The Truth About Digital Nomad Life: Challenges, Rewards, and How You Can Start with Dat Tai, Remote Sales Professional | EP 16

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How do you turn nomad life into a sustainable long-term lifestyle?

Ryan is joined by Dat Tai, an Australian sales professional who turned his traditional corporate role into a remote career spanning Southeast Asia. After experiencing one of the world's longest COVID lockdowns in Melbourne, Dat discovered how to keep his full-time job while working from places like Thailand, Vietnam, and Sri Lanka - without sacrificing his career or savings.

You'll learn the exact system Dat uses to maintain peak job performance while working remotely across time zones. Whether you're worried about managing client relationships from abroad, concerned about living costs, or unsure how to convince your company to let you work remotely, Dat shares practical insights from his two and a half years of experience that you can implement today.

Chapters:
05:20 - Dat’s first digital nomad experience
06:56 - 250 days of lockdown in Melbourne
09:55 - The reality of working across time zones
18:12 - Are co-livings worth it?
30:20 - Biggest lessons

If you are dreaming of making Thailand your home base, Dat shares details about the country's new Digital Nomad Visa, officially called the LTR (Long Term Resident) Digital Talent Visa. This visa allows you to legally stay and work remotely in Thailand for up to 180 days and is renewable for five years.

Listen and learn how much you could be saving if you were to live in Southeast Asia.

MORE FROM RYAN MELLON

Follow Ryan on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thedigitalnomadcoach/

Learn how to be a Digital Nomad: https://www.thedigitalnomadcoach.com/

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DISCLAIMER:
Listening to stories of beachside zoom calls, mountainside work views, and island-hopping entrepreneurs may cause severe wanderlust and an irresistible urge to turn your laptop into a passport to freedom. Side effects include daydreaming about tropical coworking spaces, working with Ryan to learn how you can start working and traveling and buying a one-way ticket to Bali. Get ready to start living your dream life today!

Chapters

• 5:20 Dat’s first digital nomad experience
• 6:56 250 days of lockdown in melbourne
• 9:55 The reality of working across time zones
• 18:12 Are co-livings worth it?
• 30:20 Biggest lessons

Transcript

[00:00:00] Ryan Mellon: How would your life change if you could work from anywhere in the world? Today, I sit down with Datai, a customer success professional who went from enduring one of the world's longest COVID lockdowns in Melbourne to now working remotely across Southeast Asia. he's lived and worked in Vietnam, Malaysia, Sri Lanka, and Thailand, all while keeping his full time ~tech~ job.

[00:00:19] Ryan Mellon: You'll discover how Dat convinces his company to let him work remotely, his early morning routine that lets him explore paradise by afternoon, and how he's actually saving money living in Thailand compared to Australia. Stay Dat's crucial advice about the biggest mistake new digital nomads make when first hitting the road.

[00:00:36] Ryan Mellon: This single tip could save you from burning out before your journey begins.

[00:01:00] 

[00:01:44] Ryan Mellon: Today I have Dat Tai. Welcome, Dat. How are you today?

[00:01:48] Dat: I'm doing really well. Right. Good to be here.

[00:01:50] Ryan Mellon: Awesome. Awesome. So, ~uh, ~tell us,~ uh,~ where you're at now and where you're from.

[00:01:55] Dat: Yeah. So I'm currently in Chiang Mai at the moment. So Chiang Mai is just North of [00:02:00] Thailand. ~Um, ~I'm originally from Australia. ~Um, ~yeah, so born and raised there all my life. And now I would say, yeah, a bit of a digital nomad traveling around and working off from my laptop.

[00:02:10] Ryan Mellon: That's awesome, man. So What type of work do you do?

[00:02:13] Dat: Yeah. ~So I work for a tech company. Uh, it's, uh, within the sales space. So I work for, uh, uh, it's called, can we cut things out of the game?~

[00:02:14] Ryan Mellon: ~Yeah, it's all good. Just~

[00:02:14] Dat: ~I could just keep going. Oh, cool. Yeah.~ So I work for a tech company,~ um,~ within customer success. So a bit of a sales role. ~Um, ~so, which means I, you know, can kind of work anywhere remotely.

[00:02:21] Dat: A company has gone remote first. ~Um, ~so what that means is, yeah, we, we closed down majority of our offices. We have one left. ~Um, ~and yeah, like it doesn't really matter where we work. We have a policy in place that lets us work overseas.

[00:02:34] Ryan Mellon: ~That's awesome.~ I love that So did that happen due to COVID or has that kind of always been the case? Yes

[00:02:43] Dat: that long, but,~ um,~ I guess like I could probably share how I found remote working. Yeah. So, ~um, ~bit, bit of context there. Like I've, this is very, it was very, very new to me. I kind of worked in traditional nine to five corporate company,~ um,~ you know, office in a day, five days a week and [00:03:00] whatnot kind of thing.

[00:03:01] Dat: ~Uh, ~but always had like a, you know, always loved traveling like Australians. We were pretty laid back and we love, you know, taking our four weeks of. Holiday or PTO, you guys call it,~ um,~ around the world. ~Um, ~so travel is a really big thing and have always kind of gone on holidays around Asia and all that stuff like that for weeks and then,~ um,~ COVID kind of hit and then we were like just stuck for like, I think we had one, Melbourne had one of the longest consecutive lockdowns in the world, it was like 250 days or something like that.

[00:03:27] Dat: Absolutely crazy. Yeah, it was, it was intense. So, you know, having that travel bug or like, you know, all. All of us wanting to travel, it was, it was pretty,~ um,~ intense. Yeah.

[00:03:37] Ryan Mellon: I gotcha. So you had a regular nine to five that you had to go in the office every day. what, what made it made you make the jump to like becoming a digital nomad? Is there a moment or a time that you knew like, all right, this is what I want to do. This is I'm just going to jump into,~ uh,~ traveling and trying to manage work.

[00:03:55] Dat: Yeah. So again, like I, I fell into it. ~Um, ~right. So it was weird. Like [00:04:00] I was like, okay, in my career wise, I don't want to work this nine to five. Let's do something super crazy. ~Um, ~let's join a tech company. And I was like, reaching out to, you know, tech companies, talking to a lot of people. And then a good friend of mine was like, Hey, talk to my CEO.

