Behind the Conference: Meet the Minds Behind the Mediterranean Conference for Plastic Surgery Innovation (#52)

In this episode, we explore the origins, growth, and future vision of the Mediterranean Conference of Plastic Surgery Innovations, led by Dr. Kokosis and Dr. Kaoutzanis. Join us as we discuss the importance of international collaboration, innovation, and cultural exchange in advancing reconstructive and aesthetic surgery.

Key Topics:

• The inception and evolution of the Mediterranean Conference to foster regional collaboration
• Challenges and opportunities of planning a major international conference outside the U.S.
• The role of artificial intelligence in reconstructive and aesthetic microsurgery
• Building a global network of top surgeons in plastic and microsurgery
• The synergy between aesthetics and reconstruction within conference agendas
• How technological advancements like augmented reality and pattern recognition are shaping the future of surgery
• Personal insights on maintaining long-term collaborations and the significance of community in medical innovation

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Good morning everyone. Welcome to the Deep End Podcast. This one is a really cool episode because two of my really good friends have joined, George and Chris, and we've been meaning to do this. I'm joined by Hank. And the reason we wanted to do this is multifold, but we are branching out and and doing many surgeons across the field of plastic surgery, from you know younger surgeons, mid-career surgeons to late surgeons and people who are innovators. And Chris and George are definitely those who have very busy clinical practices and have contributed a lot in their early careers. I look up to them and I turn to them a lot too for advice. And so this is very special to me. But more importantly, we always kind of get into a little bit of a background before diving into the podcast. So we'll start with Chris. Chris, I've I've known you for some time. We've we've chatted a lot at conferences, even before that, when I was looking at, you know, different microsurgery fellowships and things like that. Tell us about what got you interested in plastic surgery, a little bit about your practice, your interests, and and things like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:07

Yes. Um going to med school. Of course, thanks for inviting us here. Uh it's great to be here.

SPEAKER_04 1:13

And and uh And you're in Cyprus, you're joining us from Cyprus.

SPEAKER_02 1:17

We're on the Cyprus right now, yeah. And uh being watching.

SPEAKER_04 1:20

I'm sorry you're wasting your time on the podcast in Cyprus.

SPEAKER_02 1:23

I've been watching a lot of those and I enjoy them, so thanks for for having us here. So I kind of started, obviously I grew up in in Greece and and then Cyprus. And going to med school, I thought I'd I'll be a cardiothoracic surgeon because my dad is cardiothoracic and vascular, but kind of uh me way into med school, I kind of realized that I wanted to do plastics for, you know, a bunch of different reasons, including, you know, the things that people say about the variety and and and and how cool things are, um, and all that. But um I kind of transitioned to the US and I did general surgery, surgery, microsurgery training, and I've been uh in Colorado since 2019 when I basically Yeah, and you were at plastic surgery at Tell us a little bit about your plastic surgery training and your training before your microsurgery fellowship. So I did uh coming from the coming from England, it wasn't easy to match, but I did. I went straight to general surgery training in Ann Arbor, St. Joe St. Joe's in Ann Arbor, and then after that I went to Vanderbilt for plastic surgery training. Um obviously I I followed independent pathway. And after that I matched at uh NYU was the last year was a combined fellowship. So I did NYU at MSK for a couple months. I remember that.

SPEAKER_04 2:42

Yeah, and that shows, you know, we've talked about this before with other guests about when you're coming from overseas, how you know, you have to take sometimes the longer route. And, you know, George can talk about this too when he when it gets time to him, but the the independent residency training and then, you know, kind of going where you can to start. And then clearly you went to some of the top places after that for your plastic surgery training, which is great. And it and you've been at a very strong academic program right now. Uh, what what's your practice look like?

SPEAKER_01 3:14

So my practice is it's sort of diverse. I didn't know uh something that's super interesting, uh Say, we've noticed a hot recurring theme, and a high percentage of our guests have said that they thought about cardiothoracic surgery before going into plastics. I wonder if that's something that we need to research or investigate further. I know your your father uh you know has a background, so that's for you, but it's interesting how so many of our zero. Yeah, but it's very interesting to me.

