HoneyTrek’s $50 a Day Travel Strategy That Funded a Life of Sustainable Adventure to 84 Countries and Counting with Mike & Anne Howard | EP 22

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What skills from your previous career can you leverage to create a sustainable nomadic lifestyle?

Ryan is joined by the founders of HoneyTrek https://www.honeytrek.com/, a travel brand founded by Mike and Anne Howard. They left their New York jobs for what was supposed to be a year-long adventure that turned into 13 years. Seven continents and 84 countries later, they've built a successful location-independent business without ever returning to a permanent home.

Mike and Anne reveal how they've managed to sustain their nomadic lifestyle while building wealth and pursuing their passions. Honest advice about maintaining work-life balance on the road, fostering meaningful connections across cultures, and avoiding common mistakes new nomads make.

Chapters:
00:07:54 - The moment they almost quit nomad life
00:22:56 - How they score luxury stays for free
00:33:37 - A daily routine that keeps them going
00:41:44 - Most unforgettable travel experience
00:54:17 - The one travel tool everyone needs

Discover practical strategies for long-term travel so you won’t go broke. From house sitting to avoid accommodation costs to scoring luxury experiences at bargain prices, Mike and Anne share their hard-earned wisdom on how to live rich on $50 a day.

If you've been dreaming of breaking free from the conventional path but aren't sure where to start, this conversation will give you the inspiration and practical tools to take that first step toward location independence.

Listen and learn how they've leveraged their skills as writers and photographers to build Honey Trek, write books for National Geographic, and consult with glamping businesses worldwide.

Connect with the Anne and Mike: https://linktr.ee/honeytrek

MORE FROM RYAN MELLON

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DISCLAIMER:
Listening to stories of beachside zoom calls, mountainside work views, and island-hopping entrepreneurs may cause severe wanderlust and an irresistible urge to turn your laptop into a passport to freedom. Side effects include daydreaming about tropical coworking spaces, working with Ryan to learn how you can start working and traveling and buying a one-way ticket to Bali. Get ready to start living your dream life today!

Chapters

• 7:54 The moment they almost quit nomad life
• 22:56 How they score luxury stays for free
• 33:37 A daily routine that keeps them going
• 41:44 Most unforgettable travel experiences
• 54:17 The one travel tool everyone needs

Transcript

[00:00:00] Ryan Mellon: What if you could travel the world for over a decade while building a thriving business? Today I sit down with Mike and Anne Howard, founders of Honey Trek, who have explored 84 countries since 2012 without a permanent home. Along the way, they've written books for National Geographic. Consulted for glamping destinations worldwide and mastered the art of slow sustainable travel.
~ ~

[00:00:21] Ryan Mellon: Mike and Anne share how they lived on the road for over a decade without breaking their budget. Revealing practical tips on finding affordable accommodations, making local connections, and building a location independent career that funds their ventures. Stick around until the end and learn how they've traveled without ever buying a single plastic water bottle, saving them thousands of dollars while helping protect the planet.


[00:00:44] Ryan Mellon: ~Hey guys. Welcome to another episode of Digital Nomad Nation. ~ [00:01:00] ~Today I have Mike and Anne Howard.~ Welcome, Mike and Anne.

[00:01:50] Anne Howard: Hey, good to be here. Yeah, thanks for having us on.

[00:01:52] Ryan Mellon: I saw that you were just at the Famous Tree Hotel in Sweden. Tell me about that.

[00:01:57] Anne Howard: Yeah, we're on a huge worldwide glamping journey, [00:02:00] which we'll get into later, but the tree hotel, it is. In Lapland the way north of Sweden and they got the best Scandinavian architects to each design their own dream tree house. And we stayed in one that was actually made of 300 bird houses. So you're like looking out your window as if you were a bird living in a nest and seeing the species like come to your to your bedside.

[00:02:25] Anne Howard: And they also had glass ceilings, glass floors, had its own sauna. Snows right out the door, saw reindeer, Northern lights. It was really magical.


[00:02:33] Ryan Mellon: That's awesome. Yeah, the photos looked amazing. It looked like it was snowing Then as well.

[00:02:37] Anne Howard: Oh yeah, it's been actually March and Lapland is perfect. It's not too freezing, but it's still plenty of snow to play in without, you know, neat. Going into like total frigid conditions. 

[00:02:47] Mike Howard: Still get the Northern lights, but the animals are starting to come out a little bit. It was, it was cool. And the reindeer are like wild up there.

[00:02:53] Mike Howard: I mean, they, they all have. AAMI herder, but they just roam for days on end and then he'll go and meet up with them [00:03:00] and he lives with them in the forest. So we had a, a herd,~ uh,~ that kind of roams nearby a lot, and they roam right through camp. So we were hanging out with reindeer wild, kind of wild ish reindeer.

[00:03:09] Mike Howard: It was, it was 

[00:03:09] Anne Howard: cool.

[00:03:10] Ryan Mellon: Yeah. Looked like a very cool adventure. One of many. So you guys have been on the road since 2012, is that right?

[00:03:18] Anne Howard: Yeah, 

[00:03:19] Mike Howard: January 22nd was the day we left New York on what was gonna be a one year honeymoon. We were gonna go around the world, see all the places we had on our bucket list, come back to New York, jump back into the matrix. Move to the suburbs, whatever, make babies and, and do whatever we were told or thought was like the normal way.

[00:03:40] Mike Howard: But then we just fell in love with being on the road with doing storytelling through Honey Trek, which is our website and Instagram you mentioned earlier. and being a writer, just really loved telling those stories. Me as a photographer, loved capturing all these things, and we just loved all the people we met.

[00:03:58] Mike Howard: And one year has now [00:04:00] turned into this, January was 13 full years without a house or an 

[00:04:04] Anne Howard: apartment for even a single day.

[00:04:05] Ryan Mellon: Wow, that's amazing. So, ~I mean, did you guys have a,~ were you guys leaving a house or apartment? I guess? Well, since you were ready to go on a one year road trip, you had prepared to not have anything at home, right.

[00:04:17] Anne Howard: ~Uh, ~we, we planned a very specific like 18 month lease 'cause we're so confident. Like we liked our life in New York. We had good jobs, we had good community like. There was no reason not to come back. We thought that's like, this was just like our, our little honeymoon break in epic adventure together. But of course we would just get corporate jobs again.

[00:04:36] Anne Howard: ~Um, ~and yeah, to, I, we parent on our stuff tremendously. Got a small storage unit rented out of the apartment. Still very glad today that is like the biggest asset we have and someone who's been paying down our mortgage for 13 years and it's almost done. it's a big nomad tip 

[00:04:50] Mike Howard: if you can afford to buy a place before.

[00:04:53] Mike Howard: You become a nomad, even if it's only gonna be a year or two that you wanna be on the road, somebody will work a full-time [00:05:00] job in your home city, whether that's New York or you know, some rural town in Oklahoma. You buy a place, someone else will rent it, and every year you're on the road. You're earning that.

[00:05:11] Mike Howard: Whatever that is. 20, 30, $50,000 a year in equity in a house. You're living on the road. You've obviously got your costs on the road, but you're building equity at home without having to pay your own rent. So what we thought when we left was gonna be a burden, or maybe we should sell it. Now it's we, we have a 14, 15 year mortgage, so we've only got one and a half years left on our mortgage that we have only paid like BA basically a year into until someone else took it over.

[00:05:37] Anne Howard: Yeah, and mentally it's sort of a rock, even though we don't use it as a base in any way. It sort of feels like. You know, uh, you can always come back there if you want. We could come back. It's sort of like we're very footloose, fancy free, but knowing we have that is very comforting. ~Um, ~but yes, 'cause we thought it was gonna be a year.

[00:05:52] Anne Howard: I stored my shampoo, we stored vitamins. I mean, I don't even know what kind of science experiment lives in that storage unit now, but, and every time I go back to it, [00:06:00] which is like maybe once a year, I'm like,~ uh,~ it could have literally gotten rid of all of it. So we've become such minimalist that I question anything we once own beyond like a few family heirlooms and photographs.

