Music Flix

 "On this musical episode of Pass, Pirate, Pay, Ken and Andy jam out with reviews of movies and shows about musicians! From the riotous rock antics of We Are Lady Parts to the gritty Irish hip-hop vibes of Kneecap, and the enigmatic Dylan-inspired A Complete Unknown, they break down the beats, the feels, and the cinematic vibes. Will these stories of sound and soul get a Pass, a Pirate, or a Pay? Tune in to find out!" 

Check us out at www.passpiratepay.com

Chapters

• 0:00 We Are Lady Parts
• 14:44 Kneecap
• 29:50 Kneecap Review
• 30:43 A Complete Unknown
• 49:14 Complete Unknown Review

Transcript

[music]
All right, hello everybody!
And welcome once again to Pass, Pirate Pay, the movie discussion show.
My name is Ken, I'm your host along with my co-host Andy.
Hello there!
Hello Andy, how are you doing?
Pretty good, how are you Ken?
Excellent, excellent, how's your holiday?
Oh, it was fine, it was fine, it was normal, hung out with the family, how was yours?
Yeah, pretty normal, hung out by myself, went to the movies, you know?
Spent a few minutes on the phone with my brother and his family and then kept to myself for most of the day, it was pretty good.
All right, cool!
It was pretty good.
So yeah, we are back after our Christmas break, this will be our last episode of 2024.
Yes.
Today we're going to be covering shows about musicians.
That's right.
So we're going to start with the first season, more or most of the first season of We Are Lady Parts.
And then we're also doing the movie's 2024 movie's Kneecap and a complete unknown.
Yeah.
So we're going to get right into those.
So let's get started, we're going to do the series We Are Lady Parts.
We Are Lady Parts.
Yeah, so Andy, I watched the entire first season of We Are Lady Parts.
Which is surprising.
Yeah.
I really want to give you a TV show, you watch an episode.
Sure.
Two episodes.
Yeah, well these are very short episodes.
Yeah.
It's a really short, they're sick, Tommy.
Yeah, exactly.
24, 25 minutes per episode.
I figure I can knock that right out.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, I got home from work last night and watched the last three episodes of the first season of just, you know, just breezed right through them.
Right on, I have to assume then that you enjoyed it or you would have stopped.
I actually did.
Yeah.
I thought We Are Lady Parts was pretty good.
Yeah, I really did kind of enjoy it.
So just for context, it's a British show about a group of Muslim women, right, living in London.
And they are forming a punk band called Lady Parts.
The show is, it's about Amina.
She's the main character.
She is a very proper Muslim woman.
She's looking for a husband.
She wears the head scarf.
She's doing the whole thing.
And the rest of the band, they're trying to recruit her to be their guitar player.
And she is reluctant to do it because she's got tremendous amount of stage fright.
Yes.
The entire first episode is setting up to the moment when she steps on stage and vomits all over everything.
It's basically just a huge set up to a vomit punch line in the entire first episode of the show.
Yeah.
So the show follows a very formulaic arc where Amina is recruited by this punk band and she gradually becomes more and more comfortable in her own skin.
And aware of how repressed that she's been the whole time.
And then there are dark moments and then the whole thing settles with the band having a triumphant moment.
That's basically how it goes.
Okay.
But yeah, I really did enjoy it.
Amina is played by Anjana Vassan and she's an actress who I had seen for the first time in the movie Wicked Little Letters.
Did you see that?
I didn't.
Yeah, it's really good.
It's a Netflix movie.
It's Olivia Coleman and Jesse Buckley and Anjana Vassan.
They're the three main characters.
It's just a really fun movie.
What is the premise of that?
I think I've heard of it.
It's like, I can't remember when it takes place.
But Jesse Buckley is this wild woman.
And everybody in the town, the small town, they're living in hate her because she's too wild and reckless.
Yeah.
And so somebody starts sending Olivia Coleman who's this very proper woman, these nasty letters.
And so everybody assumes that it's Jesse Buckley who's doing it.
I think I saw the trailer for this.
Yeah.
And Anjana Vassan is a police woman who is trying to investigate the things that's going on.
There's a lot of fun.
And she's really good in that movie.
And I think she's really good on this show too.
Yeah.
And she's a scene in one of the episodes where in order to try to get over her stage fight,
she goes to a poetry reading.
And she admits that the poem that she's written is terrible, but she gets up to read it anyway.
And instead of reading her poem, she just basically has a meltdown on stage.
And they think it's a poetry.
Yeah, exactly.
And she's kind of freaking out, but the way she's doing it, she's like really emotional while she's doing it.
And it's really funny and really sweet at the same time.
I think she does a really good job with it.
Yeah.
And I think the show does a really good job with tone.
Like it's a really goofy show.
It's a sitcom for sure.
Yeah.
It's really goofy, but it's also really earnest.
And I don't know.
Everybody in the show is very likeable.
It's just, it's just, it's very formulaic.
It's a very formulaic show, but it's very, it's fun.
It's a lot of fun.
It is.
I really enjoyed it.
And told from a perspective that we don't normally see.
Yeah, exactly.
I mean, all of the main characters are Muslim women.
And it's just, it's a Muslim women.
It's a Muslim women punk band.
Yeah.
And I like the fact that it didn't shy away from like they smoked weed.
Yeah.
I think it's supposed to smoke weed as a Muslim.
Yeah, I don't think so.
I think any kind of intoxicants are forbidden.
But they were butting up against Muslim rules.
Yep.
The whole time.
Yep.
Yep.
