Moving to Spain After 30, House Swapping, and the Work Visa for The Netherlands (Holland) with Cepee Tabibian, Founder of She Hit Refresh | EP 6

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Ever wondered if it's too late to start a new life abroad, or if you're "too established" to make such a dramatic change?

Ryan sits down with Cepee Tabibian, founder of She Hit Refresh, who took the leap from Houston to Madrid at age 35. Recently featured in USA Today, Cepee shares how her first trip to the Netherlands at 17 sparked a lifelong dream that took almost two decades to realize.

Now, she helps women over 30 navigate their own paths to living abroad. Learn practical tips for making an international move more affordable, including Cepee's creative approach to using home exchanges that has allowed her to stay in 8-10 countries across 40 different homes.

Chapters:
06:17 - Helping women 30+ relocate abroad
10:00 - Dutch visa allows freelancers to work there
12:36 - Cepee’s First international trip
16:53 - Biggest hurdle for digital nomads
22:09 - Transitioned to digital nomad lifestyle recently

She breaks down how she manages her work-life balance while traveling, and shares real insights about maintaining relationships with family back home. You'll also discover an underrated French city that offers a more authentic European experience than the usual tourist destinations.

Whether you're considering a permanent move abroad or testing the waters of digital nomad life, this episode offers genuine strategies from someone who's been there.

Listen and learn honest insights about building a sustainable life abroad.

Connect with Cepee: https://shehitrefresh.com/

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DISCLAIMER:
Listening to stories of beachside zoom calls, mountainside work views, and island-hopping entrepreneurs may cause severe wanderlust and an irresistible urge to turn your laptop into a passport to freedom. Side effects include daydreaming about tropical coworking spaces, working with Ryan to learn how you can start working and traveling and buying a one-way ticket to Bali. Get ready to start living your dream life today!

Chapters

• 6:17 Helping women 30+ relocate abroad
• 10:00 Dutch visa allows freelancers to work there
• 12:36 Cepee’s First international trip
• 16:53 Biggest hurdle for digital nomads
• 22:09 Transitioned to digital nomad lifestyle recently

Transcript

Ryan Mellon [00:00:00]:
You ever dreamed of living and starting a new life abroad, but worry you may be too old to make such a big change? Today, I sit down with Cepee Tabibian, founder of She Hit Refresh. After moving from Texas to Spain at age 35, Cepee has spent the last 7 years empowering women to leap into international living. She's been featured in Forbes, The New York Times, and most recently USA Today. We explore affordable ways to live abroad, including a little known visa that lets Americans easily move to the Netherlands and how to swap houses to live rent free while traveling the globe. Whether you're thinking about working remotely from another country or dreaming of a permanent move overseas, you'll learn practical steps to make it happen. Happen. Stay tuned until the end where Sebby reveals an underrated European city that could be perfect for both digital nomads and expats looking for an authentic experience away from the tourist crowds. Hi.

Ryan Mellon [00:01:01]:
I'm Ryan Mellon, and welcome to Digital Nomad Nation. 7 years ago, I was trapped in 2 dead end jobs. Now I'm a digital nomad and serial entrepreneur who has achieved financial freedom. So now it's your turn. I will bring you real, unfiltered stories from people just like you. We've broken free from the 9 to 5 to create extraordinary lives. You'll hear about the thrill of waking up to sunrises in Medellin to watching sunsets in Bali and the challenges of building a business or working remotely from the road. We'll explore the joy of forming connections across cultures and the occasional pitfalls of constant travel.

Ryan Mellon [00:01:39]:
Get ready for stories that will ignite your imagination and practical tips to fuel your own adventure. The life you've always dreamed of is just one bold decision away. Your path to a life less ordinary starts now. Welcome, CEPI. How are you today?

Cepee Tabibian [00:02:00]:
Hi, Ryan. Thank you so much for having me on. I'm doing really well. I have some beautiful views right now on the other side of this camera and feeling good.

Ryan Mellon [00:02:10]:
So where are you from and where are you now?

Cepee Tabibian [00:02:13]:
Yes. So I'm originally from Houston, Texas. That's where I spent most of my life. Lived in Austin for a little bit, but at the moment, I'm in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico.

Ryan Mellon [00:02:24]:
Oh, awesome. So tell us about the views.

