Women and Their Various Life Stages

In this episode Ken and Andy chat about three movies that involve women at various stages of their life.

My Old Ass: A girl does Hallucinogenic drugs and meets an older version of herself, played by Aubrey Plaza.
The Substance: Demi Moore plays a past her prime TV workout instructor who tries a drug that creates a younger, more beautiful version of herself.
Thelma: June Squibb plays Thelma who gets scammed on the phone out of $10k and tracks down her scammers. 

Check us out at www.passpiratepay.com

Chapters

• 2:31 My Old Ass
• 19:15 The Substance
• 40:16 Thelma

Transcript

[MUSIC]
Okay, hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Pass Pirate Pay,
the movie discussion show where we tell you whether you should skip something,
watch it without paying for it or actually spend your hard-or-money on it.
>> Right, right.
>> My name is Ken, I'll be your host and with me is always my co-host Andy.
>> Hello.
>> And before we get into the movies that we're going to be discussing,
I should mention that this will be an in-depth discussion of these movies
and it will be veering into spoiler territory.
So if you do not want to have these movies spoiled,
maybe you should go ahead and watch them before you listen to these episodes
because we are not going to be concerned about spoiling them for you.
And tonight, today we are going to be discussing three movies about women and aging.
That's right, which I feel like is something we're very equipped to discuss.
>> Hey, we are two fat single cis white men.
We deserve this.
>> Who could possibly be more, who more perfect to talk about this topic than us.
But you know what, we are old women.
>> We are all about inclusivity here.
And you know, I think one of the things I want people to get from this podcast
is that the cinema is more than Martin Scorsese and Quentin Tarantino.
We've got women making movies, we've got movies about women and they are good, some of the time.
>> So today our movies are going to be My Old Ass, The Substance, and Thelma,
it's a trio of 2024 movies.
They are all recently out of theaters.
You can rent them on streaming services either now or very soon.
>> We will talk about at the end where you can find all of these movies.
>> Great, perfect.
>> We do need a correction.
>> I don't know if you know about this.
>> Yes, I heard about this.
>> Do you want to do it?
>> Sure.
>> Okay.
>> So yeah, last week we discussed Batman, Kate Crusader.
>> Right.
>> And you and I taking our own advice from the podcast, we decided not to pay for this.
>> [laughs]
>> So we were both under the mistaken impression that this was a show that's on Netflix.
And apparently that's not so much the case.
>> [laughs]
>> So anybody who listened to this show did not take our advice to pass on it
and wanted to go find the show on Netflix, we apologize.
>> Right.
>> This show is actually on Prime Video.
>> Right, Amazon Prime Video, yeah.
>> Yeah, so that is our bad.
And we will try to stop making those mistakes in the future.
>> Yeah, but we'll do better in the future.
>> So anyway, let's dive right into it.
>> Okay.
>> What do you want to do first?
>> I think the best way we can go about it is this is a movie's about different points in women's lives.
>> Yeah.
>> So let's go in chronological order.
>> Okay.
>> Let's start with my old ass.
Did all these movies are made by writer directors?
>> Okay.
>> So every one of them.
This one is written and directed by Megan Park, a filmmaker who I was not familiar with going to this movie.
But it's about an 18-year-old girl who on her 18th birthday takes some mushrooms, goes on a trip,
and hallucinates, or maybe not, her 39-year-old self, who gives her the lowdown on what,
a little bit of what her life is going to be like, gives her some advice,
and then we're off and running.
>> And her old self is played by Aubrey Plaza, who I thought did a fantastic job.
>> I could not agree more.
I think she is absolutely fantastic in this movie.
>> Like kind of snuck up on how good of an actress she is.
>> Yeah.
So the strange thing about this movie, which I did not get from watching the trailer, is that it's an incredibly earnest and emotionally honest and open movie.
>> Coming of age movie.
>> Yeah.
>> And it's really, Aubrey Plaza is like the avatar of snark, right?
That's her whole stick.
>> Right.
>> Ever since she's become famous, this is what she's known for.
>> Mm-hm.
>> And the choice pan.
>> Exactly.
>> Yeah.
>> And the choice to put her in this movie, and she, as the older self, sets in motion,
all of these really sweet emotional moments, and to have her be the person that does this,
I think is a brilliant choice.
>> Yeah.
>> And she could not be better in this part.
>> Mm-hm.
>> I absolutely love what she's doing.
>> I thought that the movie was so good that you didn't even really need the Aubrey Plaza stuff.
It could have just been about this girl's experience.
>> Yeah.
>> Still was interesting.
>> Yeah.
I agree with that too.
But, man, I don't know.
I think Aubrey Plaza is far and away the best part of the movie for me.
I think her performance, she's funny, and she's really sweet.
And when it comes time for her to get emotional, she really sells it in a brilliant and low-key
way.
Like, she's not overdoing it.
>> Yeah.
>> And that's, I thought the whole movie was like that.
>> That's the way I feel about the movie too.
>> Yeah.
>> I think it is, it does such a good job of not being super cheesy or melodramatic about anything.
It's just, everything is really simple.
There's not a lot of like giant music cues.
There's so many great parts to it where it's just two people talking.
And it's just, it's really refreshing.
And there's the movie packs a really huge emotional punch.
It really hit me hard.
>> Yeah.
>> And I could not have loved it more.
>> Yeah.
Same here.
>> That's great.
So, the younger self, as you can see, we should mention, her name is played by Maisie Stella.
This is an actress I've never seen before.
>> Nora.
>> I looked her up. She has two film credits before this one.
And I think she does just a fantastic job.
>> Yeah.
>> I think it's just a really well constructed movie.
So, the movie starts, they live on this, on this lake in Canada.
The movie takes place in Canada.
There, her family is cranberry farmers.
