Trading London for Chiang Mai, Thailand: When the Cost of Living Spiked This UX Designer Went Remote with Sunil Pithwa | EP 8

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What if the rent doubled overnight in your city became the best thing that has ever happened to you?

Ryan talks with former London-based UX designer, Sunil Pithwa who faced a decision that many of us can relate to. But instead of settling for a cramped apartment hours from the city, he discovered an unexpected path to freedom that changed everything.

Learn how a tech professional turned an unexpected housing situation into an opportunity to build an amazing life abroad. If you're feeling trapped by rising costs or just dreaming of more freedom, Sunil shares practical insights on testing the waters of location independence before making the leap.

Chapters
12:22 - Sunil’s remote work policy
19:46 - Entry-level salary for UX designers
22:29 - Why avoid research when traveling
25:57 - Exploring the Streets of Vietnam
35:41 - Solo travel empowers introverts

You'll discover how to leverage your existing skills to work from anywhere, build genuine connections in new places, and find incredible communities of like-minded people around the world.

Plus, get insider tips on how to find lesser-known destinations that offer both adventure and affordability.

Hit play to discover how you can start your location-independent journey now!

Connect with Sunil: https://www.sunilpithwa.com/

MORE FROM RYAN MELLON

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DISCLAIMER:
Listening to stories of beachside zoom calls, mountainside work views, and island-hopping entrepreneurs may cause severe wanderlust and an irresistible urge to turn your laptop into a passport to freedom. Side effects include daydreaming about tropical coworking spaces, working with Ryan to learn how you can start working and traveling and buying a one-way ticket to Bali. Get ready to start living your dream life today!

Chapters

• 12:22 Sunil’s remote work policy
• 19:46 Entry-level salary for UX designers
• 22:29 Why avoid research when traveling
• 25:57 Exploring Vietnam streets
• 35:41 Solo travel empowers introverts

Transcript

Ryan Mellon: [00:00:00] Are you feeling trapped in a city with a high cost of living, watching rent groceries consume more of your paycheck? Today, I sit down with Sunil Pithwa, a freelance UX designer. When his London rent jumped 50%, he knew there had to be a better way. Sunil is now based in the popular digital nomad hub of Chiang Mai in Northern Thailand, a place I am now eager to return to after our conversation.

Sunil shares how he transitioned from the London corporate world to location independence. Plus, he reveals his favorite underrated destinations for food and culture. Learn practical tips for testing out the digital nomad lifestyle, finding affordable accommodations abroad, and building community in new places.

Stay until the end where Sunil shares a surprising skill that's made the biggest difference in his nomadic journey. 

~Hey guys, welcome to another episode of Digital Nomad Nation. ~ [00:01:00] Today I have Sunil Pithwa. Welcome Sunil.

Sunil Pithwa: Thanks, Ryan. Nice to be here.

Ryan Mellon: All right. So it's~ good to me.~ Good to see you [00:02:00] again. so where are you from and where are you at now?

Sunil Pithwa: Yeah. So I'm originally from London,~ uh,~ UK, and I'm currently in Chiang Mai, Thailand.

Ryan Mellon: Oh, awesome. So Chiang Mai is one of the top digital nomad spots in the world. ~Definitely in Thailand. Uh, ~ tell me a little bit why you're in,~ um,~ Chiang Mai.

Sunil Pithwa: Yeah, absolutely. So I came to Chiang Mai for the first time last year around November time. ~Uh, ~the job I was currently in, or the job I was in at that time, allowed me to travel for two months a year anywhere in the world. ~Um, ~I initially picked Bali actually,~ uh,~ where you are at the moment. ~Uh, ~and then a friend convinced me not to go to Bali.

So I still have yet to go to Bali,~ uh,~ and end up in Thailand. I use chat GPT plus a lot of different like references and articles to find Chiang Mai. ~Um, ~and I ended up, ended up here for about a month last year. ~Uh, ~loved it and keep coming back. I think this is my third time back. this I guess within a year.

Ryan Mellon: ~Awesome. So tell me more. Like,~ why do you love Chiang Mai? What is it about it specifically?

Sunil Pithwa: Yeah, I think Chiang Mai for me is a place I feel safe. [00:03:00] It's a place I can be myself. In London, you know, it's a big city. You are always kind of on edge a little bit out there. And being from there. I do love the place. ~Um, ~but getting to explore Southeast Asia is, is awesome. Chiang Mai is an amazing base.

The people are lovely, the food is insanely good. ~Uh, ~and there's so much variety out here. ~Um, ~not only for people who are Western, but also people who are Thai as well. And there's lots of Thai people that come from other places in Thailand. to Chiang Mai as well.

Ryan Mellon: Yeah, I agree with you. ~Um, ~Chiang Mai is such a cool place. ~Uh, ~the food is amazing and it's on every street corner, you know, the street food and the market, the night market and all that. It's just such an amazing place to eat and hang out and enjoy. ~Um, ~and then I guess there's, it's been a while since I've been there.

So before COVID was the last time I was in Chiang Mai and it's since then blown up as a digital nomad hotspot. Do you guys have a lot of like, community as far as like co working [00:04:00] spaces and events and stuff for digital nomads there? Okay.

Sunil Pithwa: spaces all around town. Lots of cafes as well. I'm a bit biased because I'm also a community manager volunteering as a community manager here. And in Chiang Mai,~ uh,~ at a place called alt,~ um,~ which is awesome. It's the place I've always stayed at when I'm here.

~Uh, ~although now I'm in an apartment, I think it's a great place. And there's a different flavor of coworkings and co livings for different personalities and different wants as well. There's, there's, you know, there's ones where you do deep work. There's ones where you're. Just having fun, but each one of them has a bit of their own community as well.