Cepee Tabibian [00:02:28]:
Yeah. So I'm at I do home swapping, which I'm happy to talk about if that makes sense later, but I am in a home swap, so I'm in somebody's home, and I have just beautiful palm trees in front of me. I don't have the sea view, but I have the old town, and it's just relaxing. And Puerto Vallarta, I didn't know this, is very much a party town, so it's like party vibes, and it's, only 2:30 PM. So I'm enjoying that. Okay.

Ryan Mellon [00:02:51]:
Awesome. And then that's on the West Coast of Mexico?

Cepee Tabibian [00:02:54]:
Yes. It is. Exactly. On the West Coast.

Ryan Mellon [00:02:57]:
I've been to Mexico about 15 times, and I haven't made it much out of, like, Mexico City, Yucatan Peninsula, Oaxaca. But, yeah, I've gotta make it over there sometime.

Cepee Tabibian [00:03:07]:
Yeah. I think it's it's my first time too on the West Coast of Mexico.

Ryan Mellon [00:03:10]:
Awesome. Well, tell us about the home swap. Is there a certain site that you use, and how does that work?

Cepee Tabibian [00:03:17]:
Yes. I love talking about house swapping. So happy to talk about how people can can do this. So house swapping, because a lot of you ask, like, what is that? Is it like the movie, The Holiday? Yes. Literally that where you're swapping homes with with someone, and I use a platform called the Home Exchange. So I have been on the platform for about two and a half years and have done about 40 swaps in maybe 8 to 10 different countries. So I'm I'm an avid house swapper. And I would say it's the main way that I travel now because, you know, I can stay longer somewhere and not pay for accommodation.

Cepee Tabibian [00:03:52]:
So which comes in handy when you pay rent or own a home. So I have a home base in Spain and, you know, I pay towards that monthly. So I don't really wanna be paying twice when I'm not home travel.

Ryan Mellon [00:04:05]:
That makes sense. So is it in house swap all at the same time? Does it always work like that where you are at their place and they're at your place?

Cepee Tabibian [00:04:14]:
Good question. That is not the case, actually. So that is probably the most common and popular is you find someone on the platform and you swap homes at the same exact time. That's called a simultaneous swap. But there's also non simultaneous, and that's when you swap but at different times. So maybe someone comes to my house in April, and I go to theirs in November. A lot of people who maybe have a second home do this, or if you're traveling and you're paying for that vacation and your house is vacant, then someone would come. But I wanna talk about the 3rd because that's my most favorite, and that's the one that I've done the most this year, and that is swapping with points.

Cepee Tabibian [00:04:51]:
So on a platform like HomeExchange, you can earn points, and it's kinda like a currency. So we've earned a lot of points over the last 2 years. And this year, basically, all my swaps have been done by paying people with points, and those people do not come to my house.

Ryan Mellon [00:05:07]:
Okay. So when you allow people to come to your house or you're traveling wherever, you earn points, and then so you can exchange them for free stays somewhere else in the world.

Cepee Tabibian [00:05:19]:
Exactly. That's how it works. So, yeah, I think this year I've been to to Germany, France, Italy, or Mexico, the US, Spain, a lot of countries with the home exchange.

Ryan Mellon [00:05:31]:
Okay. So you, you say we, so are you traveling solo or are you traveling with someone else?

Cepee Tabibian [00:05:38]:
Yeah. So I have a partner who is from Spain. And luckily, they have a remote job, so we travel together and take our work with us.

Ryan Mellon [00:05:48]:
That's awesome. I love that. So recently, I just saw yesterday that you had an article in USA Today, which is huge. So congratulations on that.

Cepee Tabibian [00:05:59]:
Oh my gosh. Thank you. I'm still, yeah, on a high from from that media feature. That's been really great.

Ryan Mellon [00:06:04]:
I can imagine that it's brought a lot of interest into what you do. So if you wanna talk a little bit about maybe the article or what you do for work, that will be awesome.

