you know what's the best time to train. Is it too cold at this time? What's the weather like? Is it going to be hot? I think it's also important, like I think it's I've been saying I think, um, it's important to to make time to do things that you want to do, because most of my life I'm speaking to the choir here most of my life is just training and doing the next really hard thing, and I think it's important to, if there is something you want to do, hang out with your friends or have a couple drinks at a brewery, to not feel bad about that and to just do it.
Speaker 2:Um, and obviously I'm not going to excess, I'm not drinking all these beers. I'm, I'm having a good time though. I'm hanging out with my friends, and maybe that means the next day's training isn't super effective or as effective, but that's, that's okay. I think it's good to balance that living and that training, but for me it is quite blurry.
Speaker 1:I like that answer and I think a lot of people who say that don't understand that that's actually what you enjoy to be doing. And so where they see it as like, oh, you're giving up so much and you're spending so much time training, it's like, well, this is what I want to be doing.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, I enjoy feeling healthy. I enjoy feeling like I can run long distances and be fast. I enjoy running with my friends. I love getting a group together and going on a long run with them. It's just who we are in ultra marathons. It is all encompassing. When people make this their life, it is all encompassing. It truly is. You got to give it everything you got. Luckily, there's such a solid community there that you do have people that you can enjoy spending time with. That understand that blurriness.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure. Here's a question I have for you. You've done a lot, you've achieved a lot, achieved a lot. Do you ever experience moments of like self-doubt or imposter syndrome, like?
Speaker 2:especially when you're going after a next big goal. Oh, yeah for sure. All the time, constantly, I deal with a lot of imposter syndrome and I also deal with a lot of self doubt and I think this isn't helpful for everyone, but for me, like that is, that is what encourages me. So if I feel a level of doubt in myself, um, like I don't measure up to certain people in a race or certain people who have set the FKT prior, if I don't feel like I measure up to them, I am almost encouraged to work even harder to measure up to them and instead of, you know, giving up or something, I just work that much harder. And it's not even like I think I'm working harder to beat them. It's like I'm working hard to get to like baseline, to where I can maybe start working even harder to then beat them.
Speaker 2:Um, and I deal with that a lot and it's unfortunate. It's it's unfortunate. Well, you know it's unfortunate when I say it like that and I can see how people would say like, oh, that's really sad, that's a sad way to live to always feel like you're behind. But it does encourage me a lot and it works. It works and I'm not like super like down about that. I'm not like upset about that aspect of my life. It's just like how I'm encouraged. I don't know, Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:For sure it's. It's not bad because it's a motivating factor. You don't feel bad about yourself necessarily. It's just like oh I it. It's almost like this beneficial drive it sounds like you have. That is in the back of your head, pushing you to work harder, which I think is great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I constantly feel like I don't measure up and that just is more drive to work even harder.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think, as long as it's not like crushing you, which I mean it's not. It's like you, your, your, your history says that it's working right by what's happened so far.
Speaker 2:So yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I think that's great. So, uh, I do want to wrap up. I know you got things going on, but I did want to ask, like, after this, um, you know, attempt, I'm sure you're recovering Is there anything else that pops out to you, any challenge that you have your eyes set on next? And if so, what is that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I thought on the Appalachian Trail I was like I'm going super slow and I want to get my speed back. So I've been working a lot on my speed, my speed and for races in 2025, obviously like need to like understand, I need to like feel my body out. I need to know that I'm a hundred percent before I go into a race or an FKT. But I do have a lot of thoughts. Like I have um desires to do Western States, so I'm going to do some golden ticket races to get there.
Speaker 2:Hopefully I have desires to do Western States, so I'm going to do some golden ticket races to get there. Hopefully I have desires to do hard rock, so hopefully I get picked by the lottery that's coming up here soon. And then I also like have interest in doing the long trail in Vermont, just because it's so beautiful and, um, I have a good community out there in Vermont that I know would be super supportive, um, which is important to me having that community aspect. So those things. That's what I'm thinking, but just it's tentative, it's super tentative.
Speaker 1:Gotcha, that's awesome. One question popped up into my mind, and we'll end with this If you could give yourself one piece of advice when you're getting started in trail running specifically advice to an aspiring trail runner what would that be?
Speaker 2:If I could go back. Oh man, I just thought of something that was like dramatic, but-.
Speaker 1:Feel free to share.
Speaker 2:Oh well, yeah, I mean I would just tell myself not to buy the spring energy. Just tell myself not to buy the spring energy, not to spend the $4 and change on all the spring energy I consumed out there, but instead try to get used to something else. That's just something dramatic. If I was to go back or if I was to give a piece of advice to somebody, I would say don't be afraid, if you have a goal I've been saying this on a lot of podcasts, but I think it's like so important and it might be a little cliche, but like if you have a goal, just you know, go for it, train for it, give it all you got.
Speaker 2:If that is your goal, like to do, you know, a hundred mile race, for instance, then just do it. Like you never know if you can do, if you don't try. And I think this hundred mile distance is like this, like you know this, this thing up in the sky for a lot of people, but it is possible. With enough hard work and support and fitness, like you can get there. Um, and I say like just you know, go for it. Um, and just try. And I think a lot of people, you know, might get nervous or, you know, scared about, you know, putting their goals out there. But I think, even if you fail I think that is. I failed in 2017 and failure was super important to my story so you never know if that failure will bring you so much further in your career.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome. Well, thank you so much again for coming on the side.
Speaker 2:So you won't see it in the donation link. You'll see like $54,866, but Ultra has already donated a good chunk of money. So we're almost at a hundred thousand. I think we only have that $144 left and it would be awesome if we could get that. But it's linked in my Instagram bio and that is Tara D-O-W-E-R on Instagram, and then I am on YouTube as well, at Tara Treks T-R-E-K-S.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Well, thanks so much, Tara, for coming on the show. And everyone listening. Go out and run your race.