[00:04:14] Dat: ~Um, ~you know, he, he, he thinks you'd be really good at, you know. Say it was a customer success at the time. So we, we had that, we, we chatted and, you know, made the jump across. And as you know, you're onboarding and you're looking through like notion pages and all this stuff like that. They had this tab, it was like remote work policy.

[00:04:29] Dat: It's like, Hey, you can work remotely, you know, two months of the year, or like three months of the year, just let your line manager know, and that really like that perked up my interest. It was like, What that's a, that's a thing. I never knew you could do that, but you know, Make sense. And that's cool. And then,~ um,~ you know, COVID showed that we can work, you know, from home and all that kind of thing.

[00:04:49] Dat: So then kind of going back to when lock down, you know, finished in Melbourne. I was like. Oh my God, I want to, I want to, I want to do this. I want to like, you know, jump on a plane and go work somewhere. And,~ um,~ where's the best [00:05:00] place to go? I was like, let's just go to Bali. Like, you know, Bali is super close, you know, it's very familiar times, you know, for like box parties and stuff like that, you know, like family holidays.

[00:05:10] Dat: I was like, okay, let's go there. And, you know, made the trip over and, ah, gosh, I've just never looked back since. 

[00:05:15] Ryan Mellon: ~That's awesome. ~Yeah, Bali is amazing. I'm there now and, one of my favorite places ever to be. It's just, it's so amazing and such a good community of digital nomads here.

[00:05:25] Dat: Yeah.

[00:05:25] Ryan Mellon: are you traveling full time? I know you,~ uh,~ mentioned earlier you were traveling for about two and a half years.

[00:05:30] Ryan Mellon: Like how many times have you been back home in that time?

[00:05:33] Dat: Yeah. So in, in the kind of two and a half years I've done six months on six months off kind of thing. ~Um, ~at the start it was going to Bali and then, you know, really falling in love with that and going back home and then,~ um,~ then work, you know, kind of just living the life in Melbourne for a bit, but, you know, still going, Oh, something's like missing what's going on.

[00:05:52] Dat: Like, you know, just the people that you meet overseas is just absolutely amazing. Like, you know, just. Like I met a group of friends there [00:06:00] at state of the co working co living place. ~Um, ~and those guys are actually currently in Chiang Mai. So like we, we got to meet up like two and a half years later and still picking up where we left and just the friendships that you make over there are just awesome and really, really cool.

[00:06:14] Dat: ~Um, ~but yeah, like I, I felt something was missing and then last year kind of took the plunge to do it, like, you know, eight months on or so thereabouts. Packed up in like April or so, I think,~ um,~ and then just went. Every single country that I could think of.~ I think I started in, where did I start?~ I started in Chiang Mai, was there for a month.

[00:06:32] Dat: Then I went to Vietnam, did another month there after Vietnam was in Malaysia for a couple of weeks. ~Um, ~and then, yeah, just went to like maybe Sri Lanka,~ uh,~ Malaysia. So yeah, like the list and list goes on and it's just like an absolutely. Great thing that I had the opportunity and the work was really cool with it.

[00:06:49] Dat: ~Um, ~you know, I was just doing Australian hours and that was the thing that I had to make sure that I was doing. so yeah, there's like a four hour difference. So I am a morning person as well. So that's like up at 5 AM, 6 [00:07:00] AM working till one or two o'clock. Yeah.

[00:07:02] Ryan Mellon: Okay, so you need to get up pretty early, but you're done at what time each day,

[00:07:07] Dat: I like one, two, three o'clock. I'm pretty much done for the day, which is good. It means I like have the rest of the day to explore, see the country I'm at. And I think that's like. The best schedule for me as well. Yeah.

[00:07:18] Ryan Mellon: Yeah, that's awesome And Monday through Friday, so you have the weekends as well

[00:07:22] Dat: Yeah. Yeah. I got the weekends off as well, which is really good. Yep. Yeah. So just Monday, Friday. Yeah.

[00:07:26] Ryan Mellon: That's awesome. Yeah, I think starting early and getting done early makes a big difference because you still have daylight, especially like, you know, being in Asia this time of year, like it doesn't get too dark early and you still have plenty of time to explore. ~Um, so yeah, um. So, Ashu,~ you said,~ um,~ you've been to a bunch of places in Asia.

[00:07:43] Ryan Mellon: Have you been anywhere like,~ um,~ North America while trying to manage your work?

[00:07:48] Dat: So I did try that honestly did not last that long. So I went over to,~ um,~ so family had some family wedding over in San Fran. So was there for like, I think [00:08:00] it was a. A couple of weeks or so I tried to nomad over there, but the hour difference was just like, from memory, I think I was working like midnight or something like that.

[00:08:08] Dat: It was just not sustainable. ~Um, ~and I just couldn't do that, but, you know, funny enough, like I've met people on my travel that come from the States and come over here. And like, I met one, one, one friend of mine, she was doing. New York hours. So that meant she was doing like 8 PM to like 5 AM or something like that.

[00:08:26] Dat: And I'm just like, where do you have the energy to explore? But she was a trooper. She would wake up every day, you know, explore, you know, be very like regimented. We're like, okay, I need to take a nap now. And then I'm going to go start working and then having like coffees in between. But she was,~ uh,~ she was great.

[00:08:40] Dat: Yeah. She, she, she made it work and yeah, she was, it was pretty cool. To see that, but I couldn't do that. I tried to do that. I was like, Oh, Hey, I might be inspired by you. But I'm like too, too hard.

[00:08:50] Ryan Mellon: Yeah, it's definitely something to think about. Like, and it's something that when I'm coaching people to become digital nomads, I bring up, like, it really depends on your job. Like if you [00:09:00] need to be an in person talking to people, zoom calls, in person meetings, phone calls available during certain hours, like you really need to.

[00:09:10] Ryan Mellon: Choose your destination wisely, because otherwise you're gonna be working night shift. And a lot of people just don't love that. And it's really also hard to explore a place when you're working night shift, you know, it really throws the energy off. So yeah, it's, it's always something to think about. So I imagine your job.

