Holy Zealots!!!

 And lo, Ken and Andy did venture into the land of cinematic zealotry, where the faithful and the fanatical dwelled. And they spake of Red State, the tale of a cultish church led astray, and of Saint Maud, the story of a maiden consumed by her fervent piety. Yea, they also proclaimed the coming of Heretic, the newest revelation starring Hugh Grant, now showing in the temples of film. And it was said: “Judge ye these films, whether they be a Pass, Pirate, or Pay.” Thus sayeth the podcasters. Amen. 

Check us out at www.passpiratepay.com

Chapters

• 5:51 Red State
• 25:20 Red State Verdict
• 26:05 Saint Maud
• 38:54 Saint Maud Verdict
• 39:31 Heretic
• 56:31 Heretic Verdict

Transcript

0:00

[music] All right, hello everybody and welcome once again to Pass Pirate Pay, the movie discussion show. My name is Ken, I'm your host alongside my co-host Andy. Hello! Hello, Andy, how are you doing today? Pretty good, how are you, Ken? Very good, thank you. Today we're going to be discussing a trio of movies about religious zealots. Religious zealots, Andy, you and I can relate to this in that we are basically anti-religious zealots. We are, I guess, I was going to ask you before the show started where you stand on religion. Yeah, I'm pretty much against it, I think religion is not a good thing for society as a whole or for people in general. If you had your way, you would do away with it. Yeah, I mean, I don't necessarily have a problem with people believing in God. It's the organized religion that really seems to just do harm. Yeah, it leads to tribalism which just leads to my thing is good and your thing is bad, right? There's just so much of the problems in this world are caused by people thinking that they have the one true answer given to them from up on high. Yeah, it just doesn't seem to work. It really is a problem. When you think your divine and the divine is on your side, it's like this magical thinking that leads you to believe that your way is greater than others. Like you said, yeah. Yeah, exactly. And it's just like within this country to be sure, but there's just like if you look at any society in general, it's just so many problems are caused by, you know, a lot of almost every country is dominated by a group of religious people who believe in one thing and then everybody else in that society is kind of on the outside. Yeah. And it's like if you don't believe in our thing, then you're a second class types that is said, you know. What about your own like personal beliefs? I'm basically an atheist. Yeah. Yeah. You know, like I have a hard time believing that there's anything out there beyond what I can see more believe with my own eyes. I did recently have an experience where I took mushrooms and watched some videos of Roy Clark playing the guitar. And you had a moment of divinity and I did. There was a brief period there for like an hour where I was like, well, there has to be a god because this man has surely been tapped by him. You know, I love that because Roy Clark is one of my my most favorite face melting pickers. I had never heard of him before that day. Never. My dad introduced me to Roy Clark on he hog. Yeah. A while ago. I just went down this YouTube rabbit hole, you know, I'm taking the items on these mushrooms and I just kept watching these videos and I just I was completely struck dumb by how this man could do the thing that he does. He's a badass. And the only things I could think the only two possibilities that I could think of were A. He's an alien or B. He has been touched by some kind of divine force. I love that. I love how the dude from he hog. Yeah. Like almost got you to believe in a god. Yeah. It happened. I was really flirting with it. I've since I've since come down and now I just think he's like this really sickly talented human being, but you know for a little minute there. I was like, maybe just maybe I was wrong about this whole thing. All right. But before we before we get into our movies, the movies this week we're going to be talking about are 2011's red state 2019 St. Maude and 2024's heretic. Yeah. But before we get into those apparently we've got some listener feedback. That's right. We've got some viewer mail. Yeah. Or listener mail. I love to hear what the people are saying about past pirate pay. All right. I will give you an example. All right. So these were both submissions for our last show. Okay. The world's oldest profession where we did Anora. We did pretty woman and we did best of all for our house in Texas. We got a comment from my buddy George Lurfield, howlin king crawdad. He says your comments on anora were spot on an excellent movie and Andy is wrong about the Florida film. Ooh. I thought that was great also. And if you are interested in Hollywood history check out my Facebook page project JNS about my ancestors. Okay. I think George has some very famous old school movie making relatives. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. Well, from that email I can tell he has exquisite taste in movies. It seems to know exactly what's going on. It's fine. I know I'm an outlier on the Florida project. It's fine. I know that. But yeah, thank you for listening, George. And thank you for contacting us. Yeah. Thanks, George. Okay. This next one is from @sumoris6336. Sumoris. You say? And I'm not sure what her handle is, but I'm pretty positive. This is my mother. Oh. And she says the Morris family love Dolly and everything she does. What woman would not be happy with Bert? I really like this segment. That's awesome. Yeah. I'm glad she didn't come down on you for not liking it. Yeah. Yeah. She pulled the positive out of it. Yeah. Sue, I'm very sorry for all the negative things I said about Dolly. This one, I'm going to have you happy to be the outlier on. All right. So those are our two viewer mails. We have not had any listener mail from people we don't know. Yeah. Well, you know, eventually one day. One day. One day. One day. It's a good day. I'm happy to be the outlier. It's a good day. I'm happy to be the outlier. I'm happy to be the outlier. I'm happy to be the outlier. I'm happy to be the outlier. I'm happy to be the outlier. I'm happy to be the outlier. And I'm happy to be the outlier. And I'm happy to be the outlier. And I'm happy to be the outlier. And I'm happy to be the outlier. And I'm happy to be the outlier. I'm happy to be the outlier. And I'm happy to be the outlier. I'm happy to be the outlier. I'm happy to be the outlier. I'm happy to be the outlier. I'm happy to be the outlier. So yeah, well, what do you say we get into these movies, huh? All right, let's do it. All right, let's get started with 2011's red state, and directed by Kevin Smith. Yes. And so I, I've been on a really big winning streak lately with movies. Our listeners might notice that I've had many pays from our last few episodes. But in addition to that, all of the movies that I've seen that we haven't talked about in the show have just been really good. I've just been liking a lot of things. Except the last airbender. Well, I mean, that's one of the bottom 100 movies of all time, right? Yeah, yeah. But yeah, so when we started, one of the reasons why we started this podcast is because like I have a reputation of being a person who hates everything, right? And it's just funny to hear me talk about things that I hate, I guess, which is why we're doing our better than Glee segments and things like that. And so I got to thinking as I was in the theater after one of these great movies I had just seen and I was like, am I getting soft? Do I just like everything now? I don't like where this is