Food, Glorious Food!!!

 In this delicious episode, Ken and Andy indulge in the world of food-centric cinema, savoring three mouthwatering films that celebrate the art of cooking. First up is Babette’s Feast, a sumptuous story of gratitude, sacrifice, and a meal that transforms a small Danish village. Next, they serve up Big Night, where two Italian brothers put everything on the line for one unforgettable night of culinary perfection. Finally, they dig into The Taste of Things, a rich and sensuous exploration of love and cuisine. Grab a seat at the table and join us for this cinematic feast—just don’t listen on an empty stomach! 🍽️🎬 

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Transcript

Hello, everybody.
Welcome once again to Pass Pirate Pay, the movie discussion show.
My name is Ken.
I'm your host, alongside my co-host Andy.
Hello.
Andy, how are you doing today?
I'm doing great.
Hope you brought your appetite today.
Oh, I did.
We are going to be doing a trio of movies about chefs, master chefs.
Yeah.
So we're doing that Betz feast, big night, and the taste of things.
Yes.
A few of these, the theme actually was conceived by one of our listeners.
Yes, Jared.
Jared, hello.
Jared wanted us to do-- he wanted to see Chef in here, though, but I want to save that for another time.
Yeah, never seen Chef, so I can say pretty good choices.
Anyway, we'll see what we actually think about them in the minutes to come.
Yeah.
Yes.
You texted me during one of these movies talking about how hungry you were and I feel the same
way.
These movies are very food forward.
They are.
They are.
Let's dig in.
Okay.
So we're going to get started.
We're going to go back to 1987 for Betz feast.
This is directed by Gabrielle Axel.
This movie is Danish.
I wasn't sure if it was Danish or French.
Yeah, it's-- I'm actually not sure.
I think it's made by a French person, but most of the dialogue is in Danish.
Right.
So I'm not sure exactly what country it was made in.
But language-- linguistically, it is Danish.
Okay.
It takes place in the 19th century sometime.
Yeah, I want to say early.
Yeah, I'm not sure.
I'm not up on my European history, but it's about a woman who's a French refugee who
flees to Denmark.
It's not the French Revolution.
It's not that early.
No, I'm not sure what it was.
I didn't look at the history of it or anything.
Not sure.
Anyway, the movie is about these two old women who are the daughters of the leader of this
weird religious sect in this small Danish community that most people in town seem to be
a member of this sect in there.
Yeah, light cult.
Yeah.
It's not super culty.
We're not red-stating here.
No, you know.
But yeah, it seems to very religious people.
So they take Babette in.
Each of these women are spinsters and they have loves from their past and the two loves
come back at the end of the movie, one of whom sends Babette to the women.
And the other one is the main impetus for the feast that is the title of the movie.
So the movie starts out when the women are younger and we see the two brushes with love that
they have.
And the tone is set right away by this narration.
We never see who the narrator is.
It's narrated by a woman.
But the tone of the narration is kind of, it seems really light, like really lighthearted.
And the movie is pretty goofy, I would say, from the get-go.
One of the women, her love interest is this military man and he is very formal, but at the
same time he's like kind of a buffoon.
He can't, he's burping all the time and he's constantly standing in attention and clicking
his heels together, but he seems extraordinarily ridiculous.
And the other woman falls in love with this opera singer and he is dressed like a straight
up clown.
He's got humongous top hat on most of the time and he's wearing an ass-cott and he just
gives these poofy sleeves.
People generally look ridiculous.
But they're the most formal people that there are.
So it seems to me that the movie was setting the tone right away to be like, formality is
dumb, right?
Like, this is a very homey kind of movie.
And everybody who is not in on this homey vibe doesn't seem like they're-
They fit in.
Yeah.
And the movie seems like it's just like it's saying, hey, look how ridiculous these people are
in a way that I found it was kind of amusing.
But yeah, so the main plot of the movie and where we get our title is, "Babbette," who
is the French cook fleeing from France.
Her only connection to her home country is this lottery that she is entering in every
week.
And when she wins the lottery, she wins 10,000 francs, which seems to be like a lot of money.
And she's like, well, now that I have all this money, I'm going to repay these- the kindness
that this village has shown me and I'm going to have the greatest feast that anybody's
ever seen.
And that's what we do.
So she wants to cook for everybody in town, but they're all in this weird religious semi-cult.
So everybody is like, there's like- there's one scene where it's like a nightmare hallucination
that the cult members are having.
Right.
And she says, I really want to thank you, you saved my life.
And I really want to thank you.
So I'm going to cook you this big dinner.
And she goes, and I need to get all the ingredients.
So she parades the ingredients into town and everybody's blowing their minds like, what is
this?
Right.
And that's when they have the nightmares with all the ingredients in the nightmare.
Right.
The nightmare sequence is like, "Babbette is a witch blowing up this devil's cauldron
of who knows what?"
But then the reality is also insane.
Like, at one point, we're watching "Babbette in the Kitchen" and the camera just pans over
to this like enormous sea turtle.
She's living like a live turtle that she's going to be turning into turtle soup for the
end of the movie.
But yeah, so all of the religious people, they're all, they make a solemn vow.
Like we're going to turn off our taste buds and no matter what she cooks us, we're
just going to politely eat it and we're not going to enjoy ourselves.
But I don't say a word about it.
Yeah, nothing.
They're just, you know, this, I guess this is just one of those weird things that religious
people do, right?
Where it's just-
Yeah.
And look, it's, I think it's like religious people are like, if it's anything like that brings
you pleasure, then it's not good.
Right, right.
Exactly.
Exactly.
But somehow being a good Christian means that this woman who is spending an extraordinary
amount of her own money to create this meal just to give you pleasure, it's the Christian
thing to do is to not enjoy ourselves in any way or let her know that she's doing something
wonderful before.
Right?
That's just, you know, that's just the way that these people are.
But so our old friend, the military man, he gets an invite to this, to this affair and
he's now a general is a very respected man.
Yeah.
And he kind of throws a monkey wrench in these cultists plan because this guy loves some
food.
