How This UX/UI Designer Built a Six-Figure Online Business While Traveling Full-Time with Stella Guan, Founder of Path Unbound | EP 34

What if the worst living situation of your life could become the doorway to complete freedom and a thriving online business?

Ryan sits down with Stella Guan, founder of Path Unbound, an online UI/UX design school that helps people transition into high-paying remote careers. Three years ago, Stella was running a struggling furniture business in LA when a toxic living situation forced her to flee in the middle of the night with nothing but a suitcase. 

That terrifying moment accidentally launched her into a nomadic lifestyle that completely transformed how she thinks about business, possessions, and freedom. Stella brings a unique perspective to the nomad community as someone who didn't plan this lifestyle but discovered it was exactly what she needed. 

Chapters:
02:20 – Stranded in Morocco with No Way Back to Europe
07:14 – The Night She Left LA and Became a Nomad
10:32 – Launching a Remote Design School While Traveling
20:48 – Designing and Hosting a Retreat in Rural China
37:35 – Why Changed Her Perspective on "Dangerous" Places

As a successful entrepreneur who's built a profitable course business while traveling full-time, she understands both the creative and practical sides of running a location-independent company. 

Stella breaks down how she turned her design expertise into a course business, why selling all her belongings felt liberating instead of scary, and the mindset changes that help her solve any travel challenge with confidence.

Listen and discover how one night of panic became the foundation for a business that funds permanent travel.

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DISCLAIMER:
Listening to stories of beachside zoom calls, mountainside work views, and island-hopping entrepreneurs may cause severe wanderlust and an irresistible urge to turn your laptop into a passport to freedom. Side effects include daydreaming about tropical coworking spaces, working with Ryan to learn how you can start working and traveling and buying a one-way ticket to Bali. Get ready to start living your dream life today!

Chapters

• 2:20 Stranded in Morocco with No Way Back to Europe
• 7:14 The Night She Left LA and Became a Nomad
• 10:32 Launching a Remote Design School While Traveling
• 20:48 Designing and Hosting a Retreat in Rural China
• 37:35 Why Changed Her Perspective on "Dangerous" Places

Transcript

[00:00:00] Ryan Mellon: What if getting stranded in Morocco with nothing but a handbag could teach you the most important lesson about freedom and resilience? Today, I sit down with Stella Guan, founder of Path Unbound, an online UI UX design school, helping students break into tech, often landing remote jobs, starting around 100,000 a year.

[00:00:18] Ryan Mellon: Her journey began three years ago after fleeing a toxic situation in Los Angeles with just a suitcase. You'll learn how to transition from any background into high paying remote work ~and why she shedding your possessions might unlock deeper freedom. ~ Stella also shares her go-to system for building real connections and nomad circles, and why countries with dangerous reputations might just be the hidden gem.

[00:00:39] Ryan Mellon: Remote workers need to explore. You'll hear how she was unexpectedly left behind at the border with no charger, no food, and no way to reenter Europe up, stay until the end as she shares two crucial insights that separate thriving nomads from those struck with fear.

[00:00:55] Ryan Mellon: ~Hey guys. Welcome to another episode of Digital Nomad Nation. Today I have Stella Guan. ~

[00:01:02] Ryan Mellon: /Welcome, Stella. How are you today?

[00:01:04] Stella Guan: I'm good. How are you, Ryan?

[00:01:06] Ryan Mellon: Doing well. So I saw,~ uh,~ on your social media, you were just,~ uh,~ speaking at Nomad Base. So tell us a little bit about Nomad Base, what it is in, how, how did it go?

[00:01:16] Stella Guan: It's a digital nomad conference. ~Um, ~this time it's two weeks and,~ um,~ I actually joined last, last year. Uh, that was my very first Nomad community event. ~Uh, ~it was longer last year, it was three. And,~ um,~ I really love this community because. ~Uh, ~although it's a conference, it's not too overwhelming. ~Um, ~there are usually 150,~ uh,~ people and you really get to connect with people,~ um,~ either one-on-one or in a group setting, and you learn a lot.

[00:01:41] Stella Guan: ~Um, ~and I really like the organizers. They're pretty dedicated and then, you know, helpful. ~Um, ~so yeah, I mean, I,~ uh,~ last year actually I started my,~ um,~ I, I would say community-based digital nomad journey and I accidentally. Accidentally got stuck in Morocco and it was this very,~ uh,~ very same community [00:02:00] that helped me get back to Europe and I'll never forget them.

[00:02:03] Stella Guan: So, yeah, went really well.

[00:02:05] Ryan Mellon: Okay. Awesome. So tell us about getting stuck in Morocco. What happened?

[00:02:10] Stella Guan: Yeah. So if you're not from the eu,~ um,~ or if you don't have a,~ um,~ let's say an American, Canadian, Australian, whatever, you know, a Western passport,~ um,~ you need a. A visa to get into the Schenghen zone, which I always get. ~Um, ~so I didn't really look at the, the number of entries,~ uh,~ printed on the visa because I've always gotten a Multi entry visa before,~ uh,~ which was usually issued by the Italian consulate.

[00:02:34] Stella Guan: And ~um, ~last year I happened to,~ uh,~ have gotten the visa from the Spain consulate and they apparently do things a little bit differently and they printed single entry,~ um,~ even though I applied for multiple entries. So I didn't really check. It was my fault. And, but,~ um,~ apparently when I exited Spain at the port,~ uh,~ they also were a bit disorganized, so they don't really care what you have, so they don't really remind you.

[00:02:59] Stella Guan: [00:03:00] So, you know, I exited without,~ um,~ knowing that couldn't come back and I didn't even bring my,~ uh,~ anything. ~Um, ~no, no phone charger, no, not much cash, no food, nothing. So I had a handbag, that's it. And when I was at the border, the border police said. You do realize you can't go back, right? And I said no. And so, ~um, ~yeah, they didn't let me go.

[00:03:21] Stella Guan: ~Um, ~so I had to see the rest of my group leave, and then I was just left alone completely. But it was so amazing that the group was. Very, very helpful. ~Uh, ~one person gave me an apple. One person gave me 50 euro cash. Another person gave me a charger. ~Um, ~so it's just one by one before they boarded the ship,~ uh,~ not the ship, the ferry back.

