HFF26 Discover Fringe Industry Event: What's Next After Fringe Panel

PRE ROLL Artlist Musical Logos - Positive Persistent Pluck Sequence 2

OPENING MUSIC IS BY MILANO - 'On the Move'

WEBSITE: https://www.hollywoodfringe.org

INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/hollywoodfringe/

YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/@HollywoodFringe

Transcript

SPEAKER_07 0:36

Hi live stream. Um, we're gonna start in a second. Um, I think we're gonna hold for five. I'm going to be on my laptop with you in the chat in a second. Uh checking those audio levels, but welcome. Welcome to the uh the industry panel. Okay. See you soon.

SPEAKER_05 4:02

I'm gonna give the three of us can share a mic on the side, and I'm gonna give them all the mic over here and pass it. Um, I'm ready to answer the chunk, and we don't need to go down the line. Bobby, are we alive? We're live, we can lie. That's why it looks a mic's gonna go. Hello, Hollywood Christ! How are we feeling? Yeah? Has anyone finished their fringe run? Congratulations. And now the rest of us are just at the tail end. Um, for anyone who doesn't know, my name is Lois. My pronouns are she, her, a visual description. I'm a white woman with mid-length blonde hair, currently wearing an all-black ensemble, and I'm uh the co-director here at Hollywood Fringe. Today is all about what's next. Um, because y'all have just or are almost done accomplishing an amazing thing. You're bringing a show to new audiences, you're engaging with new artist communities. So now this panel is meant to start to get the wheels turning on what could potentially be next. Because the whole point of Hollywood Fringe in our minds is very much to be a launch pad, uh, because we know that fringe in general is not necessarily a sustainable income. Uh, so we want to start to get all of our brilliant artists thinking about what is next because you need to do things pre- and post-festival. Um, so with that, I'm gonna do a land acknowledgement and then we'll jump in with our brilliant panelists. Uh the Hollywood Fringe acknowledges we are on the unceded lands of the Gabrielino, Tongva, and Chumash peoples. Our statement serves as a practice as we commit to furthering our connection to Indigenous communities past, present, and emerging. All right, panelists, thank you so much for joining us today. As I sit on this box, um, I'm gonna have y'all introduce yourselves to jump in, uh, name, pronouns, uh, the role at the organization or company uh that you're affiliated, and then a little bit about how you are connected to the fringe or greater Los Angeles or New York uh ecosystem.

SPEAKER_04 6:03

Oh awesome, thank you. Uh hi everybody, I'm Larry Lebeau. I'm the executive director at New Filmmakers Los Angeles. My pronouns are he, him, and um I'm a white male, and I'm dressed pretty casually, and uh I'm sitting next to someone way better looking than me, and I will hand it off.

SPEAKER_11 6:24

Uh my name is Darren Lee Cole, and I my pronouns are he, him. I'm a hopefully well-preserved white male. Uh, and I serve as the executive uh producing director of Soho Playhouse in New York City. And in that capacity, I also chair the International Fringe Encore Series, which we'll tell you more about. And I'm sitting next to somebody way more attractive than me.

SPEAKER_06 6:56

Hey everybody, I'm Katie Dammers. I'm the deputy director and chief curator of performing arts at Redcat. That's the Roy and Edna Disney CalArts Theater here in LA. We're in downtown in the Walt Disney concert hall. I use she, her pronouns. I'm a white woman with short brown curly hair wearing a black dress, and I'll pass it on.

SPEAKER_03 7:18

Hello, everyone. My name is Jonathan Munoz Pru. I use he, him pronouns. I am a Latino man with short dark hair and a sort of floral uh buttoned-down shirt. I'm the producing artistic director at the Los Angeles LGBT Center, where I lead the Lily Tomlin Jane Wagner Cultural Art Center. Uh, we have four venues, uh, in which include two theaters, an outdoor stage, and uh uh art gallery. And we do about 200 performances a year that welcome about 10 to 12,000 community members. So um outside of my curatorial and producer role, I have been a director in the fringe festival many, many years ago. So I've I've been in this seat and I I uh appreciate the journey and the challenge and the play of it. So happy to be here.

SPEAKER_05 8:03

Yeah, thanks y'all. All right, we're gonna dive in because we only have an hour, which is never enough time for these things. Uh, but really quick, I do want to do an audience check. Can we hear okay? Oh, okay, maybe a little a little bit higher on the panel, myself included. Okay, thank y'all. All right, so uh I would love to know what does your scouting process look like during a festival like Hollywood Fringe? Um, are you actively looking for a complete, finished, like fully cooked product or show, or are you aiming to uh grab onto something that's a little more in development that you can run with as well?

