How Blockchain Verifies Plastic Recovery and Environmental Impact

Join us as we speak with André Vanyi-Robin, Founder and CEO of Plastiks, alongside Ana Aguilar Meca, COO, and Delfina Achinelly, Head of Methodology and Verification, about how blockchain can bring transparency to plastic recovery and recycling systems. This episode explores how Plastiks uses Cardano to verify plastic collection and recycling data, create digital recovery certificates, and support environmental compliance through measurable proof of impact. The conversation also covers MRV systems, extended producer responsibility legislation, and how verified environmental data can help governments, enterprises, and communities scale more transparent circular economy initiatives.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Welcome to Let's Talk Cardano, presented by the Cardano Foundation. In each episode, we delve deep into the transformative world of blockchain technology. Join us as we explore how blockchain is reshaping industries from finance to supply chain and talk with some of the key pioneers at the forefront of this revolution. All right here on Let's Talk Cardano.

SPEAKER_05 0:26

In this episode of Let's Talk Cardano, we speak with the plastics team about how blockchain can verify plastic recovery, support environmental compliance, and enable transparent measurement and reporting systems.

SPEAKER_06 0:38

So hello everybody and welcome to Let's Talk Cardano. Thank you so much for joining us today. Today we're joined by the Plastics team, which is a climate tech company who's using Cardano as core infrastructure for plastic recovery, recycling, and reporting. So Plastics is also right now proposing a project catalyst fund 15 initiative, which is focused on national level measuring, reporting, and validation systems, also known as MRV, and I think colloquially known as MRV, along with UNDP country teams. So their goal is simple but ambitious. They want to make verified plastic recovery transparent, auditable, and scalable, all while using the Cardano blockchain. So we have Andre with us, founder and CEO of Plastics, who's leading the company's strategy and work with public institutions. Thank you. Thank you, Jacob. We also have Anna, the CEO, overseeing operations and delivery, including the Catalyst Fund 15 proposal.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

Thank you.

SPEAKER_06 1:37

And then we have Delphina, head of methodology and verification, who's leading verification and impact methodology.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

Thank you, Jacob.

SPEAKER_06 1:45

Thank you so much all for joining. It's great to have you here with me, and I think we can go ahead and get started. So, first question is to Andre. I think to begin, we could just start with a brief introduction of plastics. Essentially, what problem are you trying to solve? And what exactly are you building?

SPEAKER_04 2:01

Well, thank you very much, uh Jacob. Ultimately, the company I founded six years ago um addressing the waste management industry, because in the eyes of the public, there was always a lack of transparency in that industry. And since the industry was built on two revenue sources, one of them being the collection of plastic waste, and the other one being the sorting and selling of that plastic waste as a feedstock, the uh philosophy of the company is uh to incentivize transparency by providing a third revenue source in the form of being able to sell the data. What data? Well, the data that guarantees that the waste is being collected and being recycled. And this data to be uh sold in the form of digital certificates, which we call plastic credits, which effectively can be used for extended producer responsibility compliance, environmental law compliance, to create financial instruments such as plastic credits to finance additional positive environmental impact, and to also create uh carbon avoidance credits uh to be able to incentivize the use of recycled plastics in the manufacturing process. So the vision uh carried out over the last six years essentially to focus on verifying that the waste is collected and recycled and tokenizing that data for those three uses.

SPEAKER_06 3:23

It's pretty fascinating, and I really am a personal fan of what you guys are building. Um, and so I'm I'm curious personally about the blockchain aspect. So you've chosen Cardano as your base layer, and you're proposing to use it as true national infrastructure. So a couple questions. Why did you choose Cardano to build on? And why do you think it's the right blockchain to use at a government scale?

SPEAKER_04 3:47

Well, we started initially with a cello blockchain. Um, and uh eventually, as we were also doing product market fit uh from the beginning, uh it was a B2C model. And eventually, uh three years ago, uh coinciding with the leadership of uh Anna as Chief Operating Officer and uh Delphi on board as head of methodology, we decided to really go into a B2B uh format. And the blockchain eventually, Cardano, that was best suited for that, was because of its environmental footprint. Obviously, it has proof-of-stake protocol. Uh from the cost predictability, very important to be able to tell our customers, enterprises, uh, what is the cost of usage of the blockchain to tokenize the waste recovery data. Um, and obviously, from the perspective of uh longevity, uh Cardano has been uh uh really uh for many years, uh the experience we had with Cello, wonderful, but it went from L1 to L2. Um, and ultimately uh enterprises and governments need stability and risk avoidance. And uh ultimately Cardano brings that uh in the in the pos in the ecosystem uh in terms of its governance procedures uh and low-risk deployment. And when we're working with governments and enterprises, that is what they need.