[00:03:41] Stella Guan: They,~ uh,~ just did whatever they could to help me. And,~ uh,~ after that, even when they went back to Spain, they,~ uh,~ offered me help remotely. So one person. From the conference spoke really good Spanish, so she was able to reach the Spanish consulate after many, many calls and I was able to, with her help finally get [00:04:00] into the consulate because you can't just go in, right?

[00:04:02] Stella Guan: Like normally, and their booking system doesn't work and I don't speak French or the Arabic. So, ~um, ~so it was very, you know, a difficult situation. ~Uh, ~but through like with the help of com, the community, I was able to regain entry,~ um,~ into. Eat the EU and got my suitcase delivered to me also. ~Um, ~yeah, it was very, very,~ uh,~ unusual experience, let's say.

[00:04:24] Ryan Mellon: Yeah, and those things happens when you're traveling. You know, it's really easy to overlook something like that and then you get stuck or you have some issues. But it's also great to hear that you had fellow,~ uh,~ nomads, like giving you a hand and helping you out. 'cause that seems to be always the case.

[00:04:40] Ryan Mellon: You know, we. We're all a team and helping each other out when things happen. I know a lot of people have gotten cutting off from their money or whatever. I've done it. I've had it happen to me and had to borrow money from strangers and then wire it to them and you know, it's always something. So, ~um, ~it's nice that, that you were [00:05:00] able to get that all, all figured out.

[00:05:02] Stella Guan: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think it's just,~ uh,~ incredible and extraordinary because these people don't really know me like they just met me a few days ago or a week ago, and I feel like normally if you're living in a big city, it's. Pretty hard to get the kind of help that I received. Right. ~Um, ~because in a, in a big city, there's not really that much of a sense of community and people all have their lives.

[00:05:24] Stella Guan: ~Um, ~so it's really very, very, very different. I, I love it. Yeah.

[00:05:28] Ryan Mellon: Yeah, definitely, different vibes from the,~ uh,~ nomad community versus,~ uh,~ your typical ci ci city dwellers. Everyone has their guard up most of the time, so, so take me back to the moment, time or place that you knew that becoming a digital nomad was, was for you.

[00:05:45] Stella Guan: Yeah. So, ~um, ~I think my story is not really typical because,~ um,~ I think, you know, a lot of people had this awakening moment that they wanna. Become a digital nomad or they wanna travel more. ~Um, ~I, for me, it was accidental. I feel like my life is al [00:06:00] always, I don't know. There are a lot of dramatic moments. ~Um, ~so yeah, I've always loved traveling and I did travel quite a bit,~ uh,~ before I became a nomad.

[00:06:08] Stella Guan: But it wasn't until,~ um,~ when I had real estate mishaps, one after another that I slowly started to realize I'm not really happy with a stationary home. ~Um, ~so the turning point was when I was in LA I. And I was,~ um,~ actually trying to run a furniture brand of my own. ~Um, ~I was looking for a live work space where I could exhibit or, you know, show my furniture as well as live there because renting two places in LA is insane.

[00:06:38] Stella Guan: ~Um, ~so I, after many, many,~ uh,~ months of attempts at finding a place like that, I found, finally found one only to. Discover in horror that it was,~ um,~ actually not legally built and it had like a lot of toxic air issue. ~Um, ~so I, I was there physically for a few weeks and I felt really sick [00:07:00] and so much so I,~ um,~ couldn't breathe one night and I had to run out in the middle of the night and gasping for breath, you know, and I, I basically, I, I was.

[00:07:09] Stella Guan: Panicking and then I,~ uh,~ put everything in my suitcase that I think I would need for the next few weeks. And I checked into a hotel and I called my mom. I said, Hey,~ um,~ I ran out in the middle of the night. Am I crazy? And she heard the situation. She's like, no, you should leave, because that doesn't sound safe, right?

[00:07:26] Stella Guan: So after that, I stayed in a hotel for a few nights and I thought. Wait a minute. Let, let's just, just leave like that, you know, like let's just put everything in storage and see if I can travel for a few months, see how it goes. It doesn't feel that bad staying in a hotel. So, yeah, and I left and I still have the same suitcase and eventually sold everything in the storage as well, so, yeah.

[00:07:48] Ryan Mellon: Wow. Okay, so how long ago was that? How long have you been traveling now?

[00:07:53] Stella Guan: ~Uh, ~three years. So I, I'd say, you know, around three years, three years ago,~ um,~ it was just, you know, something unplanned, but it [00:08:00] turned out to be probably one of the best decisions of my life because I, it all makes sense now. Like I've always loved variety. I.~ Um, ~I don't thrive in the same kind of routine. I mean, I do have some routines, but I need stimulation and, you know, just going to different places.

[00:08:17] Stella Guan: I, I don't mean every day, but, you know, every couple of months. ~Um, ~it's kind of a really nice,~ um,~ you know, both personally and creatively stimulant for me to, to,~ uh,~ make me feel, you know, alive. So, yeah. ~Um, ~three years? 

[00:08:31] Ryan Mellon: and it sounds like you do, the type of work you do might be,~ uh,~ creative as well, so switching up locations definitely helps. I know for me with,~ um,~ the creative juices, just switching locations definitely helps. So tell us a little bit about what you do and how do you, how do you bring in the income to travel?

[00:08:49] Stella Guan: So even before traveling,~ uh,~ full-time, I've started my business. So I think around two to three years before I started my online design school called Path and [00:09:00] Bound. ~Um, ~I'm a designer by trade. I've been a designer before for, I don't know, 10 plus years. And I've,~ uh,~ I had the opportunity to work at different companies, including really big ones.

[00:09:10] Stella Guan: ~Uh, ~so I actually. Quit my job right before the pandemic. ~Um, ~it was sort of a coincidence that I really, really wanted to,~ uh,~ do my own thing and I felt really burned out from the,~ uh,~ corporate world. So I had,~ um,~ yeah, basically dabble into business, in the last couple of years when I was still employed,~ um,~ with a company just because I've, I've always known that I wanted to do something right.

[00:09:32] Stella Guan: ~Um, ~so, yeah. ~Uh, ~and you know, it's. A perfect fit for remote work, obviously, because everything is online and it is creative as well. ~Um, ~even though I don't do design as much these days, I have to come up with creative solutions for a lot of things because there's no textbook for entrepreneurship. ~Um, ~so I consider that very creative.

