Retiring Early in Da Nang, Vietnam: The Step-by-Step Path to Achieve Remote Income and Location Freedom with Youtuber, Evan Eh! | EP 38

What if you could retire early without winning the lottery or building a million-dollar business?

Host Ryan Mellon is joined by Evan from the Cost of Living Abroad podcast. While his friends back in Toronto are still grinding away at their desk jobs, Evan is raising his two young kids in tropical Vietnam, running his business from beachside cafes, and watching his savings account grow all without the stress of corporate life or massive startup costs.

You'll learn why Evan believes the traditional retirement path is completely backwards, and how he turned an average teaching salary into a wealth-building machine. 

Chapters:
06:54 – Landing in Mexico for the First Time
15:45 – How Teaching and YouTube Became a Business
22:14 – Why Retire in Vietnam
27:03 – What Life Actually Costs in Southeast Asia
32:00 – #1 Tip Before You Move Abroad

He reveals the staggering difference between what life costs in North America versus Southeast Asia and explains why this approach isn’t about being cheap, but being intentional with your money.

Evan breaks down how to start building location-independent income before you ever leave home, so you’re not just burning through savings while you travel. He walks through the exact steps he took to transition from classroom teacher to online entrepreneur and why starting small might be the key to lasting freedom.

If you’ve ever looked at your monthly expenses and wondered how you’ll ever get ahead or if you’re tired of putting your dreams off until “someday”  this episode will give you a new lens. Evan’s story shows that with the right plan, you don’t have to wait until 65 to live the life you want.

Listen now and take the first step toward your own location-independent life

Follow Evan's Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@evan_eh/featured

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DISCLAIMER:
Listening to stories of beachside zoom calls, mountainside work views, and island-hopping entrepreneurs may cause severe wanderlust and an irresistible urge to turn your laptop into a passport to freedom. Side effects include daydreaming about tropical coworking spaces, working with Ryan to learn how you can start working and traveling and buying a one-way ticket to Bali. Get ready to start living your dream life today!

Transcript

[00:00:00] Ryan Mellon: What if I told you a single postcard could change your entire life? That's exactly what happened to today's guest, Evan Jordan. That simple gesture sparked a one way journey that led to two and a half years living in Mexico, learning Spanish, teaching English, and ultimately discovering a whole new way of life.

[00:00:17] Ryan Mellon: Today, Evan is a Canadian teacher turned entrepreneur who spent the last six years living in Southeast Asia. He achieved early retirement in Vietnam, not by hitting a million dollar savings school, but by using fire principles with a twist. You'll learn how Evan saved 80% of his income. How to calculate your true cost of living abroad how to start earning online income before you even leave home 

[00:00:41] Ryan Mellon: Stay around until the end because Evan shares the exact calculation he used to know when he had enough to retire. That might completely change how you think about financial freedom.

[00:00:58] Ryan Mellon: Hey guys, welcome to [00:01:00] Digital Noman Nation, where we inspire and empower you to achieve location independence and live life on your own terms. Today we have Evan Jordan. Welcome Evan.

[00:01:10] Evan Jordan: Hey man. Thanks for having me on, Ryan.

[00:01:12] Ryan Mellon: Yeah, very looking forward to this conversation. So. You were working at Starbucks and you got a, postcard from a, a customer that, uh, took you on quite a journey. Tell us a little bit about that.

[00:01:25] Evan Jordan: Yeah, it was really like, you know, the lowest point or one of the lowest points in my life. I, I just finished my college degree. It was just after the financial crash in 2008. You know, I had, I think that post-college malaise, or maybe a quarter life crisis is what they call it now. And, uh, a guy had given me this postcard, this beautiful image about old, sort of, you know, scenic colonial town in Mexico called Guanajuato.

[00:01:53] Evan Jordan: And it just kinda set a piece off in my head, or turned a key or something for me. Didn't think [00:02:00] about it, just, you know, stuffed it in my knack. And at the time I really, I really never traveled. I hadn't left home a lot. I, I've been around with my family maybe a few times, but. It, you know, in my twenties, I, I wasn't like a, a backpacker or, or a gap year kind of guy.

[00:02:16] Evan Jordan: And then my, uh, my grandmother died and she left me $3,000 and it just felt like, I don't know, you know, all the events lining up some sort of like, concatenation, and I was like, I gotta go to that town, you know, I gotta go to this place in the postcard Guanajuato. So I, I bought a one way ticket. actually by, by train at the time.

[00:02:36] Evan Jordan: So I got on the union train station in Toronto, you know, and then I, hitchhiking is the wrong word, but, you know, I, I felt very like Kerouac esque. I went like Toronto, Buffalo, Chicago, down straight through the middle of America to San Antonio. Uh, ended up in El Paso and then I, I met a bunch of sort of like guys who've been working on the railroad at this little like, uh.

[00:02:59] Evan Jordan: Tiny [00:03:00] motel in El Paso and they all told me like, Hey man, don't go to Juarez. I guess that that land crossing there between El Paso and Juarez is one of the, uh, most dangerous places in the world or something like that at the time. There's, you know, literally like all these narco stories and sort of nightmare stories happening.

[00:03:17] Evan Jordan: they ended up telling me, you gotta go to California. So I, I ended up continuing my journey, getting on a bus, heading all the way out to the Pacific Coast, and I was just like, I. Starstruck. You know, I'd never seen the ocean like Pacific Ocean before in my life. Even though I was, I don't know, 26, 27 years old, loved San Diego.

[00:03:37] Evan Jordan: Kept going south all the way to down the Baja Surf for another like a thousand kilometers or whatever, caught the ferry over to Mexico, Mazatlan, which is by then I literally was like stepping into the, the footsteps of Jack Kerouac. That's one of the places where he spent a lot of time and, uh. From there, I actually got on a website, which I, I'd never heard of in my [00:04:00] life.

[00:04:00] Evan Jordan: At the time. It was, keep in mind, it was maybe 2009. It was, uh, couch surfing and you had to like, at the time dial up modem, like in an old, uh, internet cafe on a desktop computer. And I found a couch and Guanajuato took a bus to Guanajuato, and it was just like, that was it. My life was changed forever. You know, I ended up living there for like two and a half years learning Spanish, teaching English.

