Target's DEI rollbacks hit their bottom line, LGBTQ discrimination on the rise, and quiet cracking

This week, we dive into the real-world impacts of DEI rollbacks, workplace discrimination, and employee disengagement. We examine how Target faced boycotts and significant business impacts after eliminating DEI initiatives recently met with Rev. Al Sharpton to address the impacts of boycotts. We'll also explore troubling new research showing increased workplace discrimination against LGBTQ+ employees amid a record year of anti-LGBTQ+ legislation. Finally, we discuss the emerging concept of "quiet cracking" and what it reveals about the current state of workplace wellbeing and employee engagement.

Connect:

with Steven Huang on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thestevenhuang/

or sign up for his newsletter: https://setthesetting.substack.com/

with Stacey Nordwall on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/staceynordwall/

Articles:

• Rev Al Sharpton meets with Target CEO over halting of DEI initiative
• LGBTQ+ workers report more discrimination, less happiness at work
• What is ‘quiet cracking’? Worker disengagement has a new name

Transcript

Stacey (00:00):

Welcome to Toot or Boot, where each week we talk about news related to HR and the world of work. We toot the news we like and we boot the news we don't like. I'm your host, Stacey Nordwall, a serial joiner of early stage tech companies as their first in or only HR person. And joining us, rejoining us. Joining us again for Toot or Boot This week we have Steven. What's up?

Steven (00:23):

Hey Stacy. Hi everyone. Thanks for having me on Tudor boot again. Always happy to dish a hot take [00:00:30] on what's happening in the world.

Stacey (00:33):

I feel so weird calling you Steven because we've known each other for 10 years and it was in a different era when you weren't Steven. But what are you doing in your current era for those who are meeting you for the first time?

Steven (00:45):

My current era, well if you're seeing me on video, I am wearing a mushroom shirt. It's actually a crop top. I work in the psychedelic space. I work for one of the largest psychedelic organizations called maps, the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies. [00:01:00] So I'm the head of hr, finance and IT and community kind of a COO type role. We're a pretty big company as far as psychedelics go. We do a lot of drug policy work, advocacy and reform and clinical trials. Our subsidiary does clinical trials for MDMA, so it's a fantastic place to be an HR practitioner because everyone's high and willing to [00:01:30] challenge and push the envelope and reinvent things. So it's a really fun place to work. I'm very happy there.

Stacey (01:39):

Fabulous. All right, well we are going to dive right in today because we have a few articles I'm interested to get your take on. The first we're starting with is Rev Al Sharpton meets with Target CEO over halting of DEI initiative. This is from The Guardian. The recap of this article is that [00:02:00] activists in Minnesota called for a boycott of target after the company announced it would eliminate its DEI initiatives back in January. Additional boycotts have also been called for by different organizers since that time. Target's stock price hit its lowest point in five years during April, and at the end of March they reported in-store traffic was down by nearly 8% compared to the previous year. And Target has also acknowledged the reputational damage as part [00:02:30] of this boycott. On April 17th, Reverend Al Sharpton met with Target's CEO to discuss the fallout from their decision to roll back their DEI efforts. What'd you think?

Steven (02:42):

Do I go first?

Stacey (02:43):

Yeah, do it.

Steven (02:45):

Do you want to guess?

Stacey (02:46):

I mean, I feel like you're going to toot it.

Steven (02:52):

Toot toot! Well, I read the article and Reverend Sharpton did not directly call for a boycott of Target himself, but he [00:03:00] created support and space for other people to do that. And I'm not about manufactured outrage, but I am tooting people feeling empowered to make choices with their money in the system that we're in where money matters

Stacey (03:16):

Yeah

Steven (03:16):

And if that's what helps people feel empowered and boycotts do work at a system level. But even if this doesn't become a full on boycott of every company that has boycotted DEI, which would be hard, at least people feel [00:03:30] like a semblance of control in their life to say, Hey, I don't want to support this business right now.

Stacey (03:36):

Yeah,

Steven (03:37):

I toot that.

