America at 250: The Freedom Story They Buried

THE OTHER SIDE OF FREEDOM (Part 2): UNTOLD HISTORIES OF THE U.S. AT 250  | Featuring E.R. Bills 

As the United States approaches its 250th anniversary, whose stories are celebrated—and whose stories remain buried beneath the surface of official history?

In part 2 of our discussion, host Aya Fubara Eneli sits down with acclaimed Texas journalist and author E.R. Bills to discuss his gripping book, Tell-Tale Texas.

Together, they explore the hidden, unsettling, and often forgotten stories that shaped Texas and the nation—stories of racial violence, injustice, corruption, resistance, disappearances, massacres, and the people history tried to erase. From infamous crimes to suppressed truths, this conversation challenges us to reconsider what freedom has meant in America—and for whom.

As the nation celebrates 250 years of independence, Rethinking Freedom asks:What happens when we tell the whole story?

Join us for the concluding thought-provoking conversation about memory, truth, power, and the importance of preserving the histories that many would rather forget.

📻 Rethinking Freedom airs Mondays at 7:00 AM CST on:KRGN 98.5 FMKVBM 104.7 FM

📺 Watch on the Rethinking Freedom YouTube Channel🎙️ Also available on all major podcast platforms

#RethinkingFreedom #ERTBills #TellTaleTexas #TexasHistory #UntoldHistory #BlackHistory #AmericanHistory #US250 #FreedomStories #HistoricalTruth #HiddenHistory #MemorialDay #Juneteenth #Texas #Podcast #HistoryMatters

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to part two of our conversation with the amazing ER Bills, who um quite frankly, I'm surprised that you can walk around without bodyguards because some of what you have um researched and explored and written about are things that most people in Texas have not heard of. And I would say the power structure probably doesn't want out and definitely doesn't want taught in our schools. So for our guests, I'm Aya Nelly, I have Favara Nelly, I'm your guest, I'm sorry, your host for Rethinking Freedom. Our guest today is ER Bills. He was our guest last week, and we are continuing the conversation. We were talking about his book, Telltale Texas, and we could not get through even, I don't think I think we got through maybe a quarter, maybe something like that. And so we're back back for part two as we continue our summer series, which is the other side of freedom on told histories of America at 250. So um let's jump into um pregnant with death. Well, we could do pregnant with death, we could we could do um Fort Hood slash Fort Cavassos, whichever one you wanted, wherever you want to go. There's so much that you covered in this book.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

You know, I'm I'm easy. Um the uh pregnant with death story was was a really tough one to write. Um again, it just one I stumbled on to, just goofing around Texas. It was a case where in the late 18th century um slavery was over, but uh white people would still they would still take take uh young black men and put them to work, um, not always involuntarily, but once they got them working for them, they couldn't leave. And so this was the case in a community near Mart. And so a few black men were working from Arkansas were working for a family uh in the area, and one of them decided he didn't want to work for these guys anymore, a white family, and there was a black uh, I think his name was Abe Phillips, actually. Yes, he he uh he knew Abe Phillips and he said, you know, I'm sick of working these guys, I don't like the way they treat me, you know, because they weren't slaves anymore, they theoretically had rights, but not to white people in the community, not so much. So so he went and he stayed with uh Abe, and uh this white guy, I can't remember his last name, his first name was George. I've written a lot of this this stuff, I'm sorry. But uh him and his brother show up at Abe's house and they want this kid back, and the kid's like, I want to go, and a gunfight breaks out, and um Abe Wilson is killed, but he kills one of the white men, and so and so that you'd have thought that'd have been the end of it. I never found out what happened to the black to the kid who who didn't want to work for the white family. I assume that he didn't have to go back and work for the family, but uh Abe Wilson dies and he's buried, and and the white citizen dies and he's buried. But about three months, I think three or four months later, somebody, I think his his uh his widow, Mary Phillips, I think was her name, there she's at her house, you know, and they have you know, um, some of her grandkids, one of her, one of her her her children, children, I think an uncle, whatever they're staying there, and and one night somebody comes by and places sticks of dynamite under the house and blows it to smithereens and kills like uh five, six, seven people. I can't even remember, and the dog and one of the dogs, all this stuff. It was a it was an act of terror.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

And uh, and and and obviously in retribution explosives, which we've seen before. We have seen bombings of like the the um 16th Street Baptist Church with the young girls in Birmingham, right? Luther King's house was burned, yeah. Yeah, so yeah, bomb. So yeah, the fairly common, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

Even up into the the 50s here in Fort Worth, uh, when a black family tried to move into predominantly white neighborhood, they they got their car blown up and they got a bomb placed and blew out some of their windows. I mean, this wasn't uncommon for for uh uncomfortable, you know, white folks, white fra white fragility and uh I guess a real lack of humanity in some segments of the white community has been around for a long time, frankly, and I have no problem calling it out. Um, and so this story, when I stumbled onto it, it kind of shocked me. And one of the observers, when they walked up, they saw Mary Phillips's body, you know, contorted and in the and basically burned and melded with the mattress that was blown out of the house, and children smoke in smoking heaps, right? And and this observer said the the scene was pregnant with death, which is very disturbing. Um, nobody was ever charged, the crime was never solved. Um it was just another example of of an act of white terrorism.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

This was in Marked, Texas, M-A-R-T.

