26 - In Flow: Reclaiming Your Rhythm, Redefining Productivity (Guest: Kasia Stiggelbout from In Flow Planner)

In this powerful and affirming episode, Deb chats with Kasia Stiggelbout, founder of In Flow, about what it really means to live and work in sync with your cycle. Kasia shares her own journey from corporate burnout to building a wellness brand that centers cyclical living — and why women deserve more than a “just push through it” culture.

They talk hormones, healing, productivity myths, and how to start honoring your body’s natural energy shifts — even in the postpartum haze.

This is the episode you didn’t know you needed — especially if you’ve been feeling drained, disconnected, or just flat-out done with hustle culture. A must-listen for new parents, menstruators, and anyone craving a softer, smarter approach to productivity and well-being.

💌 Want to start syncing with your own rhythm? Kasia’s In Flow Planner at In Flow Planner. Use discount code: DOULADEB15 at check out for a 15% discount! It’s a beautiful place to start.

 🌿 Looking for gentle, personalized postpartum support? Learn more about Deb’s First Year Support Program and Sleep Consulting Packages at DoulaDeb.com.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Inflow and Personal Journey
• 4:44 Understanding Women's Cycles and Productivity
• 7:51 Cyclical Nature of Productivity
• 10:41 The Four Phases of the Menstrual Cycle
• 13:46 Inner Winter: Menstruation Phase
• 16:34 Inner Spring: Follicular Phase
• 19:39 Inner Summer: Ovulation Phase
• 21:20 Embracing the Inner Voice
• 22:15 The Power of the Ovulatory Phase
• 23:21 Navigating the Luteal Phase
• 25:13 Understanding Inner Narratives
• 27:07 The Importance of Rest and Self-Care
• 28:57 The Impact of Stress on Hormones
• 30:42 Food, Movement, and Hormonal Balance
• 32:10 The Journey from Maiden to Motherhood
• 35:16 Honoring the Dark Phases of Womanhood
• 37:16 Reclaiming the Feminine Essence
• 40:04 Challenging Societal Norms for Women
• 41:03 The Reality of Women's Health and Fertility
• 43:35 Understanding the Trade-Offs of Modern Life
• 45:00 Nourishing the Body: Postpartum and Beyond
• 46:10 Cultural Challenges in Honoring the Feminine
• 49:29 Embodiment and Mindfulness Practices
• 55:43 Reconnecting with the Body
• 58:53 Empowering the Next Generation
• 1:01:24 Final Wrap-up & How to Connect

Transcript

Deb (00:40)
Hey, welcome back to Doula Talk. This is where we keep it real about messy, beautiful journey of parenthood and today the rhythms of womanhood too. So here's a content note. in this episode, we used gendered language like women and mothers when discussing cycles, fertility and postpartum experiences.

We acknowledge that not everyone who experiences menstruation, pregnancy, or postpartum identifies as a woman. Our intention is always to honor and support all birthing people and these transitions regardless of their gender identity. continuously learning and striving to create more inclusive conversations, and I really want to thank you for being here.

In this episode, I am joined by the brilliant Kasha, founder of Inflow, a wellness brand that is helping women ditch burnout and reclaim their natural rhythm. If you've ever felt like you're fighting your own body to keep up, this conversation is your permission slip to stop the hustle and start honoring the way you're actually built. We're diving into why productivity

should be cyclical, not linear, the truth about syncing your cycle, even if you're postpartum or irregular, and how we can stop lying to women about what their bodies should be doing. So grab your tea, your planner, or the one you wish you had, and let's talk about how to come back into rhythm with your body, your energy, and your life.

Deb (02:17)
thank you for coming. This is Kasha from Inflow. And I would love to just hear...

to start off sharing a little bit of your personal story and how you came to this work and what sparked your creation of Inflow the Planner.

Kasia Stiggelbout (02:33)
you

Well, Deb, I'm so excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me. And Inflow is really a product that I wish had existed during some of the darker periods in my life as a woman, as a professional. A little bit of backstory, Inflow is both a planner and a journal all in one that enables women to connect and align with their cycle and use

Deb (02:44)
existed.

a little bit of backstory. Inflow is both a planner and a journal all in one that enables women to connect and align with their cycle and use that

Kasia Stiggelbout (03:04)
that rhythm to optimize and work with their bodies, with their energy, with their hormones, instead of working against it.

Deb (03:04)
rhythm to optimize and work with their bodies, with their energy, with their hormones instead of working against it.

Kasia Stiggelbout (03:14)
And as somebody who spent

Deb (03:14)
somebody who spent

many many years working in the corporate world and places from like Microsoft based up in Redmond near you through to TEDx San Francisco and several startups in between I experienced so much burnout at the height of my career and it wasn't until I really became attuned to how my

Kasia Stiggelbout (03:17)
many, many years working in the corporate world at places from like Microsoft based up in Redmond near you through to TEDx San Francisco and several startups in between. I experienced so much burnout at the height of my career and it wasn't until I really became attuned to how

my body works, how my creativity works, how my energy works and the unique ways that we as women

Deb (03:41)
how my creativity works, my energy works, and the unique ways that we as women

Kasia Stiggelbout (03:47)
women

Deb (03:47)
are different until I really came to understand that and make changes to how I was operating. just continued to have those same rock bottom.

Kasia Stiggelbout (03:47)
are different until I really came to understand that and make changes to how I was operating. I just continued to have those same rock bottom moments in my life and in my body. So it's really a tool that I wish had existed for me. And that's really the inspiration behind it just to offer women an alternative to the expectation that every day is the same, that we operate the same every single day, because that's just not true.

Deb (03:58)
in my life and in my body. it's really a tool that I wish had existed for me. And that's really the inspiration behind it, just to offer women an alternative to the expectation that every day is the same, that we operate the same every single day. Because that's just not true. No.

No. And we have a flow of hormones. And I think that is something that I've more recently been tapping into, just honoring.

Kasia Stiggelbout (04:17)
Yeah.

Deb (04:24)
my energy levels of this is normal and natural to have those days where you're just like, yep, I need to take care of myself. And then you avoid the burnout, right?

Kasia Stiggelbout (04:25)
Hmm.

100%. And I also like to think about it as not just, know, as...

our culture really fixates on those negative days, those days where our energy is low or the PMS symptoms or she's hormonal. But I would encourage women to also think about the flip side, that if we don't understand how our body works and if we're not attuning to that and really aligning to move with that, then we are leaving untapped potential on the table. Yeah.

Deb (04:44)
or energy's low or PMS symptoms or she's hormonal, but I would encourage women to also think about the flip side. if we don't understand how our body works and if we're not attuning to that and really align...

100 % yes

Yeah, cuz if you really think about those days when you're you're ovulating right where you're just like I have so much energy and you use those days to your advantage I mean, that's awesome. Well, great Was there a moment where you realized that the way that we're to like push through and just go through it wasn't working for your body anymore And when did that happen?

Kasia Stiggelbout (05:10)
Yes.

Yeah.

Hmm...

Yeah...

I wish I could say that it was just one moment, but it was a series of moments really. Yeah, I mean, I definitely, there were several rock bottom moments where my body was just like, no, and really dug in its heels. I can recall before I left Microsoft in 2021, I was at the height of my career and in the depth of my health issues, like full body eczema.

Deb (05:32)
It was a series of moments, really. Yeah. I definitely, there were so

late.

Mm-hmm.

Kasia Stiggelbout (05:57)
irregular cycles, really painful endometriosis symptoms. And it felt so difficult because society would say, you're killing it. I was doing so well in the corporate world, just doing the things that I always thought mattered. And yet I had to trade off on the health of my body. And so I wish I could say that it was just one moment, I think, leaving Microsoft to

Deb (05:58)
really painful endometriosis symptoms and it felt so difficult because society would say, oh, you're killing it. You know? yeah. Doing so well in Look at you. Yeah.

So I wish I could say that it was just one moment. think leaving Microsoft to

study Chinese medicine, which was kind of my next step, that was a pivotal moment because it was taking a step away, choosing my health and my well-being first. But unfortunately, it took a little bit longer to really turn off some of those narratives because they're so embedded in our culture. You know what I mean? even I assume.