[00:09:50] Stella Guan: ~Um, ~even if I'm not doing something like traditionally creative, if you will.

[00:09:54] Ryan Mellon: I gotcha. And so that's web, web design, right? That's what you're

[00:09:57] Stella Guan: ~Um, ~it's ui ux design.[00:10:00] 

[00:10:00] Ryan Mellon: Okay, so user, user interface and user experience.

[00:10:04] Stella Guan: Yeah.

[00:10:05] Ryan Mellon: Okay, cool. So do you have employees that work for you or contractors, or how do, how does that work?

[00:10:12] Stella Guan: I have,~ uh,~ quite a few contractors. So, ~um, ~all of our teachers are contractors and they,~ um,~ you know, they are in charge of our students when students select to be paired with them. ~Um, ~and I do have a co-founder as well. ~Um. Uh, ~she's currently ~not, uh, well, uh,~ taking a really,~ uh,~ more, more of a passive role.

[00:10:28] Stella Guan: ~Um, ~but before we were 50, sort of 50 50. And then,~ um,~ that was pretty,~ uh,~ important when we were creating the course. ~Um, ~sort of, you know, really bouncing off of each other's expertise. ~Um, ~but yeah, right now it's mostly,~ uh,~ most of the operations are auth automated with,~ um,~ technology,~ um,~ including AI and, Then now, um, luckily we can focus more on business development,~ um,~ creating new things, new programs, and also running the, you know, the company in a very lean model.

[00:10:55] Ryan Mellon: I love it. That's awesome. And it sounds like you're helping other [00:11:00] people get jobs that are also remote. Is that correct? I.

[00:11:03] Stella Guan: ~Um, ~I would say,~ um,~ a blend and actually we do,~ um,~ have plans this summer to launch,~ um,~ a program that's,~ um,~ more along the lines of this one. ~Um, ~so currently our students, they basically, their main, main goal is to get a job in the design industry, whether it's. Remote or,~ um,~ in, you know, ~um, ~in person and, but,~ um,~ I feel like my, you know, for many years my true calling really is to help people step into entrepreneurship as confidently as,~ uh,~ possible without, I guess, sacrificing any, you know, ~uh, ~safety that they currently have.

[00:11:33] Stella Guan: ~Uh, ~so we're,~ uh,~ actually working actively on launching a program that helps currently employed nine to five employed people,~ um,~ to step into,~ uh,~ entrepreneurship. So.

[00:11:44] Ryan Mellon: Okay.

[00:11:45] Stella Guan: plan.

[00:11:45] Ryan Mellon: That, that's awesome. And so someone who comes to you for schooling to become a UX or ui, UI designer, like if someone were to do that and they are, they're thinking about. Going remote and getting a remote [00:12:00] job because, you know, you can find both in person and remote for, for both of these type of careers.

[00:12:05] Ryan Mellon: What would you say is some, like the starting salary for someone who has,~ uh,~ gone through your courses and is, is,~ uh,~ getting into this?

[00:12:14] Stella Guan: Yeah, I mean, ui UX design starts, I would say higher than,~ um,~ a lot of other industries. ~Um, ~I would say, you know, ~uh, ~around a hundred thousand is not something that is. Unattainable. ~Um, ~I mean, USD,~ um,~ it's actually a pretty good starting point, um, in a big city. I'd say. ~Um, ~I, you know, if you're in San Francisco, that's even more because,~ uh,~ according to data, a hundred thousand dollars in San Francisco is poverty.

[00:12:38] Stella Guan: So, ~um, ~I'd say depends on where you are, right? Yeah. But if you're in, um, non San Francisco, other major metropolitan area, a hundred thousand dollars is a good starting point.

[00:12:49] Ryan Mellon: And if you can do it remotely and live in places that aren't expensive, a hundred thousand dollars, it's gonna go a very, very long way.

[00:12:56] Stella Guan: Exactly. Yeah.

[00:12:57] Ryan Mellon: ~yeah. That's awesome.~ So tell me about one of your [00:13:00] top experiences or adventures that you've had during your travels. I.

[00:13:03] Stella Guan: ~Um, ~I would say, you know, there are so many interesting things that always happen during our travels. ~Um, ~sometimes it almost feels like it's, you know, we're living in one,~ um,~ like one series. I. TV series after another? ~Um, ~it's, yeah, because,~ um,~ if we live in a big city, normally we would have a routine go to work and then, you know, go home and then maybe have some events here and there.

[00:13:27] Stella Guan: But with our type of lifestyle, it's sort of like, okay, here's one retreat. Then here's one co-living, and then here's another conference. So it's sort of like event based living, I would say event based and community based. one of my favorite experiences is attending retreats.

[00:13:44] Stella Guan: ~Um, ~and the last. Yeah. Last year I,~ um,~ attended my first rural retreat in Italy and that was actually really cool because I've never been to a tiny little village where there's absolutely no outsiders or tourists ever, you know, 'cause nobody even knows [00:14:00] about it. Right. ~Um, ~so this guy who is from the village, he organized it,~ um,~ during COVID actually as a, a way to bring remote workers together in a safe, you know, setting back then.

[00:14:11] Stella Guan: And it expanded. I joined and it's,~ um,~ it, yeah, it's really cool to see how people live,~ um,~ a simple life. ~Um, ~and also how to sort of integrate,~ um,~ in, you know, a a a a society that's less convenient, let's say,~ uh,~ which is kind of a learning. Curve, you know, for a lot of people who are used to the big city life.

[00:14:30] Stella Guan: ~Um, ~and also, you know, Italy is famous for the La Doche Vita and you kind of really experience it there, you know, simple life and then,~ uh,~ wine and bread and, you know, pasta every day. So yeah, that actually inspired me to host my own retreat, which we could talk about later. But yeah, it's, it's one of those simple experiences that are in non-traditional.

[00:14:53] Stella Guan: Toury settings that are really valuable.

