Why Some Digital Nomads Burn Out While Others Thrive with Becky Bottjer, Co-founder of Altspace Coworking in Bansko, Bulgaria | EP 24

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Ready to discover how the right community can transform your digital nomad experience?

Ryan Mellon sits down with Becky Bottjer, owner of Altspace Coworking in Bansko, Bulgaria who has welcomed over 2,000 digital nomads since they open. They explore what makes digital nomads thrive.

From the dangers of traveling too quickly to the life-changing impact of community, you'll discover what separates successful nomads from those who struggle. Becky brings a unique perspective as someone who completely transformed her life - moving from high-stress corporate tech in the UK to building a thriving three-location coworking space in Bulgaria.

Chapters:
00:05:00 – Why becky left the UK for Bulgaria
00:11:00 – How 2,000+ nomads built a community
00:12:32 – What it’s like raising a child abroad
00:17:19 – Visas, loopholes, and living in europe long-term
00:23:12 – What most coworking spaces get wrong

Her journey includes everything from pandemic obstacles to raising a daughter abroad, providing practical wisdom for anyone considering a similar path. Whether you're traveling solo, with a partner, or even with children, Becky offers tested strategies for creating meaningful connections while maintaining productivity.

Listen and learn invaluable insights on finding your tribe, avoiding common pitfalls, and creating a sustainable remote lifestyle no matter where in the world you choose to call home.

Connect with guest: https://www.instagram.com/altspacebansko/

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DISCLAIMER:
Listening to stories of beachside zoom calls, mountainside work views, and island-hopping entrepreneurs may cause severe wanderlust and an irresistible urge to turn your laptop into a passport to freedom. Side effects include daydreaming about tropical coworking spaces, working with Ryan to learn how you can start working and traveling and buying a one-way ticket to Bali. Get ready to start living your dream life today!

Chapters

• 5:00 Why becky left the UK for Bulgaria
• 11:00 How 2,000+ nomads built a community
• 12:32 What it’s like raising a child abroad
• 17:19 Visas, loopholes, and living in europe long-term
• 23:12 What most coworking spaces get wrong

Transcript

[00:00:00] Ryan Mellon: Have you heard of this European digital nomad hotspot where an apartment costs 60% less than in the UK? Offer skiing in the winter and epic hikes in the summer. Today I sit down with Becky Bottjer, founder of Altspace Coworking in Bansko Bulgaria. After leaving her corporate tech job in the UK, Becky moved to this mountain paradise with her family and built a thriving coworking community that's become a major digital nomad hub in the Balkans.

[00:00:25] Ryan Mellon: Becky gives you insider advice on what she's learned from watching thousands of digital nomads pass through her coworking space. You'll discover how to successfully relocate with children abroad and what makes a coworking space truly valuable for nomads. And the key to avoiding digital nomad burnout.

[00:00:43] Ryan Mellon: Stay until the end to hear the number one mistake Most new nomads make that sabotages their experience from the start Art.

[00:01:00] 

[00:01:54] Ryan Mellon: Today I have Becky Bottjer. Welcome, Becky. 

[00:01:57] Becky Bottjer: ~Hi, Ryan. How are you? ~Thanks for having me.

[00:01:58] Ryan Mellon: ~tell us like, you know,~ you see a lot of digital [00:02:00] nomads come coming through the door. Like, what makes a successful digital nomad versus someone who might be feeling burnt out or you see, do you see any struggles that people are having? ~Um, what makes, what, what, I guess what makes a successful digital nomad versus someone who might be really having a hard time?~

[00:02:11] Becky Bottjer: ~Sure. I mean,~ I mean, I think the people that seem to struggle the most to me are the people that are traveling too fast. They're traveling way too fast. We had somebody,~ um,~ that I. Joined Altspace space for one week and he was really into his running and I quite like running. So during that week we ran together a couple of times and he seemed exhausted and he said, these are all the places I've been to.

[00:02:40] Becky Bottjer: And I said, wow. And he said, and I spend a week. Each one. And I just thought to myself, this is just physically, I can't compute in my head why, why, how, and why you have managed to be able to do this. And a couple of days we've been running together and I think on the third day he said, I [00:03:00] really like it here.

[00:03:00] Becky Bottjer: I've only been here a couple of days. I really like it here and I am gonna stay for three months. That's great business wise. Perfect. He was gonna take a three month membership, absolutely amazing. But more than that, I thought this he, you need to do this. ~Um, ~and I don't know if he particularly did like it in sko, but I think he'd reached a point where he just couldn't continue anymore.

[00:03:23] Becky Bottjer: You have to listen to your body. I think you have to be in tune with what you're doing. Does something feel right? Is there this pressure that you should be everywhere seeing everything? How much of the culture and the reason that you started to become a nomad are you really getting, if you're traveling too fast, you haven't got time to figure out anything, let alone, you know, immerse yourself in the culture of the place that you're in.