Kasia Stiggelbout (06:26)
study Chinese medicine, which was kind of my next step. That was a pivotal moment because it was taking a step away, choosing my health and my wellbeing first. But unfortunately, it took a little bit longer to really turn off some of those narratives because they're so embedded in our culture. You know what I mean? Like even even I assume

when you work with women across the different phases of birthing and postpartum, I mean, the narrative around it should go this fast or it should look like this or

bounce back like this. Yes.

Deb (06:57)
Or bounce back, bounce back culture, right? Of like, well, and just normalizing that when you have a baby, should just, everything should be normal after, you know, get right back to what your life was prior to having a baby. You just happen to have this baby with you too. Which is like insanity. It's like, what?

Kasia Stiggelbout (07:14)
Yeah.

insane.

Deb (07:20)
That is not okay. Yeah. And then also setting up the expectation of like establish your career first, get that high power job and then have a family. Well, you're killing yourself getting to that point. And then it's such a huge shift becoming a mother.

Kasia Stiggelbout (07:23)
It's insane.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah, and you know, there's so much incredible research also coming out about how stress and the way that we live our lives up until that point of conception really does take a toll on our ability to conceive, right? And this is both men and women, but if we're talking about women specifically, it is such an insane shift when we are kind of powering through the world, putting our body on the back burner,

Deb (07:41)
There's so much incredible research also coming out about...

really does take a toll.

Yep. Yep.

specifically is such an insane shift when we

Kasia Stiggelbout (08:09)
reaching peaks in our career, but trading off.

Deb (08:09)
Yeah, yes.

Kasia Stiggelbout (08:13)
any kind of cyclical rhythm at all in terms of cycles of doing and rest and sprinting and then retreating. All of that doesn't exist in our culture. There's no seasonality to success and progress and all of that. And then we just are supposed to bounce from that into having a baby. And then three months later, if you get maternity leave, you just bounce right back into

being the same person you were before. I mean, it's...

Deb (08:39)
the same person you were before. I it's...

Yeah, yeah. It doesn't make any sense. And I think that, you know, looking at, and we'll probably get into this a little later, but looking at our lives and our cycles and everything in that cyclical way and that balance, it really just nourishes us so much more. And if you look at like the year, there's a time of rest in winter, right? And then there's that...

Kasia Stiggelbout (08:43)
insane.

Deb (09:05)
reawakening in spring and then there's that push in summer and you're just like, I'm getting all the things done. And then there's that, you know, fall time of like, okay, I did such good work and you can just rest. But then you look at the cycle of, you know, hormones with women and when we're not honoring that, that's when, I mean, I think that's where this all came from. It's just so important that we honor that and recognize those cycles in ourselves. So,

That actually just leads into my next question. You said that productivity is cyclical, not linear, which means it feels really freeing, especially for parents. What does that actually look like in real life?

Kasia Stiggelbout (09:49)
Yeah, yeah. So I want to say that productivity is cyclical for women, right? Because men actually, when you look at a standard male testosterone cycle, it fully refreshes every 24 hours. And it has micro loops within that, of peaking in the morning and fully going down by the evening. But women, their cyclical rhythm is really over 28 days. So.

Deb (09:52)
Yeah,

that kind of peaking in the morning.

So we'll

Kasia Stiggelbout (10:16)
well, give or take, right? Some

Deb (10:16)
give or take, right? Right, sure.

Kasia Stiggelbout (10:17)
women's are shorter, some are longer. Also, this depends on what phase of life you're in and life has major cycles, like the meta cycles, we'll get into that. So for women, that kind of 28 to 35 day period, maybe shorter for some women, really does have ebbs and flows within that. And I think that...

Deb (10:36)
really does have ebbs and flows within that. And I think that

everything that we talk about here, before we even dive into the internal seasons that we as women witness, think it's very important to name that this will be really individual. So a lot of content around the female hormonal cycle is very prescriptive. it's like, there are four distinct phases, like are four seasons.

Kasia Stiggelbout (10:41)
everything that we talk about here before we even dive into the internal seasons that we as women witness, I think it's very important to name that this will be really individual. So a lot of content around the female hormonal cycle is very prescriptive and it's like, there are four distinct phases, like there are four seasons and

you go from one season to the next and exactly.

Deb (11:04)
And it's it's built in like these days right and you're like well that doesn't fit

me so then you throw it all out, right? Yeah

Kasia Stiggelbout (11:13)
Yes, yes. Or the notion

that, you know, one day you're in your ovulatory phase and then suddenly you're in your luteal phase. It doesn't work like that. Like, it's not like Monday to Tuesday. It's Yes. There's like a slight fluctuation between the two. And we can see that even as we're, you know, we're recording this in spring and there's a transition from winter into spring. And there are days where it feels more spring like, and then at days where it gets colder again. And over time it builds into spring.

Deb (11:21)
Right, right, doesn't switch on and off that way.

Sure.

to spring and there are days where it feels

time in no

Kasia Stiggelbout (11:42)
And so I think it's really important that we as women take this information and apply it to our own bodies because it will look different for us and it'll look different over our lives. Meaning...

Deb (11:43)
think it's really...

and apply it to our own bodies because it will look different for us and it'll look different over our lives.

after we have a baby, our cycles might look so different. As we become perimenopausal, move closer to menopause, our cycles will look so different. And I think that all of that needs to be named.

Kasia Stiggelbout (11:54)
After we have a baby, our cycles might look so different. As we become perimenopausal, move closer to menopause, our cycles will look so different. And I think that all of that needs to be named.

Deb (12:05)
I guess to go back to your question, which is what does that look like? think starting to acknowledge and I'll use seasons kind of as the terminology Starting to acknowledge that we as women have four seasons within our body Kind of starting

Kasia Stiggelbout (12:06)
I guess to go back to your question, which is, what does that look like? I think starting to acknowledge, and I'll use seasons kind of as the terminology, starting to acknowledge that we as women have four seasons within our body, kind of start

Deb (12:23)
with our inner winter, which is our menstruation phase That is when we start bleeding it is actually the day that we need to take action

Kasia Stiggelbout (12:23)
with our inner winter, which is our menstruation phase. That is when we start bleeding. It is actually the day that we need to take action, right? From

a kind of a tampon pad cup point of view. It's not the spotting that leads up to it, but the day we need to take action through to the next time our cycle starts. There are four phases within that that...

Deb (12:39)
It's not the spotting that leads up to it, but the day we need to take action through to the next time our cycle starts. There are four phases within that that

correlate with hormones.

Kasia Stiggelbout (12:51)
correlate with hormonal

Deb (12:52)
changes in our bodies that influence our creativity, our energy, our productivity, also intuition. Intuition and energy are inversely related, which we can get into that. It's a powerful reframe for PMS, but I think that is the major thing that I just want to start with, that there are, we experience the seasons so beautifully within our bodies internally.

Kasia Stiggelbout (12:52)
changes in our bodies that influence our creativity, our energy, our productivity, also intuition. Intuition and energy are inversely related, which we can get into that. It might be a powerful reframe for PMS, but I think that is the major thing that I just wanna start with, that there are, we experience the seasons so beautifully within our bodies internally.

Deb (13:22)
The first step

is like understanding that that's there, right? And recognizing the signs as you're transitioning through these things. Because just in my own experience, there's no education, you're kind of like, here's your period. And you bleed sometimes and you're probably going to be, you know, very hormonal or like very upsetting to other people before your period. But that's it.

Kasia Stiggelbout (13:26)
Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Deb (13:46)
There's no understanding of the other types of their cycles yeah. Do you want to get into the four phases? Yeah, let's just do that.

Kasia Stiggelbout (13:47)
Yeah.

100%. Do you want to get into the four phases? You want to talk about them?

Okay, cool. And I'm also so, well, I'm gonna ask you some questions too about how you can relate to them, yes or no, kind of in your experience. But we'll start with the inner winter, which is that phase of menstruation. So again, the days that we start bleeding, that is our inner winter as women. And you can kind of think about it as the time of retreat, inner retreat. Our hormones are at their lowest point, our

Deb (14:01)
you can relate to them, yes or no, kind of experience. But we'll start with the inner winter, is that phase of menstruation. So again, the days that we start bleeding, that is our inner winter as women.