[00:14:56] Ryan Mellon: Just getting,~ uh,~ especially having a, a local [00:15:00] guide or someone setting everything up that can kind of show everyone the ropes, bring people together, that really helps with the experience as well. I can imagine. ~Well, you just,~

[00:15:09] Stella Guan: ~Yeah, sorry.~ In a small village, it, it would be impossible without a local host, right? Because you don't really know the people there, and there's no Airbnb, no hotel, nothing at all. So you can't just possibly barge into a village and be like, Hey, where can I stay? You know? There's no way to stay.

[00:15:24] Stella Guan: Yeah.

[00:15:25] Ryan Mellon: Yeah. Yeah. No. So where did you guys end up staying? Did he have a big house or rent out some spaces for you guys? What did that look like?

[00:15:34] Stella Guan: Yeah, so the host, he's ~from the,~ from the Village, obviously he knows everyone. So he was able to source,~ um,~ you know. Some village people who are, have the extra rooms and they have been thinking of renting them out. So we're all kind of scattered around people's homes,~ um,~ to be honest. And,~ uh,~ it's nice because it's such a small village, it doesn't feel like we're very far away.

[00:15:54] Stella Guan: ~Um, ~although we're not in the same building, it's pretty impossible to be in the same building unless. Somebody buys up a, an [00:16:00] abandoned church and rebuild it with 5 million Euro and then turn it into, you know, a co-living, which hasn't happened yet, but it might, you know, who knows? Yeah.

[00:16:09] Ryan Mellon: That would be cool. So what was the name of that village?

[00:16:12] Stella Guan: ~Uh, ~it's called Toury. It's in the, the south of Italy in the bas kata region. And it's very,~ um,~ I'd say I love it because it's,~ um,~ I, I love the mountains and it's really on top of a mountain. ~Um, ~it doesn't have much like a lot, a lot of things to do, but I feel like if you just want to experience low life focus and enjoy, you know, your summer, that's, that's perfect.

[00:16:37] Ryan Mellon: ~Awesome.~ Love it. And you mentioned that you do some retreats as well, so tell us a little bit about that.

[00:16:43] Stella Guan: Yeah. So actually right after that, I,~ um,~ started thinking about, you know, creating my own retreats. ~Um, ~I, I normally, you know, ~uh, ~I'm not really a, haven't been a community organizer myself at all, but I then started to see all these. Other nomads who [00:17:00] are organizing retreats in their own country. And,~ um,~ I feel like China's missing from the map.

[00:17:04] Stella Guan: ~Um, ~where I'm from, it's,~ uh,~ a, a very, I, I would say misunderstood country. And also it's not easy to navigate,~ uh,~ just because of,~ uh,~ language barriers and the systems completely different. You cannot just pay, pay by credit card. You have to set up. Everything differently, right? In the Chinese system. ~Um, ~so, so yeah, I, I, I feel like, you know, not many people are doing it or at all, so let me bring people to my own country to see what it's really like rather than, you know, the typical tourist experience is not so good,~ uh,~ most of the time.

[00:17:33] Stella Guan: Or people, you know, just have a lot of, ~um. ~Preconceptions about, you know, what my country is like because of the media. ~Um, ~so yeah, I'm really,~ uh,~ glad that I had this thought and I spent the summer researching it. Right, right. After attending the re, you know, the Italian retreat as an attendee, I went to my, my country to scope out, you know, locations and see what's possible.

[00:17:54] Stella Guan: And then I found one then that I, then I launched it and we just finished our first,~ uh,~ edition [00:18:00] in March and April of this year. And, uh, it went pretty well. Yeah.

[00:18:04] Ryan Mellon: Oh, congratulations. So what did you guys do? What did, what did the days look like? How many people did you have?

[00:18:09] Stella Guan: Yeah, we had a really small, intimate group, which was perfect for the first time. ~Um, ~because you know, as a first time organizer you have. You know, there's so many logistics that you had to take care of, and also you, you don't really know what's right, what's wrong. ~Um, ~so we had had around like eight people, I would say, and then we were really a tight-knit group.

[00:18:29] Stella Guan: ~Um, ~most of them are from Europe,~ uh,~ one from the US and ~uh, ~we were actually in a small town,~ um,~ in China. ~Uh, ~apparently we,~ uh,~ there are, ~uh. ~500,000 people. But,~ um,~ that's a small town where one of our, one of our Dutch,~ uh,~ attendees said, well, that's bigger than the capital city of, of this country. So, but apparently, yeah, it is very small.

[00:18:49] Stella Guan: Yeah. So everything is walkable and people are,~ uh,~ they enjoy slow life and they don't rush much, and there's a lot of,~ um,~ good food. ~Um, ~apparently the region produces wine,~ uh,~ and [00:19:00] blueberries. ~Uh, ~it's very interesting. Yeah, so we actually co-worked during the day or worked,~ um,~ in our room if we wanted to.

[00:19:06] Stella Guan: And then every night we had,~ um,~ classes. Mostly Chinese cultural classes, like Chinese paper cut calligraphy and ~um, ~you know, Chinese language. So I arrange a class almost every day. And then we had a group dinner after. And then during the weekends we go to regional, you know, sites,~ um,~ for sightseeing. So we trips.

[00:19:29] Stella Guan: Yeah. So, ~um, ~the whole retreat was one month and, um, yeah, most people stayed the month while some people stayed for two weeks. So it was, it was,~ uh,~ a really awesome experience.

[00:19:37] Ryan Mellon: I, I have been to China. I was in Shanghai for 72 hours on a, on like a pass through, pass through visa, you know, just transit visa and I did find it very challenging. Just everything was so very different and the language barrier was really hard. ~Um, ~and I wish I had come on your retreat because [00:20:00] I think I would've probably had a much easier experience and it would've probably been a little less.

[00:20:05] Ryan Mellon: ~Um. ~Like frightening at first. But,~ um,~ I really, I really did enjoy Shanghai and the city and all I had to offer, it was like a very high, so I was not expecting to see just so how high tech it was and flashy and ~um, ~some Lamborghinis and stuff like that on the streets and, and the crosswalks that would light up when it's time for you to go and.

[00:20:30] Ryan Mellon: Felt like Mario Kart. I thought it was pretty cool. So

[00:20:34] Stella Guan: Yeah, no, Shanghai is one of the best cities in China. And yeah, I mean China and really, I would say East Asia is very high tech. ~Um, ~we just love conveniences technology and that's, that's why sometimes, you know, you go to a small village, you're reminded,~ um,~ oh, I guess we could still survive without those.