[00:03:48] Becky Bottjer: So I think definitely slower travel is. Way to go, I think, and a lot of people struggle with fomo. I think they're scrolling, they're seeing all these travel [00:04:00] influences going here, there, and everywhere, and they're trying to squeeze everything in, and it takes the enjoyment out of it. And a lot of nomads will get burn out from that. 

[00:04:07] Ryan Mellon: For sure. Yeah. Moving too fast is, is a rookie move. And even when I started, I think I did eight countries in six months, which wasn't like a country a week like this guy, but still it was like a. It's a lot. It's a lot to just like, especially when you're working, having to find all the new places, the new grocery store, the new gym, the new co-working space, the place to stay, you know, immigration, this, that, and the other.

[00:04:33] Ryan Mellon: So yeah, I think it's a really good advice and I think I hear that a lot from people just slow down and I would say the 

[00:04:39] Ryan Mellon: same.~ Yeah, I'm really excited to have you here today. ~ So where are you from and where are you at today? I. 

[00:04:42] Becky Bottjer: ~Okay, so, um, ~I'm from the UK from Colchester, which is about one hour from London. ~Um, ~but right now, today I am in Bansko, Bulgaria, which I have made a permanent move to. So this is where I live all the time now. 

[00:04:54] Ryan Mellon: Okay. So why Bansko go and how long have you been there?

[00:04:57] Becky Bottjer: This is a bit of a story. So, ~um, ~[00:05:00] my partner and I started visiting Bansko many years ago. ~Um, ~my partner, I think back in 2004, and then I started visiting in about 2010 just for like holidays and stuff. It's mainly a ski resort, but started to get a bit more popular in the summer as well with various like music festivals and things.

[00:05:18] Becky Bottjer: ~Um, ~and it got to that point, you know, that you've been on a holiday and, and it's finished and you are kind of excited to get back to your own bed and your own life and all of that stuff. We started to feel a bit the opposite, like we felt like this was more becoming our home. ~Um, ~we love the nature. We had local friends, expat friends, and I guess we both lived quite a stressful life in kind of corporate tech back in the uk.

[00:05:44] Becky Bottjer: And we just wanted to make a change and just one day we decided, let's just do it. Let's just go there. We love the lifestyle. ~Um, ~I have a young daughter who loves like activities, sports being outside. So we did that crazy thing that more and more people seem to be doing. [00:06:00] And we just jumped ship and here we are. 

[00:06:03] Ryan Mellon: That's amazing.~ I love it.~ So you're traveling there and you have your daughter there and you also run a coworking space. Is that correct?

[00:06:11] Becky Bottjer: That's correct. Yeah, we set up,~ uh,~ Altspace Coworking. We have three locations now, but we set up in June of 2020 is when we opened. ~Um, ~so yeah, we serve digital nomads, remote workers, expats. We have an amazing community here. So that's me full-time now. 

[00:06:28] Ryan Mellon: ~That's awesome.~ And so I imagine you get to see tons of,~ uh,~ different types of digital nomads coming through your door. Where are the top five countries of, of people that you see coming through?

[00:06:38] Becky Bottjer: I would say at the moment, we are from the UK so we seem to attract a lot of people from the uk, so England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, a lot of people from the us, Germany, the Netherlands, really all over. Some people from Chile. Yeah, all over the world. Really,

[00:06:58] Ryan Mellon: it's a nice,~ uh,~ mix of people [00:07:00] there,

[00:07:00] Becky Bottjer: really good mix of people.

[00:07:02] Ryan Mellon: Yeah, I love that. ~Um, ~it's always good meeting people from other backgrounds and different countries and,~ uh,~ different Definitely keeps things,~ um,~ interesting. So I

[00:07:12] Becky Bottjer: It does keeps it,

[00:07:14] Ryan Mellon: Yeah, I was gonna say spicy and then I used the word interesting, so you read my mind.

[00:07:19] Becky Bottjer: I.

[00:07:20] Ryan Mellon: So what inspired you to open up a coworking space? Like how did you get started?

[00:07:27] Becky Bottjer: So when we actually moved from the UK back in 2018, we had some cash behind us and we wanted to make it like a fresh start here. I guess we were both drained from the corporate stuff, so we handed in the notices to our respective workplaces. ~Um, ~and we were very surprised because back then remote work, especially in education, which is the background that we're both in, it wasn't so much of a thing.

[00:07:52] Becky Bottjer: So we handed in the notices, we said, this is what we're doing, and. My partner's company actually kind of [00:08:00] grabbed him at the Christmas party, which was only two weeks before we were supposed to move here, and said, Hey, like, how would you feel about keeping, keeping your position, keeping your employment, and traveling back to work?

[00:08:13] Becky Bottjer: We kind of thought about it and, you know, the money he was making is, it's, it's good money. You know, you earn UK money and you spend it in Bulgaria. This is, this is a good thing. So we thought about it and they did want him to travel back for a couple of days every week. ~Um, ~and we thought, yeah, let's just do it.