[00:06:11] Ryan Mellon: I'm a very big on minimalism myself and it's been big, huge part of my journey. ~Um, ~and when I'm home, I live on my sailboat, so it's not a lot of room for a lot of things. I'm not going out and buying big screen TVs and couches because there's no room for any of that stuff.

[00:06:28] Mike Howard: Saves you money for future travel 'cause you're not buying all these extra pairs of shoes or flat screen TVs or new computer monitors. And it also makes you less, less of a feeling like you need to stay home to enjoy those toys and ATVs and new cars you've bought. 'cause you're like, Hey, being on the road is more fun anyway, so let me not have something tethering me at home.

[00:06:50] Anne Howard: ~Um, ~yeah, a lot of pros.

[00:06:51] Ryan Mellon: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. ~Um, ~so tell us about ~pre, uh, ~pre-travel. So like what were you guys doing work-wise? ~Um, ~was it a [00:07:00] typical nine to five grind, or a nine to nine grind, or like what did life look like before you guys got married and decided to go on this road trip?

[00:07:10] Anne Howard: I did always wanna be a writer, like my first, you know, job intern, like anything was in magazines. So finding a career in writing, being an English major, like that was the plan. And moved to New York for that reason. Worked for InStyle Magazine and then kind of got into home, home design magazines, house speed, al decor.

[00:07:28] Anne Howard: So with the route of like writer to executive editor. Had that more formal training in publishing, which didn't even really think about it with the blog, was like, I didn't think the blog would become a career, but we were well positioned to make it a career. 'cause you had a very entrepreneurial background in creative background marketing, sales.

[00:07:45] Mike Howard: Yeah. I've been an entrepreneur all my life. I've never had a W2 from a company ever. ~Um, ~so entrepreneurial is like what my dad was and it's in my blood and just where I find a lot of joy and flexibility. So I ran a startup that I started at [00:08:00] Carnegie Mellon with a few buddies from my freshman year.

[00:08:03] Mike Howard: We started that until 2010. ~Uh, ~when I finally got outta that and did some consulting just to save up for this trip. But that was like a social network, community building,~ uh,~ platform. So kind of was also a good pairing with Anne's writing and my photography and social media to help build Honey Trek 

[00:08:22] Anne Howard: into what it's become.

[00:08:24] Mike Howard: I.

[00:08:24] Ryan Mellon: Very cool. So for Anne, was it scary leaving this job that you had put so much time and energy into, and ~um, ~for Mike, how was it did you continue with your,~ uh,~ entrepreneurial endeavors, the business that you had once you started traveling?

[00:08:40] Anne Howard: Yes. In terms of this being scary, I mean, the initial thought was like, this is such a dream. Like wow, to start our lights together, have all these life experiences, and then when like the rubber hit the road, like was about to hit the road, about three months in, I definitely had a freak out and I was like, I.

[00:08:56] Anne Howard: What am I doing? 

[00:08:57] Mike Howard: Three months before we left, three months 

[00:08:58] Anne Howard: before we left,~ uh,~ blowing [00:09:00] up a career like, you know, this friend circle, we had just bought this home. Like, what if I don't like it out there? What if, like, I can't hack it. I don't know. We've never taken more than a two week vacation together. How do you extrapolate this to years?

[00:09:12] Anne Howard: Like what is that gonna feel like? And I reserve the right to freak out and come home if I want to. And once we at least had that pact of like, yeah, we'll just try. If you don't like it, yes, we can come home. And that was like, okay, we can do this. There was not a moment I turned around and was like, let's go home.

[00:09:28] Anne Howard: I was within three months trying to figure out how to extend beyond a year. 

[00:09:32] Mike Howard: Yeah, I mean it's like we all get caught in these cycles. I mean, it's called The Matrix for a reason. I mean, that movie resonates with so many people. Many people don't understand how truly they are living in the Matrix. They watch the movie 'cause they like the special effects and, and it's a cool idea of transporting yourself into another world.

[00:09:51] Mike Howard: But the Matrix is real, like it's a machine that thrives on people who. Do a certain path, make a certain amount of money, [00:10:00] make more money, spend more money, pay more taxes, pay crazy absorbent in healthcare, like it's a machine that runs itself, it's a capitalist machine. Or maybe in other parts of the world it's a different type of machine.

[00:10:11] Mike Howard: But nonetheless, you. You know, you're, you're told you're made to believe because most people, you know, 99.99% of people you know are in that matrix. So it just looks normal to you. It's very hard to see an alternative life outside of that. So it's totally understandable for anybody to be fearful of it. And also why I think a lot of people come back from nomad life because.

[00:10:34] Mike Howard: They try it, they experience it, but they're constantly bombarded. Not as much as obviously when they're at home in that job, but they're still seeing their friends back home and they kind of have that draw inherent draw back to that life. 'cause they had previously spent 18, 20, 50 years in that life. It's really hard to shake up those, that mindset and be like, wow, there is alternative ways to live.

[00:10:58] Mike Howard: But that said, once you're on the [00:11:00] road. That's the only way to change your mind is to see other people doing it. To meet the, the other nomads in Chiang Mai or Cuenca, and see people who are fellow Americans or Canadians or Brazilians or wherever you're coming from. See them being successful. See them having a friend circle, see them working a job that's maybe paying us salary, but they're paying Kuka.

[00:11:22] Mike Howard: ~Uh, ~you know, rent and food prices and being happy and having a better quality of life and, you know, having their kids come visit them and their friends visit them, so they see them probably more than they did when they were in their hometown. So you see that happen and then it opens your mind like, wow, this is not just a blog I read.

[00:11:38] Mike Howard: Like, these people are here living it. They've got their expat circle. So once you're out there, really. Alters your mindset and helps you kind of break free if you really want to, out of that matrix,~ uh,~ that we're all thought to believe. ~Um, ~

[00:11:51] Anne Howard: but I think the back to the question for you was like, how did you use your skills for this?

[00:11:56] Anne Howard: Or did you continue any of it with us? I think it is [00:12:00] good that we had, you know, you had this like sales and marketing and digital background. Because all those things are necessary for any startup anymore. You have to wear 1000 hats, you know? You know, you need to still know how to work in a professional environment and to play in kind of like the bigger realm to make money at this whole thing.

[00:12:19] Anne Howard: So I think we've definitely used whatever training we had in New York versus like. The temptation of like doing a gap year out of college and never coming home. I still think when like young people talk to us about this, we were like, no, still go get some work experience. Whether you never come back to that job, I don't care.

[00:12:34] Anne Howard: But it's that you, you know how to play, you know, in the adult world to then leverage it to your own, you know, lifestyle and advantage later. But I think that foundation we drew from a lot. And now we never wanna go back to it, but we're still glad we had it. 

[00:12:48] Mike Howard: And I would point out, I would add onto that, saying like, our background's, me doing social media and photography and being a writer, that's obviously a perfect pairing to be content creators, travel writers, [00:13:00] travel authors, whatever.

[00:13:01] Mike Howard: The many hats that we wear in the travel storytelling space. Perfect for us. I wouldn't want people, well, one, I wouldn't want people that don't have the skills or the passion to tell stories, to think, oh, I should be a travel writer or an Instagrammer because they get all this free stuff. That's not, if that's not your passion and you don't enjoy that or are good at it, then try, don't go down that route.

[00:13:22] Mike Howard: 'cause there's a lot of people trying to go down that route. Simultaneously, if your skills are as a nurse, as an accountant, as a finance, you know, as a stock trader, as a life coach, as a yoga instructor, whatever your skills are, whatever you are getting paid in your home city to do, eight times outta 10, let's say.

[00:13:44] Mike Howard: You know, say for being a fireman or a policeman or something, those ones are pretty hard to parlay into another country. But whatever skill you're getting paid for at home, you can most likely either do that in another destination, in person, painting, carpentry, whatever, that [00:14:00] kind of skill. Or you can do it remotely for almost the same, or even if you're only making a third or a quarter of what you made in person at home, if you can make that remotely online.