Stacey (03:38):

Yeah, I felt the same thing. It's kind of this thing that we talk about. You vote with your feet, you vote with your dollars. I like that people are saying, Hey, this DEI was an important value add to this organization and this organization no longer aligns with my values and so that means I don't have to shop there. And it is something that I think [00:04:00] it kind of goes beyond that DEI was this internal thing in terms of hiring or promotions or whatever for Target. It was really about what was in their stores as well. It was throughout their entire organization and people are reacting to that and saying, if you're not supporting the products that I want to buy, if you're not supporting all of these different aspects, then I don't have to be [00:04:30] there. And it really is this thing of, it goes beyond the workplace into the products that you produce and sell to the customers as well. And so yeah, a hundred percent toot.

Steven (04:42):

I did hear a boot perspective, it wasn't in the article, but Target, because they were earnest in their DEI initiatives for a long time, did source a lot of products by black and brown manufacturers and they're like, wait, target was like my avenue, so [00:05:00] don't boycott my target my product in Target. That's how they're getting revenue. But I mean if Target is essentially pulling back from DEI, they're pulling back from carrying your products down the road eventually. So maybe it encourages these black and brown founders and manufacturers to actually pick a distribution channel that does support them.

Stacey (05:25):

That was kind of my assumption as part of the boycott that it was also that folks [00:05:30] were saying, Hey, we come to Target to support those products and if you're not providing that support to those businesses anymore or really making that a conscious effort of part of what you're bringing into stores and how you're bringing things into stores, then we don't need to shop there because you're not supporting us anyway and supporting products we need. So

Steven (05:53):

The other thing that you can, if you're not willing to fully boycott something for me, it's really [00:06:00] hard to boycott Amazon because we're all so dependent on Amazon. It's just to reduce your dependence. I canceled my Amazon Prime, which is like $160 a year now. They keep raising the prices and I still order from Amazon from time to time. I still get free shipping. You still get free shipping, everyone. It just takes a little longer

Stacey (06:20):

Yeah

Steven (06:21):

And I just use it less and I'm like, I'm not boycotting anything right now. There's too many things I want to boycott. I just kind of am conscious of [00:06:30] where I spend my money now just a little more conscious. It's a middle path for me.

Stacey (06:36):

Yeah. I find myself doing a similar thing where I am shifting where I buy or how I buy or how often I buy and just being more mindful about it. And I think the larger part of what I like about this article and why I'm tooting it is that it is sending, I think Target did not anticipate that people were going to send this message to them. [00:07:00] And they have, and it sounds like because they're meeting with Rev Sharpton, they understand. They've heard the message.

Steven (07:09):

It's working.

Stacey (07:10):

I'll be really interested to see or hear what happens next if Target comes back and makes some changes based on this. But it really is this message to companies that people do have power, they have buying power, they have choice about where they [00:07:30] want to work and they're going to use that power. So I think that feels good in a world where things maybe haven't felt that good for a bit. And speaking of which, not feeling so great. We have an article from HR Dive that the title is that LGBTQ plus workers report more discrimination, [00:08:00] less happiness at work. The recap is that research from work L and the Center for American Progress found that nearly one in four LGBTQ plus people said they experienced discrimination at work. 40% said they made specific decisions about where to work in order to avoid discrimination. 29% said discriminatory treatment impacted their physical health, and 52% said it impacted their mental health. With all of those numbers increasing, particularly for intersex or trans [00:08:30] employees. And the research also found that feelings of empowerment, pride in their work and job satisfaction all dropped within the last year. I see the face that, yeah,

Steven (08:48):

It's just the biggest boot in the world.

(08:51):

At first when I read this, I was like, no way come. And then I'm like, wait, I'm in San Francisco and I've worked in San Francisco for many [00:09:00] years. I will pay whatever taxes I need to pay to live in a place where I don't experience this kind of discrimination in my day-to-day life. And I'm so privileged and blessed that I get to do that. And this article just breaks me to know that it hasn't been easy even in the good times necessarily for a lot of queer people in workplaces facing, if not discrimination, then bias or harassment, [00:09:30] but to know that it's increasing and I'm not shocked and I'm angry to hear that.