And you know, the movie is doing a lot of shots of the keep showing the general eating his
food and he is could not be more delighted by anything that's going on.
Yeah, he is, he's absolutely stoked.
Yeah.
And while this is happening, all of the townspeople are trying to do their thing where they're
super stoic and not enjoying themselves.
Yeah.
But then gradually they just like are overcome.
Yeah.
The meal is too decadent and glorious and they can't help themselves.
Yeah, which I think is like the mountaintop of the movie.
Yeah.
Like them like the meal changing their minds, you know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
These like people who are so like died in the wool, purest, anti pleasure.
Right.
And it was really cool watching them not fight anymore.
Yeah.
You know, not bicker anymore.
Yeah.
And just start like just be in the state of euphoria.
Yeah.
It seems like they talk about like spiritual appetite versus physical appetite and like the
world to come the heaven that awaits these people versus the world that we're currently
in.
Uh-huh.
And eventually what happens is that Bet's feast is so delicious that the lines between
those things are blurred.
Right.
And then it comes no difference between spiritual satisfaction and physical satisfaction.
Yeah.
Singing songs.
Yeah.
Everybody got all the wrong.
They're all too wrong.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's, uh, yeah.
It's, it's really good.
It's, I mean, it's really fun.
It's like, I'm, I'm kind of with you, right?
The movie was winning me over as it was winning the people over.
Yeah.
Like as the people are enjoying themselves more and more.
I'm just, I'm enjoying myself more, myself more and more watching it.
Yeah.
I thought it was, and the food stuff was really good in it.
Yeah.
And I just realized it like, God damn, the French were so ahead of everybody else.
Yeah.
As far as cuisine went.
Yeah.
You know, maybe French and Italians, but everybody else was just eating, did you see what
they were eating before, Bet got there?
Bread, soup.
Yeah.
That's a huge thing, right?
Like, yeah, she, they're, they're making literally bread soup.
They're just softening bread in hot water.
Right.
And that's the dinner.
Yeah.
And there's, and there's also like, uh, there's, they're fish hanging out and people
are like, well, it's not very fresh.
I'm like, oh, it's all right.
We can, we can use it anyway.
And like, they're, they're eating bacon and it's like, well, it's rancid, but it doesn't,
like, it doesn't really matter.
It's like the Danish food seems so disgusting.
Yeah.
And, yeah.
And like most European food, except for French and Italian.
Yeah.
And those cooking styles have been adopted by everything else.
Right.
Everything else uses those cooking styles.
Right.
Well, I mean, that's the, that's the colonization, right?
When the French take over the world, they take over.
They bring their cooking skills.
There's still good ideas and, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Better ideas than what was there.
Right.
Yeah.
Right.
It's fun.
And this was a, this was a really fun movie.
I thought I, I, I did not, I did not expect it to be as fun as it was.
And I had a really good time watching it.
I thought it was, yeah, it was, lightly paced and just, it just carries you along with the,
with the mood of the movie.
Uh-huh.
And then the, the end of the movie is, is the spoiler territory?
I'm not really, is this, I mean, it's not really a spoilable movie.
Okay.
Right.
I, I don't think so.
It's just, so the end of the movie is, that bad is revealed to be this great artist, right?
She had been a chef at some really fancy, French restaurant, yeah, fancy French restaurant,
yeah, in Paris.
And at some point she, you know, she, she says to the two old women, she's like, this
wasn't just for your sake.
This was for my sake, because she is an artist, right?
I think, and, and this is a theme that we're going to talk about in all three of these
movies, where it's just like a,
a chef is an artist.
It's a person who is, this cooking is an art form.
And the way that, by that can feel like herself again, because, you know, she's living as
this, these two women's, she was a famous French chef.
And now she's living as these two old women in Denmark's cook.
And she just doesn't get to feel alive.
So the way she feels alive is by creating this massive meal and winning over these, these
people.
And so like, the art of making the food is the way that she expresses herself, but also
the way that she, like, fulfills her life's purpose, it seems like, you know, it seems like
that's what we're getting at.
So I was wondering, you are an excellent cook.
Oh, thank you, Ken.
Oh, I mean, this is not news, everybody here.
You're an excellent cook.
And you are very much inclined to create feasts for large groups of people.
Yeah.
I'm wondering if this movie resonated for you in that way, where it's just like, do you
get any kind of the feeling that she got from, from creating the meals that you create?
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah, absolutely.
I've said it before.
It's a love language.
Yeah.
That's how you express love and joy to people that are close to you.
Yeah.
A long time ago, and I pulled it up a long time ago, a Facebook friend of mine.
It was right after Anthony Bourdain died.
Okay.
And a Facebook friend of mine put a post up, and I want to read it.
All right.
Because when we were doing this episode, when I was watching these movies, his name is Matt
Kendall, is a friend of mine.
He said, I feel like when someone makes food for someone else, that it's not a mundane activity
that's just part of the day.
I literally think of it as an act of love because you are working with limited and expensive
resources to literally sustain the life of another person.
If a person doesn't eat, they will eventually die.
A cook, chef, grandma, aunt, mom, dad in the kitchen is working to prolong your life.
Maybe the ease of which we can attain food makes us all take this for granted, but at least
on a symbolic level, people in the kitchen are making you live.
Cooking for another person should be considered a sacred act, and the people who do it should
be treated with the appropriate reverence.
So I think it's a good day to thank everyone who spends time in the kitchen to make other
people's lives more delightful.
Nice.
And I think that he really encompassed everything.
Yeah.
Like all three of these movies feel this way.
Right.
For sure.
Well, I hope that you know that we all feel that way about you.
No, we certainly do.
I appreciate the wonderful efforts that you put into it for the meals that you create for
us every week.
Yeah, it's fun.
I love cooking.
When you're cooking, your mind is only on that and everything else is in the wind.
And it's just a good way to just decompress.
I love cooking.
Yeah.
That's cool.
That's really cool.
Spoiler warning.
Her bets feast spoilers ahead.
Skip to the next chapter or minute marker 15 minutes and 17 seconds to hear the verdict.
