The Long Distance Lounge: More Than Travel

Visiting Normandy D-Day sites with local French guides

• Tim Sweeney's TWIN THIEVES MEDIA • Season 1 • Episode 4

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Ever thought about visiting Normandy, France? Local Normandy D-Day guides join host Tim Sweeney to share some of the heroic, personal stories you will hear if you take a trip to the Normandy region of France. Morgane Bowen and Pierre-Alexandre Roussel spend their days sharing the knowledge they've gained as local Normandy tour guides for Bayeux Shuttle. Morgane, who has lived in the area for a decade, and Pierre, who grew up in Normandy, explain the welcoming nature of the local people and what it's like to bring visitors to the sacred beaches and villages of Normandy. The host shares how his own visit to Normandy impacted him and they discuss the scale of the invasion, the legacy of sacrifice, and practical advice for planning a visit to this historic area.

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SPEAKER_02:

Bonjour and welcome to the Long Distance Lounge. My name is Tim Sweeney and you guessed it, on this episode we are headed to France, specifically to the Normandy region because coming up soon is the 81st anniversary of the D-Day landings on June 6, 1944 at Normandy during World War II. So on this episode we're going to hear from Morgan and Pierre. They are experts on the landings and the entire history of the area. Morgan has been living in Normandy for 10 years, and Pierre grew up in the area. Both of them are history buffs, and they spend their days working for a company called Bayeux Shuttles, which takes visitors on immersive tour experiences to all the Normandy sites. So out to the beaches, to some of the small towns in the area, to the cemeteries there, and to the famous Mont Saint-Michel as well. There are a ton of really moving places to visit if you get to Normandy. I've been there. It is one of the most rewarding travel experiences I've ever had. And the people who give these tours, like Morgan and Pierre, they have a lot of really small nuggets of anecdotal information that you cannot get from watching movies or TV series or anything. even books in a lot of cases. So they're going to share a lot of that information with us and also some of the information they get from visitors. That's what makes talking to them really interesting because they're not just giving information on the tours, but they're having conversations with visitors, some of whom are the family members of veterans who were there on the day 81 years ago. So they have a lot of great stories. The one thing that I really took away from Normandy is was that things are very much normal today. People go to the beach, they enjoy life, and that's a bit surprising when you're there for some reason. You just feel like these are memorials, these beaches, but people are at the beach, etc. And it also dawned on me as I was standing on the beach is that that was kind of the point of everything that happened there. That's why people fought, so that life could be free and normal. And we talk about that on this episode with Morgan and Pierre, and they have some really interesting perspective on it. So without further ado, this is Morgan and Pierre, experts on Normandy, France and the D-Day landings. I hope you enjoy. Morgan and Pierre, thank you for joining me today. You're experts on Normandy. You live there. Let's say most people come to Paris and then they do a trip up there for a couple of days or something, or you can even do day trips, be a long day, but you go to Caen, if I said that right.

SPEAKER_01:

And

SPEAKER_02:

then you change trains to Bayeux, which is where you guys are working on, which is a beautiful little town with a little river running through and the cafes and super welcoming, which I want

SPEAKER_01:

to get into. Yeah, it's

SPEAKER_02:

charming. Yeah, but this is kind of a leaping off point to see all these things around D-Day, Normandy, everything, all the history we know about. How many people come through there in a year as tourists? In the millions, probably?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, yeah, you know, it's hard to say, actually. It's really hard to say. Just to give you an idea, we can give you...

SPEAKER_00:

Estimated numbers for the two most visited sites in the area, which are Le Mont-Saint-Michel, with about 3 million visitors every year. Wow, okay.

SPEAKER_01:

And the American Cemetery.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

It's 2 million. 2

SPEAKER_02:

million. That's a staggering amount of people. Because it's country, right? I mean, the area is, it's a lot of farming and stuff through Normandy.

SPEAKER_01:

We're very famous for the milk, for the cider, for the brandy.

SPEAKER_00:

It sounds really cliche, but when you buy your postcard, you have everything at the same place. Green pasture, the cow, the apple tree, and that's it. It's basically what we had all around.

SPEAKER_02:

So can you tell me a bit about the people in the area? Because when I went there, I was amazed at how kind of warm and welcoming and because a lot of times in tourist places, we're seeing it now across Europe, right? Places that are overrun by tourists and they're saying tourists get out. In Normandy, I always wanted to ask someone who lived there, is it that they're turning on the the welcome sauce in a way because they paint the windows and they say like, thank you for our freedom. So clearly there's a marketing spiel to this, right? I guess the stories would get passed down from generation to generation too in that region, right? Pierre, maybe you know this well because you grew up there. I'm curious about the attitude, how it's quite genuine or there's a bit of marketing. What's that all about there?

