27 - Returning to Work After Baby: What Jamie Wishes She Knew (Guest: Jamie Blackall)

In this refreshingly honest episode of Doula Talk, Deb sits down with her own virtual assistant (and former teacher turned homeschool mama), Jamie Blackall. Together, they tackle the often-overwhelming experience of returning to work after having a baby—from the emotional upheaval to the logistical chaos and everything in between.
Jamie opens up about her journey through infertility, postpartum adjustments, and the hard decision to leave her traditional teaching job for a more flexible, family-aligned career. Whether you're already back at work, preparing for that first day, or wondering if a change might be on the horizon, Jamie’s story is filled with insights, laughter, and permission to do things differently.
👉 This episode is for you if:

• You’re feeling nervous (or downright dreading) the return to work
• You’re considering a career pivot after baby
• You want to hear a real, relatable story from someone who’s been there
• You’re wrestling with guilt, expectations, or simply trying to find your footing again

🎁 Free Resource: If you're prepping for maternity leave or planning your return, grab my Postpartum Logistics Checklist over on my blog to help you map out the practical side of the transition.
💬 Need support? Check out my First Year Support Program or book a postpartum planning session. Let’s take the guesswork out of what comes next."

Transcript

Deb (00:47)
Hey there and welcome back to Doula Talk. today we're getting into something so many parents tiptoe around but need to talk about, returning to work after having a baby. Whether you're headed back to your nine to five, considering a career pivot or just wondering how on earth anyone balances a pumping schedule with staff meetings, this episode is for you.

I'm joined by the amazing Jamie, former teacher, my actual current virtual assistant, homeschooling mom, and a certified real talk enthusiast. me, getting real today. We're diving into the emotional and logistical roller coaster of going back to work, navigating guilt, setting boundaries, and making bold choices that actually serve your family's well-being. Let's be real.

This episode is packed with the kind of wisdom and validation we all wish we had postpartum. settle in, you're gonna wanna hear this.

Deb (01:43)
welcome back to Doula Talk. I have a really special guest today. Her name is Jamie and we are going to talk about returning to work after baby. Thanks for coming, Jamie. So why don't you just start a little intro about yourself and what you do, a little bit about your journey.

Jamie Blackall (01:55)
Thank you for having me, Deb.

Okay, well my name is Jamie and I am Deb's virtual assistant. So I've been working hard. thanks. So I used to be a teacher. I taught for 16 years. I'm mom of two. I'm a fire wife. Now travel advisor and a virtual assistant. So I have two jobs and I just kind of, my heart changed. You once you...

Deb (02:09)
The best one.

Jamie Blackall (02:29)
or a mother and your heart just changes and you evolve and you want different things for your family and so I struggled as a teacher. I wanted to quit year two but it made it to 16. So, but just as a mom, like things changed and now my life is completely different than what I would have expected right now.

Deb (02:54)
What was the original

plan? with having kids?

Jamie Blackall (02:55)
just

to get an MRS degree and have babies when I was young and that didn't work out. So like I to get a real job. And being a teacher is such a bait and switch whenever like, it started in like 07, they're like, it's such a good job to have with kids. You get off at 3.30 summers off. I'm like, yeah.

Deb (03:05)
You

sounds great.

Jamie Blackall (03:20)
you work overtime, you

Deb (03:21)
Except for...

Jamie Blackall (03:22)
work in bed at night, you work before school, you work during the summer, like it's just, no. So, yeah, but no. I always tell the young teachers and I'm sure I got in trouble, like I was like, you sure you wanna do And they were in my classroom, like, are you sure you want to do this? And I would be the one being honest. I'm like, you might wanna check some of those out.

Deb (03:27)
Yeah. In theory it sounds great.

Think about that. It's a little

late though, by the time 13, teacher.

Jamie Blackall (03:48)
Yeah,

I was away from me to go so you know.

Deb (03:52)
That's true.

Hey, that's actually really good segue into what made you want to be part of this conversation about returning to work after you had your babies because you have two

Jamie Blackall (04:02)
well, you know, I think the fertile teachers get to plan out their babies when they have them for breaks. I struggled with infertility, but that's a completely different subject. once my first baby, Waylon, he's about to be seven now. So I had him in April. So I got to finish the rest of the year and then have summer. So then whenever I transitioned back to work, it wasn't.

Deb (04:10)
Mm-hmm.

Wow.

Jamie Blackall (04:29)
that hard because I already had so much time with him. I was at home, breastfeeding went great. I was at a new position and a new school and was such a supportive principal. They gave me the keys to some testing room that I could pump in. They rearranged my schedule. They really, really took care of me. I can't say that about...

My second baby, since we did struggle with infertility, we had him back to back. So, Waylon was six months when I got pregnant with Josie. So, they were 15 months apart. And she was due, to be in August, which is when school starts, but she came a week early. So, I started the year off on maternity leave. The year before I was at a school, like they shut down my...

Deb (05:15)
Mm.

Jamie Blackall (05:20)
my program so I decided to go back to elementary school. So I was at a new school again, new grade back to elementary, didn't know the principal and it was just a rough start.

Deb (05:26)
you

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, because how many months did you get off?

Jamie Blackall (05:40)
Well, you're supposed to take the 10 or 12 weeks when you have like FMLA. I only took 10 because I wanted to be such a good employee. okay, here's some advice. Take your whole time. And no matter how good of employee you want to be, take your whole time. So they were off like, I started back after the first nine week grading period.

Deb (05:46)
Mm-hmm.

How do you feel about that now?

Jamie Blackall (06:06)
and my principal had fired my sub that I got ready for. this, she hired who she wanted. Found out all my stuff that I worked on was put on the shelf. Nobody even saw my sub plans or anything. When I came back, my classroom, I'm sorry, it was the biggest shit show ever. And I was just in there observing, I'm like, what is happening?