SPEAKER_00 5:41

Marked M-A-R-T. It's uh southeast of Waco, about 13 miles. Um, so it was just it was just a shocking, shocking, you know, case. And and the funny thing was, well, it wasn't funny. Nothing about this is funny. I'm sorry. Um I uh um but when I went to do research in the community, I get down there and I there aren't many many members, there weren't many blacks in the community when I got down there as as far as I could see. But I did run into one uh young one young black probably run out of town.

SPEAKER_01 6:23

I mean, you see somebody like that, you I I would get out, but exactly.

SPEAKER_00 6:29

But I ran into uh Quan Cosby, who played football for UT and then went on and played pro. He was he's from there. I was never able to reach him, but I would have liked to have asked him if he'd never heard of this, because I ran into this young black woman there, really, really a teenager, and I asked her if she'd ever heard about this, and she said, No, I've never heard of this. And I went down to the library, and it was run by a white woman, and uh, there was an older white gentleman there, and I asked them if they've never ever heard of it, and they said no, nobody had ever heard of it, it'd completely been lost. And uh, you know, I wound up sending them a copy of the book and they wanted all the information they could get. I mean, it didn't happen in Mart proper, it happened a little south of Mart. And actually, the citizens of Mart, which was predominantly white, they did condemn it. It actually happened in Walls County, just across the county line, but still nothing was ever done about it, and and nobody in the area seemed to know about it. And that's not the only place. I mean, several of these cases I I basically wind up digging into. Nobody today remembers them or weren't or they weren't aware of them or they deny them. Mostly it's the it's the former, they're completely unaware. This history gets covered up and forgotten, and um, you know, conveniently, I guess, you know, for the racists in the area, and um gosh, it just kind of it's very disturbing to me. Um, so that was one of the chapters in the book, and of course, there was the chapter on uh Frank J. Robinson, and then uh there was a bright spot on one of the stories. I have a chapter called For Whom the Oil Tolls, of course, a riff off uh Hemingway's For Whom the Bell Tolls, and I basically discussed Texas tech. Well, they were the Texas company back then, they became Texico, but their support for uh Francisco Franco in the Spanish Civil War and how we sold the fascists, the fascist side, you know, of that war. And uh it basically, you know, Roosevelt didn't want to, you know, didn't want to step in, so they wound up, you know, the freedom fighters who fought the fascists wound up getting help from you know uh the Russian communists, but you know, the the the fascist side got help from Hitler and Mussolini.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

If we'd have stepped into that war and maybe helped the freedom fighters, we may have avoided World War II altogether, and we wouldn't have been caught flat-footed when World War II started because we weren't in the process of what what was guiding that decision, greed?

SPEAKER_00 9:21

Well, in Texas, it was definitely greed. I think the guy who was running the Texas company, Texas Co. Uh Texaco, what became became Texas Co. His name was Tor Guild Reber or something. He was Reber, yes, yeah, Norwegian or something, but he was running the company, and I don't think he had any any problem with strong men and and dictators and fascists.

SPEAKER_01 9:41

He actually, from your from your work, he actually preferred to work with right, right.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

He said that he actually he basically admitted that, but yes, but the broad spot was that even though he flip he left Texas at an early age, there was a black man named Oliver Law, who some say was born in the Matagoria area, he uh migrated to Chicago uh when he was a little older and got involved with unions and stuff like that. And when this Spanish Civil War broke out in Spain, he, like so many others, Langston Hughes, Paul Robeson, um you know, Hemingway, um George Orwell, George Orwell, his real name was Eric Ware. They went to fight with the freedom fighters. It was like this was like a real Alamo, not an Alamo to preserve slavery or preserve or create another slave state. This was like a an I a war of ideals, a war against fascism. Um, and so they went to fight, and Oliver Law became the first black American to lead white troops into battle, members of the the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, which is a wonderful piece of history that again, nobody hardly knows about because nobody hardly very few people talk about that war. Um, but it it's just it's just sort of incredible. Um, he wasn't the only actually, there were several black men and some black women who went over and participated and fought with the freedom fighters. Um, and it's incredible, it's an incredible story, needs more attention. I've I'm thinking about writing about it.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

Needs more attention. So young people looking for things to events, historical happenings to research, there's plenty of work to be done. Um, and these stories need to be told. I did want to point out as we were talking about these lynchings and the lack of political representation and how that's coming back around. Um between 1865 and 1930 in the state of Texas, there their estimate is that there were 557 towns founded by formerly enslaved African Americans. Five hundred and fifty-seven freedom towns, yes. And where are they now? And thus I I bet you, as we go through for the anyone who wants to go back and do some of this research, what happened in these places?

SPEAKER_00 12:17

It's a it's a legitimate question, no doubt. I don't I don't have a lot of expertise in that area, but I'm aware of some of them.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

Um and so anyone watching who says, like, if you're from like ask ask the older people in your community. Because if we we don't ask these questions, sometimes people don't know that. Anyone wants to hear, anyone remembers. And as they die, with there's an African proverb every time uh an elder dies, like a essentially a library dies with them. But there was a place called Freedmanstown, there was Independence Heights, Clarksville, Shankoville, Tamina, Barrett, like what happened to these places? And we must reclaim our stories. Um, so let's go to um quote unquote the great place, which I actually think should be tied to the story about oil and our military.

SPEAKER_00 13:17

But all right, I'll I'll be happy to do that for you. I'll be happy to tie them together. The great place you're talking about Fort Hood.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

Fort Hood that was renamed Fort Cavazos and then under the white nationalist Hexeth has now been renamed Fort Hood again. Because God forbid that we don't give a white man credit for everything. Well, everything good.