SPEAKER_00:

No, no, it's for most, well, it depends on the time of the year you're visiting. Yeah. Or if you're coming at the end of August, everybody's exhausted and they have enough. Genuinely, if you come during May and June, as you're really close to the D-Day anniversary, people are really, really happy to have reenactors, tourists coming from all around the world coming to visit, remember and pay tribute. Some guests told me that we are a bit more reserved and shy than people in Holland. We tend to demonstrate less But people are really, really happy about seeing...

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, plus I think, you know, that we're still very grateful. Because you saw the flags. I mean, the American flags, the Canadian flags, the British flags all over the place. This is sincere. This is not just for marketing and just to show. No, I think it's sincere. You know, it was just 80 years ago.

SPEAKER_02:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

This is not that old. And... And we have, I think, a strong relationship between the U.S. and France. And I think, you know, it's...

SPEAKER_00:

And get some, yeah, trust relationship between people. We trust people to come to visit. The visitors are trusting us to host them and welcome them the best we can. So I would say you may have some places. It's really a sales technique. As you said, you got the painted windows, you got the flags up front. But I would say 95% of people living in the area are genuinely happy to.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and that's the way I felt too. I don't want to say that it's all marketing because it doesn't feel that way at all. I was just curious because it's almost overwhelming when you get there. As coming from another part of France in the Alps, people are a bit more understated and they keep to themselves a bit more. And you get to Normandy and it felt... One, the level of English and stuff is incredible, too. All the people, probably because of all the visitors. But for people who've thought about going but never taken the leap to go there, that is a really cool part of the whole experience. It's just, you feel like, yeah, people are like, thanks for coming. And because it's not me, it's not my story from 80 years ago, but you almost feel like you're being welcomed in as if it is because of where you're from, which is a cool experience.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, but I really think that, you know, this is something that we share. It's your history as much as it's ours. So this is really about sharing. It's about sharing and it's our history.

SPEAKER_02:

I read something you said, Morgan, that the responsibility you feel to give these tours and this experience to people when they come in because of just what you're saying, like, a shared history. How did you arrive at that? Were there experiences for yourself that kind of made you feel this way? Because this is something you have to learn, I guess. You read about it, then you go there. Going there changes you in a way, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, really. It's a huge part of the culture here. It's a huge part of the Norman identity. Don't forget that Normandy, it's a land of freedom, but it's also a battlefield. You know, it's a land of freedom. It's a land of sacrifice. You know, if at the end of the day you don't remember how many men, what time, I don't mind. But if you do remember the sacrifice, it's okay.

SPEAKER_02:

Then you've done your job, yeah. Yeah,

SPEAKER_01:

I've done my job. That's what I think. We have to share. And we learn from each other. I mean, 95% of our guests are from the United States with a grandfather or a father or someone involved in World War II. This is something big. This is something huge. So this is really something that we share. We're not teachers. You know, this is not just a classroom. We are not teachers. We're here to pass on history, to share, to learn from each other. It's really important.

SPEAKER_02:

And so let's talk about kind of a day if someone, so I can share my experience, which is I came up for a couple nights. First day was, you know, in the afternoon I arrived. So I rented a bike, one of these old bikes. I felt like I was riding a bike in 1943, 1944. We're back in

SPEAKER_01:

time.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, exactly. Riding kind of through the country roads that go out to the British sector. I think that's, I think it was Gold Beach, correct? Like through the And it was really cool because they were farming and I felt like I'd step back in time a bit, probably because of the bicycle, but did that. And in the evening in Bayeux, there's also a lot going on. They had like a light show on this tree in town. I was surprised by all of that. And then the next day I did the tour with your group. The tour guide was, I guess he's not there anymore, but he was from Wales and he was fantastic. And that's what made the day is people like yourself that have done the research and really want to make the experience special, because I know it can be hard. You do the same stuff probably a lot of days in a row. But can you talk about, say, the tour I did, I think, was the American D-Day. There's a few to choose from, right? You can decide which tour you want to take, how long, how far you want to go. The one I did was fantastic, just really incredible. So what are the options and what can people get into there if they go?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, we changed a few things. But the American D-Day experience that you've been experiencing is still available. We got two options for this one. Either we can leave from downtown Bayeux or from the train station if people are coming on day trip to Paris. That is the most requested. And we do read the main highlights of the two American sectors that are Omaha and Utah Beach. So we do go there. Yeah, so can we touch, I know you