And the girl, Elliott, she just can't wait to get out of this place.
That's her whole thing.
But she has this little tiny power boat that she drives around everywhere.
And the movie starts with her and two of her friends on this boat.
And they're pulling into this dock.
And the girl is just ramming the boat into things.
She's driving with absolutely no tear for what's going on.
And for me, it sets the tone perfectly, right?
Because the way I feel about this character is she's an asshole.
But she's an asshole in the way that an 18-year-old is an asshole.
>> Yeah.
>> She's not a bad person at all.
She's actually really sweet in most ways.
But she's just a jerk.
Like, all she ever talks about to all these people who live in this place is this place sucks.
I can't wait to get out of here.
>> Yeah.
>> I saw a lot of my 18-year-old self in that.
>> As did I.
>> Yeah.
>> As did I.
And so, one of the great things that happens after she meets her older self,
her older self tells her, hey, you should really spend more time with your family.
And she just starts hanging out with her family.
She has two younger brothers and her mother and father.
And she's just spending time with them.
And you get the feeling, these people are awesome.
Her family are great.
And it's like, why is she so excited to get away from these people?
Because they're so cool.
And the thing that they do, her whole family is so obviously just putting up with her shit.
Because it's like, oh my god, she's off doing her thing again.
You know, one of the reveals of the movie is that her family is selling the cranberry farm.
And she's very upset about this.
And everybody has known about this but her the whole time.
And when she's like, why didn't anybody tell me about this?
Everyone's response is we didn't think you would care.
And it's just like, oh, yeah, that's actually true.
You get that impression from her the whole time.
But over the course of the movie, she just starts opening up.
And my favorite scene, or one of my favorite scenes in the movie is just her having a wonderful experience.
Just her having a one-on-one conversation with her mother.
And when she's talking to her mother, her mother tells this story about how when she was a baby, she would never sleep.
And her mother had to like hold her and rock her the whole night.
Until one day eventually she has to put she's able to put her down.
And the two-year-old girl finally falls asleep.
And the mother's like, on the one hand, I was so proud of you but at the same time,
I now realize I wasn't going to have to hold you anymore and that kind of made me sad.
And like I said, it's just these two people talking.
And they both have like little bits of tears,
welling up in their eyes and it's just such a sweet and well-acted scene.
I watched the movie a second time yesterday and I was just crying.
It's like, this is so beautiful.
I just love these people.
It's so good.
Yeah.
So that seems to be a theme throughout the movie is life passing you by and you're not not knowing.
Yeah.
Exactly.
There was another scene where she's talking to her boyfriend and the boyfriend is like,
"You remember the last time you played as a kid?
Like you pretended zombies were chasing you?"
She goes, "Well, I remember doing that."
But do you remember the last time you did it?
Like you never said goodbye to that.
It just happened and it went away.
And that was it.
Yep.
And it's just, and yeah.
And that's just another perfect example of what this movie is doing.
It's talking about one thing to stand in for a whole bigger thing and doing it.
Same thing with all the other people.
All the other people has stuff too.
Yep.
And it's just doing it so well.
And yeah, I just thought it was fantastic.
So you mentioned the boyfriend.
Yeah.
And I want to talk about him.
So are you familiar with the concept of the manic pixie dream girl?
Yes.
Yes.
So this is a funny version?
Yes.
So anybody who's not familiar, this was a film critic named Nathan Raven came up with this idea.
Yeah.
He used it to talk about the movie Garden State where the Adelie Portman saved Zach Braff's
life or whatever.
And it's a thing that's happened throughout the history of movies where there's a male protagonist
and he's in some sort of rut, his life sucks in some way.
And he meets this cookie girl and the girl comes in and shakes him out of his thing and becomes
a whole different person and life is better.
And the manic pixie dream girl has no agency of her own.
She doesn't really do anything except like, I'm just here to improve the life of this man.
And so this is the same thing.
This is the same thing in reverse.
This guy, her boyfriend is this guy named Chad and he's the mellow dorky dream boy.
He comes in and he's just like, he's weird and awkward.
But he's funny and but she gets a warning.
Yes.
Yeah, her old self tells her, stay away from Chad, stay away from him and her older self tells
her this immediately before she meets him for the first time.
Right.
And then she meets him and she keeps running into him because he keeps trying to avoid him.
Yeah, but he's working for her father's cranberry farm.
And so she can't take the advice.
She can't get away from this guy.
And every time she talks to him, it's like he just seems like the greatest, non most non-threatening
boy who could ever live.
And it's like, why am I supposed to stay away from this guy?
And eventually she's unable to do it.
And she kind of she just starts falling in love with him because he's just so like easy
to fall in love with.
Yeah.
But he doesn't really have any personality of his own.
He's just there to be the perfect thing that she needs at this, at this moment in her life.
I thought he was good.
I thought he did a good job.
Oh, no, I'm not saying the actor didn't do a good job.
I'm just saying the character as written doesn't really have much of a personality except awesomeness.
Like, like dorky awesomeness is just his whole vibe.
And that's the only thing he's doing.
And I don't mind because to me, the movie is not a romance.
It's a story about her.
And if it's a romance, it's a romance between her and her older self.
Yeah, right?
Like the movie is just about Elliot and her discovering this thing that you were talking
about of embracing life as it is happening.
Don't look to the future so much and don't worry about the past just the moment that you're
in right now is beautiful.
And this is what we should be focusing on.
And that's what she comes to throughout the course of the movie.
And I think it's really telling the movie ends not with her and Chad off doing something.
It's her alone on her boat again just tooling around this lake that she's probably not ever
going to be able to experience in the same way again because her family is selling the farm
after she goes away to college and when she comes back, everything's going to be different.
And yeah, with the way the movie ends, we're just learning that this is her.
Her experiencing this in the way that her older self has told her to do.