[00:09:28] Ryan Mellon: Expects you to are you on the on the phone a lot? Are you on calls a lot like in person?

[00:09:35] Dat: Yeah. Yeah. So I'm on a lot of calls. So most of my calls are kind of in the morning or like the afternoon. Sometimes I try to put schedule to the back of the day. So maybe like 10, 11, 12, like. Thailand time, which would be like afternoon in Oz. So that's the thing that I really need to be conscious of is making it work for me.

[00:09:52] Dat: So like making sure that my lifestyle, like the way choosing to be a nomad doesn't impact the company that I work for. ~Um, ~so if [00:10:00] there's a call that I need to be up really early, I'm showing up for that and making sure that I'm well prepared and like, you know, not flustered or anything like that. Cause that's the last thing I think you want your company to see that, Oh, he's just messing about and, you know.

[00:10:12] Dat: Just out traveling and not actually working. So I don't want my work to be kind of impacted. So for the time being, I've kind of restricted myself to Southeast Asia. ~Um, ~but I'm considering maybe going over to, you know, South America or that time of the other side of the world where,~ um,~ a lot of Europeans are coming over here and doing like that two to 10 PM time time slot, that's what I'm maybe considering doing as well at some point in my life.

[00:10:35] Dat: Yeah.

[00:10:36] Ryan Mellon: Okay. Yeah, it's it's good advice as well Just making sure you're on top of it so that your boss doesn't call you back Back to the country. Right. You know, if you're slacking, if you're not a good employee, if you're not getting it done, you know, my experience, like you've got to be a good employee if you're working remotely internationally, like you really do have to put in the [00:11:00] extra work to make sure that you're good, if you're just going to be, you know, doing the bare minimum.

[00:11:04] Ryan Mellon: And then they find out that you're out of the country, it's really gonna. ~Um, ~shake things up real fast. So it's, it's a quick way to, to, to kind of mess up your,~ uh,~ digital nomad journey. So,

[00:11:17] Dat: Cause like it's, there's more, you know, there's, there's a lot more distractions and fun things to do when you're on the road. So you have to be, I think just like you said, on top of your game, when it comes to work, right. Like this is a cool lifestyle, but you got to make sure that piece is just like solid.

[00:11:30] Dat: Yeah.

[00:11:31] Ryan Mellon: yeah, there's a aspect of self discipline to it, right. You know, the other day I woke up at. 1. 30 in the morning to do a 2 a. m. podcast

[00:11:42] Dat: Oh my gosh. Yeah.

[00:11:50] Ryan Mellon: screwed up my whole next day, but I'm like, you know what? You just have to do what you have to do

[00:11:54] Dat: to do what you do. Yeah. But that's the last that we tried it for. Yep.

[00:11:58] Ryan Mellon: yeah, I mean it [00:12:00] comes It comes with so many benefits that if you gotta do something like that every once in a while, it's not the end of the world.

[00:12:06] Ryan Mellon: If I had to do 2am,~ uh,~ call, you know, three days a week, yeah, I would be probably in,~ uh,~ Central America or South America right now. But yeah, so how do you choose like your next destination like if you're you're in Chiang Mai now But you want to go somewhere else and a bit like what what factors into your choice as far as like next destination

[00:12:31] Dat: Yeah, for sure. Now that's a really good question, Ryan. So for me, it's, I'm kind of guided by what friends kind of the community people kind of tell me. ~Um, ~but yeah, like I, I'd like to go to like coworking, coworking, co living spaces where there's a, there's a bit of a sense of community there where they bring people together.

[00:12:48] Dat: ~Um, ~cause that makes it really easy to like meet people and meet other digital nomads and hear their story as well. And I think like I've made what one. A lot of my bestest friends or closest friends living in these places. ~Um, ~so I've stayed at a [00:13:00] couple, like the one I'm at right now, it's called Chiang Mai, Ping river.

[00:13:03] Dat: They've got two locations. ~Um, ~but I've stayed at like, there's one in Bali called outposts and dojo as well. I think you might've heard of those. ~Um, ~and yeah, they're, they're just like great spots to meet people and hear people's stories. Like I've met some really cool people and like, like, Oh, how are you?

[00:13:19] Dat: Doing that overseas. Like I met one person here. She runs, it was like five chiropractic clinics out of the Netherlands. ~Um, ~which is crazy, right? Like she just does back of house stuff, but she's like working here and here on the road for six months. And I was like, that's so cool. Like you're probably the most interesting person I've met that is a nomad.

[00:13:37] Dat: Cause like most of the time we're meeting like freelancers, content creators, or people that work in tech. Right. But I was like, Hey, yeah, physical stores over there. And you get to be here. That's, that's amazing.

[00:13:47] Ryan Mellon: that's interesting. So she she owns the owns them

[00:13:50] Dat: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:13:51] Ryan Mellon: running her businesses

[00:13:52] Dat: That's correct. Yeah. I think she's got like a,~ uh, uh, ~a partner over there that runs then the day to day, but she does the back of house stuff and she can do the [00:14:00] back of house stuff whilst over in Chiang Mai. Yeah.

[00:14:03] Ryan Mellon: That is cool. And it is possible, you know, like for me personally, I'm in real estate, so I own and manage a portfolio rental properties from, you know, 10, 000 miles away, so I need to have some boots on the ground and if a toilet breaks in the middle of the day, I might be getting a call in the middle of the night here.

[00:14:24] Ryan Mellon: ~Um, ~so it's just something that. You know, you got to set up for you leave. ~Um, ~but I find that like almost any business you can,~ uh,~ get the team. If you get the right team together, you can like get, get your freedom and get out there. Like you don't have to be tech savvy just to, to, to do it. So yeah, that's a cool story.

[00:14:45] Ryan Mellon: We'll have to get her on the podcast.

[00:14:47] Dat: yeah, yeah, I'll let her know the

[00:14:49] Ryan Mellon: ~Um, so like, could you describe like a typical work day, like for you, um, traveling, I guess, um, I guess we already hit on that, but like, ~do you have a, a routine like that you like to, to,~ um,~ to work with?