SPEAKER_11 8:36

I'll start. Uh sort of all the above of that. Uh so the International Fringe Encore Series is designed actually specifically to give fringe shows uh not an extension, not a horizontal move uh or a lateral move. We want to give shows a vertical move. So our organization is put together to scout fringe festivals and find shows that don't have to be completely cooked. Uh in fact, we uh a medium, uh although the more cooked the better, because I'm trying to see if that will play like next season, for example, in New York. And there and there has to be enough meat on the bones uh beyond just the skeletal outline of an idea, is what we're looking for. Um but also we're very lucky to have even in this audience some artists that have worked with us in the past. Dwayne is here, and Allie is here, and John are are here. So I always recommend artists talk to other artists uh about getting the information uh of what series are like and what programs are like. Uh but yes, we're uh if that answers the direct question.

SPEAKER_06 9:54

Yeah, I'll say when I come to a festival like this, I'm often looking for promise. Um, because we're based here in LA, it's not impossible that we would take a show that already does an evening length run and then bring it to another part of LA, but it's less likely. So I'm more looking for artists that show incredible capacity for what we call a catalytic encounter. So for them to come to Red Cat, maybe be part of our new original work series, which is a great commissioning platform that we have. It happens every November and it's an application-based. So it's a great way for me to get to know artists. So then if you apply to this program, I can say, oh yeah, I trust that they can take something full term, get it to stage, be a great performer, have strong conceptual ideas, and really have a professionalism that we are looking for to then take work to the next level in a different project that would maybe be your next thing. So one thing I always say to artists is you might be here doing a full length of one thing, but make sure you have in your back pocket your idea for your next thing.

SPEAKER_05 11:00

Can I ask a follow-up question on that? Because we do get a lot of questions about new works. Um, so let's say a show premiered at Hollywood Fringe, would you still consider that in a new works application?

unknown 11:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 11:11

I would specific to that program. But one thing I would need you to articulate super clearly is how you would evolve it. Because we look to have Now Festival be this moment of great growth for people. So if you've already done a 65-minute incredible performance, I need to hear from you of gosh, this was three 20-minute vignettes. I want to take vignette number two, increase the production value, and I'm gonna add an additional secondary character. So I really need to know how you're gonna push it forward in a big way. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 11:49

Um first acknowledging uh I'll I'll acknowledge that all organizations are gonna be looking for a different thing, right? So if there are institutions or people you want to work with, um, I would encourage you to reach out to them, introduce yourself, and not necessarily begin with a pitch, because a pitch is not gonna be successful unless it is for that uh person, unless it's for that organization. So I would encourage you to build a relationship and find out what is their mission, what are your objectives, what does success look like to you, what relationships have gone well, and then you can take that riddle and you can look at your portfolio of artists and work and your find out if you're a match and how can you tailor your project to meet the need of the organization. So for us specifically, we uh don't produce runs of shows right now uh simply because it's a challenging uh budgetary uh political landscape for queer folks. Um so we present one night only performances. But we present we offer that really in a residency package. So uh in exchange for, well not in exchange for, but we uh offer free rehearsal space that culminates in a public performance. So we're looking for artists for whom that is a value add. A lot if you if all you want is a run, then uh we're not gonna be a match. But if you're looking for space to develop, to iterate, and then test something out on an audience, it could be a match. The other thing we're looking for, uh, because it's this tension, this paradox of wanting to serve and invest in artists, but also uh serve and invest in our audiences. So uh every performance we do of the 200 we do, we will lose money. So we lose money on every turning the lights on, staffing it, opening up parking, we lose money every minute we're open. So we want to know that there's an actual audience community demand to see your work. Not because we want to make money, but we need to know that we have some support in that investment and we're not losing every dollar. We're making something back. So, not to go so business-y so early, but understanding there's a lot to that point of it, but we we want to know that your show, there's an appetite for your show. I want to know that you've, you know, sold out some shows or or whatever, so that we're not just otherwise we just give you free space. But if we're gonna invest in the people and and the staffing to take tickets and open the theater, we wanna know that we're we're actually gonna be serving X amount of people. And just to get really granular about it, um, we do a we used to do a lot of co-productions. So we have a lot of data about the average audience size for theaters, uh 99 seat theaters in Los Angeles. The average audience size between 2021 and now is only 35 people per night. Uh pretty small. So we want to know that you're gonna come in at like 35 or more, right? So it's not a huge lift, but we want to be able to get granular in that conversation.

SPEAKER_05 14:54

Yeah. And I think like CoPro, I think so often just gets kind of ignored, but it really is a co-production. Like both the artist and the venue or the producing organization, it's a team effort. And so both parties have to come to the table ready to engage audiences and build those houses.

SPEAKER_03 15:09

I'll just say very quickly, yeah, jumping on the professionalism and and and that sharing. Um, we're looking for folks who we want to work with. So think about how you email us, how you call us, how you use our time. Um do not send us an email every day. I mean, our our our inboxes are such that I'll probably get back to you in a month. Um, and that's just the cadence of workflow. So know that, and anything that you do to disrupt that is not gonna work in your favor.