going. Yeah, so I started to doubt myself. Maybe I'm getting old, maybe I'm getting soft. And then my good old friend Kevin Smith comes to the rescue. So you notoriously, I do not like Kevin Smith. I think that all of his movies are bad. This is a spoiler alert. There are Kevin Smith movies I haven't seen. I'm going to do a past-pired-pay episode featuring any Kevin Smith movie that I have ever seen. It would be a pass every single one of them. This includes clerks. This is dogma, mall rats, any of these supposedly good ones. They're all terrible to me. I think they're all bad movies. So red state, it's different. It's a change of pace, right? It's not a raunchy comedy of the type of Kevin Smith movies that I've seen because I've pretty much stopped watching Kevin Smith movies after Jay and Silent Bob strike back. So most of the ones I've seen are all in the same kind of vein. But this one, it's about these three teenage boys in some kind of middle American state. They see an ad on Craigslist or something about a woman who's going to have sex with them. And all they got to do is go to the boonies of the outskirts of the town where they live. And this woman is going to have sex with them. Only to realize that this whole thing is in a labor trap from these religious wackos who are opposed to sin of all kinds. And they're going to, it's like a cult. It's like a Westboro Baptist kind of. Yeah, but it's also like a branch divinity and kind of thing, the David Koresh cult kind of situation, where it's led by this charismatic leader who is, you know, his whole thing is that the gays are ruining America and the whole thing. So the boys are roofied once they get to this woman's trailer and they're tied up in this church. And they're about to be killed when things go wrong and then the government shows up. And then it really does become like Waco. And there's a government standoff between these ATF agents and the members of the church who are heavily armed. And shit goes haywire. I want to start this movie discussion by talking about Quentin Tarantino. Okay. And Quentin Tarantino and Kevin Smith, they're, they're kind of tied together, right? They both came up through indie movies in the right around the same time, right? Yeah, exactly. And they're both guys who have no formal training, like they never went to film school, they never worked, you know, they didn't. Very passionate about film, though, but they're like obnoxiously prone to talking about the things that they like. Yeah, one of the things I really like about Kevin Smith is when he's talking about movies and talking about making his own movies. Yeah, it's really, really compelling. Yeah, I disagree totally. So both Tarantino and Kevin Smith, I, I love Quentin Tarantino movies and hate Kevin Smith movies, but I have the exact same zero level interest in hearing either one of them talk about anything that they're doing. I find them both to be thoroughly obnoxious. I love hearing both of them talk about movies. Oh my God. And they both have a tendency to put themselves in their own movies, despite the fact that neither one of them can act for shit. But the difference is that Quentin Tarantino is like a serious student of movies, right? He worked in a movie theater, he worked in a video store, and he's just seen everything, right? Yeah, he's seen everything like 70s exploitation movies or French new wave movies all over the world. Yeah, yeah, just he's seen it all. And he like absorbed these things. He's got a famous quote where he's like when people ask me if I went to film school, he says no, I went to films where it's just like this thing. Like he watched these movies and he absorbed it and he learned like the language of cinema how to make a movie like where to put a camera in order to tell a story and how to edit a scene together so that it makes sense. Yeah, Kevin Smith did none of these things and never has that been more like like his whole thing was, hey, my friends like telling dick jokes. So maybe if I just have a camera and pointed at my friends while they're telling dick jokes, people are going to like it. And for some reason, he's continued to be allowed to make these movies where it's just like I don't fucking understand who is watching Kevin Smith movies is like well, the guy said snoochy boochies 30 years ago. Now that we got watch whatever the fuck this guy has to do. I can't imagine a more ineptly made movie than red state like this is I don't even know what number movie this is for Kevin Smith. But he is got at least 10 movies under his belt by the time he makes this thing. Yeah. And yet he still has no fucking idea how to make a movie like the camera seems like it's operated by somebody like an alcoholic going through DT's. It's just constantly or somebody with Parkinson's disease, but isn't that part of the feel for like a like a horror drama like that handheld jiggly. I didn't add to the tension there are parts where that could be the case, but like there's a scene where people are just like these these this family is watching something on TV and it's just a shot of a television. That's it. That's what the shot is. It's the TV. The camera is pointed at a television and yet it's like shaking all around while it's usually all you have to do is have you not a tripod. Whether you know I would ever the fuck you used to make a movie have you can't just sit the camera on something and pointed at the television if that's what you're doing. And like he's and he can't get out of his own way if people are having a conversation if somebody is saying a sentence you can't just point the camera at the character and let him fix his sentence. There are multiple times in this movie where like the character is in mid sentence and the camera will just cut in the middle of the person sentence to another shot of the same character. It's just like an inch different from like why are you editing this movie why are you not just allowing one shot to have this thing that's happening. It makes no sense to me there are so many like actiony kind of sequences in this movie where characters are chasing one another or running away from some danger and it's just cut cut cut cut cut cut just so many quick cuts where you have no idea what's going on. Completely impossible to follow the action that's happening it just it made me so angry like I can't express to you how irritating I find Kevin Smith's filmmaking style particularly in this movie there's a long scene John Goodman one of many talented actors who is totally under utilized and just slumming it in this piece of shit movie. And there's a long scene where he's getting a directive from someone above him in Washington or whatever about what they have to do to take this compound except the entire scene is just John Goodman we never see the other end of the conversation and it's just long scenes of John Goodman having a conversation into his phone where you can't hear what's happening on the other end of the conversation. No idea why he's doing this it's it goes on in terminably it's completely nonsensical to me why this is happening because later on after everything goes to shit in the movie we see John Goodman interacting with his superiors and we get both sides of their conversations is just like you're already going to have these actors playing the the higher ups in the ATF or the federal government or whatever. And I'm not just include them in these other scenes what did you not just just want to not write the dialogue for the other parts of the section I don't get it one other really an apt thing that happens is the boys are tied up in the church and one of