SPEAKER_02 3:42

For me, it was my dad, and also I think the the microvascular component of the cardiothoracic surgery and vascular surgery.

SPEAKER_01 3:49

Your journey into plastic surgery as well.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

Yes, again, thank you for this opportunity. I've I'm a fan of the Disney podcast. I've been watching We're a fan of you, George. Religiously. Well, thank you. But similar to Chris, as Chris said, you know, it took me 11 years from the moment I started here until I got my first job. I was two years of research. When I first came here, I went to Duke. Um, Howie Levinson uh gave me a spot in his lab, and I did two years of basic science research, built up my CV kind of network a little bit, and uh I got into the general surgery program at Duke, graduated, uh, went to Hopkins for the independent residency program where I actually met Said. We got some, we got to do some cases together when he was a journal surgery resident there. Um and then I went to Sloan Catering for a year. By the time I made it to Sloan, the they had dropped the um, you know, collaboration between the two institutions. So I got to spend 12 months at Sloan. It would have been nice to spend a couple of months at NYU as well, but nevertheless, that was a great experience. Uh, so much good training, mentors I met throughout all these years, you know, people who, you know, didn't have to help me, but that's what I like about, you know, this country. It's, you know, it's the land of opportunities, you know. You work hard, doors will open for you. And I feel like both Chris and I were like the perfect example of, you know, that kind of the American dream where, you know, you just put the effort in, you're you're gonna make it happen. So fast forward, I've been at Rush for six years now, and 90-95% of my practice is breast reconstruction. I do a lot of flaps, do implant-based reconstruction, we do some lymphedema cases here as well, and some uh breast and body contouring cases. And I'm, you know, it's it's a very, it's a very good practice. I'm very excited to be here and uh and I'm looking forward to having more discussions with you guys today.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

When did artificial intelligence uh become a focus uh in your career and when did you become interested in that? Was that a long time ago, or did it kind of match, you know, everybody else's, you know, interests and how it's exploded in recent years?

SPEAKER_00 5:54

Yeah, I will say it's it's a little bit of both. You know, I feel like I was always drawn into innovation. And if you think about it, artificial intelligence is the ultimate generational innovation. You know, it will impact our lives. It's it's almost like the internet, you know, it's here, uh, it's not going anywhere. Um, it it opens tremendous opportunities to improving administrative workflow, research, education, clinical practices, and everything. I feel like uh I I kind of started this journey a little bit early. I was one of the early adopters that was just very interested in it. Now it's becoming more of a mainstay, uh, for sure, but it's it's just nice to see how you can incorporate technology into what we do. And if you think about it, plastic surgeons, and I know you've had a lot of plastic surgery, plastic surgeon innovators in your podcast. We are very innovative people, so it's not any surprise that you know AI is getting very much into uh the plastic surgery practices just because we like to do that and embrace technology.

SPEAKER_04 6:55

George, you're you're breaking up a touch. Is your your internet's connection stable? Should be.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

It should be. Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 7:02

You're we're making out we're making out most of what you're saying. Sometimes it's like crystal clear, but then sometimes it's is that the same, Chris. Can you hear that too or no?

SPEAKER_03 7:11

Yeah, yeah. I was gonna say I was gonna kind of stop him now and just kind of figure out if there's a way to fix it a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 7:17

But do you uh is your do you have Wi-Fi?

SPEAKER_00 7:19

Yeah, it's Wi-Fi. It's Wi-Fi. I wonder it's the s it's the same Wi-Fi.

SPEAKER_04 7:24

Yeah, you you look pretty clear now.

SPEAKER_02 7:26

Yeah, you're just doing times just a little bit. I don't now you're breaking up a little bit, you know?

SPEAKER_01 7:32

Yeah. I mean, it could be worth uh taking a couple minutes to see if there's you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:37

Yeah, I wonder if if you if you can you turn off the Wi-Fi? Maybe is that an option or probably not?

SPEAKER_00 7:44

Okay, but now can you guys hear me fine or not?