SPEAKER_05 15:42

Oh, it's uh it is such a small industry and not just in like Los Angeles, but across the globe, y'all like kindness first. The your reputation is always directly in front of you. And so this is such a small community, and so knowing that like in how you engage not just with industry members like the people up here, but with each other, because also there's so many industry members that are fellow artists and or know other venues or bookers, and so like just walking in kindness is always gonna do you more favors. Um, New Filmmakers LA, I wanna I wanna take a chance to talk from stage to film or stage to screen. What do you look for when you're out seeing theater as the potential uh for going from stage onto the screen?

SPEAKER_04 16:24

Yeah, I mean, for for us, you know, what I saw today in just I think less than an hour was incredible. The the five minute, there were five minutes, right? Like I was taken on a journey of all kinds of different characters, all kinds of different performances. And you coming from a film organization are reminded of just like the level of talent that is alive in LA. Um, whether that's talent from Canada that's here with us, or talent that's here from Australia with us. Um it's really, really phenomenal. And the way that just watching the shows today, you could see a lot of those, a lot of those performances, a lot of that content translating to film or to TV, I think is huge. Um, we have so many filmmakers, of course, obviously, people who work in craft roles on crews, on films, of course, performers that are working in TV and film that come through projects at our festival. So I think like the opportunity is huge for um theater performers to take, to take shows and make them exponentially larger in reach by putting them on film or making them as pilots for for potential TV pilots that they w might want to pitch around. Um, so we have a lot of people that work in between the two spaces. And um I think it's I think it's we're I think many of you, if I asked you to raise your hands how many people are also working in film, I would assume there's a lot of you who are also working in film. So um I think there are two complementary um spaces in the creative space that we definitely want to be a bridge with, and we've been really lucky to work with Hollywood Fringe over the last few years. And so yeah.

SPEAKER_05 18:08

Yeah, and just uh to dive in a little deeper on that, um, because like there's been a shift in our industry. I don't think anyone um can sit here and pretend the film industry is not going through a hard time. Uh, do you see a shift in more ideas coming from stage um than starting in like a filmed pilot or a filmed production?

SPEAKER_04 18:26

Yeah, I'll say that that's something that comes up all the time where you're when you're talking with even vendors in the film space, not just creatives in the film space or performers in the film space, you're not seeing a lion's share of that come from just film anymore or just TV. You're hearing about people who are like, well, I'm splitting, making my creative living as a, let's say, writer, doing sometimes theater, doing sometimes film, doing sometimes TV, doing sometimes audible originals or iHeart originals in the storytelling space. And I think you hear the same thing from vendors of like, yeah, we're using our stage space for like a table read for a theater show, or we're you, you know, so I think we're really lucky in that LA is so diverse in terms of the creative intersections that we work in that we have all of that. Um, and I think we have to use that to our advantage right now, especially when people really are struggling. And you hear from a lot of people in theater, I think has always been a little bit more nitty-gritty in how it's it's it's its approach to things. But I think like you hear from so many people in the film space right now, like, oh, I'm leaving, I'm moving here, I'm I'm I'm packing up, I'm out of LA. Um, the people you see who are still making it work are those ones who are being very entrepreneurial and saying, okay, where do my creative skills, where do they translate? Where else can I be using my skills in the way that I want to exercise those muscles and still earn a living from the talent that I have? So I think that's really important.

SPEAKER_11 20:04

So I've actually in my career experienced almost a complete circle of that. When I started in the business in the early 80s in New York, uh shows that I worked on, it's it just was an incredible run. And off Broadway, not Broadway, was becoming the major feeder of the of the movie industry. Uh shows that never played on Broadway that became huge. Films like Steel Magnolias, Driving Miss Daisy, uh Frankie and Johnny and the Clair de Loon. I mean, the list goes on and on and on. Um other people's money. Uh and so film industry was specifically targeting off-Broadway ideas and shows. The difference is they didn't film the play versions of those. Because as a theater director, every decision we're making as a director in a live theater performance is reliant upon and in uh coercion with a live audience. And when you eliminate that, uh have you ever seen those all those films of plays that you love that just laid an egg? Because they're trying to film the play instead of like steel magnolias, uh getting the playwright to work with a screenwriter and adapt it and turn it into a for the something that makes sense for that form. So that was the eighties, it was it was brilliant, off-Broadway was rocking and rolling. Uh then Disney kind of swallowed the whole thing. And then you saw shows that were films making the leap to the stage. It has sort of a role reversal in that in New York specifically. And and that sort of ate a lot of the content. And then the news cycle came when I produced shows like Fleabag and Hannah Gatsby's Nanette. And then all of a sudden, with streaming off-Broadway, tighter ideas and personalized ideas and stories, like I see so many of you uh generously share with us. Uh that's become the new or a new, I should say, hunting ground, as it were, uh for for that. And that we actually Experts now that film and make it look like oh, that looks like a live stage performance. Like when you watch Hannah do Nanette uh on film. That's the difference between and streamed. That's the difference. Whereas Fleabag, we took those eight chapters of that story and they made eight episodes originally for Amazon. I know BBC, I think. Originally, we made there's eight episodes. So yeah, you have to think about how you're going to approach it if you want to approach the film industry. Like, are you dedicated to replicating your play on film, or are you wanting to use your play to transform itself into a product that suits film, if that makes sense?