Stacey (09:39):

Yeah, yeah. It is obviously a big boot for me. I think one of the things that stood out as well as they said, I think because I hear I'm on LinkedIn a lot, and there is this always undertone on LinkedIn of don't make LinkedIn political and don't [00:10:00] bring politics into work. And this is really one of those very stark reminders that you cannot not bring politic to work because they're saying over in this article, they're noting over 500 bills were introduced by state legislatures targeting LGBTQ plus people. And so when you are very existence is politicized to say [00:10:30] that that doesn't, and then the discrimination is going up, the harassment is going up. It's not separable.

Steven (10:41):

What got me thinking about this and the target article, which is why we I guess want to tackle these two things at once is the people that don't support DEI or their queer workers, they're going to suffer. That's what we're seeing at the target level where it happens immediately. [00:11:00] But I am wondering if this continues, if those companies will eventually pay a price, and that's kind of why people are always trying to make the business case for DEI. And I wonder if we just let this play out, if the more queer and gender diverse Gen Z generation grows up where they want to work and where they want to shop once they get more purchasing power [00:11:30] as a cohort, is that just going to help take care of this issue where the people that aren't willing to support their queer workers just lose?

Stacey (11:43):

Yeah. Yeah. I mean it is an interesting, I say that's interesting. I also hesitate because I feel like is this something we want to have to watch, play out?

Steven (12:00):

[00:12:00] Do we have a choice?

Stacey (12:03):

I don't know that we have a choice. And it feels like that's something that's going to take 20 years time to see the result of which I don't know. I mean, in the meantime, how many people are just dealing with terrible working conditions and

Steven (12:20):

Yes, but one thing Cheryl Sandberg did tell me, the future always comes faster than you think it does. I used to work at Facebook [00:12:30] for people that are listening, and I know she's getting some flack now, but in my time that I spent with her limited time, she did have these little nuggets of wisdom and you think this issue is 10 years out, but in reality it's not. It's five. You mentioned do we need to wait 20 years. It's like, well, we'll likely be a majority minority country in about 15 years, and we're only going to get closer and closer to that as well. Where less than 50% of Americans will be white [00:13:00] already fewer than 50% of children born in America are white. So I know we were talking about LGBTQ plus, but just our demographics are shifting faster. Marjorie Taylor Greene was testifying. She's like, this next generation's going to be all non-binary and all queer and transgender. And I was like, let's go. But she was trying to scare [00:13:30] people. I was excited. She gets, it's happening.

Stacey (13:34):

Yeah.

Steven (13:35):

See where the dominoes fall, shall we?

Stacey (13:37):

Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean I think anything that leads us towards more inclusion, psychological safety, I'm there for that. I think it is rough for people right now. For sure. I see [00:14:00] so many folks on LinkedIn talking about how challenging it's been, and I was kind of thinking my psychology brain was going to Maslow's hierarchy of needs. And if you're at the point where you don't have that base of safety, you're not bringing your best work to the workplace. Right?

Steven (14:24):

Totally. It takes the cognitive load to have to deal with that at work. And I'm not trying to diminish people's experience at [00:14:30] work opposite. It's the opposite. I'm saying the companies that care need to really double down and demonstrate that you do care and support and hire and promote queer people, and this is your opportunity to shine be on the right side of history, first of all, and get all this great talent is otherwise not being supported by their workforce.

Stacey (14:54):

Yeah, absolutely.

Steven (14:55):

Their workplace.

Stacey (14:56):

Yeah, I mean, absolutely. I think that's one of the things too when we [00:15:00] as HR folks, we so often have to sell this business case and it's like the businesses that support people in doing their best work are going to be the most successful, and we say this over and over again.

Steven (15:12):

Don't say

Stacey (15:14):

I know. Shocking, right?

Steven (15:17):

Are you sure it's not the opposite? The company that abuse their workers do better?

Stacey (15:21):

I hear you right now. Common sense. And so exactly [00:15:30] to that point. And it's one of those things I think I saw as a side note like saw recently about the CEO of Costco talking about you can't say these are what you believe in and try to build a strong business and then treat your workers like shit. That just doesn't work. So the businesses that really are supporting, creating safe spaces for people, creating inclusive spaces for people are going to be the ones that are more successful. And yes,

Steven (15:59):

I would leave my job [00:16:00] to work at Costco. I love Costco. I grew up north of Seattle around Kirkland, so back in my day, they served the hot dogs out of a cart out front before they had the food court. I was at Costco last night. I am an anti-capitalist, but I am pro Costco.