SPEAKER_04 7:47

This is perfect. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

Okay. I don't know if it was just a glitch. Should we just keep going and see? No, because you do it every so often. Like right now, you're doing it. Uh I'm still doing it. Okay. Maybe I should uh maybe I should turn off the uh Wi-Fi and turn it on again.

SPEAKER_04 8:00

Can't hear you. Yeah, it's breaking up a little bit. Uh yeah. Here, let me see. Give me one second. Sometimes it's like crystal clear and other times it's uh you're breaking up and fuzzy. I mean, I could I'll try does your connection seem okay? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 8:15

I mean, if you want, you could always try going from your phone. The one thing I would say is doing your phone sideways so that it looks the same as the other screens. I I don't know that it's gonna be better. I don't know. I I'm I don't know. It's happened a couple of times with us and it's improved it, I think.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

The only reason to try the phone would be if if it would be better off if you're for whatever reason your Wi-Fi is not as strong and your cellular service would be stronger. But if not, then we could just What do you think?

SPEAKER_04 8:43

I just don't want you to be disappointed afterwards. You're okay? Do you want to try George?

SPEAKER_00 8:47

Try to try let me try my phone.

SPEAKER_04 8:50

Yeah, yeah, because this this all this we can yeah, all of this we can edit. So try your phone and then we'll see.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

Now, do you do you still do I still sound choppy?

SPEAKER_04 8:59

Not now, but it's like every 10 or 15 seconds. But now you do. Like you go in and out of being blurry and choppy.

SPEAKER_00 9:05

All right, okay. Well, let me uh let me see if I can join from give me one second. No problem. It's asking me to download the app. Sorry, guys. No problem. It's still like that, huh?

SPEAKER_04 9:14

Yeah, a little bit. But I think I think Hank's right. I think if you join from your phone, we've had that happen before to other people. I think it'll be fine. And most of this that people listen to with the audio, and we just use a little a couple of clips for I wonder if I could do the iPod, or maybe not. No, because it's Wi-Fi. It's gonna be Wi-Fi.

SPEAKER_02 9:30

You want a cellular connection, right?

SPEAKER_04 9:32

Yeah, you need a cellular connection. Yeah. Give me one second. The same thing happened with your buddy Kavami, and he had to do his phone. Is that right?

SPEAKER_01 9:39

He was in the lobby of a hotel.

SPEAKER_04 9:44

There's been a few other people like that. Okay, let's see. You guys gonna play this? Hopefully soon. I mean, so that we can start to advertise for the conference. Yeah, which we'll get into in a second. All right, but now get out of your other one. It's already better, George. It's already better, yeah. Yeah, I think that that's gonna be perfect. I think.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

Yeah, if you just turn Yeah Okay, how how do I sound like definitely better? Is it you sound great? Yeah, you sound great. We just need you to like on uh to show your camera, your video. No, he is showing his video. I see his video. Really? You guys can see me or not?

SPEAKER_03 10:17

Chris, can you see him? I can see yeah, I can see you. Really?

SPEAKER_00 10:20

Yeah. And do I have to change the that's fine?

SPEAKER_04 10:22

Do I have to change the orientation or it's good? No, I think sideways is best. It's it's always awkward when people go up and down, and we're four people, so I think that this makes the most sense. Yeah. Okay, I mean, is this good? I think it's fine. As the the most important thing is making sure that the audio is is crisp. The video we just share for like a few segments, but the audio being crisp. I mean, does he look blurry to you, Chris, at all? Or no? A little bit blurry. It's a little bit blurry, it goes in and out. Okay. You're not your Wi-Fi or on your own. No, I turned I turned off the Wi-Fi.

SPEAKER_01 10:55

You turn off the Wi-Fi. Okay. So what are you thinking? Just continue. I mean, the audio is the most important thing. That's how most people listen. And when we edit the video, when we edit the video, we'll only use portions of his screen when he's not blurry. Yeah. Otherwise, we can have it on, you know.

SPEAKER_04 11:10

Yeah. Okay. And we'll just say your uh your podcast.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

We'll say you're the one in Greece.