SPEAKER_06 5:08

So green, cheap, longevity. Sounds like you touched on a few points there, a few different strengths of Cardano. I would add predictability. Predictability.

SPEAKER_04 5:21

Yeah. Governments need to know that when they're using the platform, uh, what the budgets are on an annual basis, and you can't uh basically have unforeseen costs. Uh so uh having cost ranges uh that are predictable is what ultimately uh Cardano offered uh as an enterprise solution.

SPEAKER_06 5:39

Incredible. Thanks so much for that. You're welcome. And now I'd like to turn to Anna about the Fund 15 proposal. Um so could you tell me a bit about what you're proposing here with plastics and what does success in Fund 15 look like for you? And what does success look like for Cardano?

SPEAKER_02 5:55

We proposal is around you were mentioned before, the measurement reporting and verification system adoption in country level. In this case, with the pilots, we are starting with Armenia thanks to UNDP, and El Salvador thanks to UNDP. Uh the success of this is that we deliver a working system uh for people to use. Which people? Um governments, operators, auditors, uh way speakers. So this system has to be adapted. That the technology and the blockchain is a breach of environmental impact and uh social impact, and in a country-level uh stage. And for Cardano success means like um is uh is a case of real utility and real utility for on-chain records uh to prove the impact and as well to scale to more countries.

SPEAKER_06 7:01

And so, what makes Armenia and El Salvador a good a good starting point for plastics?

SPEAKER_02 7:07

Thanks, I have to say, thanks to the Emurgo Labs uh was like an accelerator. We have two two sessions with them, and we have these country uh offers like they are working and they were looking for uh a project like this. They are for us good starting points because, in the case of Armenia, um they are designing uh to implement the legislation of the EPR, the extender producer responsibility legislation this year. And as a country, they want to have, and as a new country on board this legislation, they want to have another layer of this way to work, that is the technology and the traceability verification on-chain, thanks to our platform, but as well as the layer to have a blockchain in Cardano that mentioned by Andre is trust because of rates, of budget, of the way to use, of the reputation Cardano has. Uh, but El Salvador as well, I'm a Latin American, so I'm from Venezuela, and uh work with El Salvador is something that is close to my culture, so it's as well good to good personal relation, but put again the technology in their um moment of the legislation because they have started the legislations and these kind of um uh wins that help us because the legislation and the technology in blockchain is is really good model then to escalate to other countries.

SPEAKER_06 9:04

Amazing. So it sounds like these two countries were all just quite well-suited starting points for you, and then the work with UNTP expedited that. Super interesting. And are you expanding uh to any other countries in the future or do you have other plans?

SPEAKER_02 9:21

Uh I'm I would like this complete the question by Andre.

SPEAKER_04 9:25

Uh yes, uh well, I actually actually the uh uh uh countries that we're working in, uh El Salvador, Armenia, uh, are countries, as Anna mentioned, that do not have uh extended producer responsibility legislation in place and are actually in the process of implementing. So you have uh 198 countries in the world, uh 63 of which do have extended producer responsibility for the last uh 20 years. Uh, most of them are in Europe. They started without blockchain, and in the countries that do not have it, uh they're considering leapfrogging into blockchain because, as Anna mentioned, they want to uh embed in the uh compliance infrastructure uh the traceability and the transparency. So all of the countries uh across the world that are in the process of adopting EPR are for us uh our green field. And uh ultimately the importance of working with uh Armenia and El Salvador is precisely to showcase how uh Cardano blockchain uh infrastructure can be part of a national uh compliance infrastructure uh for all the waste actors involved.

SPEAKER_06 10:41

Awesome. Well, I'm I'm looking forward to seeing where you guys are expanding in the future. It sounds like there's a lot of opportunity there.

SPEAKER_04 10:46

Thank you. Thank you. You said was it 68 countries? 63 have it and 198 in total. So we've got more than uh 100 countries uh plus that are uh uh greenfield.

SPEAKER_06 10:58

So the world is your oyster.