[00:08:29] Becky Bottjer: It takes away the stress of having to worry about when that cash was gonna run out and all those types of things. So he kept his employment. And traveled backwards and forwards and about two weeks after we arrived here, my previous employer reached out and says, Hey, we can't manage without you. Like a lot of legacy stuff.

[00:08:48] Becky Bottjer: I've been there for like 10, 12 years. They said, we dunno how to run this stuff without you. Would you like to do some contracting for us? So I obviously said yes. ~Um, ~it was only like 20 hours a month, but again, it [00:09:00] fitted perfectly. Kind of UK cash goes much further here. ~Um, ~but then what I found is I'm very much like a people person.

[00:09:07] Becky Bottjer: I love to talk, I love to be not necessarily talking all day. Yeah, we've got, we've all got stuff to do. We are working, but even just being in a room with people around me, that energy just, I, I'm much more productive like that. And I found with my partner away all week, my daughter was at school. I was sat at home and I was just going stir crazy.

[00:09:27] Becky Bottjer: I thought I need to, I need to get out. And coffee shops weren't really cutting it. I was in tech. So I really needed like a good connection,~ um,~ a proper desk. And there was in fact one other coworking space here in town. ~Um, ~when we arrived. So I thought I would try that out, but it was actually quite a distance away from my apartment.

[00:09:47] Becky Bottjer: Not only that, but the vibe for me, I, I was, let's just say a little bit older than a lot of the people down there. ~Um, ~and there were a lot of activities going on down there throughout the day that you felt like you needed to be involved in, but I [00:10:00] really just needed to work. So this is when the idea came about of.

[00:10:04] Becky Bottjer: Just maybe just finding like a small space just for me and a couple of friends that I'd met here that wanted similar,~ um,~ to just set something up here and just have like a shared office really. Not necessarily the whole coworking, the whole community thing. Just a little space that I could work in, my partner could work in when he was here.

[00:10:23] Becky Bottjer: So that's how the idea started and it kind of grew from there into what is now something much bigger.

[00:10:30] Ryan Mellon: Awesome. Which is three coworking spaces in banks go. Right.

[00:10:34] Becky Bottjer: That's right. Yeah, that's right.

[00:10:36] Ryan Mellon: And so about how many people do you have come through the doors? Like, ~uh, ~on a very busy week and maybe in low season, would you say?

[00:10:46] Becky Bottjer: overall, since we've opened, we've helped over 2000 nomads find community, whether that be for a day, a week, a month, or we have like permanent members of the community now that have actually got their base here. ~Um, ~at any given [00:11:00] time throughout the winter, there's around 80 permanent members, and then the summer, there's lots of nomad type festivals and things going on here, which strangely enough, has now made the summer even busier for coworking spaces than the winter, despite it being a ski resort.

[00:11:16] Becky Bottjer: So the summer around 120 permanent members. ~Um, ~and then in the low season, yeah, around 50 permanent members. And then it, other than that day passes, week passes, people taking trials, all the events that we run. So we see a lot of people come through the doors.

[00:11:31] Ryan Mellon: That's amazing. You guys are helping a lot of people be productive and build community,~ um,~ as we all know, is so important because there's a lot of single dig digital nomads out there, solo travelers that. You know, it's, it can be lonely sometimes. So one of the best places to, to get that community is through a, is a through coworking.

[00:11:52] Ryan Mellon: So, ~um, ~I think that's really great and I think you saw, you guys saw a need and filled that need and sounds like it's going pretty well.

[00:11:59] Ryan Mellon: you [00:12:00] mentioned that you have a daughter,~ um,~ and I know for a lot of people that are. Wanting to move abroad or even travel abroad, like schooling is a bit of a, ~a, a~ holdback for them.

[00:12:12] Ryan Mellon: ~Um, ~and so I'm just curious like how you, how that transition was with your daughter and, and having her,~ um,~ need to go to school in Bulgaria.


[00:12:22] Becky Bottjer: I think this is a really popular topic at the moment. ~Um, ~so we've been here eight years now. Lily was 10 when we first move over here. ~Um, ~she was. She was quite confident as it was, but she didn't know any of the language. She knew we were moving over here. She knew what that entailed. And we had always said to her from the start, this is what we're doing.

[00:12:43] Becky Bottjer: This is where we're going, but you are the most important thing. If this doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for us. That's really important. ~Um, ~as adults, we have a dream and we wanna do this and we wanna do that. But when you have a kid, it it, there has to work for them too. So we moved here. She joined the [00:13:00] primary school and I think she was just young enough to start picking up on some of the words.