That's like trying to pursue something they loved.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
And the drummer in the band is a lesbian, which is also, you know, taboo for Muslims.
You don't say.
That's right.
The woman drummer is a lesbian, Andy.
It's had to have come as a shock.
No, I mean, not that the woman drummer is a lesbian, but that it was not cool with the
other.
Oh, yes, that Muslims say.
Yeah.
They don't like that.
Turns out they're not a fan of the homosexuality.
But yeah, I mean, like these women are doing things that are not, you know, necessarily
allow or whatever.
Right.
And the show just basically treats it as like, get over it, right?
You know, it's all, these women are who they are in the show just seems to want
to celebrate that rather than rather than being judgmental.
And I think that's, you know, I think that's pretty cool.
There's also, there's a, there's a love story involved that drummers brother is like a
dreamy Muslim man.
And he keeps showing up and they keep having all these awkward encounters.
And I think he's a really good character too.
Like, they have, they have a date at one point.
And I think the date is handled really well because like, she's, Amina is a PhD student.
She's a scientist.
She's working in the lab a lot of the time.
Yeah.
And he is also a postgraduate student.
So like these are two really intelligent people.
And even though a lot of ridiculous things are happening, the show is not afraid of having
intelligent people, having intelligent conversations.
Mm-hmm.
You know, like, there's a lot of things going on where big characters are using big words
to basically hide their emotional vulnerabilities in a way that's really cool.
You know, like, if you think about something like, you know, I love to pick on the big bang theory
because of how shitty it is.
All the big bang theories terrible.
Right.
People love it.
They do.
They absolutely do.
And it makes me feel like people you wouldn't expect my parents like it.
I just, it doesn't make any sense to me.
Yeah.
I know my parents get in the, you know, D and D jokes.
I don't think so.
Right.
The thing is that the big bang theory, it doesn't really care about nerds.
Like, it's just a source of, like, these are awkward people.
So that's just a sort of a comedy trope they can use.
They can't hear it.
Look at these dorky idiots.
But this show, we are lady parts.
It's got really smart people and like, it actually seems to care about them as people and
it doesn't shy away from the fact that they're smart and it doesn't use their smartness
as the punchline.
It's just like another aspect of their character.
And I kind of thought that was really cool and interesting.
Yeah.
The thing that I really liked about the show was that I think the band is actually kind
of good.
Yeah.
And I think they're actually playing.
I think so too.
It kind of seems like it.
Yeah.
Because I'm an expert in this field.
Of course.
Of course.
I've been in bands since high school.
Sure.
Professionally even.
Oh, yeah.
So I can comment on the realistic aspects or unrealistic aspects of them actually playing
with.
Yeah.
And like, they're a proper punk band, right?
So nobody is very good at none of the.
The band members are very good at playing their instruments.
No, it sounds like punk.
Right.
And in that way, I think it's really good, right?
Like at one point, did you get to the episode where they cover nine to five?
Yes.
Yeah.
Like, once they start playing it, I was like, holy shit.
Like, this is a really cool punk version of working nine to five.
And it's like, I thought it was really good.
I was really enjoying it.
You didn't get to the last episode, but the last episode they finish with by playing
We Are the Champions.
I don't know.
And that is not good.
That does not go well at all.
But on the whole, like I really enjoy the music.
Like there are a lot of songs written by the band members about, you know, Muslim woman
experience.
There's one of the songs that they keep playing is Voldemort under my head scarf and
Bashir with the good beer.
Bashir with the good beer.
Yeah.
Like the show is created by by Neeta Munzor who is a Muslim woman.
So it's like this.
This is the great thing about the fact that there are so many different platforms for TV
nowadays.
Is this like we're opening the doors to more experience, right?
We need content, baby.
Yeah.
We got it.
We'll put it on.
Yeah, exactly.
And like, I feel like the best versions of these things are people telling their own
stories.
And it just seems like this is just another one of those.
And I think we had a recent awakening to that.
It's not just that there's a lot of streaming.
Yeah.
I think that the Me Too movement kind of broke open the doors for a lot of other cultures
to get their shit on TV.
Yeah, right.
Right.
Exactly.
Yeah, I mean, if you look at things like like Romney or--
Reservoir Dogs.
Yeah, Reservations Dogs.
Or Fleabag or yeah.
It's just like people who may not have had a voice 10 years ago were just, you know, there's
just like, right.
Let's just put this stuff on TV.
Imagine all the stories we missed.
Yeah.
All the great things that we missed.
Yeah, absolutely.
Because we're just all white.
Yep, white dudes.
What do white dudes have to say?
No, it's like turns out we all have basically the same thing to say.
And we've been saying it forever.
Yeah, we had a great run.
Yeah, no doubt about it.
Let me ask you this.
As a musician, as a guitar player, even.
So the band seems very interested to recruit Amina because she's a super great guitar player.
Yeah.
Like, oh, she's her guitar playing is sick, right?
Yeah.
Uh, did you find her guitar playing to be particularly sick?
No.
Uh, but in the context of British Muslim women, she might have been the cream of the crop.
That could be.
It could be.
You know, there could be maybe this weird underground movement of awesome shredding Muslim
British women, but I doubt it.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's, it's kind of funny because right, this is a punk band and a punk band does not
need a lead guitar player shredding guitar solos.
Uh, but for some reason, they're very interested in recruiting Amina to the band, I guess, because
that's what the show requires.
Yeah, I'm, I'm going to say something controversial.
Fire away.
But I'm not going to say it in a mean way.
I think that in recent years, the guitar has been pushed more on the electric guitar,
uh, has been the guitar in general, actually, has been pushed more on young boys than young
girls.