SPEAKER_04 11:00

Well, we aspire to be the world reference in basically plastic recovery uh verification and tokenization of data. So uh greenfield. Run. Perfect.

SPEAKER_02 11:12

Yes, and and we are clear about to create this structure, a system that around the compliance and traceability altogether as a as a value of the proof.

SPEAKER_06 11:22

And and on that topic of proof, I'm a bit curious about how that how those verified kilos of plastic actually get onto the blockchain. So, how do you ensure that the plastic recovery is recorded on a Cardano in an accurate, trustworthy, and tamper resistant manner? I guess this one's a question for Delphina.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

So, first of all, uh our methodology is based and aligned with ISO. Actually, we do have the ISO 9001 certified last year. That's a really important achievement for us. That means that the world recognized the international standard ISO, so we are very, very good position. And secondly, we have the methodology that previously any entity that wants to start issuing uh digital recovery certificates into the blockchain must uh be part of an accreditation process. And this process is a 360 verification of many topics like sustainability, quality, environment, health and safety, finances. So we assure that the entity is ready and it's credible, trustworthy, and they are ready to do uh operations into the blockchain. So when the time comes and the entity is uh ready to start issuing the certificates, we assure that the triple documentation, that's a terminology that we have into plastics, uh, means that we ensure that an invoice, a proof of payment, and a weigh bill are um very good. The documentation that we need and they upload it correctly into the blockchain. So uh verifying all the processes since the beginning, since the the very first contact with the entity, that's how we ensure that uh we can provide very good uh data, technically like uh very trustable, and it's uh uh temper proof.

SPEAKER_06 13:35

Interesting. And this accreditation, is it um is it done by a third party or how how is that process carried out?

SPEAKER_00 13:42

Okay, it's done by us, it's a methodology designed 100% per plastics and biplastics, and it's as I mentioned before, it's aligned with ISO integrated management system. That means it's aligned with ISO 14001, 4501, and 1901. Uh based on my background, I am internal auditor for all of those ISOs. Uh that's that's why we built up the methodology with that alignment, because in the future, and right now we know that it's important to be recognized and be strong since the beginning. And also because every requirement was carefully designed to be achieved by any entity in the world. I mean, although it is an accreditation process, we know that there are different um realities across the world, and it's not the same, one country to another. So it's not the same, for instance, uh Spain, an accreditation process with an entity in Spain rather than in El Salvador or a country in Africa. We know that, and then we we did our best to find out the best methodology that can be replicated in every country.

SPEAKER_06 15:09

Amazing. So it sounds like you're you're tailoring the accreditation process based on where these organizations are from, to some extent.

SPEAKER_04 15:16

And it's important to note, Jacob, that that uh customization is standardized. So ultimately uh the customization is standardized per country. And then uh on the platform, uh with AI tools, uh, the documentation are uploaded as per the standardized accreditation for that country. Um and that way we can ensure consistency across the world uh where we're operating, because we are operating in 22 different countries. Um and that obviously, uh, since we've been in business for the last six years and the methodology has been developed, it has been precisely the secret source of how to standardize accreditation and verification in each of those jurisdictions.

SPEAKER_02 15:59

It's like find the balance between, as I mentioned, Delphina, uh obviously the standards of the procedure of the methodology of uh the alignment with the ISO, the tailor mate of every culture and structure or system that is not the same as Spain, that Kenya, or that uh in Armenia. And so understand this and the scale to use technology to be more efficient with timings and with the use of trusted trust data that was mentioned, Delphi has the trustable data.

SPEAKER_06 16:35

Interesting. So then once these entities are accredited, they they're free to upload their uh plastic credits or their verified kilos on onto the plastics platform.