Deb (06:19)
No.

happening

and that's what your kids started off with so it's like it's really hard to to rein that back. Wow.

Jamie Blackall (06:36)
Yes. And

so I was like, you know what, I'm to be good. I'm going to come in. And I'm like, I didn't even know my teammates. I didn't know my kids' names. I didn't even know where the teacher's lounge was. it was a lot. And then I got my first negative review seven days after I'd been there.

Deb (07:00)
That's not okay.

Jamie Blackall (07:01)
hyped

it up, brought somebody from the superintendent into my room. And I was like, I don't even know where the computer plug is and how to use a projector. And we were trying to do a game and it was just a mess. And so that's how my year started. And I didn't know about pumping. And again, I was trying to be a good employee and not ruffle any feathers and I didn't ask for a pump time.

Deb (07:07)
Stop.

Thank much.

Jamie Blackall (07:28)
So I just had to pump during lunch, which you get like a short time for lunch and then during my conference time. And then so the stress and everything, my supply tanked. I was at wreck It was just in two babies that I had to, and I wasn't sleeping. I had to, you know, drop them off at two different places before school, work late, pick them up, cook dinner, put them to bed, work more.

Deb (07:38)
Yeah. And you had two babies at home, so it's not like they're sleeping.

Ugh.

Jamie Blackall (07:59)
And then Josie, at four months, my pediatrician was like, you need to kick her out and put her in her own room.

Deb (08:07)
that's a lot of judgment.

Jamie Blackall (08:10)
So I trusted the doctor and I did that and we had breastfeeding problems. Well that goes into another question that you had, like, well we can discuss later, was, Josie was just hard because I couldn't breastfeed her. I didn't know why. My pediatrician told me to kick her out of my bedroom because I wasn't sleeping and I was back at work and I was at four months. And I did it because I thought I was doing what I was supposed to do and I did the cry it out.

Deb (08:24)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And it, yeah. But it didn't feel right. But with everything going on too, you have to.

Jamie Blackall (08:38)
and it just broke my heart, but I'm like, but my doctor told me to do this.

No. But I had to sleep because I had to go to

work. Yeah, it was just, it was a train wreck and it was...

Deb (08:53)
It was

a hard place, a rock and a hard place, right? Like what do you do in that situation? You have to work, so you have to sleep, but your mama heart is breaking.

Jamie Blackall (09:04)
Yeah, and I was just like in survival mode, like constantly. So that's it in a nutshell.

Deb (09:09)
Yeah.

In a nutshell. So

looking Well, let's just start with your did you expect it to look like versus what it actually looked like?

Jamie Blackall (09:22)
Well, my first one, I feel like was easier. Amy and Josie, we had just moved into a new house too. My water broke a week before and we didn't even have furniture, so add that in as well. Yeah, so with Waylon, I was at my house. It was just, we would go on walks with my stroller. was taking my, it was great. He nursed all the time. I had a backup.

Deb (09:29)
Well, that's fun. That's me, you know. I thought it made you.

cool cool.

Jamie Blackall (09:52)
like stash for whenever I went. it, breastfeeding wasn't stressful and then I could still pump and it was just him. And I did have a supportive boss. At that time I volunteered to be the cheer coach which in my younger days that was my ideal job. But when you have a baby, it makes you resent that you volunteered for that because you just want to be home holding your baby.

Deb (09:55)
Mmm.

Yeah.

Jamie Blackall (10:22)
And

here you are with everybody else's kids up until nine o'clock. And you're just like, you just want to be home. That was when I started getting like really disgruntled. Is when you become become mom. That's all you want to do is be home.

Deb (10:26)
Yeah.

Right.

Yeah, I mean,

and it's hard to imagine when you're pregnant.

that that shift is so drastic. You know you want to hold on to who you are and you're not gonna, you don't think everything will change. You're just like, well, I'll just schedule childcare around the things that I really wanna do and wanna hold on to. But it's such a perspective change when it happens and you're like, yes, I wanna hold on to things that are meaningful to me in my life and what I expected, but.

Jamie Blackall (10:53)
Yeah.

Yes.

Deb (11:09)
It's also like, I really don't care about that right now. How long did that last for you, that first postpartum? Like, yeah. Never shifted.

Jamie Blackall (11:18)
I wasn't. I didn't because I

was happy. Like there were a couple of days where I would be like, this is hard just when you spend all day breastfeeding. And then he, like he had some like reflex and vomiting and stuff that didn't last very long. But I remember there were hard days because I felt like all I did was breastfeed. But that's as hard as it got.

Deb (11:30)
course. Yes.

Yeah.

for that one.

Jamie Blackall (11:47)
But

with Josie, I had so much going on. Plus, I had the copper IUD because I was like, yeah, two back to back. just need to hit a lot. And then I answered one of those stupid questionnaires at the doctor's office that I, now I probably wouldn't answer it, but then they suggested I needed to get on Zoloft.

Deb (11:57)
Yeah, gotta make sure that this is it for now.

Jamie Blackall (12:12)
So once again, trusting my doctors and I know like certain situations, but I was breastfeeding that made my supply tank. It made me numb.

Deb (12:23)
Yeah, so

they probably didn't take into account the things that you would be trading off. Because I mean, like you said, there's a time and a place for medication and it sounds like you needed some support, but like when you get the pros and cons sometimes you would make a different choice. So you had some backlash on that.

Jamie Blackall (12:32)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yes, a lot. the way I'm like, my supply went down, but I'm very sensitive to like medications and stuff. And I've taken stuff in the past where I'm like, this probably isn't the best. And I stop and then those things go away. And this was one of those things.

Deb (12:50)
Yeah, so your supply went down.

like medication.

Jamie Blackall (13:14)
that I had to manage and some bad things came from that combination.

Deb (13:17)
Mm.

Hmm.

Jamie Blackall (13:24)
What I think one of the things is like, how did you cope? I didn't cope. I drank. That's how I coped because I couldn't.