And we all kind of mix up together, so there might be a day where you want to go to a co working and just play board games after work for instance. There's a place for that. There's a place where if you just want to do deep work and just, that's all you need to do today and you just want to get lunch and want to get dinner with some people around you.

There's places where that too. So yeah, ~it's a good, uh,~ it's a good mix from day to day

Ryan Mellon: Yeah, I agree. And I think each coworking space definitely has their own [00:05:00] vibes. And,~ um,~ the one that I was here in Uluwatu and Bali just this week was very, you know, everyone was head down just getting work done and I just went ahead and paid for a half a day and I was in there for four hours and I knocked out way more work than I.

Definitely would have done if I just stayed at my Airbnb that day. So, ~um, ~sometimes that's just what you need. And,~ um,~ and then sometimes it's just more laid back vibes. You have more people available to, you know, talk and hang out and more networking and more events and stuff. So, yeah, I do like that. You also mentioned co living.

Have you spent a lot of time in different co living spaces?

Sunil Pithwa: So I spent most of my co living time I spent is in old Chiang Mai and old Ping River in Chiang Mai And then I visited other co livings. So like in in Bansko, like There's co living Valentina and there's co living Bansko, which I visited and both are [00:06:00] both are great as well ~Um, ~but I hadn't, I haven't stayed in those co work, co livings, but I've used their co working areas.

Ryan Mellon: From the co livings that you have stayed in, what would you say is some of the benefits and some of the drawbacks from just, let's say, having your own apartment

Sunil Pithwa: it's the community. Yeah, for me, it's the community. It's, it's one of the reasons why I initially stayed in a co living. ~Um, ~last year,~ um,~ specifically. And then continued doing that. ~Um, ~having that community there is amazing. Because you've got people that want to discover the place. You've got people who have been there for maybe a couple of months and know a bit more than, Everyone else around you.

So it's the community is always informing itself about different things around there. Plus,~ uh,~ the benefit of having local people as staff as well, that can give you an insight into other things in Thailand to go to that you wouldn't really even hear about if you were just staying in an apartment, Googling.

So I think that's a really like, for me, at least that's a really key benefit.

Ryan Mellon: Yeah, I like that. It's kind of like when you stay [00:07:00] in a hostel, you know, you have that, those minds around you that you can find cool places and other things, but co living tends to be a much more chill place than a hostel, a little bit older crowd. And definitely folks are more,~ um,~ You know, there to live and work instead of just kind of on vacation and some of the, you know, hostels might have a coworking space, but I've had, I've been in some hostels with coworking spaces where the DJ music is so loud is coming through the walls of the coworking space.

And I'm like, well, this doesn't really work. I don't know what they're trying to do here, but yeah,

Sunil Pithwa: I guess it works if you're co working as a DJ, but other

than that 

Ryan Mellon: I guess, but I don't know too many folks that are doing that, not, not remotely at least. So yeah, exactly. So yeah, I, I think the co living,~ um,~ arrangement is a cool thing and I've have, I still have not tried it yet, so I [00:08:00] need to get that on my

Sunil Pithwa: I gotta do it I think some some of my like best friends that I'd say that I travel with or I go to different countries to see Are some of the people I've met in co livings Which is

Ryan Mellon: Yeah. I've heard that from a lot of people. Well, and you just have the time to get to know people, right? Because you're living and working together and doing events. So like you get to just get that deeper connection with folks and really build that community. And I think that's what, what draws people to it most. So you mentioned Bangsco.

Sunil Pithwa: Mm.

Ryan Mellon: I was looking on your Instagram recently. ~Uh, ~so were you the MC at Bankso,

Sunil Pithwa: I was,~ uh,~ I was one of three MCs ~uh, ~so I mc the park stage at, at Bansko Nomad Fest, and then the two other MCs handled the main stages. ~Um, ~it was a lot of fun my first year, MCing, Bansko. ~Um, ~but a lot of fun, a lot of digital nomads, a lot of different events,~ um,~ but amazing times.

Ryan Mellon: I can imagine. So was that like,~ uh,~ was [00:09:00] that paid work? Was that volunteer work? What, what did your days look like?

Sunil Pithwa: Yeah, for me in this case, it was volunteers. It was the first time I was doing it,~ uh,~ for Bansko, but normally I am an MC. I'm an event MC, conference MC, whatever you want to call it. ~Um, ~so that's something I do professionally as well. ~Um, ~but for this, it was more, more, an opportunity to,~ um,~ be part of the nomad community, not just at the conference, but on stage at the conference as well.

So I was like, yeah, let's do this. It's gonna be a lot of fun.

Ryan Mellon: Yeah, it looks, looks like a great place to check out and it's definitely going to be on my list for future,~ um,~ festivals. I've never really, I haven't been to a Nomad Festival per se,~ um,~ yet. So also looking forward to that as well. ~Um, ~from watching everyone's Instagram that I follow that had been at Bansko, it looked like just an amazing time.

So. Take us back to the moment,~ um,~ when you realized that digital nomad life was going to be for you.

Sunil Pithwa: Mmm.

Ryan Mellon: [00:10:00] specific moment in time that, that you realized that this is, this is what I want to do?

Sunil Pithwa: Yeah, I can, I guess I can give you, I'll give you a long and short answer this one, if you, if you like. So I've been, I've been moving since, yeah, I've been moving since I was about 12 years old,~ uh,~ through my, my parents,~ uh,~ having contracts in different countries,~ um,~ usually moving between the U. S. and U. K.,

but different areas. And,~ uh,~ moving like once every year or two years. ~Uh, ~and then even in London,~ uh,~ when I was just by myself, I was moving to different areas within London as well every two years. Which is a bit unusual for Londoners, we usually stick to one area. But for me, I guess I grew up moving from place to place, so Subconsciously, I really wanted to do the same thing, even in the same country.