The time of retreat in a retreat our hormones are at their lowest point our energy

Kasia Stiggelbout (14:25)
Energy is at its lowest point, but our intuition is actually quite heightened a lot of women will report that

Deb (14:25)
is at its lowest point But our intuition is actually quite heightened a lot of women will report that They experience a lot of clarity during this time especially since when we start our bleed we are tailing off of what we call that

Kasia Stiggelbout (14:34)
They experience a lot of clarity during this time, especially since when we start our bleed, we are tailing off of what we call that late

Deb (14:42)
Yeah.

Kasia Stiggelbout (14:42)
luteal phase or the PMS phase right before it, which we will get to since it's a cycle. But a lot of clarity can come through during this time, which is really powerful. And from a product productivity standpoint, that can offer us a lot of insights. We might have insights about things that we felt stuck on in the prior.

phase of the month that might come through during this time. So practically speaking, if you live in a corporate environment or work, sorry, work in a corporate

Deb (15:12)
environment like I used to leading engineers during this time of month this would be a powerful time to reflect on our roadmap for the next couple of weeks and what we were doing and what was working what isn't working this is an optimal time for that right like now I can start to see the bigger picture and really plan for what's

Kasia Stiggelbout (15:12)
environment like I used to leading engineers during this time of month, this would be a powerful time to reflect on our roadmap for the next kind of couple of weeks and what we were doing and what was working, what isn't working. This is an optimal time for that, right? Like now I can start to see the bigger picture and really plan for

what's coming next,

Deb (15:32)
coming next

Yet physically and mentally this is a time of rest so really good time to perhaps if possible I try to do this with my own podcast not schedule all of your major meetings and presentations during this time because you will feel lower energy and you will feel called to retreat so when

Kasia Stiggelbout (15:35)
yet physically and mentally, this is a time of rest. So really good time to perhaps, if possible, I try to do this with my own podcast, not schedule all of your major meetings and presentations during this time, because you will feel lower energy and you will feel called to retreat.

Deb (15:55)
it comes to productivity that would be like one major insight for that first phase and

Kasia Stiggelbout (15:55)
when it comes to productivity, that would be like one major insight for that first phase. And

Deb (16:01)
That also translates to how we move, how we eat, all those things we can get into. But just really thinking about it as the inner winter and what are the choices that we make during that And that

Kasia Stiggelbout (16:01)
that also translates to how we move, how we eat, all those things we can get into, but just really thinking about it as the inner winter and what are the choices that we make during that time.

Deb (16:12)
can be so powerful for productivity. Like you said, if you never have that introspection okay, what is working, what isn't working, and how do we move forward? And have things changed, have our goals changed in that time. And that can actually focus you so much more. Yeah.

Kasia Stiggelbout (16:24)
Yes, yes.

Yeah,

100 % and a lot of the time, a lot of friction will come up before we start our bleed, right? Which I'm kind of jumping to the last phase of the cycle, the luteal phase, the PMS phase, but a lot of friction comes up for women during this time. And I think when we zoom out and realize it is a cycle and there will be a breakthrough point that will come, that just allows us to give some space for that. So a really powerful thing where you may not be feeling clarity a couple of days before,

Deb (16:34)
start our bleed right which I'm kind of jumping to the last phase of the cycle the luteal phase the pms phase but a lot of friction comes up for women during this time and I think when we zoom out and realize it is a cycle and there will be a

Totally. Yeah!

Kasia Stiggelbout (16:58)
Just give yourself some space and time and reflect on where you are in your cycle because it might actually come through like if you're right before your period starts just you know breathe into it and be with it and see what happens in the next few days because our minds are actually changing and I'll send you an article to link

Deb (17:17)
about several researchers that

Kasia Stiggelbout (17:17)
about several researchers that

Deb (17:19)
have actually been able to talk about and show through MRI scans the way our brains change over the course of That is so really powerful. Wow. that's awesome. So the next

Kasia Stiggelbout (17:19)
have actually been able to talk about and show through MRI scans the way our brains change over the course of the month. So it's really powerful. It's really cool. It's really cool. Yeah. Yeah. So the next

phase after that inner winter is again, that shift to summer. And as we talked about a lot of language around cycle syncing is very prescriptive day seven. Boom. You transit transitioned out of your inner winter, but

Deb (17:36)
shift to summer and as we talked about a lot of language around cycle syncing is very prescriptive day seven boom you transit transitioned out of your inner winter but

that can happen sooner for women really what's happening during this inner spring which is the follicular phase and cycle syncing is there is a rise in

Kasia Stiggelbout (17:47)
That can happen sooner for women. Really what's happening during this inner spring, which is the follicular phase and cycle syncing, is there is a rise in

hormones. Your estrogen levels are starting to rise to prepare for ovulation. This comes with, just as we witnessed in spring, that blossoming of flowers.

Deb (17:57)
Mm.

Kasia Stiggelbout (18:07)
a slight burst in creativity that clarity that came at the beginning of our cycle shifts into new possibilities. This is an excellent time for prototyping for

thinking

of new ways of solving problems for exploring new ideas. It is when I started to tap into this on a personal level, this was a time for, my gosh, if I want to think about how to promote my podcast differently or the partnerships that I want to establish, ideas flow like crazy. And during other times of month, it's like, my God, I can't do this. Nothing's ever going to happen, right? Just totally different vibes, totally different vibes. And with this,

Deb (18:20)
thinking of new ways of solving problems for exploring new ideas. It is when I started to tap into this on a personal level, this was a time for, my gosh, if I want to think about how to promote my podcast differently or the partnerships that I want to establish, ideas flow like crazy. And during other times of month, it's like, oh my God, I can't do this. Nothing's ever going to happen. Totally different vibes. Totally different vibes.

laughing because I can,

I just like identify with that so much where you have those couple days you're just like nothing's working I'm quitting everything this is terrible. What have I done?

Kasia Stiggelbout (18:50)
Yes, right.

What have I done?

I'm a failure. Blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, all those narratives. And then sometimes a month we're like, oh my God, there's so many possibilities in the world. The world, yeah, I know. I know.

Deb (19:02)
Yes. then sometimes a month we're like, my God, there's so many possibilities So many opportunities. world is open

to me. 100%. 100%. So from a productivity standpoint, again, give yourself grace. Like if we're to track our cycles and know where we're at, you might start to notice patterns of certain voices in our voices. Helpful or not helpful, right? Helpful or not

Kasia Stiggelbout (19:11)
100 % 100 % so from a from a productivity standpoint again give yourself grace like if we're able to track our cycles and know where we're at you might start to notice patterns of certain voices inner voices coming up

helpful or not

helpful. And we'll talk about how maybe the not helpful ones can actually be helpful in a second. That was like a mind-blowing experience for me because we'll reframe that for you. But yeah, so inner spring again from a movement perspective as well, this is a time to start to move some of that energy. You've kind of cleared things out physically, your estrogen is rising. During this time actually, the rise in estrogen is very protective. So,

Deb (19:31)
Ooh, awesome. Okay.

spraying again from a movement perspective as well this is a time to start to move.

Yep.

Kasia Stiggelbout (19:55)
I don't know you've ever, have you ever seen languaging online talking about, you know, don't do HIIT workouts before your period. You've seen that, right? They don't always talk about why that is, but there is research to show that estrogen is extremely protective.

Deb (20:04)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Interesting.

Kasia Stiggelbout (20:13)
to our muscles. And so when we talk about preventing injury and starting to move into high intensity movements, they're just a lot better during certain times of month, during the spring and summer seasons within our bodies. And also,

Strength gains are higher during this time. So with all that strength gain,

languaging, right? Having the same workout all the way through is not necessarily supportive. You can still do the same movements, but maybe just change the intensity over the course of the month. Yeah. Yeah.

Deb (20:42)
Oh great, okay.

So would that mean like yoga, stretching, focusing on that during your, luteal phase? Okay.

Kasia Stiggelbout (20:53)
phase, which comes, yeah, yeah. So we'll get to that. We'll get to the autumn phase. But

yes, that is extremely beneficial during that time. Again, listening to your body. But a lot of women that I work with since right now, my colleague and I were bringing workshops.

Deb (21:00)
during that time again listening to your

I work with.

That's okay.

Kasia Stiggelbout (21:11)
to some corporations, which I'm going on a tangent. I'll go back, don't worry. But we're bringing

it Fortune 500 400 companies, this concept of reframing productivity. And a lot of women feel relief when they hear, know, my work, I don't have to be doing the spin class, like right before my period. It might actually be harmful to my body. That was just a lot of relief. So yes, this is your hall pass.