[00:13:04] Becky Bottjer: We got her the lessons. She easily made friends because she was still at that age where it was fun and everybody was interested in her and she was interested in them. I feel if she had have been even slightly older, there definitely would've been a bit more of a struggle with that. So I think with teams it's really important to talk things through with them and make sure that everybody's happy with that.

[00:13:27] Becky Bottjer: She eventually gave up on the Bulgarian lessons because she was learning more in the playground, hanging around with her friends informally than she was that kind of studying in, in a real sense. And now, I mean, she absolutely loves it. And she's, she's nearly 18 now and she has no intention of going back to the uk.

[00:13:47] Becky Bottjer: She has the snow sports, she has the freedom here. Towns like Bansko. Maybe not on people's radar. It's not a big city. You might think that there are on all the services and amenities here that you need. [00:14:00] There definitely are, and it is just so safe. The locals are amazing. Everybody knows her. Everybody knows us.

[00:14:07] Becky Bottjer: She cannot get up to any. Bad because everybody spots it. Everybody messages or calls and says, Hey, we've just seen Lily going off down here. It's late. Is this okay? So in a way, I think she appreciates it, but she's like, ah, come on. I just wanna, I just wanna go out with my friends past curfew, and it is not possible.

[00:14:27] Becky Bottjer: So in that sense,~ uh,~ she loves it. I mean, that we are a good example of it working. ~Um, ~but there's definitely many, many things to think about and does it fit their lifestyle? She goes to conventional school. It's becoming really popular now. A lot of nomads that,~ uh,~ coming through Altspace at the moment have families, they have young children.

[00:14:47] Becky Bottjer: They're choosing world schooling or unschooling. It really, I think, depends on the child, how, how they are socially. Whether they would rather be with you at home, whether you are willing as the [00:15:00] parent to put in the effort to be with them, teaching them out and about with them all day. Lily had already been to a mainstream school in the uk, so that was just a fit for her.

[00:15:10] Becky Bottjer: That just worked best for us. But there are plenty of things to think about definitely. But it's not, it's not a no go and there's so many people doing it now. Even in sko, there's huge groups for digital nomad families. It's really becoming really popular here. 

[00:15:24] Ryan Mellon: I like that. And so not only do the kids are, are they able to like make friends with local kids, but they can also make friends with some of the nomad kids or the people that you know from other countries as well, which is. Kind of cool. They have something in common. Yeah.

[00:15:40] Becky Bottjer: Yeah. There's so many social things going on from barbecues,~ um,~ meetups in like there's a soft play area in town, art things, so many things. ~Um. ~So many different activities that they can do. And I think, like I say, Bansko is a good example of if you've got a kid that really likes nature or sports or being outside, we [00:16:00] have all the four seasons here.

[00:16:01] Becky Bottjer: It's, it's an amazing place to be for kids. ~Um, ~and I think a lot of people, especially parents that maybe have been a little bit like we were in corporate stressed, potentially do have some cash behind them and they're just looking for. ~Uh, ~just a slower pace of living and the kids having the opportunity to be out in the open and not necessarily stuck inside in a city somewhere.

[00:16:23] Becky Bottjer: You know, they're, they're starting to think outside the box a bit, and I think a lot of that really started to come to a head during covid. People were really rethinking what was important for them as maybe a single person or as a couple, and people with families as well. 

[00:16:37] Ryan Mellon: Okay. Yeah. Interesting. So thank you for,~ uh,~ uh, explaining that. I think it's gonna be very useful for a lot of people that are thinking about making that jump, but they, they have kids and, you know, and hearing that other people are out there and they're doing it and they're being successful and the kids are happy with it as well.

[00:16:54] Ryan Mellon: It's huge. So how do you guys manage visas? Do you guys have like a residency? Is [00:17:00] it because of your business? Are you guys able to, ~um. ~Does it, does that make it easier? Do you have to do border runs? What's that situation like?

[00:17:08] Becky Bottjer: For us in Bulgaria, we as a family,~ uh,~ moved here before. Covid. So we were able to apply for sort of a European residency to be here because the UK was still in Europe. So we have our residency. It's really lucky that we do. And moving forward, all of those older rules apply to us. If you are within a European country, you can do the same thing.

[00:17:34] Becky Bottjer: You can fill out the paperwork, you can head to the embassy office, and it's pretty straightforward to to get yourself a visa for here, which is normally a residency visa is for five years. Sometimes they tie it in with your passport, so if you've got three years left on your passport, they might just give you the three years.

[00:17:52] Becky Bottjer: For me, I had two years of my passport. When I renewed recently, but they still gave me the five years. The longer you're here, the easier it is with all the [00:18:00] renewals and things. Since Brexit, if you're from the UK or if you're from the US or Australia or anywhere outside of the eu, it's now the 90 days. So, ~um, ~and we have now entered Schenghen as well, which happened this year.

[00:18:16] Becky Bottjer: So it is 90 days within Europe. So.