SPEAKER_04 16:46

Correct. Uh that documentation is uploaded, uh verified by AI tools and manual intervention. Uh, and then they are allowed to, according to smart contracts, mint the uh SIP68 uh NFTs uh which capture uh certain data points: uh invoice number, date of invoice, type of polymer, quantity of polymer, and of course the destination. And those data points are the ones that are uh therefore on NFT and are showcased in a standard Web2 dashboard, which are used effectively for the uh EPR compliance. However, if you want to uh transfer the ownership uh of those uh uh NFTs, um the platform allows for our customers to create dashboards for their customers, and so therefore they can link these uh NFTs to the underlying waste that is being shipped uh and delivered. If they want to sell these uh certificates as uh plastic credits to become funding mechanisms for additional impact, basically selling the ownership, they have to link them to what we call roadmaps. Perhaps, Delphi, you can give uh talk a little bit more about the roadmap, also, which is a process subject to standardization.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

Yes, and also it's very interesting what roadmaps uh can bring because we uh we set the roadmaps together with the entities based on their needs, uh and we assure that they have uh a very strong environmental or social impact. And because of the uh plastic credits environment, uh the social component is very, very strong compared, for instance, with the carbon markets. We we know that the waste management systems uh attract and also are the work for many, many families around the world. Um we, for example, we have roadmaps across the world that uh empower the workers. For instance, we provide uh we provide the roadmap to buy personal protective equipment to enhance their working day, and other types of uh roadmaps that we have, for instance, are the purchase of machinery that can provide more material recovery and also material uh conversion to other types of products, and also environmental uh ecosystems uh cleanups. That's important because also the the cleanups to clean up uh nearby ecosystems uh means that the society are involved. So also we want always and we try to involve the community. We try to make impact locally where the entity is.

SPEAKER_06 19:54

It sounds really meaningful, like really meaningful, rewarding work.

SPEAKER_00 19:59

Yes, and and we know that we have that power. So we try and we do our best on our daily basis. We work very hard and we always uh are in communication with the entities. I mean, we build up a relationship with them because we want to really get to know them because uh we want to try to make plastics a really powerful uh tool for them.

SPEAKER_06 20:27

Yeah, that's really great to hear.

SPEAKER_04 20:29

And by doing that, you're basically encouraging uh usage because our business model is based on usage uh in terms of upload documentation, have it verified by the platform and tokenized on Cardano. And we're charging one cent per kilo uh for the use of the entire platform, uh for the infrastructure, the processing, the verification, the dashboards, everything is all included in that price. So obviously, it's very important to encourage all of the companies that are working with us, the entities, uh, to really uh understand how to get maximum benefit uh of the uh transparency and traceability that the platform affords them.

SPEAKER_06 21:07

Incredible. So I've heard a lot of different stakeholders thrown around in this in this conversation. We have regulators, auditors, recyclers, public institutions and governments. Um I have a question for Anna, which is how do you design a product that satisfies everybody? How do you design a product that really satisfies all involved stakeholders?

SPEAKER_02 21:27

In our platform, the product we are using, uh the principle is one source of trust. So the different screens for each role. So the role is the stakeholder that is a regulator or an auditor has different user flow uh screens in the platform. Is the regulator maybe because they are using one of that they can use to check other things that they need. Uh the same trust that uh we have with uh with um With a stakeholder that is an entity. They need the UI experience in the different interfaces with a very UX research we made following the methodologies as well, and following the market feedback, we uh has another user flow. So it's the same platform, but we know which uh which is every stakeholder, every user persona use the platform according to their needs. And uh this is uh the way we were building, and I have to say, six years as well, we were building uh in the beginning a platform to the use of B2C, now to the use to B2B or institutional. So, as well, it's a daily work that we are making receiving market feedback, and then we are adapting with the methodology and the automatization, of course, to the standards as a as a service, as a technology, as a service. And uh in that uh way we are creating this data, we are collecting of all these workflows, and clearly every user flow is different stakeholders or different kinds of user flows. I don't know if you want to add something more, Delphi, about this and and Andre, but the global of how works the product in or the building of the product is is is this way.

SPEAKER_04 23:39

Well said, Anna. Just uh to underline that uh we have been uh building for six years. Uh we initially uh started as a B2C model, so the product market feedback allowed us to uh um basically uh say that the B2B model is the right way. Uh a key component uh perhaps to mention is the accelerator role in all of this, with uh, as Anna mentioned at the beginning, with Emurgo Labs, they have processes of how to collect uh uh product feedback uh from the different stakeholders involved in the in the uh uh what they call sprints, I guess, or cohorts actually is the word, cohorts. And and with uh cohort one of the Emorgo Labs Accelerator, we got to really learn uh from uh the Armenian government uh what was going on. And with cohort two, uh with we got to learn uh from this Salvadorian government and and Indian government. And uh so that that that's very important. Now uh in in gathering that feedback, it's it's very important uh to make sure that there is the uh uh possibility to create proof of concepts along the way so that uh when you collect the feedback, you're creating the proof of concept, uh, you get the feedback, uh i.e. uh functionality, and and then you get the sign-off on that. Taking into account, obviously, regulation, taking into account uh the different things. An example is certain data has to be kept in a certain country, it cannot be kept abroad. So that's a little check that has to be done. All these types of things uh are what has gone through the accelerator programs. Uh and and that's uh, from our point of view, a must. Uh an accelerator program is really a great opportunity for product market feedback, um, as an as an example.