Deb (21:20)
and lot of women feel relief when they hear

Well, and that's that inner voice right

of like listening to your body of like if you're if you're like thinking about like I'm dreading this It's okay to take a little break when your body is telling you that

Kasia Stiggelbout (21:42)
Yes. Yes.

100 %

100 % so we went through spring started to go into summer, which is the next season. This is the ovulatory phase and Deb you were mentioning this is when you feel super confident, right? The inner goddess Beyonce, whoever you love, like plug her in here and there's a reason for that. mean our estrogen is at its peak. We feel super comfortable in our skin most of the time during this time of month. This is a great time when it comes to productivity to schedule those

Deb (21:56)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Sure.

Kasia Stiggelbout (22:15)
high-profile meetings if you're pitching ideas if you're meeting with executives of course sometimes you can't pick exactly the days to do it but just

Looking at your calendar and doing your best to Tuesdays when you're not about to get to your cycle and ideally

around your ovulatory phase will just make things easier for you. You're going to feel that magnetic energy because all the energy is bustling out of you. It's a very, very kind of outward energy time. And that's really the energy of summer.

Deb (22:34)
your ovulatory phase will just make things easier for you. You're going to feel that magnetic energy because all the energy is bustling out of you. It's a very, very kind of outward energy time. And that's really the energy of summer.

Kasia Stiggelbout (22:52)
And

Deb (22:52)
As we start to move towards the latter kind of last phase of your inner seasons or your cycle, you started to talk about it already. We move into the luteal phase, is that autumn or fall phase. This is the time where things are starting to wind down. We might notice our energy start to dip. Our intuition starts to come alive as it prepares for the bleeding phase. This is the time where...

Kasia Stiggelbout (22:52)
as we start to move towards the latter kind of last phase of your inner seasons or your cycle, you started to talk about it already. We move into the luteal phase, which is that autumn or fall phase. This is a time where things are starting to wind down. We might notice our energy start to dip. Our intuition starts to come alive as it prepares for the bleeding phase. This is a time where those inner narratives run rampant. I call her Jezebel for me.

Deb (23:17)
those inner narratives run rampant. I call her Jezebel for me.

Kasia Stiggelbout (23:21)
I don't know if you have a name. Do you have a name? Sorry, Danny Jezebel. It's a lovely name. I had to name her.

Deb (23:22)
Do you have a name for I don't. I don't, but I think I need to name it. I feel like it should be

mean girl from high school or something, you know? I actually, I was just talking to myself in the mirror. was like, be nice to my friend. Cause I heard that one time of like, I would never say that to a friend of mine. Like be like, God, my hair looks a mess today. And I was like, be nice to my friend. And that was that little voice. I was like, that is not nice.

Kasia Stiggelbout (23:32)
Yes, yes, Mean Girl. Mean Girls come out. They do.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Well, there's also that wise voice within if you're communicating. I mean, that's really powerful to even notice that. that, see, that is actually key for this phase. This is where the shadowy parts of ourselves, the parts that we stuff down and don't process will start to come out. And the way that I like to think about it is these parts are always present within our.

Deb (23:58)
Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kasia Stiggelbout (24:17)
lives and throughout our cycle, but they're working subconsciously. And during this time of month, the veil is the thinnest and we can really hear these voices. So what a beautiful gift to start to change our relationship because if we can become first, mindfully aware of the different narratives within us and to start to show up with compassion instead of anger and hatred that

Deb (24:21)
Yeah.

beautiful gift to start to change our relationship because if we can become first mindfully aware of the different narratives within us and to start to show up with compassion instead of anger and hatred, helps

Kasia Stiggelbout (24:46)
helps strengthen the wise

Deb (24:46)
strengthen the why.

Kasia Stiggelbout (24:48)
part of us, the wise woman inside that is able to care for those parts. And so I actually view any sort of negative narratives or PMS-like symptoms as just signals from my body, from my heart, showing me what needs some care. And I think that that is such a powerful reframe because society has created this kind of languaging around

Deb (25:10)
of languaging around,

Kasia Stiggelbout (25:13)
she's hormonal. she's just PMSing, right? we're not giving ourselves grace. Yes. Yes.

Deb (25:13)
she's hormonal, she's just PMSing. Yes. she doesn't even, she's not in control, right? She's not in control of her emotions and everything. It's like, and I can actually relate to being younger. It's like, you feel that, like you feel really out of control. And you're like, I can't control my actions. I can't control my feelings of how I'm feeling so negative and mean to people. And

Kasia Stiggelbout (25:28)
Hmm... Yeah.

Deb (25:37)
I think the more that you try to control it, like the harder it is. And it's it's so unnatural to do that. So I love the idea of like flipping it, that reframe of like understanding that that is just a way of your body telling you like, you need to care for yourself and slow down and it's okay.

Kasia Stiggelbout (25:43)
Yes.

Yeah.

Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Deb (25:58)
And it's a phase, right? And I love that idea

of just embracing that this is normal, that this is like a normal thing that our bodies are going through and there's a reason for it and that the spring will come again. I love that.

Kasia Stiggelbout (26:12)
100 %

my gosh. Well you got you're totally preaching it. I mean, that's amazing Yeah, and I think that that gives us grace and allows us to give ourselves grace Which is so huge and so important because a lot is happening within our bodies, right? And I'll just talk hormonally for a minute when we push up against this inner narrative and we start to

Deb (26:33)
up against this inner narrative and we start to

whether it be

Kasia Stiggelbout (26:37)
whether it

be through our environment or through our internal dialogue, start to experience stress and we actually cultivate more stress, more tension. We are contributing to, in a lot of cases, rising cortisol, which is directly at odds with the progesterone, which is the hormone that is really the star of the show during this time. Progesterone is a relaxing hormone. It is the hormone that kind of spikes a bit as our body prepares

Deb (26:39)
environment or through our internal dialogue start to experience stress and we actually cultivate more stress, more tension. We are contributing to, in a lot of cases, rise in cortisol, which is directly at odds with progesterone, which is the hormone that is really the star of the show during this time. Progesterone is relaxing hormone. It is the hormone that kind of spikes a bit as our body prepares for

Kasia Stiggelbout (27:07)
for implantation

Deb (27:08)
implantation.

and then it drops right before a cycle and so if we don't slow down and turn towards and try to cultivate some grace for ourselves if we add more pressure we work out harder when our body is saying to slow down when we burn the candle at both ends

Kasia Stiggelbout (27:09)
and then it drops right before our cycle. And so if we don't slow down and turn towards and try to cultivate some grace for ourselves, if we add more pressure, if we work out harder when our body is saying to slow down, when we burn the candle at both ends, we are just contributing to future imbalances. It is pulling from the savings account of future cycles. And I think that is just

Deb (27:26)
Yeah.

Kasia Stiggelbout (27:37)
That was really eye-opening for me that we talk about like no pain, no gain or narratives around rest when you're dead, you know? But that's not the reality. Like we're just pulling from future selves, right? Like our experiences now pull from the parts of us that may

or may not have as much.

Deb (27:56)
much energy

Kasia Stiggelbout (27:57)
energy and nourishment to conceive to really have an amazing postpartum experience to have a kind of nourished perimenopausal menopausal experience. So this stuff is does really add up and that's really where Chinese medicine talks a lot about that. And that was quite a powerful reframe for me.

Deb (27:57)
and nourishment to conceive to really have an amazing postpartum experience to have a kind of nourished perimenopausal menopausal experience. this stuff is does really add up and that's really where Chinese medicine talks a lot about that and that was quite a powerful reframe. Yeah and I think of you know you said progesterone and that's that's the hormone that helps protect pregnancy.

Kasia Stiggelbout (28:25)
Yeah.

Deb (28:26)
And so if you think of, if you're not resting and you're pushing through over and over and over, we're, you know, hopefully having 12 cycles a year, and sometimes people have more or less, but if you think of years and years before your childbearing, and then you're trying to get pregnant, and you're pushing through over and over and over, think of that debt that you have for your hormones. And we wonder.

Kasia Stiggelbout (28:48)
I know.

Deb (28:50)
when we're so stressed out, why we have a hard time either getting pregnant or staying pregnant.

Kasia Stiggelbout (28:57)
Yes.