them is taped to a crucifix and he's about to be killed first and the other two are taped together in this seller and the two kids in the seller one of them is played by Nicholas brawn who go. So he gets free of the tape and he can't get the tape off the other kids he just runs and he runs away and winds up he finds himself in this arsenal and he's got all these these machine guns there so he picks up a machine gun and one of the cult guys is coming after him and he's a stupid kid so he doesn't know how to work the machine gun so he gets shot he winds up killing the one cult guy that's coming after him but he's not going to be in the middle of the game. after him but not before he's also killed. So he's dead. And then the next thing we see, the church guys are talking about oh, don't worry, both those kids are taking care of. And somehow, the other kid who was in the cellar has been moved to the arsenal and all of the cult members are like, he's dead. Don't worry about them. But he's not dead. He hasn't been shot for some more somehow. We're supposed to believe that they have just moved him into this arsenal room and left him tied up there and somehow forgotten that they didn't kill him. And it's just like, no, he's dead. But then he's not dead. And he just gets up and starts causing more havoc. It's like totally a failure of editing. I don't know if there was supposed to be some scene that explained how this happened or a failure of writing or just Kevin Smith has a head injury. I have no idea. I can't, I can't figure it out. It's so stupid, so inept. I can't take it. I just can't take it. Spoiler warning, spoilers ahead, skip to the next chapter or minute marker, 25 minutes and 20 seconds to hear the verdict. You have been warned. So the movie ends with all of the church people being killed and many of the ATF guys being killed also. And we get this inquest where John Goodman is talking to his superiors. And one of the superiors asked him what's going on and John Goodman launches into this story about how when he was a kid, he had these two dogs and they were the sweetest dogs in the world. And one day at Thanksgiving, there were these two dogs watching him. They were watching him eat and they're like, well, the dogs always love me because I never finished my meals. Number one, this is John Goodman. Okay. But whatever. So he's like, they know I'm never going to finish my meal. So I have this turkey leg and I throw it to the two dogs and these two sweet dogs just start looking like they're going to rip each other apart to get at this turkey leg. Yeah. And it's just like, okay, cool story. What the fuck does that have to do with anything that just happened in this movie? And the answer is nothing. It doesn't tie together with it. I feel like Kevin Smith wrote that scene and he's like, nailed it. I just, I just summed up this whole thing with this parable of the two dogs in a turkey leg, but it doesn't have any fucking thing to do with what just happened in the movie. It's totally completely separate from anything. It doesn't connect in any way. So the, and that's the end of the movie. That's it. So I just, I just don't understand with this movie. Um, that's not what I remember about the end of the movie. I remember about how the whole situation ended was the big horn. Yeah. Yeah. So there is a big horn. So apparently the cult had been feuding with these neighbors. And so the neighbors solution is they're going to blow this horn. And when they blow this really loud air horn, all of the cult people think that this signifies the second coming of Jesus. So that's why and so they're all like, yeah, they all drop all their weapons and some, and all the ones who are not killed are then arrested and they're, they're sent to prison. You know, yeah. So that's how it ends, but we're supposed to think that for a brief period, we're supposed to think that that Jesus is coming or something, right? Because we don't know where the horn is coming from, right? But yeah, that's, that's how it is. John Gunman explains it, right? Right. Exactly. Then it's explained. It's totally explained away. And yeah. And then there's a joke that one of the secure one of the superior federal guys tells of like that the cult leader guy who survives, he hates gay people. But now he's about to get some, get some lessons when he goes to prison, right? Yeah. But then we show a shot of him at the end of the movie and he's just in solitary confinement of being a lunatic, just being the same kind of maniac he's always been. So it's just like, we don't get any kind of sense that he's going to be sent into Genpop to go get raped or whatever, which would be, I guess hilarious come up in for this fucking guy. I don't know. But yeah. So I, I don't know. Oh, one last thing that really bugged the fuck out of me. These, there's a, there's a shot in the movie where we see all of the signs that these church people use to protest the gay people in their town. And it's, it's the usual signs that it's like, you know, God hates fags and stuff like that. Yeah. But then there's one sign that said, and this is such a fucking Kevin Smith joke that the sign says, pork products, not dudes. Where it's, it's such a fucking Kevin Smith joke, but there's no, no fucking way any kind of religious cult. This, this religious cult as, as we're seeing it would never have this stupid fucking sign in their midst. It's such a dumb joke that he's just like, I can't help myself. I got to, I can't have Jason musing this movie, but I got to split, I got to set some dumb shit in here anyway. And that's what he does. I think that's pretty funny. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So I just, I just don't understand what this movie is when I was under the impression that it's a horror movie, but I didn't find it, I didn't think anything about it was particularly horrific. Well, I think it's like a thriller. I guess I, it's not a comedy. It's not, it's not a horror movie. It's not an action movie. I don't know what the fuck it is. I don't know what the point of this movie is. I don't, I also don't understand why it's called red state unless it's just like Kevin Smith wants West Coast liberals to feel good about themselves by laughing at all the people in this movie. I have no idea what the phrase red state has to do with this movie. Well, maybe a, like, blood, like red, I guess, man. That was certainly never, and that this is probably the thing that would happen in a red state. Yeah. I, I sure, but like, I don't know. I mean, like, I don't want to say that Kevin Smith is the reason that Donald Trump has been reelected president, but it's kind of like this is why they hate us because this fucking dipshit is like, this is what the fucking people in Tennessee are like. This is the kind of shit that they do there is like they, those people all think that the coastal elites look down at them. And that's exactly what this movie is. Kevin Smith is a coastal elite looking down his nose at people who by the way are in no way worse than he is because he is the fucking worst. Oh, I don't know about that. That's pretty hard for me. I, I, I thought, I thought this was a take on the Westboro Baptist Church, which are pieces of shit. Yeah. Like, you're allowed to say that this church is a piece of shit if they are sure that he's not condemning everybody in a, in a red state because of that is this is, this is very pointed. I, I, I don't, I, I disagree, I disagree. And like, yeah, it's so stupid. Well, he's had a lot of run-ins with the Westboro Baptist Church. He, they, they picketed dogma, right? And he famously joined the picket