[00:18:21] Ryan Mellon: 90, within 180, so right. So ~you can be there 90 days and then you ~you can be there 90 days out of 180, and then you can come back and do another 90.

[00:18:32] Becky Bottjer: That's right. That's right. And it used to be before Schenghen she, that you could spend. All of the 90 days here, and then you could jump to elsewhere, like France or Germany, for example. But since we've joined, those 90 days are for here and anywhere else within Europe, which is a little bit tricky for some people.

[00:18:50] Becky Bottjer: ~Uh, ~there's people that will jump. There's places like Serbia and Macedonia that aren't in Europe yet, so you can potentially dip into those places and Albania and they're becoming really [00:19:00] popular. ~Uh, ~these are all the countries in the UK where we don't think to visit. We have. Let's just say a poor opinion of these places based on historical references.

[00:19:09] Becky Bottjer: But they're beautiful and they're becoming really popular with nomads and they're great places to kind of hop to while you're waiting for things to transpire, so you can jump back in. But there are ways,~ uh,~ even if you're from the UK or from the us, there are ways that you can apply to be here longer term.

[00:19:26] Becky Bottjer: We have people at the coworking from the UK that are applying for Visa DS at the moment, which can give you a one year residency that is based on if you own property over a certain amount, which is a very high amount, or if you have a business already established in the uk, I think it has to have been established for at least three years and earning money.

[00:19:45] Becky Bottjer: So there's ways that, that, you can still settle here, but it's a bit tricky if you're, if you're not from within Europe, let's say.

[00:19:53] Ryan Mellon: Okay. Interesting. Do you think, uh, Bulgaria will come out with like a digital nomad visa?

[00:19:59] Becky Bottjer: [00:20:00] I hope so. It's very popular with Nomad. There are a lot of coworking spaces, even in Bansko alone, and then around the rest of the country, Sofia, there's hubs, big communities. I think it's crucial that they at least start to think about it, and there are enough of us making the noises. The town itself is.

[00:20:20] Becky Bottjer: Really trying really hard now to understand that there are nomads here. They're making improvements all the time with things like travel coming into the town, the infrastructure for the town. They're really starting to get involved and it's great because they're seeing all of these people are coming in and I think a few years ago they would look at an ecstatic dance ceremony that was going on in the square and think, what are these strange people doing?

[00:20:48] Becky Bottjer: What is going on here? And there is like a trust thing here. The Bulgarian are super friendly, but there needs to be a barrier that comes down first before they're. Willing to [00:21:00] communicate and you know, kind of like mix with you a little bit. So I think the more that people are spending more time here, it's becoming evident that this is a good thing.

[00:21:09] Becky Bottjer: We are here, we're spending money, we are creating opportunities and yeah, I think it needs to happen. Definitely a nomad visa would be, would be a good

[00:21:18] Ryan Mellon: Awesome. Yeah, that would be great. And it sounds like you guys are definitely helping,~ uh,~ make the community for better. And the locals are,~ um,~ seeing the benefits to having,~ uh,~ digital nomads in their community, which is, which is the best, you know, you never wanna go to a place where you see on the news where, you know, they're just.

[00:21:37] Ryan Mellon: It's over tour, you know, way over tourism and you know, they just, the locals don't want you there at all. And I always tell people, you know, don't go to those places, just plain and simple. If you're not welcome, don't go. You know, don't make the problem any worse. There's so, the world's so big and there's so many cool places that are welcoming like banks go.

[00:21:57] Ryan Mellon: So,

[00:21:58] Becky Bottjer: That's exactly right, and that's what we've [00:22:00] tried to do from the start that maybe. Differentiated us a little bit from the other spaces is because we'd already got such a history here with the town and we'd already been here for a while. We had a lot of local connections and we've got certain events during the week.

[00:22:16] Becky Bottjer: Our Friday beers is probably the best example of this. We meet every Friday for beers. We provide the biz for members, but absolutely anybody is welcome to come. Non-members just bring your own stuff and it's great to watch. Locals coming in and everyone's chatting and communicating. And a, a local might have a service that's really beneficial to the nomads that are using the space and vice versa.

[00:22:41] Becky Bottjer: And it's just really cool to have people more and more over time mixing and having a better understanding of each other. That was really what we were hoping for.

[00:22:51] Ryan Mellon: Yeah, that's best case scenario. I love it. That's cool. What do you believe makes a coworking space successful for [00:23:00] digital nomads?

[00:23:01] Becky Bottjer: That's a good question. I think two things. Community, 100%. And flexibility. So when I say community, I mean coworking spaces. Everybody kind of thinks of a coworking space as really good internet. I've got a desk, I've got a chair, I've maybe got coffee and tea. That's all I need. Okay. If you're here for a day, yeah, that's probably all you need.

[00:23:27] Becky Bottjer: You just wanna get your stuff done. You wanna pack up, you wanna go home. But if you are here for longer, or if you are traveling alone, you have no connections, you don't know anybody, what use is just a desk in a chair? How is that gonna? Bring you a sense of like warmth and happiness. It's, it's kind of cold, a bit clinical.