And it's evolutionary too, actually, right? Because before those spikes in cortisol, those would come up because we were experiencing outside stress. Like a lion was invading our tribe or whatever, right? yeah, and that's a good thing. And so for those trying to conceive and thinking about attuning to their cycles, that's why this is quite important to just give ourselves some grace and to release the pressure. And I understand that even saying this can sometimes

Deb (29:00)
Because before those spikes in cortisol, those would, you know, come up.

Absolutely. Sure. Yeah, and we need that. Yeah.

That's why.

Kasia Stiggelbout (29:27)
create stress because it's like my god second half of my cycle the idea the idea yeah i know that is so relatable but the idea is really just to follow the peaks and valleys of your energy and honor that because your body is trying to tell you something like there's a reason why we're called to slow down right during that time

Deb (29:29)
Totally. I don't want to be stressed. I'm stressed about being stressed. Totally.

Love your energy and honor that because your body's...

Yeah.

Well, and also I think understanding that that is going to be a process. If we have been this way our whole lives and we've been taught this, like, you know, hustle culture where we're like, OK, I'm going to listen to my body. you're just like, listening, I'm listening. Well, you might not have a lot of signs yet because you're so over burnt out. And so it can take.

months to be able to like really lean into and listening to those signs in your body that are telling you what is what.

Kasia Stiggelbout (30:21)
100%, 100%. And this is where we didn't talk as much about it, but I do think thinking about food and movement in addition to productivity is important. And I think without going into too much detail, becoming aware of how different foods affect our bodies, especially before our period, you know,

Deb (30:31)
And I think without going into too much detail.

There's a lot of really good research coming out about how caffeine, alcohol, does really, the blood sugar increases can also raise cortisol. Alcohol is known to disrupt our blood sugar balance. Caffeine, coffee especially, is known to spike cortisol in our body as well as we have that adrenaline.

Kasia Stiggelbout (30:42)
There's a lot of really good research coming out about how, know, caffeine, alcohol, sugar does really the blood sugar increases can also raise cortisol. Alcohol is known to disrupt our blood sugar balance. Caffeine, coffee especially is known to spike cortisol in our body as well as we have that adrenaline

rush. And those things also contribute to the anxiety that a lot of women might feel during this time of month.

Deb (31:04)
And those things also contribute to the anxiety that a lot of women might feel during this time of month.

there's

Kasia Stiggelbout (31:12)
and there's just a lot more research now that shows that how some of the consuming a lot of those foods can throw off how we feel right at the start of our next menstrual cycle and it all just physiologically makes sense and this is why that attunement can be so powerful.

Deb (31:12)
just a lot more research now that shows that how some of the consuming a lot of those foods can throw off how we feel right at the start of our next menstrual cycle. And it all just physiologically makes sense. And this is why that attunement can be so powerful. Well, and like recognizing that

we may be using those things as tools to hustle, to get through those times of rest that you really, your body is crying for rest. And you're like, I don't have time for this. And so then we're just using the band-aid of caffeine as an upper and alcohol as a downer. And, you know, and sometimes just recognizing like, wow, I am using these tools and it might not be serving me well.

Kasia Stiggelbout (32:00)
Yeah, I'm so curious because this theme of listening to our bodies and honoring our bodies, especially for women that are on the journey from like made into motherhood because you work with so many of these women or women that are postpartum. Do you feel like that's a lot of that's a point of contention or friction for a lot of women to lean into that? Like, what does that look like in your practice?

Deb (32:10)
Because you work with so many of these women or women that are postpartum. you feel like that's a point of contention or friction for lot of women to lean into that? What does that look like in your practice? Yeah,

100%. I mean, I think that that's probably one of the biggest reasons why families are reaching out for support in postpartum is because they're recognizing that they have built their career and this is what their standard is and they're normal and they're like,

I understand it has to be different. There's more education now about it has to be different for postpartum. And they're just like, but how? This is how I've been my whole life. Type A personality, maybe a little anxious. I wanna do things right. There's a right and a wrong. And that journey from maiden to motherhood is kind of learning there is no right or wrong. It's what you want it to be.

and the slowing down. And as you were talking about the seasons, I was really resonating with the rest and the winter as a bigger picture of that pregnancy journey. And recognizing that those hormones is the biggest change in hormones after you have your baby is right after that placenta comes out, is the hormones are just gone. And it's the biggest shift ever in your whole life. And so,

when that happens, I mean, we have those baby blues that come up and we have all these things that these shifts in your milk may be coming in and all these things are happening. And we as a society now don't give honor to that rest. And now people are recognizing like, wow, for me to succeed and bounce back. So sometimes it comes from a different place of like, I have to bounce back. So I'm going to really want to honor that time.

but not understanding that it is a cycle, but it's different for everybody. And that that on that time and that rest that winter can last a very long time, just depending on how your pregnancy went, how your birth went, what your baby is doing, you know, if they're having any kind of issues. but I noticed that the, the moms who

Kasia Stiggelbout (34:14)
Yeah.

Deb (34:36)
have the high power career have a harder time with the rest and they've never really slowed down in their cycles and so they have a really hard time with slowing down physically because their mind is always gonna go you know yeah so it's it's interesting to see and i'm seeing a shift you know and that's good but i think it there's not enough honor to that maiden to motherhood of like going

Kasia Stiggelbout (34:52)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Deb (35:05)
in the depths and being in the underworld of learning like it's gonna get worse before it gets better but it's not a bad thing and it's something we go through to have that transformation.

Kasia Stiggelbout (35:16)
Yeah.

my God, I love what you said about going into the depths and the underworld because when you think about birthing overall and when you think about bleeding every month, there's so much stigma around that darkness, those dark phases, the dark phase of winter and bleeding and then of birthing and the whole experience of what happens there. And I think that there's almost like a broader theme of from a

Deb (35:23)
because

But like there's...

Yes

and I think that...

Kasia Stiggelbout (35:49)
like yin and yang perspective, where yang is the masculine and yin is the feminine, like we're so overcompensating on the yang right now. And this conversation, I think the broader theme is just like bringing back some of the yin, like some of the receptive, restful qualities. And the yin also, you know, kind of from a color perspective is dark. It is that underworld and...

Deb (35:52)
I feel it.

Okay. Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Kasia Stiggelbout (36:16)
we've rejected that in society. Like we just praise the bouncy youthful perky good girl, like all that stuff. But I think that that's why turning towards and just using our cycle as one example of that, turning towards the underworld parts of ourselves at the last kind of tail ends of our cycle when Jezebel comes up or the PMS voices come up. Like that is just practice for all of these other phases.

Deb (36:17)
Mm-hmm

That's it. Go, go, go! Yes!

Yeah.

and

Kasia Stiggelbout (36:45)
And I think that there's something so like it almost gives me chills. It's so empowering

Deb (36:45)
I think that there's something so, like it almost gives me chills. It's so empowering.

Kasia Stiggelbout (36:50)
to think about women being like, I'm gonna turn towards my dark side and I'm gonna embrace her because society doesn't teach us to do it. Like we're not, that's not where the marketing is. The marketing is like, you know, it's gross, like fix it. It's not attractive.

Deb (36:53)
and I'm gonna embrace her. doesn't teach us to do it. That's not where the marketing is. The marketing is like, you know, it's gross, like fix it. Well, put a tampon in and you

can do all the athletics you want. And like, it's not very happening. Pretend it's not happening. Don't let anybody know you have your period. It's like, half of society has a period, people. Like, it's okay.

Kasia Stiggelbout (37:07)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And like

for birthing too, it's like bounce back like this. Like your body should look the same that it did before you had a child. Your energy levels should be the same. I mean, you just gave birth to new life. Like, yeah. Yeah.

Deb (37:29)
You just gave birth to new life. Yeah. Well, and I love that

idea of like the darkness and turning toward it of like an opportunity, like you were saying, an opportunity to care for yourself and that maybe we can look at it as like that the feminine part of like, there's a reason why there's two, right? There's like the powerful production and then there's the rest. And so it's like

one without the other is just imbalanced. And so part of like what we can bring to society is like honoring that and like the rest that we really all of society needs and like having a movement of like, and that all starts with you in your body and learning that about yourself. And then you can spread that to others, you know.

Kasia Stiggelbout (38:00)
100%.

my gosh, yes. And that gets me so excited because, you know, I think about that imbalance of yin and yang, like we can see it in the environment. If you don't have rain, you have drought, you have wildfires. It's just the overtaking of that heat, that doing, that aggressive productivity. And I feel like we see that in our world right now. And we...