Cepee Tabibian [00:06:17]:
Yes. Yeah. So I'll talk about what I do first and then I'll talk about the article. So, so I help women aged 30 and over transform their lives by moving abroad. I have a company called she hit refresh and, I've been running it for 7 years now. And really, it's spawned from my own experience of moving from the US to Spain when I was 35 years young, and really feeling like an only like it was a crazy idea, like I was too old because of the a lot of the information out there was for people taking a gap year, so people in their twenties, or maybe retirees who were in a different stage of life and didn't have those responsibilities that I had, you know, as someone who had a career, had a mortgage, you know, had some tethers they had to work through. So she hit refresh, serves women who are in a similar situation, and we do that in many different ways. The the USA Today article was incredible.

Cepee Tabibian [00:07:12]:
We've had some media features over the years. We've been very fortunate to be in Forbes and the New York Times and Business Insider, but USA Today was a piece I have been chasing or a publication I've been chasing for a few years. And so that piece, we're really excited that it went live. That piece specifically was about why American women feel safer leaving living abroad than they do in the US. And that article dropped Wednesday morning after the results of the election and has gone viral ever since. It really has reached, far and wide beyond our our expectation.

Ryan Mellon [00:07:46]:
Yeah. It was a very well written article, and I noticed that it it was one of your clients. Right? That they were talking about. Was it Dee? Could you tell us a little bit about her story and how she how you helped her to get where she is today?

Cepee Tabibian [00:08:01]:
Yes. Yeah. I love I'm really happy with the article and they did, feature a few of our clients. One of them is Dee or Denise, who literally just moved abroad last week. So I know this is a podcast for digital nomads, and I think some digital nomads are also dipping their toes and maybe the moving abroad space. I'm kind of a, I have a home base, but I spend part of my year nomadic, but de in particular wanted to move to the Netherlands. Well, she wanted to move abroad, had the dream at 18, finally executed on it at 50 in her fifties. So she's had this dream for many decades.

Cepee Tabibian [00:08:34]:
She actually joined a master class that I run called the move abroad after 30 master class. I run that periodically. It's a 4 day training that gives you the the overview of what you need to do to move abroad. She took that in June, and she moved abroad last week, was just a few months later. So she picked the Netherlands because they have a a fairly easy visa to qualify for for Americans, but and is now living her her new life abroad. And I think like most of us who make the move or maybe even transition to digital nomadism, our biggest regret is just not doing it sooner. Right?

Ryan Mellon [00:09:07]:
I agree a 100% with you. So that's very impressive from June and, you know, for our listeners, we're recording in November of 2024. So not a very long time, 5, 6 months. It's very quick for her to be able to get that. I guess she applied for a specific visa. Could you tell us about that visa that the Netherlands has?

Cepee Tabibian [00:09:29]:
Yes. I'd love to. Yeah. I mean, it is really quick. I would say for most people, if you're looking to make a permanent move abroad, you probably need a 6 to 12 month runway. But, of course, there's always outliers like Denise who did it, you know, very quickly because she really had the plan was a go getter and worked really hard and making this happen. And maybe didn't have the same obstacles as someone else. So she actually wanted to move to Italy and get it through her Italian ancestry, but that route was going to take just a few years.

Cepee Tabibian [00:10:00]:
And so in my master class, she learned about the daft visa, the Dutch American friendship treaty, which is a special visa for American citizens who want to move to the Netherlands, and really it's for freelancers, solopreneurs, or anyone who is self employed. So this is a great option for a digital nomad who's maybe looking to spend, you know, more than the Schengen allowance in, in Europe. It's pretty easy to qualify for. You need to register a business there, and it does not have to be an existing business, so if you wanna start a business, if you're a freelancer, you're transitioning into freelancing, you could start your freelance business there, and you just have to deposit €4,500 in a Dutch bank account and just kinda leave that there. You don't lose it, but you can't touch it for the, duration that you're there on the visa.

Ryan Mellon [00:10:49]:
Okay. Alright. Well, yeah, that doesn't seem like a huge bar to to be able to hop over for, most folks. That's awesome. And when I read the article, that was the first I've heard about that visa. I just finally got my 1st digital nomad visa for Bali for Indonesia. Just came in last week, which is the e 33g1 year remote worker visa. So I'm super excited about that to spend a little bit more time in a country than I normally do.

Ryan Mellon [00:11:17]:
In the past, I've hopped around on, you know, being a digital nomad on tourist visas for years. But it's it's nice to have a little bit more dedicated time and maybe learn more about the country you're in. So, specifically, with the DAP visa, is there any is there any way to to leverage that visa into like citizenship later?