SPEAKER_00 13:42

Right. If I actually, if I was the Cavazos family, I would have never let them name that, even though you know the idea of having military installations named after multiculturally is a good idea. But the stuff that was going on at Fort Hood, I wouldn't have wanted my name associated with it because you know the uh basically the problem they had there and what what what what that chapter is ostensibly about is um is some of the um sexual uh abuse and sexual abuse allegations that were happening on the base that nothing was ever done about. And uh what was the title of that chapter? I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 14:26

No, I got it right here. The title of that chapter was um was it critical? Operation response unresponsive, I think.

SPEAKER_00 14:36

Yeah, that's right, unresponsive, um, like like like a dead body. Um, there were all these calls, you know. Uh there were some black victims, there were some white victims, there was a Mexican young Mexican Mexican-American woman, Vanessa Whelan.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

I think.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

Yes, yes, and they were all murdered, and uh, and it wasn't getting any attention, and the the command structure, the brass, were unresponsive to to the stuff that was going on there. Um, and so it was it was kind of incredible how many people had died and how little it had had been done about it. So so that's what I explored in that chapter. But as uh you and I sort of discussed off off air, I had followed Fort Hood for a while because a lot of soldiers get get trained up through Fort Hood, and and to your point, um it's been a while since we had a legitimate military conflict, in my opinion. Of course, another here's another great example of a of a of a maybe Texas wasn't great, but it was a Texas president, you know, Eisenhower, who said in his you know, his uh farewell address, he said, beware the military-industrial complex. You know, they will they have their own motives, they have their own agenda. Well, I think they led us into the Vietnam War, and I think they've led us into every war since. And and these young men and women who go and train at a place like Fort Hood and other bases around Texas and across the country, they're sent off on errands for big oil. I think I mentioned that in the chapter, and and I've talked about it on other occasions. And so you go and you sacrifice uh your your mental stability, or you come back with a wound, or you you make sacrifices, you're away from your family or your kids, and you come back, and not only are you not really celebrated by the populace, but you realize that you've been sent off on an errand for a corporate errand, and and you you've killed basically innocent people, in most cases, civilians, you know, for a profit motive. It it's not sustainable. It's another one of these ideas, you know, that's going to die, that that that oil is limitless, you know, a resource like that, and that that that's the answer to all our problems, which is uh a banner that that Texas waves around like like a some some you know sterilized or sorry, steroid infused mantra. You know, it's you know, it's like an act of asentience. It's it's it's not true, it's a lie, it's a lie, and it's what our a lot of our economy is based on. And so that's what's so sad and pathetic about how our young men and women are used around the world right now. You know, have we done anything but bomb brown people for about 50 years now? Have we done anything else? Have we bombed any white people? It's it's sort of insane and it's sort of obvious what's going on, and we should be called out.

SPEAKER_01 17:56

Obvious to those who want to see and those who care about the humanity of other people. And that's why that's why the language that is being used by the president of the United States of America, the governor of the state of Texas, and so many others, um, is very, very disturbing because once you strip the humanity of people, then anything goes. No, no, you know, no humans involved. And so you're absolutely right. You know, what when America, and I and I have to tread carefully somewhat here, but the truth is the truth. When America talks about other countries being terroristic nations, or we're afraid of anybody else getting a nuclear weapon because they're going to use it, like who has used a nuclear weapon? Who goes and destabilizes other governments? Who is bullying people and and withholding a who voted that there were two countries at the UN that voted against um they took a vote on food being a basic right, a basic human right for everyone. And the United States of America and Israel voted against food being a basic right. Like why? And so some of the statistics you have on this chapter, I just want to point pull some of this out because I know you're writing, you have some books coming out that you should let our our um audience know about. The number of suicides among US service members and veterans. I'm I'm reading from your book over the period, the same period, and I think we're looking at 2023 through, no, let me go back. I think we're looking at 2,000 and three through 2023. So over that 20-year period, I believe, the number of suicides among US service members and veterans over the same period is a staggering 30,177. We you were talking at that point about averaging four suicides per day amongst our service members and our veterans. Now, that doesn't include all of those dealing with extreme mental health issues or the domestic violence cases that also flow out of this as well, and for our quote unquote great country to be so unresponsive to these young people, and many of them come from families where and enlisting in the the military was their pathway to the American dream. So we don't see the children of these congressmen and women necessarily signing up anymore. Now, of course, they've made the draft, I think. Not I think, yeah, the draft everyone, all the males, I think between 18 now and they they increase the year, I think the age, I think it's 37 or 39 or something like that. Yeah. No, no, no, you don't have to sign up for it anymore. It's automatic now. Under hexeth, yes.