SPEAKER_01:

want

SPEAKER_02:

to give the whole tour away online here, but a couple of the highlights. Pont du Hoc was the place where the army rangers scaled these cliffs, which you can hear about it. But then when you stand there and look at the cliffs, it's mind boggling. And that's kind of the theme of the whole day is, You can watch the films, which some of the stuff is amazing. Some of the series that have been done in recent years is truly, yeah, makes you really stop and think when you're watching it. But standing there on the land is a different thing entirely. What's the reaction of people?

SPEAKER_01:

The reaction is, wow. People are always very surprised by the scale. of the invasion. You may remember that from Pointe du Hoc, we can see the Cotentin de Peninsula. We can see Utah. We can see that. So people are always very surprised. But the scale, how big? Well, it's 52 miles. I mean, from Utah to Sword. This is enormous. This is huge. So this is the main reaction. I mean, for me.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, but it depends on the weather. Sometimes you cannot see as far as you would like to, but most of the time, people are really shocked by how big the entire operation was. And just the landscape, as you mentioned, just seeing the heights of the cliff, it's really... It cannot be done anytime. And those men pulled it off. So, yeah. It's really amazing, astonishing. And... remembering how vast Omaha Beach can be, especially if you come here during low tide. It's really mind-blowing.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, that story of the rangers on the cliff, because I guess I knew about it, but then, you know, President Reagan, I think, went and gave the speech there, and I was looking at that, and there are some poignant words. He said, you know, as they seized the farmland at the top of these cliffs, they began to seize back the continent of Europe. I mean, he's a great orator, great philosopher, giver of speeches but when you stand there and see those cliffs and this it's a small small number of men it's just incredible what's what's the highlight of the tour for you do you have a favorite spot

SPEAKER_01:

oh it's a hard question um yeah

SPEAKER_00:

that's that is the most iconic

SPEAKER_01:

I

SPEAKER_00:

thought it was the most difficult and that's the one we can see most on TV, commentaries on movies.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, this is something important. Sometimes people are just standing on the beach and just crying. They just need time to process. This is something powerful. It's a powerful place. It's a special place. The American cemetery, of course, it's very quiet and peaceful and But I really think that you need to stand on the beach to understand and to heal. Yeah,

SPEAKER_02:

I agree with that. One of the things that surprised me was, you said the scope of the whole operation is amazing. That gives you perspective by going to all the places that the tour takes you because you realize like, oh, the 101st Airborne is landing here and we've taken an hour to drive from here. And you can kind of get an idea of like, what they were trying to do on the day or days. But the size of the beach, like the depth of the beach from what you have to cross, because there's a lot of things that went sideways in the operation as well, right? Like the weather, people missing drop zones, and there's far more qualified people than me to talk about this. But yeah, the weather was bad. Then the tides were off, I think. Is that correct? They had to go a long way from...

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it was low rising tide.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. But the distance they had to cover on the beach is staggering when you see the... Like I saw it, I think, fairly low tide and I was amazed at that.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Yeah, we have the second biggest tide in the world.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

So they had to cover it for the first wave.

SPEAKER_00:

Around 300 yards. 300

SPEAKER_01:

yards.

SPEAKER_00:

And as the time is passing, the tide is coming in, so it reduces the distance, but... Yeah, most of them would still have to cover 200 yards on foot. Yeah. Yeah, and

SPEAKER_01:

the fire, and the heavy fire.

SPEAKER_00:

And completely soaked.

SPEAKER_01:

Soaked, well, I mean, yeah, terrified. And there were 19, 20, 21. Some of them were farmers, some of them were students. Yeah,

SPEAKER_02:

and that's true what you said about standing there and feeling it, because that's not something you can get unless you go there.

SPEAKER_01:

You can read the book, but you need to...

SPEAKER_02:

Right. How about meeting people from, I guess, mostly from the U.S., but any... Have you met veterans or people from the day? Now we're getting to there's so few of them left, they're 100 years old, but... Well, Morgan, you've been doing this in the area for a decade, right? Yeah, I've met some...