And it's just and it's just so perfect for me.
I just yeah, yeah, I really could not have enjoyed this movie more.
This is like it's a bit it's a bit of a tear jerker, you know, it is, but it's it's not it's
not heavy handed.
Yeah, it's definitely not.
I feel like my 18 year old self would probably have hated this movie.
Like what is this sentimental shit, right?
But like now that I have some age behind me, it's just like, wow, this is it's so great.
I just I think it stands with the greatest coming of age movies.
I think it stands with Stan by me.
The breakfast club.
I was reminded that breakfast club, you know, everybody goes undergoes a change.
The goonies.
Yeah.
I think it's I can stand with those.
It has a little bit of like fantasy mystic stuff in it.
Yeah.
But that's one that's another thing like it's this wacky high concept premise that this movie
is going for.
And the movie just buys into it 100% and once Aubrey Plaza appears, it's never questioned.
It's just like this is what's happening.
Don't worry about it.
And we're not left like how is this happening?
Why is this happening?
None of that is important.
All that's important is that she's there and we're going to learn the lessons from it,
you know.
And it's handled so beautifully.
Do you want to talk about the end?
No, no, yeah.
We can talk about the end.
Okay.
So the reason why Aubrey Plaza is warning her not to get involved with Chad is that Chad
is going to die.
But it's never discussed how or why.
It's just a thing.
So the reason Aubrey Plaza is trying to warn younger Elliot off from getting to him is
because it's going to be this horribly painful thing that happens because she's going
to fall so deeply in love with him.
And then when he dies, it's going to shake her to her core.
Right.
And the whole time, once she's warned, it's kind of implied that he's going to be an asshole
right?
He's going to do something bad.
Yeah, exactly.
So you're like waiting for that other shoot and drive.
Right.
And the whole time you're watching Chad and it's like, I can't figure it out.
And she is too.
And she's doing the same thing.
Yeah.
What could possibly be wrong with this guy?
Don't understand.
So then we find out he's going to die.
And the younger Elliot is just, she says, you know, I don't care, basically.
She has learned the lessons of the movie to take the moment as it comes.
And she's just like, I'm going to experience every moment I can with him until he dies.
And I'm going to love him as hard as I can until until that happens.
And it's all going to be worth it.
And you see, this is this is the part where I feel like this movie is not going to
get Oscar consideration, but it should if there were any justice in this world, all
replies would get a best supporting after his nomination for this movie, because this
scene where she realizes that she's being taught a lesson by her younger self.
And she's like, shit, you're right.
This pain that I have because this guy died doesn't make up for the joy that I experienced
being with him.
And then as they're having this face to face, the two Elliot's are having this face to face,
Chad comes back along and we get to see all replaza seeing this guy that she was in love
with 20 years before who is now dead.
And you just watch her face as she's looking at this guy.
And she's introduced as the ant as Elliot's aunt or something like that.
And then they say they're goodbyes and as Elliot, younger Elliot and Chad are about to go
away, all replaza version and Chad have this hug and you're just watching them hug each
other and the camera shows all replaza's face and she's crying and she's just doing so much
great emotional work with her face.
Yeah, I just I didn't know I've always loved all replaza just because I think she's really
funny and good at doing the thing that she does.
Yeah, but I had no idea that she had the range to do this thing that she's doing.
Yeah.
It surprised me too.
It totally blew me away.
I yeah, just fantastic.
Yeah.
They gave Anne Hathaway the Oscar for singing one song and Les Miserables.
Yeah.
They can give replaza the Oscar for this.
Yeah, I just don't supporting they can give it to her.
I just don't feel like this is the kind of movie that gets Oscar love, which is.
No, but that's that's been kind of upended lately.
Yeah, you could be right, you know, you could be right.
I mean, I certainly have no thought that she might win if she were able to get a nomination.
I think it would be you remember when when you and our circle of friends were talking say,
Oh, man, if it was just a just world, everything everywhere all at once would win all the awards,
but it's not it's not going to get shit.
Yep, it's coming out in the summer.
Yep.
Nobody's going to remember this and it won it just toppled the Oscars.
Yeah, you're right.
You're right.
I hope I'm proven wrong because yeah, yeah, this seems like a dark horse to get it, I think
I would at least do nomination that would make me so, so happy.
Just yeah, she deserves it.
All right.
So is that is at the end of the year?
Yeah.
So that's the end of this review.
That's the end of this review.
All right.
So I think I can guess where we're going on.
I feel like I'm going to ask anyway.
Yeah.
Can is it pass pirate or pay?
This is 100% unequivocally pay for it.
And right now I don't as at the time of this recording, I don't think it's streaming anywhere.
Yeah.
As of now it is not in limbo right now between theaters and streaming.
So, but when it comes out, find it, watch it.
Do yourself a favor and watch this movie and do the creative forces behind this movie
a favor and give them some money because this movie is 100% worth it.
And then we'll see what these pay for this movie.
All right, Ken.
What is next on the agenda?
Okay.
So next in the timeline of woman's life is the substance.
No.
We cover quite a bit of a woman's life in this one.
Yes, we do.
Which is written and directed by Coralie Fargeat.
Another filmmaker I was not familiar with heading into this movie.
It stars Demi Moore as Elizabeth who is an actress.
She's an actress who has her own morning workout show like Jane Fonda.
It's also revealed that she has an Oscar.
So I'm guessing the Jane Fonda vibes are pretty much intentional.
Yeah.
It's not really clear when this movie takes place.
It seems to be simultaneously now and the 1980s.
Oh, maybe.
It's what it seemed like to me.
It's kind of hard to tell.
People are dressed in mostly modern kind of ways, but there are cell phones.
The whole thing feels very 1980s to me is like on that.
So I think televised workouts seem 1980s.