SPEAKER_02 25:32

Obviously, the operative way is to work with uh an agile methodology that is quite useful in technology, then to make these kinds of sprints, and after that, obviously make our retros with the tech team to see how is the use and the feedback from the market and then the result of the UX and UI experience according to the daily basis.

SPEAKER_04 25:58

And let's not forget the big elephant in the room. Uh, under Delphi's leadership, we did get ISO certification. Uh ISO is an international standard, which uh uh uh expects you follow uh certain steps. Perhaps Delphi can give a little description of that.

SPEAKER_00 26:13

It's a very good point, Andre. Thank you. Because the scope for the ISO 9001 that we certified last year, it's not only our methodology. It's it begins with the communication, the proposals, how we build up, how we try to understand the needs from the market, and then of course the methodology until the verification of the digital recovery certificates issued in the blockchain. So it's for us, it was a really, really massive achievement. It took us many, many months to prepare, and also because we we all work remotely, and I was uh leading the process uh within Ana and Stefania and other colleagues, and it was very, very uh very, very inspiring to work like this remotely. And yes, I think that this provides us, this achievement also provides us with the strong commitment and the component that we need for the methodology that is to be trustful and to be a really good tool recognized by the international market.

SPEAKER_06 27:30

Congratulations. I'm sure that felt incredible to finally get that done.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 27:34

Thank you. Yeah, you're welcome. And I'm curious also about some of the challenges that you've run into over the years. So I'm I'm sure implementing MRV systems at a national scale is quite complex. Um so maybe Anna, you could detail some of the challenges you've run into and how you've dealt with them.

SPEAKER_02 27:53

Yes, yes, they as you say, is are complex, are the biggest challenges we have now. Uh first, to, as I was mentioned before, too many stakeholders. Uh this is uh roles that has to be clear, and our first thing is like understand the roles of every stakeholder. And if are not clear, was the projects going slower that we that we are planning. Uh second, the data quality, something that Delphi was mentioning. Uh, we need a strong proof from the field, so uh following the methodology, so uh when is the accreditation process and as well the verification process, so the um the locations, the data of the transportation, the data of the payments, the the data of the lending, proof of lending, all this kind of data is um if there is there is uh weak uh is quite difficult. So it's a challenge, it's another challenge. Um the third challenge is the the payment and compliance. So national programs, or if they need many payments, or if we are uh we have uh this uh budget for the um, I don't know, what the donor uh or different kind of donors, private, institutional or not, is another thing that uh that is a challenge. So as well, speak with this kind of public or to negotiate with them to understand that they are depending on the standardizing of the technology to implement in country. So it's very long life cycle uh that we are doing, but very tough and biggest challenge that we are doing to implementation. And uh then finally all these stakeholders with the technology, so with the with the language of people inside technology that we are adapting to automatize maximum our our our uh the process inside of the of the platform. I think in my point of view as as a COO, I see these these challenges.

SPEAKER_06 30:08

And I think that's one of the greater challenges just in the whole blockchain ecosystem, is just the the jargon and getting people to understand um how they can use it and how it benefits them on a regular basis. Completely. That's why I think it's fantastic that you have built the web 2 interface with the web 3 in the background, because I think that's really conducive to helping people um see the benefits and to facilitate the easy use of the platform.