Deb (13:29)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's a

really common thing for our country. It's just, mommy's going to have her wine time at night. And it's not necessarily helpful.

Jamie Blackall (13:40)
And that's with work,

with home, I just, and then the drugs were already making me numb. And then something was just off. I couldn't put my finger on it. I'm like, that postpartum? Is it this? And I was just like me and my principal like this constantly, giving us each other like kill looks through the walls. And, but yeah, I spiraled.

Deb (13:54)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Jamie Blackall (14:09)
And I'm like, is it the IUD? And I would go play a little private investigator and go on Facebook groups with copper IUD. do you have copper toxicity? okay. Well, let's see. And then I went and I got like a hair mineral analysis test and they tested that. Well, it's not your copper, but what they did tell me was you are in such a state of fight or flight. If you don't do something about it, it's going to kill you.

Deb (14:16)
Dr. Google.

Mm-hmm.

Let's take a breath with that one. That is a hard thing to hear.

Jamie Blackall (14:39)
That

was the thing that I was like, okay, I need this thing out of me. I can't take this. can't work. Like, I'm like, some things need to change. Yes. And I feel like that was the beginning of me.

Deb (14:50)
Something big has to change. Something big, yeah.

Jamie Blackall (14:57)
And eventually, you know, I got out of teaching a couple years after that. But I'm like, this isn't good for my family. They're getting my leftovers. It wasn't good for my marriage.

Deb (15:10)
Well, besides

that, it's really not good for you. And that's such a wake-up call to have someone tell you your body is shutting down. What you're doing to yourself has to change.

Jamie Blackall (15:12)
No.

Mm-hmm.

And I thought, as long as I had this pretty, perfect, Pinterest nursery, which I still didn't even have because we had just moved, you know? I didn't get to nest or anything, but I'm like, well, that's all I have to do to get prepared for a baby. I just have to buy all this shit. No. There's a lot more to it. Yeah. So.

Deb (15:39)
Right? Yeah.

to it. So

from that ideal of what you thought it would look like after having your baby and returning to work, the reality was so different.

Jamie Blackall (15:56)
Yeah.

Deb (15:56)
That's a lot, Jamie.

Jamie Blackall (15:59)
Well, that's even like candy coated. Yeah.

Deb (16:00)
Yeah, that's

true. So what were the biggest challenges then of just like the no sleep or

Jamie Blackall (16:11)
That,

yes, and come to find out later, I actually have sleep apnea. I just found out like a year ago. So I probably had that on top of, I feel like I was uninformed. I was uninformed about my birth.

Deb (16:21)
Mm-hmm.

Jamie Blackall (16:30)
I was uninformed about postpartum. I was uninformed about medical choices, uninformed about boundaries at work. what, like, you need to say, no, you need to give me a pump time, you know, in a place.

Deb (16:45)
Right, and that's, I

mean, I don't know what your laws are in your state, but in Washington state, we legally are guaranteed to have those pump times. And a lot of employers either are not up to date on those laws, and you have to educate them, which can feel awkward. Yeah.

Jamie Blackall (16:56)
Yes.

Yes.

Deb (17:06)
Can I ask

you a question? I want to jump to something else because I want to hear how you think the support with each employer, so like one school to the other, how that impacted your return to work because it feels like from what you've already described that it was a huge impact on how that actually went well or not. And I mean, there is the added with the second one having two kids

home, so of course there's added stress there, but I want to know, like, how did that feel for you?

Jamie Blackall (17:43)
that I had two different support

systems or?

Deb (17:46)
Yeah,

that it sounds like the first one, you know, gave you a pump time in a room and, you know, and your postpartum at home was so much more relaxed. And so by the time you came back and then you had that support system, it felt like an easier transition is what I'm hearing. And then the second time around.

Jamie Blackall (18:04)
Yeah.

Deb (18:07)
Timing of the school year is like this whole other thing with teachers that some people can plan their pregnancies around that. not only that, but added having two kids at home, but then not being supportive of helping you with the transition back into work. Because there was a lot of things that could have been done to make that a little easier for their employee who just had a baby.

Jamie Blackall (18:10)
Yeah.

Yes.

yeah, and I never once heard, you got a baby, how was your time? We're glad that you're here. Welcome back. None of that. Basically, the meeting after that, because I called her out on her, the way she treated me, he basically told me that she didn't want me there. And so that, I had more.

Deb (18:45)
one.

disciplinary or whatever. Yeah.

It was an inconvenience

to have us up.

Jamie Blackall (19:04)
Yes.

But honestly, like principals, there's really not much accountability or there's not much continuity. It probably just depends on what kind of heart that person has to be supportive because, you know, at one school, a lot of the parents, I was pregnant at that school, not parents, a lot of my coworkers were all having babies. And so the principal knew.

She wasn't necessarily, she knew that she had to provide this closet that everybody pumped in, but she wasn't supportive either. And it's like, it's an inconvenience in the education thing where they have to get somebody to cover your class for you to go do that when everybody's like just on the minute throughout the school day.

Deb (19:33)
mean, it's not being surprised.

you

Great.

Right.

Can I ask if that principal had kids?

Jamie Blackall (20:05)
They were older. They were like teenagers. But she ran off so many teachers, like...

Deb (20:07)
huh. Sweet. Okay.

Well,

at least it wasn't personal, but I mean, I think the bigger the bigger problem is that, you know, there's laws in place, but this is what can happen. They will do the very minimum, bare minimum to meet those requirements. So there's no lawsuit. But it's the feeling, right, of like feeling supported and saying, OK, here's this area and time to do this. But if you do it, we're probably going to treat you differently.

Jamie Blackall (20:43)
Yes.

Deb (20:43)
and we're going to be kind of pissed about it.

Jamie Blackall (20:46)
Yeah,

and if I would have asked, I mean, she would have given me a place, but since my classroom was such a mess, I was like, I can't, and I should have.