~Um, ~but that's like, sort of the backstory. ~Um, ~actually getting to Chiang Mai, getting, going out and digital nomading, and making that big decision to do this full time,~ uh,~ actually came about,~ uh,~ about a year and a half ago. I was in an apartment, and,~ uh, Uh, ~the rent got raised by I think about a thousand [00:11:00] pounds,~ uh,~ which is ridiculous because the rent was about a thousand pounds ~Um, ~so it would have done it would have added 500 more pounds to to my rent because I was sharing with one other person ~Um, ~which made it really unaffordable.

~Uh, ~it's not like anything was changing in the apartment. It was just a market that was changing~ um, ~beautiful apartment though,~ um,~ and I decided to go out on my own to get an apartment and That ended up being way too pricey I ended up losing out on our apartment last minute. ~Um, ~so I was like, okay, you know what?

Screw renting. I'm going to try and buy a house somewhere affordable in the UK, which is probably in the countryside somewhere away from everything else. ~Um, ~but the plan was get a house, have a dog, be like walking distance to a pub. That was like my life goal at that point.~ Um, ~new government came in and like mortgage rates skyrocketed.

I was like, ah, shit. I waited too long to like buy a house or even try and buy a house. So my options for renting and mortgages went out the door. And I was like, Okay, you know what, let's let's use this policy of two months a [00:12:00] year at my job to test this out. So Chiang Mai last year was complete test of can I do my job remotely?

I know I'm fine traveling. That's not a not a big issue for me, because I'd grown up doing that. But actually, can I work productively, while not being like in my house or not being, you know, at my desk without, you know, moving around each day, for instance. And that worked out really well. And then, and now I'm now I'm doing it all the time.

But that's where that decision making came in. And the thing in the back of my head is, as long as it's cheaper than rent in London, which is, you know, pretty much everywhere in the world, then I'm good for it.

Ryan Mellon: Yeah, no, I think a lot of people don't realize that it can, especially if you come from a place that has a high cost of living,~ um,~ traveling and living this lifestyle is usually more affordable than living at home. Which is crazy. Yeah, you wouldn't think that, you know, everyone thinks you're just rich because you're traveling the world all the time and On vacation all the time,

Sunil Pithwa: Yeah, it's what people think, ~Dylan.~

Ryan Mellon: . Yeah, it's so crazy but you did mention something in there that I wanted to [00:13:00] ask about you said something about to the extent of There was a program was our program or availability to take two months or? 

Sunil Pithwa: Yeah. So yeah, my, my previous employer,~ um,~ there was just a policy that allowed us to remote work from anywhere in the world, two months a year,~ uh,~ per calendar year, actually. ~Um, ~and that enabled people to go back and see that their family, if they're over from a different country. You know, work from family homes, things like that.

Uh, in my case, I'm from London. So, there wasn't me, I wasn't going anywhere. ~Um, ~and when I started, when I looked at it initially, I was like, Well, if I go to another country, I'm still gonna be paying rent on my apartment. It's gonna be really expensive to do that. And in my case, I guess, you know, it's a privileged position to be in where my parents had a spare room.

So I moved back into a spare room for a bit. ~Uh, ~not the most ideal choice, but it's the only choice I had at the time because rent was so high. ~Um, ~and I needed to make that transition into either buying a house or like, or, you know, renting another place somewhere way out of [00:14:00] London,~ uh,~ or making the move into remote.

Ryan Mellon: Okay, that's cool. So yeah, that's really awesome that your job allowed for that and to be able to take advantage of that So what what were you doing at that point? And what was that job?

Sunil Pithwa: Yeah, sure. So I was a,~ uh,~ senior product designer. At a company called not on the high street in the UK, and that's like a,~ uh,~ e commerce brand,~ uh,~ a marketplace type, type website type company where small businesses make products and are sold on our website. So similar to Etsy, but a curated,~ uh,~ set of businesses that we've worked with.

Ryan Mellon: Okay, so you are you're helping design the website?

Sunil Pithwa: Yeah, exactly. So I was working on the website,~ uh,~ parts of the application sometimes. And also the systems that our businesses uses,~ uh,~ to input their products onto our, onto our site and our system.

Ryan Mellon: Okay, cool. And so now are you still working with them? Are you doing something different

Sunil Pithwa: No, so I actually, I actually got back from Chiang Mai,~ uh,~ in December last year and decided I want to do this [00:15:00] full time. ~Uh, ~unfortunately the business, you know, business was, is quite, it's like sort of a small to medium business. So it didn't have the HR capacity to deal with one person going fully remote or changing policy for the whole company and going fully remote.

~Uh, ~like they're fully remote within UK, but not outside of UK. ~Um, ~so I made the decision to completely quit. ~Uh, ~which is a crazy move. ~Uh, ~but it's the move I needed to make. ~Um, ~usually it's my way of kicking myself in the butt to do things. So, ~um, ~I did that. Big risk. And,~ uh,~ decided to go out and, do it on my own.

And start my own company and contract.

Ryan Mellon: So would you consider yourself more, like a, more of a freelance or a business owner?

Sunil Pithwa: ~Uh, ~I would say at the moment freelancer. ~Um, ~and yeah, just looking for UX contracts and things like that or that nature. As well as doing events. Events is my big thing. I love doing that as well.

Ryan Mellon: Awesome. So UX, what's UX,

Sunil Pithwa: Oh, good question. So yeah, so UX is a user experience design ~Uh, ~if you think about any application or any website [00:16:00] you use more than likely a ux designer has touched that in some sort of way Generally, what we do is we look at the business needs ~Um, ~so what what the business wants to achieve by having a website or having an application?