I think that's a forever occurrence, right?
Yeah.
I think that that's lightning up and it's starting to even out, which is great.
Yeah.
Because now you're seeing some really good female guitarists come up, but not a lot.
Right.
Yeah.
I mean, the thing is like I, as a person, just my personal music tastes like I don't need
virtuosity in my music, especially not in my rock and roll music.
No, in fact, I don't think any of the things we're touching on this episode are about virtuosity.
No, certainly not.
It's about raw emotion.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
And, uh, in that way, I just think it really works, but it's just, it's just really funny to
me that there are, it seems like once in episode, somebody will watch a mean of playing the
guitar.
Like sick.
But she's just like, I mean, like I could be, I'm pretty sure I, I, I took guitar lessons
when I was 14 for a couple of years, but I'm pretty sure I could be playing the solos
that she's playing, uh, without too much, without too much practice, you know what I mean?
Yeah.
Like she's just, she's just noodling around a pentatonic scale for a couple of bars.
Right.
That's the whole thing.
But yeah, I mean, other than the fact that this is is very, very formulaic television, like
it's another one of those things where I, I pretty much knew where the show was going to
be going from the moment it started, right?
You see the, the, I mean, is this very repressed person and you just know that the show is going
to end with her coming out of her shell and the band getting together and being triumphant.
You just knew that that was going to happen.
But apart from that, I mean, I don't really have any gripes with this show.
I thought it was the journey that you take is honest and fun and comical.
Yeah.
Then, yeah, I don't mind if it's formulaic.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I agree.
I don't know if it doesn't, isn't a deal breaker for me.
Yeah.
I agree.
I mean, this show was, was totally watchable, occasionally very funny and like emotionally
satisfying too.
Like I, I was along for the journey with these characters and I thought it was totally,
totally worth a watch.
Uh-huh.
All right.
Can so what are we going to give?
We are lady parts, a past pirate or pay?
All right.
Well, for me, I'm going to say we are lady parts is a pay.
Yeah.
It's a pay for me too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I enjoyed it.
I had heard of it before.
I suggest.
No, I had never heard of it.
I had never heard of it.
Uh, and if you're, if you're listening, I, I found the first episode to be not good.
Uh, and then, but by the second episode, I found it really picked up and was, was much
more interesting.
Uh-huh.
So if you're listening to the show and you decide you want to give it a shot, at least watch
the first two episodes because the first episode, I don't know, you know, pilot syndrome
where it's just like we're throwing all of our ideas into one thing and we don't really
know what it's going to be yet.
I always give a show three episodes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, so yeah, but the, the first episode, not great, but everything after that, absolutely
worth watching.
Just kind of delightful, really.
Right off.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Uh, so our second movie is a 2024's kneecap, which is directed by Rich Pepeat.
And it's a story of two drug dealing hoodlums in Belfast who decide to become a rap group
and they're, they're going to rap in Irish, Galic.
Yeah.
Like mostly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's actually, yeah, it's a mix between English and Irish, but yeah, so and they get tied up in,
I guess, a real life movement in Northern Ireland to have Irish as a recognized official language
in the country.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It says on the screen that in 2022, they had a referendum and it was added.
I think that was real.
That's something that really happened, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And with people, you know, having rallies and things like that trying to get Irish recognized
in Northern Ireland as their language.
And these hoodlums get discovered by a teacher whose girlfriend is very much involved
in this movement.
And he's like, he starts telling them that it's their destiny to bring the Irish language
to the masses, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it's a movie is just basically their story and the teacher and the two hoodlums, they
form themselves a rap group called kneecap.
Yeah.
And I think this is a dramatized version of how the band started, but it's a real band.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
All the, all the, the three main characters are played by the three members of the real life
band.
Yeah.
And yeah, it's, it seems, it seems, it seems like a thing that's really happening and it's
kind of cool.
Yeah.
There's been a few things lately that have looked at the IRA and like a positive light.
Oh, yeah.
I didn't happen for a long time.
Yeah, certainly not.
There's a TV show called "Say Nothing."
Okay.
Great TV show.
I'm saving it for our St. Patrick's Day episode.
All right.
But that and this, both are like, shows that look at the IRA is like a good guy.
Okay.
Yeah.
I mean, it's, it's, this certainly does take the view that, you know, the English in Northern
Ireland are the oppressors, you know, and basically every character that is trying to
stand in the way of anybody speaking the Irish languages is the villain in this movie.
Yeah.
So, yeah, the main villain is this woman police officer, government agent, whatever she is.
And she is just basically out to put a stop to all of the shenanigans that this band is, is
doing.
Yeah.
Not for the least reason that her niece or daughter, I think, I think it's her niece is dating
one of the, one of the hoodlums.
Yeah.
You know, so she's none too happy about that.
But yeah, this movie is told in like a really vibrant, alive, frenetic, cool kind of way,
you know, like whenever the dudes are wrapping with in Irish, the, the, the words in English
are scrolled on the screen.
Right.
It kind of looks like comic book panels, you know, because the words are appearing on the
screen while these guys are, are singing, which makes you get it a little bit more.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Exactly.
It just looks really cool.
And it's filmed in Belfast all throughout Belfast and the cinematographer seems to go to great
lengths to find places where they can film where there's graffiti all over the walls.
So even when there's not writing on the screen, there's like writing on the walls in the
background of everything that's going on.
And it just makes for some really cool looking shots.
Yeah.
And there's also like really fun narrative tricks that this, this movie uses like at one
point, the, the, the, the dudes are getting beaten up by some, by some, uh, faction.