[00:04:24] Evan Jordan: I never wanted go back.

[00:04:26] Ryan Mellon: that's amazing. So couch surfing on dial up internet, finding someone to, to let you, uh, sleep on their couch for free in Mexico. A

[00:04:36] Ryan Mellon: place you've never been. So tell us about this place. Like what was so amazing about it? How did it feel being there?

[00:04:43] Evan Jordan: Honestly, it felt like to the city where I'm from, I'm from Toronto, you know, it's a sort of the big commercial white collar banking business center of Canada. It's the biggest city in Canada, but it, it is a very gray place. You know, it's cold weather [00:05:00] eight or nine months of the year. it, it, it's got culture, it's got atmosphere.

[00:05:05] Evan Jordan: It's certainly a multicultural place. But there isn't a lot to do, you know, the things that people do there, like go to restaurants or, or drink or, or whatever that, that sort of like go going out nightlife culture, there's no, historical culture, right. The, the whole city is concrete skyscrapers. It might look like Chicago if you're gonna compare it to an American city.

[00:05:29] Evan Jordan: Right. And I, I step off the bus in this little town in Mexico. And Guanajuato, it is shaped like a hammock, right? So the whole city is in this like bowl and up two, two big ascending steep cliffs on either side. And it's like, it looks like a Crayola box of crayons. There's like yellow pastels, blue pastels, pinks, greens, oranges.

[00:05:52] Evan Jordan: And there's also like this famous old mining town, uh, the Spaniards, one of the big reasons they were there during, uh, the colonial days, [00:06:00] the conquistadors. It was to mine, silver and gold. So when you step into the cathedrals and the church is there, they're like literally plated in gold and silver. And it just felt like, honestly, it felt like I'd stepped out of a, a black and white movie into a, into full color.

[00:06:15] Evan Jordan: You know, for the first time in my life, I,

[00:06:18] Ryan Mellon: Wow. That sounds awesome.

[00:06:20] Ryan Mellon: And so it sounds like you also found some way to make some money and do a little bit of work while you were there too, to stay there for two and a half years. I imagine you weren't on, uh, whoever's couch the whole time. I.

[00:06:33] Evan Jordan: well, I, I actually did end up dating one of the people in that, and it was original house for four people. It was like a col four college kids. And I was, you know, I just recently graduated from college, so I did stay connected to someone from the house, but, but I had to earn my keep eventually. Yeah.

[00:06:50] Evan Jordan: Yeah. And this was, man, this was before. Uh, maybe before the iPhone, maybe not. The iPhone might have just been released, but certainly like no one, no one had one, right? There's no [00:07:00] concept of like apps or social media. So it was like you, you just had to hit the ground. I literally remember, printing resumes in Guanajuato because I knew I didn't want to go home, but that, that money my grandmother left me.

[00:07:12] Evan Jordan: The $3,000 is running out. So it was sort of pre, pre-digital nomad, I guess it was like an analog nomad existence. But I did the classic thing. I, I went to the local college, and I got a job teaching English. I think it, it paid about 50 pesos or something an hour. It was about like three, $4. Uh, but it was enough, you know, it was enough to sustain and to stay there for a while.

[00:07:35] Evan Jordan: and then I ended up learning Spanish. 'cause at the language exchange I was able to take free language lessons. Because I was an employee there, so it worked out pretty good. Mm-hmm.

[00:07:46] Ryan Mellon: That's awesome. So two and a half, two and a half years there. And then did you go back to Toronto?

[00:07:53] Evan Jordan: no, I didn't. I, uh, no, I really, I was hooked. There was no way I was going home, at least not forever. I, [00:08:00] uh, I went to San Francisco actually, so I went to San Francisco because I was. The money thing was becoming an issue, you know, even to like travel around Mexico and Central America. I've been doing trips like in Belize and Guatemala, some other parts like that.

[00:08:14] Evan Jordan: Doing some hiking and cycling love. Really love seeing like the Mayan and uh, Inca sites there. And even in Mexico, you know, cost more than $4 an hour to, uh, to travel. So I went to San Francisco and, uh, same thing. At the time it was, it was all analog. So just old school, I literally, uh, showed up. With an apsac went door to door at all the hostels.

[00:08:36] Evan Jordan: I, I must have had like a lonely planet or a rough guide or something. And I just walked up to each hostel in San Francisco and said, Hey, I'm looking for work. I'm looking for a bed. and I think about the, the third or fourth one I walked into, they basically said, well man, can you clean toilets? You know, can you change bedsheets?

[00:08:55] Evan Jordan: uh, yeah, that was it. It was a place called the Adelaide, beautiful little hostel right near Taylor and post [00:09:00] downtown San Francisco. I ended up there for, uh, gosh, I don't know, five, six months, something like that. And I sort of slow travel, slow nomadic travel, uh, back up the Pacific Coast to Vancouver.

[00:09:15] Evan Jordan: But I mean, it, it probably took me. A year to get from Guanajuato back to Vancouver. That time, you know, stopping, working hitchhiking, seeing the, uh, what's the fa I forget the famous highway route out there. anyways, whatever, uh, one of the famous highways in California, it might just be highway number one.

[00:09:34] Ryan Mellon: one, yeah.

[00:09:35] Ryan Mellon: I think one. It goes all the way, uh, up the coastline and it's.

[00:09:39] Evan Jordan: Yeah, that's right.

[00:09:40] Ryan Mellon: Like, yeah,

[00:09:41] Ryan Mellon: I've been that. 

[00:09:43] Evan Jordan: This was probably, I guess, 2011 or something where I had gone to Mexico right after the, the financial crash. So, um, yeah, it would be about 2011, 2012. And I was like, I slowly worked my way back up San Francisco after I spent a bit of time in la then San [00:10:00] Francisco, lodged myself in San Francisco for a bit, was working, uh, it was pretty cool.