~Uh, ~and then we also need to look at what the customers want out of that Is it you know, you know, are they trying to buy this product and we're putting all this other information in front of them that? delays that for instance ~Um, ~so understanding both sides of that Of that business relationship, I'd say, and, being able to deliver a great product to them.

So like a really good example of this is it's something from way back that I'm sure we see all the time now is,~ uh,~ when you go,~ uh,~ purchase something on a site, usually you don't need to make an account before you purchase it. Most of the time you might have like checkout as guests and a, and a while, and a while back, a UX designer inputted that because every website was forcing, forcing people to create a user before you were able to purchase.

So. Conversion rate was going down. So people were getting to the point of purchase and going, Oh, I need to make a [00:17:00] username and password before I purchase this thing.~ Um, ~I'm not going to do it. I'm gonna go somewhere else. And then someone came up with the idea of sign in with guests and suddenly. Sales are being made and you make the account at the end of the purchase rather than before the purchase just a really simple like a Really simple example.

There's a lot more in depth on that.

Ryan Mellon: sure. But it makes such a big difference. Like whoever figured that out, you know, has changed the way people buy things because that's how it is on everything now.

Sunil Pithwa: Even the software we're using right 

Ryan Mellon: online if I have to. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Awesome. And so, and then you're also doing events. So tell us a little bit about that.

Like the events that you like to do. What's your role

and why do you do them?

Sunil Pithwa: So I have been emceeing events for I think I want to say eight years now. It's been a while. ~Um, ~yeah. So emceeing events,~ uh,~ moderating panels,~ uh,~ hosting podcasts,~ uh,~ being a, being a podcast interviewee,~ um,~ and generally anything with a microphone,~ um,~ [00:18:00] I'm on,~ um,~ and,~ uh,~ it started off as,~ uh,~ product and tech conferences.

~Um, ~because I'm, I come from that side of things. ~Um, ~so I started emceeing conferences,~ uh,~ that were like 400, 500 people. Then that went up to about a thousand people,~ um,~ with some just absolutely amazing speakers. And it started as a way of getting into conferences for free. ~Um, ~cause I wasn't making much money, but I knew I could, I was okay on the mic.

And I used to do radio a long time ago as well. So this is a, it was pretty cool way of getting into things. But, um, yeah, with events, it's always been like conferences,~ um,~ you know, moderating panels. ~Um, ~I may be doing a panel in January. I'm still waiting for confirmation. But,~ um,~ yeah, just getting little pieces of things like that in person and online.

Ryan Mellon: Ah, very cool. And it gets, it allows you to travel, I imagine too, to cool places.

Sunil Pithwa: Yeah, I mean, the beauty of travel right now is that if you are in a location and There is an event that's being run locally. Then if you're there, then you can, you can talk to the organizers. They don't need to fly you in. ~Uh, ~more than likely they won't need to pay for [00:19:00] accommodation because you're already there.

~Um, ~so it's, it's an easy sell for,~ uh,~ or conference organizers and event organizers. ~Uh, ~plus like if you're, if you've got a setup, I travel with my mic and everything. ~Um, ~then you can do, you know, interviews like this, or you can do online events and things quite easily at a high quality,~ uh,~ which is a good way to do things.

Ryan Mellon: Oh, very cool. Yeah. I like that hack of just looking around you, wherever you are looking at the conferences, seeing if something, if something piques your interest, because yeah, you can actually just go meet up with them in person. ~Um, ~and it does save them time, money, and energy for you just to show up and be like, Hey, like, how can I help?

That's amazing.

Sunil Pithwa: Yeah, and a lot of times it's, you know, it may not be that you're actually involved in the act as an MC, but you may be involved in helping organize or just experiencing how, Another set of people in a different culture and different country organize their conferences. So it's a really good learning experience too.

Ryan Mellon: Yeah. I can imagine you've learned some pretty cool skills and,~ uh,~ [00:20:00] learned a lot from just. Just putting yourself in that atmosphere.

Sunil Pithwa: Totally.

Ryan Mellon: Cool. So you mentioned,~ uh,~ being a,~ a, uh, UX, um, tech is what~

Sunil Pithwa: ~Yeah, designer.~

Ryan Mellon: ~Technician designer, UN ~UX designer. So for those that are listening, that might be interested in being a UX designer.

~Um, ~what would you say is. a ballpark, maybe average starting salary for a UX designer. Who's just finished getting their certs or out of school or, or wanting to do this and do what you're doing and live the nomadic lifestyle.

I don't know. I don't know the current like entry level salary salary. I mean, like I started this 10 years ago. So I think back then it was about 30 K. Okay. ~Um, ~as a starting salary,~ um,~ but that could wildly fluctuate depending on if your startup,~ um,~ agency or client side. ~Um, ~so it depends on size of the company.

Sunil Pithwa: And also if you're going to start up, then sometimes startups will offer you equity,~ uh,~ over salary and, and wait it like [00:21:00] that. ~Um, ~I was kind of advised to, Go more for salary personally,~ um,~ if you, if you do go that route, but it depends on the startup, right? It depends on where you think the startup is going.

~Um, ~but yeah, generally generally I think that I mean That was the base pay around 10 years ago. ~Um ~these days There's a lot of ux designers So i'm not 100 sure if that's gone up or down in terms of ~uh ~in terms of starting

Ryan Mellon: Okay. Yeah. No worries. And that's a good advice as far as,~ um,~ you, you probably really want to be really confident that the company is going,~ uh,~ somewhere great,~ uh,~ to trade,~ uh,~ money for equity because at least the money's guaranteed. You, you would hope

Sunil Pithwa: Yeah, and you got to pay rent, right? Equity doesn't pay rent, initially, at least.