You have been warned after the feast is over and everybody's congratulating by bet done
on what she's done.
She reveals that she has spent her entire lottery winnings on importing all of the ingredients
and that she's not leaving.
Yeah.
She's sticking around.
She's going to still be these these women's servants.
She's standing in this Danish village.
She just she spent everything she had just to do this one thing and the great thing it's
never explicitly said, but the movie leaves no doubt that that bet and everyone else feels
like it's worth it, right?
Yeah.
This is this was not a waste of her money.
This was money well spent for her.
She got to do this thing that she enjoyed doing and everybody in spite of themselves wound
up wound up really enjoying it.
Yeah.
I don't know who he is, but he was not invited to the feast.
So he's just hanging out in the kitchen with that bet.
Well, he's cooking, but he's getting to taste everything.
Yeah.
And boy, this guy is really enjoying himself too, right?
There's also a great shot of one of the one of the old women in the congregation.
It's after she's already started really enjoying her meal, right?
And she she she takes a big bite of something and she eats it and she swallows it and then
she goes and she grabs a glass of water and she takes a sip of the water and then she's
like, you get this look on her face like, nope, that's not going to do it.
And then she puts the water down, picks up a glass of wine and takes a big, quick of the wine.
And he's just like, you know what, fuck this.
Let's live with that.
Yeah.
All right.
So Ken, for Babette's Feast is it a past pirate pay for you?
For me, Babette's Feast is a pay.
So pay for me too.
Yeah.
It was really good.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Our second movie today is 1996's Big Night.
Uh-huh.
It's directed by Stanley Tucci and Campbell Scott.
Yes.
Starring Stanley Tucci and Tony Shaloub as secondo and primo, two brothers, immigrants from
Italy.
Uh-huh.
Uh, they have a failing restaurant.
Where that Rhode Island New Jersey?
I don't know.
I don't think they say.
They say it's the East Coast, but I don't think they say exactly where it is.
Feels like 1950s Long Island.
Yeah.
It seems like it could easily be Long Island.
Or New Jersey.
Or New Jersey.
Sounds like I don't know.
I have no idea.
They're all Italian.
Well, not all of them, I guess.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because all of the non-immigrants in the movie, they just sound like, I don't know, middle
American people, right?
Like, like, many drivers.
She's, I mean, she's, oh, and also before we get into this.
Yeah.
Don't you have a history with many driver?
Yeah.
I guess we could tell the story one night.
I was inebriated and I was watching Goodwill Hunting.
Uh-huh.
And I was struck by how amazing Mini Driver is in that movie.
And I, and I got on the Twitter and I tweeted out as such.
I said something along the lines of Goodwill Hunting is an incredible movie, but Mini Driver
is at a whole other level or something like that.
And did you tag Mini Driver?
I did.
I did.
I did tag to write on there.
Yeah.
Oh, uh, wake up and open up my Twitter account and there she is.
I actually had responded to me.
Wow.
Saying, oh, thank you very much.
That's so nice or something like that.
You didn't send her $10,000.
I did.
I did not.
I did not.
But I mean, that is one of the highlights of my life.
I got Mini Driver to, uh, and it was really her, huh?
I mean, unless somebody was using her account, unless the, at real Mini Driver or whatever
the hell it was, actual Mini Driver account, right?
Well, there are fake people who use it, but didn't have the check mark.
Did everything?
Yeah, I mean, this was legitimate.
Years, this was 10 years ago.
So I think it was, the check mark was more legitimate back then.
So I'm pretty sure that it was her.
Yeah.
So, and that, I mean, goes right into one of the things I have to say about this movie,
which is, it's possible that there has never been a woman captured on film that is more
beautiful than Mini Driver in this movie.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
My fan, huh?
I mean, she is unbelievable.
She is really pretty.
She looks unreal.
And this is 96.
96, yeah.
Just, she's just, she looks so beautiful and she's so good in this movie, but I, I don't understand
why her career wasn't better.
Like, why did she, what, after like this and gross point blank and goodwill hunting, she
basically vanished, right?
Like, she doesn't, she's never, she was never the star of anything ever again, really.
You know, like, she was on some TV shows or something.
Yeah, maybe.
But I think she's amazing.
I think she's, she was a tremendous actor and, and just so beautiful and, and just great.
Is she British?
Yeah, she's British.
This cast was really good.
Amazing.
I love all of you.
Did you notice, you notice we have Shriver?
I did and I didn't when I first watched it a long time ago.
Yeah, because probably because he wasn't very famous.
Right.
And he has no lines.
Is it you?
Does he?
Yeah, I didn't know this couple.
I did not know.
Stanley Tutti asked him and goes, is he here?
He goes, yeah, he's inside.
Oh, yeah, that's right.
Yeah, that's right.
That's about it.
He's a door man at, at, at Ian Holmes restaurant.
That had to have been one of his very first holes.
He has to be.
Yeah, he's not doing much, but he's just standing there looking like we have Shriver.
Stack that cast was.
Even the bit players restores.
Yeah, I mean, the, the acting in this movie is for the most part, just absolutely
top notch, right?
Yeah, it's got one of my favorite actresses on earth, which is Allison Janie.
And Tony Shilu, I think, is the best actor in this movie.
I think he's doing the best work.
Yeah.
And in anything Tony Shilu, obviously, but particularly in this movie, all of his scenes with
Allison Janie are so good.
Yeah.
He's so funny because he's, he's got this huge crush on her.
Yeah.
And he's very awkward and trying to be charming and like, and just at the same time, he's
so nervous around her.
It's so sweet and others, they're scenes together.
They're just so good.
Yeah.
The first scene where they're together, where they're in her flower shop and he like crawls
into her flower case.
They're picking up flowers and he just crawls, walks right into his pocket flower case like
crams and so forth.
It's so funny. He's so good throughout this movie.
Ian Home, who is one of my all time favorites.
He's really good enough.
He plays Pascal, who is, who is the owner of the competing Italian restaurant.
And he's so good.
He's being very big and boisterous.
He's so huge.
His performance is so big, but it's so good and so funny.