SPEAKER_01:

I've met British veterans, of course. And now it's more relatives. I mean, their sons. You know, in April, I was honored to be... to have as my guest the two sons of Pathfinder, who landed next to St. Mary's. Larry and Dave Bowman. They signed the walls, I mean, because... We have a restaurant in St. Magli where you can sign a wall. They signed the wall. It was very moving. I've learned a lot about the Pathfinders and the Boratroopers. Yeah, it's always very moving. I like to cry a lot, you know. I'm always crying. I

SPEAKER_02:

can understand it. It is very emotional to be there. And it's not just the stories of what happened on D-Day and the days that followed, but the stories... of the people coming back. So it's sort of, the stories continue in a way. Like you said, I think, is it a restaurant or a cafe? What is it called? The place, is that at Omaha?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, there's the Roosevelt on Utah Beach.

SPEAKER_02:

Utah Beach, right. And then there's signatures on the wall. So over the years, it's veterans of the day, but then also their sons, daughters, grandsons, granddaughters

SPEAKER_01:

who will write a message Yeah, my guests signed the wall. You know, they just wrote in memory of Jasper Bowman, Pathfinder, 82nd Airborne Division. It was really moving for them and for me.

SPEAKER_00:

And you don't have only veterans and people from their family, but U.S. militaries often come to field trips to learn about what happened. They do visit, they bring huge plaques, they give shoulder patches, they do sign the wall. Everybody's coming to visit and we can see that the memory is still alive and it's really transmitted from generation to generation. And even the young recruits coming to field trips can experience it as well.

SPEAKER_02:

And some people still do, I think the word I guess is foraging, but I think the guy that I went on the tour with, they go out and look for things that are still found, like on roadside bunkers and things, the little clickers, they call them. What's that little, not industry, but that little world like? They're still finding things in fields and things like this, probably less and less now, but what type of things do they uncover?

SPEAKER_01:

Ammunitions. After a big storm, you know, on the beach, after a big storm.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, even on the beach, we still find shell casing. Still on Omaha, in the middle of a field. You may find some unexploded artifacts. Mystery bombs that did not explode when being dropped. But you can find really all kinds of things. Yeah, shell casing, bombs.

SPEAKER_01:

Circles and... Everything

SPEAKER_00:

that was made out of metal.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

That was not scavenged at the time.

SPEAKER_01:

Like the hedgehogs, some pieces of hedgehogs.

SPEAKER_00:

I don't remember where it is, but... Nature is coming back, and you have, at some point, I think it's a German rifle in the middle of the tree, and it keeps on growing.

SPEAKER_01:

Really? Wow,

SPEAKER_02:

that's incredible. We're 80 years on now. Pierre, you grew up there, so I'm curious what that's like to grow up in that region. Are there... I have some friends who, like my friend whose grandmother would tell him stories of living when it was occupied by German soldiers. So she's obviously an older woman, but she was a kid, you know, I don't know, 10 years old or something at the time. When you grow up there, you must have a different slant on the head, not slant, but a different perspective because, you know, the stories my grandfather told me to make me fall asleep. Yeah. are probably different than the stories you get in real life growing up in a place like that. What's that like for someone like you?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, as you mentioned, they were mostly kids at the time, so it's a different point of view. I think what is coming up often is that the German troops occupying the area, of course you had bad men, but most of them, especially Germans, Before the Battle of Normandy, there were people that were drafted from 16 up to 70 years old. Right. People that were not willing to fight. They had their own families back in Germany, back in the country they were coming from, for they are not only German troops. But most of those soldiers would be, I don't know how to say that, well, polite and well-deserving. They were very polite. Yeah. And they were behaving really well compared to the very first occupation troops that were really tough German soldiers that would be sent on the east to fight against the Russians. Those men were just here to say that the German army is occupying the area. And Normandy was not what they thought it would be. The people could not land in Normandy. It was slightly less defended. It doesn't need to be as well defended as it can be in the north. So, They were living their life. The German troops were working. Of course, living under the occupation was difficult. You had to work for the German troops. You have to follow a curfew. You have to host German troops. And if you don't have any room, well, they will take over and you can leave and find somewhere else to go. But most of the time, most of the stories, at least coming from my grandparents, they were around Falaise. You have the Falaise pocket that we close really early. Battle of Normandy, in a way. And until reinforcement, a few weeks after the landing, even the German soldiers were still polite and they would do everything to keep the kids safe, most of them, and to make it not as difficult as it could be before some other places in France.

SPEAKER_01:

And plus, you know, many of them were back from Russia, when USSR, back then. Many of them were back from Russia. They were sick.

SPEAKER_00:

They were sent here to rest and recover.