Very much, very much so.
So in this movie, Elizabeth Demi Moore's character celebrates her 50th birthday.
And as a present, the studio where her workout show is filmed, the president of the network
executive in charge of her show is played by Dennis Quaid takes her out to lunch and tells
her that she's being fired because she's too old and people are not interested in her
show.
So then she finds this mysterious.
She gets, she goes to see a doctor.
And the doctor's assistant.
There's a nurse or maybe he's another doctor, I'm not really sure.
Gives her a note telling her he's like comically handsome.
Yeah.
So he looks like a candle.
Right.
So he slips her this note telling her where she can get some sort of substance with vague
promises to restore her youth.
And it doesn't take long before she decides to do this.
And through various, very disgusting means she gets this substance into her and out of her
body spouts a younger version who's played in this case by Mark McLeod over spine, I think.
Yes.
Like emerges from her spine.
Yeah.
So I knew the premise of the movie from the trailer.
I didn't know it was going to work like that.
Oh, yeah.
Media.
It's a, this movie is fucking gross.
It is super gross.
Like perfectly gross.
Yeah.
It revels in its grossness.
Like does.
So, but it's never gross for the sake of being gross.
Well, I think all of its grossness feeds to its story.
Well, I'll get into that in a little bit.
I have a little fun.
I don't actually agree with that all the way.
I do.
I think there is a lot of the grossness really works towards the story as well.
I'll tell you.
Yeah.
The way I feel about this movie is it's like a two, a little over two hour long movie.
There's like a great hour and a half long movie in somewhere in there with some really
unnecessarily gross stuff happening at the very beginning and the very end that I don't
really need.
Okay.
That's the way I feel about it.
And like I said when I was talking about the lunch she's having with Dennis Quaid, the sound
design on this, he's eating shrimp and the sound design is just like it's like they put
a microphone in his mouth.
Yeah.
And you're just listening to him chopping away.
There's a lot of a lot of fully worked.
It's so disgusting.
It's so disgusting.
And I don't, I mean, the point of the movie, one of the points of the movies is that men
are disgusting.
All of the men in this movie are ridiculous leering buffoons.
There's not a single man here who is doing anything other than looking at women either determining
that they are not worthy to fuck or thinking about how they can fuck.
Yeah, commenting on them or I don't know all the men.
Maybe the guy she meets from high school is kind of cool.
Yeah, I'm kind of nice.
Yeah, I guess he does seem kind of nice.
But I think that's used also in the movie as a plot.
Yeah, that's true.
That is good.
That is a good point.
I actually had forgotten about him.
He does not seem to fit in with the mold of the rest of the rest of the men in this movie.
Yeah, he's nice.
Yeah, he seems like a decent enough dude.
But anyway, so she takes this substance and like you said, it's like a giving birth through
the spine kind of situation where it pops out of you.
Margaret Qualie emerges from Demi Moore's back.
Yeah.
And like she's lying on the bathroom floor and once Margaret Qualie appears, there's like
a shell of Demi Moore lying there and still alive.
Still alive.
Still needs to be fed.
Yeah.
So the trick, the way that the substance works is, Margaret Qualie can exist for seven days.
The younger version of Elizabeth whose name is Sue, she can exist for seven days.
But after seven days, she has to get back in the Demi Moore suit.
Right.
Demi Moore for seven days.
It can go out and be alive for seven days.
And they do seven days on and seven days off.
So while Margaret Qualie is around, she goes and auditions to be Demi Moore's replacement
on her workout show.
And she comes out and she's looking sexy as hell and all the studio executives are like
you're hired immediately.
And she tells some story about how she has to look over at, look after some elderly relatives
so she can only, she has to be away every other week.
So they're like, to get you here, we'll do it.
We'll do it.
And this is what I thought was good because I was going to think, oh, they're going to tell
her she can't.
And they're going to, she's going to have to figure out a way to live longer in the, and
they said, no, it's fine.
Yep.
Whatever you want.
They put all of it on her.
Now it wasn't the gross men's fault.
It wasn't society's fault.
It was, it kind of was her thing.
Yep.
So eventually what happens is, Margaret Qualie is, she decides she likes being out in the
world too much.
So she starts extending her time beyond what she should be doing.
Right.
Because they set up like a series of rules.
Right.
You know, like it more technical than just seven days on, seven days on.
She has to take these injections.
She has to suck out stuff from Demi Moore's spine up and insert it into herself as a stabilization
right.
Like each day.
Yeah, exactly.
So, so eventually she starts doing this for longer than she should.
And the first time she does it for an extra like day or something like that.
Yeah.
And when she goes back into being Demi Moore, Demi Moore has, what is this?
It starts with her hand fucked up finger.
Yeah, like her, like her, like her, which finger?
Yeah.
She has like 112 year old woman's finger.
It's super gross.
So it's and it's like and so like, well, why is this happening?
So she calls the substance place up and she's like, what the hell happened?
My finger is like, well, your other self stayed out for too long and this is what happens.
So yeah, they're like, fuck you.
Right.
Like you should have followed.
If there's one thing I learned about the moral of the whole story that use as directed
right.
Right.
And they keep telling her, like Demi Moore is like, she keeps doing it.
Why is she doing this to me?
There is no she.
You two of you are one person because they, you know, they seem like they seem like they're
different people, but they're really two sides of the same coin.
Yeah.
So then eventually, Margaret quality keeps staying out longer and longer and Demi Moore
keeps getting older and older because she keeps over extending her time.
Yeah.
And then Demi Moore suddenly wants to stop leaving the house and she becomes more of a
shut-in, getting more and more grotesque looking and becoming less inclined to leave the house
and these things happen.
And more inclined to stay in Margot quality longer.
Right.
So then eventually, Margaret quality decides she's going to stay out for months at a time.