And they're like, we're going to skip that part in the, and they go through like a VHS tape
ref, fast forwarding through, through the beating that's going on.
Um, and at one point, the dudes are taking some drugs and it goes to a claymation kind of
thing happening for, for, for like a minute.
Uh, so it's just, you know, it, this, this movie is all about narrative, inventiveness and,
um, making things look really cool.
And I think, and I just think it, it does a fantastic job of it.
Yeah.
Fast bender is good in it too.
Yeah.
So, so Michael fast bender plays the father of one of the two rappers who faked his own
death because he was a member of the IRA and he was doing some bombings.
A lot, a lot of trouble everyone is looking for.
Yeah.
Exactly.
So in order to escape punishment, he fakes his own death and is just hanging out living
the quiet life and the kid has to go way outside of bell fast in order to go see his dad and
then fast bender, the dad is very key not to speak Irish at all because he's trying to remain
undercover, even though their whole thing is the sanctity of the Irish language.
Yeah.
You know, so then when fast bender finally does decide to speak Irish to his son, it's,
it's very meaningful because that's, uh, that's the thing he's been avoiding the whole
time.
Uh, yeah, he's really good.
I think, you know, for, for non actors, the three main guys in this movie are really great.
Like they did a really good job.
Yeah.
It reminded me a little of a full Monty.
Yeah.
Okay.
Just kind of a mad cap kind of thing.
Yeah.
But I like the fact that that they're trying to preserve the language.
I get the end of the day.
That's what the movie was about.
Yeah.
Right.
Like, so the, the teacher tells the two kids, uh, that the thing he says that it's like the
defining ethos of the movies that the Irish language is like the last dodo behind glass
in a museum.
And what he wants them to do is smash the glass and let the dodo out and be free.
Yeah.
Because at one point we see the teacher in school trying to teach kids how to say stuff
in Irish.
Yeah.
And it's just like textbook stuff that no one would ever say ever on it.
And it's all everybody is bored and nobody is having it.
But once these rappers start to get popular around bell fast, everybody is all of a sudden
interested in learning and learning how to speak Irish, right?
Like at one point someone comes up to them and says something to them in Irish and they're
like, Oh, you speak Irish.
She's like, No, I'm learning because of you.
And it's just like, Yeah, like this is cool.
That's what these guys want to do.
It's just.
Yeah.
It's really, it's really cool.
It's a really interesting thing that I didn't even know about, right?
Like, I think they said, they were, they said the number.
I think it was like 60,000 native Irish speakers in all of Northern Ireland, which is like,
it's like, it's crazy that this language has been all but obliterated because once England
comes in and takes over, they just kind of take over everything, right?
Yeah.
Right.
They almost did take over the whole world.
Yeah.
Right.
Exactly.
And everywhere where they did that, they just imposed English, you and I are speaking English
right now because of that very same reason, right?
And people, the native people of Nevada, I guarantee you, we're not speaking English, but once
the English speakers come in, that's what happens, right?
Everything else gets obliterated.
Right.
Or Canada or Australia.
Yeah.
Everywhere.
Yeah.
It's like, this is just, this is what these people do.
It's what colonizers do, right?
They make their own thing.
So yeah, it was really kind of cool to see the way that the way that they're trying to keep
this whole thing alive, you know?
And yeah, the movie, it was just, it was a lot of fun.
It was a lot of fun.
Yeah.
Yeah, I like the ending.
So this movie is a fucking mess.
It's a glorious mess.
A lot of it is super fun.
I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do that.
It's a lot of fun.
I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do that.
Yeah.
I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do that.
Yeah.
I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do that.
I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do that.
Yeah.
I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do that.
I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do that.
I'm not sure.
I'm not sure.
I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do that.
This mess, a lot of it is super fun and super interesting.
So the teacher is involved with this woman who is an Irish language advocate.
And this relationship makes absolutely no sense.
We can't, we get no sense of why they're together.
And then once she realizes that he's in this rap group, she breaks up with him even though
she tells him how proud she is of those things that he's doing.
And then the kid who's in love or who's in a relationship with the cops, niece, that
relationship makes no sense either.
It just feels like it was tacked on for absolutely no reason.
And so the movie ends where kneecap has this concert and then the cops show up and the three
dudes are trying to escape the cops and the teachers like, this is what this is what I
have to do.
And then he goes and he just gets the shit kicked out of them by cops.
That was funny.
But like, he's like, this is what I have to do.
Why does he have to do it?
We don't know.
He's going to beat the cops.
Right.
But he just gets his ass kicked.
But then the two young kids get arrested and the one kid who's dating the cops daughter,
the cop, she comes in and just starts beating the fuck out of him with a baton.
We have, why is this happening?
I don't know.
And then the other kid who's Michael fast bender's son fast bender shows up and so there's
this, this is group called the radical Republicans against drugs and they are also people who
are supporting Irish language, but they're up theoretically supposed to be against drug use.
So they hit these kneecap kids because they're drug dealers, right?
But then it turns out that they're actually the radical Republican guys are actually drug
dealers.
Yeah.
Who the hell know?
I don't know what's going on, but then they're like, okay, we're going to kill this kid and then
fast bender shows up and he's like, he's my son.
If anybody's going to kill him, I'm going to kill him.
And then fast bender just kills the or shoots all the radical Republican guys in the kneecap
and then turns himself into the wall.
The whole thing just made no sense to me.
I just didn't, I just didn't understand.
It just feels like they had no idea how they were supposed to end this movie.
And it's a, it just seemed like a total fucking mess to me.