[00:23:47] Becky Bottjer: So community for us is really key. And the one thing I would say for nomads is you're gonna get out as much as you put in. If we had every single nomad coming into Altspace, just sat there in silence, working, packing up and [00:24:00] going home, it would probably fail. It would be closed by now. But luckily for us, we seem to have a really strong group of people that know it's important to.

[00:24:10] Becky Bottjer: Connect. They create the community. It's fluid. It's never, it's never the same from one year to the next. It's different based on who's here. So community, I think has to be number one. Number two, flexibility. You're a nomad. You're traveling. You may be employed, you might have your own business. You could have clients all over the world.

[00:24:31] Becky Bottjer: We need to be flexible to you. We are open 24 7. We've got a variety of different amenities in the space, which. And making things flexible for you. We've got cool booths. We've got various different types of chairs and standing desks and like what will be more of a conventional desk. We've got outside spaces.

[00:24:50] Becky Bottjer: It needs to be flexible to suit lifestyle it is that that person is living at the time. Whether that needs to be more serious, whether they're just looking for a beanbag in the corner 'cause they just wanna sit and [00:25:00] watch Netflix or chill or whatever it is that they're doing. Community and flexibility are absolutely key. 

[00:25:07] Ryan Mellon: Okay. Yeah, no, definitely. And I just came from a co-living space here in Bali that ~ ~they didn't do a whole lot to like. Mingles. There was no Friday beers. There was, there's a lunch on during the week. ~Um, ~there's like Monday yoga, which is not my thing. And outside of that,~ um,~ there wasn't a happy hour or anything, a good place to mingle.

[00:25:28] Ryan Mellon: And a lot of people were just really heads down. Like it felt like very officey, you know, like I saw two people in the pool the whole time, you know? And

[00:25:38] Becky Bottjer: good.

[00:25:39] Ryan Mellon: Yeah, it's so, some spaces are better than others that like just creating those events and making the space so that people can interact easily. ~Um, ~and also having events outside of your typical work hours so that when you're done working, you can make friends and,~ uh,~ mingle with [00:26:00] others.

[00:26:00] Ryan Mellon: So I think it's really important and some, a lot of places get that wrong.

[00:26:04] Becky Bottjer: Yeah, precisely. I mean, during the day you'll step into alt space and predominantly everybody is working. There could be a few people having a coffee break or chilling in the garden spaces, but you know, we are all here and that has to. That's, that's a good point to stress as well. We are all here to work, so when you wanna work you can work.

[00:26:23] Becky Bottjer: But when it gets to five or 6:00 PM especially on a Friday, but pretty much most nights there's something going on and definitely at the weekends. That's our time to get to know each other. You are not gonna get to know somebody so well sat opposite them for four hours and you're both really keen to get that project finished or that task done.

[00:26:42] Becky Bottjer: It's just not how it works. You need to focus and concentrate. So that's what we've created. ~Uh, ~as far as like the professional side, there's the space to do that, but then we all like to let our hair down and I am probably the worst for it. And I have got to the point now where. I think a lot of people are questioning when will my [00:27:00] daughter be old enough to take over the fun stuff?

[00:27:02] Becky Bottjer: Because I can't keep up, I can't keep up, I can't, I can't keep up with all the fun stuff. So yeah, that's key. And a lot of people travel actually away from Bansko and come back. Everybody returns at some point and they will always say that they genuinely, there's not many other places they go that the community is as good as what it is in Bansko.

[00:27:23] Ryan Mellon: I love that. Oh, like I keep hearing more and more about it and ~I've heard a lot from Marvin about it and other podcast guests, ~it's, it's gonna be on my list. Maybe I'll make it out this summer for a

[00:27:32] Becky Bottjer: You should. You should definitely come and see us in the summer.

[00:27:35] Ryan Mellon: Yeah. Yeah. I, I do like to ski, but I hate the cold. That's the only thing. So I'll

[00:27:41] Becky Bottjer: Now is perfect. It's really warm now. It's the perfect time to ski. Perfect. It's a bit slushy, but the weather is amazing at the moment.

[00:27:49] Ryan Mellon: Nice. What's,~ uh,~ one unexpected success or positive moment that you've experienced while running the space? Does anything come to mind? 

[00:27:59] Becky Bottjer: I think it probably just [00:28:00] has to go back to the origin story, which is just right back at the start, we had the idea to open the coworking. We found the perfect space, which is our central location, which is our original space. We got the keys, and two weeks later, COVID hit. We had an empty space, we had everything just felt like it had crumbled around us.