Like he keeps every time he sees Stanley Tucci, he goes and like tries to bite him on the
ass.
He's fucking gagged.
Like during during the climactic dinner scene, you know, where they were.
Primo, he makes this Timpano.
Yeah, speaking of to have you ever had a Timpano?
I believe I have.
Oh really?
Where'd you have that?
I had it at your whole main by you.
I was inspired by Big Night when I first saw it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And what was really funny was like I saw Big Night a long time ago.
And then when we started doing poker dinners, I said, I'm gonna make a Timpano like they
did on Big Night.
Yeah.
And remember when they're sitting around, they take off the pot.
Yep.
And they're looking at it like tapping it and they're like, yep, they're like, do we wait?
Do we cut it?
Yeah.
I was thinking the same exact thing with mine.
It's so fun.
I was like, oh no, it's going to spill all over the place.
Yeah.
I love that shit where they're tapping it.
Yeah.
It's like, what are you telling?
What are you getting out of this tapping?
I have no idea.
But yeah, so during that scene where the Timpano is revealed and everybody is eating it.
So when we did our complete unknown episode, we talked about how there are so many scenes
of people just standing around watching Dylan with their mouths of game.
Yeah, yeah.
This is the same thing.
Actually, all these movies have this where yeah, it's the Dylan face, right?
Where these people are eating and they're just like, what the fuck?
How is this so amazing?
It's so good.
So they all taste the Timpano and then Ian home like yells and everybody stops and they're
all looking at him and he stands up and he starts walking over to Tony Shaloube like
menacingly and he's just like, I should kill you.
This is so fucking good.
I should kill you.
Like, it's so great.
It's so great.
Yeah, I, I, oh man.
Yeah, Ian home is so funny in this movie and so good.
Yeah, everybody's just really good.
It's just a really well.
It is.
Everybody's doing such a good job.
Yeah.
Yep.
Yep.
And the food stuff is really cool too, the suckling pig and yeah, like all that stuff, man.
And they all know what they're doing too.
Yeah.
Which especially Stanley Tucci, but isn't he like a Italian food like master?
Yeah, I think he like he has a show on TV about Italian food.
Yeah.
Yeah, he's definitely an expert.
And you know, I don't speak Italian, but it seems like he and Tony Shaloube,
are doing a fairly reasonable Italian accent when they speak, you know, they're when they're
speaking.
Accent and speaking in Italian.
Yeah, I mean, it doesn't sound like I didn't know where it because Tony Shaloube played
so many different ethnicities.
Yeah.
And I didn't know what ethnicity he was.
I assume he's, I thought he was Middle Eastern.
He's Lebanese.
Yeah, that would have been.
Yeah, I don't think.
I think Green Bay or something.
It's so weird because he's, he's such a chameleonian.
But he's played a Jew.
He's played an Italian.
He's played Middle Eastern characters.
Yeah.
So one thing I thought was really funny looking at it from the lens of now because Tony Shaloube
is on or was on when it was on the Marvelous Mrs. Maisel.
And the very early scene in the movie is two people dining at their restaurant and this
old couple and the woman is, she orders risotto and she's trying to get spaghetti and meatballs
as a side dish in the zone.
Was that his wife?
No.
That was the other wife that was, that was, it was Joel, Joel's mother, Kevin Pollock's
wife.
And on the Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, like Tony Shaloube character, but she was a lot younger.
But I recognize it.
So on the show, Tony Shaloube's character basically spends all of his time being annoyed
by this woman and a cup and in this woman, that's the same thing.
He's just like, he's not.
I love that scene at the beginning.
It's so good.
Yeah, he serves the risotto and then Stanley Tucci is waiting on them and he goes in the back
and asks for a bowl of spaghetti and meatballs.
And Tony Shaloube's just like, she's a criminal.
Let me talk to her.
That's a too much stoch.
She won my potato too.
No, she's a criminal.
She's a finestine.
I'm not talk to her.
Yeah, he's so dismissive of every, he's the artist like you were talking about where his
standards are so high and he just refuses.
And one of the great things that the movie does is the movie starts in their restaurant
and there's one couple there and there's dead.
There's nothing going on.
And then Stanley Tucci goes over to the competing restaurant to Pascal's and it's
just lively.
There's music going and the restaurant is packed and the first thing they show is a big
plate of spaghetti and meatballs.
Yeah, it's just like is this is what the movie is constantly talking about the distance,
the difference between giving people what they want and giving people what they should
want, right?
Yeah, like Tony Shaloube knows what good food is and he refuses to compromise.
Right.
And Ian Holm doesn't give a fuck and he just wants to get people in the door and he'll
do whatever he can to do it.
And that's what he does and Stanley Tucci is just in the middle, right?
Like it seems like he, his, his, uh, seco, his character just wants to, he thinks of himself
as an artist like his brother, right?
But at the same time, he wants all of the things that Pascal has.
Right.
And he is running a business.
Right.
Like the brother isn't concerned with any of the business stuff.
Yeah, exactly.
He's only concerned about creativity.
Yeah, exactly.
And he's seen right after, right after seco comes back from Pascal's restaurant, uh, he
goes back to his own restaurant and, and primo and this painter guy who was like their only
customer, but who never pays, uh, sitting in there and the painter is paying Tony Shaloube
for the food with a painting.
Yeah.
And he's like, I wish I could give you some money and primo responses.
Ah, what would I do with money?
Meanwhile, his, his brother is like, is at the bank.
The bank is telling them they're going to be foreclosed on.
Yeah, it's just like the thing I, the thing I really like about this movie is that it seems
really non-judgmental, right?
It's there's no, nobody is all good or all bad, right?
Right.
Like seco is an asshole.
He's cheating on his girlfriend.
Many drivers is girlfriend and he's cheating on her with Pascal's wife, right?
But we're still rooting for him, you know, like we still like him.
And his brother is this complete asshole uncompromising artist.
Yeah.
But then we have this great dinner scene where everybody's enjoying his food and it's
just like, well, fuck, maybe this is worth it.
Maybe it's, maybe it's reasonable to be like this guy, you know, because after the dinner
is over, nobody is complimenting, nobody cares.