[00:14:11] Mike Howard: As you can attest, that is more than enough to live in, you know, whatever. At least a hundred countries around the world, you can, you know, live on a quarter of what your salary is in the us So don't think that you need to become like a travel writer or some kind of influencer. That's one of do it. 

[00:14:27] Anne Howard: Julian Johnson, probably the worst paid of the, all 

[00:14:29] Mike Howard: the worst, paid of all.

[00:14:31] Mike Howard: And since Covid, like it's becoming, there's so many more tools. There's, companies are more open to it. You know, you go on Upwork and there's just thousands of jobs for whatever your skill is. So, get out there, you know, try 

[00:14:43] Anne Howard: it and, and see where it goes. I.

[00:14:45] Ryan Mellon: Yeah, I think that's a really good thing to bring up. ~Um, ~when I'm teaching clients, I always, we always go back through, what are your past three jobs? And we write down all the skills that they've learned,~ uh,~ in those jobs. And there's usually a lot of reoccurring ones. Like for me, myself, I was [00:15:00] in fast food and warehouse.

[00:15:03] Ryan Mellon: Neither of those were able to be online. I dabbled in real estate and then started doing real estate online,~ uh,~ and then got into coaching. But I still use a lot of the skills that I learned in my career in restaurant and warehouse in management. And,~ um,~ so using what you have and going from there and not trying to, you know, be the, the travel blogger, the.

[00:15:28] Ryan Mellon: The Instagramer just to make money, like is a great, is a great,~ um,~ tip. And you mentioned Cuenca. Where is Cuenca?

[00:15:37] Anne Howard: Eor E Ecuador,

[00:15:38] Ryan Mellon: Okay.

[00:15:38] Anne Howard: I think it was voting like top retirement capital of the world there for a while. So it was really interesting where we went through really remote parts of Ecuador and they get to this town. We're like, what is everyone doing here over the age of 65? And it had made those like international living lists a bunch of years in a row.

[00:15:52] Ryan Mellon: Okay. Okay. I have not been there yet.~ And you also~

[00:15:55] Anne Howard: ~Ead.~

[00:15:55] Ryan Mellon: ~No, no, I~

[00:15:55] Anne Howard: ~Ecuador is like, ~

[00:15:55] Mike Howard: yeah.~ I mean, we,~ we love almost every country we visit, but in South America, [00:16:00] Ecuador has got a special place for us for both affordability. The tight compact, you know, 

[00:16:05] Anne Howard: size of Colorado, but it's got the Amazon, the Galapagos, crazy volcanoes, colonial cities, and it's, and most people just kind of go for the Galapagos.

[00:16:14] Anne Howard: And you're like, no, no. Do not miss mainland Ecuador. It's, oh yeah, 

[00:16:16] Mike Howard: mainland Ecuador was as cool as the Galapagos, but most people just spend one or two days acclimate, fly over there, fly home to their home country. So definitely if you don't have budget, skip skip the Galapagos for now.~ Way ~

[00:16:29] Anne Howard: ~to do, you can do ~

[00:16:29] Mike Howard: ~Galapagos affordably, but uh, mainland Ecuador is, is ~

[00:16:29] Anne Howard: ~awesome.~

[00:16:29] Anne Howard: ~Yeah.~

[00:16:29] Ryan Mellon: Yeah. Nice. And so you mentioned also like earning US dollars and then you know, the cost of living in Cuenca, you know, being probably. What, how, well, what would you say? 75% off. I mean, what type, what are your costs of living in a place like that?

[00:16:45] Mike Howard: I'd say 60% off a rural place in America. It might be 80% off New York or la and 60% off of like a Cincinnati or you know, some like smaller mid-tier city. ~Um, ~

[00:16:57] Anne Howard: yeah, but super affordable. 

[00:16:58] Ryan Mellon: So, yeah, just [00:17:00] highlights how a lot of people think. Everyone who's traveling around and just going nonstop and, and going to different places and working and digital nomads, they're all rich and it's just, you know, you need a lot of money to do this, but you know, clearly,~ um,~ if you're making, if you're coming from a place of.

[00:17:17] Ryan Mellon: That's high cost of living and living around the world. You can really do it on so much less, and I think that's so important to highlight to people.

[00:17:26] Anne Howard: And also where you go, right? It's so we. We were very intentional with our list. 'cause we're like, how on earth are we gonna afford this? Will we run out of money? It was very hard to gauge expenses. It was a very helpful number to us. When we met this German couple back in 2010, we met them and they said, we traveled around the world of $50 a day per person.

[00:17:47] Anne Howard: We're like, that's a number we can save against. So if we have X amount, we can lead by this day and go for this long. That real math became. Achievable versus this mystery. You need to be a trust fund baby. And you [00:18:00] know, to be able to pull this off, we're like, no, we got it. We have it in the bank to do it and but to make it stretch, we're not gonna start in Norway, in Japan.

[00:18:07] Anne Howard: We're gonna go, you know, choose the more affordable developing countries. Travel over land, not fuss about trying to like go to the top restaurant and stay at the nice hotel every night. Like the more we can save, the longer we can go. And as we got better with sort of the travel hacking and just sort of, you know, street smarts and those kind of skills and making better choices, we're like, oh, travel's way less than that $50 a day mark.

[00:18:31] Anne Howard: And then we also started to like. What skills we had to then barter bigger experiences and, you know, do partnerships with tourism boards and hotels and, and sort of get sort of, you know, make our cost of living pretty low while having really epic experiences. Because you don't be so cheap that you're, you've gone all the way to Australia and you're a diver and you can't afford the barrier reefs.

[00:18:52] Anne Howard: You have to kind of like prioritize experiences, you know, why are you out there anyway? You're supposed to be having these awesome experiences, but you have to kind [00:19:00] of pick and choose. To, to make it, you know, make the long haul. 

[00:19:04] Mike Howard: Yeah. And I think like, yeah, to the cost perspective, I think so many people think about like in their past life, you know, let's say when they were in the Matrix, they're like, okay, I made five grand, I made eight grand a month.

[00:19:15] Mike Howard: Whatever you're making per month. Okay, I'm gonna go on the road, but how do I make that money? How do I make even close to that money on the road? And not a lot of people think, okay, well, but if I can bring my costs down, my costs, when I was living in XY city and making eight grand, my costs were five. On the road.

[00:19:32] Mike Howard: What if I can get my cost down to a thousand a month, then I don't need to make eight, you know, then I can make two on the road. So people making money is one piece of the puzzle, but an equally, if not more important part of the puzzle is bringing your cost down really low. And like Anne said, I. Not everywhere.

[00:19:48] Mike Howard: Finding the thing that you really want to splurge on, whether that's food, cool. Then splash out on a nice meal in every city you go to and get the cheapest hotel ride, the cheapest bus ride, economy air like [00:20:00] don't spend on other things. Especially because you're coming from a place where you're used to going on vacation for two weeks a year when you've saved up the.

[00:20:09] Mike Howard: Five, eight grand a person, you know, 10 grand between you and your partner to go on some splashy trip. And then when you're in Asia, you're like, oh, well it's, it's 50 bucks for the flight, but it's only a hundred bucks to sit up with more leg room. Well, yeah, but that 50 extra bucks, even though it sounds like tiddlywinks to you as an American, that's four nights.

[00:20:27] Mike Howard: In, you know, a cheap hostel or like a little guest house or whatever, two nights, whatever it is. But it's, it's a longer trip. So don't just spend because things seem cheap,~ uh,~ or buy frivolously. So that cost, I think, is an important piece of that coin that you can get really good at, especially with mileage hacking and credit cards and,~ uh,~ flights and hotel experiences.