[00:14:55] Dat: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. So I, I'm like, I'm kind of a morning person, so I get up about [00:15:00] probably like six 30 and then I'll probably start working around seven if I don't have any meetings, if I have meetings or customer meetings, then I'll be up earlier and I kind of just like shift that schedule. ~Um, ~a bit forward.

[00:15:10] Dat: ~Um, ~yeah. So what that looks like is, you know, jump on calls, jump on meetings,~ um,~ you know, reply back to emails and talk to clients and stuff like that, but what we do that for the first hour of the day, then I'll go get my coffee, come back to my room. I found that one of the hacks or tips for me is like, I have a lot of energy in the morning, just being like such a, you know, starting my day, I don't really have anyone to talk to.

[00:15:31] Dat: So it's also when I do my best work. So for the most part, the first three, four hours of the day. Got my coffee and I kind of cooked up in my room, do all my work. And then when I'm kind of done with that, I'll either go to a cafe, do a bit more work, or like go out to like the coworking,~ uh,~ a coworking space where I can have, you know, other people around me and, you know, maybe, you know, start talking to people and then, you know, go out for lunch and stuff like that.

[00:15:52] Dat: And, you know, get to know more people and stuff, which is really, really cool. Yeah.

[00:15:56] Ryan Mellon: That's awesome. So the place you're in is a co living space, so you're [00:16:00] living there and it has a co working, right?

[00:16:02] Dat: Yeah, that's correct. Yes. We've all got our own private rooms and stuff like that. So, but then downstairs you've got like a big, you know, desk and screens and all that stuff like that. They've even got an onsite cafe with some food, which is really cool. ~Um, ~one of the really cool things here is they, we've got other, you know, nomads kind of living here as well.

[00:16:19] Dat: ~Um, ~and every Monday, what they do is they do like a bit of a family meeting where, you know, whoever's coming through, go around the table, introduce yourself. So it's like, Hey guys, my name is Dat, I'm from Australia. ~Um, ~I'm a nomad, you know, I want to. You know, so I'm going to go down to the museum down the road.

[00:16:33] Dat: Who wants to come with me on a Wednesday at like, I'm in my, three clock or something like that. And it's kind of cool to bring people together, or, you know, someone might want to go to like the sauna or something like that. So, you know, you kind of get people talking and interacting with each other and making friends that way.

[00:16:47] Dat: And then like naturally. You just have like little groups kind of break out and do little things and stuff like that. So really I would recommend any new nomads kind of, you know, wanting to venture out there cause it is a big scary thing to, you know, [00:17:00] try a co working co living space because everything's there for you, you know, ~um, ~that they help you make friends, they bring you together and it's just a, it's just a good experience.

[00:17:08] Dat: Yeah. From, from, from my experience. Yeah.

[00:17:10] Ryan Mellon: It's like nomading light, right? You can, you can start off and you, you get some support and like, you get to meet other nomads right away. And I feel like it's a really good place to start. Like when I started. Co living's weren't really a thing back then, so like, ~um, ~I wish they were, you know, I used to stay in hostels and stuff, and that was like my best way of, my best way of meeting other travelers and stuff, but also not the best environment for working or anything, cause you know, a lot of them's a lot of partying going on, it's a younger, a younger crowd, you know, it's like, it's, it's not ideal, you know, and so, yeah.

[00:17:51] Ryan Mellon: Awesome. So do you tend to travel solo or do you travel with a partner, friends, family?

[00:17:59] Dat: mostly [00:18:00] solo. I have like, if I meet someone and like, we, I've traveled with people in the past before and gone to different,~ um,~ countries and stuff like that. But the group here at the moment they're talking about, so like visa runs, I'm sure everyone on your podcast will know what they are, you know, we can only stay in countries for a certain amount of time.

[00:18:17] Dat: ~Um. ~The group here is about all about leaving in the next couple of months or so. And we're talking about, Hey, let's, let's all meet up in a Hoi An. Cause,~ um,~ that's getting away from burning season as well. So just for context in, in, in, in Chiang Mai, there's like three months of the year where they start to burn all the crops and it gets really, really smoky here and it's really,~ um,~ You just can't breathe.

[00:18:36] Dat: Their quality is pretty bad. So a lot of people will like migrate over to Vietnam or Bali or stuff like that. So, ~um, ~yeah, but I think the plan after this is to go to Vietnam and spend a month or there too. So I guess that kind of counts as traveling with people because, you know, you've met them and it's like, Hey, let's go and stay together in this place.

[00:18:53] Dat: And, you know, for a month or two and then, you know, wherever people go afterwards. ~Um, ~yeah.

[00:18:58] Ryan Mellon: Yeah, I like that. Yeah. And [00:19:00] it's important to, um, always Google like, like you said, you know, it's burning seasons for two or three months in your destination and Chiang Mai is such a huge place for digital nomads to be. So like, if you're thinking about going January, February, March, like you should always be Googling the weather, just making sure like.

[00:19:19] Ryan Mellon: What the conditions are like in your destination when you go so that you don't show up and yeah, it is burning season cause so they burn the crop. So it gets the fields ready for the next year. Right.

[00:19:32] Dat: Yeah, that's correct. Yeah. Yeah. And then Chiang Mai is encompassed by like. ~Uh, ~a couple of mountains as well. So it just keeps all the smoke inside. ~Uh, ~then yeah, that's just bad.

[00:19:41] Ryan Mellon: yeah, you're like working and living in a volcano or something. So.

[00:19:46] Dat: You got the air purifier next to you. It's like, Oh my God, I can't breathe.

[00:19:50] Ryan Mellon: It's not ideal. It's not what you want. So yeah, it's important to know these things and it's, it's, it's something that's easy, like if you don't [00:20:00] do your research before you go to just show up and that's the situation and the other thing that you. You talked about was visa run and I don't I'm not sure that we actually have talked about that much on the show yet So if you're working on a tourist visa and you need to reset it a lot of times if you keep You usually have the option to do maybe like a one time extension You need to go to the immigration office or go online pay a fee Get an extension.