line. Yeah. In disguise. Well, good for him. I would pick a dogma too. Them we sucks. Oh, Jesus. Yeah. Uh, so yeah, you wouldn't pick it up for the same reason. I'm sure, but you know, I would still be out there. I would like, yeah, let's get this fucking movie out of here. You know, I've got a really good time of Kevin Smith movies over the years. I think that maybe your, you on film is so serious that a silly movie can't be entertaining. That's not true. Oh, I love silly movies. Like what? I don't know like, I do love Mel Brooks. But yeah, but the producers blazing saddles. Those are like some of my favorite movies. I don't think they're a far cry from Kevin Smith movies. Yeah. Because everyone is good and one is not. That's the thing. Like I don't mind a silly movie as long as it's funny. Like it just has to be good. I can't handle when a movie is, is attempting to be funny without any kind of acting, writing, or directing talent behind the, was there anything you liked about it at all? No, nothing, nothing. I liked Michael Park in it. I've always liked Michael Park. Yeah. I like him in Tarantino movies. I don't, I don't like him here. I don't think, I, I guess he's doing the thing that he's supposed to be doing, which is being a cartoonish, religious Michael Park is good and everything. Yeah. He's in tusk too, which, which I guess will revisit on a later day. I have a feeling I can't imagine you liking it, but I've never seen it. But I have a feeling how that would might go. I thought it was a, it was a really big swing and I really liked it for that. Yeah. That's, that's another story. Yeah. Like, so, yeah, I mean, just like the whole plot of this movie is started by this church that hates gay people and the way that they're going to punish gay people is by having a woman recruit young boys to have sex with them. Yeah. Straight boy. Yeah. This is like these three straight kids. And we're like, well, that's, we're going to show those fags, what, what for? By getting these three straight kids is like, well, no. And the explanation is, well, you, you boys were going to have sex with this woman while the other two were watching. So you're worse than gay people. Like what fuck you? What are you doing? Come the fuck on. I, yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. All right. So is that, that you're saying, that's your take on red state? That's what I got about red state. That's where I'm going with red state. Just for the record. Yeah. I, I kind of dug red state. Yeah. I kind of liked it. I was entertained by it. Yeah. And I like a lot of Kevin Smith movies. Yeah. So I'm, I'm not, I definitely get your point though. I did watch the newest Kevin Smith movie, which actually got pretty good reviews. Yeah. People have been liking it. And I watched it and I got maybe three quarters of the way through. And I'm like, I can't do this anymore. This dialogue is so bad. Yeah. And these situations are so stupid. I just can't do it anymore. And this is supposed to be one of his better ones. Yeah. But I couldn't do it. But I do love listening to his spoken word stuff. Yeah. I do love Tarantino spoken word stuff. I find it really fascinating. Yeah. I mean, to listen to them talk about that. Listen, Quentin, I know you're, I know you're a listener. We've talked about this before. And my friend, I love your work. It's nothing to do with that. It's just, I don't know. I just, I have a hard time listening to talk about movies, but keep making them because you're doing a great job. All right. So, so can just, you know, so we get this on tape. Yeah. This is the whole thing. Is it past pirate pay for red state for you? Red state will be a pass, pass. Do yourself a favor. Stay as far away from this movie. You may want to avoid movies with either the word red or state in the title. That's about just based on all of them. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, like, enemy of the state red dawn, just just, I'm, I'll point those for a while, just like in case, in case some of this red state shit starts to bleed into it, maybe just be safe and stay away. All right. I'm a pirate on it. Yeah. I'm a pirate on it. I don't know if I'd pay. I don't think I paid. Yeah. I'm, I'm a pirate. I know. All right. Oh, second movie today is going to be 2019's Saint Maud, as directed by Rose Glass. I don't even think that I had heard of this movie before you suggested that we do it on the show. I hadn't either. I, I, I actually googled like, religious movies. Yeah. So religious zealot movies. Yeah. So I had absolutely zero idea what to expect going to this movie. And, and, uh, this is one of those reasons why I'm a person who loves to get to the theater early to watch movies, even though most of the time when I watch movie trailers, I'm annoyed because they give away too much of the movie. Yeah. And then a lot of times I'll be watching movie trailers. And if, if I like it, I'll just cut it. Yeah. I'll just stop watching it. Yep. And this is a perfect example of why I love going into movies cold because I cannot remember a movie that I've seen where I had less of an idea of what was going to happen as it was unfolding. Yeah. It's like everything. So I'm going to, I'm not going to, I'm not going to go too deep into plot details on this movie just because I think the, the experience of not knowing what's going on is, is a lot of the fun of the movie. It was for me anyway. Cause it's just like, like I said, I was like, things are happening and every time something I have them, like, whoa, shit. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. But the bare bones of this movie are that there's a woman named Maud or Kelly is a, is there other name? It might be a pseudonym. Yeah. She is a nurse and she is sent to take care of this woman, this old dancer who's dying of cancer. And this is in present day. Yeah. It's present day. Yeah. Because people have cell phones and stuff. Yeah. So it's, it's a present day movie. But yeah, it does feel old. Like the dancer she lives in this like secluded countryside manner. So we're in England. Next to Coney Island, which I had no idea there was a Coney Island in the UK. Oh, I see. Is that, I thought it was just a place that was named after the Coney Island in Brooklyn. It might be, but, but it is, there is a Coney Island. Yeah. Yeah. I was totally, yeah. It was totally weird to me too. I had no idea. Yeah. And some people had accents and some didn't. Yeah. So I was like, is that in New York? Yeah. It doesn't look like it because the dancer sounds like an American when she's talking. So I don't, yeah, I don't know. But yeah. So she goes to take care of this woman who's dying and Maud is a very, very religious person. And it's revealed that something happened in her previous nursing job that has caused her to have this religious awakening and change her name and, you know, become this person who's really, really, really into God. Yeah. But I think, like, and I think there are a lot of people like this, kind of, like, kind of insane. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And they, they kind of use religion as this prism for their insanity. Yeah. Because I think if you say you're religious, you are, you're instantly given some sort of virtue. Uh-huh. And you can kind of hide behind that and be crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, uh, yeah. That's, that's kind of the point that I was going to make about this movie is that I think it is almost as much of a movie about insanity as it is a movie about religion, about a, about religious fervor. And I guess, I mean, it's probably those are two sides of the same coin. There'd be a lot of people that would be pissed at her. I say that. Well, you know, whatever. Uh-huh. How many of these people are listening to our podcasts? Let's be real. I mean, you know, even, even if even if we become very, very prominent podcasters, I'm guessing that a large chunk of our audience is not going to be super religious people. It's just, it's just a guess, you know, I think the people who be pissed are the people who are lightly religious people. Maybe, maybe, maybe. So, mod, she does not love God so much as she is in love with God. Right? Yeah. Like she is super into God. She, she's constantly talking about like, at one point, she says something like, I talk to God all the time. And when he's pleased, I get a shiver. Like, she's like, she's like, feeling, I've heard religious people say things like that. Yeah. She's like, feeling the religious ecstasy. And there are a number of shots in the early part of this movie where it's like, it, it kind of looks like they're using CGI to like elongate her face, which is kind of scary. Yeah. Very subtle. Super creepy looking. Yeah. Exactly. You can't even really, you can barely tell that it's happening. Right. But it's something's off. Yeah. It just gives you that weird. Yeah. And, and it, the movie does a kind of thing where it's, it's almost like using the conventions of demon possession movies to describe her communion with God. Right? Where it's just like a lot of the times where she's in her most ecstatic God like filled, filled with God's daypages, it's shot like the exorcist, you know, whereas it's like she's floating. Yeah. It's all very, yeah, it's all very, it's all very creepy. Yeah. This is a really, but it always like, it always like clicks back and forth in the editing to the real world. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So you know what's going on in her head and let's yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. This, this, this movie is is very, very moody. Yeah. The score for the most part is very minimal. There's not a lot of music. And when it's there, it's kind of like really slow and droning and just setting a tone. But then there are a few times where things get really intense. And the music just really, really picks up. And then there's a scene where stuff kind of starts to fall apart for mod, the director, she really does a great job of this is the, this is the Kevin Smith thing that you were talking about where it's like camera movement to like heighten the, the horror elements of it. Yeah. Cause this uses a lot of shaky camera and quick cuts and stuff like that, except it's centralized only in this one small part of the movie where you're supposed to feel like mod is kind of losing touch with reality. And it kind of just puts you in her frame of mind. Right. And it does like a really great job of it. I thought, like, I, I thought it just made things super intense. You know, like the movie is directed like the director is kind of like the orchestra conductor, where it's just like I kind of am feeling all of the things that she wants me to be feeling while I'm watching it at all times. It's kind of like a masterful job of, of manipulating the emotion of the audience is just really good filmmaking, I think. Yeah. Yeah. There's a scene that talking about the insanity part, there's a scene where about halfway through the movie where we meet one of mods, former co-workers, a nurse that had worked with her. And you know, she starts up, bleakly referencing things, the thing that happened that got her fired from her last job. And she's like, oh, you know, we all kind of blamed ourselves for it because we could see that you were going through some problems and it's like, well, what's going on? And we're like, what's going on here? And then shortly after that, mod is making some tea for the dancer. And she just decides to put her wrist on the burner of the stove. And at that point, up until that point, you're kind of thinking, oh, she's just this very strictly religious person, right? But then at that, after that, you're like, oh, what is with this girl? Is she? Is she nuts? I kind of think she might be nuts, right? And it kind of goes from there. And then there's a scene later on where she is, she picks up some random dude in a bar and starts having sex with him. Yeah. And we see her straddling the guy. She's on top of him and she's got her hands on his chest. And then she goes into this flashback mode of giving compression CPR compressions on somebody's chest. Yeah. And then she pushes in on the guys, the guys she's having sex with his chest and caves his chest in and really blood starts coming out everywhere. Yeah. Right. But it's all it's very brief like it's only a half second thing. And then we're back to normal. And she's freaking out in bed with this guy, right? But it's just like, okay, so we're getting kind of a thought of this is what happened. This is what probably happened in her previous job where she was supposed to be taking care of somebody and is just and it went wrong. Yeah, just went wrong. And it's just like as the movie goes on and on, we just kind of get more and more of a sense that mod is this kind of unhinged person. And the religious part of it may be a manifestation of her insanity, but it might it's also kind of what's keeping her together for for some of it, you know, which kind of religion does. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. There are a lot of people who go through some go through some serious shit in their lives and they just fill that shit with God because they can't figure out how else to cope with. Right. Right. Yeah. You know, and there's a lot of sense that that's that's what mod is doing. Spoiler warning. Spoiler's ahead. Skip to the next chapter or minute marker. 39 minutes to hear the verdict. You have been warned. The dancer throws this party. The dancer is drinking a lot because she's dying and it's just like, you know, what are you going to do? Right. She's drunk all the time, but who gives a shit? She's going to be dead anyway. Right. So she's but mod is not having it. She wants the woman to be solely concentrated on saving her soul. Yeah. Before she dies. So she's at this party with the dancer and trying to get get the dancer to take things more seriously and the dancer just kind of laughs at her. So mod slaps her across the face and then she's fired. The dancer just fires her. So then towards the end of the movie, mod just goes back to the dancer's house and the dancer says to her, you must be the loneliest girl in the world, which I thought is just like, wow, like just cuts right to the point, which I think is a large part of what mod's problem is. Where it's just like she just has no one in this world. And that's why she's so reliant on God because because she's kind of a weirdo, I guess is why she doesn't she's not able to make friends. And in the middle of the movie, you can see her trying to go out and socialize. Yeah. It just doesn't go on. She just can't do it. She doesn't know how to do it. Yeah. So yeah, so the dancer tells her you must be the loneliest girl in the world and then mod has this hallucination that the dancer is possessed by a demon. That's scary. Really scary. Like this is one of those things where it's like, what the fuck? I had no sense. I came out of nowhere. Big jump scare. Really big jump scare. And mod like like you didn't you get the sense, I my thought is that none of this is actually real. But on screen, you see mod like shot across the room by the power of this demon or whatever. And it's just like super scary. And then so mod