I don't know.
Yeah.
Like, it seems like when they set out to make this movie, they're like, okay, we have this
great idea and we have this message that we want to put forth and we want to show what
these guys are doing and why it's great that they're doing it and like, great, okay, what
about a story and like a story?
Don't worry about it.
Let's just start rolling and let's do it.
I'm like, that's what it seems like to me.
It just seems like the narrative of this movie is totally lost.
I think I thought, I thought the end is where.
It got into the point of dramatization, you know, where they're like, we're going to go
off the deep end because it's more fun.
Yeah, right.
I mean, I just, yeah, I think the beginning of the movie is like you said, basically telling
a version of the real life story of how this, this group came to be formed.
Yeah.
And once you're, while you're in reality, then the narrative makes sense.
But then, yeah, like, you're right.
I agree that they're dramatizing it and trying to, and it does go off the deep end, but
like, it just nothing really makes sense.
It just seems like there are plot elements that are there for no reason and are introduced.
I don't even know why.
I guess to flesh out the movie, like these two women characters, the two relationships
that these dudes are in, those women add nothing to the story.
The characters are just furniture, basically, you know what I mean?
I, yeah, I think you need movies to have a little bit of heart.
And when, when there's no women in movies, it tends to not have any heart.
It's all balls.
Yeah, I'm not saying that the movie shouldn't have women.
I just think that they should have done a better, it's like, better job of doing something
with them.
The women are just not fleshed out at all.
They're just not interesting characters.
And the movie just doesn't seem to know what it's doing with them.
Yeah.
I don't know.
Like, when this movie is fun, drugged out, or wrapping, or, you know, it's just, that's
what it was firing on all cylinders.
Yeah, it's really working.
But all the other times, I just, I don't know, I just, I, I, I, it didn't take me out of it.
Like, I didn't even notice that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But they are the non-memorable parts because I did see it when it came out, which was what,
three, four months ago?
Maybe even longer than that.
I would say it was early summer, maybe, so maybe like six months ago.
Okay.
But then, so I've forgotten some of it and all the women stuff you were talking about,
all the stuff I forgot.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's totally non-memorable.
Like, I just, I, I, I don't, I don't even really understand what the hell is happening.
Well, a lot of the time.
I do remember seeing that movie and it being awesome though.
Yeah.
There would be an awesome.
Yeah.
I mean, awesome is a great word to describe this movie, even though I don't love it.
And there's no denying that it's awesome.
Like it's totally unique and like fun.
It's a blast the whole time.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I just, I don't know.
I kind of wish maybe if they gave it a talented screenwriter, a pass at it and or giving
it to a director, I don't know.
I think it's really well directed.
So I know necessarily want to take it out of the director's hands.
I don't know.
I just wish the screenplay had been more fleshed out.
And maybe that would have taken away some of the fun of it.
So I don't know, but I just, I'm watching the movie as it unfolds as the end is happening.
And I'm just like, man, I wish this were better.
That's all I just wish the movie has so much promise and so much good stuff happening in
it that I wish it were a more complete film.
I gotcha.
Yeah.
That's my wish.
But yeah, like you said, awesome to be sure like so much fun.
I will recommend this movie to lots of people and I already have done so, you know, because
nobody has heard of this movie.
It's really funny, you know, yeah, which it shocked me after I saw it.
Yeah.
But I think they are.
I think it's on the short list for Oscar stuff.
Like that would be fantastic.
That would be really cool.
And we really super interesting.
I mean, Michael Fastbender being in it has to be helpful, right?
Because nobody else in this movie is anybody anybody's ever heard of.
I want to say it's going to be in the best foreign film category.
Is that true though?
Because it's mostly in English.
I don't even know how they could do it.
From Ireland.
Yeah, but usually this foreign language, I, I, yeah, I don't know.
That'd be cool.
I mean, any kind of recognition about a foreign language.
Yeah.
That's absolutely true.
Even though it's English heavy.
Yeah.
That would be awesome.
Anything to raise the profile of the movie is something.
It's this movie, yeah, we get in trouble when we do this, but it's on Netflix, right?
You do not know.
I don't know.
Okay.
It'll be on just watch, on our thing.
Yeah, you can find it on.
Yeah, so hopefully wherever it is, it gets some kind of push and, and people get to see
it because it's a movement that I didn't know anything about.
So I was happy to learn about and, and it does, it in a way that doesn't feel like school,
which is cool, you know, which is a lot of fun.
Yeah.
All right, so Ken, I am a little curious to see where you stand on this.
Yeah.
Is it a pass pirate pay for kneecap?
kneecap for me is a pay.
A pay?
Yes.
Even though the ending didn't work.
Even though narratively it doesn't, this movie puts enough on the table that the stuff
that gets taken off the table doesn't ruin the meal.
Great.
Great.
Yeah.
How about you?
I'm sure.
I was in the answer for sure.
I was.
I was much.
Talk to bottom.
I loved it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Lots of fun.
Great job.
And yeah, go Irish language cinema.
And you mean Aaron Goe, braw, Irish cinema?
No, that is not what I meant at all.
All right.
Our final movie today is a complete unknown.
A complete unknown.
A complete unknown.
A complete unknown.
And that is what we're talking about.
A complete unknown.
A complete unknown.
A complete unknown.
A complete unknown.
A complete unknown.
A complete unknown.
We're talking about this movie.
We're talking about this movie.
A complete unknown.
I'm sure.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
I'm sure you're going to love it.
He goes electric at the Newport Folk Festival, which is 1965.
It's basically four years of his life.
It's going in there.