[00:20:51] Stella Guan: But it is good to have a balance. Like sometimes you go to a high tech place, sometimes you go to a non. High tech place to, you know, reminisce the, the good old [00:21:00] days. But yeah, I'm glad you've been to China and um, and Shanghai is a good representation of what,~ uh,~ typical, you know, big city life is. ~Um, um, ~but, but I usually, when when I do my retreat, I, I tend not to do it in big cities.

[00:21:11] Stella Guan: It's too overwhelming. So, smaller cities, yeah, still high tech, but not as flashy. ~Um, ~but it has more of the, you can get to the local, know the local's vibe, you know, like, ~uh, ~really. More of a happy blend, you know, happy

[00:21:24] Ryan Mellon: Yeah.~ Yeah. No, I love it. That sounds really great.~ That's really cool that you're doing that and I'm sure, so you'll, when's the next one coming up?

[00:21:30] Stella Guan: Yeah. The next one is December of this year, ~and, uh, it's roughly around six months away. And, um, ~yeah, we're gonna do it in another city. That's slightly bigger, but not so big. It's called Guilin, and it's actually famous for its,~ um,~ beautiful mountainous landscape and rivers and,~ um,~ yeah, everything, it's in the shape of an animal,~ uh,~ the mountains.

[00:21:46] Stella Guan: ~Um, ~it's, well, it's, use your imagination, right? It's not actually sculpted to be like animals. ~Um, ~but ~um, ~yeah, we're gonna stay another month,~ um,~ of course. And the regional food is absolutely amazing. ~Um, ~even better than the first edition. So excited for that. Yep.

[00:21:59] Ryan Mellon: [00:22:00] Very cool. So you say we, are you traveling solo or are you traveling with a partner, friends, family.

[00:22:05] Stella Guan: ~Uh, ~I'm traveling solo. ~Um, ~when I say we is mean, like me and the attendees, right? Yes. ~Um, ~traveling solo and um, of course when I go to China, I see my family. And that,~ um,~ you know, usually I'm not alone there. ~Um, ~but when I've traveled my first year when I was traveling, you know, at first,~ um,~ I was completely alone and that felt okay.

[00:22:28] Stella Guan: ~Uh, ~but I really wish I had more interactions with people. So that's why the second year I started to shift my travel patterns to be event-based community-based. So I'm technically never alone. ~Um, ~if that will, you will. Yeah.

[00:22:42] Ryan Mellon: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. No, I mean, I think a lot of us digital nomads are,~ uh,~ traveling solo and. Going to events and being in digital nomad hotspots,~ um,~ and where there's co-living and co-working spaces and having that community is so important because you're only alone when you feel like you wanna turn off and just go back [00:23:00] to your room and, you know, not, not be social anymore.

[00:23:04] Ryan Mellon: So you, you can just kind of flip that switch.

[00:23:07] Stella Guan: Mm-hmm. All right.

[00:23:08] Ryan Mellon: So do you,~ uh,~ how, how often do you go back home? Do you consider, do you have like a home base at all, like apartment, house, or are you full-time just on the road?

[00:23:18] Stella Guan: Yeah, currently full-time homeless. ~Um, ~no home. I sold everything in the storage. I did have a storage for,~ uh,~ a year,~ uh,~ in the beginning and it's. I feel like it costs more than an apartment. ~Um, ~so it's, you know, kind of crazy. Like I don't use most of the stuff anyway. ~Um, ~so that was a huge process, you know, going through.

[00:23:34] Stella Guan: I had a 30 by 30 storage

[00:23:38] Ryan Mellon: wow.

[00:23:38] Stella Guan: which is huge. I know, it's insane because I had my furniture inventory as well, the leftover,~ um,~ and I had to call an auction house to. Take all of them. So it was quite an experience. Yeah. But then you realize, you know, once you go through your storage unit, you're like, what is this?

[00:23:54] Stella Guan: I've never seen this before. Why do I have this? You know? Right. So it's kind of a, [00:24:00] a sort of an awakening experience. Like we really need to shed as much as possible and even. Till now. I mean, I'm not really the most lightweight traveler, you know, I don't travel with a backpack. That's impossible for me. ~Um, ~so I, I am still trying to make my, you know, suitcase lighter.

[00:24:17] Stella Guan: ~Um, ~but I do go to China to visit my family now at least two times a year. ~Um, ~and I, you know, I would consider that my Asia home base. Right. And I'm looking for maybe two more. I like Europe, I like, you know, the Americas. So I hope to have one in Asia, one in Europe, and then one in the,~ uh,~ the Americas, let's say.

[00:24:38] Stella Guan: So, yeah.

[00:24:39] Ryan Mellon: That's, that's a great idea. And 30 by 30 is like 900 square feet, which is like

[00:24:45] Stella Guan: An apartment.

[00:24:45] Ryan Mellon: small house in, in the us. So that, that kind of, that probably how were you feeling like getting rid of all that stuff? Like how did it feel like, was it exciting? Was it,~ um,~ [00:25:00] difficult? Tell us about that.

[00:25:01] Stella Guan: Yeah, it was liberating, of course. ~Um, ~I,~ uh,~ I didn't think that would be the feeling though, because before I became a nomad, accidentally, I was very attached to my belongings. I had, I. A furniture brand. I dabbled into furniture design and I collected all these, like really quirky, eclectic, cool, I don't know, furnitures that I,~ um,~ really love.

[00:25:22] Stella Guan: But, but then I, I, I don't know why, like, my mindset just shifted because I feel like I'm not really happy surrounded by these objects anymore. It's not bringing me that much joy. Sure. They're good to look at. Once in a while, you can't just look at them and feel like, wow, I'm so happy. You know? I don't know.

[00:25:39] Stella Guan: But, but yeah, like before I was super attached to things, but then once I made up my mind, I'm not attached to them anymore, I just let them go. And then,~ um,~ it felt really freeing because it feels like, okay, I have everything that I need with me. I am actually less vulnerable. Let's say, especially, you know, when I see these [00:26:00] natural disasters, right?