SPEAKER_03 11:16

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we'll just kind of switch it. I know, right? Well, you're used to doing it.

SPEAKER_04 11:23

All right, well, here why don't you repeat the producer? Why don't you repeat the part you're talking about with artificial intelligence?

SPEAKER_01 11:29

Yeah. So just if you could talk to us about how AI and reconstructive surgery kind of complement each other and where you, you know, see that moving forward.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

I was always drawn into innovation, and I think that the artificial intelligence is the ultimate generational innovation that we are all going to be using to improve our practices, workflows, educational research. Pertinent to what we do as uh reconstructive microsurgeons, you know, reconstruction requires a lot of preoperative planning, then execution and preoperative care of patients. And this is where artificial intelligence, by leveraging a lot of data, can help with each one of those steps. So, for example, for preoperative planning, you know, there's all these AI-based clinical decision tools that help with algorithmic approach to, you know, making decisions for surgery. There's an overlap between artificial intelligence and imaging technologies like augmented reality, where you can pretty much visualize the procedure before you even make it to the operating room. And a lot of these things are just very rudimentary at this point. They will only evolve and get better. When it comes to the actual execution of the procedure, there's a lot of video analysis that can help you by visualizing the microsurgical anastomosis, the perforate dissection. It can predict outcomes, which is very unique if you think about it. But this is going to be the future. Same thing with patient care. What artificial intelligence is, is pattern recognition. So there's a lot of things that we cannot see with the human eye, and artificial intelligence can almost like alarm you before a complication will happen. So think about this. You know, you're doing something in the OR, and you you you may be alarmed that the patient, you know, will have a um thrombosis, or a patient is developing an infection and it's not clinically evident. All these things, it's it's gonna make our life so much better. And it's not that it will replace us, it's gonna be complementary to what we do. And that's why I think it's very exciting times for us.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

Speaking of complimentary, I wanted to talk about you guys and your, you know, partnership and this uh incredible duo that you guys have built. I'm cu I'm curious how you guys first met and when you realize.

SPEAKER_04 13:46

Yeah, let's see. You know, the only thing that I ever heard about Greek people is that most Greek people want to be Lebanese until I met you guys. And then my whole vision about Greek people has changed. I actually really like you all. Thank you, Sarah.

SPEAKER_03 14:00

We're so different. Good different.

SPEAKER_04 14:02

So tell us about your partnership and like where it all started, where you guys met and things like that.

SPEAKER_02 14:06

We um we we actually met during one of the I think it was so conferences. And um uh obviously we trained at different institutions and we didn't know each other before that, but kind of we quickly realized that we had kind of similar interests, not only plastic surgery-wise, but also kind of education-wise, academically international collaboration, things like that. Um we kind of stay in touch around that time and and slowly we started collaborating a little bit more. Um I mean, we kind of share the same vision to do this meeting, right? So, and at some point we kind of decided that we wanted to move forward with it. And uh, I mean, we we do a lot of other things together, we collaborate academically, we do papers together and things like that. But that was uh I think the turning point where we started doing a lot more work together.

SPEAKER_04 15:04

And then where did that come up? Like who who brought it up in conversation? Like who was talking to the other person? Were you guys because I know talking to both of you individually, you've all had an interest, you both have had an interest in being clinical in Greece. And so how did it, how did the idea even come up? And where did you find a need for it? You know, one thing that Hank and I always talk about, which is why we love this podcast, is that we have so many conferences, right? We have so many conferences. Like I can name five without even thinking. But then you guys started this conference and it and it's exploded and it it clearly filled a gap that most people wanted. So, what was your original idea and uh the vision behind it?