response is to just stab the dancer to death multiple times just just stab stab stab stab stab stab and just dead, right? Like and so so that's how she takes care of the dancer. And then it's it. That's it for mod. She is totally gone. She starts having this delusion that she she is sprouting angel wings. Yeah. And she gets this notion that she's gonna ascend into heaven and the way that she's gonna do it. She pours some flammable whatever acetate. I don't know what sure when it is. Something flammable. She pours it over her head in the middle of this park and on a beach, right? Is it a beat? Yeah, it's a beat. And there's people standing around like watching her. Somebody stop her. But in her head, it's just like these people like, oh, what is happening? And they all fall to their knees. Yeah. Like this woman is ascending into heaven. But in reality, we see it is like somebody stop this crazy woman. And she just lights herself on fire. Yeah. And like goes up in flames. And that's how the movie ends. What I really liked about the very end was she's on fire. And there's and there and she looks like the mother Mary and the flames are going up. But then there's just a flash. Yep. Of of of of a fucking nasty woman burning. Right. The movie on fire. The bloody and screaming last like half second of the movie is just her on fire shrieking like the reality of it. And it's just like, you get like you don't think you're going to get it. And it's like all the people fall to their knees and it's this colorful religious imagery and everything. But then right at the end, they just give you that there's the reality. Yeah. Boom. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. So like I said, I did not see any of that coming. I just I didn't know where the movie was going. And as it was going there, I was like, okay, this is cool. I've just thought it was a really cool movie. Yeah. Yeah. It was it was totally unexpected. And I just just a not really well made movie. I really enjoyed it. All right. Yeah. All right. Can so just for the record now. Uh-huh. I think I know where it's going. Yeah. I'm not doing a good job of of not spoiling our. It's fine. It's fine. It wouldn't be. It wouldn't be me if I were. Yeah. It's fine. It's fine. But is it a past pirate pay for St. Mod? St. Mod is a pay. It's a it's a pay for me too. I would gladly I would gladly put money down for this movie. Yeah. This is a really really fun, really creepy, really well made horror movie. Yeah. Yeah. Very much enjoyed it. Very much enjoyed.[Music] All right. Our last movie today is to 2024's Heretic, which is written and directed by Scott Beck and Brian Woods stars Hugh Grant and it's about these two young women who are Mormon missionaries. They come knocking on the door of the character played by Hugh Grant, Mr. Reed and things go kind of haywire for them. They're trying to you know tell him the good word and turns out he's got his own ideas about the good word. So yeah, this movie this movie starts out the two missionaries. They are sister Paxton who's played by Chloe East and sister Barnes played by Sophie Thatcher. They're sitting on a park bench and the park bench has an advertisement for Magnum Condoms on the back. And they're talking about Magnum Condoms and one of the one of the sisters says she heard that Magnum Condoms are just the same as rent regular condoms. It's just a marketing thing. Yeah. And they start talking about how if people are marketed too correctly, they'll just believe anything and they take kind of the backwards, she takes the kind of backwards message from this where she thinks it's like if someone were told that the book of Mormon weren't real, they would just believe that. Instead of taking it, right, like if you're telling it's real. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And then she starts talking about this this amateur porn movie that she had watched where the actors in the porn movie are interrupted by neighbors and she sees the mortification on the actress' face as this is happening and they start talking about how she realized, you know, it was how how grating and horrible this this thing that she's doing it was. And they just they start talking they start talking about sex in this very naive and euphemistic way like they're like, oh, they were sexing and like they're referring to, they're like, oh, and his pee was this thing and they're using all these catch words as such to show that these these women are really super innocent. But I just thought this scene was really great. Like it's just it does it does the thing that the best introductory scenes and movies do where it just immediately you know who these two characters are, right? Like they're both innocent, but you get the sense that sister Paxton, it was the blonde-haired one, she is like super naive and super innocent and then sister sister Barnes is the darker-haired one, she's a little more world-wise and yeah and you just know who they are right away from this opening scene. I thought it was really really well written and really really really interesting. Yeah. So then they they take their bikes they go up this hill and they knock on Hugh Grant's door and he's like, oh, you know, I would like to hear the word of God does. Let's let's not affect. Yeah, yeah. And they say that they're not allowed to go into his house unless there's a woman present because of safety, you know, but it's also pouring rain. Right. Yeah, it's freezing outside. They're like super cold and getting rained on, but they're like, well, we're not actually allowed to come in and he's like, oh, well, my wife's inside making these blueberry pie. So she'll be happy to hear your word of God also. So why don't you come on in and they're like, yeah, all right, let's do it. So they have this really, another really great scene where the two of them are sitting on this couch across from Hugh Grant and they're trying to talk to him about the word of God and he's being Hugh Grant, right? He's like super likable and being overly friendly to them, but at the same time, it's all a little off. Little extra. Yeah, he's so much. Yeah. Yeah. He's that it's just kind of a little bit creepy. They're getting that vibe too. They're starting to feel it, right? Sister Barnes, the wiser of the two, she's like, so what's the deal with your wife? And he leaves the room to like to go talk to his wife or whatever. And as he leaves, there's a candle that he had put a candle down in front of him. She turns the kick really cool shot where she's turning the candle towards her to see what it says on the label. And like the camera is moving with the with the turning candle. Yeah. And then we it's revealed that the candle is blueberry pie to get the sense that, oh, maybe there is no wife. There's certainly not going to be a blueberry pie. This is some some shit here. So they they try to leave the house, but the door behind them is locked and he tells them that the door is on a timer lock and he can unlock it. So they have to go through the back of the house in order to come. So they kind of find themselves getting pulled further into this this creepy house. Yeah. Against their will, but like this is the only way out. This is the only thing we can do. They try to use their cell phones, but he has talked about how there's metal in the walls. So they're not they're not getting any cell phone reception. Yeah. So they go further in the house and we get another great scene where he starts talking to them about his views of religion. And he does it through two really cool analogies. Yeah. The first one is he's talking about the landlords game, which