SPEAKER_05 23:01

Yeah, totally. And I think it's like as an artist, learning what your non-negotiables are is a huge thing, both creatively and otherwise, like learning how to advocate for yourself and also, but like knowing like where those lines are that way. Because sometimes you're gonna have to work or you're gonna want to work with other people, and knowing where you're willing to negotiate and not is gonna be an important part of like your journey as an artist. Um, so speaking of that launching pad, moving into more direct theater spaces, what are the signals that you look for when seeing a show that you think is ready to go to that next level, like ready to take a risk on? Cause like Jonathan, you were saying, like it is a risk. And just like, you know, artists are hurting for money, so we're venues. The whole ecosystem is not in great shape. Uh, so what are those signals that tell you a show is worth taking a risk on?

SPEAKER_06 23:44

I think I'm looking for really strong storytelling. You know, some of the best pieces I've seen in fringe so far this year have really low production value. You know, it might just be one person speaking for 60 minutes. But if you can hold my attention for that and drive an evolution of a character, an arc in emotion and in drama, I believe that then that can translate to if we connect you to the right designers, the right collaborators, a chapter two that's gonna be super exciting. So I know this sounds basic, but so often I have come artists come to me being like, so I've got a great costume designer and I know exactly who's gonna write the music. And I'm like, that's great, but what is the story? You know, what is the big question that you are grappling with? What is the way you use language? How are you thinking about time and space and duration? Just go back to basics. If the basics are really smart and strong, the rest will come eventually.

SPEAKER_10 24:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 24:44

Anything to add? Yeah, no, I think that's 100% right. And I think it kind of actually transitions into my next question, which is like when artists are looking to make that transition, what are the things that should be important? Like, is it the script? Is it the costume? Is it the like what are the things if you could like pick each pick two things that you are looking for in a show? What are the two most important things to focus on? Because I fully agree. Like, don't worry about the set. That will come. I was just talking to a fringer from a couple of years ago recently who is now getting to that point where somebody is giving him a budget. And now you get to play with costumes. Now you get to play with like actually paying the artists and building a or bringing in a designer. So, what are those two things that an artist with a very low budget can focus on to get their work seen?

SPEAKER_03 25:27

Um, I I I have, I think, one good one and one really boring one. Um, the the good one is mission alignment. So, really understanding, I mean, the only reason I have a salary, the only reason I have a staff, the only reason we have budget to have these conversations is because our board has a mission and we serve at the pleasure of our board and we deliver on that mission. So I know you want to do your shows, and I know that you feel it's a match for certain spaces, and I'm excited to talk about that conversation. But what we need to do, and where I want your help, is to storytell how your project solves the problem of serving my mission. That's the only thing I'm looking for. That's the only thing I'm allowed to do with my time, right? So that's the that's the good one. The boring one is I'm looking for accountability. There are so many great ideas, great artists, great projects, but my team, once I've made a great discovery of a great project and a great artist, my team has to work with you. And I need my team to keep working with me. And it it it I I I'm not trying to be mean or sassy or playful, but but you know, it it is it is not it is not always professionalism in an administrative theater-producing world is a specific skill, and I'll even say it's a specific art. And it is it is something that not all actors have had the opportunity or privilege of practicing. And I don't expect you to have that fully developed muscle. But we are looking for folks who we want to play, who will play well with us, who are open to feedback, who do things when they say they'll do it, um, who are respectful of our boundaries, who when we have agreements, are are accountable to those agreements. So when we say this is the rehearsal schedule and you have a need for another rehearsal, yes, we technically can accommodate it, but we have 199 other projects we're juggling. So we just don't have capacity to make exceptions. So we're looking for folks who are leading with accountability. But here's the good thing when you lead with accountability and you build relationship and we've worked well together, then we get to a place a year or two or five in our relationship where we'll do whatever you want, right? But you have to appreciate that we're on a first date together and we're getting to know each other's needs. And there are a lot of, I won't say a lot, but there are projects that have gone very well, made a ton of money, slam dunk, home run, but we won't be working with them again because it was just too hard. So I know there's the north star of everything a project could be, but know that that north star can often eclipse relationship and future possibility.