SPEAKER_01:

Rest and recover. Well, it's not an excuse, and I'm not defending anyone.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, no, no, I understand, because I've heard the same stories from French people that I know, and I was not aware of that at all, because it's not what you see in the movies. No one delves into that, you know? That's not the... the main part of a story.

SPEAKER_01:

The difference between the Wehrmacht, which is the regular army.

SPEAKER_00:

Even though they did bad things. Nazi,

SPEAKER_01:

Wehrmacht, I mean Nazi and regular army, that's... That's the phrase.

SPEAKER_02:

But that's all the stuff you learn when you visit the place, is you get the details of what life was like there. Because these are... Small towns, small villages, people have very day-to-day lives, especially in that time period. These aren't big cities. They're really still today small villages, beautiful little places in the countryside. But I think I may have told you beforehand, but when I, living in France, had to have surgery, appendicitis, nothing I was planning, and the appendectomy, I should say, And I had my room to recover. And in walks this older gentleman. And I was, you know, in no mood to have a roommate at that point, just tired. And I said to myself, oh, geez. And this guy started talking to me. He was 90 years old. This was a few years ago. And then it turned into me practicing my French and him practicing his English.

SPEAKER_00:

And

SPEAKER_02:

he was telling me about growing up in the north. I forget where it was, but in the north of France. So he was a kid, eight or something years old. or 12 or whatever he was and his brother was made to work in a factory to make I don't know planes or something for the German army and it turned into for me being kind of sour about having a roommate in my hospital room to this fascinating conversation but that's the thing sadly we won't have those first hand conversations much longer so yeah jealous of the things you probably learned here growing up just naturally I mean What is it like to live, though, in a place like that with such history? Are you always aware of it? Or life is also normal day to day, correct?

SPEAKER_00:

It's... Yeah, it's normal life, but we have reminders everywhere. We have monuments.

SPEAKER_01:

Memorials. But, you know, when we go to the... When I go to the beach, I go to Omaha. You know, when we...

SPEAKER_00:

This

SPEAKER_01:

is where we live. This is...

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, living in Caen, if you want to go walk on the sand, go for a swim, the closest is going on Sword Beach.

SPEAKER_01:

Sword or...

SPEAKER_00:

Even though it can be difficult for people to understand that it is still open to public and not kept as a sanctuary.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, the vote for freedom. The vote for freedom, going to the beach is freedom. We live here. This is a normal life. We use the beach as a normal beach.

SPEAKER_02:

Let me ask you what you think people get from a visit to Normandy because I've heard people say, yeah, I got to do that. I got to do that. And they go to Paris and then it's hard to, you know, then they go wine tasting. They go to all the tourist spots, but maybe Normandy just didn't make the cut. But why do you think it's important for people to come there and hear the stories firsthand, not just watch the movies and watch the series because, of course, there's been some amazing series and movies made even in recent years about that area and the experience of D-Day. Why is it important to actually see there and see it and be there?

SPEAKER_01:

You know, about movies, I'm thinking about Saving Private Ryan.

SPEAKER_02:

But there's also Abandoned Brothers and others, so it's been well chronicled, clearly, in some amazing books. It's not the same as being there.

SPEAKER_01:

And that's why you need to come because this is a movie. Saving Private Ram and the 21st minutes are okay, really. That's what happens, yeah. But it does not give you a good appreciation of the scale, of the size of the coast.

SPEAKER_00:

Of all the war effort that is going on. Yeah,

SPEAKER_01:

it was just one bunker. I mean, it's 17 bunkers. all over Omaha. Well, you need to come to realize that this is not a movie. It was the real life. That's what

SPEAKER_00:

happened. And coming to visit allows you to realize the full scope of it and feel really what they had to go through. If you come during low tide, you will see how long the beach can be and We have maps, pictures to show you when we're there. And really just feel, feel the wind, feel the rain.

SPEAKER_01:

Hear the birds. Because today, Omaha, if you go early in the morning, it's peaceful and quiet. And it's a beautiful beach. Really, it's a beautiful beach. And it's hard to... I believe that 80 years ago, it was chaos and destruction and it was hell, hell on earth. That's what the veterans used to say. It was hell on earth. It was the ugliest beach.

SPEAKER_02:

And that is surprising when you go to visit because I went, it was particularly nice summer day. People are there going to the beach as if you go to any beach because it's sunny and your kids want to play in the surf. You're right. When you stand there and think about it, you think of the contrast from that day when you're there. to 80 years ago. But in a way, I guess I sort of, I don't want to say rationalized it, but you think, well, that's why it happened here. So that this is what people are enjoying today is like the freedoms of the day-to-day, live the life. So that's sort of a good thing. Because in a way you feel weird to say like, well, the kids running around in the surf and this is a sacred place, but that's why they did it, right?