So the, the dinner is supposed to be for Louis Prima, right?
He's supposed to show up and he never, yeah, is going to call him, right?
Because they're friends to come to the restaurant, right?
But this whole thing was just Pascal setting him up to fail, right?
So he could, he wants seco to come work for him and his restaurant.
Yeah.
Psycho and Prima.
He wants a bowl.
Yeah, exactly.
But at the end, nobody who was there is really concerned that Louis Prima never showed up.
All anybody wants to do is congratulate Prima on what a great meal he has made, right?
And it's just like, well, shit, what are we doing?
But then like, once it's revealed that Pascal never invited Louis Prima, you're supposed
to think that like, oh, shit, maybe this guy is the bad, you know, this guy's a real thick
too.
He's, he's the real bad guy of the movie.
But then he has this great scene with seco where he's just like, I'm a businessman.
What are you?
Like what are you?
Yeah, your brothers and artists and I'm this businessman and what exactly are you?
What do you do?
What do you bring to the party?
You know, it's like, seco seems to want to have it both.
It's like the karate kid, right?
Either you, either you karate do yes or you karate do no, you can't go in the middle.
You got to have a terrible, which is really terrible.
Like either, either give these, these fat American idiot pigs what they want or be true
to your art, you know?
Yeah, it's a, it's, it's a real shame.
But like, I really enjoy the fact that the movie doesn't seem to come down on either side
as to who's right or who's wrong, right?
Like is Primo right or is Pascal right?
Who's right?
Like if Primo is this great artist and he's making all these people happy, but his restaurant
is also out of business.
He can't sustain the thing that he's doing.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah, I don't know.
I, I thought it was really interesting.
I think it's, it's a really interesting movie.
The first time I saw this movie, I didn't like it at all.
Oh, really?
I, I saw it when I was in college.
I saw my freshman year of college and a friend of mine, um, she showed it to me.
And when it ended, I was like, what the fuck was that?
I just, I don't know what was wrong with me.
I just, I, I was expecting, like crazy.
It's not, it's, it's like how your palette changes over time.
Right.
You, there are foods that you hated when you were a kid that you love now.
Yeah.
I just, I wasn't the way the movie ends.
It's just, it ends on such a, like, I don't know.
Antichlomactic is not the right word.
I actually thought it was a perfect anything.
I agree.
I think it's fantastic.
But at the time when I first saw it, you know, 25 years ago, I just wasn't ready for it.
I just didn't understand that you could make a movie that way.
I hadn't seen enough movies or thought, right?
Right.
Enough about movies to, you know, you know, you know, a movie did that for me.
Same thing happened to me.
Days in confused.
Oh, yeah.
I saw days in confused in high school.
Yeah.
And I'm like, this is lame.
It's just like a night of us hanging out.
This is lame.
Yeah.
I, you know, fast forward 20 years.
And I watch it and I go, this is a perfect movie.
It's just like a night of us when we hung out.
Like I loved it for the same reasons I hated it.
But when you're in it, it didn't make any sense to make a movie about it.
Yeah.
But when you're away from it, it all worked.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, the end, the, the very end of this movie is, like you said, about the cooking.
It's, it's so, it's such a cool way to end the movie, I think, where it's just one
long shot where Seco comes back into the kitchen and the, the, the fauna, I think he's his name,
Mark Anthony character.
It's the morning after the big night.
And nobody's been to sleep yet.
And it's just like, all right, well, we want some breakfast.
Let's make some breakfast and we just watch Stanley Tucci make eggs.
We just watch him make some scrambled eggs.
And eventually Primo comes in and the three of them are just there and they're just eating
breakfast.
And then he, the entire meal of eggs made from opening the, opening the shells into the
pan onto the plates and then them eating it all one shot.
I think it's, and, and, and I think it's so cool and such a perfect, like, like you said,
perfect ending.
It's just low heat.
And I had forgotten about it.
Yeah.
I forgot how it ended and I was like, how do they end this?
Like when they had the big fight on the beach.
Yeah.
And they, you know, they were absolutely pissy.
Yeah.
And then the next day, it's like, man, never happened.
Right.
Yep, exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Their relationship makes so much sense to me as brothers, you know, and it's just, it's, it's
it was really good.
And that's a thing that I think might get overlooked in this movie, but it is a perfect portrayal.
Yeah.
Of a brother relationship.
Yeah.
You know, the way they talk to each other, the Frank and like honest and harsh way they talk
to each other.
You don't talk like that with anyone else.
You know, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
There were a couple of, there's a couple of weird things in this movie.
Like, I don't know that I've ever seen another movie directed by Stanley Tucci and some of
the choices he made.
Like, there's one scene where he's driving by Pascal's restaurant and there's a cook running
out of the building on fire.
And they're throwing him out like, yeah, him on fire.
Yeah.
Like, Pascal and we have Shriver are chasing this cook out of the restaurant and the
guys pants are flaming and it's done in slow motion and that that was weird.
It's weird and it's never explained.
Never.
Do you think they do that to show that this guy is really like kind of a piece of shit underneath
it all?
Yeah.
I guess it could be.
I guess it could be.
That's a real hard way to do it though.
You could probably use a lighter touch than lighting a chef on fire.
It's really weird.
Really, really weird.
There's another scene where Seco and Pascal are talking in Pascal's office and there's
this lamp in between them.
At first, every time you see Seco's face, there's a lamp is like cutting across the center of
his face.
And then at one point, Pascal's like, slams the lamp down and then the lamp is in the middle
of his face for the rest of his scene.
I was like, why are you doing this is really strange.
There's got some sort of message there.
Yeah.
And I don't understand it.
I'm like, this is going to be a bunch of times and I just can't every time I watch it,
I'm like, what is going on in this scene?
Why are you doing this?
And the one scene that's really weird even though I really like it is the scene where Seco
goes to the Cadillac dealership and he meets this really fucking weird car salesman.
This guy is like, he's just so strange.
Guys like, he's like, oh, you're from Italy?
Beautiful country.