SPEAKER_00 15:44

Well, yeah, I I was about to say that it's interestingly enough, we both had the same idea separately. And when we started, you know, when we met each other, as Chris said a few years back, we both said, Oh, you know, I was thinking of starting a meeting in Greece. And I think the background is, you know, you're an international graduate, you come to this country, you know, the idea behind and the the paperwork, when you fill the paperwork initially and you apply for visas, the whole idea is that you'll come here, you'll learn something, you'll take it back to your country, right? And uh, and honestly, a lot of this is you you come here, you learn so much, you network, you meet all these people, and you're like, I want to be able to bring this to my country, right? And I feel like both Chris and I had the same vision. It's Greece, the Mediterranean is far from the US. There's high-quality meetings here and world-renowned surgeons that for us, you just travel two hours away on a plane and you can go and uh watch them talk. And so for us, it was more like let's bring all these expertise from all over the world, not just the US, but all these expertise into our neck of the woods and allow the people there, the regional plastic surgeons, to just have a short trip to come and see them. If that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

Yeah. And I want to just uh, you know, plant and say the, you know, that this meeting, it's the third annual Mediterranean conference of plastic surgery innovations. And I'm just curious, you know, how difficult it must be, you know, to plan a meeting in in the US, but to plan a meeting out of the country in the Mediterranean, I'm sure there's so many more hurdles and things that people don't appreciate. So I just want to thank you guys for that. It sounds like it's gonna be incredible. I've never been, but I'm excited to go this year. And I'm just curious, you know, when you guys were planning this, did you guys think, you know, we have to bring something different to the table if we're gonna get attract these people to come all this way? How can we bring, you know, a new angle to what's already out there?

SPEAKER_04 17:40

And then the other thing that I'll mention too, before you guys jump on that, is that one thing that I love about it personally is the fact that it combines aesthetics and recon. That's one of the things that I love about ASPS. So, anyways.

SPEAKER_02 17:51

Yeah, let's start with the uh study in recon. But I think the the first year, what we wanted to do, there was a gap in microsurgery in this region, right? I'm in Cyprus right now, so I can stay in this region because I'm here. But a lot of people shy away from microsurgery because they don't have potentially training on seeing a huge number of cases, or they don't have their people to discuss this case, their colleagues to discuss cases with, right? So, and all the the support that they need. So we started this with the uh with the understanding we wanted to fill that gap, right? So in the first meeting was actually only microsurgery, it was based on microsurgery. And uh it was very successful, but then the second time around, we thought, you know, modern plastic surgery is reconstruction and aesthetics combined, right? So even though many of the innovations develop in reconstruction, they eventually influence aesthetic surgery and vice versa. So we thought that we should combine the two and allow surgeons to kind of cross-pollinate their ideas in in some in some way, shape, or form during the meeting, right? Because we shouldn't be kind of thinking in in silos. And that's why we kind of uh brought the aesthetic portion into it, and it was actually very successful second year around, and uh wanted to continue that this year as well.

SPEAKER_04 19:16

So So you talked about the original concept, the recon, the cosmetic aspect of it. So you go from this idea to then you guys both agreeing, okay, we have to do this. Who did you run it by people, like mentors and and tell them, you know, we have this great idea, we want to do it, or did you just run with it? And and when you ultimately decided you wanted to do it, what are the steps? Like if for anybody in the future who wanted it, because this is a hugely successful meeting. You guys have done it so well, it's extremely well attended, and people are super honored to go. What are the steps from, okay, I have this great idea now? How do I bring this idea into a reality?

SPEAKER_00 19:55

So I will say that the success of this meeting is just the it's the epitome of community. In other words, you have your network, you have people that you work with, you know, we go to all these meetings, we collaborate, we talk to people. Both Chris and I, because we had uh, you know, we had long pathways, we went through so many different institutions, met so many great people along the way. And when it was time to put something together, we had a long list of people that we felt comfortable reaching out, asking them whether they would want to um come and support us. The other thing is if you think about it, it's a little bit like a destination wedding. You know, who doesn't want to go to either Cyprus or Greece or Crete this year or Athens, you know, a couple of years ago or Crete this year in the summer, have a great time. And so all these things together, they only made sense. Um then Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:52

And do what they you do what you love and you have a good time at the same time. So you give your talk, you educate people, and they have a good time at the same time at a great location. So it's just hard to beat that.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

Yeah, and I I actually want to give you guys, you know, a few moments to just like broadcast, you know, about this year's meeting, as you just alluded to in Crete, why it's gonna be special, who's gonna be there, what can people expect, and why people should you know should make the trip out there.