[00:20:28] Ryan Mellon: But the other way around that is to just leave the country for a day, or sometimes it could be a couple hours, depending on the country. You just Google it, see what the rules are. You come back and it resets your visa. So, ~um, ~I think that's good for people to know, especially for those folks that are traveling on tourist visas, because I think I 70 percent of digital nomads are.

[00:20:53] Ryan Mellon: Traveling on tourist visas. So,~ uh, ~yeah, and, and especially in Asia, like a visa run could be super [00:21:00] cheap, like, you know, a hundred dollar flight to, you know, from Bali to Kuala Lumpur or something. And then you just spend the weekend there and a new city and a new country and check it out and then head, head back to wherever you were.

[00:21:13] Ryan Mellon: ~So, yeah. Uh, how would you, um. What,~ so like if someone ~was going to be a digital nomad, ~wants to be a digital nomad and they're like interested in the lifestyle, like what, what advice would you have for them?

[00:21:22] Dat: Yeah, that's a good question. I I'd say firstly check with your company. Like, ~um, ~I think a lot of companies now are pretty open minded to you working overseas. ~Um, ~even the, the big corporations that I work for back, back in the day, they did have like, you know, take four weeks off and you get another four weeks,~ um,~ where you can work anywhere around the world.

[00:21:40] Dat: So maybe float the idea with, ~um. ~You know, your manager's like, Hey, I'm thinking about visiting, you know, X country and, you know, maybe working like a week there or two kind of things. Like, you know, we've talked about like nomading light. So see if it actually, you can do it. Like it, it is, it's, it, it's got its own challenges as well.

[00:21:58] Dat: Working over overseas in a [00:22:00] place that you haven't been before, you know, managing his climate and schedules. But,~ uh,~ I would say, you know, just. Try it out, you know, tack on a week extra onto your, your existing holiday destination or location, whatever. ~Um, ~and then see how that goes. And then if it's really for you, then, you know, you should start exploring like how you can make this a full time gig and,~ um,~ kind of going from there.

[00:22:19] Dat: You know, there's so much resources out there as well. And, you know, Ryan's here to help too.

[00:22:22] Ryan Mellon: Yeah, yeah, of course. No, I,~ uh,~ I always tell people that's like a good way to just test it out. Workcation, you know, take a regular week off. Add the week on just like you said and you know, do nothing for a week. So you actually get your vacation in and then try to work and just see like if it works for you or if you're too distracted by the pool and margaritas and you just can't do it, you know, it's not for everyone.

[00:22:47] Dat: Yeah, it is it, yeah, yeah,

[00:22:49] Ryan Mellon: so,

[00:22:49] Dat: looks really glamorous and great on, you know, on Instagram and all the photos you print, but like, Hey, you know, there's, there's, there's challenges of working overseas, like, Hey, where am I going to go next? Like we talked about the visa runs, [00:23:00] like, Hey, that's a real, like.

[00:23:01] Dat: Problem. Yeah. You can get in a lot of trouble overseas outside of your home country. And like, Hey, that's a, you know, you're breaking breaking laws. If you, you know, overstay,~ uh,~ whatnot kind of thing. So there's, there's a lot of things to consider and,~ um,~ I encourage everyone to kind of like do their research and make sure that you can do a work there.

[00:23:17] Ryan Mellon: Yeah, that is really,~ uh,~ important thing to bring up too, just being mindful of how long you're supposed to be there. Like, I've overstayed my visa in Thailand and Bali, and by accident, by accident both times, by one, by, well, yeah,

[00:23:36] Dat: They don't make it clear in the passport stance. I'll have to give

[00:23:39] Ryan Mellon: oh no, no, you have to do, You have to do the math yourself and like I I didn't count the day I arrived because I arrived at like 10 p.

[00:23:47] Ryan Mellon: m so I just like Counted the next day

[00:23:51] Dat: Yeah. I did

[00:23:52] Ryan Mellon: And they, they did different math and they were not happy that I,~ uh,~ I was one day over [00:24:00] and yeah, they escorted me to the ATM and it was like,~ uh,~ it was like 70 us dollars, like a million rupiah,~ um,~ fine. And I got a, like a super stern talking to and the immigration office.

[00:24:12] Ryan Mellon: And then in Thailand, it was more like. It's been four days, like, ~um, ~we need five dollars, like, don't do this again, and it was, and it was just done, done, and like, I was like, alright, and I was like, is it okay if I come back, and they're like, yeah, so I'm like, alright, well, I don't want to get banned from the country, but, it's,~ uh,~ you don't want to get in trouble, so, yeah, you do need to pay attention to that, that's a very good,~ Uh,~ thing to bring up.

[00:24:39] Ryan Mellon: So, how do you manage, like, personal relationships on the road? Like, friends and family back home. Like, is that a challenge, keeping connected with, with folks?

[00:24:50] Dat: Not so much for me, Ryan. I found that being on the road, I've, uh, been able to keep in contact with friends and family more so than back home, I feel like, you know, [00:25:00] back home, you know, in Melbourne, similar to any other Western country, like, you know, California, New York, London, it's, you know, grind, grind, grind, you know, work nine to five, go home.

[00:25:10] Dat: Go to the gym, have dinner, and then, you know, go to bed. So you, you don't really have a lot of time to like catch up with people, but I found that, you know, being here, I'm talking to my sisters and my mom and my friends so much more often. Cause they're just like, Hey, super curious. Like, what are you doing today?

[00:25:25] Dat: Like, are you working? Are you not working? What you taking a day off? What are you, what are you doing? So I found that, you know, we're connecting on like, you know, Facebook or WhatsApp, we're just jumping on the FaceTime a lot more often and just having no deep. Conversations of like, Hey, what's that? What's going on in your life?

[00:25:40] Dat: ~Um, ~and friends as well. Cause they're all really curious to see what you're doing. And, you know, if you're posting a photo on Instagram, they were like, Oh, that's so cool, let's,~ um,~ have a chat kind of thing. So for me personally, I found that I, it's, it's been really good to be outside the country. I think it's a part of like, they probably just miss me.