[00:26:00] Stella Guan: Like, like, ~um, ~earlier this year, the LA wildfire, which destroyed many, many things, almost everything. ~Um, ~and I just feel, I don't know, weirdly fortunate in a way, because I feel like I, I only have my suitcase with me. I have nothing to be burned down. Like, you know, it's, it's kind of, I, I know it's, you know, really, like a lot of people lost so many things, but.

[00:26:22] Stella Guan: In a way, like being homeless sometimes, right? Like you feel a bit more safe, you know, in that way,

[00:26:28] Ryan Mellon: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and it's intentionally a homeless, right? As a digital nomad. ~Um. ~I tell people all the time, I'm homeless and unemployed, but, uh,~ uh,~ just to get good, just to get reactions out of 'em, you know, I work, I'm self-employed, I work for myself, but I could never work for anybody else at this point. And, uh~ ,~ but like, yeah, you're, it's a good point that you bring up about ju just having.

[00:26:54] Ryan Mellon: Everything you need in a suitcase and even 95% of that. If it were to [00:27:00] just disappear one day, I'm sure you could go out to the store and buy pretty much all of it back, right?

[00:27:05] Stella Guan: yep. It's okay. We don't really need that, that many things. We just need air in our lungs and we just need meals, some clothes to keep us warm. That's it. Yeah.

[00:27:16] Ryan Mellon: That's right. A couple flights in between and seeing cool places and, and, and, yeah. Love it. That's awesome. So what's, what's something that you wish you knew, you knew before starting this journey? Is there anything that comes to mind?

[00:27:32] Stella Guan: yeah. ~Um, ~I'd say I think a lot of people are really stressed about traveling, which is understandable because there are so many unknown. Things that you don't, you wouldn't be able to predict, you cannot control. And I think that's,~ um,~ sort of a, a reflection of life in general because. We tend to want to control things, right, because it feels safe.

[00:27:53] Stella Guan: But,~ um,~ the process of traveling, I feel like I've also learned to let go of the, the [00:28:00] desire to control everything and, and just trust in ourselves that we can solve problems when it, you know, when problems arise, like we will. Cross that bridge when we get to it. Right. ~Um, ~that's a famous saying, but ~um, ~a lot of people, especially I feel like,~ um,~ when, you know, when they don't travel that much, it's like a big thing.

[00:28:16] Stella Guan: It's like something that they argue with,~ um,~ their loved ones with. Right. And sometimes,~ uh,~ close friends break up because of that, you know, they can't agree on how to travel, you know, what to do. ~Um, ~so I think, you know, that's one thing that I feel like a lot of us learn. As, um, frequent or full-time travelers.

[00:28:34] Stella Guan: And that's something that I wish more people could,~ um,~ start seeing, you know, ~um, ~that it's okay, you know, like everything is fine. ~Um, ~just plan whatever you can plan and then deal with problems when they arise,~ uh,~ calmly as much as possible. Yeah.

[00:28:48] Ryan Mellon: It's really like regular life, right? You're gonna have just problems that show up at your door, whether you're staying at ho in one place your whole life or whatever. ~Um, ~traveling around the world, it's no different, [00:29:00] right? ~Um, ~there are different, there are different challenges of course, that come along with travel, but the more you do it, the more confident you get.

[00:29:08] Ryan Mellon: And,~ uh,~ you don't have that fear of the unknown as much as people really when they're, they're at home thinking about. I wanna live this lifestyle. ~Um, ~there's just a, a ton going through their head and it's like, look, just get out, get out the door, book that flight, get out the door and do it, and go from there.

[00:29:26] Ryan Mellon: You'll figure it out and there'll be plenty of people to help you along the way. I.

[00:29:30] Stella Guan: A hundred percent. Yeah. I, I think it also really takes,~ um,~ I mean, I, I think it trains your resilience, right? ~Um, ~because you have to, because on the roads, you don't have anyone but yourself to rely on. And I, I, I do think that a lot of people find that very, you know. ~Um, ~scary, which is understandable.

[00:29:50] Stella Guan: ~Um, but yeah, I, I, I, I, you know,~ I wouldn't trade this for anything because I feel like resilience and problem solving skills are fundamental in life. Yeah.

[00:29:57] Ryan Mellon: Yeah, and travel really teaches you those [00:30:00] things, you know, being flexible, resilient, all those. So that's awesome. ~Uh, ~how would you describe a typical workday,~ uh,~ while you're traveling?

[00:30:09] Stella Guan: Yeah. ~Um, ~so nowadays I don't, you know, with the exception of a few events that I go to, which is, you know, like this period,~ um,~ in the past few weeks I've been traveling a lot. ~Um, ~I usually stay in one place for a few months, so it's not really that different from if you're, you know, already staying in one place.

[00:30:26] Stella Guan: Right. So I would usually start my morning with some, well always eat breakfast and then I do some emails, really get things out of the way in the morning. ~Um, ~I am,~ um,~ I'm not, I'm not a morning walk or jog kind of person, but I do wanna stretch out a little bit,~ uh,~ do some light exercises,~ um,~ just in my room or.

[00:30:44] Stella Guan: Balcony, that type of thing. And then I spent some focused time,~ um,~ during the middle of the day. ~Um, ~I think that's where, you know, when I think the best, I, I'm not really a, a working at night type of person. ~Um, ~I am pretty tired at night. I wanna. [00:31:00] Relax. But I also like dancing. So at night,~ um,~ I'm not tired when I'm dancing, so basically I go out dancing at night.

[00:31:06] Stella Guan: Right. ~Um, ~so that's my exercise. My gym, I don't go to the gym. I go to dance instead. So work, I would say emails in the morning, deep focus, work middle part of the day, and then wind down a little bit in the late afternoon time. Then dance and then sleep. Yeah. That's my

[00:31:23] Ryan Mellon: Awesome. ~And so how do you find places, um, that you want to dance? Is there any like specific like groups or, um, um, I. I guess like, what, what am I trying to say?~

[00:31:24] Stella Guan: ~yeah. Yeah. No, I know what you mean. Uh, maybe there's not a word. I don't even know~

[00:31:24] Ryan Mellon: ~uh, because you're,~ I know that you, you mentioned that you were really into Bachata, so are there events that cater to this? This,~ uh,~ dance.