[00:20:48] Mike Howard: So, ~uh, ~definitely look at that side of the coin. And one other thing to piggyback on what Anne said. I would never recommend anyone get into travel writing or blogging,~ uh,~ to be, to become wealthy or as their main source of [00:21:00] income. I mean, it's worked out for us, but that's 'cause we've been doing it for 13 years and putting in a lot of blood, sweat, and tears.

[00:21:06] Mike Howard: But for somebody that does have,~ uh,~ a certain passion, like a certain niche, that is where like running a little blog, building a little brand around that can help open doors. Like if you're a foodie or you're a vegan foodie and, and you run. Whatever vegan foodie blog, even if you only have a couple thousand followers, it'll be easy for you to get some really nice comped meals at fancy vegan restaurants.

[00:21:30] Mike Howard: Even if you're on a super low budget, you might get a hundred, $200 meals comped because you're a very niche blog. Or if you're into spas or Formula One racing or whatever,~ um,~ you could start a little something like that, that can open doors in something scuba diving and gave that example. If you're really passionate about that.

[00:21:47] Mike Howard: There's still a lot of competition, but if you have a little niche like that, it can open some of those fancier doors that make up for the night after night in like the cheapest place possible. ~Uh, ~which, and will attest is, is a lot of what we [00:22:00] do. But then those fans, we, we rose the 

[00:22:01] Anne Howard: bar, but just ever so slightly 

[00:22:02] Mike: from where we 

[00:22:03] Anne Howard: began because, you know, he likes the challenge of it all honestly, too.

[00:22:07] Anne Howard: He like totally gets off on just like. Finding the best deals and that kind of thing. Sometimes the expense of torturing me, but you know, I, we will meet in the middle so that, you know, where we all can feel happy and have a bigger picture of like, what is the goal here? Is it, 

[00:22:21] Mike Howard: what's coming next to, you're at the T Hotel for two nights?

[00:22:23] Mike Howard: You know, and that's five days from now. So Cool. We're gonna go super budget. We're gonna take this overnight bus. That's not gonna be comfortable, you know, it's a 15 hour bus or a 15 hour train ride that we need to transfer twice in the middle of the night. Yes. Could we have got a hotel and then flown the next morning, but that would've been 400 extra bucks.

[00:22:40] Mike Howard: So let's do this slightly uncomfortable thing. 'cause you know that, that high and maybe you don't want, you 

[00:22:45] Anne Howard: have little things on the horizon. Exactly. Like my threshold of pain is can go more t longer, a higher threshold of pain if I can see some, a sh, a silver lining in the distance. A little 

[00:22:56] Mike (4): light at the end of the proverbial tunnel.

[00:22:59] Ryan Mellon: Yeah, being able [00:23:00] to travel longer. So I love it. And not, not everyone on your, not all of your followers see that,~ um,~ maybe that side of you guys taking that cramp bus ride to save the money to go to the beautiful hotel. They just, you know, as they, they get to see the end product of you guys being frugal.

[00:23:17] Ryan Mellon: And that's, you know, I think a lot of us digital nomads are, they, they learn how to budget their money and the more you. Do it. The more you realize that, you know, the more money I save, the longer I can keep this thing going. So I think it's huge

[00:23:33] Anne Howard: To your point 

[00:23:34] Mike Howard: about like seeing the real side of it. If you look at our Instagram wall, those are just very curated places, properties, partners, those look just fancy and clean and nice. But if you watch our Instagram stories, which we post almost every day of the year, that's where it gets a lot more raw and you'll still see the nice stuff, but you'll see that in between overnight sleeper, waking up, you know, groggy and you know, we'll, we'll, we'll try and show more of that raw stuff on, [00:24:00] on stories, 

[00:24:00] Anne Howard: because I think the point, that's literally exactly where I am in the storytelling right now on Instagram is we did all these fancy things in Sweden and we get to Ro Yummy Finland, and it's a freaking fortune that place, and you are.

[00:24:13] Anne Howard: Check couch surfing. ~What was our count again? ~How long's it been? You know, aren't we too old for this? Like blah blah, blah. We met the nicest dude who was like, of course come stay with me. He was from Cameroon. I never met someone from Cameroon. I had to go to Finland to meet this guy. He was starting a tourism business with his mother who was the chief of the village.

[00:24:31] Anne Howard: And we just talked all night sharing ideas back and forth and he was just as lovely as can be and you know, never be too cool for yourself. Particularly 'cause we are in like this. Travel blogging world, and we have lots of fancy friends who get fun around the world and go to Antarctica, this, that, the other.

[00:24:47] Anne Howard: And sometimes people get too cool and you're like, keep it real, man. You still need to know how to hitchhike, couch, surf, and fend for yourself at all given circumstances. And I think it grounds you, you are like of, yeah, I, of course we could have afforded a place in Ro and Yummy that [00:25:00] night, but we're like, let's just, let's just kind of keep those skills sharp and see what's out there and it's always good.

[00:25:05] Anne Howard: To just remember where you came from, a little of those backpacking roots because it is about meeting people and getting a little raw and,~ uh,~ and connecting without the the glossiness of high-end hospitality.

[00:25:18] Ryan Mellon: Absolutely. ~Yeah. You're gonna get, uh, it's gonna be a different, um, different feel. Yeah. You, you definitely wanna get out there and meet the locals. So you guys do not have a full, uh, home base, right? You said you do. I'm sorry, I'm just gonna, we'll cut that out. ~ All right. So how do you guys choose your next destination and what.

[00:25:23] Ryan Mellon: Factors influence into your decision.

[00:25:26] Anne Howard: I think we learned early on that you cannot plan every day. You'll just literally, that will become your job is just planning, planning, planning and stressing about every little detail is just not worth your time. I. What we kind of do is we sketch the year and just have a few tent bowl things. Okay. We always speak at the glamping show every October, so that means we must be in Denver at this time.

[00:25:50] Anne Howard: And then, oh, we also have, you know, this friend's wedding or this,~ um,~ you know, the gorilla, the baby gorilla naming ceremony is happening in the end of August. Like, we have a [00:26:00] few things that we definitely know we wanna catch and then,~ uh,~ fill in the, and then kind of build off of them. You know, we're doing a ski trip in Bulgaria with friends.

[00:26:08] Anne Howard: Well, we've never been to Romania, so maybe now that starts a whole like Romania journey. So it's kind of like. Building out from a few things and letting some serendipity play into, you never know what opportunities are gonna happen, what people you're gonna meet because you over plan. Sometimes you shut out what could be other cool, unforeseen experiences.

[00:26:26] Mike Howard: And we also like our method of travel from both. We think it's more fun, but especially it's more sustainable to travel as slow as you can, overland whenever possible. Usually, you know, we try and go in the same direction, so. Even if a partner is, you know, flying us to a remote destination, we did a partnership with Malaysia and it was a 10 day partnership.

[00:26:50] Mike Howard: And they said, Hey, we'll fly you back at the end of this campaign, which was back to Europe. ~Um, ~so that would've been two really long haul flights in 10 days apart. So we said, no, like, why [00:27:00] don't you book us a return flight home three months after we get there? And they were kind of flabbergasted. They were like, well, what are you gonna do for three months?

[00:27:07] Mike Howard: We can't pay for your lodging for three months. We were like, you guys pay for the first 10 days and we'll handle the next, you know. Two and a half months, two, you know, two months and three weeks there. And then we did a lot of overlanding to Brunai and Borneo and down into, uh,~ uh,~ Singapore and Indo and,~ uh,~ East Timor, which was an amazing,~ uh,~ stop.

[00:27:27] Mike Howard: ~Um, ~so, so point being, I. Travel overland as much as you can. It's both more affordable, it's more sustainable. It's where you're gonna meet all those locals. Serendipity to Anne's point will happen because you'll be on that bus and maybe you meet another backpacker or another local who says, oh, you gotta get off at this next town.

[00:27:44] Mike Howard: They're doing a festival, and it starts tomorrow. So just hop off and like, stay at my aunt's house or go to this little, you know, guest house on the corner and they'll have a room for you. And like those little things. Don't happen when you have flights planned all around the world and you're just trying to hop from [00:28:00] cool spot to the next cool spot.