Cepee Tabibian [00:11:42]:
Yeah. I know a lot of people are interested in maybe getting that second passport, having that plan b. I got my citizenship in Spain. So I know that that is something that can be very beneficial with in the case of, the Netherlands. Yes. The DAFT visa, those years on the DAFT visa do count towards residency. So permanent residency, which you get in 5 years after living in the Netherlands, and you may be eligible at 10 years to apply for citizenship, but the Netherlands does not recognize dual citizenship with the US, so that is just something to be mindful of. Not all countries allow dual citizenship.

Cepee Tabibian [00:12:18]:
So if you're interested in the Netherlands, maybe talk to an immigration lawyer and see what your options are.

Ryan Mellon [00:12:23]:
Okay. I gotcha. Okay. Interesting. So take me back to the first time when you knew that this lifestyle of moving abroad was gonna be for you.

Cepee Tabibian [00:12:36]:
Yes. We gotta roll the clock back. I'm gonna show my age here, but I always talk about my age and the work that I do. So we're rolling it back to the nineties, 1997. What actually my first trip abroad was to the Netherlands. Speaking of the Netherlands, my first international trip, I was 17 and I begged my parents for my 17th birthday to send me to the Netherlands to visit my best friend that I had met in Houston who was Dutch, but had to move back home. And surprisingly, my very conservative parents who are immigrant parents from Iran and the and Colombia said yes, And, you know, even though I grew up in a multicultural household, I was still a little bit naive about the world. And so in my mind, the Netherlands was gonna be like America, but maybe they just speak Dutch.

Cepee Tabibian [00:13:18]:
But I got there, and it was obviously completely different, and that novel experience made me feel, like, so energized, so alive. You know, I had this childlike wonder, and it really was during that trip that I felt at the moment, like, oh, I'm gonna move to the Netherlands. I have to move here. That didn't pan out. I I actually ended up moving to Spain, but it was that trip that spawned that one love of travel, but to planted that seed that I would like to maybe live in a foreign country one day. And so from then on, just about every year, I would work for 9 months, save my money, and then send myself to a different country to travel and check that out during the summer and did that for, for many years until I found my, my place in the world.

Ryan Mellon [00:14:02]:
Awesome. What what made you fall in love with Spain?

Cepee Tabibian [00:14:06]:
Yeah. So on those trips of, you know, going abroad every summer, I landed in Spain. I came to Spain, when I was 21 to study Spanish for the summer. Although my mom is from Columbia, she didn't teach me Spanish, but she very much encouraged me to go to Spain, and study Spanish that summer, even though I didn't know anyone there. That was the first time I had traveled abroad without visiting a friend. And I landed in Madrid, which is an incredible city, and it was kind of love at first sight. It was a city, you know, I came from a very car driven culture city, Houston, Texas, as many us cities are, And I had never lived in a city where you could walk. And so it was the first time I was in a walkable city.

Cepee Tabibian [00:14:49]:
I was feeding off the energy of just passing people on the streets. I was 21 and Madrid really is a city that never sleeps. So the nightlife was something just that captivated me. Being out till 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 in the morning, it was just fun meeting people from all over the world, and then Spanish people themselves were just so warm and friendly, and that it was just, you know, I had my Goldilocks moment. I like to say it was just felt like the right place in the world for me. And really, yeah, Spain was my first love and and and still is, but it took a lot of time. That was 2001. It took a lot of time to actually figure out a plan to be able to to move there one day.

Ryan Mellon [00:15:30]:
I can imagine the the nightlife of Madrid is very different from Houston.

Cepee Tabibian [00:15:35]:
Yeah. Very much so.

Ryan Mellon [00:15:37]:
So you help women over 30. Are most your clientele, like, single women over 30? Are they married? Or do they have children as well? Just curious about the different types of women that you help.

Cepee Tabibian [00:15:49]:
Yeah. I would say, initially, it was mostly single child free women that, you know, I think that's because that's who I was when I started. She hit refresh, and so a lot of the messaging was about my experience, and those women resonated with it. But as we've grown over the years now, especially since the since the pandemic, I have seen a lot more women with children or families interested in our services, so that's been wonderful, as well as women who have partners, but maybe don't have children or don't want children. And so that's great as well. I like to tell people, you know, we serve women at all ages and stages of life. We have everyone, I would say from 35 to 65 is kinda where a lot of the the ages range. And, you know, everyone's kind of looking for the same thing, a better quality of life, and, you know, what we can provide them applicable to anyone at any age.