SPEAKER_04 28:24

Well, I love that you started with that because that was not where I was gonna go, but it is absolutely 100% true. Um, it's actually something that comes up in our space of running a film festival. It's like, you know, we play films and we don't get to see the process that went into making that film. We just get to see the end product. And the end product is great. That's why we're playing the film. Um, and then we get to experience all the things that we need to get when the filmmaker is part of the festival. The deliverables, were they responsive to emails? Did they show up on time for their interview on set? All of those things. And it actually comes into play when we have our staff discussions. If we get an email from the Sundance Labs asking us for five referrals, or the Academy Gold Women's Fellowship asking for five referrals, or ABC Disney Director's Fellowship asking for five referrals. We have to have a conversation, not of just like the people who are super talented, but who are the people that are ready for that opportunity to work in that capacity that are not ultimately gonna cause a call to come back to us from one of those places, like why did you refer this person? Like they did not show up ready, like they didn't deliver what they were supposed to deliver, which has happened. So we've had to learn over 18 years the hard way that we cannot refer those kinds of people, unfortunately, yet that early in their career. So I think that's really important. I was gonna go with just very simple things, some of which you already brought up, which was um, you know, just sitting here watching what I watched earlier. Um, I think content, everybody has their own taste, right? Like we all have our own taste of what we want to watch and what kinds of shows we like and what kind of performances we like and the messaging of a show and the impact that a show is gonna have on us personally. I think like the story in the in film and for me in theater, it's always the most important thing. And then the next part of it for me is performance, but that I think is as an audience member, and I like what you said because it's taking what you're gonna see as an audience and then putting yourself in the shoes of somebody who's actually gonna have to develop and work on and be part of that process with the creative. So I I would say those two things from a from a pie in the sky perspective.

SPEAKER_11 30:40

Uh my two things echo sort of a lot of the background of what you have brought up, but it's pretty basic and simple for my team at Soho Playhouse. We're a writer-driven theater. We're there to serve writers' stories. And so the text is the most important thing. It all begins with the text. And we analyze the text, and see, even young people agree. Uh we start with the text, so that's primarily number one, because I have to know that you have the skills that not just to write, but that you can write for the in my case, for the stage. And that's that's two different skill sets, as many of you realize. Like I can leaf through a script now all these years later, and I can tell you the quality of the writer by how much white is on the page. Because people don't speak in long paragraphs to one another when they're emotionally charged up. They interject, they they they talk over one another, et cetera, et cetera. So the writing is is primarily number one. Number two is you. The second most important thing is is doing this a long time is you and your personality. And do you you know, big theater is an ensemble art form. So exactly echoing a lot of what was brought up. Are you gonna integrate with my team? Are are you gonna get the fact that none of us do this alone? That it's a completely uncommitted ensemble experience that that we're trying to provide for. And telling those stories in an ensemble way seems to serve our audience the best.

SPEAKER_06 32:28

Yeah, I so echo everybody. Um, the one thing I would add is that if you already have strong writing, I would encourage you to get an outside eye. A lot of the works that I'm seeing this year are a one-person show, which is great, but almost everyone can benefit from a dramaturg, someone who can ask you hard questions, interrogate what you're doing, provide additional perspective, or that could be a director who can help refine the choice those words, and or a choreographer, someone who can really help to physicalize what you're doing and take it to a new level, even in ways that might seem subtle to you, can be huge in evolving the development of a character.

SPEAKER_05 33:14

Oh, yes, and they're all right here, y'all. And I think this is something to point out. The one of one of my favorite things about Fringe is the artist community and the brilliance in the two almost 2,000 of the artists that are partaking this year. There are so many different skill sets. I know there's a choreographer, I know there's a director, I know there's someone whose shows you have seen and you're like, hot damn, that show was amazing. That's the friend you ask to read your script. That's the person you trust with your words, with your story. And so know it exists. So at the same time that you're looking at all of the industry, the awards, all of these huge next steps, I think it's important to focus in like or in a smaller group setting of like what other what network can I build amongst my fellow artists? Because it will help bring your show to the next step. And it's a far easier journey to start to build that cohort and that collective that will help you. Um, so I think based on this, I think we have some big homework, right? We have to be a don't be a jerk. Don't be someone that someone wants to work with. Um, make sure you're focused on story. I love that.

SPEAKER_11 34:13

Talk to one another, I promise you. It's true.

SPEAKER_05 34:15

And right, and and your reputation, you're right. When when I'm recommending, that's my reputation. That's Hollywood Fringe's reputation too, right? That's affecting your fellow artists. If my if my advice is not good to my fellow festivals, to our fellow industry with here in Los Angeles, they're gonna stop trusting all of the Hollywood Fringe recs. And so it is reputation is such an important thing. And I think again, focusing on story and a place like fringe, you can. You don't need, it's not the Pantages, it's not the Geffen, you don't need all of the bells and whistles. Focus on story. And then I think I want to point out like homework on this. Like, come up with your mission and vision for your show. Act like your show is an organization, a nonprofit. And once you build your mission and vision, you can start to find who matches and who you do want to work with to make that kind of research, that bit of internet stalking a little easier. Cause now you know exactly your mission and vision for the show in particular. Um, Jennifer.