Deb (38:25)
If you don't have

Kasia Stiggelbout (38:38)
And this is why I think that, you know, we talk about cycle syncing as a concept or honoring the phases and cycles of our birthing experience as women and our postpartum experience. But I think this is actually a broader conversation about the rewilding, the reclaiming of our true feminine essence as women and stepping into that. And that's why I'm so excited about what you're doing, because you're you're you're there as a guide and as a

Deb (38:48)
as well.

rewilding the reclaiming of our

and stepping into that. that's why I'm so.

Kasia Stiggelbout (39:08)
support

system to help women lean into that because who else like no one else has taught women that this is okay. Like there's there are like lineages of women who have been taught that this is wrong. And so this is an opportunity for all of us to bring more of the feminine essence, cyclical living, feminine concepts, the yin into the world, like into the workplace, into how we interact with people, how we work.

Deb (39:10)
Mm-hmm.

Okay, great.

who have been taught that this is wrong.

begin into the world, into the workplace, into...

Kasia Stiggelbout (39:38)
how we work out, that I think is like a true revolution, frankly, to do something like that. Like each of us can do it.

Deb (39:38)
workout.

frankly yeah

Yeah. Well, and that kind of leads to my next question. And we're talking about like the lies that we've been told as women in society about menstruation and fertility and motherhood. What do you think is like the most harmful ones and what truths would you offer instead? We touched on a couple already.

Kasia Stiggelbout (40:04)
Oof.

Yeah, I mean, there's so many, but I think this is gonna be like a controversial statement, but I do believe that as women, we're being a bit bamboozled. Like, I think that we are being told that to be a woman is to act like a man, frankly, right? Like,

Deb (40:15)
That's okay.

Mm-hmm.

to be.

like a man, right? Like

that.

Kasia Stiggelbout (40:33)
that

we can work the same way as men, that we can operate the same way as men, that once we birth, we can bounce back as if men even go through that. So how would they know? And they're the ones who make a lot of these policies, right? And I think that this is a lie that unfortunately is perpetuating across multiple phases of life. And as a woman myself, like as somebody who identifies or identified as a very type A kind of

Deb (40:36)
Mm-hmm.

and who wants me?

Right.

I do.

Kasia Stiggelbout (41:03)
of

picture, almost like picture framed version of the woman that really stood for that. Hyper independent, paid off all my student loans early, like rose the corporate ladder. I'm seeing right now as a 36 year old working to rebalance my own hormones and get back to a place of homeostasis to conceive that it is not that easy. And I think that.

Deb (41:06)
Yeah.

Yeah.

of homeostasis to conceive that it is not that easy and I think that

Kasia Stiggelbout (41:28)
a lot of women will see and we're going to hear about this more and more and more over the next five years for sure. There are a lot of women that were promised the story of you can delay all of this and worry about your body later, no problem. And that's not true. That's not true. Like I don't think that a lot of women know that the like,

Deb (41:34)
There are a lot of women that were promised the story of you can delay all of this and worry about your own leader.

That's not true.

Kasia Stiggelbout (41:55)
kind of average IVF success rate, just average per cycle IVF success rate is 50%. And that goes down over like after 35. Women don't know that. Like we think it's a guarantee. And so we keep plowing through in our careers and operating in this masculine way, but it is not a guarantee. I think more women need to hear that. And not enough women are being told this.

Deb (41:58)
average per cycle IVF success rate is 50 % and that goes down over like after every five. That's devastating. We think it's a guarantee.

here.

And not enough women are being told this. Right.

Yeah, and you can delay if you want to, but here are the facts about what that looks like. What that looks like for everybody. because there is no guarantee.

Kasia Stiggelbout (42:29)
The facts, exactly. Yes, yes.

Yeah, and I think that is the major thing that I think that if women knew, because I recently saw the stats myself, like I did not know this. Like I don't think we're told this.

And I think that is really, really important that we're trading something off. I think that if I were to summarize the lie is that as women, we are trading something off and just to make that choice consciously that if you, you know, if you're going to burn your body out today, you are burning from your future self in some capacity. It is just not, it's not never ending well. And I think that's not to say that everybody should have kids. don't believe that. I don't think that.

Deb (42:58)
Yeah.

Right.

It's just not, it's not never ending well. And I think that's not to say that everybody should have kids and don't believe that. I don't think that, you know,

Kasia Stiggelbout (43:17)
you know, that is the only path for people. think everyone can do what feels right for them, but I think that not enough women know that they are trading something off, because we're not being told that there is a trade off. Men too, but that's a whole nother story if we're talking about women specifically, yeah.

Deb (43:17)
that is the only path for people. think everyone can do what feels right for them. But I think that not enough women know that they're trading something off. Because we're not being told that there is a trade off. Men too, but that's a whole nother story. We're talking about women specifically. Yeah.

Yeah, I completely agree. Is that I think a lot of people, a lot of women just don't understand how hard it can be when you're like, okay, I'm not ready for kids, but now I am. And you think instantly it's gonna happen. And that's not necessarily case when you had cycle after cycle after cycle of just not honoring that part of you.

Kasia Stiggelbout (43:59)
Yeah, 100%, 100%.

I'm so glad that you're sharing kind of the whole process of conception and birthing and postpartum, because I think that this extends to the postpartum period as well, that if we don't nourish ourselves in that postpartum period, we are pulling from ourselves for the next phase of life, right? In Chinese medicine, women go through a change in life phases every seven years, and that times itself quite perfectly

Deb (44:13)
Absolutely.

And that times itself quite perfectly

Kasia Stiggelbout (44:31)
to some of the hormonal shifts that we start to see in our bodies. And so if we don't care for our bodies and our cycles, maybe if we just cycle every month and care for ourselves that way, or if we don't care for ourselves that way and we don't care for ourselves postpartum, we will see it in the next phase, which would be like the perimenopause, menopausal phase.

Deb (44:31)
to some of the hormonal shifts that we start to see in our bodies. And so if we don't care for our bodies and our cycles, maybe if we just cycle every month and care for ourselves that way, or if we don't care for ourselves that way and we don't care for ourselves postpartum, we will see it in the next phase, which would be like the perimenopause-menopausal phase.

And so we're caught, are pulling from a savings account.

Kasia Stiggelbout (44:53)
And so we are pulling from a savings account. Yeah.

Deb (44:57)
Yeah. the reverse is also true because we're all talking about reframing is that, um, I was talking to a naturopath about postpartum nutrition and she just emphasized that this is such an opportunity in postpartum to rewrite your body's nutritional nourishment and that you can actually heal your body the most effectively during that time.

Kasia Stiggelbout (45:00)
Yes! True.

Mmm.

100%, 100%. In Chinese medicine, that is the time to replenish the Jing essence, the essence of our life force. So I love that. And every month we have an opportunity to do it as well, which is incredible. Yeah.

Deb (45:28)
and change up

I love that.

Yeah. Which is incredible. Yeah. And we can

totally get, go down another rabbit hole of seed cycling and like, you know, nourishing your body at different times of the month and what kind of foods can be most optimal. Um, sometimes that can get a little overwhelming for people. So that will be next time, but yeah. Yeah. Um, so we kind of talked on this, but one of my questions was, why do you think our culture struggles so much with honoring the feminine? Um, whether it's the menstrual cycle.

Kasia Stiggelbout (45:53)
That'll be next time, yeah.

Deb (46:06)
postpartum healing or just rest in general.

Kasia Stiggelbout (46:10)
Well, this might sound so cliche, but this is like in a total not male hating way, but we do live in a patriarchal society, right? And it's set up that way.

Deb (46:16)
Right. Yeah. Well, it's set up for them, right? And then we try, we've tried to take, you know, it's like

a square box and we're the circle and we're like trying to fit ourselves into that box and it just doesn't work. Exactly. And I think that's.

Kasia Stiggelbout (46:28)
Exactly, exactly. And I think that's

just a cultural evolution that's happened, you know? just this is coming from a kind of, if you look at the history of, let's just take work as an example, work was, so.

Deb (46:34)
Mm-hmm.