[00:10:05] Evan Jordan: I was doing tours too, so I actually, like, I started doing the toilets and like the, you know, the worst job in the place. But the turnover is so fast at the hostel that within a couple weeks I was like cooking the big collective dinner in a kitchen for whatever, you know, 30 or 40 Europeans and backpackers and people just from all over the planet, speaking every language you could imagine.

[00:10:26] Evan Jordan: and at the Ti Man, I remember there used to be a sign in the, in the, uh, social room, like the whatever, the hostile living room, and it literally said. Laptops are not welcome. This is a social space, not not phones, right? Like laptops. So,

[00:10:42] Ryan Mellon: Yeah.

[00:10:43] Ryan Mellon: And I like your, I like your start on like, you know, your, your kind of analog nomad at first, because I think that, you know, before, even up to about 10 years ago, digital nomad really wasn't too big of a thing. I remember my first [00:11:00] trip to Costa Rica in 2016. I really didn't see very many laptops.

[00:11:05] Ryan Mellon: There wasn't. Digital nomad wasn't even a word. And I met a lot of people working in hostels that were doing the same thing you were.

[00:11:14] Ryan Mellon: Working a couple hours a day to stay for free and just, you know, winging it, jumping on buses and going to the next place and finding the next hustle to stay for free at.

[00:11:26] Ryan Mellon: And I just love the spirit of it all and I think it, it's a great way to travel and it's still something that exists today. Like if someone doesn't have digital nomad skills and they wanna travel and they don't mind staying at a hostel like you can work. Work your way around the globe doing all kinds of things.

[00:11:45] Ryan Mellon: Even, you know, if you, you don't feel like being on the computer or you don't have the skills as a digital nomad. So I think that's cool to look back and, uh, see, see your roots there. So tell me, like, at what point did you kind of [00:12:00] transition into like digital work and, living abroad? Because right now you're, you're living in Vietnam, is that correct?

[00:12:08] Evan Jordan: Yeah, that's right. So I'm, I'm in Da Nang, Vietnam now, which is kind of a. I would say burgeoning or fast becoming a digital nomad hub. It's, it's definitely, it's growing organically, but I think also with, with intention, the Vietnamese government has changed some policies and done some stuff to really try and, uh, attract digital nomads and other expats and make it an attractive place, to, to live right, not just to, um, not just to spend a weekend.

[00:12:38] Evan Jordan: But my transition here was again, was, it was kind of analog. So I actually ended up becoming a teacher from that very first job I got in Guanajuato, Mexico. I ended up going back to Canada first getting um, uh, like toefl, the teach English as a foreign language certificate. and then later getting an actual, uh, you know, like college bachelor's [00:13:00] degree teacher's certificate in Canada.

[00:13:02] Evan Jordan: Uh, and I just, I, I hopscotched I would go back, do a little bit of education, and then I'd go abroad and, uh, teach some more. So all around Australia. And then I spent some time in China, as well. It was pretty incredible. And then when I came to Vietnam, I'd done both. So I'd done at that point, this is 2019, I'd done like.

[00:13:25] Evan Jordan: The online English teaching, you know, which is pretty amazing and is still totally available to anyone who's a digital nomad, I should say right now. And you often just have to be up at odd hours. 'cause you're, you're often catering to a student group in China or maybe India or somewhere. You're not people, students in the Middle East do.

[00:13:48] Evan Jordan: And you might be on whatever Europe time or Western time or Latin American time. But, uh, I, the job I came to Vietnam for was, uh, in-person teaching at an international school. And then [00:14:00] when I was there, COVID hit and I'd had some sort of like food and travel blog stuff I'd done in the past. but it had been, you know, more for fun than as an income.

[00:14:12] Evan Jordan: I had made some money off of it, like I'd written up like. Food review blogs and done like, sort of like PR pressors in Toronto where I'd go and interview a restaurant and they'd, uh, you know, they'd comp your meal and pay you for it. Uh, but I, I never like, supported myself or made a real, whatever, like made a living off of digital work until COVID hit.

[00:14:36] Evan Jordan: And then I just started posting everything. Like I was in a classroom with no students and just this exact setup I'm talking to right now as we like literally the same camera, the same mic, everything, a different desk. But that's it. And I had to record my lessons for my students, but I just started posting 'em on YouTube.

[00:14:59] Evan Jordan: No, with [00:15:00] no, you know, ulterior motive. No further goal. It was just the easiest and freest way to upload video content and a lot of video content, and get it in front of my students. So I started doing it and I think I kind of, I accidentally stumbled on what is probably the most successful strategy for YouTube, which is really consistent posting.

[00:15:26] Evan Jordan: In one very specific, uh, topic or niche. So I was posting like literal lessons from the exact curriculum for the exact age I was teaching, and they didn't go viral or anything.but I got thousands of viewers and, and almost immediately, you know, so like I, I got a really consistent little fan base of three to 5,000 teenagers who were watching every single lesson I was posting.

[00:15:54] Evan Jordan: And we're like, really? Like I, I don't know what the descriptor is here. They [00:16:00] were so appreciative that it made me reconsider the whole notion of teaching in person. 'cause you teach in person 'cause you wanna add value to someone's life, right? Like you want to make this kid's life better. You wanna hope they have a positive outcome.

[00:16:14] Evan Jordan: By coming through your classroom, and all of a sudden I had like thousands of teenagers writing me like really heartfelt messages being like, oh my God, you know, this lesson you posted made me get an A on my test. It saved my semester. you know, you, you, you saved me. I thank God I found your video. You saved me hundreds of hours of work.

[00:16:33] Evan Jordan: And it was just like, it was so obvious right away to me.How that, that the, the internet, YouTube, social media, whatever you wanna call it, had like exponentially grown the amount of value I could provide. Just doing exactly what I've been doing at my desk job.

[00:16:53] Ryan Mellon: Love it. Love it. So at that point, that's when you knew that, uh, you could start bringing some [00:17:00] income in

[00:17:01] Ryan Mellon: to help with your travels. Is that right?