SPEAKER_00 21:21

Chris, you want to take a stop with it?

SPEAKER_02 21:23

Yeah, I mean, it's a um it's a meeting where we have a lot of great speakers from all over, right? Obviously, we're trying to bring um American speakers to the region, but it will also involve um speakers from the region, renowned speakers from the region. Uh I would call it a a a remarkably approachable and friendly meeting. What I mean by that is that uh faculty don't just disappear after the lectures, like some of the bigger meetings around. They they hang out together with. With the attendees, they're willing to discuss cases and kind of meet people. And those we hope that those relationships will continue after the meeting, right? I think that's the important thing for a lot of these attendees who want to not just learn but also network and maintain some of those relationships for supporting whether that's their practice or their training the future and things like that.

SPEAKER_01 22:22

Are there some big names that you want to share that are gonna be there or topics that are gonna be discussed if if it's if it's already set in stone or not?

SPEAKER_02 22:32

Yeah, so the the program is actually live, and we do have a draft of the program. We don't have the the very finalized program, but facial rejuvenation, some of the bigger names in the industry, Rory, some of the Gavami, some of the local people. You have um serodemas and conduce, uh, who will be the president of ISAPs this this coming year. Um and then rhinoplasty, it's gonna be mostly uh kind of preservation rhinoplasty. And on top of uh Rory G and Gavami, we also have Erhan Kaskun, who's a local kind of Turkish uh surgeon who's one of the pioneers of preservation rhinoplasty. And then we have body contouring and breast. Body contouring, uh some of our fellow Greeks like Babis uh Ramos from the States as well, Evangelis Guerramidas from Greece, and then have Steinberg, you have uh Kavami, Andre Marshall, Ahmad Saad, uh lots of big big names from all over the world, and and Brest. Again, we have big names in Brad Calabrassi, um, is one of the the bigger names for that session. But uh there's there's a lot of other names. See Pfeiffer, Ed Hidalgo, also um somebody who's very well uh renowned in the field, not just for breast, but for face and other things as well. And um, yeah, lots of different names.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

It's uh it's just incredible, incredible. And it's also a credit to you guys for what you've built to be able to draw those kinds of names and people to come speak at your conference just shows what a special thing that you guys have built.

SPEAKER_00 24:18

So I'm sure that makes you guys you know proud and expect both the aesthetic and the reconstructive program is the who is who of you know, aesthetic surgery, reconstructive surgery. We encourage people to the program is up, it's live on our website. Uh, there's so many names, so many people that will honor us with, you know, their participation. And I mean, I would I cannot, you know, not mention that Dr. Saed Azuri will also be there. So, you know, it's a great opportunity for everyone to uh to to get to it to to talk to him.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

Yeah. Thanks. There will there will be some deep end podcasts uh that are going on if that makes people want to go or if that makes less people want to go. I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_04 24:59

Thanks so much for inviting us to do that. That's gonna be a lot of fun. And you're and you're gonna be and you're I want to hear about like what that partnership offers for the conference. But yeah, so thank you very much for inviting Hank and I. We're we're super excited. And you're you guys are allowing us to do it during the coffee sessions, which will be a lot of fun. And and our vision, Hank and I have been kind of talking on the side, our vision is kind of do a 50-50 split with recon and and aesthetic surgery to highlight some of the the amazing speakers that you guys have. And it it's pretty impressive, you know. Since day one, I've been following this conference, and you guys never invited me to the first or the second one. But but since day one, I was following it, and even at your first conference and say we invited you, but you didn't want to come. Yeah. But you had like, you know, the who's who in plastic surgery since your first conference, really. And I think it'd be really neat if you guys broke down, I'm sure you're doing this, but broke you should do even a publication or something, but break down the attendees and the the guests, like the uh faculty based on country. Um I think that that would be really exciting.