You ever been there?
No, never.
And he's got this cast on his hand.
He's like, oh, your hand.
He's like, yeah, hurt my hand.
How'd you hurt it?
I remember.
Oh, you have a brother?
Yeah, I have a brother.
I hate him.
What is this guy?
It's so strange.
Yeah.
So yeah, there's a lot of like, there's a few like weird stylistic touches that I just don't
get in this movie, but, you know, this minor stuff is mostly, mostly incredible.
Yeah.
Yeah, I thought it was mostly incredible.
I really like the music.
There's like, it's a lot of Italian music, right?
Yeah.
It's like, well, yeah, the soundtrack is mostly Louis Prima.
I think there's a score.
I can't really tell.
Is it a guitar or is it some other string instrument?
I can't really, I don't know.
Zither or something, but it's like every time we're transitioning from scene to scene, it's
this very Italian sounding guitar, mandolin, right?
Probably a mandolin, right?
It could be a mandolin, yeah.
A lot of mandolin and Italian stuff.
Yeah, but it's really cool because it's a really low key movie on the whole.
And the score is very much non-intrusive and just keeps things moving along in that
way.
So it's really good.
Yeah, one of my, this is another, like another thing where the feast where it's just like,
this movie is just people enjoying food.
And there's a great cut where they're all eating dessert and everybody's having a great
time.
And then the camera abruptly cuts to this woman, one of the diners and she's just sobbing.
And they're like, what are you doing?
She's like, my mother was such a terrible cook.
This meal has opened up all of these memories for her.
That's what this meal, that's what a great meal can do, right?
It can be, go back to your childhood and just like relive past traumas or whatever.
Or joys.
Or joys, everything.
Yeah, everything.
That's just, you know, that's what, that's what great food can do.
Yeah.
All right, Ken.
So what would you give big night a past pirate or pay?
Past pirate or pay for big night?
Obviously, a, yeah, obviously this is, this is, this is a classic.
The way I found out about this movie is I was watching no reservations.
Oh, yeah.
I think he was with Stanley Tucci and like, and he was like in Italy or something.
Yeah.
And he told Stanley Tucci he said, big night is one of the only movies that gets food right.
Interesting.
And I was like, I've never seen that.
I got to see that.
So I just saw it out and saw it.
It's another Bourdain mentioned.
That's great.
Yeah.
I said, I got this, this movie was recommended to my friend in college.
So Ilka, if you're listening, I've spoken to you.
And since, I don't know, 1998, but if you happen to be listening to this podcast, you were
right and I was wrong.
This movie is great.
Our final movie today is 2023's The Taste of Things, directed by Trump.
We're on Hong.
This is a French movie.
I believe the director is Vietnamese, but quite a combo.
Yeah.
I mean, you know, again, colonialism French, French colonized.
That's why we have the, that's why we have the bond me.
It's the San Antonio Baguette from Vietnam.
You know, yeah.
So this is another movie about a chef who is an artist.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He's a Yugenie, she's played by Julien Pinot.
And her lover, I guess you would call him is a name is Dodan.
I think he is the chef and she is the cook.
Interesting.
I think he comes up with the recipes and she executes them.
Interesting.
I couldn't really tell.
It seemed like I called him the culinary Napoleon.
Yeah.
But I don't know.
It just seems like he is more of a like Gormand, right?
Like he is the guy who throws the parties and serves the food, which he's the one who actually
prepares it.
She definitely is the one who prepares it.
Yeah.
Yeah, I'm not sure.
You could be right.
But I think he was coming.
I think the both were coming up with recipes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So this is another movie that takes place in the past in the 19th century again, I think.
And Dodan is what seems to be like a barely obscenely wealthy person.
And he's got a bunch of very wealthy friends.
And they're just gorging themselves on food all the time, right?
Like it's with royalty.
Yeah.
Yeah.
There's the Prince of Eurasia, which I'm guessing is like Turkey.
I guess he's like a Turkish Royal tea or some kind.
Okay.
But yeah, he comes and visits at one point.
There's a very amusing scene where the Prince's chef comes in and reads the menu and it's
like we're going to have three courses, but it's not actually three courses.
Each course is like a five course meal in itself.
Yeah.
And it's just like this absurdly ridiculous is like, well, we're going to have squab and
then we're going to have Turkey and we're going to have duck and we're going to have muscles
and we're going to have like, it's just there.
They're having every single thing that could possibly be imagined.
But yeah, so the main focus of the movie is this couple and their love of food and the
at the beginning of the movie, Eugenie, they're not married.
So Dan at one point says that he's been trying to get her to marry him forever.
But she's just his cook.
She lives in his house.
They have sex.
It's very unusual.
I can't really feel it.
It's French.
Yeah.
I guess it is very French.
But then at some point he makes her a meal and the meal is so wonderful that she decides
to move that she will relent and marry him.
Yep.
It'll do that.
A dinner like that.
Oh.
Trouples under the chicken skin.
Holy moly.
So when we did our discussion of only lovers left alive, we talked about how you do not have
a tolerance for movies where nothing happens.
Yeah.
So I'm wondering the first like 40 minutes of this movie is just the preparation of a meal.
Like merely maybe it just hit me right on the right spot.
I kind of figured because I loved it.
I loved every single frame of this movie.
I thought I thought it was I maybe think it might be the most beautiful movie I have ever
seen.
Opening scene of them preparing this meal where it's it's Eugenie and Dodan and then these
two young women who are like employee.
I guess she's an employee too, but she's got higher standing.
These other two young women are just like, I don't know, maids or something.
Yeah.
But they're constantly all four of them are doing like a ballet, right?
Yeah.
Where they're just ducking in and out and they're working together and then they're working
separately and somebody gets out of the way while these things are happening.
Yeah.
They're all done on this like Kitchens work.
Yeah.
And it's all done on this period stove equipment where it's just like, you know, it's like
open fires, a pulse.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's so beautiful.
It really did just remind me of ballet just watching these people cook and the colors
and the way that the way that the sun shown to the sea.
Yeah.
And the scene starts with them in the garden.