Deb (20:55)
You didn't really have time.

Yeah, yeah, well, you also need to be able to feel like you can be heard and supported in that. So all part of it of like, we have to step up and ask for what we need. But if that environment is not supportive of it, it makes it all that harder.

Jamie Blackall (21:05)
Yeah.

Yeah,

now I would say something, but I think all of those situations that I went through made me stronger and now I would definitely speak up. But it's just at that time.

Deb (21:31)
We're already

under so much stress, do you want conflict too? I mean... Right? I'm just trying to survive here, right? I mean, you don't have any fight in you when you're just exhausted. Yeah.

Jamie Blackall (21:34)
Yeah, I already had enough conflict.

you

Yeah. And then I was

on a team with all these young girls that weren't even married. So it's like they didn't. Right. No clue. I know.

Deb (21:49)
They're just like, la dee da, which is not their fault, but it's like, it's still hard. Yeah,

yeah. So if you go back and prepare for your past self, what do you wish you had known before heading back to work postpartum?

Jamie Blackall (22:06)
You have a great handout and whenever I was creating it one day, I was like, man, this would have been helpful. It's your professionals, like your list of professionals.

I didn't know about any of them. I just thought, you go to a doctor. Okay. But you have like what they are and what they do, but then you can find your local ones in there and write it in. That would be good. I wish I knew more about laws and...

Deb (22:22)
Great.

Yeah.

Jamie Blackall (22:41)
researched that before. I think I was just in survival mode with my house and everything. I wish I would have knew about hormones because whenever I was, I had to go to three different doctors and had surgeries and miscellaneous to IVF. So I found this one guy that helped me get pregnant, but I had to take progesterone every single day and I had to get my progesterone monitored.

Deb (22:43)
Yeah.

Jamie Blackall (23:12)
So my body doesn't make it and it's called the happy hormone for a reason. And I'm like, oh, okay, I had to do that for both pregnancies. I didn't even make that connection that once. I was like, oh, well then I don't need it anymore. I didn't even think about my hormones being a wreck. But I'm like, if I didn't have it before and I had to supplement it heavily and then I'm postpartum, like I just wish I would have known to ask or go to, I knew nothing about holistic stuff that I was just.

Deb (23:17)
Right?

Jamie Blackall (23:41)
learning and that's kind of I went to a more natural-ish type doctor infertility doctor When they told me I needed IVF, but I just wouldn't wish her to know more about my hormones So then I could be prepared when I went back to work Laws and I wish I had more boundaries like not worked overtime And just had better boundaries and confidence in that like

Deb (23:43)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Jamie Blackall (24:11)
And I wish I would have held my baby more when I had the chance. I wish I would have had her in a little carrier. I was so busy unpacking the house, putting a classroom together, doing stuff with that. She was just, she was around me, but I just didn't hold her like I did with my first. And I could tell little different, like,

Deb (24:14)
Mmm.

Yeah.

with the toddler.

Yeah.

Jamie Blackall (24:41)
I feel like bonding, I feel like homeschooling has kind of helped that bond that I missed out on. But yeah, hold your baby.

Deb (24:46)
Right.

hold your baby while they

can and they won't be spoiled too. think sometimes we get a little worried about, well, I'm gonna have to sleep train later so I better not get in the habit of it now.

Jamie Blackall (24:52)
I know.

And that's what I was told and I was like, what? But that makes no sense because you're supposed to hold it.

Deb (25:05)
There's only one

postpartum, like there really is only one time that you get, but I can't say for parenting with my own kids is that it's never too late. It is never too late to get that bonding in wherever you are.

And so I want anybody listening to hear that if there are some regrets around that time of getting skin to skin or anything like that, I can say that we did a lot of healing with my own kids when I was noticing like connection attachment issues around seven years old with my son. And I leaned in, you know, and we can't ever rewind and go back. So there's always going to be some guilt and and sadness around it.

Jamie Blackall (25:47)
Thank

Deb (25:49)
But I can tell you that those relationships, there is always room for movement, regardless of how old they are. Which is so relieving because we can't change what already happened, but you can tell that those bonds are strong now.

Jamie Blackall (26:00)
Mm-hmm.

Deb (26:07)
Yeah, so I hope anybody hearing this is encouraged by that of like, just hold your baby. If you haven't had your baby yet, hold your baby. And if you didn't get that and you feel some regret, like it's never too late.

Jamie Blackall (26:14)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, because that's what I do. I've heard something about the hug. Like, usually you're the first one to let go your kid isn't, you know, and just hug until they let go. And sometimes I just don't be the first one to let go. And they'll just hug you for such a long time. And then what the hugs do to you and your brain and the oxytocin, like all the chemicals and stuff. It's like sometimes you just need

Deb (26:32)
Mm-hmm.

Forever.

Yeah. it's so good.

Jamie Blackall (26:52)
a hug and you think those babies that get those constant hugs from their mommies, you know, because they're being held and yeah.

Deb (26:59)
Yeah.

Yeah, it's wonderful. It's wonderful.

Yeah, and I feel like we in America just don't do enough personal contact in general. was a study I read the other day that physical touching how much that releases oxytocin in our brains that it's like we could be just such a better country if we touched

each other more and just hug each other and like you said like hold on until your kid lets go and sometimes you're so surprised on how much they need and sometimes I will just wrangle them like give me a hug and they'll try to give me the little ain't little squeeze and I'm like no no we need at least 30 seconds if not a whole minute which is a long time if you're just standing there

Jamie Blackall (27:34)
You won't hug me and you won't like it.

Right?

pervert, right?

Deb (27:47)
So it's really fun, yeah. So we just kind of talked about this, but a lot of parents wrestle with guilt and pressure and those unrealistic expectations. How did you navigate that? Start with your first and then talk about your second.