SPEAKER_03 35:04

I'm just gonna add uh to the uh relational and the partnership piece of it. Yeah. Um, at the LA LGBT center, we have a culture, or we at least the art center has a culture of asking everyone after every meeting for feedback. So we normalize feedback, we build a culture of feedback, and after every conversation, we leave five, 10 minutes to say, Do you have any feedback for me? So I say that because you are going to work with folks who, even if you do everything perfectly, because they are different humans than you, will form some reaction or story or you know, have some idea of you. And if you're you you cannot, it is very likely that folks who you want to work with in the future who might also not be sure they want to work with you, it's very likely they're not gonna say anything to you. Right? Especially I mean, if they are gonna work with you in the future, they will say something. If we have like a multi-year, this is why, you know, a whole conversation about salary versus contractors, right? Salary is great because I know I have to work with you. So I'm gonna develop and give you feedback. But if you're a contractor, it's a lot easier to just hire a different contractor. So it is not, unfortunately, don't assume you're gonna get the feedback you need to be successful in the relationship. So ask for feedback. It might be really silly. You could even start your first conversation and say, look, this is a new process for me. I don't get the opportunity to be in rooms with people like you. Um, I always lead with vulnerability when I'm, you know, doing things that are new for me, and say, hey, um, I'd throughout this process, I really want to learn. I want your feedback. So I'm gonna do a really silly ritual. And after every conversation, I'm gonna ask you for feedback. And here's the thing: if someone feels negatively about you and you ask them for feedback and they withhold that feedback and don't invest in their relationship with you, it was never gonna work out. But you've held yourself accountable to get everything you need from the people you want to be in partnership with.

SPEAKER_05 36:56

Yeah, I love that. That's really smart. Um, I'm gonna combine the next two questions a little bit here because we've talked about so all of these things that are a little more, a little harder to put your finger on. But let's talk materials. If an artist is ready to pitch to a theater to um a potential film crew, what or investor for that matter? Um, what are the materials, the things that you want to be sent or have access to? And addition, how do you want that communicated? What is the best way an artist can reach out? Is it cold email? Is it you know, sneaking up on you at a coffee shop? What are those two things? No, obviously not. Do not do that. Um, but uh definitely like what are the materials you need and how do you want to be communicated with?

SPEAKER_04 37:35

I mean, for us, um, stills, obviously, look on the wall. Uh, I think stills is is really huge. We're not we're not big on filmmakers making posters for their films as independent filmmakers because a lot of times the posters that get designed do not do the film justice. And it get they're not designed, they're not graphic designers. So sometimes you'll see a poster and you're like, that does not match the quality of the film. Uh but that's a film thing. I mean, obviously, I think these are so interesting and and like theater is just way more in your face than film. Um, but uh a press kit is really, really great. Um, something that has all the information about like the cast, the crew, you know, notes about the production. Um, so press kit, you know, if it's film, a trailer is really great. Um, and then high-res stills, because also um you said something earlier that was about your meeting your mission. And I think that's also part of like the marketability of your show. Um, like for us, the marketability of a film, right? Like what who are the journalists who are going to be invested in that type of content of the film? Whether it's that the film is talking about really important issues in the LGBTQ plus space, or the film is talking about immigrants and what it's like to be an immigrant, and who are the journalists that are really that's a passion point for them. I think those kinds of things are are really important. So those materials are key because once a journalist or or somebody does get interested in it, they're the next thing they're gonna ask you for is pieces of media that they can publish with a story. So for us, that's uh those are some of the really crucial components.

SPEAKER_11 39:18

Uh probably as, and again, in the theater space, it's probably as you would suspect. Uh finding a uh the right introductory email is usually one of the first bridges between myself and my team and your show. So a well-constructed email that includes some key ingredients, which is who you are, of course, uh why you wrote what you wrote, and that also shows some sense of that you've done research on the LGBTQ center, on Soho Playhouse, on your program, on the film, so that you can identify as like I think I'm a match for Soho Playhouse because ABC. I saw this show, I know it develops that audience, I speak this language that you appear to speak to your audience, you know, showing that you've done your homework and that it's not just a number 620 out of 740 emails that that it's personalized and that you've done some some homework to use your word.

SPEAKER_05 40:28

And potentially what gap you can fill, right?

SPEAKER_11 40:29

Like I see how you fit into your program, but also you don't have this and it would fit in because yeah, because everybody writes, you know, I by the way, I I'm not to name drop, but I bring up those shows uh to encourage you. Each of those shows that I mentioned before started in a room with a person trying out their material in front of 13 people. And then step by step by step it grew into these projects. So I bring that up as encouragement that it does and can happen. Uh but yeah, showing that you that you care about the space and what it's serving, and that you you've read our mission statement. Uh so then you'll know what we do. I think that's critical.