[00:17:04] Evan Jordan: Yeah. So at that point I was like, at first it was like, I was like literally in a school build an empty school building recording lessons. Then a few months later, things, you know, you know, everyone went through the pandemic, right? And it was different in different places. But a few months later, all of a sudden I was at a homestay in rural Vietnam surrounded by beautiful green rice fields.

[00:17:28] Evan Jordan: Doing the exact same thing, and it was just as effective. And it was like, you know, my total mind blown and, and it, it was just so obvious to me instantly too, that I could just reach out to these kids and say, Hey, like, do you want extra tutoring? So like, at first I, I was just doing service stuff, right? I wasn't selling digital products or anything.

[00:17:49] Evan Jordan: I was literally just like. Teaching the kids, like offering them paid, paid teaching, paid tutoring, that kind of, you know, where you sell your time, uh, and value [00:18:00] for, for money on the internet. And it's, again, it is like, that's just not something that existed when I'd started my career.

[00:18:08] Ryan Mellon: Like one-on-one co. Like your one-on-one Zoom.

[00:18:12] Evan Jordan: Uh, I do one, I do one-on-ones. I do one, one to a few, one to many. So you could have like, you just be like, we're, I'm gonna host a study session on this thing, you know, I also did, you know, at the time I wouldn't have called them like lead generators 'cause I was, I literally wasn't collecting emails.

[00:18:28] Evan Jordan: I wasn't building an email list. Uh, but I started selling some like very cheap digital products, like study guides, checklists, things like this. And then people, the people who bought those products, I would like direct, respond to them. Again. Like I, I had no sort of like backend newsletter, email list, nothing like that happening.

[00:18:49] Evan Jordan: It was really just super direct. It was like, Hey Tim, I saw you bought the study guide for, um, you know, whatever syllabus. Do you need help with that? You know, and, and if the answer was [00:19:00] yes, it was like, cool, I charge 50 bucks an hour. I have a group meeting Tuesday at 8:00 PM Do you want in? Right? Like that, that kind of thing.

[00:19:08] Evan Jordan: Like real, uh, yeah. Direct call sales and sales. And, but also I didn't feel, I never felt bad about it or like, whatever, greasy. 'cause I, I knew, I like right. I knew what my value was. I knew what I was gonna provide to these kids. I taught kids this exact curriculum, these subjects before, and help them succeed.

[00:19:28] Evan Jordan: So I knew that I could do it, in a direct way. And I should say too, like I taught at schools that charged, some of 'em charged 10, 20,000, $30,000 a year. So like, you know, asking someone to pay you 50 bucks an hour to sit in on a whatever small group session is like, it's a deal. It's not,

[00:19:50] Ryan Mellon: definitely.

[00:19:52] Ryan Mellon: And, and I like that you reached out to your clients and, and asked them what they needed. Right. And you helped. Build, [00:20:00] give them additional value, right?

[00:20:02] Ryan Mellon: So that's really important. And it's not, it depends on how, like you set up your lead generation and stuff. Now it's like, it, it gets a little bit harder to reach out to, find out what your clients need like, than it used to be.

[00:20:17] Ryan Mellon: You could just maybe give them a phone call. No one wants to pick up their phone anymore. But, uh, I like that, that you, you figured out what they wanted and, and filled that.

[00:20:28] Ryan Mellon: Build that void and, and, uh, provide a value, which is always a great way to make money, and it's always a win-win for both sides.

[00:20:35] Evan Jordan: Yeah. I think it to some extent now, having grown a much bigger and wider audience. In some ways it's, it's actually much harder to sell to that bigger audience 'cause it's harder to find the right, you have to, you know, there's a lot of different value props you could put out there. A lot of different offers or things.

[00:20:55] Evan Jordan: You know, there's all these different sort of bend diagrams when you're talking about 50,000 or a [00:21:00] hundred thousand people. Whereas like when you're sharing, and I, I mean this is real advice too for someone looking to start their own business, whether it's through YouTube or a different discovery platform.

[00:21:12] Evan Jordan: If you have a very clear thing that you can do that will help even just 100 people. I mean, like that is a solid goal business in my mind. Right? Like 

[00:21:26] Ryan Mellon: Yeah, absolutely. Kevin Kellywho founded Wired Magazine, he wrote a very good art article about, it's called 1000 True Fans. And he is like, if you can get a thousand true fans, you're set for life because you can just, all you need is a hundred dollars a year from your a thousand true fans.

[00:21:48] Ryan Mellon: That's six figure income. And you know, when you have the entire world. As your audience, how hard is it to really, to get a thousand people that are, you [00:22:00] know, looking at the, like, looking for what you have to offer.

[00:22:05] 

[00:22:06] Evan Jordan: so I can say exactly the, the subject that I was teaching, like I was teaching in a very particular curriculum and about, I think it's about a hundred thousand students are enrolled in that curriculum at any given time. So if you think there's a hundred thousand people in a very direct way in the, in the market I was in, if I could literally get one in a thousand.

[00:22:29] Evan Jordan: 'cause you know, I mean the math was just so simple. Yeah. It was just so simple. and yeah, I think the, in fact the reason that I, that I don't do that anymore and that I changed paths and that I retired was because, it was. Too close to my whole career, right? I've been a teacher for 17 years.and I kind of realized after doing that for a year or two, that like, yes, I could transition away from the classroom and into the online [00:23:00] space, but was the right, like I was, I was then gonna set myself up in this position where I would have another 20 year career, uh, doing the exact same thing, but by myself and that, you know, that's, I.

[00:23:13] Evan Jordan: It's kind, there's a lot of good things about being in, in an in-person workplace, especially with young people and with kids that I think you lose online.

[00:23:20] Ryan Mellon: So you mentioned retiring, and uh, we were talking earlier about geo arbitrage. So tell us a little bit about. Like how, how your strategy was to retire early using geo arbitrage and, and what you're kind of doing now.

[00:23:36] Evan Jordan: Yeah. So I. I live and have lived in Vietnam now for about six and a half years, on and off. I went back home for, for a little smidgen during, uh, during COVID. But when I came to Vietnam, I knew that I was gonna make less money than I would in somewhere like China or, uh, the Middle East or something [00:24:00] like that.