SPEAKER_00:

For freedom. Yeah. That's what the veterans will say. Every year they're coming back and the interviewers are always asking the same question. Do you find that normal that people still go swimming on that beach? Well, we came to fight for freedom and people are still free to do whatever they want. Yeah, there would be 98% of them.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Sometimes people are a bit, not upset, but surprised. I mean, surprised that Because the perspective is different if you go to Omaha in the afternoon. Of course, you will have people in swimsuits all around you. So the perspective is different. That's why it's nice to go early in the morning. Because the beach is empty and quiet. And yeah, you can hear the wind. You can hear the birds. You can hear the sea.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. The tour took us there, I think, in the afternoon. So I did see the people playing. But it did. That was quite... confronting thing for me for that tour was at that point and it forced me to think about it in a way seeing these kids playing and um there's british people there going to the beach there's french people who just live in the area and you go well that's strange and then you know if you allow yourself to sort of pontificate a minute you go well that's why they did it like the beach is here it would be foolish for no one to be using it and and Using the beach for what people use the beach for all over the world, just having a nice day and enjoying themselves, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, sure. And, well, it's preserved. I mean, the beach, Omaha is preserved, but it's not a sanctuary. You know, but it's preserved. It's not a seaside resort. You know, we have just a few houses.

SPEAKER_02:

For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that would be a different taste. If there were high-rise condos and stuff, it would be a different feeling. Yeah. It's respectful for sure, I should say that. Another thing I was not prepared for, in addition to the size of the beach, like we said earlier, was the scope of the American Cemetery. And the tour takes you there, the one I did in the evening. And it's sort of a mystical experience. It's huge. It's called in Colville-sur-Mer. Is that what it's called? Colville-sur-Mer. Colville-sur-Mer. Colville-sur-Mer.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

It's beautiful, if I can say that, about a cemetery, like so well kept and elegant in a way. They play taps at sunset when they take the American flag down. It's really a moving experience and you really cannot get over the scope of the place. It is huge. What is it like when you watch people experience that? They might have family members who were killed there or just Americans who it hits you when you're there. Is it... Is it the same for you each day when you take people there? You're probably experiencing it again and again in a way.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, it depends on the tour. If we are on a group tour, most of the time we try to be there on time for taps. But we leave people wandering on their own so they can take most of it and have their own place inside the cemetery. If we are with a private group, group. We have to be with them. And it doesn't matter how many times you've seen that, how many times you've been experiencing it. I think we are all sensitive in a bit. And if your guests are praying, you're praying as well. So yeah, that makes it into perspective. And I told most of my guests that if I'm coming at the end of the tour at the American Cemetery, watch taps with them, I don't feel anything, well, I can stop doing what I'm doing. Right. That makes total sense to

SPEAKER_01:

me. You know, just try, that's why I used to tell my guests, just try to imagine a boy standing next to each cross. Well, yeah. You know, Yeah. A young boy. I mean, next to it first. It's 9,389. Wow. It's an incredible

SPEAKER_00:

amount.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh,

SPEAKER_00:

yeah. And it's, as you said, a bit mystical. It is. And that's something that I often say to my guests as well. It can be a really nice, warm, sunny day. I'm not really... religious or spiritual myself, but it seems weird and it seems to be really a coincidence. Every time I'm there and they start to play taps, it starts to rain a bit or there's someone traveling with a toddler and the kid starts to cry as well. I don't know if it's the mystical effect of the cemetery, but there's Clearly something to feel.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, or when you can see a rainbow during taps. Sometimes you can see a rainbow. I mean, this is a special place.

SPEAKER_02:

When did all that happen? When did it all get set up? You must explain this on the tour. But is it right after the war they did all this work to do that?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, 1947, actually. It's in 1947 that the U.S. government asked the families if they wanted their loved ones to be,

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah,

SPEAKER_01:

returned back to the United States or if they wanted them to be buried here in Normandy. You might be surprised, but 60% of the boys were returned back to the United States. Meaning that 40% of them are buried at the American...

SPEAKER_00:

It's almost 10,000.

SPEAKER_01:

It's almost 10,000.