SPEAKER_00 21:25

Oh, oh, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:28

I I try not to pay he's uh he's allowed. Uh you know, he's it yeah, uh what he what he says and what he does, I know it has an impact, but he he's a stupefying dolt. Um I think the problem right now in this country, and it's just my opinion, you know, you can say what you want about the experiment, the American experiment, and you can say what you want about were we ever really who we We said we were. I I'm not sure we were, but the idea was that it was a process and it was an experiment. And some of those founding ideals, you know, they were very progressive and very liberal. Due process? Wow. Uh, freedom of speech, freedom of press, all this stuff. It wasn't something that was broadly practiced at that time. So these ideals were were pretty incredible. And the problem is now, I think a lot of Americans don't even believe in them anymore. And we're not even trying to live up to them anymore. They're not even being held up. We're not a great country in the world anymore. We may be the worst license in creation, and we're definitely the biggest terrorist organization. Uh you can, you know, hey, if I upset your listeners, we are. Nobody even comes close. I mean, in the 80s, when I was young, man. Yeah, in the 80s when I was young, man. You know, they got rid of Allende in uh what was that, Chile or Argentina? We we we were we were mucking around in Nicaragua. Now we're destabilizing Somalia. Even when Hillary Clinton was secretary of defense, we'd be destabilizing Honduras, Libya, yeah, Libya, of course. And so, and then we and then we like some of these European countries, except mostly, mostly us, we're creating refugees in every direction, and we complain about them leaving their homes, yes, you know, you know, Iraq.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

But we we don't have any more. Well, I shouldn't say we don't have any more, it just seems like it's it seems more difficult for people to engage in critical thinking and to connect the dots. But then again, we also have a media and a propaganda machine that is doing an incredible job of keeping people distracted, right? But also feeding people a lot of lies.

SPEAKER_00 23:59

And who can blame them? I mean, you when you graduate college, you want to have a good job, or you want to have think maybe you want to buy a house, you get caught up in chasing material things, or you have a family and you're raising them, you don't have a lot of time to do a lot of independent thinking. And then if you have news organizations that are just spouting propaganda left and right or not reporting the whole story, how do you inform yourself? It's it's a really losing situation for basic humanity in the United States right now, you know. And they say, you know, they want this, they have this fallback that that, you know, going to church or or you know, whatever, god God'll save us, you know, and that you know, you can't worry about the planet, it's in God's hands, or this, that, and the other. Um, it's there's a level of inanity. Again, I run out of nomenclature in so many different directions to describe exactly what's what's happening and what people are up to. And it's it's so rare that you have an intelligent conversation about all these forces, you know, the kind of conversation I would argue that we're having. You know, it's not just one thing, it's not just racism, it's not just, you know, uh the military-industrial complex, it's a lack of faith in institutions. Young people today, they look around, I don't think they're much impressed with what we've left them with, and uh, and I don't blame them. And and they try to inform themselves, and now you have wholesale new jet news agencies that that spout the the boldest prevarications about what's happening. For example, I have a son who lives in Portland, and Trump went on and on about the armed instigators and the terrorists in Portland. There are none, there are none. There's a bunch of goofy people running around in animal uniforms. My son lives there, it's a complete fabrication, and and it's just the latest in a long line of them, you know, that uh people in our government.

SPEAKER_01 26:00

Well, what could we expect from the man who announced his presidency and chose Waco in particular, and on a particular date as well, to correct correct coincide with um was it David Koresh and the Davidian um yeah, the branch Davidian conference. Yeah. So, you know, there's so much that we've touched upon and so much that we'll still touch upon. We're talking about the constitution and the ideals of the United States of America constitution and whether people still even buy to it. I don't even know if we're still teaching it or teaching it in in its correct form. We know it was flawed from the beginning because certainly you can't talk about all human beings, all men are created equal, and at the same time disenfranchised. First of all, you stole the land from the Native Americans, you could, you know, murder, killed, whatever, enslaved, rape.

SPEAKER_00 26:52

A three-fifths clause.

SPEAKER_01 26:54

Yes, yeah, which was the original gerrymandering. Right, right. And then you have the electoral college, which is a whole nother level of racial gerrymandering as well. And it looks like this country wants to, at least white, some white people in this company, some in this country, maybe that's certainly the oligarchs and the white nationalists, want to create some sort of apathy here in America, where it's like, okay, if we cannot, I mean, we're gonna kick out as many as we can, we're gonna imprison as many as we can, um, and we're gonna force white women to have more babies, but if we can't totally reverse these numbers, at least even if we're the numerical minority, we're gonna make sure that we have all the political power. Um, but talking about constitutions and progressive ideas, there's actually a constitution in the area now known as Mali, was where the Mali Empire was that was from 1235 CE. And it was the Kurkan Fuga Empire Charter. And they were that that constitution actually covered a great deal of what we see in the United States of America's constitution in terms of due process and humanity and people's rights and so on and so forth. And so just how the social organization, the responsibilities amongst the different people, and protections for vulnerable groups. So this was certainly an experiment worth, you know, pursuing, but it looks like it has been abandoned. But the question is, what are the rest of us going to do who do not like the direction the country is going in? I wanted to point out some things about the great place while we're on it. And I don't know if there's anything else you want to say about some of your research on the great place. So, first it was named for um the Confederate general John Bellhood. And I suppose the Bell County is named after him, or was there another Bell?

SPEAKER_00 28:53

Yes, ma'am.

SPEAKER_01 28:53

Imagine that. And so when people say, Oh, why is there Black History Month or Hispanic History Month or Latin American history month? I'm like, every day is White History Month. Literally just calling the names of towns and roads in my area. I am celebrating the accomplishment or acknowledging some white person. But anyway, um, so it was name renamed Fort Cavazos, and it was named after a four-star general who's of Hispanic origin. And Hexeth comes in and he decides to rename it again, but he wanted it to stay as Hood. So they did all of this work to go and find the name of someone who ended up with Hood. So they renamed it after Robert B. Hood.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

I don't know him.