Jamie Blackall (28:04)
I didn't start...

feeling guilt.

what I didn't do until my mind shifted and I was around other homeschool moms, honestly, because, you know, they've got like four babies and holding them and they're not working and they're just being able to be a mom. And that's where it's like the guilt of not holding my daughter. And I see

Deb (28:15)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, just an idea that

it could have been different. Yeah.

Jamie Blackall (28:38)
Yeah, I mean,

I had the expensive carrier. just never... I know.

Deb (28:43)
Well, you didn't have time to put her in it, Janie. You

didn't have the time. You weren't sleeping. So you did the best you could.

Jamie Blackall (28:50)
So

that was the guilt. But you know what? I feel like where I'm at now with homeschooling them and being around them and being present is much better than I was.

Deb (29:14)
That actually kind of leads to, you know, not everybody has the privilege of having one parent stay home.

What were some of the sacrifices that you and your husband had to or maybe continue to sacrifice for you to be home to home school? And what did that look like? Because I think a lot of people feel like that's something they desire, but it feels out of reach. So what was that transition like for you?

Jamie Blackall (29:40)
It took me several years to kind of figure it out, but because my kids weren't in school yet, I paid for daycare. so public school, I was paid a certain amount and then I actually had this other job that got me out of the classroom, but I worked there for nine months. And so I was still getting good pay, most of that pay was going to daycare.

Deb (30:06)
Right.

Jamie Blackall (30:06)
in my car, those were the two major things. And at that time, I know it's more expensive now, I I was paying $1,800 a month for somebody else to watch my baby. And then my car payment, and then it was always in my brain, okay, what can I do? I was always looking for jobs, different jobs and teaching. I'm like, what can I do to make enough to put them in daycare and this.

Deb (30:10)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Totally.

Jamie Blackall (30:34)
in my car payment and a little extra, but then that's where it shifted is why do I have to pay somebody else to watch my kids? Like, cause that's, it's almost two grand right there. That's a lot of money. And then, so.

Deb (30:45)
Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's a lot.

Jamie Blackall (30:53)
My last year teaching, I taught at a private school. My kids were there and they needed to replace a teacher like in September. So I just stepped in and so I was in a private school setting my last year and I got a discount but I was still and I got a real big pay cut but I was still working to put my kids in the school. And then, you know, being in both public and private and then my oldest was going into kindergarten. I'm like,

Deb (31:10)
Okay, and somewhere else, yeah.

Jamie Blackall (31:23)
I think I want something different for my kids. And I just told my husband, mean, I can't sign the contract. And they kept coming to me, you're the last one that hasn't signed the contract. I'm like, I got sick to my stomach. couldn't do it. And that was like where I really felt that year was on my heart. Like, and I was finding out about homeschool and then education. It was just like, all these things were changing for me. And I was like,

And I never ever wanted to homeschool. As a teacher, I thought those people were crazy. And yeah, and now I'm exactly one of them.

Deb (31:55)
Crazy.

Well, you realize that it's not what people usually perceive it as.

is how I perceived it, because we did the same thing when my son was in first grade. And I just kept thinking, this is so hard. Why is this so hard for him? And he was gone for so long during the day. He'd come home exhausted and cranky and so overstimulated and not eating enough. And all things that now we know are related to ADHD.

Jamie Blackall (32:06)
Right.

Deb (32:31)
I was like, what would it really look like, you know, if we were at home and the reality of talking to other homeschool moms, I was like, doing school for two hours a day and not all at once, right? But we're integrating play dates and all kinds of stuff. And it was just like, my gosh, this is not what I thought it was going to be like. We don't have to sit at a table for six or seven hours. Exact same education.

Jamie Blackall (32:56)
Yeah.

Deb (32:58)
or better than what they're getting at a public school. Yeah, that was a huge shift for me too.

Jamie Blackall (33:05)
Yeah, like I

had no idea what he would even look like because I had never even entertained it. I was just like, I can't go and my kids can't do this either because at the private school is more of a sit down, shut up, be quiet, be obedient. And I was the teacher that needed to enforce that. And I didn't like having to be that way. And then my four year old was always at a different table by himself. Like he was at, he's advanced. He was reading and the other kids are still learning. Like, and so of course he was

Deb (33:18)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, you're like you're a child.

Jamie Blackall (33:34)
getting in trouble.

so whenever I told my husband that I can't sign the contract, I said, I'm not going back. It was like to the point. Well, at first, he did not say nice things about me saying I can't go back.

Deb (33:39)
Yeah. Yeah.

you have been thinking about it for a long time, but I'm sure that maybe you've talked about it here and there, but it wasn't a very serious conversation until you just hit your limit.

Jamie Blackall (33:52)
Yeah.

It was like I was

distraught. And honestly, it took years for me to get to the place where I just kept doing it. I'm like, I can't do this anymore. And he was not very receptive. But he's come around. He has come around and he loves it. My son is turkey hunting with him right now and they just sent me this huge. Yes. And he's so ahead. He only has like 10 lessons left. So he's so ahead. We don't have to worry about like.

Deb (34:04)
Yeah.

Well, but I think...

during the middle of the week. So cool. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Jamie Blackall (34:24)
Other times he would do school with him when he was out there in the winter. But I'm like, no, you can go hunting and we'll still finish before April. So that's what great about it. Since my husband's a firefighter, he's home during the day. so we get just more family time, whereas I was always the one missing out because...

Deb (34:29)
You just have a break. Yeah. Totally. We're good.

Jamie Blackall (34:50)
on the days he was home, could pick the kids up at three and he could go do fun stuff and I would still get home at six and you know, and I wouldn't.

Deb (34:57)
Yeah. Well, and think about

how sad that is too, is that they would go to daycare and your husband is home. Like you were paying for it. So it's like keep the routine and it's better for kids to keep on a routine and have that structure. But it's like heartbreaking that, you know, I'm sure several times a week he's at home. He could totally have the kids and spend time with them. to think.