Ryan Mellon: Yeah, I'm in real estate and my friend's dad says,~ um,~ equity doesn't buy ~a happy man, ~even a happy meal. So, you know, it's good to have, but you can't, you can't buy anything with it. So, so how do you choose your destination? ~Um, ~like your, your, what factors into the next [00:22:00] destination? You're in Chiang Mai now, but.

I imagine you're gonna not be there forever. ~Um, ~as you move around, what are you looking for?

Sunil Pithwa: Oh, that's a good one. ~Um, ~I am a bit of a crazy, I don't know, maybe I'm a crazy traveler. I feel like I used to be a crazy traveler. ~Um, ~I, at the moment, I go to where I think friends are, where other digital nomads,~ um,~ are, and not specifically, like, obviously, Chiang Mai is a hub. But not specifically going to hubs.

~Um, ~I like to go explore new areas, new places. ~Um, ~so for instance,~ uh,~ I was in,~ um,~ where was I? I was in Da Nang and Hoi An in,~ uh,~ in Vietnam earlier in the year. I was there in about April time. And a lot of my friends know me as a foodie. I love to cook. I love to check out new restaurants ~Um, ~there's lots of lots of things I like to do with that or you know, just have barbecues with friends I had one last week.

~Um, ~and they told me about a place called penang which I had no idea what it was Where it was they just said you will love it. It's a foodie paradise It's in malaysia and I was like, okay cool. I'm actually not that far and i'm going to bangkok afterwards It's along the way [00:23:00] So, I started looking Penang,~ um,~ there was a stopover in KL at Kuala Lumpur, I'd never been there either, so, you know, I said, I'll spend a week in Kuala Lumpur.

And then I'll spend another two weeks or a week in, in Penang and check that out. So I literally just went off,~ um,~ people's suggestions. ~Uh, ~I do very little research before I go to a new country as well, because I don't want to be, I don't want to unbias myself, or give myself too much tourist information, if that means, if that helps,~ uh,~ if that explains that.

~Um, ~yeah, and I think it, it, it comes from, I guess whenever I choose, when I used to choose to go on vacation somewhere, Generally, we as humans, we choose what we we think we know. So you're going through like, let's say booking. com or something like that. And you're choosing your locations and you're generally choosing locations where you have an inkling.

Of like, what that place might be like, or what the people might be like, is it safe, is it not safe, this kind of stuff. And I started taking vacations a while ago, where I didn't know anything about the place. So it was booked by a company, they'd book a flight, they'd [00:24:00] book a hotel. I'd show up at the airport, and I'd kind of open an envelope, and it would say, You're going to this country, and I'd just go, Okay, get on the plane, and I'm off.

And the only thing I ever used to research was just how to get from the airport to the hotel. That's it.

Ryan Mellon: Yeah. And I love that. I do that actually quite a bit myself. ~Um, ~I think that just going in with fresh eyes, it's so exciting and Just doing too much research at home can just really spoil the newness of it and the adventure of just stumbling on some amazing places and then also really kind of tapping into ~Um, ~the locals and other travelers and other nomads and talking with them and hearing their feedback, because oftentimes you'll go in and you're at a co working space or an event or,~ um,~ co living.

So you're instantly getting feedback for those people that have already been in that country, maybe many months. So [00:25:00] that's. I feel like that's the best Intel that you're going to get way better than the internet is, is from people's experience on the ground.

Sunil Pithwa: Yeah, I totally agree with that. Love that.

Ryan Mellon: And so how do you,~ um,~ how do you go about connecting with the locals and, and, and, or, you know, building community as, as you're working in a new place?

Sunil Pithwa: Mmm. ~Uh, ~so I, I generally, I am generally known for going finding the watering hole. So like, I call it the watering hole, like finding out where people actually go. ~Um, ~not just Western people, not just people from my own country. ~Um, ~but people that are local to,~ um,~ and finding those places and a lot of times just walking around and looking for crowds.

It's like, oh, there's, oh, there's a crowd at this bar or this crowd, this coffee shop. Oh, that'd be great to hang out in and just listen and just like hang out in and become a regular or you know, something like that. A lot of times, people are friendly. People will come up to you and talk to you and want to [00:26:00] understand like, you know, what are you doing here?

You're the only Westerner in this bar or in this coffee shop. You know, this is a different area, you know. ~Um, ~so you end up striking up conversations through that. A lot of, you know, most of the time, most countries you go to, people are proud to show you their country. People are proud to talk about their place.

~Um, ~and also meeting the, you know, the shop owners or customers. The bar bartenders, etc People are proud that you're there people want to conversate And it is a social environment. It's not like i'm walking into an office So it's ~uh, ~it's a place where people go to meet each other and you end up finding out so much about ~uh ~the country You learn different phrases in different languages there as well.

So it's ~uh, ~that's usually my go to I usually find the nearest place I can get beer or coffee And ~uh ~and head there and and talk to people

Ryan Mellon: I love it. Yeah. Cause I do the same thing. Beer and coffee with water in between.

There's that, that's how I start and end my days. And it's a great way to find new people and just walk the streets and see where people are hanging out. I remember specifically being [00:27:00] in,~ uh,~ like, I think it was a lot Vietnam and,~ um,~ the coffee there is amazing.

And I walked into this. Random coffee shop like 7 30 in the morning and it was all just locals about to go to work and they're having their coffee and a cigarette and i'm the only westerner in there and You know, I had multiple people just chatting me up in

english, you know, hey, where are you from?

What's going on? How are you? You know, how do you love vietnam? You got to check this out This and, you know, like very, just very interested, very kind, very outgoing. ~Um, ~so some of those experiences are just. It's, it's something that, like, you're not going to have in London, right? Like, no one's coming up to you in London probably at a coffee shop and, and striking up conversations.