SPEAKER_04 30:38

Yeah, absolutely agree. I mean, and also also the the the challenge from a uh go-to-market perspective is uh obviously why blockchain? Why do you need uh to have the data on chain? And and and the answer to that is is because the industry that we chose to work in is extremely fragmented. Um and uh EPR compliance is uh very difficult uh to enforce. And the only way uh that you can actually have uh transparency in such an industry is if all of the recovery and recycling data is on-chain. So so that that's essentially the argument. And then obviously the the risk of adopting blockchain is very important when uh assessing the possibility of working with blockchain, and that's where Cardano comes in, where all the boxes are checked out because it's low risk to use blockchain. It's really uh enterprise level type of uh of solution, and so there is no risk of uh uh to the infrastructure, the compliance infrastructure that the country uh is using, and and that's also very important. But ultimately the Web2 interface uh is the uh tip of the iceberg in terms of making it transparent, taking away blockchain as a discussion point, uh, other than okay, how does it work under the hood? Blockchain. And those are the reasons why we give, obviously, that it's important. But in the day-to-day, uh the interaction with the platform is uh very user-friendly um and it has to be web-to-focused so that uh there is no uh complexity in how to use it. Danon is a perfect case study. We're working with Danon for about a year and a half now in Spain, and um they they definitely uh not only saw the value of using uh uh verification on-chain, but also uh are very uh adept at using the platform because it's Web2 friendly. So definitely making it simple to use, transparent, um, and not overcomplexive overcomplicating things uh is the way to deploy.

SPEAKER_06 32:42

Absolutely. And you actually just answered or partially answered some of my next questions, which was how do you how do you convince these governments when you're in conversations with them and what makes Cardano and just public blockchain infrastructure compelling compared to normal databases?

SPEAKER_04 32:58

Ultimately, uh we have been in business for six years, but we are a startup. However, uh government does not uh plan on a three-year, two-year, five-year basis. They plan very long term. So when they're adopting new technology, they need to make sure that there's longevity in the technology. And the data uh being on-chain, uh being on Cardano blockchain, ensures that there is longevity in the recycling data. And should uh something happen to us uh for whatever reason, uh they know that that data is still there to be queried, is still there to be used. And ultimately, why do they want to use uh government's uh um uh blockchain and put it on their compliance infrastructure? Well, can you imagine uh a world where all the recycling and recovery data is not on-chain? I.e., can you can you how can you control, how can you levy taxes, how can you ensure compliance uh if the data is not uh on-chain? Now, obviously, the other piece is you can't just put any data on chain. That's where um uh what Anna and Delphi were mentioning, is you need to have a standardized approach towards verifying that data so that you're not putting garbage on chain. And uh the governments we're working with and the customers we are working with UNHCR, uh working with Barça, working with Bayer Leverkusen, uh, and more and more people, more and more institutions, is ultimately because they trust the methodology as uh how to verify the source data. And then, of course, the technology is where that source data goes and is no longer dependent on the startup, but it's on Cardano blockchain for future use. So these are what goes into the minds of uh the decision-making process.

SPEAKER_06 34:35

Absolutely. So even if something happens, that data is there forever, it cannot be changed and it can always be queried. Correct. Yeah, that's a huge strength. Correct.

SPEAKER_04 34:47

Correct.

SPEAKER_06 34:48

And so also from your perspective, what does plastics demonstrate about where Cardano fits into real world systems over the coming years?

SPEAKER_04 34:57

Well, uh uh let me just give a very clear-cut example of what we're doing so that it's it's it's it's understood what's what's at stake. Sorry for the uh play of words. Uh basically, uh extended producer responsibility legislation essentially states that uh any uh country uh has to create what we call a producer responsibility organization. And a producer responsibility organization called a pro is essentially uh an organization that is comprised of all companies that produce uh single-use packaging uh in a particular market in a country. And these companies uh uh have to pay into uh this pro certain fees so that they can finance essentially your uh recovery uh systems uh in the country, collecting the waste. Uh they can finance the logistics uh of these recovery systems. Uh so basically you may, if you're in Europe, you can know all the yellow bins. That's where you drop in your plastics. Well, uh those are financed by the pro, financed by the pro in Spain, the pro in France, the pro in Germany. And that financing, uh which is uh basically uh paid into by all the uh producers, is also used for the trucks that carry the waste from those bins up to recycling and a sorting station. And they're also used to finance the stations themselves that are separating sorting and uh basically sending it to the recycler. Uh so ultimately uh what's at stake here is from day one uh insert Cardano blockchain into this process so that all documentation, as uh Delphi mentioned, the three uh pillars uh of our methodology, are uploaded on-chain uh so that you are generating verified data for all this activity. And then you can actually enforce compliance uh with the pro. You can enforce compliance with EPR. That's what's at stake. So basically, what's at stake is being the blockchain infrastructure in all countries uh that do not have EPR and are deploying EPR. Now, we are detecting in countries where there is EPR, Spain is one of them, Danon is a perfect example, they already comply with their auditors with their once a year verification of what's going on. And they're demanding continuous ongoing verification. They want to have uh the ability to follow the data throughout the year, and that's why they're working with us. And more and more customers are saying we're gonna add this verification transparency layer, even in Europe. But ultimately, our goal-to-market strategy again, and what's at stake for Cardano, is being the public infrastructure for putting on-chain all of the recovery and recycling data by law.