Jamie Blackall (35:03)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

he

just bugs us in the middle of our lessons. When are you gonna get done? Because I want to go fishing or I'm gonna go on a bike ride. Yeah, he wants to go play. And I'm like, we gotta get this done. Yeah.

Deb (35:26)
Yeah, we have school.

But what a cool way to show your kids that life doesn't always look like a nine to five. Because your husband doesn't work nine to five and it's a random schedule and it works really well for all your family time.

Jamie Blackall (35:37)
Yes.

No.

And I work, I do my virtual assistant stuff before everybody wakes up and then do the breakfast and homeschool and then I'll do more virtual assistant or do my travel stuff at night. So then I break it up or I'll go to the library, but he can take them to go do something fun. And I'll just go to the library one afternoon. So it's like you just have that flexibility. Whereas before I had none and we had no

Deb (36:03)
Yeah.

Yeah, when do you go to doctor's

do you go to doctor's appointments and like if your kids are sick and it's just, yeah, it's a lot to manage.

Jamie Blackall (36:16)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Deb (36:20)
So let's talk about that transition out of work and into virtual assisting. So when you made that transition out of working at school, and I'm sure that there was lots of budget conversations of like, is this actually gonna work? And how did you find out about virtual assisting?

Jamie Blackall (36:39)
I found the agency on LinkedIn And so I just applied because I knew, like before I was a teacher, I had other jobs like in the office and then like I had skills, like I'm not dumb. I'm like, I I can.

Deb (36:56)
Totally. Well, and being

a teacher too, it's not like you're just teaching in front of class. You're making handouts and you're doing all kinds of stuff on the computer, for sure.

Jamie Blackall (37:04)
Yeah, managing a lot of stuff.

So I was just looking for part-time. When I first started homeschooling, I was like, oh, I could work 20 hours. I'm like, no, I can't do that.

Deb (37:18)
Yeah, well

you're already homeschooling and then you're home with your kids all the time.

Jamie Blackall (37:22)
Well, if

your kids were older, I think, and more independent, but I started when they were four and five. So now they just know that I work in the morning. But I was already used to having to work before school, work after. I was already used to doing that extra work, because teachers always had to bring stuff home.

So I was already used to doing that in weird times. So, and I can't ever sleep in any way. like, so I work before everybody wakes up and then I get to be mom. So.

Deb (37:56)
Right.

Yeah.

And when it came down to it salary wise, are you ahead with what you're doing now versus, with all the childcare and stuff that was coming out that you could cut expenses? Cause you're obviously making less money. You know, you're working very part-time, 30 hours a month versus 40 a week or plus.

Jamie Blackall (38:19)
Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yeah, and then my travel advisor thing, I only get paid like when they travel. I mean, it's more like a bonus here and there. And then a new business getting new clients and stuff like that. We're making it work. Luckily, when we had two incomes, we saved a lot. So if anything happens, we're okay.

Deb (38:49)
Yeah.

Jamie Blackall (38:51)
And then my husband, I wanted him to get a promotion. Like, why wouldn't he ever try to get a promotion? But whenever I said, hey, quit my job, I'm homeschooling, that lit a fire. he studied, he studied so hard and he got the highest score on the test. I was very proud of him. So he got a promotion and then they gave like a little raise every time. So.

Deb (38:58)
Right.

He's like, uh-oh.

Yay!

Jamie Blackall (39:16)
And he now works overtime, whereas before he doesn't. So he'll work a couple of overtime shifts here and there to kind of supplement.

Deb (39:24)
I just bridge the gap.

Jamie Blackall (39:27)
But it is a little different because before we could just spend money and it didn't matter Like right now I keep going. Okay. Oh, we keep I get we go to Mexico We can go to Dominican Republic we can go here and he shuts me down all the time. I'm like, but look at this good deal So the beat

Deb (39:33)
Over.

Right.

Who sent those over to me,

Just kidding.

Jamie Blackall (39:52)
The sand in my toes doesn't happen as much as I would like. So now we get to go camping. Like we're going in a couple weeks and that's only $17 a day.

So, eh, and no showers for five days. That's a little different than all inclusive, but yeah. Right, so we just make different choices and once my mind shifted when, before I had kids, you know, we're just in a consumer society, you know, buy this and it's so easy to click, click, click on your phone and you're

Deb (40:02)
no.

Right, little different. Sacrifices we make.

Yeah, this is gonna make your

life so much easier and better. And you're like.

Jamie Blackall (40:31)
It's

just more shit to clean up at your house. so once my mind shifted, it doesn't matter if I have the newest, I used to buy a new purse every year. like, I don't care. I just go to TJ Maxx and get one every once in a while. It's for like 50 bucks. So I just make different choices. My kid's clothes are probably from Walmart and Target. I don't buy fancy stuff because they're gonna outgrow it soon.

Deb (40:34)
Yeah.

Right,

and they're gonna put mud on it and yeah.

Jamie Blackall (41:01)
We're staying at, I'll rip it, you So.

Deb (41:06)
And also, you know, the thing I love to put in perspective too is that when your kids are little, it is such a short time. Like you feel like it's going to be like this forever. Whereas like you're making ends meet or you're like, I really wish I could go on these fancy vacations for now. Right. It will be just for now in this time when they're little and you're spending more time with them and like the camping memories and like those are all things that you're building with them and they're not going to remember whether it was camping or an all inclusive.

We will remember, right? Because we're like, I was a little more uncomfortable with the camping situation.

Jamie Blackall (41:37)
yeah. Right.

And

only get to pack one suitcase for the encloses instead of like a truck and a trailer full. But that's okay. My husband and I used to do all that like before we had kids. So now we get to share that with them.

Deb (41:53)
Exactly,

and those are the memories that they're going to remember forever. And then once they get older and you're going to have more time, you can work more if you want to, you know? And that's kind of the season of life that we're finally moving into. And it's just, it's so nice to be out of the day-to-day drudery and seeing the other side of it and giving some hope to, like, it won't always be like that.