So you see them like getting the vegetables out of the garden and then brushing the
dirt off of them and then preparing them to be cooked and like you see everything from
the beginning to the end and then eventually it goes out onto the plates of these rich people
as it's happening.
But yeah, it's so beautiful.
You're right.
I mean, on the whole of the movie is very gorgeous.
Every single frame, I bet if you took any frame of that movie, it looks like like a Monet
painting.
Yeah.
It's beautiful.
Yeah, you're right.
And you're right.
And Monet is a good example because it's like, it's beautiful, but it's also like
dirty.
It's like, it's a lot of earthy.
It's earthy.
That's great.
That's a great word.
It's like shades of brown like earth tones and copper.
Yeah.
And but you're right.
It's still just manages to look absolutely fantastic.
Oh, yeah.
I was watching this movie and said, if heaven exists, I want it to be this.
I want it to be just this.
All of this.
It's really something to look at.
It really is.
So throughout the course of the movie, it's hinted at that.
Yuzhene has some kind of disease.
We never really know what it is.
It's the old fainting spell.
Yeah.
Caught it into an apcan disease.
Yeah, exactly.
She's like, yeah, she's, she's all of a sudden overcome and she has, she needs to sit
out and she's, she's lost consciousness at one point.
She's like, oh, I just took a nap, but it was like she's leaning up against the tree.
Yeah.
It's very, yeah.
Who knows what exactly is happening here?
Spoiler warning.
The taste of things, spoilers ahead, skip to the next chapter or minute marker, 53 minutes
and 30 seconds to hear the verdict.
You have been warned.
So Yuzhene dies and still a lot of movie left, lots of movie left.
And for me, once she dies, the movie stops working.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Oh, I don't think so.
So I don't really like, I, Julia, I don't know.
She's good.
But I feel like for the parts of what she's alive, Dodan is the more interesting character.
Oh, I thought she was really interesting.
I thought she was great.
I, I agree, but I thought Dodan was more interesting.
But then once she dies, the movie just seems to completely peter out for me where it's
like Dodan is beside himself and he's just, he's completely unable to carry on without
her.
You know, he's looking for a new cook.
Uh-huh.
Trying to get, you know, it's how he moves on.
It's like, right, it's like him moving on.
Yeah, yeah, right, right, right.
And he's having trouble with it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But then very abruptly at the end of the movie, he's like, he's talking to one of the young
made women about how she is the love of his life and there will never be anyone who could
ever replace her and nothing ever happened.
And then one of his rich friends comes in and says, you have to try this.
This is some food, this, this, this chef we just made found and he tries it and he's like,
all of a sudden brought back to life.
He's like, this is it.
We found her.
She's like, my new cook and off they go and it seems and that's the end of the movie.
It was like, oh, we found a new cook.
Life is great again.
You didn't like the relationship between the young girl who was wanted to be a chef.
She's learning how to be a chef.
Yeah, I did.
I thought that was cool.
Then the whole end like had to do with that too.
Yeah, I agree, but I don't know.
It just seems like for all the times where Dodand doesn't know what to do without Yugenie,
the movie didn't seem to know what to do without her either.
And I have a, what might be a weird reading of this movie and I want to see what you think
of it.
I don't, I don't even know if I believe this, but I think that it is possible.
I think it's possible that this movie is a class consciousness satire.
Okay.
The welcome on the wealth of these people is so absurd and Dodand's relationship with
Yugenie is so strange that I think the movie is trying to say that he doesn't actually love
her as a person.
He only loves her because she is this amazing cook.
And at one point, he, at one point, they're talking to each other and she actually says to
him, yeah, do you love me as a woman or do you love me as a cook and he without hesitation
is like, oh, as a cook.
And then when all of his rich friends are mourning Yugenie's death, they're talking about the
food.
And then at some point, somebody's like, you know, it should also be mentioned that she was
a very beautiful woman, whereas just like this is the afterthought her as a person is an
afterthought.
So it just seems to me like I think it's entirely possible that the movie is trying to suggest
that these people, these glutton are rich assholes and that this is not a way that society
should run.
And the way that they're basically willing to discard Yugenie and once we find somebody
who can do what she has done, then we don't need her at all anymore and we can stop my
way to her death.
I know.
I need to.
What a, what a horrible prism to view this movie through.
I don't know.
This beautiful movie.
The thing is though, that's the only way that the ending makes sense to me.
I originally after the movie ended, I felt the way you feel and I thought, yeah, this is
a beautiful movie about the glory of like the other ones, like the two we've already talked
about, about the glory of cooking, you know, the art of meal preparation and things like
that.
And I was thinking that and I just didn't really like the way that it ended.
And then the more I thought about the ending, I'm just like the only way this makes sense
is if the movie is trying to signal it, if the director is trying to signal us that
these people are not good people.
You may be on to something.
I didn't think of that until you said it.
Yeah.
But I thought a little bit about it when I started researching or to land, bunting.
Okay.
Or to land, bunting is the bird that they ate at their friends house.
Okay.
Do you know how that's prepared?
No.
It's illegal.
Uh-huh.
They ate it in succession and they mentioned that it was kind of illegal.
Oh, with the napkins over their heads?
The napkins over the heads.
Yeah.
So the reason they put the napkins over their heads is there's two reasons and it's fuzzy
on which one it is.
One is that you inhale all the aroma and your secluded off from everything else.
You can focus on just eating the bird.
The second is that you are hiding your face in shame from God and from the people at the
table so they don't see you enjoy this awful dish because the way it's prepared is the
bird is caught and then its eyes are plucked out.
And it lives in a cage and is fed figs and oranges and all this sweet, delicious fruit
until it overgorgeous itself and it's doubled in size.
And it is drowned in a brandy.
That's how they kill it.
They drown it in a brandy.
Oh my God.
And then when you eat it, you eat everything.
Yeah.
Bones, guts, skull, everything.
And because of how cruel of a dish it was to make, it's been outlawed in the U.S. and
in the UK.
Jesus.
And the bird is like native to the UK.
Yeah.
See?
This is what I'm saying.