Kasia Stiggelbout (46:46)
Originally when we lived in tribes, work was kind of distributed in a very different way, right? Like men were mostly responsible for, you know, the hunting and protecting, women were gathering and tending. That then evolved to agricultural societies where families worked together on the farm seasonally. And then with the rise of the industrial revolution, we had kind of the rise of factory work, which women were actually quite involved in, especially during World War II. But this was,

Deb (46:50)
Like men were mostly responsible for...

where families work together on the farm.

rise of the industrial

to women were actually.

especially during World War II. But this was all

Kasia Stiggelbout (47:16)
all designed

Deb (47:16)
designed...

Kasia Stiggelbout (47:17)
around like a very male design structure. A lot of the executives that were setting things like the 40 hour work week, which came from Henry Ford, was to optimize the production of cars and of their rhythms and their schedules and a timeline that is completely disconnected from feminine rhythm. And so you can see over time, there are just these breaks that happened from even working seasonally, which is the broader feminine rhythm in this

Deb (47:20)
a lot of the executives that were setting things like the 40 hour work week which came from Henry Ford was to optimize the production of cars and of their rhythms and their schedules and a timeline that is completely disconnected from feminine rhythm and so you can see over time

from even working seasonally, which is the broader feminine rhythm in the seasons

Kasia Stiggelbout (47:46)
seasons that we experience and really

Deb (47:46)
that we experience and really move...

Kasia Stiggelbout (47:49)
moving towards a framework that is just structured a certain way. And I think that we have an incredible opportunity as women now that we are in the workplace that we, I mean, the rates for college graduates.

higher percentage of college graduates are women at this time and so

Deb (48:09)
Mm-hmm.

Kasia Stiggelbout (48:10)
we can really make a dent and start to change how we think about productivity and work and how we lead teams by introducing a more some of the more feminine qualities into the workplace and that that's not to say you know the feminine qualities are all the emotional qualities and stuff like that however you know there is research that shows that women are you know

Deb (48:16)
and work and how we lead teams by introducing some of the more feminine.

That's not to say the feminine qualities are all the emotional qualities and stuff like that. However, there is research that shows that women are superior

Kasia Stiggelbout (48:34)
superior multitaskers, they are more empathetic by nature. That's how they resolve conflicts to tend and befriend as opposed to fight or flight. And we've trained women to move away from that and to go into fight or flight and to be stressed out and to be reactive in our lives.

Deb (48:34)
multitaskers. They are more empathetic by nature. That's how they resolve conflicts to tend and befriend as opposed to fight or flight. And we've trained women to move away from that and to go into fight or flight and to be stressed out and to be reactive in our lives.

Kasia Stiggelbout (48:52)
How can we just shift and honor the gifts that women innately have? I think it'll make the whole...

Deb (48:53)
just shift and honor the gifts that women innately have. I think it'll make the whole

workplace better if we're just talking about that, right? Just the workplace, which I think influences a lot of commerce and the products that you see and all of that. there is a trickle down effect here that I think is

Kasia Stiggelbout (49:00)
workplace better if we're just talking about that, right? Just the workplace, which I think influences a lot of commerce and the products that you see and all of that. So there is a trickle down effect here that I think is

totally possible. That was a really long answer to your question.

Deb (49:15)
No, but I

think it all, you know, it all connects to everything we're talking about very beautifully. And that actually leads to my next question about embodiment. You talk about that and the liminal spaces. Do you want to go into that a little bit?

Kasia Stiggelbout (49:29)
yeah, yeah. Well, Deb, I feel like if anybody knows about liminal spaces, it's you actually. You work with women in liminal spaces, but I think, so embodiment, it's such a fancy word. It just represents inhabiting your body and cultivating mindful awareness within our bodies. I think that the term mindfulness is really overused when we hear about the head spaces and the comms of the world. A lot of it is,

Deb (49:48)
I think that the term mindfulness is...

Mm-hmm.

Kasia Stiggelbout (49:58)
training our focus, which is amazing and wonderful and very important to train our focus, train it on the breath. But I think embodiment, which can come in the practice of tracking your cycle and just checking in with your body on a daily basis, or when meditating, feeling into the sensations of your body, some of the more somatic practices, embodiment is the result of some of those practices, feeling that connection and attunement.

Deb (50:00)
She's amazing.

But I think...

if he makes this.

is the first time.

is the result of some of those practices. Feeling that connection and attunement

to what is happening internally or interoception. It is so important for the cultivation of intuition, for feeling that mind-body connection. It can help us get out of our heads and into our bodies, which decreases stress. And I think it's something that is often overlooked, because we're so optimized for what's happening in our heads. But it's something that I'm very, very passionate about.

Kasia Stiggelbout (50:28)
to what is happening internally or interoception. It is so important for the cultivation of intuition, for feeling that mind-body connection. It can help us get out of our heads and into our bodies, which decreases stress. And I think it's something that is often overlooked, because we're so optimized for what's happening in our heads. But it's something that I'm very, very passionate

about. And so I think that cycle syncing is one example of that, but.

Deb (50:52)
So I think that cycle syncing is one example of that.

everything that you do with

Kasia Stiggelbout (50:56)
Everything that you do

with women, intending to women throughout the pregnancy and postpartum period, there's so many opportunities to turn towards our physical experience instead of away from, and just turn towards with compassion.

Deb (51:08)
Yeah,

that actually reminds you of a class I just took and one of the practices when we started was Saying something you're feeling in your body not a feeling of like I'm sad. I'm happy but an actual sensation that you're feeling in your body. I'm warm

Kasia Stiggelbout (51:28)
Yeah.

Deb (51:29)
I feel buzzy, I feel tingly. And it was at first very hard to do. I was like, this is so weird. Like, usually when we say how do you feel, it's emotion in your mind. And this was such a different experience. And as we went through the weeks, it got easier and easier just tuning into that. But I was wondering if you would have any suggestions on like a ritual or a grounding practice that

you find would be really helpful when life feels like, say postpartum, and they're like so uncertain and so overwhelmed, what is maybe a suggestion women can do in those moments to embody their body again, because sometimes we can just have this life force that is just, feel so out of control, you're outside of your body, and to like just become more sensitive.

Kasia Stiggelbout (52:12)
Yeah.

Well, I can relate to that a lot. And I have so much compassion for women who are going through that, that feeling of are almost like we want to crawl out of our own skin or we're just spiraling, you know, the spiraling in our heads out of our bodies. So many of us feel that. And I can only imagine how much harder it must be postpartum when your body feels like a stranger to you because it's changed so much. Right. And the hormones, I think one practice that I

Deb (52:38)
Mm-hmm.

So many.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kasia Stiggelbout (52:54)
absolutely love, which I actually did with you right now. You didn't even really notice because it's thought obvious. But if whether I'm sitting or I'm standing, I take a moment to pause and ground down into.

Deb (52:58)
Yeah.

Kasia Stiggelbout (53:07)
my seat or my feet and imagining my energy kind of going down into the ground and feeling like the this might sound a little woo but I think we're here for it right just really feel like yeah feel the energy almost feel like the mother earth or the earth pulling energy down to your feet and that kind of

Deb (53:08)
on my feet. Okay.

yeah, yeah, we're all for the woo here.

Mm-hmm.

Kasia Stiggelbout (53:32)
awareness and that conscious almost shifting of energy can be profoundly helpful.

I'm sure that there's research on it. can't think of the article that I'll link, but maybe I'll follow up and share it with you. there is, know, Qigong is an amazing practice and there are lot of online YouTube videos that kind of speak to, it's, it's a great embodiment practice and it can be very simple to do some of the movements, but the premise is really rooting down into your feet, rooting down into your Dan Tian, which is right underneath your belly button. And so,

Deb (53:47)
know, Qigong isn't a me.

Takes a second.

Kasia Stiggelbout (54:08)
Doing that just in a moment, you know when we feel like we're taking we're being

taken out of her body can be so helpful I do it when I lay down to bed if I'm feeling anxious kind of feeling myself beheld like the part that is in contact with the earth just Really feeling almost as though it's pulling the energy out of you and it just does that does so much it feels rooting Literally like the roots of a plant. Yeah

Deb (54:31)
Yeah,

and one of my favorite meditations is exactly that is that where you Imagine you are rooting into the ground and then you are giving away all the stress on the anxiety or the things you're worried about and you're breathing in love and calm

from the earth. That is like one of my favorite ones. Yeah, I love that.

Kasia Stiggelbout (54:52)
I love that.

Wait, you got to send it to me. want to listen to that one. Yeah.