SPEAKER_01 29:49

He's um a World War I officer, and he was a recipient of a Distinguished Service Cross. So not to the level of a force.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 30:01

Any white man would do. Right. We just can't name it after one of you lesser human beings. But some of the scandals that those of us who are in central Texas may be aware of, but again, people are so inundated with their lives. We we we and and and things are come coming at us so quickly, I think we're not paying as much attention. So you definitely mentioned the murder of Vanessa Guyen um 2020. Of course, there has been this underlying sexual harassment and assault culture, allegedly, but an independent army investigation said, and in in quotes, they said this it is a permissive environment for sexual harassment and assault. And then they went on in with widespread um fear of retaliation. And then, of course, the rash of soldier deaths and disappearances. I don't know if you want to cover some of the names that you have in the book. Um, and then the leadership failures in terms of investigations, the suicide crisis. There's also been drug trafficking, armed problems, gang activity, a lot of domestic violence. Of course, in 2009, which is the year I moved to Texas, we had um Nadal Hassan, who killed 13 people and wounded more than 30 on that base. And then the latest one that I'm aware of anyway is the OBGYN abuse scandal, where Major Blaine McGraw has been charged with dozens of counts involving alleged secret recordings and inappropriate examinations of patients at the military medical center. The case has been described by some attorneys as potentially one of the military's largest sexual misconduct scandals involving a physician. So, what else would you like to say about this chapter that you wrote?

SPEAKER_00 31:55

Um there's there's been a lot of stuff going on there that um it's obviously not a great place. It's I don't know if it's ever been a great place, but um the only as far as I know, the only great things that I'm well, there's probably been a lot. Sorry, if you're if you've served in the military, there's probably been some great friendships achieved, and some some people have some learned some things, no questions, but the I know of two great events, in my opinion, that happened there, and that I'm I'm I'm proud they happened in Texas. And the first one was the Fort Hood III, that was during the Vietnam War, I think that was early on, '66, and three soldiers, a Hispanic soldier, a black soldier, and a white soldier refused to uh deploy to Vietnam. That was a big story, a big story around the country, and that's more well known. But the lesser known story happened in 1968 with the Fort Hood 43, and I don't remember the exact dates, it was uh August of 68, I think. And uh the year before, after Martin Luther King, or or several months before, when Martin Luther King was assassinated, they had sent Fort Hood troops up there up somewhere to help, um, which what our president is doing now, I guess, um, to help with crowd control or quash or or sort of pacify mobs, and people had gotten killed. So the Democratic National Convention was gonna be in, was that Chicago that year? I think it was in Bill Daly. Was it Mayor Daly?

SPEAKER_01 33:32

Yeah, I believe so. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 33:34

Yeah, yeah. And so they were gonna send soldiers who returned from Vietnam instead of redeploying to Vietnam, they were gonna be sent to Chicago to help do crowd control and control, you know, the protesters and all that. And 60 something black soldiers at Fort Hood stood up and said, Look, we're not comfortable with this. You know, we we can't, we don't mind. Hey, you've sent us overseas, you know, we don't mind. We some of us have fought in the war, but being sent back uh uh here on American soil to to uh to try to quell the protests and and possibly force you know other other blacks in un underprivileged and impoverished communities protest about their plot, we are not on board with that. And so the next morning at Revelae, they were all still at Revelie, they were all sitting there, and you know, some brass came out and told them, you know, disperse or you're gonna be punished. And 17 or so left, and 43 stayed, and uh they became known as the Fort Hood 43 because they refused to deploy to uh to take up arms or uh be involved in policing their their fellow American citizens. It was a huge, it was a big deal. Now the military covered it up, but didn't get a lot of coverage, and and they got as little of coverage as the military could achieve because it happened during the Vietnam War and during racial unrest there in the 60s, and but it was a very, very brave stand. And and and after it all concluded, you know, most of the participants participants were busted down in ranks, received you know, cuts, uh, two-thirds cut to their pay, you know, some sentences of hard labor, all this crazy stuff. But it's kind of a an important chapter in civil rights, just completely completely ignored and forgotten. And it happened at Fort Hood. It's one of the great things, in my opinion, that happened there, one of the bravest things that ever happened there. Hey, go and follow following orders. That's what sort of your job is. That's what it's what's expected of you. And my lesson or my advice to soldiers today would be not unlike you know what it was then. You know, you you have a conscience, you may have a duty, but in sometimes your conscience, it needs to it needs to help you navigate your way forward and mitigate some of these orders. I think it's a it's a vile uh misapplication of American soldiers to police American cities, uh, especially uh sanctuary cities. And I think it's a vile misapplication of American forces to send them overseas to you know to uh obliterate, you know, denigrated uh populations already, and and and and help uh abscond with their natural resources. It's sort of on its face, you know, it's evil. And I'm not the suicide rate troubles me, but it doesn't surprise me. If I'd have been sent over there and I'd have and I'd have uh brutalized or or uh you know murdered innocent civilians and even some cases combatants in these countries, it would have it would be really troubling, you know, uh to return home from my deployment and realize that it was all not a fool's errand, but a corporate errand, or a military and industrial complex errand, or an errand of empire. It wasn't about defending my country or even defending freedom in the world. That that's what we're supposed to stand for.