[00:28:02] Mike Howard: ~So Overland I think is a big way that we plan is like, we'll have that tent pole, like Anne said, either it's a partnership with a DMO or a friend's wedding in another country. And then we'll say, okay, what's nearby there? Where, how can we get overland? And as far as we can get, and maybe we can even go over land if we've got two or three months to get from Berlin.~

[00:28:02] Mike Howard: ~All the way to Bulgaria by a bus. Um, cool. Let's do that and we'll see, see some new countries on the way and just travel a little slower. ~

[00:28:02] Anne Howard: And actually, you know, to be honest, a, a couple of those Tentpoles are a few different conferences. ~We go to Temple. A couple of those tentpoles are conferences and~ I think whatever industry you are in, it is good to like have those professional meetings to say, you know, find your, your group that you can be learning from, sharing connections and planning together.

[00:28:19] Anne Howard: So usually going to those big, we just went to the biggest travel conference in the world here in Berlin, which is why we're here right now. And that will open up a bunch of doors. Who didn't? You know, see possible when you were planning your calendar on January 1st? Well, we show up these different events, make those connections, and then it kind of, we're planning in chunks throughout the year.

[00:28:37] Ryan Mellon: Oh, I love that it's, and it sounds like you guys are not just making money off of your books,~ uh,~ and possibly social media, but it also sounds like you, you're having the ability to partner with maybe hospitality or travel,~ um,~ companies. So are you guys like exchanging work for like free stays or free [00:29:00] travel, or what does that look like?

[00:29:01] Anne Howard: In the beginning of Honey Trek, 100%. It was pretty much all barter. I don't think we got paid anything in our first year, maybe even two, beyond like a handful of freelance writing assignments. ~Um, ~but now we do more formal consulting for boutique hospitality brands. We actually have a wing of Honey Trek because I.

[00:29:16] Anne Howard: Glamping, experiential, outdoor accommodations sort of became a strong niche for us. You wrote the first book about it in North America and are now working on our second book about it tackling the best glamping in the world. We have become experts in this very specific field, so we work with camps that are just starting or, or established, looking to sort of see what they could do better on the guest experience.

[00:29:38] Anne Howard: That's been really fun for us because it's all about also working different sides of your brain, like. Our editorial stuff for Honey Truck is all consumer facing. It's really fun to talk shop with industry people. 'cause now we're industry professionals, but I'm not gonna bore the honey truck audience with it.

[00:29:53] Anne Howard: That's not their jam looking for cool places to travel. But it's good, it's helpful to like just have those different types of [00:30:00] conversations and professional development. ~Um, ~and that's why that, that's been. It's unsu like and really rewarding. And also the hardcore travel,~ um,~ long-term travel stuff. We do some consulting for that.

[00:30:11] Anne Howard: That's not your everyday Honey Trek follower. But we're super stoked to help people plan long-term trips because it's changed our life and we, you know, can see taking that career break gap year would change everyone. So we're down and love to help people do that.

[00:30:25] Ryan Mellon: Awesome. ~Awesome. I love it.~ You guys are really working it from all different levels and having that little bit of in-person work and not in front of the computer, you know, also helps just break things up, you know? ~So meeting good people, ~

[00:30:36] Anne Howard: To Ann's point there, and just a little 

[00:30:38] Mike Howard: put a bug in in any of your listeners' ear. We just got a really cool email. We've done a, we've taught maybe 120, 130 people to do long-term travel. Like we call that two months to two year trips. Or 13 years if that's your goal. ~Um, ~like just all of the skills, you know, from safety to food, to mail, to taxes, to booking [00:31:00] flights, to mileage hacking.

[00:31:01] Mike Howard: It's like a full, you know, five hour course. But somebody just emailed and said, Hey, I, I read about your, your Trip coach course on Honey Treks website. And what do you think it's possible if I pay for your course? Then I put it up on Zoom in our auditorium. And you just teach it to all the students In our school 

[00:31:20] Anne Howard: It's university.

[00:31:21] Anne Howard: Yeah, like some 

[00:31:21] Mike Howard: university class. They're like, we'll just have 'em come in on a weekend or after school and we'll just do like this four hour zoom where you just drop all your knowledge to my kids. 'cause I want them to see how. Easy and like safely, you know, go on like a really long trip. So I thought that was the coolest thing that a teacher was like, I want to pay for your course, but I just want you to like teach it to all my students and I'm gonna like, make 'em sit in the room.

[00:31:45] Mike Howard: And ~um, ~you know, we've 

[00:31:46] Anne Howard: spoken at a number of schools, I'm always like, you want us to tell your kids how to. Quit. Like drop out and go bum around the world. Are you sure this is the message you wanna send to the high school kids? 

[00:31:56] Mike Howard: But our message always includes, as you kind of alluded to before, [00:32:00] is it is great to go on a gap year right out of high school or college and just go travel for the fun of it.

[00:32:06] Mike Howard: ~Um, ~but if you can, you don't need to hit the road right then if you can hit the road with a under your belt. ~Um, ~that you can hopefully make a little money from being on the road and also have a nest egg and leave with more than just 500 or a thousand bucks in your bank account, or five grand from working summer jobs.

[00:32:24] Mike Howard: If you can have a real nest egg, then you'll have that flexibility to stay out longer while you get your sea legs and figure out how to make money and where you wanna live, and if you want to do it long term. And then even if you do decide to come home, your reentry will be better. If you've got 15, 20 grand in the bank when you're reentering your hometown rather than 300 bucks, 'cause you're like, this was my last 300 bucks to get on a plane home and now I'm scrambling.

[00:32:51] Mike Howard: So either way, leaving with a skillset and a nice healthy nest egg will make your trip a lot more enjoyable, flexible, and I think give you better potential [00:33:00] to be a longer term nomad than if you're just leaving right when you barely have enough money and not the skills that other people would want 

[00:33:06] Anne Howard: to pay you for remotely.

[00:33:07] Ryan Mellon: Yeah, and I think just working in the corporate grind just a couple years, once you get out of it and go travel the world, you're gonna appreciate it 10 times more. Right.

[00:33:17] Anne Howard: So.

[00:33:18] Ryan Mellon: So can you guys describe like a typical work day for you guys while you're traveling? Do you guys have a routine? Like what, what does a day in the life look like on a normal day?

[00:33:28] Ryan Mellon: Not, not a travel day, but like you're in a new place. I.

[00:33:32] Anne Howard: For, I mean, if fall I, I really like to reserve, be it even just a measly 15 minutes in the morning before you look at your phone and do all that stuff is to like, I. Do some basic stretching, sit ups, yoga, like, you know, just have a little bit of like a deep breath to kind of, you know, make sure your body is moved a certain level, as well as just kind of clear the mind before you just jump right in because you say you're gonna take that walk in the middle of the [00:34:00] day and then it's a runaway train, right?

[00:34:01] Anne Howard: So like, just reserve those 15 minutes in the morning as, as something precious. Obviously if you can do longer or get more in later, fantastic. But at least no one can take that away from you. So I think that that's always the goal. And then, you know, kind of checking your social media messages after that.

[00:34:16] Anne Howard: Respond to little comments,~ um,~ seeing what emails came in. Kinda like the boring, normal stuff. And we kind of 

[00:34:21] Mike Howard: like split things up. I think this is one of the beauties of running a business, especially if you're doing content creation or, you know, we can speak mostly to, to being travel writers and, and content creators that.

[00:34:34] Mike Howard: That we, we have a pretty good split,~ uh,~ you know, division of labor and we both choose the things that we're most passionate about. Each of us have to pick a few things that we're not super passionate about, but, you know, Ann is on there on the social, she's creating new reels, new IG stories, talking to, you know, the audience, replying to comments.

[00:34:54] Mike Howard: She's writing new articles, new blogs for our site or other magazines that we write for Glamping business. [00:35:00] Americas writing a new article for them every month. I. And then on my end I'm doing a lot of the, the pitching to new destinations, to new hotels. I'm doing a lot of the logistics, like I really dig, you know, flight routing and overland, how we're gonna get there, where we're gonna stay.