[00:24:01] Evan Jordan: But I had, I'd talked to enough people, and by this time too that, you know, this is much later, this is 2019. So like, not only have I read like wolf pots vagabonding, like I read Tim a Tim Ferris, the four Hour Work week. You know, like the sort of like word is out on a lot of, uh, a lot of the things like geo arbitrage and you know, how you can outsource some of your work or find digital assistance and stuff like that.

[00:24:25] Evan Jordan: And, and just the sort of. The model to build a solopreneur, one person online business. and of course bloggers too, right? Like I was religiously reading a money mustache. He's like a Canadian guy who did I think 

[00:24:39] Ryan Mellon: Missed our money. yeah, 

[00:24:41] Evan Jordan: Money mustache. That guy that he did like a kind of financial independence, retire early thing.

[00:24:47] Evan Jordan: and I didn't use that 4% number. But I knew that, like when I was working in Vietnam, it was pretty easy for me to save about 80% of my salary, sometimes [00:25:00] more because I had a, I had a housing allowance, I got health insurance, and my school had a cafeteria that fed me. So if, like, if you think about Maslow's hierarchy.

[00:25:13] Evan Jordan: I mean, at least, at least the bottom three layers of the pyramid were covered. Right? So it was, it was really just about me choosing if I wanted to spend money or not spend money.and the way the calculation I actually used was that I hit a point where I had enough cash that I knew I could live for a decade in Vietnam, the way I was currently living.

[00:25:38] Evan Jordan: Um, without earning a penny. And that to me was just like, that's a really long time and it didn't, again, it's not, didn't matter what the number is, right? Like, I think it's a misnomer to think like you got in your head, I need $200,000. I need half a million dollars. I need a million dollars. No, for the first thing you need to know, like when I talk to people who want to do [00:26:00] this, who wanna move to Vietnam.

[00:26:01] Evan Jordan: The first thing you need to know is how much money it costs you to live in one of these places, because the number is different for everyone, right? Some people come over here and they just want to improve their quality of life, right? So they're still gonna spend $3,000 a month, but what you can get for $3,000 a month in Thailand, in Kuala Lumpur, is drastically different than what you're getting for $3,000 a month in San Francisco.

[00:26:27] Evan Jordan: or even in like. I dunno which Cleveland, right? Like your, your quality of life's gonna just like rock it up. But then for other people it's like, well, I feel good in this apartment that costs $240 a month. If you feel good in an apartment that costs $240 a month, like that means your, your whole year's rent is gonna be under $3,000, right?

[00:26:50] Evan Jordan: Like there's a lot of things you can do online to make $3,000. I don't know if I'm gonna say easily, but how about quickly? There's a lot of strategies [00:27:00] out there to quickly make $3,000 online, and if you can, if you can do anything to quickly make enough money to pay for your rent for the entire year, you know, now you can start talking about reducing your, your work and your schedule, right?

[00:27:13] Evan Jordan: You can change your whole life.

[00:27:14] Ryan Mellon: Yeah, no, it's an interesting point because, a lot of people think moving abroad or living abroad or even traveling abroad is, is expensive. But, you know, it's important for those that don't know what geo arbitrage is. It's, it's basically earning, money in a country that has high cost of living and spending it in a country that has a low cost of living. So. your money just goes so much farther and it's, it's a really good point and especially if you wanna to re retire early, uh, and live in somewhere like Dandenong, which has, beautiful beaches and is, uh, pretty, pretty good weather all year round. That's, that's definitely one way to do it. and I think that's great that that's what you've done. So what do you, [00:28:00] what is your main focus now that you're retired, living in Vietnam? What do you do to stay busy? How do you spend your day?

[00:28:09] Ryan Mellon: walk us through that.

[00:28:10] Evan Jordan: Yeah. So I have, uh, for, I'll talk first about the, what I do to stay busy, how I make money, what, what my sort of, uh, retirement income, whatever is my. My, uh, my savings and my net worth are actually, they're increasing. Even though I'm, I'm working less. I'm not, I'm not spending my savings, at all. So I have a couple different YouTube channels, that are tied into a website.

[00:28:32] Evan Jordan: It's actually, it's called the Cost of living abroad.com. And then the podcast is the Cost of Living Abroad Pod. and essentially I help other people do the math, figure out their numbers and the logistics and process of. Visas, banking, healthcare, and also destination. Like where in Southeast Asia does someone want to move or live or where is gonna be best suited to them?

[00:28:59] Evan Jordan: Uh, and it's, it's [00:29:00] really specifically for mostly Americans, Canadians, maybe a few grits or Aussies. But yeah, it's, it is really about Americans and Canadians relocating to Southeast Asia. And then, um. I also have my own personal YouTube channel, which is called EA, like eh, a Canadian, uh, with a little Canadian flag emoji.

[00:29:21] Evan Jordan: And that channel is connected to the business, but it's also more personal. It's also more like where I share my cost of living in Danang Vietnam for a day, or maybe where I share, like a side trip I took with my family to Kuala Lumpur and stuff. So it's, it is tied back into it, but it's also a little bit about.

[00:29:40] Evan Jordan: About me, who I am. And also I think it's a, it's a window into like living this life right into what it looks like actually to be retired early in Southeast Asia or to be doing like, sort of slow nomadic travel. And then, um, the other thing that keeps me busy is two kids. So [00:30:00] I'm, I'm married, I have a Vietnamese wife who I met when I was in Saigon.

[00:30:04] Evan Jordan: And we have two small children. 

[00:30:06] Ryan Mellon: So I'm sure they keep you busy every, every day. How old are they?

[00:30:10] Uh, two and three. Yeah, like two and three.

[00:30:12] Ryan Mellon: Okay,

[00:30:13] Evan Jordan: So I kind of like, I probably would've stayed at my job for another five or 10 years and just kept, kept making bank like, I mean, the other big thing you wanna know about if you're planning any kind of early retirement or savings is compounding and how compounding works.