[00:31:33] Stella Guan: Yep. Yep. Absolutely. Yeah. So we call it socials. ~Um, ~so yes, every big city has,~ um,~ a few, quite a few. And that's,~ uh,~ really cool because you just make sure you, you're in a big size city, then you'll always find a community. And the even more like cooler thing is,~ uh,~ the nomad community actually has a lot of people who are into this as well.

[00:31:52] Stella Guan: So you'll always have a bit of an overlap of, you know, people who are similar to you and this lifestyle who also love dancing [00:32:00] or, you know, regular, I say, you know, city dwellers who also love dancing, right? So there are organizers in every city. You just,~ um,~ start with an Instagram sort of like search, you know, Instagram has this algorithm, right?

[00:32:11] Stella Guan: Like you follow one, they suggest another one, and then you, you know, search that way. And then you also search,~ um,~ on Google. ~Um, ~you find, you know, like these accounts or,~ uh,~ this list and actually. It's not very easy to find, I would say. So I started creating articles based on cities and apparently the SEO is pretty.

[00:32:29] Stella Guan: Fast to pick up. Right. ~Uh, ~a few people I met in person, they're like, oh, I found your article, like, you know about dancing here. And I was like, oh, already I just wrote it a few weeks ago. You know? So yeah, I test them out. I, you know, put on information like, oh, this is best for what,~ um,~ so that people know.

[00:32:46] Stella Guan: ~Um, ~so I guess like I've started to do that based on my research to make it easier for people. Yeah.

[00:32:52] Ryan Mellon: ~Uh, ~that's very helpful for the community. ~Uh, ~get together and enjoy some dancing. Awesome.

[00:32:58] Stella Guan: absolutely.

[00:32:59] Ryan Mellon: What is [00:33:00] one place that you think is underrated in your opinion, and can you share a specific day or experience in that place that make you fall in love with it?

[00:33:09] Stella Guan: Yeah, I recently fell in love with Columbia. ~Um, ~I, I am, you know, I know that Columbia actually within the digital nomad community now, it's pretty popular. A lot of people go to Columbia,~ uh, ~especially medellin to,~ um,~ be, you know, a digital nomad. It's a, a help now there are so many. Great events happening all the time.

[00:33:28] Stella Guan: Huge community and amazing climate. It's,~ uh,~ one of my favorite climates,~ um,~ because I, I like,~ um,~ temperate climates. I, I don't like too, too hot or too cold and I don't like,~ um,~ a lot of humidity or rain. So like, ~uh, ~medellin is. Through super, you know, I'd say right in the middle, right, like all year round.

[00:33:47] Stella Guan: There's no change. For some people that might be hell because they like seasons. So I, I, I've seen enough snow and,~ um,~ I know where to find snow, so, you know, this is like the best climate for me. And, and Colomb [00:34:00] unfortunately had this, you know, longstanding reputation of being, dangerous, being, you know, like the.

[00:34:05] Stella Guan: Capital of drugs, but it's really not true anymore. And ~um, ~people really have to see it for themselves. Right? So I keep reminding myself too, and to be honest, before I went, I was a little concerned myself because I've never been there and I've heard these things, you know, ~uh, ~the same way that other people have heard.

[00:34:22] Stella Guan: And as soon as I got there, I was. So nicely surprised because it's so beautiful and,~ um, uh, ~and, and actually it's,~ uh,~ pretty modern and the road condition is pretty nice. ~Um, ~it's actually nicer than a lot of other Latin American countries that,~ um,~ you know, have better reputation, you know, so, ~um, ~I, I'd say,~ uh,~ first of all, a lot of people.

[00:34:41] Stella Guan: You know, are afraid because they are afraid, not because it's really dangerous, you know? So. Yeah. And,~ um,~ I think,~ uh,~ the other thing is,~ um,~ you know, even like with countries that are currently have current crisis, like actual political crisis, right? ~Uh, ~I've met people from those countries and. [00:35:00] They were telling me that it's okay, like people are still living the same way, like mostly fine.

[00:35:06] Stella Guan: ~Um, ~it's not that, you know, there's no problem. Of course we acknowledge there's a problem, but there's no need to be so afraid that you would never give it a chance. ~Um, ~so yeah, I would say Columbia, especially medellin has become one of my top choices to go.

[00:35:20] Ryan Mellon: Yeah, it's a very good spot and I was there a couple years ago. It's also, the nickname is the City of Eternal Spring. So yeah, it's beautiful. Like, ~uh, ~you know, 75, 80 degrees and sunny pretty much like every day, all year round. And there's tons to do and there's huge, huge nomad community now.~ Um, ~never felt unsafe there.

[00:35:42] Ryan Mellon: ~Um, ~lot, you know, lots going on. Great food, good people, great place to practice some Spanish, and,~ uh,~ just really enjoyed the time. So, ~um, ~going to places that, you know, may have bad, had a bad reputation, especially a long time ago for medellin, you know, things change [00:36:00] over time. So giving new, new,~ uh,~ places a new chance is important.

[00:36:05] Stella Guan: very much so. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

[00:36:07] Ryan Mellon: So do you have any biggest lessons learned or biggest mistake that you've made while nomad?

[00:36:13] Stella Guan: ~Um, ~yeah, I mean, I feel like I'm constantly learning. That's the beauty of this type of lifestyle. ~Um. ~Of course, you know, we're learning all the time no matter what environment we're in, but I feel like this lifestyle sort of forces you to look inward a lot and then really,~ um,~ grow at an accelerated,~ uh,~ pace.

[00:36:32] Stella Guan: ~Um, ~I'd say the. The first thing is to,~ uh,~ because in, in, you know, ~um, ~like in in normal society, I'd say in a big city we tend not to trust people so much. Right. ~Um, ~'cause everyone, like you said, had their guard up, have their own lives. ~Um, ~so, you know, while traveling, I really. Started to see more of the good in humanities.

[00:36:53] Stella Guan: ~Um, ~and, and I, I feel like we've forgotten that a lot,~ um,~ you know, in a regular,~ um,~ environment. So that's,~ uh,~ lesson number [00:37:00] one is to,~ uh,~ first of all, of course not be naive, but second of all, always remember that ~um, ~most people are good people and they're willing to help. ~Um, ~and you know, sometimes we don't have to.