Sunil Pithwa: do. They do. But then you're, you're a little on edge, kind of, you're questioning, your head's going to be like, why is this person talking to me?

Ryan Mellon: Yeah,

Sunil Pithwa: What do they want? What's going on? Yeah. Yeah. Because you're in a big city, you're always on edge. It was kind of like, [00:28:00] Hey, what's, what, what's the ulterior motive here?

Ryan Mellon: yeah a hundred percent. I mean, it's just a same at home with me in the States I'm like, all right. What is what is this person trying to sell me? I'm just waiting for it. So yeah,

Sunil Pithwa: Yeah.

Ryan Mellon: it's very different but uh Well cool, so Balancing like your work life and,~ um,~ exploring. Do you have any tips, tricks? Do you have a, do you like a routine?

Like how, what does a normal day look?

Sunil Pithwa: I think, I think the thing that I, I think made something I've grown to understand more. And, and I think that I'm a lot better at doing it now than I used to be when I was younger, is that like work is there to like fuel life. So it shouldn't be about work all the time. Work's just there just to pay for, for life and to get more experience to then help you live a better life.

~Um, ~if you can get to that point, if you can get that to mindset, then Things become a little bit easier because you're able to balance things a bit better Life is you know life and exploring is weighted more than work work is just paying [00:29:00] for everything ~Um ~and making friends too, but I think yeah for me, it's ~uh ~exploring getting out there but also doing if you are doing work and And you know that's weighted higher as well having work that that is actually part of your life as well So like for instance at the moment, like i'm volunteering in chiang mai But also doing like u.

s contracts here and there but i'm not too fussed about that at the moment You At the moment, I'm loving volunteering. So that's the one thing I'm doing and it's community managing,~ um,~ which is something I wanted to develop anyway,~ um,~ outside as a, as a bit of a career. ~Um, ~and that would help me in my design work as well as like becoming a manager or lead.

~Um, ~so with that volunteer work, even though it's, it's technically, technically a volunteer role, it's helping me actually progress in how I would kind of deliver UX and deliver. As a UX designer in the future to

Ryan Mellon: Okay. Awesome. ~Awesome. ~So for someone who is looking to be, become a digital nomad for the first time, what's your advice?

Sunil Pithwa: no kidding. ~Um, ~[00:30:00] I think it's,~ uh,~ I think doing a test, I think I, I tested it out,~ um,~ by coming to Chiang Mai for a month last year. And I think doing a test is a good idea because you get to find out if,~ um,~ you have, if you're able to hand because it's going to a new place and working from a cafe or working from a co working part is almost the simplest part of it.

Having the mindset and being able to. Handle yourself mentally day by day. You know, if you need a routine, making that routine. If you, you know, making friends,~ uh,~ staying in contact with people at home, those kind of things, I think it's just testing out your resilience and testing out what you need to really, you know, to really be digital nomad, to survive going from country to country.

~Um, ~I did that in April as well. I tested it out by, so last year was a test for a month in April. I tested out by doing week to week. So I went from a new place. ~Uh, ~like a new town to a new town, every week to two weeks. Just to see what would happen. Like, cause I'd never really done that, in that, such a quick succession.

~Um, ~so [00:31:00] seeing if I could actually handle that while working while while hanging out while exploring Things like that and I was able to do that. No problem. ~Um, ~and that actually tested me to the limit ~Uh, ~which I was like, okay cool Now I know what my baseline is if I need to travel every week I'm good if I need to travel every few months.

I'm good. I know i'm good with that, too So I think giving it a test for Your own needs and almost and there's many many many flavors of digital nomad just because you know I'm doing this or you're doing this ~Um ~doesn't mean we'll have the same digital nomad experience. I think you need to find what works for you So for some people it's the is a term called slow mad ~Um ~and people you know want to stay in a place for six months for instance~ Um, ~or you know or more than just one month.

So if that's your vibe go for it But I think testing it out and and finding what works for you is is a key to that 

Ryan Mellon: Yeah, I agree. I really like that advice. ~Um, ~I always,~ uh,~ tell clients, you know, if you're, if you're really interested in this and you're [00:32:00] working remotely already, take one, take your regular one week of vacation and book two weeks, you know, and yeah. Have that first week completely off. Don't worry about work and then try and work week two from that vacation spot.

See how you do, see how you enjoy it. See if, if you have , technological issues or, or anything like that and just kind of give it a test run, you know, it's, it's very easy. And if, if it just all goes to absolute shit, you can just get on the plane and get back as soon

as possible. And, you know, it's.

It's not too big, not too big of a deal. So I like that advice. ~Um, ~and then you also met mentioned like slow matting. So like for me, I've, I've never done slow matting, but that's exactly what I'm doing right now. You know, I have a one year visa. And in Bali now, digital nomad visa, and I'll be here for six months.

And it's really the first time that I'm going to actually stay in one place for a while, because I have a lot of [00:33:00] big projects I'm working on. I love Bali. It's my fourth time here. it's an amazing place. So I think. You know, previously in the past few years, I'm hopping around every two to three weeks or months, and that can be a lot, that can be very stressful.

So, just having the ability to switch it up as you go. And if you fall in love with place,~ um,~ doing the slow mad route is,~ uh,~ is awesome too.

Sunil Pithwa: ~Hmm.~

Ryan Mellon: ~Cool.~ So, ~um, ~tell me what. Out of all the places you've been, maybe give me one. Is there one that sticks out in your mind that's underrated in your opinion?

Sunil Pithwa: Ooh. ~Um, ~underrated. Are we including like just travel in general, like vacations as well? Okay. ~Um, ~I got a couple. So one is Penang and in Malaysia.

Ryan Mellon: Okay.

Sunil Pithwa: It is a beautiful place. The food is amazing. The people are amazing. It's such a, such a mix of different cultures, but like over generations because it was a trading post,~ uh,~ long, long time ago.