SPEAKER_00:

But it's only 40% of the troops that were loved during the Battle of Normandy.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh my goodness. I did not remember that stat from the tour. That's incredible. So it's over 9,000 there. It, it is a site that this crosses just go on forever. So let me, let me ask you as experts in the area, if someone came to Paris, wanted to do the tour and they have say two nights to shoot up there, what would you recommend? I mean, your company has a lot of different things on offer, but from the whole experience of like in town where I stayed in Bayeux was, was beautiful, quaint. How would you go about that? If they're a traveler and they really want to, okay, I'm finally going to do this, the Normandy trip, what would they do?

SPEAKER_01:

Good. I would do a full day.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, maybe the full day tour. Depends on the The company you can book with, but we all do the American sectors. And depending on the company, you can also visit the British or the Canadian areas. But if you have maybe two days on site, I would recommend one day on D-Day sites. It doesn't matter if you're coming from Great Britain, Canada, Australia. You have something.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah,

SPEAKER_00:

there's always something to visit. Doesn't matter the part of the world you're coming from. One day on D-Day related sites and maybe coming back at the end of the day, just walk around town, walk around Bayeux. If you stay in Bayeux, you can still visit the cathedral. Maybe you will have enough time to go and visit one of the three museums you have in Bayeux. Experience the local life. Go for a drink.

SPEAKER_01:

Have nice restaurants in Bayeux. Spend the night. And for the second day, I would say go to the Mont Saint-Michel if you want to do something else. Leave early, like very early. It's a

SPEAKER_02:

little bit farther to get there, yeah? How far is that?

SPEAKER_01:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

So yeah, either go and visit the Mont Saint-Michel, or that's really one of the iconic sites we can visit. It's also one of the oldest we have. in the region. Otherwise, if you just want to lay low, go with the flow and take it easy, maybe go around the countryside, try to find one farm when you can do some cider tasting. I missed the

SPEAKER_02:

cider tasting. I didn't know that. Oh, that would have been perfect as I rode my old bike all over the countryside. But I think I did it pretty well then. I spent one day just kind of getting to know the area myself. And I think in addition, when I got back on the bike, I went to the other cemetery in Bayeux, which is the one

SPEAKER_01:

for the Commonwealth. The British

SPEAKER_02:

Cemetery? Yeah, the British Cemetery. Also a moving place to see. But there's a lot in and around Bayeux to see just kind of on your own, on a self-guided tour if you look up. And then to use the expertise of people like you. And I have to say thanks to people like you for doing those tours because it really keeps... It's a different experience, as you say, than reading a book or watching a movie or even just going there on your, I'm not generally, I don't love museums. I like to get out, talk to people when I travel and just experience the everyday life. But in the case of visiting Normandy, the tour and the guides make a massive, massive impact on the experience because the kind of knowledge and little stories and even the stories you might tell of people you've given tours to are quite quite fascinating so I guess I'll sort of finish on that note is who have you met along the way that just you went whoa today was a different day of work

SPEAKER_00:

I would say yeah having I think one of the best days I've had are there was a private tour with five ladies five sisters that were coming to visit for their father was a mechanic on the aircraft and So it did not come here to fight. It was kept at the back of the front line just to check all of the planes and make sure that everything was perfect in order for them to keep on fighting. And the ladies didn't know much. So just pick them up at the train station, stop for coffee, have a little breakfast. And then we started to talk. We had maps, pictures, and we went. And as the day was going, it was really not people coming to visit. It was really like giving a tour to friends. And that is, in my opinion, what makes it special at the end of the day. Rewarding way to do your job, for

SPEAKER_02:

sure. How about you, Morgan? You've been doing it now for a while, so you must have had a few, you mentioned a couple of cool experiences where you got kind of closer than normal.

SPEAKER_01:

One of my best tour was with the Bowman family, the two sons of the Pathfinders, because we followed the footsteps first because they were amazing. The two brothers were their wives. They were really, really nice and ready to share with me about their father. So we followed their father's footsteps in the countryside. We found the drop zone where he landed. That was amazing. I've learned a lot, really. I had another tour with a Native American, which was unique, really. Because, you know, 500 Natives landed on Omaha on D-Day. Okay,

SPEAKER_02:

I didn't know that. I didn't

SPEAKER_01:

know that. I really didn't know that. So I started to be interested with that. And it was really amazing because it was powerful to be with him, you know. At the cemetery, he started to sing. He started to smoke because tobacco for the natives is very important. And I was not his teacher. I was like, yeah, like his friend. And we were just touring together and walking around. And just, yeah, it was really nice.