Jamie Blackall (41:57)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, one other thing we do to save money, which is a skill that I'm learning a lot of people, like adults, I don't know if they have, is cooking. Well, we cook everything, so yeah, we very rarely go out to eat. I think we have sticker shock every time we do, and we're pretty good cooks. I mean, my husband makes a mean steak, and...

Deb (42:30)
Yeah. Nowadays.

Name?

Jamie Blackall (42:48)
We, yeah.

Deb (42:50)
You

know how much that would cost if you went out? It would be like $50 to $60 for one meal.

Jamie Blackall (42:55)
Yeah, well, and he hunts, so we have all that like, yeah, so, and my kid's favorite dinner is like backstrap salad. So I'm like, that's so weird. Deer backstrap. It's like steak. Yeah. So, I mean, yeah. So, so we cook and that saves, that saves a lot of money because we don't door dash, we don't.

Deb (42:59)
Fresh meat, yeah.

What is that? what is that?

That sounds awesome.

I don't

Yeah. Well, and when you think back to like when you were so stressed out, sometimes you don't even have the energy to cook. so they look to convenience foods, even at the grocery store, are like double the price of what it would cost a little meal prep. But the idea of introducing like to a postpartum mom who's stressed out and going back to work well just meal prep. And you're like, I'm not sleeping. What do you mean? What do you mean? Just meal prep.

Jamie Blackall (43:24)
We don't do any of that.

Yeah.

Okay, yeah, so

one thing, okay, get some friends, like don't do this alone. I was alone and now that I'm in the homeschool community, like the moms, do meal trains for each other. And so I got to drop that off and bless somebody else because I think whenever I was posted,

Deb (43:59)
Yeah.

You know how hard it is.

Jamie Blackall (44:13)
Postpartum, one person brought me like a chicken nugget tray from Chick-fil-A and it was like the best thing ever because I didn't have to think about dinner. So postpartum, yeah, like with Waylon, I went to the breastfeeding, things with Josie. I just thought I had so much stuff to take care of with my house. I thought I didn't have enough time to do it and I wish I would have, you know? But find a community, find like,

Deb (44:35)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jamie Blackall (44:41)
church, homeschool, There's playdate groups. That's how I got involved.

Deb (44:45)
Yeah, like lactation groups.

could be things at WIC. There could be more like things around your community that you don't even know about family centers. Like there's a lot of dropping groups. Maybe lounges. Yeah.

Jamie Blackall (44:51)
Yeah.

Baby lounges.

Deb (45:01)
so many different things, but it's hard, it's not advertised very well because this is just a small community of postpartum moms for a short period of time. So you actually have to go and seek these communities out and sometimes it's a little weird to do that when you're pregnant, but do it, do it anyways.

Jamie Blackall (45:06)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah, because I wish I would have had more support. see what these young girls have. And I'm like, man, they're lucky that they just have so many friends that have kids and will help each other out with a drop of a hat.

Deb (45:37)
Yeah, yeah, it's

so important and it makes such a big difference. So for those listening, because I want to be mindful of our time, we're about at an hour here and no, it's good. This is all really, really good stuff. For anybody listening who's preparing to go back to work or maybe pregnant and just thinking ahead like, wow, this sounds really, really hard and maybe be a little bit triggered. What would you? Yeah, well.

Jamie Blackall (45:42)
Yeah.

Well, sorry.

Sorry.

My story is unique, I feel like.

Deb (46:08)
the thing is is that I think if we don't talk about this that's where we continue this trauma for more and more families and so there are things that we can do differently going forward and that's exactly what I want to hear from you like do you have any advice for someone looking at going back to work and

Jamie Blackall (46:16)
Yeah.

Deb (46:31)
It can be practical tips, can be like, bring your pump bag or whatever, or it could be like a bigger generalized advice for families.

Jamie Blackall (46:40)
Don't forget to take care of yourself.

Deb (46:43)
Period. Drop the mic. Bam.

Jamie Blackall (46:47)
Because you know what you, I saw some quote before I quit teaching, you can be replaced at work, you cannot be replaced at home. And these kids only have one mommy. If you're not okay. Right.

Deb (47:02)
percent.

Yeah.

They're not going to be okay.

Well, you don't have anything to give. If you can't take care of yourself because you're an adult, no one's going to do it for you. But if you don't take care of yourself and set those boundaries and set yourself up for success and surround yourself with people who support you, you have nothing to give that baby. Yeah, yeah. So look, check your boundaries, right?

Jamie Blackall (47:13)
No!

Yes.

Yes.

Deb (47:35)
Make sure that all your things align for what really is important to you. It's totally okay to go back to work if it was working for you. But also evaluate what that work situation is. Is it supportive? Is it not? Yeah.

Jamie Blackall (47:43)
Yes.

And even if you do, work doesn't always have to be a nine to five. And if you are anxious, there are other ways to make money out there.

Deb (47:52)
care.

especially with the internet, right? Like, such a different time where back when our parents were in jobs, they would get a job and they would do that job until they retire. And it's not like that anymore. There's so many opportunities and so many different ways to look at it. mean, virtual assisting is a great job for a mom.

Jamie Blackall (48:07)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes.

Deb (48:24)
to integrate during the day of like just a few hours here and there. And it's a huge help for business owners like me for sure. Huge help. mean, I don't think I got half of the stuff done that we've gotten done in the last year. Like it is amazing how much it takes the energy off of my shoulders. Yeah.

Jamie Blackall (48:32)
I'm

You

Well,

that's what I wanted. I wanted to find somebody to serve and help to make their business run smoother. And yeah. And then I found you in Washington.

Deb (48:55)
It's been so...