It's going in there.
So yeah, this movie, I was not looking forward to this movie.
You're not a fan of biopics.
Music biopics are generally very bad, I think.
I don't like them at all.
I don't like Ray.
I don't like Walk the Line.
I hated Bohemian Rhapsody.
I like some of those.
All of those movies are the same.
They're just not good.
So I was not looking forward to this, even though, like you said, I love Bob Dylan.
So this movie is one thing that it has going for it that I really appreciate is it feels like it's appropriately
reverential to the music of Bob Dylan.
There are no fewer than what?
A dozen times in this movie where Timothy Shalameh is Bob Dylan just starts playing and singing a song.
And the movie just stops.
And you just watch him singing the song.
And then you cut to the faces of the people who are watching him sing the song.
And everybody's just like, what am I listening to?
Like in a way that I actually found to be really cool.
Because here's the thing, how many people do you know other than me who like listen to Bob Dylan on the reg?
This is just not a thing.
Everybody talks about Bob Dylan.
He's respected as this revolutionary musical figure of a pioneer of folk and rock and roll.
Who actually listens to his music?
I don't know anybody.
There's nobody I can get into conversations with.
Hey, what are you know bringing it all back home?
Isn't that a great album?
I just don't have those conversations.
I don't know anybody who listens to Bob Dylan really.
It just seems to me like, like how many if you went to a random person on the street and asked him to name five Bob Dylan songs?
Most people I don't think could do it.
Everybody would be like, Mr. Tamborine man blown in the wind.
Like a Rolling Stone.
What else? Nothing.
There's one more.
Is there times they are a change in?
I guess I don't even know.
I don't know.
I name a ton, but.
Well, sure, but is that even popular anymore?
I don't even know.
And it's like out in the wild, you know, if you're in the supermarket or in a casino, you don't hear Bob Dylan songs.
Classic rock radio.
I grew up.
My parents both loved listening to that shit.
And Bob Dylan songs are never on there.
Yeah, everybody who's like all of his contemporaries get away with it.
You can get away with like playing like John is in a basement mix and you can get that go go go to a classic rock.
Absolutely.
Or I mean like like a Rolling Stone is a masterpiece.
If you're going to hear one on classic rock radio, it would be that one.
Yeah, I mean, it's obviously a masterpiece.
And but it's not just a great song.
Lyrically, it's just like a really well written song.
It sounds great.
I love like that's the thing I love about like a Rolling Stone.
I just love the way that it sounds.
You know what I mean?
So what some my hope is that this movie does a great bit of business and people are watching it and just be like, oh shit.
Bob Dylan has some great songs like like shit.
I just like there's a scene early on where I'm so does Joan Baez and so does Pete Seager.
Well, sure.
I love them too.
Sure.
Give me a minute.
But yeah, I'm hoping somebody like like there's a scene early on where Dylan is like Newling working out the words to girl from the North country, which is a great song.
Yeah, it's just like and you're just watching it watching it happen is like porn to me, right?
Whereas it's like let's let's get a glimpse of what it's like for Bob Dylan to be recording this this classic song from 1962.
Or in his bedroom writing it.
Yeah, you know, and like it should be noted that Bob Dylan is.
Totally reclusive for the most part or I mean not reclusive. He's out and about but he never wants to talk about his life at all.
And he definitely doesn't want to talk about the inspirations for his songs and none of the things I love about Dylan.
Oh, yeah, Dylan like is a complete humanist.
He doesn't really care much about politics.
Yeah, he doesn't really care much about what's going on in the world.
It's just from the heart is a human being.
Yeah, you know, yeah.
And it's so it's just like this whole movie is based on what other people observed at this time because it's based on it's based on a book call I think the books called Dylan goes electric and it's about this time period, right?
Yeah, but like none of this is coming from Dylan himself.
So none of this all of these stories have to be taken with a grain of salt because we do it who knows how accurate he did sign off on the movie.
But he made sure that they included one completely false thing that never happened.
That's amazing.
And we he wants to say what it is.
That's so funny.
We don't know what it is.
That's so funny.
That's.
He insisted.
That's great.
But yeah, so I'm hopeful that this movie is really popular and like sparks a Bob Dylan musical revival.
I also too.
The theater was full when I saw.
Yeah, me too.
I saw it in a pack theater.
And the guy sitting next to me, I don't know if he's married he was on a date, but he kept turning to the to the woman sitting next to him and singing along in parts of the songs.
But like he didn't know the words.
So it's just like I was like, oh, this dude, what are you doing?
What did you think of Timothy Shalamay's musical performance?
So this is one of the reason why one of the reasons why it was not thrilled about the prospect of seeing this movie because I saw a
piece of an ad for this movie where it's it was just Timothy Shalamay singing.
Our heart rate is going to fall and I was before I saw what it was, I just heard it and I was like, what is this terrible cover of a
hard rain's going to fall and then I looked up and saw it on the TV that it was an ad for the movie and I was like, oh, no, this sounds terrible.
But actually in the context of the movie, I think he.
He doesn't sound.
Exactly. He doesn't sound like Dylan. He sounds like somebody doing a Dylan impression, but I think it's a really credible impression.
Yeah, I was surprised.
Yeah, me too.
I think he was actually playing like a tour of that too.
I think it's really playing a tour.
I think so too.
I think all of the musical performances in this movie, like the woman who plays Joan Baez and Edward Norton playing Pete Seeger.
I think all of those people are actually doing.
He wasn't actually playing the banjo.
Yeah.
Okay.
All right. See, this is what you get when you talk to a musician.
But the rest is.