[00:35:17] Mike Howard: Looking at, you know, our, the logistics and just kind of keeping visas. Up to date and handling all of the home stuff digitally. Like in two days I've gotta do our business taxes. So that's like a big part of my next two days is arranging all the 10 90 nines we've received and,~ uh,~ working with our accountant to, to get that all dialed in.

[00:35:36] Mike Howard: So more of like the life logistical things, which is sometimes harder to quantify, but they're out there and there's, they don't slow down when you go on the road. ~Uh, ~it's not like all of your, your life stuff just handles itself. You just now have to do it digitally. ~Um. ~Do that, but we, we do work a, a fair bit.

[00:35:52] Mike Howard: ~I mean, uh, we,~ we don't watch any Netflix or any tv. We might watch three, 

[00:35:56] Anne Howard: I wouldn't say any, but like, it's not like we 

[00:35:58] Mike Howard: don't watch more than five, five [00:36:00] episodes, five 30 minute shows in a year. So that, that's what I'm considering. Not much at all. ~Um, ~we don't watch any sports, which I think gives us a lot of our, our time back, especially not watching baseball or golf.

[00:36:11] Mike Howard: ~Um, ~but yeah, we don't, we really don't do that. So we, we work a lot when we're working. It might be 15, 18 hour day in front of the computer. It's 

[00:36:19] Anne Howard: not crazy. But then we also by like disappear in Swedish lapland for ten. So it's kind of like Exactly, we can have all the pieces aligned of like. A good workspace and internet connection will go pretty hard, like long days.

[00:36:30] Anne Howard: But you know, we also appreciate, you know, not eating at our desk. Like will we have like a proper breakfast, lunch and dinner when we can, like, we like to cook, we like to open a bottle of wine. Like to have that kind of like, you know, to have those kind of rhythms because we don't have that luxury sometimes.

[00:36:45] Anne Howard: Like we really savor like, ooh, we're like, cook a nice meal and do that kind of thing. ~Um, ~and then, you know, I. Ending the day with like the SNL cold open, like makes us happy. Just like a little blast. More 

[00:36:58] Mike Howard: than five shows, there's five Netflix [00:37:00] shows a year, probably 20 SNL cold opens per year. 'cause I think that's about how many they do.

[00:37:05] Mike Howard: ~Um, ~but just to layer on top of that,~ um,~ another thing that we like. Almost credit to how we're able to be traveling so long and, and not go crazy or kill each other and still get a lot of work done and have a semi-normal routine. Is house sitting, like we're doing house sit right now. We wrapped up this ITB trade show three days ago.

[00:37:26] Mike Howard: The day the show ended miraculously, we had one more extra day. We stayed at our Airbnb. And then this house sit came online for a two week house, sit in Berlin. 

[00:37:34] Anne Howard: I started to scout it early and I, I know I'm gonna have something like, I will be at this conference at this date, and I know that three months in advance, I'll put an alert on Trusted House Sitters is the, the biggest online community for house sitting.

[00:37:47] Anne Howard: It's,~ uh,~ has the, and it's the one we've been using exclusively for a while. And I'm 

[00:37:51] Mike Howard: exclusively, but we'll send you a link. We'll drop a link in the, in the show of like a little house sitting template we've got of how to get into these communities and profile. 

[00:37:59] Anne Howard: [00:38:00] There's regional ones that are like very good too.

[00:38:02] Anne Howard: but we will just be like, yeah, throw it out there. We did the same thing. We had something in New York and we're like, you're so busy after these conferences, all you wanna do is just like. Take a moment to organize your thoughts. And if you're just quickly jumping on the next bus or train, it's very, you always feel like you're chasing, right?

[00:38:16] Anne Howard: So yeah, you put the alerts out there and lo and behold, these are our dates and they match up. You be flexible. It's not like booking an Airbnb. You have to understand that it's not gonna always appear at the time that you want, but cast the net wide. And then when those CRI piece of criteria hit, I get an an email alert from them saying, Hey, you have new houses at Master site.

[00:38:35] Anne Howard: Criteria. And we have traveled around the world this way. We have written books using house sits as our base. ~Um, ~it's been a really sort of, uh, that is when we need stability. House sitting has really filled in, usually comes with a cat or a dog. I'm stoked about that 'cause I wish I could have a cat and a dog, but I can't, my lifestyle so that I borrow them, love them, and give them back.

[00:38:56] Anne Howard: It's great. 

[00:38:57] Mike Howard: And you meet locals too, because you're not staying [00:39:00] usually you're not staying in the touristy part of town. 'cause it's somebody. Who lives there full time and they need to, who knows, go to their daughter's wedding in London or go to. Go home to do their taxes in the US so, or go on vacation. A lot of people go, we've house that for people who are going on vacation to go house, sit in another place and we're watch.

[00:39:18] Mike Howard: We're house sitting. Their place while they're going to house, sit another place and no one's paying for any accommodation. It's just all a nice barter, which is how more of the world should be. It's just a really great way to get local, to see a different side of a city, to have your local veggie shop, your local restaurants, your coffee shop in the morning, 

[00:39:35] Anne Howard: try on Yeah.

[00:39:35] Anne Howard: New lifestyles. We've been farmers in Portugal. We've,~ uh,~ worst 

[00:39:40] Mike (4): caretakers. Yeah. 

[00:39:41] Anne Howard: Yeah. It's been, I, yeah. Can't recommend highly enough.

[00:39:44] Ryan Mellon: You guys have building lots of skills there. Horse taking care of horses, cats, dogs, and who knows what else? And I love that. Yeah. You're the, you're, you're living in someone's houses, so I'm sure you meet some of the neighbors and [00:40:00] the surrounding,~ uh,~ locals and they probably ha leave some good suggestions for you to some of these house sitting places,~ uh,~ where their favorite places to check out and, and then you get to have a place to stay for free.

[00:40:13] Ryan Mellon: So what's not to love about that? Well, tell me what's one of your top experiences in all of your travels ~if there, I know there's a many of them, but there's gotta be some magical ones that really come to mind that, that you just might wanna tell us about today.~

[00:40:21] Anne Howard: ~You got one? Uh, ~*~let's see. ~* The one example. 'cause we've been trying for a long time to like figure out how travel can be a force for good and when you know you could be doing the things that you are gonna be doing anyway. Okay. So I'll use this as an example. So, ~um. ~With Honey Trek, you know, starting to actually like making us a living.

[00:40:39] Anne Howard: We made a commitment to give back 5% of what we earn to local nonprofits that help the environment and the community, and also try and surface places for travelers where they feel like they're getting something awesome. And the community also feels like they're gaining from their, from their presence without just monetary things.

[00:40:57] Anne Howard: So like, say. Mendocino Coast Gardens [00:41:00] in, in,~ uh,~ California. If you look, it's like number one thing to do on TripAdvisor, whatever, and it's $35 to go there. Well, we found out that like you could actually go like be a volunteer on at the community garden. Learn from that master gardener and that food goes to the local food bank and it also gets you, your presence for that day also got you entrance into the.

[00:41:23] Anne Howard: Into staying there. So it's kind of like trying to surface opportunities like that for travelers and for ourselves. We're like, well that was such a better way to see the garden because I became a part of this in the community and gave back, that wasn't going for favorite experiences. But what I was really, what made me think of that was, ~um.~

[00:41:40] Anne Howard: Staying at the Brando in French Polynesia, one of like the most outrageous hotels ever. Beyonce stayed there. Barack Obama spent three weeks working on his book there and that place. Why they charge those, those prices is that they are basically like the whole, A hole is like a big [00:42:00] environmental research and ocean conservation project.