Ryan Mellon [00:16:41]:
And what would you say the kind of the most common challenges are that that you see with with people that are coming to you and they have the stream of moving abroad, but just really don't know where to start? Yeah.

Cepee Tabibian [00:16:53]:
I mean, that's the question I get. Where do I start? Which is what our master class answers. But I would say, you know, what is the biggest challenge? It's probably very similar to someone who wants to start their digital nomad journey. It's the work piece. I think a lot of people are ready to go, but they just don't know how to untether their lives. Either they have a 9 to 5 where they have to be in the office, or they have a remote job that they, you know, cannot take outside of a certain geographic. So that's the biggest challenge for a lot of our women or even people who have maybe a freelance or freelancers, but are struggling to find enough work to financially support themselves. So that's the biggest challenge and we've actually, you know, we're not a recruiting agency or anything like that, but for our members, we definitely have stepped up in that area of helping them find solutions to this obstacle in quite a few different ways because everybody is struggling with finding that work from anywhere job.

Ryan Mellon [00:17:48]:
Yeah. I agree. It it's it's challenging for folks that are looking for remote jobs, especially if their job isn't one that has a skill that is easily transferable to working remote. So I see that a lot. And even my background, I was working in the restaurant business and the warehouse business, which both were not able to just hop online and jump on a plane. So there are a lot of challenges there. So that's great that you're able to help people kinda figure that piece out and move through it. Because I think it is one of the hardest things and one of the most daunting things that, you know, people are maybe a little afraid of or it's it's really holding them back.

Cepee Tabibian [00:18:30]:
Exactly. And I think, you know, for me, I got my first remote job before this boom. I, my first remote job I got in 2017, I was already living in Spain, but getting that remote job really was a game changer in terms of how I live my life. And so I just know, yeah, how much we're get just getting that first remote job really can change what you think is possible for you. And I think, you know, for us, we do it, you know, as much as we can to help people unlock that so they can start this next chapter of their life. I will say to another challenge that people have is the visas. So for people who wanna stay somewhere longer than the 3 months or 6 months, depending on the country, or maybe wanna move somewhere permanently, you know, understanding what visa options they have, especially in Europe. We work with a lot of women who wanna move to Europe, which can seem like it's harder to move to.

Cepee Tabibian [00:19:22]:
But in actuality, there's actually a lot of visas that people don't know about, like the the DAF that I mentioned. There's tons of visas that people don't know about that could be a good fit for them.

Ryan Mellon [00:19:32]:
So I I feel like in a in the States, there's this conception that Europe is more expensive than the US. What in your experience, could you speak to that? Do you feel like it's more expensive? I mean, you're obviously there's lots of different countries. It's a big place. Do you find that it's the cost of living is similar or more expensive, less expensive?

Cepee Tabibian [00:19:56]:
Well, I guess it's relative. And if we're talking about the US and specifically, no. I don't I wouldn't say most of Europe is most of Europe is less expensive than, you know, if you're coming from a major city in the US. So that is something I think people maybe aren't aware of or don't actually, you know, know the numbers. So I always encourage people to crunch the numbers of a place that you're interested in going to to understand exactly what is the cost right now, because while it is less expensive in Europe, just like everywhere in the world, prices have gone up. Right? Rents have gone up, inflation. So I think people also may be working with the old data when they're like, oh, I wanna move to Portia. I heard it's so cheap.

Cepee Tabibian [00:20:37]:
And they're thinking of like 20 20 prices they may have read about, and things have changed a lot even in the last year. So it's really important to crunch those numbers, But I find that when people crunch those numbers, they're pleasantly surprised by, hey, it's still much less expensive than my cost of living in a medium to large sized city in in the US. And on top of that, it's just, you know, better quality of life that you get with that too.

Ryan Mellon [00:20:59]:
Yeah. Absolutely. I think it's more obtainable once you know the numbers. Do you have any resources for researching, like, specific places and cost of living?