Yeah, I believe so.
That's, yeah.
I mean, that's cool.
But yeah, Timothy Shalame is not an actor.
I love.
He's not an actor.
I hate, but he's just a person I don't.
I don't really understand his fame.
He seems like he's been anointed as the next big movie star, young movie star.
Yeah.
And it just doesn't.
He's in a lot of movies than I like.
He's in a lot of movies.
He's in a lot of movies, but he's in a lot of movies.
I really like.
But for the most part, I was like, I'm just thinking like, yeah, he's there.
He's the guy.
But in this movie, I think he does a very, very believable deal in impression.
Yeah.
I didn't think so at the beginning of the movie when he first got to New York.
Yeah.
And when he was like coming up in the lounge, they're the, what do you call them?
The little pub scenes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But when he got to that highway 61 version, I was like, holy shit.
Yeah.
Like, there were times where I was just like, I forgot it was Timothy Shalame.
Right.
It's the hair and the makeup and the nose and yeah, it's like, that's really good.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think this is, I mean, this is one of these guaranteed to get nominated for an Oscar for this
movie.
And I, this is the thing about the Oscars that makes me so angry where it's just like any
time somebody does an impression of a famous person that people have an idea of what that
person actually sounds like.
Uh-huh.
And we were like, oh, he's a genius.
Yeah.
I mean, he's doing a better than SNL version of a Bob Dylan impression.
And he's doing, it's one of the best acting performances I've seen from Timothy Shalame.
Yeah.
But I don't, I mean, I just don't think it's necessarily great acting.
I think it's just great impersonating for the most part.
Yeah.
You know, because the whole point of the movie, I mean, the movie is called a complete unknown,
obviously, because of the song lyric, the lyric from like, really, someone, but it also,
because that's, seems to be the point of the movie is that Bob Dylan is an enigma.
And he does this intentionally where it's just like no one can know me.
I just, my songs are my songs.
You don't have to know where they come from to appreciate them.
Yeah.
Just listen to the words.
This is what the song is.
Yeah.
But if you're making a biopic about a person who is inscrutable, you're not really going
to learn a lot.
I think, you know what I mean?
So it's just like, I, I, I don't know.
I just, what do, what do we really get out of this movie?
What kind of new information is there?
I guess a lot of people don't know the story of, of, yeah, I mean, think about it.
Like, we are living in a completely different time than you and I grew up in.
Yeah.
Like, there are people who have no idea they've never heard this music, right?
Yeah.
Especially because you said, not a lot of people listen to it, right?
And it's not played anywhere.
Yeah.
There are people who are coming across us for the first time and I remember when I came across
Dylan for the first time.
Yeah.
And I blew my mind every three or four minutes I put on a new song.
Yeah.
Just blew my mind.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I had the same thing.
Like I bought, I, my mom had on vinyl, uh, Dylan's greatest hits album and I listened to it.
And I listened to it.
And then I was like, Oh, shit.
All right.
And then I just went out and I bought, like some of his albums and, and I bought one and
then I bought four more and then I bought four more.
It was like a shit.
I just want, I want to just absorb everything this guy has to say.
I just like, yeah, I even fell in love with his band.
But yeah, I guess I just, I don't know.
It seems like it's going for all of the usual biopic stuff except you're not really learning
anything about who Bob Dylan is.
You're not learning anything.
I guess.
I mean, you're learning, you're seeing moments that happen in his life.
But you're not gaining any insight into what you are seeing is somebody who sticks to their
guns as an artist.
And this is what Bob Dylan was always about, right?
Who sticks to their guns as an artist in the face of everything.
Yeah, yeah.
Like every, all of his former friends and all of all the people who helped him get to
where he was.
He says, F you to them.
Right.
I've got a thing I'm doing and they ask him not to.
Please don't.
We're trying to be folk artists here.
He's like, F you.
I'm doing it.
Yeah.
Right?
And, you know, they scream Judas Adam, which they mixed a lot of that up.
There was a lot of things mixed up in this movie.
But they did.
It was a dramatization about Dylan's life.
It was not a biographer.
It was not like a documentary.
Yeah.
This movie is not kind to Joan Baez at all, I think.
No, I don't think it's very kind of Dylan.
It makes him look like an asshole.
I don't know.
I think he is an asshole.
I think he is.
I think this movie does a really good job of capturing exactly the specific kind of asshole
it is.
Yeah.
But like, so Joan Baez and his movie.
So my thing that separates me from, from a lot of people, I think is that I think that Dylan
Song should always be sung by Bob Dylan.
Like, I don't, a lot of people think that opposite.
I, yeah, exactly.
I don't think about Tom Litz.
I don't like other versions of Dylan songs and like Joan Baez.
I don't know.
Maybe it's just my personal taste.
It's just like when she's singing, blowing in the wind in this, in this movie, I'm just like,
why the fuck would anybody listen to this?
It's, it's, this sounds, it sounds like garbage to me.
Her voice singing that song is nails on a chalkboard to me.
Like, like at one point, you know, he's like, oh, she's, that's Joan Baez says on stage.
She, that's Joan Baez.
She's real pretty.
She's real pretty too.
Maybe a little too pretty, something like that.
Yeah.
And it's like her voice is way too pretty.
It's like, what are you doing?
You're not an opera singer.
You're singing like, this is, this is like grimy, dirty music.
This is folk music.
What are your voices?
It's not work in this at all.
And I feel totally vindicated by this, even though it's Timothy Shaliman, not Bob Dylan,
singing it.
It's Timothy Shaliman doing a Bob Dylan impression.