SPEAKER_01 37:19

But we don't, you know, we're not about making, we're not about freeing people, we're about bleeding people, especially people who are that and now for those same service men and women who are realizing under this particular regime that they will not be given their due for their service. And so when a list of um generals are sent up um for promotion, and the women and the black people on the list are the ones eliminated when you see so many demotions or you know, firings or forced retirements taking place, and so many of them are quote unquote non-white and women. You wonder, okay, so what is this service for? Because even after the sacrifice, I will not be given my just due.

SPEAKER_00 38:19

Um the whole administration, practically everything they take on or they champion it is patently un-American. You know, we we left the British Empire, you know, taxation without representation and sort of equal or fair representation became a so so see see you're saying it's patently if you're saying it's patently un-American.

SPEAKER_01 38:42

I would say it is patently American, it's just not the America that they claimed they were going to the experiment, it's not the ideals, we're not observing the idea. But it is exactly what America has always been.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

We have, yes, we it is true, okay. I I'll tell you what, when I was so so the the way this chapter is discussed, the Frank, the boy, you'll I think you'll agree with me. Um, so I wound up working on this chapter about uh Frank J. Robinson in Palestine with uh a radio host for Texas Public Radio in San Antonio, David Martin Davies. And so one day we're dealing with this guy, and and he gets flustered and he asked the guy, he said, Well, that's that's you're a traitor. That's you know, that's an act of treachery or blah blah blah. Because he was, I don't remember what he was talking about, but but I told him, I said, you know, actually, I said, David, I said, I'm not sure that's exactly true. And you know, you it was actually a black guy he was talking to uh about it. Um, and I don't remember the the details, but the guy was sort of defending the Confederacy, it's a very strange situation. Um, but I said, you know, that's I said, you're you may be looking at that wrong way around. Technically, who was constitutionally wrong when the Civil War started? It wasn't the Confederacy. Slavery was laid out in our founding documents, the three-fifths clause, you know, the Constitution and the U.S. government promoted slavery, and so the treachery technically came from the north, the people that wanted to liberate the slaves or end slavery. So even from the beginning, it was flawed. You know, that's a terribly controversial.

SPEAKER_01 40:35

If you're looking at it from a lens of humanity, or if you're looking at it from the lens of man-made laws, or capitalism. Oh, capitalism, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 40:45

So, and I told him that. I said, So, you know, that's you may be, I said, I'm not trying to mince words, and I'm not trying to be offensive because he he knew I was a pretty progressive and liberal guy, but it's like, you know, the the the South, they had a case, you know, the three-fifths clause, all that stuff. They had a real case for what they had a case for in humanity, and so but but past that, you know, you know, these ideas, of course, we're not all created equal. You're a beautiful woman. I'm not I'm not a beautiful woman, and not even a beautiful man. I don't know how tall you are, but I'm like five nine, I'm not six ten. I can't, you know, I was I was pretty quick, pretty good football player, pretty good rugby player, but we're not all created equal, okay?

SPEAKER_01 41:26

But this idea it just can't it depends on your definition of equal, as in we all have value.

SPEAKER_00 41:32

We do have value, but we're not all created equal. The idea is that everybody has an equal opportunity, that it's a level playing field, everybody gets an equal chance to to pursue, you know, life, liberty, you know, and happiness, all that. It's an idea that we literally, in this American experiment, which, as you and I both of our acknowledged, you know, the the founding documents, they were all a little flawed, but this experiment, we're trying by very by by stating this stuff, we're trying to tease it in existence. And we go through elementary school and we hear these these, you know, all men are created equal. We hear this, we hear that. It doesn't mention women, you know, it, you know, all this, but you know, we we just sort of wax over, you know, slide across that, and we think about it in terms and we try to still tease it. When I grew up, it was a process, and you you still, in a way, it's like our society was still trying to tease it into existence. This idea of equality, this idea of a better place of people getting a fair shake in court, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 42:38

They were ideals to live up to, but it's like now people aren't even trying to live up to some some some there are there are there are still many who are trying, they're just being drowned out by all the money from the they're not in our government. No, no, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:54

Um especially in the Texas legislature, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:58

Clearly, the the workers to even bring about the voters the 1965 voter right uh voting rights act. There are those of us who are still working, um, but yes, the oligarchs, the military industrial complex, that they're into that doctor, and and what did you call it?

SPEAKER_00 43:19

The dollar aristocracy is that was that a term in the book in that book, the inheritors, that's what the guy caught referred to him as. He said the dollar aristocracy. Yeah, that's what it was, and that's this is 1940, he was complaining about this, and that's why the book got banned. But you referred earlier, you were talking about that OBYN, that doctor, yeah, O B N. Um, you know, that that's that's an and you also mentioned you know, white women having abortions. Yeah, that that's another important point, and I've written about that before. If if mostly just black and Hispanic women were having abortions, there'd be abortion abortion kits available at every white. Whataburger drive-thru. But the fact is, it's mostly white women. And I'll go, I'll go a step further. If men could get pregnant, there'd be abortion kits available at every Whataburger drive-thru. It is utterly asinine. It is it it in I guess people aren't smart enough for their intelligence to be insulted, but it should insult their intelligence. You know, this this play at controlling at controlling women and limiting limiting their their freedoms. If it was a man, there'd be no question.

SPEAKER_01 44:34

Just from a biological perspective, a woman is fertile, what, two, three days out of the month, maybe, and can only have one child every nine to ten months.

SPEAKER_00 44:47

Unless it's 20 months.