SPEAKER_02:

I guess that's a unique thing about Normandy in a way is that the tour on the right days for you guys, it's a sharing of information, not just you explaining. So you get the family stories that come back to you because you're there as the guide, but, and then you can relay them again to other groups. I mean, within, if they're letting you, letting you in on the story. So the sharing of, of stories gets passed along from group to group and from one generation to another, to another, it's quite unique, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's really interesting. You know, the two sons of these Pathfinders, they told me that their father enlisted the paratroopers because he was an orphan and he wanted to find a family. And he found a family, you know, by enlisting the paratroopers. And also because of the leather boots. That was, I mean... This is the small detail which makes the difference, you know, that's...

SPEAKER_02:

That's a hell of a commitment to undertake for leather boots.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I mean, they had really nice leather boots.

SPEAKER_02:

Right. You can go through hell to get leather boots. Like, literally, that's something. Yeah. Finally, what advice would you give, I guess, to a young person who says, yeah, I love history, maybe I want to work in tourism, but you've found your way in this path and... I guess you seem glad that you followed your passion in a way and didn't just, I want to work. I'm going to work in an office and this is what I'm going to do. There's nothing wrong with that. I've done that for a large portion of my career, but you seem like you're really gratified with the choice you made.

SPEAKER_01:

Proud. I mean, American people are coming from the other side of the world to see this little corner of Europe. This is something we're proud of, I think.

SPEAKER_00:

And it's often part of Someone's bucket list in the family.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, this is on the bucket list.

SPEAKER_00:

For the kids, for the father. And we do have the moms and the grandmas following along. That's their trip, but we're following along and go with the flow. And it's really rewarding. At the end of the day, when those ladies or anybody that is not really interested, and they come at the end of the day and say, It was nice. Thank you for the tour. I was really not interested at first, but you kept that interesting all day long. And I have lots to learn from going back home. Can you recommend a book for the flight? Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Or a nice movie.

SPEAKER_02:

So it's the human connections in a way, isn't it? I mean, you are with people. all the time and sharing the information and they're sharing back. So that's pretty unique. That's not every job.

SPEAKER_00:

It's also different from just guiding in the museum, guiding in town. You may have your group for an hour, an hour and a half, and then they go back home. Over here, we...

SPEAKER_01:

We spend the whole day together. And

SPEAKER_00:

sometimes two, three days in a row for... They want to see the American sectors, then the Mont-Saint-Michel, and... So we are following them along and yeah, the human connection,

SPEAKER_02:

as you said. Well, again, I have to say, I appreciate what you, what you do, because it was a real fascinating experience for me to be there. And I think it's important. These, these stories, not just Normandy, but historical stories like this, but this is obviously as an American, something you, you hear about. I had a, my great uncle who I knew well, he didn't, he was in the Pacific theater and I actually have something you both would probably love to read. I have 400 of his World War II letters in envelopes, which I want to make a book out of. It's taken me too long because other things get in the way, but reading through those letters, they're all his family to him, him to his family. Quite incredible. So I guess when I went to Normandy, I had kind of an appreciation just for his mindset at the time on the other side of the world. So Going there and experiencing it through guides like yourself is quite an experience. So I appreciate it and thank you for your time and for what you do. So I would encourage people to go and get there. It's quite an experience. Thank you very much for the time.

SPEAKER_00:

You're welcome. You're

SPEAKER_01:

welcome.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you for

SPEAKER_01:

the opportunity. Pleasure. Yeah, and thank you for the opportunity.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, great. Thank you. All right, a huge thank you to Morgan and Pierre for joining me from Normandy, especially to join a podcast in your second language. Not easy, very brave, so I appreciate their time. It was really enjoyable for me to relive the experience I had there in Normandy. It freshened a lot of those memories from the few days I spent traipsing around there, first on my rickety old bicycle and then on their tour with Bayou Shuttles. I'll definitely go back there someday. And I could not recommend it more highly to go and visit Normandy, especially, of course, if you're in the area, if you're in Paris, if you're in France, pretty easy to get there by train. And again, even if you're not a World War II history buff or the idea of war is not your thing at all, not a way to spend your vacation, I still think it's worth visiting. Really cool area too. Really nice towns, pleasant people. So get up there and check it out. Thanks again for listening. If you have suggestions on future guests, I've got some lined up, but you can drop me a note on Instagram. My Instagram is T E Sweenes. That's T E S W E E N S. Let me know who I should talk to, or if you just have suggestions on the podcast. Thanks for listening and share it with your friends. Take care.

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Tim Sweeney

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