[00:30:30] Evan Jordan: both in savings and earnings and everything, but so yeah, I would've stayed for another four or five years and just kept adding money. But two things happened. One, I had two little kids and we were living in a big smoggy polluted city. Ho Chi Minh City. AKA Saigon is an amazing place and I would highly recommend visiting it, but it is one of those cities, you know, the Asian mega cities that some days the A QI is 160, 180.

[00:30:58] Evan Jordan: the traffic is [00:31:00] chaotic, is intense, is insane. It's the kind of place that can feel super freeing and liberating when you're on vacation or if you've just got in an airplane off of an airplane, sorry.but like less so if you need to like, get a baby car seat into the back of a minivan taxi to take your toddlers to go see their grandparents and the, you know, five mile drive takes three hours because there's a flooded highway.

[00:31:28] Evan Jordan: Like the life situation. Yeah.

[00:31:30] Ryan Mellon: It's a very chaotic place. My very first, uh, experience in Vietnam was in Ho Chi Minh. I just remember getting out on the streets the very first morning, and it's just absolute chaos. You know, the, the packs of motorcycles trying to cross the street, it's like Frogger. You just go, they don't hit you somehow.

[00:31:52] Ryan Mellon: It's a miracle. But, uh, turned this corner and there was this Vietnamese guy. Who just had a [00:32:00] bird in his hand and he threw it up in the air and he is so excited and he is yelling my knees and he's like looking at me and he's so amped and I have no clue what is happening, what is going on. The, whole place is just so different. yeah, it was a little like frightening, like being out in the streets of Ho Chi Minh for the first 24 hours until you kind of get a, get a hang of things. But, uh, yeah, no, I could see. being both in Ho Chi Minh and Danang, Danang probably being a lot better at quality of life, like the air quality, like you said, as well as just maybe like slower pace, not so hectic. so I love that. I was just gonna ask you if you had. three pieces of, of advice for someone who's trying to move abroad to Southeast Asia. What, what would that be?

[00:32:52] Evan Jordan: Yeah. Okay. The first thing I would definitely suggest is to get some sort of income stream, no matter how small it is [00:33:00] coming in before you leave home.

[00:33:03] Evan Jordan: I. So even if you're just going for like three months, six months, a year, I like, I cannot recommend enough the idea, even just as a practice to start having some income coming in. You know, do something four hours a week online, get onto five or Upwork, just your, your first couple contracts or jobs or your first client and.

[00:33:27] Evan Jordan: It, it really changes how you think about travel. I think if you have money coming into your bank account, if, if your money is constantly going down, if you have no source of income, then no matter where you are or how long your trip is, it's always a countdown to zero to when you go home.

[00:33:48] Ryan Mellon: That's very good advice.

[00:33:49] Ryan Mellon: would, would you, um, go through like what the cost of living is like there versus I. Let's say Toronto, where you're [00:34:00] from, how significant is it? What, what are some examples of what someone might expect living and, and, you know, renting a, a two bedroom apartment and, you know, getting daily supplies. What, what, what a cost look like.

[00:34:14] Evan Jordan: you know, I think the way, the best way to start the cost of living comparison is by looking at your basic needs, right? Like the roof over your head, food, clothes, et cetera. And the thing about Vietnam is not just that, it's still one of the most affordable places in the world. It's not, you know, and I probably made videos like us this on YouTube.

[00:34:35] Evan Jordan: It's not the cheapest country in the world anymore. It's probably not even one of the cheapest 20 or thirties. What, but what's happened is that it's had incredible economic growth BA like relative to where it started, right? So it's this really fast, dynamic, rapidly developing country, but it started at a very, very low point.

[00:34:57] Evan Jordan: So I think the average income here moved the [00:35:00] GDP per person. It's still only about 5,000 US dollars, right? Which is very low, but the quality of life for everyone in Vietnam. Is like tens of millions of people have been pulled out of poverty in the last, you know, two to three decades since the nineties and since the economy reopened.

[00:35:18] Evan Jordan: And what that means is that you can get all of your basic needs and necessities for less than $5,000 a year, right? It can just a straight up way. You can also go away higher that and spend whatever you want, but you're like your simple basics. Are just so much more affordable than they are in somewhere like Canada, the United States, that it's, it's hard to believe it's, it's hard to actually compare them, right?

[00:35:42] Evan Jordan: Like you can get this big, beautiful, incredible BMI sandwich, for under a dollar. You know? And the thing that's impressive about it, and what you don't necessarily find in other countries in Southeast Asia is that it's extremely high quality. Like Vietnam is a big agricultural producer. It's a, [00:36:00] it's a self-sustainable country, right?

[00:36:01] Evan Jordan: And a, most countries are not self-sustainable anymore. Vietnam produces enough rice, enough fruits, enough vegetables, and enough meat to feed its entire a hundred million person population. Most places, especially the island countries around Southeast Asia don't do that. And because of it, it means that people here eat really well and are generally pretty healthy.

[00:36:24] Evan Jordan: Even if they're only making that whatever it is, $5,000, $10,000 a year salary. And you as a visitor get access to some of those things, especially if you sort of step outside of the tourism zones. Even just to like an average sort of residential area, right? Like if you walk into a residential middle class part of Vietnam, you know, a, a part of the city where like there's houses or row houses.

[00:36:50] Evan Jordan: Where people have cars, like new cars parked in front of their houses, you're gonna walk 'em into a restaurant. It's still only gonna cost two or $3, right? [00:37:00] Because that's triple the cost of like the 50 cents or 25 cents that some rural villager is gonna play for a bowl of noodles.

[00:37:07] Ryan Mellon: Yeah, no, absolutely. Vietnam for me was one of the most. places I've ever been, and I absolutely love my time there. I did six weeks, and yeah, a couple dollars for a, some pho and, um, bon me on the street. So easy, so quick and easy. super good. And the coffee,

[00:37:31] Ryan Mellon: if you love coffee, man, the coffee is just ridiculously amazing and it's like. On steroids, man. It's like, you know, a dollar coffee at the street, vendor iced coffee ready to go in like 30 seconds and you're boosted up and like off to the races. Man, it's, it's absolutely awesome. So.