SPEAKER_06 37:47

That's that's phenomenal to hear. I think here at Cardano Foundation we have a similar outlook for Cardano, which is that we want it to be the public digital infrastructure that people and organizations and governments around the world rely on. All right. I think we're almost out of time, but I have a few last questions. Um to close, I'd like to go back to the project catalyst proposal. So I guess this is a question for Anna. Um, so for voters there who are looking for measurable real-world impact, what would you want them to understand about your proposal?

SPEAKER_02 38:21

That we have proposal is uh the ambitions that the scalability country level only in two countries that we are mentioning the pilot can be multiplied by 63. So the opportunity we have onboarding and the adoption of in Cardano a volume, a quite ambitious volume of transactions. The second is the understandable of the lack of transparency in the waste management system and the laws that the EPR legislation are interest that the implementation in a lot of countries and the life of these kind of governmental or country-level clients are very long, is a utility and ambitions uh a utility and scalability project that can do a very good reputation. I mean, I'm very pragmatic, but I think plastics as well is is a pragmatic project with a clear statement, with a clear scope that was mentioned this word by Delphi, and with a clear summary of every step that the process we are doing and as well adapted to worldwide. So we adapted with different markets. For the voters, is that they want not only to do something good for the for the world, is to do something that we've proven for the world, that there are proofs around that we can track this recycle or this circular economy, not only because the words are beautiful to say, is because there are proof, and we are designed this proof to scale more and more, and obviously uh say everybody wants to pay the the the uh everybody wants to save the world, and we can do it. And it's not only a philosophy or a way to live, it's a proof to do it, and as well as a technology that can be a scale utility.

SPEAKER_00 40:38

I would like to add something. Um there are many, many projects out there doing amazing, amazing things for the planet, but if they don't communicate it or if if they don't show it with a transparent and verifiable uh tool, then it seems like it doesn't exist. So we are a very, very well good uh tool for anti-greenwashing.

SPEAKER_04 41:07

And that anti-greenwashing translates into transactions because all recovery and recycling data has to be on-chain. And we're looking at hundreds of thousands of transactions yearly uh per market.

SPEAKER_06 41:18

Best of luck with your proposal. Thank you. And a bit of an unrelated question that just came to mind, but I'm just curious, how does plastic recycling actually work?

SPEAKER_00 41:29

We accept different procedures. I mean, what we want is to uh the proof, the proof that the material was recovered, was transported to uh an a facility and then converted into something else, but not uh anything else. I mean something uh a process uh with controls. Uh we um we try always and we do it through our methodology, we uh we define if the processes are uh have the the very accurate controls to uh to avoid environmental pollution, to avoid uh air pollution or soil pollution. So we uh through the method, the accreditation process, we ask many questions related to this, and we also ask which is the recycling process. And it's very important for us to understand this at the beginning, because we have three different steps, one, two, and three. And the first one is about processes, about the origin of the material, the documentation that is available from the entity, and uh also if they will have or not roadmap. So we validate at the beginning, but we we do verifications uh uh all of the uh through the accreditation process.