[00:28:25] Becky Bottjer: You know, we'd signed all the leases so it wasn't even like, oh, we'll just hand the keys back. This is fine. We'll just forget about this for now. We were stuck, really stuck. ~Um, ~not only was there the lockdown, the whole town was in quarantine, so we couldn't even leave the town. We couldn't, everything was just, you know, everybody remembers how it was back when. So I think our biggest success has been that despite that we opened in the June and it's just grown and grown and grown and we just have the best community. And I know it sounds [00:29:00] really simple and like really cliche, but when you start with such a kind of a barrier immediately to any success, I think the fact that we were even able to open and the fact that we've now got three spaces.

[00:29:12] Becky Bottjer: That's just the biggest success for me is that we, we did it and we survived, and we're okay. 

[00:29:18] Ryan Mellon: Yeah. I love it. You guys really persevered and especially I imagine it was super scary, you know, like opening your first space, new business, just kind of quit your jobs. You're, you're still working, but not,~ um,~ not full-time. At least maybe not as much income as you were used to in the uk. And then Covid comes and.

[00:29:36] Ryan Mellon: You know what, now it's,~ uh,~ yeah. I've seen even here in Bali,~ um,~ several coworking spaces that I went to before Covid that don't exist anymore, the building's there, but it's empty. They didn't make it through

[00:29:49] Becky Bottjer: We were really lucky. I think we had, at the time, it was really scary. We had the lockdown and the quarantine made it feel that much worse. But [00:30:00] then Bulgaria as a country didn't seem, especially within Bansko, maybe the, the rules didn't seem as strict. I think because we are quite far away from any kind of main cities, we are very much in nature.

[00:30:13] Becky Bottjer: I. A lot of people came here to kind of escape. The, the crowds and the, not necessarily the rules. It's not like there weren't any rules, but it was kind of a bit more relaxed. We were video calling family members and friends from elsewhere in the world and we felt really lucky to be here. ~Um, ~things subsided quite quickly.

[00:30:34] Becky Bottjer: We practically moved into that first base. It was a kind of a new building, completely empty, so we were able to spend that lockdown time. Pretty much nearly 24 hours of the day inside that space, looking around it, thinking what would be good in this corner? What would be good over here? What would be good over here?

[00:30:53] Becky Bottjer: My daughter was sat on the laptop doing her online schooling in the corner, and then when that finished, she was out on the street [00:31:00] playing with the kids. So. And Covid was horrible. We can all agree with that, but there were some really good things that came from it. And I think, like I said earlier, people changing their perspectives on how they want their life to look and what really works for them, I think ended up being a positive for us.

[00:31:17] Becky Bottjer: 'cause a lot of people decided, I don't wanna be stuck in this box from nine to five. More and more people are thinking, I don't want my kids to just be stuck in this. Schooling that's really kind of just like a one way thing. They're thinking outside the box, and Bansko seems to be quite a popular place for them to come to, to, to make those decisions or to be in nature.

[00:31:39] Becky Bottjer: The cost of living is much less than in most places. So we were lucky. We were lucky that I think we were here and a lot of other people wanted to be here too. So this was, this was a good thing for us. 

[00:31:51] Ryan Mellon: Awesome. ~Um, ~so you mentioned cost of living. Well, how much would you say, like what percentage less is it to [00:32:00] live there versus where you're from in the uk? Like

[00:32:03] Becky Bottjer: Let's take maybe rent, for example. So to live in a two bedroom apartment in the uk, you're probably looking at around a thousand, say a thousand euros. A month that's just on your rent. You then have all the other bills on top of that, which can go into, again, between five and 600 pounds for your council tax, your electricity, your water.

[00:32:28] Becky Bottjer: It's very expensive here. A two bedroom apartment, maybe 400 euros a month. Water, water bills here are practically non-existent. Electricity. If you are careful about what you put in and you're not using that radiator that was installed 18 years ago in the apartment, you know, you're kind of a bit savvy with it.

[00:32:51] Becky Bottjer: It is just so much cheaper. So much cheaper. And as is the food, the eating out, the activities, I feel there's much more [00:33:00] to do here. I mean, I can't speak for other places in the world. I've mainly only lived in the uk, but the weather in the UK is horrific. And if you know, if you need to go and do anything, it costs money and there's not much that you can necessarily do.

[00:33:13] Becky Bottjer: That doesn't cost an arm and a leg. ~Um, ~whereas here you are outside most of the time. In the winter, even if you like your snow sports, you're out on the mountain or in the summer you are hiking. So there just seems to be so much more to do. 

[00:33:25] Ryan Mellon: Yeah, it's, it sounds like it's a lot less expensive. You're in nature, and I've always heard that the UK doesn't have a sun, so

[00:33:34] Becky Bottjer: It does not. is grey It is grey the time and it makes you miserable. I think it does make you miserable. And here not only does it have a sun, but it also has amazing winters. You've got these great summers, I think it was minus maybe a couple of months ago, minus 15 in the town. And then in the summer we can see 35 degrees.