Deb (54:55)
Yeah, well, you know what?

I actually it's from a public for therapists locally that you know I had been going to her and she was the first one that did it with me and it's my favorite one She just does it, you know in person. So I'll have to ask her if she would record it for us So good, it feels yeah, it feels really good. Yeah Totally. Yeah

Kasia Stiggelbout (55:09)
Wow.

Yeah, my gosh, that sounds so good. I love that. Yeah, that's the vibe though, for sure.

Deb (55:21)
Okay, so we're gonna start wrapping it up. I don't want to take too much more of your time But for anybody who's listening and feels out of sync with their body, maybe they're exhausted disconnected postpartum Or they're trying to get pregnant What is the first step that they could take to begin reconnecting with their body and getting in sync with? What their body is telling them?

Kasia Stiggelbout (55:43)
Yeah, well, I would say the first thing that I would recommend is to just take a moment. This might be cheesy, but take a moment to offer yourself some love. Like maybe taking a moment after a shower or even as you're listening to this to just pause, feel into your heart space and give yourself some gratitude. especially as women, our bodies go through so much and

Deb (56:08)
actually

Kasia Stiggelbout (56:13)
they're on our sides. Like we don't always remember that, but they're really on our sides. And if you're postpartum and you just gave birth to a baby, you just gave birth to life and our bodies are always trying to support us. And also I want to mention there could be many women that are postpartum with circumstances where they did not give birth to a healthy baby or, or at all, right? Like like late miscarriage and

Deb (56:17)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Vaginally. They had a belly birth. Absolutely.

Kasia Stiggelbout (56:40)
I think taking a moment to really just connect with your body and remember that you're on the same team and you're in this together. Your body is not the enemy. It's always trying to support you. It is like the vessel for your life, future life, if you choose to have it or if you've had it, it helped birth that. And just to start there, I think just to take a moment.

Deb (56:48)
and you're in this together. Your body's not the enemy. It's always trying to support you. It is like the vessel for your life, future life, if you choose to have it, or if you've had it, it helped birth that. And just to start there, I think, just to take a moment,

maybe in the morning before you wake up or before you go to bed.

Kasia Stiggelbout (57:08)
maybe in the morning before you wake up or before you go to bed

to just put your hands on your heart on your belly and give yourself just a moment of love it might sound so cheesy and if that feels really inaccessible because i also know that depending on

Deb (57:11)
to just put your hands on your heart, on your belly, and give yourself just a moment of love. It might sound so cheesy. And if that feels really inaccessible, because I also know that depending on

Kasia Stiggelbout (57:24)
what you know your your history and your relationship that could seem really inaccessible is inaccessible for me for a very long time then I think the

Deb (57:25)
your history and your relationship, that could seem really inaccessible. It was inaccessible for me for very long time. Then I think that...

Kasia Stiggelbout (57:33)
the practice that I would recommend starting with would be to take a moment to ground and instead of focusing on feeling in to your relationship with your heart with your body feel into the support that you have on this earth with the support of the earth in your feet or in your cith bones if you're sitting and to just start

Deb (57:34)
starting with would be to take a moment to ground and instead of focusing on feeling into your relationship with your heart with your body feel into the support that you have on this earth with the support of the earth in your feet or in your sitz bones if you're sitting and to just start with

Kasia Stiggelbout (57:54)
with that every single day because I think it's so important to name that if

Deb (57:55)
that every single day because i think it's so important to name that if

We're feeling that disconnected feeling. many of the things we're exposed to in our lives are unfortunately designed to take us out of our bodies. So it's not evolved in feeling that way. Oh, and it's so common.

Kasia Stiggelbout (58:02)
we're feeling that disconnected feeling so many of the things we're exposed to in our lives are unfortunately designed to take us out of our bodies so it's not your fault if you're feeling that way like truly

Deb (58:16)
I mean, we're just so like to-do list and we've got to do this and that. We hardly have time to even think about that. So I think that's a really easy, accessible way to just like start that.

connection to yourself and your body. That's awesome. Okay, well, how do you hope for this next generation, our kids will grow up relating to their bodies and their rhythms and their worth because it all starts there, right? We've gone through so much healing in our generation of breaking family cycles and trauma and blah, blah, but how do we pass that on to our kids so that they can start there?

Kasia Stiggelbout (58:53)
my god.

Deb (58:55)
and then build from it.

Kasia Stiggelbout (58:57)
I love that. What a good question, Dub. Well, for me, would say that I hope that our future generation is able to identify and align with values that truly matter to them. I think that a lot of what

Deb (58:58)
Yeah. Thanks.

I think that...

Kasia Stiggelbout (59:15)
We are pulled to do the actions were pulled to take the jobs were pulled to take the relationships were pulled to be in a lot of the time can be very unconscious and actually not aligned with our values and what we truly care about. I like just taking the example of choosing success, but at the costs of our bodies, right? Like obviously there are circumstances that require us to make some trade offs, right? Like fight or flight situations, but to do that repeatedly over and over

Deb (59:21)
The relationships we're pulled to be in a lot of the time can be very unconscious and actually not aligned with our values and what we truly care about. Like just taking the example of choosing success but at the cost of our bodies, right? Like obviously there are circumstances that require us to make some trade-offs. or flight situations, but to do that repeatedly over and over again,

Kasia Stiggelbout (59:45)
again. I don't think anyone

Deb (59:45)
I don't think any...

Kasia Stiggelbout (59:46)
would objectively say that's what they want to do and so I really hope that the next generation

Deb (59:48)
to do and so I really hope that the next generation and

Kasia Stiggelbout (59:54)
and future generations are able to choose the value systems that matter to them and then live in accordance with that. Because I think that a lot, it can be so easy, especially with social media right now, to be maneuvered in different directions, directions that we may not inherently value. Like I don't think any of us value spending a third of our lives on our phones, on social media, yet

Deb (59:54)
future generations are able to choose the value systems that matter to them and then live in accordance with that because I think that a lot it can be so easy especially with social media right now to be maneuvered in different directions directions that we may not inherently value like I don't think any of us value spending you know a third of our lives on our phones on social media yet

Kasia Stiggelbout (1:00:18)
the numbers add up to that if we're not careful, right? Yeah.

Deb (1:00:18)
The numbers add up to that if you're not careful. If you're not conscious

about it. Yeah. 100%. Yeah, for sure. Well, thank you so much for being here. This was such a wonderful conversation and I am so glad you reached out. I think what you do is so important and I look forward to looking into your planner and just kind of getting more into this. if anybody has any questions.

Kasia Stiggelbout (1:00:24)
100%.

Deb (1:00:45)
Just reach out, I will put all the contact information in the show notes and the other resources that we talked about. But yeah, feel free to check out her planner. So thank you so much for being here.

Kasia Stiggelbout (1:00:57)
Thank you.

Thank you for having me. I love this talk. I feel like I've known you for years. This is great. Hey.

Deb (1:01:03)
I know this was like, I was like, hey bestie, what's up? Well,

I'd love to have you back anytime if you have another thing to talk about or if you want to go deeper on any of these things. So feel free to reach out and we'll do it again. All right. coming. I'll see you later.

Kasia Stiggelbout (1:01:18)
Amazing, Thank you.

Deb (1:01:24)
What a breath of fresh air, honoring our cycles isn't just about avoiding burnout. It's about accessing our fullest creativity, potential, and ease. Here are a few takeaways I hope land in your heart today. Your body is not a machine, it's a rhythm, and that rhythm deserves respect.

productivity doesn't have to mean pushing through. It can mean flowing with and you are not broken. You are likely just burnt out from trying to live in a system that doesn't support your biology. And if you're in a postpartum season or your cycle hasn't returned, Kasha's reminder still stands. You can still tune into your inner rhythm. It's not all about periods. It's about presence and permission.

If this episode made you feel seen, nourished, or just curious to learn more, I want you to go check out Kasha's inflow planner and tools at inflowplanner.com.

Deb (1:02:24)
and she has so graciously offered a discount code where you get 15 % off an inflow planner. All you have to do is click on the link in the show notes or enter the coupon code DOULADEB15 with no spaces.

I hope that you go check her out because I am totally obsessed.

And lastly, if you're looking for support around reclaiming your own rhythms in early parenthood, you know exactly where to find me, Until next time, rest when you can, hydrate often, and trust that your body knows exactly what it's doing.