was the original version of monopoly. Yeah. And I have actually watched a whole documentary on PBS about monopoly. Yeah. I had heard about this also about how it's really good. It's really good. Yeah. So the game was originally conceived of by this woman. Then he's talking about how some dude took her idea, turned it into monopoly, sold it to the parker brothers and he made a bunch of money and they made a bunch of money and she got nothing. Yeah. But he starts talking about how her the original version of landlords game. That's Judaism. And then monopoly is Christianity. And then as you go further and further on down the line, I forget what what Islam was, what the next logical step was. But then he's like, you also get weirdo offshoots and he shows them a version of he's got a box of Bob Ross monopoly. And it's like, this is the weirdo offshoot like your Mormon church. And while this is happening, he puts a record on and he's playing the air that I breathe by the hollies. And he's like, if you ever heard this song and they're like, I don't think so. He's like, no, you have heard this song and he starts talking about how that song was ripped off by radio head to become creep and radio head was sued by the hollies and the hollies that you know, they wind up settling because creep is just basically the same song as the air that I breathe. And then Lana Del Rey came along and she just ripped off creep. And it's just like these are the things where all of these religions where everyone thinks that they have the one true idea, it's really just ripping off everything else that's happening. So he's just making the point that all religion, despite the fact like we were talking about at the beginning where it's just like everybody thinks that they have the one true answer. But your one true answer is it just contains all of these things that have been in existence long before your religion ever even existed, right? Right. Yeah. All of so many of the central storylines and Christianity come from all these pagan religions or Hinduism or all these amalgamation, all these previous things. Yeah. Like every every every religion, every major religion on earth starts with a flood and it's like they all have a birth, verse, fiction, all of the same, all of these same points that just keep getting reiterated over and over again. So that's basically what the movie is, right? Where he has decided a huge grant, Mr. Reed. He's decided that he's going to test these girls faith because how much do you really believe in your one true religion, right? After that, so they wind up going into this basement because they he's tells them the house is on hill and that's the way they can get out of the house. So they're in this basement and he reveals to them a supposed profit and all kinds of all kinds of things are happening. All kinds of things happen, right? Yeah. It turns into a it just turns into a more twisted philosophical discussion on theology just just a downward spiral of this. Yeah. Right. Exactly. So these these two Mormon missionaries, the whole thing of the movie is they're questioning themselves. They're they're how much do they believe in their faith and if they believe in their faith, can it save them, right? Because that's that's the whole thing. They've dedicated their lives to this church and if it's the one true answer, it should provide them with the way to save themselves from this situation, right? And we're just left to decide whether or not it's going to happen. Spoiler warning. Spoilers ahead. Skip to the next chapter or minute marker 56 minutes and 30 seconds to hear the verdict. You have been warned. Hugh Grant is talking through the first part of the movie about how he's going to show them what the one true religion is, right? So the way he does this at first is he brings on a woman and says that she is a profit and she is going to die and be resurrected. Yeah. And she eats this pie that is poisoned and blueberry pie. Yeah. Blueberry pie. So there actually was one. She eats this blueberry pie and something happens where the missionary women get distracted. And when they come back, the woman who is eating this poison pie, they've checked her pulse, they checked her breathing. She was dead. But now she comes back to life. But it's revealed that he just has a whole basement full of these women who kind of look alike. And they're all just there to do his shit. And he reveals that his one true religion is control, right? Like what he wants to do is prove that he is in control. And that's what he wants to show these women. Like God is not in control. He is in control. And whatever he wants to do, he is as powerful as God in this situation because he holds their lives in his hand. And this is what's going to happen, right? But then the movie does kind of a cool thing. So the two missionaries have this at one point, sister Barnes, they pick one of them picks up a letter opener. And it's just like, okay, as soon as I say magic underwear, that's the code word when I say that you stab Mr. Reed in the throat with this with this letter opener. Yeah. And so you're geared up and like, okay, the letter is some shit's going to happen. We're going to do this, right? So he comes down into the basement with them and he's menacing them. And sister Barnes says magic underwear. And just when you think the other what sister packs is going to stab him in the throat, no, he has a knife of his own and he slips. Box cutter. Yeah. That's right. And he slits sister, a sister Barnes is throat. And that's it. And it's like, oh, fuck. So they go through a situation that it looks like sister packs in is going to be dispatched also. And then what is she stabs him in the stomach with the with the letter opener laid on his. No, she stabs him like, I want to say like in the neck. Was it in the neck? I think so. Like, oh, does she get stabbed in the stomach? That would get stabbed in the stomach. Okay. Yeah. With the box cutter like on full thing. Oh, yeah. Okay. So they're both kind of bleeding and dying. And they're having this this final confrontation. And he starts taunting her. Well, yeah, he's bleeding from the throat and he seems like he's about to die, but he is going to kill her before she dies. Right. And he's taunting her about her God, right? And what you what? What is the point of your religion? And the movie does a cool thing where she starts saying the reason the main benefit to her faith is that she gets to think about other people, right? It's everybody who is not religious is only concerned with themselves, but her religion allows her to to care for other people. Prayer, right? Prayer, the power of prayer, even for this guy who's trying to kill her, she is like, I'm going to pray. And that's what she's doing. She talks about the prayer study, right? And how it made no difference. Yeah. Right. It doesn't matter because we are thinking of other people. Yeah. When we're praying. Right. Exactly. And the study says that it's obviously if the sick people who are prayed for do no better than people who are not prayed for because obviously, right? That's obviously true. But it does have this advantage for the person who's doing the praying. Right. And so she starts praying for Mr. Reed as he is about to kill her. And then kind of miraculously six to bars with the slash throat pops up and she kills Mr. Reed. It takes a board with nails and it. There's a board in it. It was one of the many kill bill vibes in this movie because he had the it had there was this water fountain thing where water pours onto this bamboo tube. And as as the gravity of the water comes down, yeah, it