Cepee Tabibian [00:21:09]:
Yeah. The ones that we use in our community or our members use are, I never know how to say it. Is it numbeo, numbeo, but that one dotconubio.com? And expatistan, that's another one to check out.

Ryan Mellon [00:21:21]:
Expatistan. Okay.

Cepee Tabibian [00:21:23]:
Yeah. Alright. Those are very helpful. Well, I

Ryan Mellon [00:21:24]:
have to put I'll definitely put both of those in the show notes. I have not checked out either of those, so I'm very interested interested to see that. I've also personally just used, like, chat gbt recently. Like, hey. What is the cost of living or cost of traveling this country? And it will just spit out, like, paragraphs of, you know, accommodations, groceries, transportation, and stuff like that. So, also, a very, really quick way to just get a rough estimate and be like, alright. Yeah. I can do this.

Ryan Mellon [00:21:58]:
So

Cepee Tabibian [00:21:59]:
Oh, that's a great tip. I never thought of doing that. Okay. Thank you for that idea.

Ryan Mellon [00:22:04]:
So when you're traveling, so you're you're in Spain. How many months out of the year would you say?

Cepee Tabibian [00:22:09]:
Yeah. I would say kind of my digital nomadism has really started in the last year or 2. So I I have been in Spain for 9 years, and most of that has been living in Spain and then, you know, coming to the US maybe for a month to visit family and then doing, you know, a travel here and there for a week or 2, but really living in Spain. But last year, I think last year started where I started taking longer stints away from the country. So last year, I was out of the country for maybe 3 months, and this year, I was counting on my I think I've been out of the country 5 or 6 months this year, which which is a lot for me. And it's been really nice to kinda be on the road and try out digital nomading myself this year.

Ryan Mellon [00:22:48]:
Sure. Sure. So what have been some of your challenges as far as, like, you know, I guess most of your clients are in the states. Right?

Cepee Tabibian [00:22:55]:
Mhmm. Yeah.

Ryan Mellon [00:22:57]:
So is it easier now that you're in Mexico time zone wise to work with your clients?

Cepee Tabibian [00:23:05]:
A little bit. I mean, you know, we work with our clients. I don't do 1 on 1 anymore. So I do the master class, and then I have a paid membership. And so actually, I do set around a lot of those hours around my schedule in Spain, but now that I'm in the US, I'm trying out my master class at a time that's more convenient for people in the US, and it's actually I'm try I'm seeing, right, like, the benefit of really adapting to people's times here. And so I'm thinking of maybe changing a few things when I go back. That may mean that I have to be on calls from midnight to 2 in the morning, you know, a few times a year. But if it benefits, my audience and helps my business, then I'm open.

Cepee Tabibian [00:23:44]:
Yeah. To doing that.

Ryan Mellon [00:23:46]:
And how about, how do you connect with the community when you're traveling?

Cepee Tabibian [00:23:51]:
So we have our Facebook group. That's actually where we started and it's still up and running. So it's, it's, she hit refresh. If anyone's interested, we did have a huge influx from the USA today and Forbes and a few other pieces that went live. So it'll be a while if you try to join. We've had about, I don't know, 4,000 people join in or request to join in the last few days, but the Facebook group is where that kind of runs itself. People who are in there, that's a free group talk to each other. I'm not in that community very much anymore because I have my paid community, which is a much smaller community of women who are are working on their move abroad, and we provide the support and resources.

Cepee Tabibian [00:24:28]:
I do meetups as I travel around the world for my refreshers, as we call them. And so but anyone's interested, they can join they can find us a meetup and see where where we're gathering next.

Ryan Mellon [00:24:39]:
Okay. So you do kinda some meetups. Do people fly in for those meetups, or is it people that are living in the areas generally?

Cepee Tabibian [00:24:48]:
Yeah. It's wild. I have had people fly into those meetups. I've done them in in Europe and I've done them in the US. So in Europe, when I did one in Madrid, once someone from Ireland flew in, which was wild. I just did one in San Francisco. We had a few people that didn't drive in, but they drove in a few hours from Sacramento and Santa Cruz. So people do come from far to come meet in person because, you know, the I I love our online communities and they do provide so much value, but it's a very different experience to meet like minded people in person.