And she is just like the Demi Moore shell in the bathroom is shriveling up more and more,
but Margaret quality is still sucking the juice out of her spine.
And she sucks a whole bunch of wants, I remember.
Right.
Yeah.
She's keeping it in jars and she's taken more and more stuff out.
So yeah.
And eventually, the whole thing devolves where Demi Moore is too shriveled up to get any
more substance out of.
So then Margaret quality starts falling apart herself and she decides to do a substance version
of herself to create a third person.
So now it's a copy of a copy and it just gets real fucking bad for there.
So I want to go back for just a second.
There were, there's a few scenes that made the movie, that made the characters in the movie
a lot more solid for me.
Okay.
And it's where she meets that guy we were talking about.
She meets a nice guy from college.
Yep.
And she meets him like outside of a studio or something one day.
And or as of the doctor, I think outside the doctor, she was outside the doctors.
She meets him there and then she decides when she goes back to her older body that Demi
Moore body, she decides, I'm going to go out with that guy.
He seemed nice.
Right.
And we're the same age and you know, and he goes, oh, that's great.
And he's all excited about it.
And he's like, that's fantastic.
So she goes to go on the date and she's looking at herself in the mirror and she just can't
stand how hideous this older version ever is after being in the younger version and she
doesn't go on the date.
Yeah.
And that could have changed everything.
Could have changed a whole course of movie.
And it wouldn't have been awesome movie anymore.
But I was like, come on, go on the date.
You're a pretty girl Demi Moore.
You're still pretty.
Right.
And she was like, no.
And that made the character a little more understandable for me like why she did what she
did.
You know, like, that's absolutely my favorite scene in the movie.
Yeah.
Like, it's because it so it happens right after the first time Margaret quality stays out
for too long.
So she still looks good, but she's got the fucked up finger.
Right.
She got gloves.
Yeah.
She got those gloves on.
But Jessica Rabbit gloves.
But like you said, she keeps looking at herself in the mirror and she'll like put on some
makeup and then she'll look at the mirror again.
She's like, nope, that's no good.
And she's like scrubbing her face.
She's scrubbing the makeup off her face and trying to do all these different things and
she just keeps looking at herself and finding it unacceptable.
And the clock keeps going.
She's supposed to meet him at eight o'clock and it just keeps getting later and later.
And she's getting texts from him.
Where are you?
What's going on?
I hope I didn't miss you or something like that.
Yeah.
And you're right.
This guy just seems so earnest.
I mean, she's a Oscar winning actress, right?
And he's this guy she knew in high school.
And the play is that way too.
Yeah.
He's super excited to be going on this date with her.
And she's got like, it should be said to me more in real life is 60 or something like that.
And looks amazing.
Oh, yeah.
The secret to being an older hot lady is being a really younger hot lady.
That's always been right.
It's working out great.
It's working out great for, but she looks fantastic.
But yeah, like I said, that's my favorite scene in the movie.
I just thought it was so, it did so much to tell you what's going on in her mind and
what.
It also speaks to why a woman would be inclined to take the substance, right?
Yeah.
As does everything because all she's being, she's just constantly being judged by her looks.
And so once people are telling her that she doesn't look good anymore, it's essentially
telling her you have no worth, right?
Because that's what Hollywood does to women.
Right.
And so I'm not just Hollywood, but society in general.
Yeah.
Absolutely true.
So a thing that I found really interesting is they call it the substance.
That's the title of the movie, but it's also what the thing is called in the movie.
And I can't think of that without thinking of substance abuse.
And so I'm a recovering alcoholic.
And while I was drinking, I would always tell people there are two me's.
There's AM, Ken and PM Ken and PM Ken hates AM Ken.
He doesn't give a fuck about what that guy's has to do.
He's going to get his shit.
He's going to get drunk and whatever happens, AM Ken can deal with the consequences and
I don't give a fuck.
So you kind of related exactly what's going on in this movie.
Like I thought it was so good because it's like the main thrust, the main idea of what
the movie is is about women and beauty.
But it's also I think I think it's a really interesting movie about substance abuse.
And I think I mean, it is literally substance abuse.
Yeah, she's abusing the substance.
Right.
Exactly.
She fucked it all up.
I don't think it's a coincidence that they call this the substance.
Uh huh.
I think that like we're supposed to take substance abuse from this movie.
And I recognize that so clearly in this movie, I see addiction as such a huge aspect of
what this movie is trying to say.
Yeah.
So that was that was one thing that I thought was really interesting.
This movie has a lot of really interesting ideas, you know?
Oh, yeah.
I didn't think it kind of hits you over the head with the social commentary a little hard.
Yeah.
But like in that world, in that with that premise, I didn't mind that.
Yeah.
I think the filmmaking is really over the top.
This is not a subtle movie.
And I know.
And I don't.
I don't.
I don't mind it.
I think it's fit.
I think it serves a purpose.
Yeah.
Like this movie is really, really hyper focused on bodies.
Like there are a lot of just really close shots of both to me, more and Margarh quali's bodies.
And it alternates between these things like they're really sexy.
It's, we're supposed to see these things and be like, wow, that's really, this is really sexy.
This is a really sexy person.
But it's also really gross or effect.
Yeah.
So it's like, this is what the human body is.
You may find some of these things sexy, but it's also just a meat sack.
It's disgusting, you know?
I think the movie does a really good job of showing that too, you know?
So let's talk about phase three.
Yeah.
So go ahead.
This is where the movie loses me.
Really?
It absolutely.
I thought this is where it just, I knew you would.
I knew you would.
When I told you that you need to see this movie, good to go.
When I told you that you need to see this movie, this is what I was thinking of because
I knew you would love this.
I was giggling like a school girl.
Yeah.
So after Margaret Kwally decides to substanceize herself to make a third version, it goes horribly
wrong and she just becomes a mutant monster with like, and that has a name too, right?