[00:25:55] Dat: Right. It's like, Oh, you're not here anymore. You're not easy accessible to chat to. So [00:26:00] like, ~um, ~now that you're over there, let's, let's hit him up kind of thing. So for me, it's been, it's been good.

[00:26:04] Ryan Mellon: Yeah. I gotcha. Awesome. Do you ever have, uh, like, friends or family fly in to where you're at and hang out?

[00:26:11] Dat: No, not yet. Just, ~um. Um, ~just like nomad friends, I feel like every, I probably see them more often than like friends and family. Yeah. So like, because I haven't really been based myself out of a place for long enough, that hasn't been the case, but now I'm planning to stay in Chiang Mai for, you know, probably like six to eight months with the, the, the DTV visa.

[00:26:30] Dat: ~Um, ~so just for your listeners that,~ uh,~ Thailand's got like a, a bit of a, like a digital nomad visa. ~Um, ~it's called the destination. Visa allows you to stay in the country for like 180 days,~ um,~ for five years. ~Um, ~and then there's like some assets that you need to prove. I think it was like 500, 000 baht and then 10, 000 us, and just proof that you won't work here.

[00:26:51] Dat: Like you can't do any sort of work within Thailand for like working in a Thai company. But if you have a remote job, they're happy for you to be [00:27:00] here,~ um,~ and, and, and just stay here. So that kind of removes some of the visa run issues as well. So that's something,~ um,~ I've got now and that's a plan to make this place my home for the next six to eight months.

[00:27:10] Dat: And then, you know, kind of escape like burning season and then, you know, see family and stuff like that. So what would they call like slow, slow nomading or something like

[00:27:18] Ryan Mellon: Slow mad.

[00:27:19] Dat: mad. Yeah. So that's kind of like my plan to make Chiang Mai a bit of a second home.

[00:27:24] Ryan Mellon: Nice. Okay. Yeah. And I'm kind of on the same deal. Like, you know, when I first started out, I think I did eight countries in six months. And like, it's a, it's a bit of a whirlwind, you know, and you're always moving and there's a lot of stress involved with new places and new languages and new cultures and new this, that, and planes and working in the airport.

[00:27:44] Ryan Mellon: And like the, the more I've nomad it, the, Like the slower I've gotten, right? So now I have the one year visa in Bali and it's the digital nomad E33G visa and it's multiple [00:28:00] entries so I can. If I want to jump out to Singapore or the Philippines or to Thailand for a week or a weekend I can go and come back and I just go right through all they have automated immigration now So even when I got here, I just went through like the automated gates and scan my passport and that was it It's like they've made it so easy.

[00:28:22] Ryan Mellon: It's It's amazing

[00:28:25] Dat: Yeah. I, I echo you. I think, like I said, last year I spent like just bouncing around so many different countries and it just gets a lot, right? You, you, it's hard to kind of get into a routine, you know, work starts to get impacted as well. If you're traveling too much, it's hard to kind of work because, you know, like.

[00:28:40] Dat: Like me, I was using my weekends to go to my next destination. And if you're traveling really, really far, like six, eight hours away, you know, fly in and then, you know, wake up again, Monday morning and start working again, it's like, Oh gosh, I haven't even had time to like recuperate from all the travel that I've done.

[00:28:55] Dat: And now I've got to like, you know, pick up a court phone and talk to customers. And they're like, why do you look so [00:29:00] tired? I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about. So yeah, on the slowmading journey as well. Same as you Ryan.

[00:29:06] Ryan Mellon: Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think the more, more you do it, it just makes more sense and you get to also enjoy the place that you're in. Like you get to know it deeper and make those connections and learn the culture better and, and really kind of be a part of the community instead of just a tourist who's passing through.

[00:29:25] Ryan Mellon: Right.

[00:29:26] Dat: Yeah, 100 percent yeah.

[00:29:28] Ryan Mellon: So. What would you say,~ um,~ do you have out of all your travel experiences? Give me one of your top five experiences that you've had during your travels. ~If you could tell me about maybe like, uh, adventure or, um, A tour or a place you've seen or experience that you've had.~

[00:29:39] Dat: Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. That's, this is a really good one. Good question. I love it. Cause I got an answer. Right. ~Um, ~so yeah, I went to Sri Lanka with a friend and I like had. No intention of kind of going there. It was like, Hey, let's do a couple, like a month there or so. So we went down to Sri Lanka and I was like, Oh, okay.

[00:29:53] Dat: Down to this, like found a co working co living community down there. And I was like, Oh, this is really cool. There's like [00:30:00] surfing down there. I was like, always wanted to learn how to surf, never really had the opportunity. So like, although I am from Australia, Melbourne is very cold. Just for your listeners out there, like Sydney and Brisbane is where people you're thinking of your typical surface and stuff like that.

[00:30:13] Dat: ~Um, ~but yeah, like I. Join one of those surf camps, surf schools there. And it absolutely just fell in love. And, you know, it's like the easiest place to learn how to surf. So, ~um, ~waves are really easy and, um, yeah, it's just picked up a lifetime hobby now, I guess. So, you know, every time I. Make my way back to Melbourne.

[00:30:30] Dat: I have to stop by in Bali just so I can get some waves in before I go back home, which is really good. But,~ um,~ yeah, I think, you know, when you travel, you just, you're open to more experiences and trying new things. And I think that the message here is like, Hey, you never know what cool thing you're going to pick up.

[00:30:46] Dat: And for me, it was surfing while being in Sri Lanka and like no manning there. And it was the best thing ever for me.

[00:30:52] Ryan Mellon: I love that. And in Southeast Asia, there's a million places to surf, right? You just need to be somewhere near a beach and you can always [00:31:00] rent a board anywhere. ~Um, ~do you travel with a board?

[00:31:03] Dat: Oh God, no, that, that'd be the, I'd travel light. I'd probably have one suitcase and that's about it. And if I had to carry more, the, oh gosh, I'd lose everything.