[00:37:52] Evan Jordan: I have a, at the end of my street, I go to there and there's a huge, we should say two Vietnam's, the second biggest coffee producer in the world. It's, it is [00:38:00] mostly, uh, robusta, like the darker, cheaper beans, which are also more caffeinated. So yeah, the coffee really is like rocket fuel, but. There's an enormous cafe culture here too, right?

[00:38:11] Evan Jordan: So every little neighborhood, every little local corn, literally like each block, not just each neighborhood, has its own Vietnamese style cafe or, you know, a little ante with a bicycle cart selling coffee on the streets. And you can literally get an incredible coffee for under a dollar, pretty much anywhere in the entire country, top to bottom.

[00:38:33] Evan Jordan: And, uh, the beer I. We, we should at least mention it. People do like to drink, especially when they're traveling it. Vietnam also still has some of the biggest, uh, it has one of the, if not the biggest, uh, independent brewer in the world. 

[00:38:50] Evan Jordan: a mono, the whole country had a monopoly. It was like, I think it might have actually sold a chunk of the company.

[00:38:56] Evan Jordan: You're not, like, not a controlling stake. They might have sold like 30% to [00:39:00] whatever, you know, one of the big conglomerates, but. The beer that's been made in Hanoi for however long and famously used to be able to go and get a little, uh, glass, like, I don't know what, what the equivalent would Not a pint of beer, maybe about a half pint of beer.

[00:39:13] Evan Jordan: And it, it used to cost, uh, seven K what? Seven k 30 cents. About 30 cents us for like a, a a half point of a glass of beer on the streets in Hanoi, which is good times. 

[00:39:28] Ryan Mellon: It's crazy. And the vie Vietnamese love to drink. They have a good drinking culture too. So that's always like, that's a lot of fun to be around. Like,

[00:39:37] Ryan Mellon: and, and they have the chant, you know,

[00:39:40] Ryan Mellon: when they're drinking, uh, and cheersing, which is a lot of fun. And so, yeah, if you do like to have drinks. Vietnam is a very good to do that inexpensively and also, you know, interact with the Vietnamese at the same time because they, they, it's, it's very much a part of their culture as[00:40:00] 

[00:40:00] Ryan Mellon: So, yeah. I love that very cheap beer. You can't, you can never go wrong

[00:40:05] Ryan Mellon: with that. I think I remember staying in a hostel once in the north of Vietnam before doing the Hi giang Loop, and the bed was a bed. With, free breakfast and two hours worth of Alder. You can drink happy hour in the mountains with a pool. It was $3 a night, you know, it's like,

[00:40:29] Ryan Mellon: where, where am I? Like, it's, pretty insane. And that was a couple years ago. It was probably $5 a night now, but still a great deal.

[00:40:39] Evan Jordan: It's another underrated aspect of it, which it ties into the thing I was saying about one of the reasons why the food cost is the food costs and things are still so low is because. If it's a product being sold domestically to local Vietnamese people, the price has to be low for them, them to be able to afford it.

[00:40:55] Evan Jordan: Right. To access it. and the same thing is true of [00:41:00] hotel rooms. One of the rea people are often shocked when they come to Vietnam that certain you can find such a, you know, decent or I won't say great, or like top hole. We're not talking about five star hotels. Right. We're talking about your sort of like average, you know.

[00:41:15] Evan Jordan: In, or like stay the night hotel your two or three star hotel, and in almost any city in Vietnam or any city in Vietnam, you can find one easily for $10. And it's for the exact same reason, which is that there's a huge domestic tourism market. Right. Just the comparisons, maybe like mainland China and the prices have to be that affordable because the businesses depend on local Vietnamese people coming and you know, and, and being their clients and staying there.

[00:41:44] Ryan Mellon: Yeah, no, it, it, it is super inexpensive. back then I was still backpacking and staying in hostels, but. Yeah, it's if you're a couple or you wanna upgrade out of the hostels, which who doesn't, after a while you [00:42:00] get kind of aged out of that. And it's not the, not the best, uh, accommodation. You know, Vietnam has some very, affordable alternatives as well.

[00:42:11] Ryan Mellon: So that's that's what's awesome about it. One of the many things.

[00:42:16] Ryan Mellon: what is one of your favorite online digital nomad communities or forums?

[00:42:23] Evan Jordan: okay. Can I, can I throw two?

[00:42:25] Ryan Mellon: Yeah.

[00:42:25] Evan Jordan: Okay. One famous old job board, which I would go back to for years and years, Dave's ESL Cafe. I'm sure it still exists and I haven't looked for a job there in a while. I'm sure it still exists though. Dave's ESL Cafe. It was originally started by a guy teaching English in Korea, I think like in the nineties.

[00:42:45] Evan Jordan: I don't know. It's been around forever, but that is an awesome one, great place to find people. Forums. The other one, I think low key. It's, it's like Facebook, like Facebook groups.

[00:42:55] Ryan Mellon: Yeah.

[00:42:56] Evan Jordan: Facebook groups, which are, and I'm, I'm not talking [00:43:00] about any particular one, but, uh, our common friend. Mic abroad abroad in Thailand.

[00:43:05] Evan Jordan: He runs a great one in Kos, Mui. But I really think for expats and people looking to live as digital nomads and slow travel, the fastest way in Asia, at least to meet the local community of expats, to find out and get real information is to join that the Facebook expat group. Right? So you show up in Saigon and you join the Saigon expats or whatever the Hong Kong expats or the.

[00:43:33] Evan Jordan: The Irish and Kuala Lumpur group or any of those things. Um, I mean, I could also plug my own site, but we'll leave that to the end.

[00:43:41] Ryan Mellon: Yeah, no, it's a Facebook is you, every li every single spot has a backpackers, you know? ho chi, min a expats, ho chi, min a, a. Uh, digital nomad ho you in, so

[00:43:55] Ryan Mellon: whatever group you wanna put yourself in, in any city, anywhere, [00:44:00] pretty much has a group and so you're instantly plugged in. And so

[00:44:04] Ryan Mellon: it is a great place for that for

[00:44:06] Evan Jordan: Yeah. And like it, it's, it's so specific too, right? Like whether you're like, I remember when I was first got to Ho Chi Minh, I'm a home brewer, and I was like home brewing beer, and it was too hot there. I couldn't figure out how to do it. Found a Facebook group. There was no solution to brewing beer that hot.