SPEAKER_02 26:05

And we've we've we've done that actually. We've done the first, well, the second meeting, we had people from about 15 countries, I think 16 countries, something like 15 states in the United States. Uh first one. The second one, we had more than 25 countries. And it was from all over the world. Uh again, a bunch of different states from the US. And so we we're trying to keep track of that. And and we also had a lot of abstracts this year, close to 100 abstracts. And you can see places like Philippines and and other places. I don't know how um some of these people hear about the meeting, but it's impressive to see that people from all over the world are interested to come. In terms of the the collaboration with Aesthetic Society, uh, we also collaborate with the Aesthetic Society and also with ISAPs. And opportunities for membership, a lot of prices for both of those organizations. And I think the great opportunity for someone who's interested in joining those organizations.

SPEAKER_00 27:07

So I'll I'll encourage everybody to get on our website and just click on the proudest moment for me was when I was in Prague for the uh Euromicro meeting, and someone approached me and they said, Um, there's this conference that is happening in Crete this year, the Mediterranean. I said, Oh, you know what, this is our meeting. Um the reason why I say that is amazing. As you said, there has been an exponential growth of, you know, um, this meeting started from a small group of friends getting together, having some talks to now. Um, our challenge now is that there's so many people from all over the world that we would like to invite, but um, you know, it's still a small meeting. And I think the challenge moving forward will be how can we get as many of these amazing surgeons to come and, you know, share their expertise without making it too big of a meeting. So I think that's a little bit of a challenge.

SPEAKER_04 28:02

A huge challenge. And it it's uh it's a juggling act. You know, we deal with the same thing with the pen flap course where we have, you know, so many attendees from all over the country, all over the US, and then you feel bad not inviting the people that have come in the past. So you tend to invite a lot of the same people, but then you want to branch out. So it is a juggling act. But I could imagine the feeling that you is like how you felt when somebody came up to you and and that being a a very proud moment. So is there gonna be like a special themed, like welcome? Like you should have a like an all-white party. I think that that's like an all-white party on the beach or something like that. We talked about that. We did. What's what's your like do you have like a welcome event or something?

SPEAKER_00 28:40

Or a thing. I will have to say, what was what was um um what we try to make unique about is not just bring the same speakers from you know other parts of the world, just in in Greece or Cyprus, but also give it a little bit of a local cultural twist to it. So starting from the first meeting, our social events were very, you know, included like local dishes, obviously, uh, you know, food, as well as dancers, things that are very specific to the local culture. And I think we're gonna try and do something similar this year uh with Crete. Crete, they are people from Crete, they're very proud of their food, their olive oil, as well as their dancing. So there's gonna be a lot of that.

SPEAKER_04 29:27

If you had to like sum up the future of the meeting, what would you say? Like, what what is what is your goal for the future? Chris, Chris. So I also like it.

SPEAKER_02 29:35

I would like to see this being one of the premier international meetings, not not necessarily just the biggest meeting, but one that's kind of not only exceptional education, but also for meaningful networking, and also for innovation and the way things are presented, and also something that is fun for people to go and have a good time while they're taking advantage of everything else. We we also hope, and I think George has the same vision as me, to serve as a bridge between different regions of the world, right? To kind of be able to bring people in the Mediterranean from all kinds of different places.

SPEAKER_00 30:18

I was about to also say that, you know, the Mediterranean, the geographic region of the Mediterranean is more than just Greece and Cyprus, obviously. So hopefully in the future, we can get all these other neighboring countries to be more involved. We have speakers. Uh, maybe in the future we can have the meeting being uh hosted in other countries uh as well. Maybe, Saeed, you can be a co-host for a Lebanese version of the Mediterranean meeting in the future. The hospitality. So people have to not just experience a scientifically sound conference, but also the hospitality of those people over there. And that's something that I think will be the stable of this meeting.

SPEAKER_02 30:58

Yeah. And we're trying to find people who take on this meeting and treat it, I guess, with so much love like we did, right? To to show their country in a way that people want to see it when they come and visit for two or three days.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

Yeah. Well, we want to thank you so much for taking the time to join us on the deep end podcast. I think this is gonna get everybody super excited to come to this meeting. I know we are, and we're uh and we're honored to, you know, come as the deep end podcast to do some live, some live uh episodes while we're there. But two final questions uh that I have to ask since you guys are guests on the deep end, and we always ask these are what music do you listen to in the OR and what is your favorite surgical instrument? Whoever wants to go first.