[00:42:02] Anne Howard: So we got to do both. We got to kind of stay in the fancy land of like where Beyonce was staying and then also like live in the dorms with the researchers and go out and do field work and ~uh, ~you know. Collect sound samples for the birds and count net eggs for the nest and whatnot. So it's kinda like when you can like have those amazing experiences, but also be a part of something bigger in the process, I think are, those are the kind of examples that, that wind up being the most fulfilling.

[00:42:28] Mike Howard: And I will give one,~ uh,~ which is a little bit more adventurous. ~Um. ~This is a little bit of that giving back component, but it was hiking to annapurna base camp. ~Uh, ~which we did in Nepal. In Nepal. So we did this almost a decade ago. And the two lessons that I take from, from that very strenuous, it was a 10 day hike, I think it was like seven days up and three days back home,~ um,~ was don't wait.

[00:42:53] Mike Howard: To do adventures. Whether that adventure is just you going to Europe for the first time, don't think that when you're [00:43:00] 65 your hips are gonna work, your wife's still gonna be with you, and you're not gonna have grandkids pulling you home or another mortgage that you're trying to pay, so you can't afford that trip.

[00:43:11] Mike Howard: Do the adventure now, especially do the adventurous things now. You know, maybe skip Europe, maybe skip the, the easier places and go to Southeast Asia where you're gonna be cramped on a wooden boat for 12 hours going down the Mekong or hiking for seven, 10 days to get to entrepreneur base camp. Because my knees, I don't know if they could handle that right now, but, you know, 10 years ago when, when, you know, when I was 10 years younger, I could.

[00:43:37] Mike Howard: So you never know how your life and body's gonna change. So do the more adventurous places now. tip on that is don't always book everything from the states because. There is a benefit to that. And obviously if time is of the Es, you know, essence and you've only got those exact 10 days that you're landing there and you need a guide to pick you up at the airport and start trek the next day, if [00:44:00] your budget allows, obviously do that and you'll have a slightly different quality of service.

[00:44:04] Mike Howard: But when we booked that annapurna trip, which was being booked stateside, peop tour companies were offering that trip we did for between three and $6,000 per person, including food and lodging and everything, and. We booked it from ra,~ uh,~ which is where kind of the, a lot of those adventure buses start.

[00:44:23] Mike Howard: We booked a guide for the entire 10 days for four people for 200 US dollars. So it was $50 per person for a 10 day trip, and then meals and lodging with maybe an extra at 300 bucks a person for the whole 10 days. So for 350 bucks we booked. A $5,000 trip because we were there in person, we were flexible.

[00:44:45] Mike Howard: We met a local, so we all, that money went right to the local. He probably got as much as he would from the $5,000 trip 'cause all the money went right into his pocket. So again, there's a time and a place for both, but don't let cost. Steer you away from going to a place and just [00:45:00] figuring it out when you get there.

[00:45:01] Mike Howard: Just buffer 2, 3, 4 days on the front side. So you can figure out those logistics and you can be flexible and say, okay, wow, I'm in AUSA and there's a Safari leaving tomorrow morning. It's a thousand dollars a day Safari, but they're giving it to me for 200 because they've got four extra seats. They'd rather 200 bucks than zero.

[00:45:21] Mike Howard: So because I'm here, I can pivot. So don't, same with Antarctica. I had a friend who just, and a lot of people will say this hack has ended, but they hung out in Tiara del Fuego,~ uh,~ at the tip of, of Argentina trying to get to Antarctica. They got on, they got in a room that was, I think $8,500 a night, and they got in it for 3,500 no a night,~ uh,~ for the 10 day trip.

[00:45:44] Mike Howard: So it was 8,500 for the whole 10 day trip, and they got in for 3,500 per person as opposed to 8,500 just by being there. The boat posted, Hey, we've got 20 extra cabins. If anybody wants to fill 'em, it's 70% off. So there's all [00:46:00] sorts of good hacks like that. But again, it comes to being slow, flexible. Putting a little will out into the world and a little risk, and you'll be handsomely rewarded,~ uh,~ with some of those little perks.

[00:46:12] Anne Howard: I I think now we have to just think of a bunch of rapid fire. We'll go back and forth. Long-winded one. 

[00:46:15] Mike Howard: That's it. That that was the end of those questions. Two experiences, 

[00:46:18] Anne Howard: ~just two. I thought you wanted five. Just two. Just two.~

[00:46:18] Ryan Mellon: ~No,~ very good. ~Uh, ~very good stories. And I love the, the advice about just, you know, going with the wind and, and going slow and also being at the right place at the right time. 'cause the universe will throw you a bone sometimes,~ um,~ like that. That super discounted trip to Antarctica, which is a super gnarly trip to go across.

[00:46:40] Ryan Mellon: My, my friend's parents actually went in their late seventies, just like a coup, like a month ago, and I was looking at their Facebook. It looks absolutely epic. The only downside is I hate the cold, so go.

[00:46:52] Anne Howard: Well, thankfully it's 

[00:46:53] Mike Howard: pretty warm when we went to Antarctica, which was March, right? 

[00:46:56] Anne Howard: You. 

[00:46:56] Mike Howard: We had thirties and forties, sunny almost [00:47:00] every day. Cut little hailstorms here, but it wasn't like negative 10. I mean, it's 

[00:47:03] Anne Howard: like the equivalent to New York in January was what was in Antarctica in January.

[00:47:06] Ryan Mellon: yeah, it's not as bad as I thought, but anything below 75 for me is cold, so if I can't be in flip flops and, and shorts, I, I'm in the wrong place.

[00:47:17] Anne Howard: I hear myself.

[00:47:19] Ryan Mellon: So what advice would you give for someone wanting to start the digital nomad lifestyle? If you had one? A piece of advice.

[00:47:26] Anne Howard: I think if your goal is to. Don't. Don't confuse traveling and working. If you really want to go travel, go travel, because you'll just always feel this FOMO of like, I am a this beautiful place, but I have to get my stuff done. Oh, darn. It's like, no, I'm so glad we went. We traveled hard for the first year and a half and. Exhaust yourself a little bit to the point you go, you know what? I still love travel, but I, I will, I'm gonna find that life work balance. But if your goal is just to go travel, don't let work. Get in the way. Figure out an awesome month to six [00:48:00] month trip for yourself, and then,~ um,~ and then figure out how to merge those two.

[00:48:04] Anne Howard: Or just commit to going slower. You cannot travel fast and get, see a bunch of places and expect to get work done. It's gonna, it just doesn't work out. So yeah, set yourself those boundaries. Either of just like, yeah, admit you wanna travel and go do it. Or go at a fraction of the speed and see less stuff so that you can get some work done in the process, but still kind of get to know a place because you were there longer.

[00:48:27] Mike Howard: And I think also just like interact with people who are nomads, obviously. Listen to their podcasts, read their blogs, engage with them on social, ask them questions. Hey, what's this really like? Hey, what's a good resource you have for X, Y, Z? And then when you're on the road. Is gonna give you access to. 50 people per night that are downstairs drinking a beer that are some form of nomads usually.

[00:48:51] Mike Howard: And not all of 'em obviously, but a lot of people in that lobby kitchen bar area are gonna be nomads. That's a great resource. Or if you [00:49:00] really want to dive deep, do like a co-living thing. It's a little more pricey, obviously. It might be a grand or two,~ uh,~ a month instead of three or 400 bucks. You know, a little, a local spot, but you're gonna have access to people who are truly succeeding at being digital nomads.

[00:49:15] Mike Howard: They have the tools, they have the resources. It's a great community, both for knowledge, but also inspiration to see this house of. 30 people that are all working all different jobs and how do they do their accounting and, and how, where do they earn their living? So 

[00:49:30] Anne Howard: I think on that, on the bigger scale of that is there are, there are full on active communities and festivals around this like.

[00:49:37] Anne Howard: The Bansko, digital Nomad Fest is a great place to kind of like, make a ton of connections, see, have a lot of examples of, of different ways people are living, go to talks, go to parties, go to, so those kind of things. I think that community element, knowing that you're not alone,~ uh,~ is, is really huge. So find those,~ uh,~ to get your feet wet is a great way to do it.