I know, and that's the great thing about virtual assisting too, is like, I'm in Washington, you're in Texas, and it works fine because you can do all this stuff online. We meet once a week and it's great. Now this is turning into an advertisement for virtual assisting, but... So what would you say to a parent who is feeling overwhelmed

Jamie Blackall (49:06)
Yeah.

I'm

Deb (49:24)
under supported or just unsure of how they're going to make it all work.

Jamie Blackall (49:28)
I don't even know if I have. Find somebody that you trust that's probably not a medical professional. I'm just kidding. I don't count you as that system. I think you are different.

Deb (49:39)
Well, I think...

Right.

Well, I think it can be helpful to go to a doctor, but I also think it's not end all be all, right? It's not, you know, when you go to a doctor, what you're going to get, which is what they're there for, is a help for that symptom. And if you're going for depression, the way they can help for that symptom is medication. And that's okay if that's really needed, but that's not the beginning or the end of that. It's, yeah.

Jamie Blackall (49:50)
Well.

Yes.

That shouldn't be the first response. Get some friends,

get some community, get that personal contact because the postpartum time is very lonely. And if you're by yourself, it will be very hard to navigate it by yourself, but you need to find some type of support group. And you know what? Postpartum doesn't last forever. So that is something that is great. Even if it's difficult.

Deb (50:23)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jamie Blackall (50:41)
which I don't wish that, you know, what I went through like with anybody, but you grow, like you grow from it. And I feel like I've learned so much just through that time that I went through and I'm a completely different person, you know.

Deb (51:01)
Right.

And I

think having that expectation, understanding that you're going through a huge transition, a huge transformation of who you are, and it's okay to not know what that looks like. And it's okay to go through it. But then also understanding like, I don't want to be a different person, but you're going to be something different, just improved and better of like, I'm a parent now. And also, I'm still the person. I'm still bringing all of those experiences with me that I had before becoming a parent.

Jamie Blackall (51:14)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Deb (51:32)
I'm just a richer, more rounded, different person now. And that's not something to be scared of.

Jamie Blackall (51:37)
Yeah.

Yeah,

having somebody that's more like a holistic, more natural mindset. Well, in having a doula from the beginning, I used to think people that got doulas were, yeah. And now, yeah, where I'm at. I love it when you're here. Woo woo, yeah, I'll take all the woo woo. But just.

Deb (51:53)
Hippies. They're all hippies. Now woo woo.

Yeah. Well, I think that's

a good point is that there are some really, you know, very woo woo doulas out there and that's great for those people, but there's also very practical and like.

Jamie Blackall (52:10)
Yeah.

Deb (52:11)
Conventional minded doulas as well and so we're just looking at your whole self of like how do we support your whole self with the referrals that we can give you and it's not just looking at if you are having postpartum mood disorders We're not just being like go to your doctor and get some medicine like we're gonna be like what's actually happening like is there stuff that we can talk about and decompress and you know get through any birth your birth story or Gosh, yeah, that's pretty normal. just hearing someone tell you that your breastfeeding

Jamie Blackall (52:21)
Yeah.

Right.

Deb (52:41)
struggles are normal, 50 % of the problem. Like it helps with most of it being like, I'm not just doing it wrong. I'm not just wrong doing this. It helps so much.

Jamie Blackall (52:42)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

I think doing your blogs and your podcasts have helped me kind of heal because it's like, and sometimes they touch me, but I'm just like, this is what moms need. They need to know this kind of information and be informed. And that's why I like to support you because you were doing that for the moms out there in every stage that they're in and you're a way to give them that support where.

Deb (53:22)
It might not be local, No matter where they are, there might not be a local doula near you. And that's definitely my biggest goal of having you help me.

Jamie Blackall (53:22)
I had was a cute Pinterest board.

Yeah.

Okay.

And one other thing, don't make permanent birth control advice when you're postpartum. Because then you'll want that third baby and you won't be able to have it.

Deb (53:40)
Right. Yeah.

Jamie Blackall (53:47)
So yeah, so make sure that you don't make any rushed decisions. Because once things calm down, things could change. Yeah.

Deb (53:47)
Yeah.

Yeah. Well, it might feel differently. Well, and also

with all of this things that you're coming to Epiphany about of like many years later of like, wow, It could be so different if I had done these things differently. And some people choose to have a child way later of like, I never thought I would have another baby, but here we are like five or six, 10 years later and I want to do over. And so.

Jamie Blackall (54:02)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Deb (54:20)
But that's a really good point of like, let's make not permanent decisions while we're in crisis. Well, I think this is a great place to wrap up. I want to thank you so much for coming and talking

Jamie Blackall (54:26)
Yes.

Deb (54:36)
So openly about such a tough time in your life, I hope that people listening will have lots of things to think about and consider and learn from your experience and help them through that. And I really thank you for being vulnerable and sharing that with us today.

Jamie Blackall (54:52)
Well, thank you for inviting me on your doula talk.

Deb (54:55)
Yeah, you're welcome. You can come back anytime because you're going to be helping me process this podcast and put it out there.

well, thanks again and I hope you have a good day. Bye.

Jamie Blackall (55:08)
All right, thanks Deb. Bye.

Deb (55:13)
Whew, that was a conversation that makes you want to hug your past self, isn't it? Jamie brought so much honesty to the mic from the hidden realities of teaching postpartum to making the leap into virtual work to redefining what success even looks like after having kids. Here are some of the key takeaways from today's episode. You're allowed to change.

whether it's your heart, your priorities, your whole dang career. The return to work isn't one size fits all and there's no shame in finding what actually works for you. Guilt and pressure, totally normal,

but don't let them drive the support can look like flexible work, a partner who steps up or giving yourself grace to not do it all. If you're in the season of transition, take a deep breath. You are not in this alone.

And hey, if you want more support as you figure this out, check the links in the show notes for resources, freebies, and ways to work with me directly. You deserve support that meets you where you Until next time, keep showing up with compassion for your baby and most importantly, yourself.