Stacey (16:21):

I know. I said, I'm going to, okay, this is a little side diversion, but we'll share it. Anyway, I said something to a friend [00:16:30] about wanting to go to Costco, but that it was just too crowded because with all the tariffs, people were going descending onto Costco to bulk buy things. And she said, well, you know, could just get that stuff delivered or pick it up. And I was like, no, no, no. You don't understand. I need to walk up and down every single aisle. It is part of my process because I also love Costco. Proud Costco member and shareholder. Thank you so much. Costco

Steven (16:56):

Shareholder. Nice.

Stacey (16:59):

Okay. [00:17:00] This is not an advertisement for Costco, so we need to keep moving. That's sponsored by Toot or Boot, sponsored by Costco. Oh my God. Living the dream. Okay. Our last article comes from HR Dive. Its title is What Is Quiet Cracking Worker. Disengagement has a new name. The recap, I'll say, I had to look it up because even after reading this, I was not sure what they were saying quiet cracking was, so the definition [00:17:30] is persistent workplace worry and unhappiness that slowly leads to disengagement poor performance and a desire to quit from a talent LMS survey, they found that one in five survey takers said they experienced workplace unhappiness constantly or frequently. What did you think?

Steven (17:51):

I booted this. Just the whole thing. Obviously the results, what it was, the content, [00:18:00] but also just the term that we need a new term. I'm like, do we need a new term for something that has always existed? It's called disengagement, Job insecurity, disengagement. I don't think we need to create a new term for it, so that's why I said boot.

Stacey (18:13):

Yeah, it was a boot for me as well because I had to even look up what it was and it didn't seem like anything different. I thought, who isn't quietly cracking right now? Are we [00:18:30] all quietly cracking?

Steven (18:32):

Probably loudly cracking right now.

Stacey (18:36):

Yes. All of us are loudly cracking and it just feels like it is this weird thing where we take these trends and kind of put them outside of any kind of context. And when you think about everything going on in the world, and you mentioned this job insecurity, all of these different things, and then yeah, people are feeling [00:19:00] disengaged and they're bringing all of this stuff into work. That's not a different thing. It's not a new thing,

Steven (19:09):

A different thing. And the article talked about how you did the survey. It's like, oh, people's lack of training is leading to job insecurity. Like, oh, the lack of training questioned by the LMS company. I see what you're doing here. I can see right through this clever marketing spiel. You came up with a new term, [00:19:30] you got on Toot or boot, congratulations. But Stacey, I see right through this we are loudly cracking.

Stacey (19:42):

I would love if these companies just start coming up with trends just in hopes of getting On toot or boot, knowing that we probably boot them

Steven (19:55):

Like, Hey, any news is the good news. Even if we get booted, even if Stacy booted us [00:20:00] for the episode with someone nice they'll boot us too.

Stacey (20:07):

Oh my gosh. All right. Well, since we obviously have loudly cracked on this episode, we can tell we have reached a moment of just we're cracking.

Steven (20:22):

Keep cracking everyone.

Stacey (20:24):

Keep cracking. Steven. Tell people how they can connect with you or learn more about the [00:20:30] things that you're doing.

Steven (20:32):

Yeah, you can find me on LinkedIn. That's probably the easiest way to do it. That's the only social media I try to be on right now. But I also write a once a month email through my Substack, which is linked on my LinkedIn, so you can find me on Steven with a v, Huang, H-U-A-N-G, the psychedelic guy. That's the other way to find me. My Substack is also my website, which is set the setting. Set the setting.com, [00:21:00] substack.com/set the setting. Thanks for having me, Stacey.

Stacey (21:05):

Yes, thanks for joining and everyone, I'll put those links in the show notes because this is the newsletter that I anxiously look forward to. It's always good, always insightful, and thank you again so much for joining.

Steven (21:21):

Thanks.