SPEAKER_06 41:13

Yeah, I echo all of that. I would also do something that I call signposting. So sometimes someone will send me a beautiful press pack. And to agree with what you're saying, we get so many emails, and I don't mean to complain, but just to offer some context for you all, I have about 30 seconds to decide if I'm gonna answer your email today or in three months. And if it's not that interesting, it'll probably go in my answer this in three months folder. And so you want to give me some quick things that will stand out. So, like I had an artist recently totally new to me, but they were able to say, Hey, I'm working with this director that I know you did their last show of, similar to that director. This is a one-person show that's using queer themes and fantasy. And I was like, Oh, okay, great. Like we have someone in common. We're working in a similar world. You understand me, I have a sense of where you're going. Great. Because sometimes I have incredible people who write to me, but they're from Vienna and we don't have a whole lot of intersection with that. So I need some of those handholds. Um, because I agree with so much of what other people are saying, I will say some things not to do to offer some opposite.

SPEAKER_05 42:27

I love a whoopsie daisies, please.

SPEAKER_06 42:28

Yeah. Like please do not come up to us when we are handling a show for like 500 people and try to do a pitch in 30 seconds in the lobby. I think it's actually really important to come and see things at our venues so that then when we have a phone call, you can say, I saw what you did with this and I thought A, B, and C about it. But we are really busy and we're often working. And so it can be actually unfortunately a negative mark in your direction if somebody doesn't have the wherewithal or the thoughtfulness to acknowledge that. But I think it's great, it's always good to introduce yourself, but like keep it casual. I think also like offer some compassion. Sometimes I need to meet someone twice before I can recognize their face because I'm meeting hundreds of people at a festival. Sometimes I might not respond to your email in a week. Don't get upset about that. You know, I always say to people, sometimes it takes years to develop a relationship that's strong enough that then I can be open to having a conversation about commissioning. And that can feel like it takes forever, but it's worth investing in.

SPEAKER_03 43:37

Um, I I love this, I love all these points, but I really love this point about um, you know, seeing you a couple times, building a relationship, remembering who you are. Um you know, believe it or not, like I won't speak for everyone, but like I get ghosted by artists. Like I don't, I don't, it doesn't all work out, right? So when I see an artist once, they may be in at a panel, and then I see them at an opening night, and then I, you know, see, oh, I didn't know they were in the show, but they're in this play I'm seeing. By like the third time, I realize, oh, they're serious. Like they're in the community. And it just takes some time to build trust because everyone wants everyone wants our time, right? But It but it doesn't, it it sometimes is feels like a waste of time. And when I know that someone is really invested in the community, then I start to really be more generous with that investment. Um, I also want to just acknowledge there's no strategy, everyone works differently. Um, I really like moving slowly and leading with relationship. And I I, as you might hear, invest more so in people than in projects. Um, I I actually, most of the things on my stage I've not read the script for because I'm investing in the human and what I see as their potential, recognizing it might fail, but I'm invested in you. Um so I just want to model very briefly like two emails that I would love to receive. Or if I was doing this right now, I would probably say, Hey, so-and-so, um, I've seen these shows at your theater. I'm really inspired by your mission and what you're doing. Um, I would love to be in community with you. Um I might share like three bulleted points about like what what I'm doing in community, like I've done this, this, and this. Um, and and basically I might say, would you be open to a 15-minute Zoom so I could learn more about your mission, what your needs are, what what gaps you're trying to fill, because I'm in this for the long run. I don't know if my work is a match for you, but I'd love to help solve your mission's problems. I'd love to be a partner and ally to advance your work. And uh we should be in community, right? When I was younger, I would um do a lot of coffee dates with directors, and they would always ask me, like, okay, so what do you want from me? And I would say, I don't want anything. I'm just a colleague of yours. We should be in community. We're neighbors now. Um, so build community, build relationship. And then the other version of an email, which is, you know, uh less can we build a relationship? Do you have 15 minutes? Is is more so the um I see what you're doing, A, B, and C. Um, here's what I've done, A, B, and C. Um, you know, here are my materials, right? You can just be really, you know, efficient about it. And then one final thing is uh I don't know why this matters to me, but it's it's it feels like kind of classy to me when someone asks me if they can send me their materials.

SPEAKER_10 46:32

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:33

I don't know like why that matters. Like I just feel so good. I just feel like you have no idea no one ever does that. I just get like every day we get emails.

SPEAKER_11 46:44

Oh, consent.

SPEAKER_03 46:46

But when someone says, like, hey, I'm I see what you're doing, I'm really inspired. There might be opportunity here. Would you mind if I sent you a play, no rush? I'm just, yes, send it. It's really great.

SPEAKER_05 47:00

No, I never thought about it like that, but you're absolutely right. It just feels like you get to be a part of that decision as opposed to the there is like a weight and a pressure when an entire deck that clearly took someone hours and hours and hours ends up in your email. And you know that you're also BCC'd with a hundred other people, but you do feel a weight of like, I didn't ask for this, and now here I am feeling like if I'm not looking at it, I'm an asshole. And so I love that. That's a great bit of advice.