SPEAKER_01 44:48

Unless it's I mean, you know what? Let me rephrase, can only get pregnant.

SPEAKER_00 44:52

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 44:54

Once every nine, ten months. A man, on the other hand, can literally impregnate 50 people today if he wants to, and do that every single day for the next. So that the idea that we should be the ones who are police, but not men, is is ridiculous.

SPEAKER_00 45:13

But um it's it's absolutely ludicrous, of course.

SPEAKER_01 45:16

It is. There's some really important work that you've been doing that I think some of our listeners would want to hear about. I know I want to hear about it because it is work that should be replicated and it concerns these markers. So tell us about some of we've got about 14 or so minutes. Tell us about some of the work you've done with these markers, where they're showing up, what is coming down the pipeline. And for those who are interested in researching, already have researched information in their areas and want to make sure that we have these historical markers up, what steps should they take?

SPEAKER_00 45:52

Okay, well, um, I'll go over the steps first. Um, I think the deadline, and I I forgot to look it up, but it seems like it's like March 15th to like June or something or May. I will look that up. But for you to turn in applications, you have to do um you have to do proper research of the subject and you have to uh find a location. If it's on something like a a courtyard, uh sorry, courthouse square, you have to have the county's commission. Now, if it's out on a road, a highway, that's state or federal. If there's a right-of-way or it's open, you don't have to have anybody's permission. You just got to have approval from the county historical commission. And then their their approval has to be seconded by the state historical commission. And so it's not really that tough to do. It needs to be, and this, you know, what's what's proper, what's relevant, what needs to be done. Those are all debates to have with the uh with the county historical commissions. Now, in the case of the Slopham Massacre Historical Marker, the County Historical Commission said it's negative history, there's no reason to have a marker, you know, uh talking about this, and it'll reduce our property value and it'll make people think less of us or whatever. They threw everything in the book at us trying to stop us, and eventually, Constance Holly Juade, a descendant of this uh victims of this local massacre, the one who authored the application itself. I helped, I helped her, I worked with her. Um, she went around the county and directly to the state. Now to the state historical commission. And the state historical mission kind of slapped Anderson County around and made them fall in line. Now, that was in 2015. I doubt that would happen now. You know, fascists, I think, run well, yeah, I'm just it's different now. Um but but you you you submit it to the uh county historical commission and they tell you what they think needs to be changed or what needs to be improved or or what needs what they want to see, whether it's uh documented um you know uh reports or or diaries or evidence or um and you you you get it back to them and you get all that done, and then eventually if they prove it, then there are different kinds of markers you can get and you have to get those paid for. Now there's an undertold marker program that will help you do that, especially if it's historically uh ignored or unacknowledged history. Constance and I chose not to go through them because they take longer, and we chose to take this the Anderson County on you just head to head, just try to bum rush them and and and build up media support. And essentially, you know, down to the wire, we we weren't we weren't sure we'd be able to pull it off, and uh, but in the end we did, and it really opened it up to a to a lot of groups around Texas who were trying to pursue these kinds of markers, which was very gratifying. But um, I think it's important for these markers to be placed because not everybody in our community. Okay, so when I was growing up, I had really enlightened parents. Um, I never heard the N-word around my house. If you wanted my background, you didn't ask for it. Um, blue class white folks here in Fort Worth, um, they were really different. Um I was not saddled with the terrible baggage of racism. You know, they didn't see the world that way. In fact, my dad practically shamed me with with my with with our whiteness. He said, he said to me one time, he said, you don't realize you think you've got it tough. He said, You've you've had the the winning lottery ticket since the day you were born. You're white, you're a white man, you're gonna be a white man in the 20th century. You've had it easier than anybody else around. And that was sobering. You know, that got my attention because I I realized that just wasn't the case for so many people um around the world, not just here in the United States, um, but also in my community. Um so I but I grew up around people that had heard the N-word in their household and and didn't watch Roots when it was aired in the 70s or whatever. They were just totally clueless, and and they've gone on to become the biggest supporters of of the the administration today. It's sad. Very few of them, most of us are stuffed with our political beliefs and our our religious beliefs, like Thanksgiving turkeys. They just they they they expose us to these these things and then they pop us in the oven and betty crocker us up.

SPEAKER_01 51:10

Very few transcend what they're originally programmed with, and so we have which is why what the daughters of the confederacy did, confederates did with the lost cause exactly impacting the curriculum and the way that the MAGA Republicans and the white nationalists have a stronghold on what's being taught in schools today really should concern us all. Because it concerns. Teachers are being muzzled because the other way that all of this oppression has been has flourished is the reprisals. Maybe we're not physically burning people at the stake, but there are other ways that we're getting people out of jobs, we're making life really difficult for them, we're closing up opportunities. Of course, we see what Elon Musk and um so-called dojo, whatever the indiscriminate firings, quote unquote based on DEI, which is really the discrimination because you targeted certain groups of people. And so when people sit back and don't get involved in their local politics and don't try to vote out these folk, thinking, oh, well, it's not that bad. No, because indoctrination is happening in the cradle, literally, and the schools are one of the ways that we can begin to combat it, but if we also abdicate responsibility there, we are truly marching with the death cult.