I think Monstero, Sue Allen or something like a Lizzo, Sue, Lizzo, Sue Monstero, something.
And so the climax of the movie, the thing is building towards is this New Year's Eve show
that Sue is going to be hosting and everybody is all excited about it.
And Sue is falling apart.
So she's like, I can't hold this thing.
She's there falling out her fingernails.
So that's why she decides to create this new version of her stabilization anymore.
Right.
Because now they're, because she killed her other self.
Yes.
Yeah.
So now when she creates the third version of herself, Monstero, Lizzo, Sue comes along
and she goes to host the New Year's Eve show and everybody in the audience is just looking
at this like monster freak thing like not human.
I also want to say about the monster that looked practical.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, I think you're right.
I'm not positive because it's hard to tell nowadays.
Yeah, but it looked like a practical effect.
I think you're right.
I don't think it's a, I don't think it's CGI.
Yeah, it looked, I thought it looked great.
Yeah.
Right.
Demi Moore's face was in its back like screaming.
Yep.
Like in a frozen scream.
Yep.
It's just, it's so, and then eventually the monster starts spewing blood everywhere.
Just all over the audience is completely splattered with blood.
All the dancers on stage, everyone is just covered in gore and blood and it's, I have
to admit.
It's hilarious.
It is.
Like, and she's like saying, it's me.
It's true.
It's really, really funny.
I can't deny that it's really, really funny, but I thought that the movie was so full of
interesting ideas and then at the end, we're just like, okay, now forget all that.
We're going to have this really, and it's like really cathartic like in the end, it's
pay off.
It's like the payoff.
Right.
And then all these horrible people who create sue are now literally covered in their own
mess because the, a monstro is just bleeding, spewing blood all over all of them.
It's like the end of Inglorious Basterds where Hitler gets shot in the face 150 times.
It's like, yeah, this just feels really good.
We really want to do this.
But I just, I feel like the went, once monstro shows up, the movie has decided to stop being
an idea movie and just start being a visceral movie.
Yeah.
And that's what loses me.
Even though I was laughing a lot, I just don't need it and I feel like it's the end of
a different movie.
It's the, it's the ending of a wrong movie.
Yeah.
I, when, when I was watching this, I was watching the movie and she turned into the monstro,
and I'm thinking the credits are going to roll.
And it says monstro's and it's a whole third act.
Yeah.
And it's a whole thing of the monster.
Yeah.
And I loved it.
I, I thought it was like, for me, like over the top gore like that, especially if it's part
of the story and I think it was.
Yeah, it just, the thing when I saw the trailer, I'm like, and I heard about how gory it was.
I'm like, how far are they going to go?
Right.
How far are they going to go?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't know.
It just, it felt like it felt like the wrong ending for me.
It just, I, I feel like the movie was so much more interesting than the ending was.
Yeah.
You know, I, I get that, I get that.
And if it would have rolled as soon as they showed the monster, the credits were all
as soon as they showed the monster, I think that would have been a good ending.
Yeah.
I, because like, I'm not a squeamish person and I enjoy, like I said, I really thought it
was funny.
I enjoy the shock value of these kind of things.
But if the whole movie had been like that, it would have been different for me.
Whereas, like you said, for most of the movie, the disgustingness is serving the story and
the ending, it just didn't feel like that was the case for me.
I just didn't, it, it felt totally wrong to me.
I thought it was fun.
Yeah.
Yeah.
What about the very ending?
I kind of liked how they did that where the monster just kind of dissolves.
Well, yeah, but at the very beginning of the movie, do you remember it's the star and
the walk of them?
Somebody spills like a hamburger on it and they just catch up everywhere.
And then, and then the end of the movie, the, the Demi Moore's face, like slitters,
onto the star and then just melts onto it and then the street cleaners clean it up.
And I'm like, it's just that allegory for Hollywood, and they're just like, we'll throw
you out.
You don't care.
We'll have to clean it up and start again.
Yeah.
I thought that was cool.
I just, I feel like I would have liked the movie so much more if it could have stuck
the landing in a different way rather than just, I don't know, it seemed like maybe she didn't
really have a plan as to how to end it.
So she's just like, you know what?
Let's give the people what they want.
Well, it did feel like it was building up to that though.
Yeah.
Like, I feel like it was a gradual build up to this and then it was just like, yeah.
And for me, I thought it was really fun.
Yeah.
I liked that ending.
Yeah.
But, yeah, I mean, it didn't work for me.
It did not work for me.
So can do we on the substance?
Yes.
Is it past, pirate or pay?
So for this one, I'm going with pirate.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I liked it.
I think it's worth watching.
But the ending just kind of took away from it for me.
So I don't think you need to give this one your money.
Okay.
I'm going to go with pay.
Yeah.
I am.
I'm a fan of John Carpenter's the thing.
Yes.
And I got a lot of vibes from that, especially at the end.
Yes.
Yes.
When I walked out of the theater, I said to the person who was watching with me, I said,
boy, that reminded me of John Carpenter's thing.
And he's going to love this movie.
That's what I said.
And I did.
I did.
All right, Kim.
What is the third movie in our ladies aging trilogy?
The finale of our life cycle is Felma.
Felma.
It's written and directed by Josh Margolin.
And it stars June Squibb as an 80-something-year-old woman.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's about her coming to terms with not being able to do as many things as she wants was.
Yeah.
So the movie is, it's kind of a caper movie.
It's a little bit fun.
So the movie starts out, Felma and her grandson, who is very affectionate towards her and loves
her.
He's 20-something-years-old.
Yeah.
He spends a lot of time with her.
They're going through her emails.
And it's just setting the scene in that she doesn't really know how to use technology.
She's an old woman.