[00:31:11] Ryan Mellon: Yeah. I do just carry ons as well, but it's always something that like. You think about because I do see people in the airport with these giant boards and I can't imagine like dealing with that But like all the surf spots you can get a board for you know, a couple couple dollars a day and

[00:31:29] Dat: it's too easy. Oh,

[00:31:34] Ryan Mellon: ~uh, ~I think,~ uh,~ in Byron Bay when I was in Australia, I took some surf lessons and like the very next day,~ uh,~ that very same beach, like, ~uh, ~a shark,~ um,~ took, took a chunk out of one of the surfers there and I was like, yeah, I think I'm good

[00:31:47] Dat: I'm done yet. You know what? I'm good. I don't want to surf anymore.

[00:31:50] Ryan Mellon: I mean, it was already hard enough, but like, I was just exhausted from the day, but after the shark thing, I was like, I don't know, man, I just,

[00:31:58] Dat: This is not for me. Yeah. It's [00:32:00] too much paddling. Yeah. I'd rather watch people surf. It's way

[00:32:02] Ryan Mellon: Yeah, I'll have like a beer on the beach and I'll watch the surfers and like, it's a lot of entertainment and there's no sharks,

[00:32:12] Dat: Yeah. And in Bali, there's great, great spots for that. I

[00:32:15] Ryan Mellon: Oh yeah.

[00:32:16] Dat: yeah, you can see that anywhere. Yeah.

[00:32:18] Ryan Mellon: Oh yeah, like, the waves are pretty gnarly here, like, just for swimming, you know, you gotta be careful. But yeah, Gray Place, if you love to surf, Bali is one of the best spots, for sure.

[00:32:30] Ryan Mellon: ~So tell me what's one place that's underrated, in your opinion.~

[00:32:30] Dat: ~Ooh, underrated. Um, I think I haven't, I don't really have an answer for that one. I'm right. I'm right. Yeah.~

[00:32:30] Ryan Mellon: ~No worries, if you think of it later, we'll~

[00:32:30] Dat: ~Yeah. Maybe come back to that one. Yeah. Right. Yeah.~

[00:32:30] Ryan Mellon: ~Um, ~so in general, how would you say,~ um,~ the cost of living, uh, where you are now versus the cost of living at home? Like, how is it a significant difference? Are you living, are you able to make your money go farther? ~Like, tell me a little bit about that.~

[00:32:44] Dat: Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah, definitely. Like I'm like, I'm saving money living here to be like, to be completely honest. ~Um, ~the rent here is like so cheap. So for example, moving out to my own apartment,~ um,~ here in Chiang Mai,~ uh,~ a place called Neiman. So it's like a very tourist, not touristy, but like up [00:33:00] and coming like fan, like one of the abugier areas.

[00:33:02] Dat: ~Um, ~and for something like that, I've got a studio apartment where I'm paying about, uh, so bed, obviously couch, you know, standing desk screen, all that jazz that like supports digital nomads and stuff like that for that I'm paying about 500 us. Per month. ~Um, ~so that's like really, really cheap. Yeah. So back home I would be paying double for, for like, ~um, ~for a room we shared with other people and stuff like that.

[00:33:24] Dat: So on top of that, you get to save money whilst living at this side of the world too, which is, which is amazing. Like I know we have it really good. Yeah.

[00:33:31] Ryan Mellon: That's awesome. Outside of just like rent and stuff, like eating, transportation, all that's pretty much probably a big difference from Melbourne as well, yeah. Yeah,

[00:33:44] Dat: like local food, you're spending like maybe like a couple dollars eating what the Thai people are eating. And I, and I love Thai food. Like I love spicy food. So for me, I'm kind of always gravitating to that. ~Um, ~I'm at the point where I, if I go to a cafe like this morning, I got like, I got like fancy bacon and eggs and I paid like.

[00:33:59] Dat: It [00:34:00] was like 15 USD and like, Oh wow, that's really expensive. What am I doing? I can go eat like what the locals are eating. But like, you know, sometimes you just like miss that food, right? You go, Hey, I want to kind of spoil myself for a bit. And it's, it's the holiday season. Yeah.

[00:34:13] Ryan Mellon: Yeah, no, sometimes you hit a wall, like with the local food. Like, I love, I love a lot of food, especially here in Bali. But then I'm like, I just, like you said, I need eggs and bacon, like American breakfast, or like, I need some good like pizza or just something, you know, even if it's sometimes it's McDonald's, unfortunately, you know, I don't normally eat that at home, but like I'm here and I'm like.

[00:34:40] Ryan Mellon: A Big Mac just sounds amazing,

[00:34:42] Dat: Hey, and it's consistent, right? Like, you know, Big Mac in America, Big Mac in, you know, Thailand or Bali. It's exactly the same. You know what you're getting. And I think that's, that's why I'm the same. I go through it all the time.

[00:34:52] Ryan Mellon: it happens, yeah man, like, I feel like I will, I do it actually more out of country than at home, because at home I have other choices, and there's [00:35:00] like. Healthier shit to eat. So,

[00:35:01] Dat: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I feel you in that one.

[00:35:04] Ryan Mellon: ~so what about, um,~ do you have like a biggest lesson learned or like biggest mistake that you've made while being a digital nomad?

[00:35:13] Dat: Biggest mistake and biggest lesson learned. ~Um, ~I mean, like, I think, you know, trying to fit so many countries in one stint was a bit of a learning. I think now, you know, you, you have to do that. I think every nomad that starts out is going to do that. Right. It's like, okay, I want to go to as many countries as I can, or it just be here, here, here, here, here.

[00:35:35] Dat: But like, Hey, you learn from those mistakes. And I do not regret that because I saw some really cool places and made some really, really good friends. So that's like a tick for me. ~Um, ~Learning wise, I think don't, you don't need to plan too much to, to be honest, like just go to a place and if you're, you know, making this a long term thing, you'll see those sites or like do those things.

[00:35:55] Dat: ~Um, ~and just don't put that pressure on yourself of like, cause you already, it's already tough enough. Like, you know, [00:36:00] looking at visas, looking at flights, looking at hotels, just take it a bit easy and just kind of go with the flow. Like it's things cause for me, I found that just. Work out if I stress less about those things.

[00:36:11] Dat: ~Um, ~and, and it makes your trip a lot better. Cause then you just like, you're more relaxed as well. Like if you're over planning stuff, it just, you know, takes away from enjoying like, Oh my God, I'm in another country right now. Like, Hey, there's like a mountain there, but I'm thinking about, Oh my God, where am I going next?