SPEAKER_04 42:59

And and in terms of practicality of what are we verifying, so uh in simple terms, the actual collection process uh uh basically is done, and these uh wastes are sent to what we call material recovery facilities, uh MRFs, uh which is the standard uh language used in the industries across the world, where they have to do this sorting. So uh in in certain countries the sorting is done by hand. Uh in other countries, in Europe, it's done with uh optical uh sorting and mechanical separation. And then uh once the material is identified, uh it is sent towards uh what you call processing. Uh and that means a washing line. Uh it means basically then going into what Anna mentioned paralysis to convert it into uh some uh some uh petrol, uh, or it is sent to a recycling. Facility where it's processed into beads or yarn that is in of itself again washed and processed, and then that is sold to the manufacturer for it to be used in the new packaging, in the new product. All the hard to recycle materials and certain plastics have what you call recyclability. PET has a high degree of recyclability, which is why you heard the term RPET, recycled polyethylene. Other plastics have low recyclability and need to be either burned because they cannot be used or they need to be transformed into petrol. Or, yes, in many countries they're just thrown into the landfill, and that has to be caught, and that's what we do. So ultimately, the point is that the plastic itself is really going through the same process across all different countries in the world, different language, different uh cultures, but it's all more or less the same. Collection, sorting, uh, and sorting means identifying the type of plastic, etc. And of course, you have this circular economy uh initiatives that are meant to try to do something with the hard-to-recycle plastics. Plastics that is being collected from the sea. Fishnets, for example, don't qualify as a product that can be reused. You cannot use the plastic for a fishnet for a bottle. So what you do is you transform it. And then that's the other process that is used. It's called transformation. Uh, transformation into other products, into construction materials.

SPEAKER_02 45:56

See, a lot of industrial materials for construction for this kind of plastic.

SPEAKER_06 46:00

So that's how it works, uh Jacob, pretty much, from a very simple point of view. Okay, thank you so much. I was just personally curious about it. That was a great answer. Oh, thank you. And my last question is also for you, Andre, which is what does the world look like if plastic succeeds at a great scale?

SPEAKER_04 46:18

If plastic succeeds, uh basically in many of the countries that we have named, uh Cardano blockchain is uh constantly doing transactions with the recycling and recovery data. And uh governments uh and uh fast-moving consumer goods companies and all plastic producers in each of those countries are uh using on a day-to-day basis the blockchain to report, to do what Delphi said, communicate, uh, and to do what uh Anna said, basically uh scale their operations on the basis of verified data. So ultimately, uh uh if we succeed, uh we see in the countries that we're already uh working with and all the other ones that we wish to work with, uh, the use of blockchain as the uh uh form of uh traceability and transparency in the waste recovery industries. And it should be plastics.

SPEAKER_06 47:23

Yeah, that's a great vision. Um well, thank you so so much everyone for joining. I have one last little question that's on my mind. It's I'm just a bit curious about that jersey that's behind Anna. What is that?

SPEAKER_02 47:36

Well, this is uh because our first, very international and and reputational, and everybody everybody knows, I think, is Football Club Barcelona, as well as close because uh I'm living in Barcelona, Andre too. Delphi was living a long time in Barcelona, so for that reason I had the big pleasure to meet her in the past. And uh the first client was Football Club Barcelona, as well. They were sponsored with uh ACNUR, so UNACR, that is as well a client of us. And um they print this uh t-shirt for us in the first campaign we made with the NFTs that was these the digital certificates uh with rewards uh to recovery uh uh to recovery the data, to recovery plastic, and the other one that the fans or or the coulers we call, uh they they collect this plastic. So it was hard that the public understands this in their time because sometimes the consumers are, I'm not responsible of that. Why the brands are not responsible to clean or make something with the planet? But was proud because the relation we have with Football Club Barcelona and with Barcavision, that is the part of the Web3 ecosystem in Football Club Barcelona, is very good relation and is it's motivated because we know the people there, and and yes, it's we have this in our small office here in Barcelona, this this jersey.

SPEAKER_00 49:08

And I'm looking forward to having the t-shirt from Messi on here. I'm from Argentina, I actually live in Argentina, and my dream is to have the Messi t-shirt.

SPEAKER_01 49:20

The messy one that we would like we have a plastic t-shirt tailor made designed by Messi, of course. It's another goal that we have.

SPEAKER_06 49:32

All right, well, thank you everyone so much. It's been a real pleasure chatting with you. Um, so a huge thank you to the plastics team. If anyone out there is tuned in and listening, you can discover more about them at plastics.io. That is plastics with a K. Um, and then if you're interested in supporting their work, please review their Fund 15 proposal and participate in the Project Catalyst voting. Uh, this has been Let's Talk Cardano. We appreciate your time. Thanks so much. Thank you, Jacob.

SPEAKER_03 50:00

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for joining us on Let's Talk Cardano. For more insights and deep dives into the world of blockchain, don't forget to subscribe and reach us at CardanoFoundation.org, where you'll find extra resources and content on all things blockchain. Leave us a review wherever you enjoy podcasts, follow us on social media, and stay tuned for more coming soon.