It's entirely possible that this director is making a very, very subtle jab at the rich
people, at rich people, right?
Like a lot of movies about the super rich are way more obvious when they're like lampooning
them.
And this is a bit more subtle.
I feel like this movie is is cloaked in beautiful imagery of food.
Like it's on the surface.
It's gorgeous food porn.
Yeah.
And underneath, I feel like this guy is trying to tell us something.
Oh.
Well, I did not get that.
I didn't think you would.
And I don't even know that it's there.
I'm not even 100% convinced myself that that's what it is.
Well because it like his feelings for her are so poetic and so big and so right beautiful.
And that's not how rich people think of poor people.
At least in my mind, especially in a satire of class, do they respect the artistry of
poor people that much that they love them that much.
But the thing is that Yuzhene is not really a poor person, right?
She is an artist.
She is, she's not wealthy like them, but she is clearly distinct from the other young woman
that works for them, right?
She is definitely a level above the other servants.
So she's not just a servant.
So I think that that's what we're showing like her talent is the thing that he's in
love with.
And that is what allows him to keep her separate from all of the other peons that we're
for you.
Okay.
That's what I think.
I think that I think I think it is entirely possible that that's what this is do.
I think this is very likely or not very likely, but very possibly a super subtle satire.
What about when she wouldn't go in his room after they were married and she wanted to stay
separate?
Yeah.
Or, you know, I think that's the case that you're not really in love with people.
And they're not the same.
Yeah, for sure.
That's true, right?
I don't know.
Their relationship is he's clearly taken with her, right?
He clearly has very strong feelings for her.
But I really feel like it's where we might supposed to think we might be supposing to think
that his feelings for her are as a cook and not as a person.
That's why she is replaceable with the end.
All right.
That's what I see it.
That's what I think.
That's really depressing because I thought that was really sweet and really beautiful.
You put this whole dark tinge on it.
That's what I'm here for.
Either way, I feel like if the movie is not that tire, then the end really doesn't work.
And if the movie is satire, then I wish it were a little more overt.
I wish I didn't have to debate with myself as to whether or not that's actually what it
is.
Or maybe that might not be the movie's fault.
That just might be I'm not smart enough to see what this guy's going for.
I don't know.
I don't know.
But yeah, but wasn't the food awesome in that?
It wasn't a photograph like perfectly.
It looked very beautiful.
It was very like every single thing, the baked Alaska, whatever that bread, like soup dish
at the beginning.
Yeah.
Oh, that the oysters, the paper bread thing that he makes at one point really.
Yeah, that was cool.
That was cool.
That was cool.
Yeah.
That was cool.
Holy mackerel.
It was just so it was like a like a third leading character in the movie.
Yeah.
The food was it really is.
This movie undeniably works as food porn.
Yeah.
It is.
It is certainly a movie that will make you hungry and just people blowing their minds eating
stuff.
That's always fun to watch.
Yeah.
And that was a lot.
There was a lot of that in there.
A lot.
I just wanted to bring it up.
I thought that was my my main takeaway from the movie about the next morning after I
watched it.
I was outside walking my dog.
And as I was walking, I was thinking about the movie and I was like, we, you know what?
Maybe.
Maybe this guy's trying to tell us something.
Maybe he is.
I remember the next day I was thinking about what was that bread thing and how I make it.
I'm sure Google can tell you that.
So Ken, I'm very curious.
What do you give the taste of things a past pirate or pay for me?
The taste of things is a pirate.
I know.
I know.
You know.
It's a pay for me.
If it was only shots of the food.
Yeah.
I think characters or plot or anything, I'd still give it a pay.
It was so beautiful.
Yeah.
I think I would have liked the better if that were the case.
So beautiful.
I still like the story.
I love the acting.
I love the writing.
Everything worked for me.
I mean, like I said, the first, the first 40 minutes of this movie are incredible.
I thought I just, I'm so beautiful and so captivating.
But yeah, once you start getting into, there's not much story involved here, but once you
start getting into it, it's a little muddled for me and I didn't love it.
I did.
It's pay for me.
Yeah.
All right.
So pay, pay, pirate, pay, pirate, yep.
And I'm pay, pay, pay, all the way, baby.
That is some good, that's some good movie making right there.
We did, we did, we did well.
Yeah.
These are some good ones.
All right, Ken.
We got to talk about next week's assignment.
Yeah.
Okay.
So I think that for the past few weeks, I think you've had a pretty good, I feel like I
have.
Yeah.
We've been watching this really, really good movie.
I've liked very much liked almost everything we've watched.
Well, maybe a little too good.
Yeah.
So, I stumbled upon a YouTube clip last week and it is the, like, the most disturbing movies
ever made.
Oh, no.
So I curated this list.
Okay.
I came up with three.
Now, tell me if you've seen any of these because I want these all to be new to you.
Okay.
Okay.
The first one is called Megan is missing.
Nope.
Never seen it?
Never heard of it.
You're going to watch that one.
Megan is missing.
Megan is missing.
Okay.
The second one is a foreign film called Salo, S-A-L-O.
Nope.
That's your second one.
Okay.
That's an older one too, I think.
Okay.
Um, and your last one is a Serbian film.
Okay.
You haven't seen that?
A Serbian film?
It's called a Serbian film.
No, I've never heard of it.
That's your third one.
Oh, fuck, Zake.
Who am I getting into?
I kind of wanted to hold off on that because it's pretty hardcore.
Oh, fuck.
Megan is missing.
Salo and a Serbian film.
Okay.
Great.
Are you going to be watching these?
Eeeeeee.
Should I?
I mean, should I?
I mean, I hope it's to have a discussion if you're watching them too.
All right.
I'll watch them.
Oh, I can't put you through it and not put me through it.
Yeah.
I mean, these aren't the worst movies of all time.
Great.
So catch up, folks.
I can't wait.
Can't wait.
If you're out there in a listener land, make sure you go see all three of those movies.
Yeah.
And if you're listening to the week of January 13th, maybe give me a hug, because I might need
one after this assignment.
All right.
Good luck, Ken.
See you next week.
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