And those versions sound way better than anybody else trying to do his songs.
Yeah.
Like, I just, and like Joan Baez at the beginning, when she's first introduced, it's like she's
not doing the things that everybody else is like, oh, why don't you look up at the people
and smile and be more whatever.
And it's the so it's like, oh, she is she a maverick too.
But by the end of the movie, like when Dylan is on stage refusing to sing, blow in in the
wind, she's the one who's like, no, no, no, this is what the people came to see.
Let's sing, blow in in the wind.
And she's just like, she's the one who is tying him to the past.
That Pete Seeger and all those people want him to be sticking to.
Yeah.
And it just seems like she is stodgy and she's kind of a sell out and he's the true maverick
artist.
It just seems like it's very not kind to her.
It seems like she does not come off well in this movie as far as I can tell.
Despite the fact that, you know, Dylan is a total dick to her, the whole movie, dick to
everybody.
Yeah, like all the women in his life are, are, yeah, but yeah, I don't know.
So yeah, the movie also does some very typical biopic stuff where it's just like, especially
music biopics where it's just like songs are being played and the lyrics of the song are
meant to explain the happenings in the movie.
It happens twice with Dylan's girlfriend, Silvi, where he's singing the times they are
changing on the screen and the camera just keeps cutting to her and she's getting sadder
and sadder.
Yeah.
And this is how we're supposed to understand because he's singing the times they are changing.
That means he's done with her.
Right.
Like this is when they break up.
Yeah.
And then later on when he's singing it ain't me being that's when she once again realizes
that he's done with her and she storms off and, and it's away.
It's just like these things are things that happen.
And, um.
Spoiler warning complete unknown spoilers ahead, skip to the next chapter or minute marker
49 minutes and 14 seconds to hear the verdict.
You have been warned.
The movie ends in what feels like a totally hacky biopic kind of way where Dylan goes back
to see Woody Guthrie again.
After going electric, he vanishes and he was like, where Bob go?
And he just goes back to Woody Guthrie in his hospital room.
And he's just listening to Woody Guthrie songs and hanging out with his idol, right?
Where it's just right.
And the song is so long.
Yeah.
It's been good to know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Exactly.
But it's just like it just seems like musical biopics do this all the time where it's just
like, well, in the end, all he really was was just a guy who loved this one inspiration.
And this is what he was doing the whole time.
And it's just like give me a fucking break.
Woody Guthrie I think also there's not a lot for him to do, you know, because he is very
sick.
He has hunting his huntington's career, I think is the disease.
What is that?
I was wondering what that was.
Yeah.
It's a debilitating illness that he had from the moment Dylan.
It can't speak.
Yeah.
But the fact that he can't speak just kind of renders him as a character to be one of these
people who is just like, reverential of Bob Dylan, right?
Because at one point he's talking it or Pete Seeger is in the hospital room.
They're not talking because Woody can't talk.
But Pete's trying to talk about whatever and Woody's just like, Bob, it was just like all
it's because he can't talk.
All he is is a person who sees Bob Dylan's genius, you know, that's what his character is
reduced to.
But like if there was nobody Guthrie, there would be no Bob Dylan.
Oh, sure.
I'm not saying Woody, but we're just talking about the Woody character in the movie.
Having a character who can't talk is very convenient narratively as well, we'll say, you know what
I mean?
But he's played by Scoot McNary.
He was one of my favorite character actors.
He is a good actor.
I've seen him on a ton of stuff.
Yeah.
He's in everything and he's always good.
I know.
I'm happy he keeps getting work, but man, this is a character that is is there for the purposes
of storytelling and not much else.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
So for you, Ken, was a complete unknown, a past pirate or pay?
For me, this movie is, I feel like the definition of a pirate.
Yeah.
This movie feels like a 100% average movie.
Every movie made, half of them are better than this and half of them are worse than this.
This movie is totally okay as far as I can tell, which is better than I thought it was
going to be.
I was expecting to hate it, but it's totally all right.
Absolutely.
However, James Mangold is the king of dad's cinema.
He made things that your pops will love.
It's not going to be offensive.
It's going to, it's just going to, it's going to be a good time and it's going to, what
else has he done?
He did Ford versus Ferrari.
He also did walk the line.
Okay.
I'm not sure what else he's done.
He's going to be a bit, but Johnny Cash was also in this movie.
He played a decent sized role.
Yeah.
And by Joaquin Phoenix couldn't have been brought over from the James Mangold cinematic universe.
No way of anything.
But yeah, like, this movie is totally inoffensive and worthwhile in that it will hopefully introduce
people to Bob Dylan or reintroduce or raise his profile.
It's hard to say.
It's weird to say that a man who won the Nobel Prize for Literature needs his profile to
be raised.
But I don't know.
I just feel like people need to talk more about Bob Dylan.
Maybe that's just me with it.
They do.
I think this might do it.
Yeah.
I think it might do it.
So if you're listening to this right now and you want to talk about Bob Dylan, just find
me.
I will talk to you about Bob Dylan.
That is the thing that I will do.
All right.
I'm a pay on this.
All right.
That's good.
I liked it.
That's good.
I liked it.
It was good.
It was a good music movie.
All right.
Cool.
Hey, everybody.
Next week on the show, we will be doing Vampire movies.
Robert Egger's "Nosferatu," the French film, humanist vampire seeking consenting suicidal
person, and the 2013 Jim Jar mich movie "Only Lovers" left alive.
Hope it doesn't suck.
Thanks for tuning in to "Past Pirate Pay."
This episode was produced by the one and only Andy Morris.
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