[00:33:57] Becky Bottjer: Look at that difference between the summer and the [00:34:00] winter. And then the autumn and the spring is also how when you're a kid and you have your books at school and they describe the seasons, we have all of them here. Whereas the UK just has that one, which is kind of stuck between autumn and winter, I think.

[00:34:13] Ryan Mellon: Yeah. Yeah. And it's a big difference. And so for those in the states, it's like, you know, like 40 degrees and to 95 degrees. So yeah. ~Um, ~I love it. I love the broad range of weather and I. ~Um, ~and that you guys are really enjoying it there. What one, one piece of advice do you have for someone that is thinking about becoming a digital nomad, but they're, they're not sure to how to make the jump or, or want to make the jump?

[00:34:41] Ryan Mellon: Do you anything come to mind to give them some advice? 

[00:34:45] Becky Bottjer: Yeah, I. The one piece of advice is can you sustain yourself? Do you have a means to be able to look after yourself? I mean, like money-wise, can you sustain yourself? Are you happy to be flexible? Savings? Yeah. Or do you have a job?

[00:34:59] Ryan Mellon: [00:35:00] Mm-hmm.

[00:35:00] Becky Bottjer: Don't, just don't Jack in everything we, we did, but we knew that we had a fund that would last X amount of time.

[00:35:08] Ryan Mellon: Okay.

[00:35:09] Becky Bottjer: Be sure that you can look after yourself. In that sense, be flexible with, with everything really, you need to be kind of confident in the fact that along the line, along the journey, things will go wrong. Are you happy and safe and confident within yourself to be able to deal with those things? It could be an apartment you, you step into and it's not what you thought it was, or some travel plans that go wrong.

[00:35:33] Becky Bottjer: You need to be strong enough to kind of support yourself in that sense. Because you're likely gonna be on your own until you then start to meet people. And I guess that my one bit of advice is being a digital moment. There is so much information out there now. There are so many groups, Facebook groups for the place, places that you might be wanting to visit, WhatsApp groups.

[00:35:55] Becky Bottjer: There is so much support out there. Digital Nomads, having worked [00:36:00] with them now for four years, are some of the most friendly people. The people that have been in the game for years, they're always willing to give support and advice to people starting mainly because they just wanna tell them all their crazy stories.

[00:36:13] Becky Bottjer: Who doesn't wanna tell somebody about that time that they were stuck here or they're everywhere else? But I love to go out into the garden at Alt Space and just hear like the OGs talking to the beginners. Then there's all these stories flying around. I think my, my biggest bit of advice is get out there, get online, have a look, think about where you're gonna go, and really connect with the place before you go to it,

[00:36:38] Ryan Mellon: Yeah.

[00:36:39] Becky Bottjer: there's so much, there's gonna be so much information there already.

[00:36:41] Becky Bottjer: Don't just arrive somewhere and be like, oh, what, what do I do now? No, you need to, you need to check it out before you get there.

[00:36:49] Ryan Mellon: Yeah, and check out Bansko. 'cause it sounds like a pretty, pretty cool place to be, especially as a digital nomad, especially if you like to, uh, ski or [00:37:00] snowboard in the winter and amazing summers in the mountains. So, yeah. I love it. So where can people find you? 

[00:37:06] Becky Bottjer: Okay, so Instagram is at Altspace bansko, and then our website is altspace coworking.com. Everybody is eligible for a free trial day, so.

[00:37:18] Ryan Mellon: Okay.

[00:37:18] Becky Bottjer: A lot of people will be coming in the summer, which is great. There's lots of festivals going on, nomad festivals, music festivals, so check out what's going on and yeah, we'd love to, to welcome all of you and especially you, Ryan.

[00:37:32] Becky Bottjer: You need to come and check it out.

[00:37:33] Ryan Mellon: I will, I will. I, I'm, I've been sold on it. I've been talking to so many people about it and looking online and on seeing on everyone. Its Instagram and so it's a must now. I, I'm gonna make it out, don't worry. But, uh, yeah, look forward to meeting you in person someday and checking out the space that you guys have there.

[00:37:54] Ryan Mellon: And it was really good hearing your,~ um,~ take on. You know, digital nomads [00:38:00] as, as you help them,~ um,~ through their journey,~ uh,~ with your coworking spaces in Bansko. So thank you again for taking the time out today. 

[00:38:08] Becky Bottjer: Thank you for having me. It's been really great and I hope it will encourage more people to, to get out there and, and live this lifestyle. 'cause I don't think many people regret it for sure. 

[00:38:18] Ryan Mellon: Absolutely. I know I haven't, I'm un I've been unemployable for seven years now. 

[00:38:23] Becky Bottjer: Perfect. That's the best way.

[00:38:25] Ryan Mellon: All right, well thanks again and we'll talk soon.

[00:38:28] Becky Bottjer: Take care. Bye.

[00:38:29] Ryan Mellon: Bye.
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