SPEAKER_00 31:41

I I listened to some EDM music and we've thought that available. I usually ask them to just type a mykonos, Scorpios I was gonna say club.

SPEAKER_01 31:53

That's the number one club in the world, I think.

SPEAKER_00 31:55

I saw yes, some nice vibes there. Music is great. And my favorite instrument is macabe. It allows you to do fine dissection. I agree. I love that instrument. That's a popular one, Chris.

SPEAKER_02 32:07

That's not fair because you went first, and I was gonna say McCabe is my favorite instrument too. So that's that's why we're thinking of another, you know. Right, yeah, exactly. So yeah, McCabe is my my favorite instrument as well. In terms of um and the bobey too, right? The boby's green, right? Because you can go through anything you want. But uh but uh use it, music, um it's uh usually I let the resonance pick, but hipster barbecue is one of my my favorite picks, you know?

SPEAKER_04 32:34

Yeah, that was like that was like an original from from way back when. I think we were listening to that in in George and I at Hopkins. Yeah, hipster barbecue hipster barbecue.

SPEAKER_01 32:45

Last question What is one dish everyone should try when they're in Crete? That's the hardest question.

SPEAKER_00 32:51

It's not just one, or whichever comes to your mind first. So much amazing food. One thing that they do, they do those small cheese pie with honey, and it combines that, you know, a savory with savory with a little bit of it's so it's great. It's so good, but all food is amazing. That sounds great. I do want to say one more thing. You know, so we were all at um PSRC where you guys did the first live session, and I have to say it went very, very well, right? So it was a room full of people. I feel that you know that was a good opportunity to see how doing a live podcast can go. So I'm encouraging people, well, you know, we'll make it, we'll post it on our website when those sessions are gonna be, but they definitely have to attend those. They're gonna be great.

SPEAKER_02 33:37

Thank you so much. We appreciate it. And you have some great people too. I mean, these are visionaries in the field, so I think that combined with with your delivery, I think it's gonna be amazing.

SPEAKER_03 33:49

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_04 33:50

It's so much honored. I'm I'm gonna start packing right after this podcast, actually. All right. Well, we know that you guys have another session after this, so we'll let you go. We should do another one of these recordings either before the conference or right after conference to to reflect on it. But this, I'm super excited. I mean, huge congratulations to both of you. This the conference comes up at every other conference, and and people are always talking about it and waiting for their invitation. So huge congratulations. I'm sure you're both incredibly proud to bring this to your to your home country. What a special, special feeling.

SPEAKER_02 34:25

Thanks. Thank you guys for having us. We appreciate it. Thank you. We uh we're looking forward to welcoming you to create this year.

SPEAKER_01 34:32

Stop the recording innovations. And I'm just curious, you know, how difficult it must be, you know, to plan a meeting in in the US, but to plan a meeting out of the country in the Mediterranean out of there, Chicago there. Wow. I mean, it's uh it's just incredible, incredible. And it's also a credit to you guys for what you've built to be able to draw those kinds of names and people to come speak at your conference just shows what a special thing that you guys have built. So I'm sure that makes you guys, you know, proud and excited. Well, we want to thank you so much for taking the time to join us on the deep end podcast. I think this is gonna get everybody super excited to come to this meeting. I know we are, and we're uh and we're honored to, you know, come as the deep end podcast to do some live, some live uh episodes while we're there. But two final questions uh that I have to ask since you guys are guests on the deep end and we always ask these are what music do you listen to in the OR and what is your favorite surgical instrument? Whoever wants to go first. Nice. I was gonna say nice. That's the number one club in the world, I think I saw. It was rated. Yeah. That's a popular one. That's awesome. Okay. Last last question. What is one dish everyone should try when they're in Crete? Or whichever comes to your mind first? That sounds good. That sounds good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you so much. We appreciate it. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you.