[00:49:56] Mike Howard: I know that one of those fun communities, I don't know if you've heard of it, but. [00:50:00] Our buddy Travis runs a community called Location Indie, which is ba like location independent. 

[00:50:04] Anne Howard: Oh, camp Indie is awesome. 

[00:50:06] Mike Howard: And then Camp Indie every year. They just sent out a WhatsApp this morning. ~Uh, ~it happens up in Connecticut.

[00:50:11] Mike Howard: I think it's in June, mid-June. But just go to camp indie.com or message Travis and tell 'em Honey Trek sent you to get like a, he'll probably give you some discount if you say you heard it through us, but it's it, we did it last year. We actually keynoted this conference. It was like. 200 of the coolest lo, either people who were already location independent nomads wanted to become, wanted to learn, but everybody there was just like good hearted, good spirited, and 

[00:50:39] Anne Howard: so many even backgrounds.

[00:50:40] Anne Howard: Yeah. So there was a whole like real estate track, which we don't get into, but learned a ton of stuff and you know, then there was the kind of creation side, but then there was. You know, breath work sessions and dance parties and kayaking and it was such a lining and like, you know, yeah, you can it with like true friends.

[00:50:54] Anne Howard: 'cause you were living similar lifestyles and you all instantly connected. So I cannot understate the, [00:51:00] the value of these, these bigger group nomad events.

[00:51:04] Ryan Mellon: Awesome. Yeah, it sounds like, I think I've seen that online and it, it's like, it just reminds me of like summer camp when I was a kid, but like with adults and a bunch of cool people and like nomads and, and like just making friends and having cool experiences and Yeah. Definitely gonna check that out.

[00:51:23] Ryan Mellon: Well, cool. As we,~ uh,~ wrap up, I'm just gonna ask a couple rapid fire questions. So, what is your, what is the best way to make friends in a new city?

[00:51:34] Anne Howard: Free walking tour is one thing 

[00:51:36] Mike Howard: that we do where we meet a lot of people. You're obviously gonna meet tourists on there, but ~um, ~free walking tour gives you access to quickly and then hostels,~ uh,~ again, private room in a hostel I think is also a great way to connect with people who are. Also traveling.

[00:51:49] Mike Howard: They've been where you're going and you've been where they're going. So it's a great share of information and we've met, we've met people that we continue then to travel with for a few days. I think a lot of solo female travelers [00:52:00] will do weeks or even months. 

[00:52:02] Anne Howard: That 

[00:52:02] Mike Howard: was quick. I'm sorry for Honey Trek.

[00:52:04] Mike Howard: That was quick, man. 

[00:52:05] Anne Howard: I would also say sports,~ uh,~ we're we met playing volleyball. We'll, when we see a game going on, we'll just kind of like smile on the sidelines and we always get subbed in and make truly local friends. We've also also joined.~ Uh, ~we've had a friend who've traveled the world with a tennis rocket and just that was her foray into new communities.

[00:52:23] Anne Howard: So if you pick a sport and, and run with it, it's a great social event.

[00:52:27] Ryan Mellon: ~Okay. Okay. Awesome. ~Great tips. ~Uh, ~most valuable skill you've developed as a digital nomad. I.

[00:52:32] Anne Howard: I think adaptability. I feel like the world is changing around you at all points every day, and you can't let that rock you. You have to see the bumps in the road as a new adventure and go with it. 

[00:52:43] Mike Howard: ~Um, ~yeah, I think my skill is having a really kind and open heart and like treating everybody with respect.

[00:52:53] Mike Howard: I think,~ uh,~ one, it's just a good way to be as a human, but it dramatically, I. Alters and [00:53:00] enhances your travel experience to actually just not care about the beauty of the places you visit, but care about the people, their story, what they do for work, what their daily life is like, because then those interactions at a coffee shop or somebody cooking you a meal become that much more powerful.

[00:53:17] Mike: Nothing comes down to like being a good.

[00:53:19] Ryan Mellon: Yeah. Love that. What one item would you never travel without besides your laptop or your phone?

[00:53:26] Anne Howard: We travel 

[00:53:27] Mike: with our real full-sized feather pillows because 

[00:53:30] Mike Howard: 13 years, same, two pillows, our original pillows that from in New York on our bed are in our backpacks right now to this day.

[00:53:37] Ryan Mellon: Okay.

[00:53:38] Ryan Mellon: Yeah. got one, my quick one, which will have to be quick. It's called a SteriPEN. It's a UV light. ~Um, ~we in month that sterilizes, it sterilizes.

[00:53:48] Mike Howard: So you basically take your Nalgene, you put this pen in there, swish it around 60 seconds. We drink, do it after. Sterilizing it like that from tap water from the faucet. [00:54:00] And now we just did it in,~ uh,~ LA in Lithuania, which was our 83rd country. We've been to 84 countries since we left New York. In January, 2012, only the first country did we crack the seal on a plastic water bottle that was Brazil.

[00:54:13] Mike Howard: And when we saw how much of that plastic made it into rivers and the roadsides, we tried, we made a pledge to try and go through Argentina without any water bottles, and it's now been 83 countries without, without even a single plastic water bottle in a hotel, a bus. No matter what, we tap water and use this pen.

[00:54:32] Mike Howard: It's like 70 bucks on Amazon. Every single traveler, every nomad should be using this. And kick this single use plastic water bottle. Show locals how you do it. Show all the other travelers that you meet. Hey, you don't need to be spending two, five bucks a day and consuming four, six plastic water bottles that may get recycled, maybe most likely not even in developing nations.

[00:54:56] Mike Howard: So just stop consuming them. We haven't not been sick a single day from [00:55:00] water in 13 years, so we can, we, we, we we're living testament that that's a good thing. So that's 

[00:55:06] Anne Howard: what I would not give up in my pack.

[00:55:08] Ryan Mellon: I love it. Yeah. I've seen 'em online, but I always thought, I always wondered if, if it, if they work. ~Um, ~I had the,~ uh,~ life straw for a long time,~ uh,~

[00:55:17] Ryan Mellon: ~and I always~ 

[00:55:17] Mike (4): much better because it's like you purify water. You can fill up your buddy's Nalgene, purify more and make coffee. It's just, 

[00:55:23] Anne Howard: it's easy.

[00:55:24] Ryan Mellon: Awesome. Where can people find you guys?

[00:55:27] Anne Howard: So we're Honey Trek 

[00:55:28] Mike Howard: honey, like a honeymoon. H-O-N-e-Y-T-R-E-K. Like trek, like a long trek around the world, across all social. Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube,~ uh,~ snap, whatever, TikTok, Snapchat, wherever you're at. ~Uh, ~find us there and say hello. Shoot us a dm. 

[00:55:45] Anne Howard: We've also written two books, and that is a huge support to us in,~ uh,~ keeping our travels going.

[00:55:49] Anne Howard: One was for National Geographic called Ultimate Journeys For Two, all about couples adventure travel across the seven continents. I. Then we are all about like cool, unique outdoor [00:56:00] accommodations. Wrote a book called Comfortably Wild about the best glamping destinations in North America, and stay tuned for the second edition, which we have the best in the world.

[00:56:09] Anne Howard: We've got two years until that's done, so get the North America one until then for some great ideas. 

[00:56:14] Mike Howard: And both of those books are on Amazon. I think they're both like 10, 12 bucks. They're the glamping ones on Crazy Sale. But if you do get either of those books and you wanna drop a review on Amazon, say you heard us on the podcast here, that would mean the world to us.

[00:56:27] Mike Howard: Like Ken said, that's how we support our journey of sharing these sustainable, cool, local experiences, and we 

[00:56:33] Anne Howard: want to keep doing it forever.

[00:56:35] Ryan Mellon: Awesome. Awesome guys. Well, it was really good having you and thank you so much for taking the time out today, and I hope you guys have amazing rest of your day.

[00:56:43] Anne Howard: Thanks so much. Yeah, that was awesome.
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