SPEAKER_00 52:53

That's right. And you alluded to it earlier, the Texas Pledge of Allegiance. What is that? But you know, that the Daughters of Confederacy here in Texas in 1915. Now, I wrote about this, I don't know, I'll I'll send you the editorial, I don't know, it's been probably a year ago, in a in a column called Cacistocracy, which is spelled KKK A S, you know, cacistocracy. Basically in 1915, they had a big meeting and got together somewhere here in Texas, and they said, the only way that we can protect the truth is with strict censorship. And that was their mission statement for the public education here in a system here in Texas. But it's it's it's like like I said, utterly inane. The only way we can protect the freedom is with strict sense, or sorry, the only way we can protect the truth, you know, is with strict censorship. Whose truth? You know, right? It's not new, it's nothing new, it's gone on all this time, and I'll tell you, that was another light bulb moment for me as you learn all this stuff in school and and you go off to college and you you start learning. Well, hey, that's not exactly what I was told, and things are different, you know, or at least you used to get that in a in a college education.

SPEAKER_01 54:08

I'm a little worried about that these days, but well, they're closing, they're closing down departments and programs and censoring teachers, yes, you know, professors, yes.

SPEAKER_00 54:18

You know, the the question I have is okay, so it's very strange how much it appeals to Americans because there is nothing, there is hardly anything. Okay, so I would take issue with you, but I'm talking about the ideals, not the actual practice. We're talking about American ideals because we know what it says at the base of the Statue of Liberty. Send us your tired and huddled masses, it invites immigrants, all that stuff. Ideals, ideals, okay. What ideal will it take for them to ignore or or violate? What's it finally going to take for American people to realize actually how un-American, or at least in terms of our ideals, how how so far off we are from who we were were aspiring to be. Now, I'll I'll quote another African uh Algeria, uh Albert Camus, one of my heroes. Uh I'll I'll sum up a quote he said that's always stuck with me. He said, basically, and and the translations vary, but I'm going to paraphrase it. He said, There's no such thing as evil, there's only ignorance. And good intentions can be as destructive as bad intentions if they're not informed. And basically, it's being universally applied. You know, the these people are applying uh you know bad ideas, as Jasmine Crockett alluded to, theoretically, under with good intentions. I'm not even sure some of the intentions are good, but under the auspices of good intentions.

SPEAKER_01 56:04

I mean, if if you see white nationalism as good, if you see the patriarchy as good, then yes, you definitely have gonna. I'm we are we are protecting the American family, and then they and then they totally forget.

SPEAKER_00 56:15

You know, what is what okay? So what is our national motto? What is it? Do you remember in Latin?

SPEAKER_01 56:24

No, what is it?

SPEAKER_00 56:25

E pluribus unum.

SPEAKER_01 56:27

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 56:28

Out of one many, out of one many, not out of one, not one out of one, one out of many, you know. It's who what happened?

SPEAKER_01 56:38

I mean, these were that was that was applied to a particular one, not all of these many that are talking we're talking about that.

SPEAKER_00 56:46

I mean but now, I mean, if there was this idea when you're growing up, you're like, oh, you know, and you're trying, you're saying, yeah, it's an experiment, it's a process, and now we're not even bothered, we're not even trying to faint.

SPEAKER_01 56:58

We're not bothered. Actually, if you listen to Mark Rubio's speech, um, I think in Germany, he basically said, Let's go back to the good old days where we were seeking to expand our empire, and we shouldn't feel any guilt for any of the things that we do. We should be very proud about expanding our empire.

SPEAKER_00 57:16

He's uh insufferable tosspot, in my opinion. He uh he uh he uh for a guy who had well, he's descended from uh I think he's descended from the uh oh he's rewriting his bourgeoisie of humor.

SPEAKER_01 57:35

He he he apparently has not he's not Latino in any way. He is he is from uh I think he's claiming Spain and where neither is neither is Ted Cruz now. I mean he um that we but you know what and and this is what I want to leave with our um listeners as we continue with the untold histories of America at two at 250 years. The idea is there's a lot for us to learn. If we are informed, we can make better decisions. It's important to teach the young ones, um, buy the book, support those who are helping to tell these stories and tell the stories yourself and then put into action what you're learning, right? So it's not just coming here and I we appreciate all of you who watch. We thank you. We're almost at 18,000 subscribers right now. If you haven't subscribed, go ahead and hit that like button, share, subscribe, hit the notification bell, all of those good things. But what we're really trying to do here is it's rethinking freedom. What does freedom mean? How do we think critically about the things that we're consuming and the actions we're taking so that we can create the world that we want to live in? So, Mr. Bills, 30 seconds. Any last words for us?

SPEAKER_00 58:53

No, I uh I I appreciate you having me on. I mean, it really I'm not used to uh such uh an enlightened conversation, frankly. Um, the dumbing down um that's occurred over the last especially 20 or 30 years, uh, with a with a few variations, but especially in the last two or three, it's it's it's very debilitating. It's hard for people to get their head around, but gosh, just binge watch a little less, think a little more, maybe grab a book. I think change is possible, but it's gonna take people a little more committed, people like you, and I appreciate what you do.

SPEAKER_01 59:34

And I am so grateful for you. I look forward to working with you. I am going to be in contact regarding this marker for Henry Gentry. Um, the window is October. We'll find out.

SPEAKER_00 59:45

You'll you'll get an email from me October through November.

SPEAKER_01 59:48

So I will be in contact. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:50

Well, I'm gonna verify that and I will be in touch anyway. Um, enjoy your weekend.

SPEAKER_01 59:56

Thank you so much. And to all our listeners, thank you, and we'll see you back next week. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:01

Thank you, man.