So you got a really good mix of things there. ~Um, ~and you're on an [00:34:00] island. So if you do want to go to a beach, you can go to a beach quite easily. ~Um, ~so yeah, a really great place, really beautiful, national parks, that kind of stuff. ~Um, ~the other place, which I absolutely love, and I had no idea I was going to,~ um,~ be there, was Vilnius, Lithuania.

~Um, ~and I, that was one of my surprise trips that I went on. I had no idea I was going there. The people are super friendly. ~Um, ~it was like a day after a conference that I'd done. So, there were people on the plane that recognized me, which I didn't know. from Lithuania. So there were people like saying hello to me on the plane, which was like, wow, this is super weird and nice. And I actually got invited to like the University of Arts to talk to the students there by UX. Very, very like super friendly place. Amazing people. It was super cold when I was there. I think I was there in February or something a few years ago. But yeah, really welcoming place loads of history. And it's like really good sites around town to walk around.

And yeah, it's just one of those places where I really want to go back and,~ uh,~ and talk [00:35:00] to, you know, people I met there last time and see how, how, you know, things, new things that have come up. ~Um, ~but yeah, I really, really enjoy it. Plus I love that their tourism. ~Uh, ~their tourism statement, at least when I was there, was hilarious.

~Um, ~because it was,~ um,~ I think their, this is the official tourist line for Vilnius, Lithuania. It was,~ uh,~ the G spot of Europe. So, like, it's amazing, but no one knows where we are. ~Um, ~and I think that was their, uh,~ uh,~ that was their tourist, statement. That I think some people loved and some people hated, but I 

Ryan Mellon: I think it's, it's very creative and it gets people a laugh and like who wouldn't want to go there.

Sunil Pithwa: Yeah, sounds like a great place.

Ryan Mellon: that's funny. I love it. All right, cool. So, ~uh, ~just curious. Do you tend to travel solo with friends, family, partner?

Sunil Pithwa: I just, I just travel solo. Yeah, I travel, I travel solo and usually if I don't have friends in a location, I make friends in a location. ~Um, ~so I'm very much one of these people who ~um, ~just are known for it, just going out and meeting everyone and then ~um, ~just hanging out really and making friends.

Ryan Mellon: Yeah. I [00:36:00] love that. I do a lot of solo travel myself. Are you more of an introvert or an extrovert? Would you

Sunil Pithwa: Oooh, see if you ask other people they'll say I'm an extrovert. But for me, it's,~ uh,~ I'm an introvert that I guess I've learned to kind of switch it on when I need it. ~Um, ~but I, I definitely need days to just recharge. Like, there'll be days where I don't leave my room. And I'm just like, you know what, I'm just going to be on the laptop doing a bit of work.

And I'm not going to be any social today. And there'll be days where all I will be is social. So, I guess maybe somewhere in the middle.

Ryan Mellon: Yeah, yeah, I think it's important to talk about because I think a lot of introverts probably are scared of getting out there and, and Having to put themselves out there and solo travel is one of those things where it forces you out of your bubble and your comfort zone, but you can also turn it off, like you said, and, and just hole up in a room or a corner of a coworking space with your headphones on and just kind of.

get to work and recharge and do your thing. Cause I I'm the same way. ~Uh, ~you know, ~uh, ~like a friend of mine says, [00:37:00] I'm a recovering introvert. So, ~um, ~you, you've gotta, if you're really feeling lonely, you know, sometimes you need to be the first one to say it's really simple, but where are you from? At the bar or the cafe or anywhere.

And that's the most easiest way to start a conversation and make a new friend. So, ~um, ~yeah, interesting to know

Sunil Pithwa: Yeah, and there's always there's always

Ryan Mellon: out there.

Sunil Pithwa: oh this loads absolute loads And I think there's the good thing is there's also like little in for introvert groups There's you know where you you know, you don't need to meet up in law in person if you don't want to you know Could be a Facebook Facebook group or you know support community kind of whatsapp groups all around Especially in nomad hubs like Chiang Mai.

There's always a whatsapp group for something and if there isn't just start it.

Ryan Mellon: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. ~Uh, ~I just joined the one here in Bali and that's been really nice just to see what's going on,~ uh,~ events. And there's always the Facebook groups as well. Type in digital [00:38:00] nomads and the country you're in or region you're in anywhere in the world. There's already a Facebook group for it more than likely.

So yeah, that's a good way as well. So I just had a couple rapid fire questions in this first one. I think I may know the answer. We may have already discovered this answer, but I, but I'm going to ask anyhow. Best, best place.~ Uh, ~food wise

that you've been best food.

Sunil Pithwa: Best food. I think it's a cross between Chiang Mai and Penang.

Ryan Mellon: Okay.

Sunil Pithwa: Yeah. Thai food, Thai food is just insanely good. And then Malaysian, specifically from Penang, is amazing.

Ryan Mellon: What specifically in Penang like type of dishes?

Sunil Pithwa: Oh, it's like, it's like a mixture of different cultures in one dish. So there's,~ uh,~ there's,~ um,~ like, it's sort of like Malaysian, Indian and Chinese all together. ~Um, ~so there's one called nasi lemak,~ uh,~ which I've forgotten what it is, but it's incredibly tasty.~ Uh, ~there's another one called,~ uh,~ Chaka Tao and Chaka Tao, I think you can only get it in Penang.

~Um, ~and that is [00:39:00] absolutely amazing. It's just like a little noodle dish,~ uh,~ with,~ um,~ I think there's a few prawns. There's a bit of spice in there too, but it's the sauce that really makes it. So each vendor you go to has a different Chaka Tao, but it's still Chaka Tao and it's incredible.