[00:37:12] Stella Guan: ~Um, ~you know, rely on ourselves so much, right? Like we could,~ um,~ trust other people to help us,~ um,~ as well. Yeah. And, and, and, and then the other thing,~ um,~ it's just the, the same thing that I touched upon is always make no assumptions. ~Uh, ~and then really try to get any preconceptions,~ uh,~ in your mind that you may have heard somewhere or learned somewhere out of your head.

[00:37:31] Stella Guan: And give everybody, every place,~ um,~ sort of a fair look before you make an aj ~uh, ~a judgment. ~Um, ~because I've met really more surprisingly, a a lot of experienced nomads who still have a lot of preconceptions about places that I feel like that's,~ um,~ surprising, first of all. And then maybe a little unfortunate.

[00:37:48] Stella Guan: Yeah. So, so, you know. Yeah. Those are the two biggest lessons.

[00:37:52] Ryan Mellon: Okay.

[00:37:52] Stella Guan: Yeah.

[00:37:53] Ryan Mellon: Very good lessons. All right, so as we wrap up, I have just a couple rapid fire questions. ~Um, ~Um, what is [00:38:00] one unexpected item that you would never travel without? And so that doesn't include your laptop, your phone, passport, or wallet.

[00:38:10] Stella Guan: Yep. ~Um, ~I have quite a few. ~Um, ~some people would never think to bring those, but I, well, ~uh, ~because we stay in different environments, right? Like some good places with everything equipped, some less ideal places with bare minimal things or some things that you just don't have. So I travel,~ um,~ actually I just got it this,~ uh,~ past,~ uh,~ summer.

[00:38:31] Stella Guan: It's a. A hybrid,~ um,~ cooker. Like it's portable, like you can boil water in it. You can actually cook like oatmeal in it, like just everything you can like, like, you know, put some pasta inside and then just boil it. And then it is like a nice meal. And it's very lightweight because it's like, you know, it's like, just like a little cup like that, but it's ~um, ~you know, it's like a bowl, but it's like, you know.

[00:38:53] Stella Guan: Very, very good. ~Um, ~so I, I always travel with that to make sure that I always have a nutritious meal,~ um,~ wherever I [00:39:00] go. So that's one thing. Yeah.

[00:39:02] Ryan Mellon: Love it. Love it. Yeah. You can make it, use it,~ uh,~ to heat water for coffee and tea as well, right? Yeah.

[00:39:08] Stella Guan: Cook heat, like whatever, just,~ um,~ your whole day is taken care of if you want to with this.

[00:39:14] Ryan Mellon: do you have a favorite,~ uh,~ coworking space that you've discovered, and where is it?

[00:39:18] Stella Guan: ~Um, ~I would say I have a favorite co-living and co-working space. ~Um, ~it's the one called The Social Club in Chiang Mai, Thailand. ~Um, ~it's a really rare place, I'd say, because I've been to, since I've been to a lot of co-living, co-working space that are. Cool. That are okay, I would say. ~Um, ~but this place has, I don't know what it is though.

[00:39:41] Stella Guan: They always attract really cool people, and then their,~ uh,~ community managers put in a lot of effort in organizing these activities that makes a whole co living experience look like a retreat, but it's not. Right. So you are like, their, their space design is also really good because. Very communal, but then you also have the [00:40:00] choice to be like, pretty private if you want to.

[00:40:02] Stella Guan: So it's,~ um,~ I'd say the space design community,~ um,~ you know, aspect community design, let's say. ~Um, ~it's very, it's very, very good. So I'd say that's,~ uh,~ probably the gold standard for co-living coworking.

[00:40:15] Ryan Mellon: Okay. Okay. I'll have to put that one on the list.

[00:40:17] Stella Guan: Yeah. ~Mm-hmm.~

[00:40:18] Ryan Mellon: ~Uh, ~tell me a place in your opinion that has the best food.

[00:40:22] Stella Guan: Best food. ~Uh, ~wow, that's hard. I mean, so many great places. I'll break it down to continents probably. ~Um, ~so in Europe, I, well, ~uh, ~I, I like Greece. ~Um, ~Greek food is to my. Well, my, to my palate,~ um,~ that's the best,~ uh,~ it's really affordable in European, by European standard, and it's so fresh. ~Uh, ~the, if you love seafood, that's, you know, your best place, right?

[00:40:45] Stella Guan: ~Um, ~so I love Greek food, uh, closely followed by Italian. And then for Asia,~ um,~ I love my own food. Chinese food, that's the best. ~Um, ~although is Asian food, like Korean and Japanese and Chinese are all my favorite. ~Uh, ~but of course China has way [00:41:00] more variety, so. I'd say Chinese food is the best,~ um,~ in Asia,~ uh,~ east Asia i's say.

[00:41:04] Stella Guan: And then,~ um,~ for,~ uh,~ the Americas, I'd say,~ um,~ Peruvian food,~ um,~ probably it's something that I really like. They have,~ um,~ amazing amount of seafood. I, I'm a seafood lover. ~Um, ~so, so yeah, the, their food is really good. Yeah. Not Colombian food, unfortunately. I mean, it is nice, but they only have five varieties, like five food.

[00:41:23] Stella Guan: I don't know. Not too many varieties. Yeah. Good

[00:41:26] Ryan Mellon: It's, yeah. Yeah. There's not a lot of variety in in Columbia.

[00:41:30] Stella Guan: Yeah.

[00:41:31] Ryan Mellon: Gotcha.~ Well, awesome.~ Well, thank you again for taking the time today. And before we go, where can people find you?

[00:41:37] Stella Guan: Yeah, they can find me,~ uh,~ on social media,~ um,~ at Instagram, at Stella dot Guan. ~Uh, ~that's my Instagram. And also,~ uh,~ you can visit my,~ uh,~ the China retreat website, which is,~ uh,~ China digital nomads.com. And,~ um,~ also on,~ uh,~ Instagram as well. it's. The handle is slightly different called digital nomad, China. ~Um, ~so, so yeah, these two places.

[00:41:59] Stella Guan: ~Um, ~[00:42:00] you can definitely find me.

[00:42:01] Ryan Mellon: Awesome. Alright, well thanks again for taking the time outta your busy schedule and your travels, and I hope you have a great rest of your week.

[00:42:09] Stella Guan: Thank you.

[00:42:10]