He's trying to help her with her emails and she's not really getting it.
And something happens where she responds to some sort of spam email that she's not supposed
to or clicks on some link that she wasn't supposed to.
And somebody gets her information and she gets a phone call from someone who sounds a little
bit like her grandson, but he's claiming that he has a head cold or something.
But she believes that it's him.
He's just gotten in an accident and she has to send $10,000 in cash to this PO box in order
to get him out of jail because he's getting put in prison for this car accident that he's
been in.
So she gets herself down to the post office and she mails this $10,000 and then she calls
her grandson and he's like, "I don't know what you're talking about.
I was never in a car accident.
This whole thing was a scam."
Yeah.
So she goes to the police and the police are like, "Yeah, there's not really anything we
can do about this.
We can't really help you."
And then her daughter and her son-in-law, her grandson's parents, they're talking to her
like she's a child saying, "I don't understand how you could let this happen, but don't worry
about it.
We just can't do this again and let's just forget about the whole thing."
But she's pissed off, right?
Like she got scammed and she doesn't want to let it slide.
But everybody's telling her, "Oh, grandma, you're an old woman.
These things happen.
Just let it go, but she doesn't want to let it go."
So she gets involved with this friend of hers played by Richard Roundtree, right?
Shaft himself.
I think in his final role, right?
Oh, did he die?
I think he died right after that.
Oh, shit.
I never know when people are dead.
He hadn't even realized he had died.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So he is living in a nursing home.
Thelma lives by herself in her own house and her grandson is there helping take care of
her, but she's mostly independent.
But Richard Roundtree, he's living in a nursing home where everything is taken care of for
him and he loves it.
It's the best thing for him.
But he has a scooter.
So she needs to get to this place, the address where she mailed this money.
She's going to go down to the post office box and stake it out and find the people that took
her money and she's going to take care of business.
So she steals his scooter, his little rascal.
She tries to get away, but he's like, "You're not getting away from me.
I'm going to take my scooter with me."
So the two of them hop on her scooter and they go to track down these scammers who are going
to take in her money.
And so one of the things I find really fun about this movie is the score.
The way that the movie sounds, they have put this soundtrack to the movie to make it seem
way more adventurous than it is because of very low stakes movie.
But it's putting like, oceans 11 kind of, "Caper music to the score."
Every time this scene is transitioning, they're riding in the scooter and it's like this
really dynamic music is happening.
I think it's really cool.
And it's like, "Bam, bam, bam."
It's just really cool.
I think it sounds really cool.
The sound in this movie is also really cool because one of the tricks I keep using,
Thelma has a hearing aid, Richard Browntreeve also has a hearing aid and they're controlled
through their phones.
So the movie does interesting sound design stuff where she takes the hearing aid out and you
hear like a little wine and then all of a sudden you hear nothing and the sound just turns
itself away all the way off and that sounds really cool.
And then there's a scene where she and Richard Browntree want to be able to monitor.
She goes into confront the thieves and Richard Browntreeve is staying outside to like call for
help if need be, but they swap hearing aids with each other so they can listen to each
other's conversationally, listen to what's going on on each other's phones, you know, and
it's just really cool.
It's a really cool thing that's happening.
So that part is, it's really fun.
It's just a really fun movie on the whole.
I just don't, I don't really know.
I have a hard time with what this movie is going for.
I feel like it's trying to say that we're doing too much like infantilizing of elderly people
because it doesn't really treat them very well, but at the same time, they really make fun
of old people in the smoothie.
Yeah.
Like there's a lot of jokes at old people's expense.
Like there's a running bit where Thelma keeps encountering people on the streets, just
other elderly people.
And she's like, do I know you?
And then the other older, do I know you?
Do you know Joe?
Oh, I don't know if I know Joe.
Do you know Tom?
I or maybe, maybe.
And it's just like she never knows any of these people.
But this is just what old people do.
It's very strange.
And then there's, at one point, they go to visit another elderly friend of hers because
they're aware that she has a gun and Thelma wants to get a gun.
So she can, so she could shake down these people who took her money.
But when they go to visit the elderly friend, the friend is clearly in the deepest part
of Alzheimer's where she just doesn't really know what's going on.
Just bugs everywhere in the house.
Yeah, there's cockroaches all over the house.
And it's, like, she's living in this really filthy spot.
And she's in this chair and it's, like, when was the last time this woman got up out of
this chair?
It's not really clear.
It doesn't look great.
And yet, one point, when they say they're like, how are you doing?
And she goes, I'm alive.
And they're like, oh, that's great.
Like, this is like, so I don't know.
The movie does a lot of talking about the idea of independence versus comfort, right?
Like solitude versus companionship.
Yeah.
Where Richard Roundshoe lives in this nursing home and he loves it.
And all of his needs are taken care of and he's got this community of people around him.
But he's also not independent.
He's not, he's not a functional adult anymore.
He's just no longer a member of society.
And then the other side of that is this senile elderly woman who's living by herself, but
is, she has also been forgotten by society, but no one is looking after her.
And we get the impression that she is just waiting to die.
And Thelma is in between.
And we're like, what are we doing?
Does she want to go and live in this retirement home and give up her independence?
Or would she rather stay on her own and possibly wind up like this other friend?
And the movie doesn't really give an answer to that, which I think is okay.
I'm not looking to have the movie explain that, but it's an interesting dichotomy.
But it's just that it's another movie doesn't really take a stance on anything, which is
so that I can't really tell what it's about other than just being a fun good time, which
maybe it is.
Yeah.
But I don't know.
It has these hints that it wants to.
I think it's, it's mainly about her trying, like the whole main plot is about her trying
to get her money back.
Right.
From these crooks.
Yeah.
And, and how, and that's a funny scenario.
Yeah.
That's a fun setup.
And the movie is fun.
There's no doubt about it.