[00:36:24] Dat: Or like, Hey, there's the beach there. Why don't I just take that in and actually soak it up? Yeah.

[00:36:29] Ryan Mellon: Yeah, I think that's a really good point. And,~ um,~ for me, like I'm a planner. I've always been a planner. I'm a planner in my business. I'm a planner in my work, but,~ um,~ after reading so many travel bloggers and watching YouTube bloggers and. People that have been out traveling forever, they all say, like, no plan is the best plan, right?

[00:36:50] Ryan Mellon: Just show up and figure it out because you're gonna run into people and they're gonna tell you about some amazing place That's that they just came from and that you have [00:37:00] to check out But like if you already have plans and you had hotels booked and you know Domestic flights or trains or you know, you got to be here on this date in this state it takes all of the ~Uh, ~ability to just kind of on the fly,~ um,~ do something amazing and, and it reduces your opportunities.

[00:37:21] Ryan Mellon: So, ~um, ~not planning is definitely the way to go for sure.

[00:37:26] Dat: to be spontaneous. Like, yeah, that's still travel is about, you know, just do stuff that you don't normally do back home. So you look, everyone plans back home. Just stay home then.

[00:37:35] Ryan Mellon: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. It's, ~um. ~It's gonna work out, like, you're always gonna have a place to stay. It, you're always gonna figure out how to get to the next place. It's like, you know, it's pretty easy, so. Yeah. Well, cool. So, wrapping up here, I got a couple rapid fire questions, and then we'll be pretty much done.

[00:37:57] Ryan Mellon: So, what is one item that you would [00:38:00] never travel without, and that's not your laptop or your phone?

[00:38:03] Dat: Yeah. ~Uh, ~for me, it's probably my journal. Like I. I get a lot of thoughts and like a lot of reflection when I'm on the road. So I love to kind of have pen and paper to write that stuff down separate from the phone, you know, gone, you know, gone to cafe, writing stuff down and capturing that and then like reflecting.

[00:38:18] Dat: So I have like journals for most countries that I've been to, and I was like, love kind of flipping back and going, Oh, cool. This is what I was feeling and thinking. That's really interesting. And it kind of shows that growth as a, as a, as a person as well. So I love having those around.

[00:38:32] Ryan Mellon: Awesome. So is that like a, you do that in your routine routine, like a daily thing?

[00:38:37] Dat: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if I'm going out,~ um,~ to a cafe and I feel something like I, it's like a pocket journal, so I feel like small, small ones. So I'll carry that in like my, my back pocket or say if I, something kind of sparks, Oh, it's got a thought sparks. I'll write that down, capture where I'm at the date and then write those things down to you.

[00:38:55] Ryan Mellon: that's awesome. Yeah. And it's always good looking back on that stuff. Like it [00:39:00] takes you back to the day, like when you look back

[00:39:02] Dat: Yeah. Yeah. And it's like a really cool thing to kind of reflect back on as well. Yeah.

[00:39:06] Ryan Mellon: Yeah. Love it. What,~ uh,~ favorite coworking space that you discovered and where?

[00:39:11] Dat: Oh, I think I've been, it has to be old Chiang Mai, old Ping river, the place I'm here at now, and like, just shout out to like John, who's the, he, you know, built this place and found this place, got two locations. ~Um, ~I think they just do a really good job at just bringing people together. Like I mentioned, the family meetings and like, yeah, he loves people and he loves kind of like.

[00:39:30] Dat: Talking to everyone. So it makes you feel very, very welcome. So I would have to say the best one that I've seen so far. And I've been to a couple would be have to be like, Oh, yeah.

[00:39:40] Ryan Mellon: Alt

[00:39:41] Dat: A L T yeah.

[00:39:43] Ryan Mellon: Ping

[00:39:44] Dat: Oh, ping river and check an old chain Y. So he's got two

[00:39:46] Ryan Mellon: Alt Ping River in Chiang Mai. Okay, nice. Okay, and Tell me a place in your opinion that has the best food

[00:39:56] Dat: Oh, I feel like I'm so biased right now. I keep saying Thailand, [00:40:00] Thailand, cause I really like this place, but like, I think Thai food is just great. You know, you got spicy, you got sweet, you got sour, you got a bit of everything, you know, Northern Thai has got like a dish called Khao Soi, which is like. ~Um, ~kind of like a laksa base, but like their own interpretation of it.

[00:40:14] Dat: It's got like, you know, chicken and then like a crispy kind of noodles on top. ~Um, ~they also like, you can get like lots of skewers and meats around here or everywhere. So I love like variety going down to a market and going, Oh, that looks interesting. Let's try eating that. ~Um, ~and then Thailand kind of.

[00:40:28] Dat: Ticks that box for me. ~Um, ~but also Taiwan has that as well. So they're pretty, they've got the similar concept. Like you just walk down the streets and it's just like food everywhere. And it's like, Ooh, what do I, what do I, what do I feel like today? What's, what's going to be good. So those two places would be good for best food for me.

[00:40:42] Dat: Yeah.

[00:40:44] Ryan Mellon: of those. I've been to Taiwan and Thailand and the street foods amazing. There's so much diversity and like good stuff cooking up everywhere. It's just like, just follow your nose and you're going to find good food.

[00:40:56] Dat: You don't know what you're going to get. Yeah.

[00:40:58] Ryan Mellon: Absolutely. Well, cool. [00:41:00] Well, thank you so much for taking the time out and I really appreciate it. ~Uh, where can people find you online?~

[00:41:03] Dat: ~Uh, yeah, you can find me on like Instagram or LinkedIn, um, as well. So I think my Instagram is like that tie underscore. Yeah.~

[00:41:03] Ryan Mellon: ~Okay, cool and we can add that in the show notes Yeah, I I appreciate you taking out the time today, and I hope you have an amazing day~

[00:41:03] Dat: Thanks Ryan. Thanks for having me on.

[00:41:05] Ryan Mellon: All right, buddy. See ya

[00:41:06] Dat: Yeah.