Ryan Mellon: okay. I'll definitely put the put that on the list awesome so ~One more or two more so best. ~What's your best hack for finding affordable accommodation?

Sunil Pithwa: Ooh, um, that's an interesting one. I think for me, it's, it's Going like, I think what I've done in the past is sign up for a week at an Airbnb or hotel on booking. com or something like that. Checking out a coworking and then talking to the people in the coworking. So talking, rather than just relying on online, talking to people at the coworking, that includes staff as well.

Because they'll usually have a good in with someone, they may even have a deal with someone. So a lot of sometimes they might have a 10 percent off or something or a lot It could be even their friend runs the place so that ends up being a better way to [00:40:00] go ~Um, ~but yeah, if you if you're talking to people in the co working that use the co working They're gonna have have gone through the same situation before so they'll have good suggestions of places to go and places also not to go

Ryan Mellon: Okay, yeah, I love it. Talking to,~ uh,~ other travelers that are already doing it is a great way. And there are a lot of,~ uh,~ places that are just not online, you know.

Sunil Pithwa: yeah A lot of places you just got to go from from place to place and you know Just ask at the front desk and a lot of times that place is not online at all You

Ryan Mellon: Yeah, yeah. I've been searching for a villa or apartment here in Bali and I've been doing a lot of that. ~Outside of, uh,~ Outside of the online stuff, I've just been, you know, riding my bike,~ uh,~ my scooter all around the island. And if any place piques my interest, I just stop in and say, Hey, check it out.

They'll, they'll, they'll give you a whole tour of the grounds and show you a room right away if they have anything available. And you can talk right then and kind of negotiate a price if it's something you like. So,~ um, ~it's

Sunil Pithwa: Yeah, it's great. And you end up supporting local as well.

Ryan Mellon: Yeah, a [00:41:00] hundred percent. Right. You're not,~ um, uh, ~get at least they're getting more of the money.

Right. And you

Sunil Pithwa: Yeah, because usually they'll give a percentage to online, you know, booking service. This way they just, you know, straight up with you.

Ryan Mellon: absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I love that. And last question. Most valuable skill you've learned since you've been a digital nomad.

Sunil Pithwa: Oh, that's a big one. ~Uh, ~oh, what have other people, what have other people said of this one? ~Uh, ~most valuable skill I've learned while doing this? ~Um, ~maybe packing less. Maybe I think I used to pack so much when I used to travel. Yeah.~ Uh, ~now I'm, I'm still packing, you know, I'm still, I need, still need to downsize my packing, to be fair.

~Um, ~but yeah, I always used to, I always used to pack, like, things that are like, Oh, just in case, like, I might need this just in case. And I'd get back to London, or get back to another location, and be like, Why did I bring this with me? And I didn't need it the whole time. For me, it's like, wearing trousers, wearing, like, jeans.

I never wear jeans. Why did I travel with pairs of jeans? Like, I'm going to hot [00:42:00] countries.

Ryan Mellon: Yeah.

Sunil Pithwa: there's little things like that that end up helping you out quite a lot because I think before then you'd end up collecting stuff in each country. And then having, having to pay like, ~uh, ~baggage, extra baggage fee when traveling back or even internally.

~Uh, ~cause international flights you can take more baggage with you, but internal flights you can't.~ Um, ~so having a lighter baggage is a, is a big skill.

Ryan Mellon: yeah, no, I like that. And I've always tried. My, my deal is I travel with two carry ons and I never check anything. And if it doesn't fit in my two carry ons, it doesn't go. So if I'm out shopping and I am buying something new, I have to think about, all right, well, what is going to be getting purged from my bag?

You know, if I buy a new t shirt, I'm donating or, you know, Throwing out like one that's at the end of its life, you know, something like that, just to kind of keep that balance because it's like you said, it's really easy to start collecting things. [00:43:00] And, and, and another point I think is important, the just in case stuff,~ um,~ especially when you're traveling in places that are fairly inexpensive, you pretty much can find anything anywhere.

I mean, there's certain things that you want to travel with that you need high quality stuff. Like maybe. Hotspots, laptops, microphones, stuff like that. But outside of that clothing, any other just in case toiletries, anything like that, you can buy it anywhere and you can probably buy it for cheaper than,

um, at home.

So, ~uh, ~that's always, that's always an option too.

Sunil Pithwa: Yeah, I love that you travel with just two carry ons. I need to learn from you now. ~I've got one, ~I've got ~one check in and two carry ons. Yeah, ~one carry on, one check in. But I need to get rid of the check in stuff. Like, I need to, I need to get to your level, Ryan.

Ryan Mellon: Hey man, just a little bit at a time. You'll get there. But,~ uh,~ yeah, well, very good talking with you. I think this was an amazing conversation,~ um,~ providing a lot of value for, for our listeners. And,~ uh,~ it was amazing to hear your story. [00:44:00] So where can people find you?

Sunil Pithwa: Ooh. ~Um, ~in Chiang Mai. If you're here, come, come say hi. ~Um, ~but outside of that, yeah, I have an Instagram called wearshortseveryday. I literally do wear shorts every day unless someone forces me to wear trousers ~Um, ~and it's literally just my my account of me traveling a lot of silliness and ~um ~You might see videos of me emceeing and things like that ~Um ~as well as linkedin people feel free to connect with me on linkedin and ask questions about nomading or ux or events And if there is an event anywhere, just let me know.

Ryan Mellon: Very cool. Well, we'll,~ uh,~ put that info info in the show notes and,~ uh,~ thank you so much for taking the time. It was very good talking with you and enjoy Thailand.

Sunil Pithwa: Thanks. Ryan I really appreciate the opportunity and ~uh ~lovely to speak to to your listeners

Ryan Mellon: Thanks.

[00:45:00]