like makes this clicking noise. And that was lifted right out of kill bill volume one. And so that's in there too. And then there's a board in the nail in it just like the bride kills the Japanese school girl assassin. And so it's like when as soon as you see this board with the nails coming in, it's like somebody's gonna get fucked up with that thing. And sure enough, before the movie ends, you grand gets that board with the nails right in his head. Yeah. So that's how he dies. And then she's able to escape the house and get you know, use her phone to call for help. And she's able to survive the thing. Yeah. And so I just thought it was really interesting because this movie does such a fantastic job of doing the thing that we both love, which is pointing out how how stupid organized religion is, right? It's just like, right, but but the same time, yeah, the atheist is the bad guy. True. And usually we don't get that. Yeah. You know, usually the religious people are the bad guys in movies because they're so easy to make in a bad guy. Yeah. But I also thought that like this movie is an expert takedown of religion, right? The whole scene with the radio head and the monopoly is a really good job of saying this is why all of these religions are stupid and why they're fraudulent. And it's just a money making operation. And that's just what this, that's what these things are. Yeah. But you're taking it from his, but he's like a sadistic murderer who wants to control people. Right. And at the same time, you get this, you get sister Paxton and she's praying for him and it's just like, I'm going to bunch of religious people in my life, but I've known some, some very, very good people who are religious and the way that they're universally the same is they use their faith as a means of helping them do good for other people, right? Yeah. So I think that the movie does a really good point of like, it's not going to convince me that I'm going to go out and join a religion. I still think religion is stupid, but there are people who get the benefits of religion and the way that they do that is by using it to care about other people, right? Whereas just like, I believe that we are all created by this whatever. And therefore, everyone on earth is my brother or sister, which is humanist. Yeah. Right. But some people only can arrive at that conclusion through religion, right? And I guess if you get there, then you get right exactly. So while I sit, as I said, while I think religion is a very destructive force in our society, there are some people who are good and are good because of their religious beliefs. I would probably say most. I don't, I don't think that. I would say most. You'd say most people who are good are good because of religion. No, I would say most religious people are good. No, I can't go there. Yeah, I can't easily. I know there. But yeah, I think that this movie does a great job of making a strong case both in favor of and against religion. Yeah. And I thought that's kind of a goal size had their licks. They both got their licks in. Exactly. And I thought that was a kind of a cool trick to pull off in a movie that is also just like not preachy at all either, right? It makes all kind of is I don't, I don't really think so. I think the reason it doesn't come off as preachy is because the whole thing of the cat and mouse. Yeah, kind of thing going on, right? It's a fun movie. And it cloaks it in that, but it is a little preachy. I just think it's, it doesn't feel like medicine, I guess is what I'm saying. No, I think that's the magic of it. Yeah, it's a fun movie. It's really watchable. It does a really good job of building tension. So you're on your stage of your seat the whole time that would do. Grant is pretty much awesome in it. Great. Just great. Like really good. What guy? Yeah. And like it's funny because he's not really doing anything other than being who grant, right? Right. Right. He's still got the charm. It's just all that. It's just a movie that found a perfect use for Hugh Grant's Hugh Wattness, right? Yeah. It's just super. Yeah. He's great in this movie. I totally agree. Yeah. He's he's fantastic. Yeah. And it's just, yeah, it's just a really like fun and watchable entertaining movie that's also making really good points. It's cool, right? It gets it's cool to have a movie make philosophical arguments while also being a fun thriller. All right. So is it a past pirate pay on heretic heretic once again is a pay. Oh, it's a pay for me too. Yeah. Do you think Hugh Grant might get an actor nomination for? I would love it, but man, Academy just doesn't generally care for horror movies, right? It's I mean, this is more a thriller, but it doesn't seem like the kind of movie that the Academy would want to recognize. I think he could. I hope so. I think he could see it. I think as far as the performances this year, it's up there. Yeah. I would love to see it. I definitely would. We'll see. We'll see what happens. It's certainly one of the best lead actor performances I've seen this year. I think he's very, very good in it. So like like we said last time, talking about about a Nora, where I think she's a shoe and no. Yeah. But what I'm saying is somebody plays a famous person and just does an impression of that person. They have a great shot of getting an Oscar. I think Timothy Shalamey is going to steal some steal somebody's Oscar this year by doing a Dylan impression. That's what I think. I don't know, man. Sometimes those biopics can misfire. They always misfire. They're never good. That's what I think. Well, but like collectively misfire, not just for Ken. Yes. Like Bohemian Rhapsody is a god awful piece of shit. I thought it was good. But everybody's just like, Oh, that guy looks like Freddie Mercury. I thought it was good. I thought he did good. Yeah. I thought that I was not upset about that. I really know. I, that's one of the worst ones in history as far as I'm concerned. Everything about that movie was teeth. The fat teeth were that we wanted to ask her. Freddie Mercury has a big teeth though. And next week on the show in honor of wicked, the new theatrical release of the Broadway musical, we are doing Oz themed movies. Yes. So we'll be reviewing wicked and we're also going to be doing the Wiz, the Wiz and we're going to be doing Lynch Oz, which I had not heard of, but as a documentary about David Lynch's obsession with the Wizard of Oz. Yes. And I cannot tell you how much I'm looking forward to that one. Yes, because you're a huge David Lynch. So David Lynch. So I'm very excited. Where do you stand on the Wizard of Oz? I really like it. Yeah. I think the original movie is really, really good. Like I think it is deserving of its classic status. All right. Well, we'll get more into that next week. Yes, sir. All right. All right. See you next week. Thanks for tuning in to Pass Pyrite Pay. This episode was produced by the one and only Andy Morris. If you haven't already hit that subscribe button on your favorite podcast app. We'd hate you to miss out on all the fun. Curious about where to stream the movies we talked about? Head on over to PassPyrite.com. You've got everything listed with handy links on where to watch. You can also join the conversation on our Facebook page or stock our cinematic fusing on letterbox links are on the site. Got a movie or a TV show you think we should review? Fill out the contact for more. This is cool. You can even text us right through the episode player on our website's front page. Thanks again for hanging out with us. Until next time, keep watching. Keep rating and keep it Pass Pyrite Pay.[BLANK_AUDIO]