Cepee Tabibian [00:25:21]:
And so it's so fun to have our events that where we can meet each other. And a lot of these people, we I've known them virtually for many years. And so to finally get to meet them in person, it's really a treat.

Ryan Mellon [00:25:32]:
Yeah. That's awesome. I love that. So tell me maybe what's one underrated place in your opinion. I know you've been to a lot of places, but is there anything, any place that sticks out to you?

Cepee Tabibian [00:25:44]:
Yes. I think Marseille France that is under the radar for a lot of people. Have you been to Marseille?

Ryan Mellon [00:25:54]:
I have not. I've only been to Paris via the airport, which doesn't count. So tell, tell us about Marseille. You said,

Cepee Tabibian [00:26:04]:
Yes. Marseille, I think in America might we maybe say Marseille. So generally, when I mentioned this to a French person how much I love Marseille, they kind of make a frown face to me. So it is not a glitzy, glamorous city. It's not Paris. It's not nice. If you have that in mind, that's not Marseille. Marseille is very much like a working class city.

Cepee Tabibian [00:26:24]:
It's on it's a port city, and it's a gritty city. And these are things that I love about it because it gives the city so much character. I've been there maybe 3 or 4 times now, and honestly, it's still like a contender for a place I could live in Europe if I if I left Spain. You know, it's it's beautiful. I think it's a beautiful city. The architecture is beautiful. It has a very big North African population, which I love, which gives it, you know, even more character and uniqueness and a lot of great food there also because of the immigrants that are there, and it's just different. I think it's a different experience than what a lot of people expect France to be.

Cepee Tabibian [00:27:00]:
And so it's a city that I find myself, I keep going back to because I find it very fascinating. Yeah. And just a place that I would recommend for people who maybe wanna go somewhere that everyone isn't going to.

Ryan Mellon [00:27:14]:
Okay. All right. Yeah. I'll definitely put that on the list. Sounds like a very cool spot. So do you have family back in the state still?

Cepee Tabibian [00:27:21]:
I do. Yeah, I do. And I actually come back once a year for a few months to come visit them. So actually I'm here before Mexico. I was in San Francisco visiting some family and I'll be going Texas next to Texas next to spend American Thanksgiving there with family.

Ryan Mellon [00:27:38]:
Okay. One of my favorite holidays for sure.

Cepee Tabibian [00:27:41]:
Yeah. Mine too. I used to just come back. They used to come back for a few weeks in August and then come back for Christmas. But now I'm trying to make a point to be here for Thanksgiving and Christmas because I realized I just miss Thanksgiving so much, when I'm in

Ryan Mellon [00:27:56]:
Yeah.

Cepee Tabibian [00:27:56]:
When I'm abroad. So I like to to be back with family.

Ryan Mellon [00:27:59]:
Yeah. It's a great time to be with family and also just to be thankful for things, all the things that we have. But yeah. So how do you find it? Like, do you find it challenging to keep in touch with your family when you're gone and and keeping those relationships going? Do you find coming home once a year being enough? And do you, you know, do you have family that comes and visit you in Spain?

Cepee Tabibian [00:28:24]:
I do find it challenging to stay in touch. There's no not for, like, a technology. There's so many ways to stay in touch. But personally, I'm very much like an out of sight, out of mind person. So it's really I really have to make an effort or, you know, people really have to push me to to stay in touch when I'm not in the same place as them, so I have to get better at that. But I try to have calls with my siblings and with family, but they are quite infrequent. But I will say, you know, when I do come back for a few months at a time, and I come back for a few months, which is a great chunk of time to spend with family, it's really quality time that we get to spend together. Even when we lived in the same city, I'm not sure that we spent the same kind of quality time together because everybody is just so busy with their day to day lives.

Cepee Tabibian [00:29:06]:
Right? But when it's kind of a special occasion, you're in town, everyone makes an effort, and we always try to do something memorable and different, whether that's like going to a comedy show or doing something more than just going out for dinner. Like, just try different and new things together to, you know, continue to build those bonds and make those memories together. So that's why for me, it's really important to come back for the holidays because I wanna have those memories. And each year, opportunities to do that is less less and less. So for me, it's important to come back for a few months out of the year, but I do find that, you know, for me, that that works. That works for for for what I need in my lifestyle.