[00:44:22] Evan Jordan: But I made like five or six great friends. And we drank beer together.

[00:44:26] Ryan Mellon: Nice. Nice.

[00:44:28] Ryan Mellon: win either way.

[00:44:30] Ryan Mellon: it. Tell me a place in your opinion that has the best food other than Vietnam.

[00:44:36] Ryan Mellon: Maybe 

[00:44:36] Evan Jordan: Other than Vietnam. Oh, I was gonna start debating which city or region in Vietnam had the best 

[00:44:41] Ryan Mellon: maybe over your travels over the years. Yeah.

[00:44:45] Evan Jordan: okay. can I do a high low? My high pick is Madrid. Holy Sorry, can I swear in your podcast,

[00:44:52] Ryan Mellon: of course.

[00:44:54] Evan Jordan: Madrid, if you want, like, not Barcelona. Barcelona is great, but Madrid to [00:45:00] me is like, it's the wealthy, like high end.

[00:45:03] Evan Jordan: Everything is done beautifully and perfectly. The finesse, you know, you walk into one of these like spotless, gorgeous markets in Madrid, and there's many of them. There's multiple, these sort of, you know, there's little squares where they sell. Everything, right? Whether it's the classic, the pork, the tapas, the seafood, it's phenomenal.

[00:45:25] Evan Jordan: And yes, I know Madrid is landlocked, but trust me, there's an infrastructure there. You can get some of the best fresh oysters in the world in landlocked Madrid.

[00:45:34] Okay.

[00:45:35] Evan Jordan: and then low culture, I would say so tough. It's so tough. There's so many good places to eat in Asia. I would say it's. A split between Taipei or Kuala Lumpur.

[00:45:48] Ryan Mellon: Okay.

[00:45:50] Evan Jordan: Maybe Kuala Lumpur. 'cause Kuala Lumpur has Chinese food, Malay food and Indian food. It's got a really like amazing multicultural street food thing. 

[00:45:59] Ryan Mellon: Yeah, 

[00:45:59] Evan Jordan: [00:46:00] Taipei has, yeah, Taipei is like Chinese and Japanese and sort of a little bit of a mix, but it's not, it's not quite as diverse as kl and it's not as cheap.

[00:46:09] Evan Jordan: Oh my God. Kuala Lumpur and Malaysia in general. Probably as chief as Vietnam or close. It's unbelievable.

[00:46:16] Ryan Mellon: Yeah. Still yet to been to, been to kl. I have been to Taipei and they do have a really good food scene there.

[00:46:23] Ryan Mellon: So what's one, what do you miss about home if, if you had one? I had to pick one thing.

[00:46:29] Evan Jordan: I don't want to be cliche and just say friends and family. So what I will say, I miss the great Canadian landscape. I do miss, I used to be a pretty serious rock climber and camping and canoeing and that, that kind of like outdoorsy backwood stuff. Um, you can do it here. There's some of it here, but it, it's not the same.

[00:46:54] Evan Jordan: You know, it's not the same. Right. The geography isn't the same. There's parts of [00:47:00] Canada, not just like in Banff, but there's parts of Canada and the Rocky Mountains, some of those lakes and those hikes and, and there's places that are just, I mean, there's nowhere like 'em on planet Earth. They're stunning.

[00:47:11] Ryan Mellon: Yeah, no, I, I've seen so many photos, especially a Banff. That one sticks out in my mind, but, uh, I haven't made it to candidate yet. And like, I'm, I'm itching like any day now. I'm just gonna get in the car and go up there. But, um, I would love to, love to check it out one day.

[00:47:28] Evan Jordan: Oh, I missed driving. I lowkey missed driving. Is that 

[00:47:31] Ryan Mellon: do you? Well, it's different, right? Like, do

[00:47:35] Ryan Mellon: you have a motorbike in, yeah, but it's different than like, just like getting in the car and like having an open road and like,

[00:47:42] Ryan Mellon: and, and the views are absolutely different in North America versus Vietnam,

[00:47:47] Evan Jordan: Yeah. I don't want to drive here, but when you, when you mentioned the word getting in your car and road tripping, I had like a pang of like Yeah. Like that in Canada and the us that wide open [00:48:00] space, you get in a car window down, put on some music. Yeah. Road tripping. I miss road tripping.

[00:48:05] Ryan Mellon: yeah, yeah. No, that's, that's definitely one of the things you have do here. Have to experience here. Well, cool man. Well, I really appreciate this conversation, you taking the time out today. How can people find you?

[00:48:16] Evan Jordan: Uh, yeah. So on YouTube you can find me at Evan a, like a Canadian, eh, exclamation Canadian flag, or my podcast at Cost of Living Abroad Pod, also on YouTube. And then my website is just cost of living abroad.com. So check it out. If you want help moving to Southeast Asia, we can figure something out.

[00:48:37] Ryan Mellon: Cool. Again, thank you for your time and I appreciate it and I hope you have a Good evening.

[00:48:43] Evan Jordan: Yeah. Cheers, man. You have a nice morning back in the States.

[00:48:46] Ryan Mellon: Thanks. 

[00:48:46] Ryan Mellon: Thanks for listening to another episode of Digital Nomad Nation. I hope today's stories have inspired you to take the next step towards location independence. If you've enjoyed the show, please share it with a [00:49:00] friend and leave a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast app. Your support fuels our mission to inspire the digital nomad lifestyle.

[00:49:09] Ryan Mellon: Before you go, don't forget to grab your free copy of my guide, Seven Ways to Become a Digital Nomad. It's packed with practical tips to kickstart your nomadic journey. You can find the link in the episode description. And remember, the life you've always dreamed of is just one bold decision away. Until next time, this is the Digital Nomad Coach, Ryan Mellon, signing off.