To explore like how elderly people live in like the three ways you said.
Yeah.
I think that's interesting just as, as, just side quests, you know, I just, I, I just feel
like there are the movies is giving us flimpses of ideas that are never really seen
through, you know.
So Parker Posey plays Thelma's daughter and the mother of the grandson.
And there's an interesting thing where she talks to both her mother and her son in the exact
same way where she's just constantly mothering both of them.
Oh, you should be doing this.
Oh, you should be doing that where they're both adults and both and both being treated
like children.
Yeah.
You know, and it's just like maybe we should just be letting adults be adults, but then
at some point, sometimes people need being taken care of.
So I don't know.
Like I said, it feels like the movie wants to say things and then often just discards them
in favor of fun.
Okay.
And I'm okay with that, you know, it's a fun movie.
I, I really liked it.
And it's, it's kind of sweet, you know, I liked it too.
I went with my mom and saw it at the movie theater and it was a perfect mom movie.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
I'm definitely once a, this is another one of those movies that I don't think is available
for streaming if you pay for it.
So it's not a, it's not a movie that you can get by subscribing to a service yet.
No, yeah, that's correct.
Right.
Obviously, it's a great mom movie like when my mom, as soon as it comes to one of the streaming
services for that you can subscribe to, I'm definitely going to tell my mom to watch it
and I'm sure she's going to love it.
Yes.
Just one of those movies.
Yeah.
It's a really good mom.
Do you want to talk about the end?
Uh, yeah.
What would it, what would it mean?
Oh, when she confronts the, yeah.
So it turns out, uh, the mastermind behind the whole thing is another elderly guy, uh,
he's played by Malcolm McDowell.
Uh, you know, reprising his band.
And his grandson, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
He's, uh, he's, this is what happens to the little Alex from a clockwork orange.
What is 50 years down the road?
Uh, and he's got oxygen, he's got an oxygen tank and he's breathing through and his grandson
is the one who impersonated, Thelma's grandson on the phone to get everything going.
And he can't work his computer either.
Uh, and Malcolm McDowell is constantly insulting his grandson.
And once the grandson finds out that he's being insulted so many times, he's like, all right,
screw this.
And he decides to stop helping.
So Thelma is trying to get Malcolm McDowell to transfer the money back into her account,
but he can't work the computer either.
So she has to call her grandson up.
And he helps her get the transfer to the, to get the money transferred back into her
account.
And like, well, won't he just be able to undo this and then Thelma takes the gun that she
stole from her senior high-friend and shoots the computer several times?
He's like, now, now he's solved that problem.
And she got her money back.
And it's, you know, it's like all's well that I've got.
Yeah.
And there's a lot of like back and forth in the relationship between Richard Roundtree's
character and her too, that is really good.
Yeah.
He's clearly this really like vivacious old guy, right?
He's full of life.
And he's always trying to get her out and doing things.
And she's, you know, it's hard because she's old.
Yeah.
But yeah, they have a really cool relationship.
And oh, at some point, she leaves his scooter out in the middle of the road and it gets
smashed by a car.
So I didn't see coming.
Yeah.
No.
So now they have no scooter and it's just, you know, they're like ghetto.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So now she's got a by Richard Roundtree replacement rascal.
But yeah, I mean, yeah, it's, this movie is very low stakes.
Reminding me of the Big Lebowski in a way where the Big Lebowski, you can look at it as
a film noir where it's like a hard boiled detective story, except the hard boiled detective is a
stone idiot.
Yeah.
So this is the same kind of thing, right?
Where it's like, it's this film noir, she's tracking down this thing, except we're taking
it all very seriously, except it's not serious, not particularly serious at all.
It's very low stakes.
I like those movies.
Yeah, it's great.
It's a lot of fun.
Yeah.
It's a lot of fun.
So I definitely enjoyed this movie on the terms it is going for.
I was too. I think that my old ass and felma, like both were kind of low stakes, kind of fun,
breezy.
And I want to say, did you stick around for the after credits on felma?
No.
I think the director, I think this happened.
I think this was, this was true.
Oh, really?
Yeah, because there's scenes of the director's grandmother, real grandmother.
Oh, yeah, yeah, I did see, I did see you a little bit of this real grandmother.
So I think that maybe this is based on a true story or half fictionalized, half true.
Okay.
So we come to the big question, Ken.
Yes.
Is it past, pirate or pay for felma?
All right, for felma, I'm going to put this in the pay category.
Pay category?
Yeah, it is.
Yeah, I think this movie is worth your money.
It's a good time.
And listen, for all you filmmakers out there who have made these movies that are listening
intently to our podcast, it's high praise to get a pay from Ken.
Yeah, yeah, I agree.
It is high praise.
I hand out pays a little more liberally.
Ken does not.
I feel like if you put down money for this movie, it's going to be hard for you to be
disappointed.
This movie succeeds on its terms and there's no two ways about it.
It does.
You leave the theater a little happier.
Yeah.
Yup.
It's just a movie that works.
Yeah, I like it.
A.
All right.
So let's recap real quick.
All right.
So we had our first movie, which was My Old Ass.
My Old Ass.
And that was a pay for sure.
That is a pay for us.
That is a pay for us.
Absolutely.
Then we had the substance, the Gore Fest about beauty and aging.
And that was a pirate for you.
Pired for me.
Pay for me.
Yup.
And then we had Felma, which was pay for both of us.
All right.
That's great.
That's how it is.
We've done well.
See?
We can talk about women's issues.
We can.
I mean, we've liked all three of these movies.
We did.
We've reviewed three good movies.
Yeah.
I'm pay, pay, pay.
I'm free, pay.
I mean fantastic, fantastic work.
Yeah.
Great stuff.
Yes.
Good job, ladies.
Keep it up.
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Oh, no.
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