Ryan Mellon [00:29:44]:
And so when you're back and you're traveling or you're in the states or you're in Mexico, how do you manage work life balance? You know, you you you're staying connected digitally. Kinda maybe walk us through it a travel day, but a travel work day for you.

Cepee Tabibian [00:30:01]:
Yeah. It's tough. I'm not gonna lie. Saying on top of things, having a routine when I'm traveling is tough. And this year, as I mentioned, I've traveled a lot. So probably every month I've been out of Spain once or for 1 or 2 weeks at a time. So I've had to really figure out what works for me here. One is just simply having a to do list for that day that isn't over scheduled.

Cepee Tabibian [00:30:24]:
Right. I need to leave space in there to be able to enjoy the place that I'm at too. Right. To go walk around, go have a lunch that I don't need to be zipping through. So to do list with some space in there, when I know I'm going to be on the road, I try not to over schedule my calendar in general. And I try hard not to be on the road when I have big events, which is not the case right now. I have my master class this week and we have 500 people signed up and I would much prefer to do that in my whole office where everything is set up the way I like it, but I have to do that from, you know, a house swap in here in Mexico, which which is fine. But I try to, you know, schedule my travel outside of any speaking gigs, any launches, anything that's gonna consume a lot of time or energy.

Cepee Tabibian [00:31:11]:
I try not to have a lot of movement when I'm doing that. And I think just trying you know, I use a a coworking app called Croissant that I really love, and it's an app that lets you that you can use globally and lets you tap into different co working spaces in different cities. So you pay a monthly subscription, and then you have a selection of different co workings you can go to. And so I find that very helpful. For instance, when I was San Francisco, I went to the same co working every day just to have that routine and break up my home life from my work life.

Ryan Mellon [00:31:46]:
Yeah. I love working in co working spaces, especially when I'm abroad because it's so easy to work from home and have it this cool place that you've never been and get distracted. But when you go to the co working space, everyone is pretty much working as well. So you feel like you're at the office, but not and then you have the aspect of being able to meet other entrepreneurs and digital nomads and make friends as well. So that's that's awesome. I haven't heard of that app either, so I'm definitely gonna have to check that out.

Cepee Tabibian [00:32:19]:
Yeah. Check it out. Crocs.

Ryan Mellon [00:32:20]:
Definitely. Croissant. I love that. Alright. Cool. Well, I really appreciate you taking the time today to talk to us, and I love what you're doing, helping people live a better life and move abroad. So just let it let the listeners know, like, where where can they find you?

Cepee Tabibian [00:32:39]:
Yes. Well, thank you so much for having me on, Ryan. This has been lovely. For any women over 30 who are interested in moving abroad, you know, come to She Hit Refresh. I mean, anyone can come to our website. We have a lot of resources, so the men can tap into that. But for any of our programs, those are just limited to women over 30. But if you go to she hit refresh.com, you'll find all the information there.

Cepee Tabibian [00:32:58]:
If you're interested in our masterclass, it's on the home page, but you can also just type in she hit refresh.comforward/masterclass. And then we're on the socials. We're on Instagram and YouTube. There's a lot of great information there as well.

Ryan Mellon [00:33:12]:
And she hit refresh on Instagram and Facebook as well?

Cepee Tabibian [00:33:15]:
Yes. Yes. She hit refresh everywhere.

Ryan Mellon [00:33:17]:
Awesome. We will put all that in the show notes so that people can, just click on it and check you out. And, again, just thanks so much. Very good conversation, and I hope you have a great day.

Cepee Tabibian [00:33:29]:
Thank you so much, Ryan. Likewise.

Ryan Mellon [00:33:33]:
Thanks for listening to another episode of Digital Nomad Nation. I hope today's stories have inspired you to take the next step towards location independence. If you've enjoyed the show, please share it with a friend and leave a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast app. Your support fuels our mission to inspire the digital nomad lifestyle. Before you go, don't forget to grab your free copy of my guide, 7 ways to become a digital nomad. It's packed with practical tips to kick start your nomadic journey. You can find a link in the episode description. And remember, the life you've always dreamed of is just one bold decision away.

Ryan Mellon [00:34:10]:
Until next time, this is the digital nomad coach, Ryan Mellon, signing off.