SPEAKER_11 47:23

I'll add one more thing to the submission of materials that I forgot to add. So I think I made it clear about how I feel about filmed stage plays that they don't always translate. Where I do get interesting, increasingly uh submitted material is snippets of the play done. So first of all, if you have a three-camera shoot and it's really well done, then then I want to see some of that material because then I think it can translate. But if it's a handheld or whatever, it's not gonna work. But the material I get increasingly that I'm interested in is outside of like the theater. So if a scene takes place in a park, that I see the actors in a park in an actual park and it's well shot, and they do a snippet of a scene that gives me a taste of the writing and a taste of the material which isn't pretending to replicate the theatrical experience. And those are getting creative inter more creative uh as we go along. And I suggest, and that's fun for me, because then I'm not just looking at another dropped uh tape. It's like, oh, what did they cook up for this? And and it's a fun way for the artist to tell you more about their show using that.

SPEAKER_03 48:38

One really quick uh success story. Um, uh once a colleague, another artistic director, emailed me saying, Hey, I just saw this show. Don't know if you're looking or if it's a match for you, but I think it could be. It's really exciting. So just cool. I good to know. And then like a month later, some another colleague emailed me with the same email saying, Hey, I just saw this. It really impacted me. Don't know if it's for you, but you should know this person's name. And then, like a month or two later, that person emailed me, and I really cared about who they were because I was like, no one's ever talked about I I heard a lot about you. Like, I should take this seriously.

SPEAKER_06 49:16

Yeah. Yeah, I think another strategy that's successful, it's delicate, but related to this, is I have had some people say, like, hey, I have been mentoring this young person for 20 years. I know you and I have a strong, long relationship. I don't normally do this, but I just wanted to take the opportunity to send you a paragraph about them. If you're open, can I connect you two? And that's a way to like preserve their time and our relationship while also giving that immediate handhold of like, oh yeah, I've produced three of your shows. I'm definitely gonna open your email and see what's going on. And I also have enough strength and trust to be honest with you and say, that's awesome that you're mentoring this person. I don't think they're the right fit, but thanks for asking. Or say, like, yeah, this looks great. We can talk in August when I'm not producing a show live.

unknown 50:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 50:05

And I think I want to add one more thing. These are brilliant. Um, but also know your data. No, and you talked about this earlier, but like ticket sales do matter, y'all. If you're taking a risk on a show, you want to know that they can produce butts in seats and the fringe website on your admin tab, you do have access to your fringe data and it can hopefully start to build like a spreadsheet for you and like what it looks like. And so it's how many tickets can you sell, at what average ticket price? And additionally, who you who are you bringing in? Who is your audience? And we talk about this early on in the process, like the marketing, but who is your audience? You have to kind of know their mission and vision as well as you go in. That way you can talk to your venue and also combine efforts because you're bringing in an audience, they're bringing in an audience, but knowing who your audience is and who you have to offer is gonna be huge when someone's taking a risk on you. Um, I want to ask the panel if we run 10 minutes over, would that be all right with everyone? Okay, brilliant. Thank you. I can just tell. I was like, I have one more, at least one more question I want to ask. Um, but I want to leave at least a couple of minutes for questions. But I would love kind of going back to that like first date um idea. So I'm going off the I'm off the paper at this point. Um it's happening. But I I think it's important, right? Like it is a first date for both parties. And so as artists, especially as indie artists, I feel like there's this guttural need to just say yes to everything because it's a new opportunity. And I want to kind of fight against that because you are your, you have to be your own advocate. You deserve to work in a space that supports your work. And while like, yeah, pickings can be slim sometimes, there's not often a lot of money. I think it's important to have a conversation from people that I know put artists first in all of your organizations about how to protect yourself as an artist when you're coming into these meetings. So, what are the, what are the questions that you need to be asking before you're signing in on a copro or on a film project? What are the red flags uh that an artist should be watching out for before they are getting into business with an organization or a venue or putting their both their financial and personal reputation at stake, right? Because it's like it's a shared reputation. We've been talking a lot about that. So, what are what are those questions that artists should be asking to protect themselves?

SPEAKER_04 52:08

I mean, I'll just say you bring up a good point. And I feel like you did address this already with like, hey, let's get to know each other, let's spend some time together, let's make sure we want to work with each other. I would say at least a minimum of once a year out of about 240 films we play a year that just actually happened with our best of awards, which was announced in Variety. One of the producers emailed us and was like, Oh, can you please take the other producer's name off the Variety article? Because they're no longer involved in the project. And I'm like, no, can't do that because their name is in the credits of the film, and the film was done like a year ago, so I can't get involved in like your dispute with your collaborator. I'm really sorry that that happened. I'm sure it sucks, but like, no, like they worked on the project and their name is in the credits, so I can't get involved. Um, it does happen all the time, unfortunately. It's really sad to see because nobody wants to see that in a creative space. Um, so you I think you said it best, and I'm just gonna stick with what you said as an answer.

SPEAKER_05 53:14

Yeah, um so the central question is what should artists be asking to make sure, like if they never walked into a meeting, which then you look at that.

SPEAKER_11 53:25

You said something interesting in the intro to that. It's true that the most powerful word in the English language is no. So uh, and you said something about boundaries earlier. You know, that exists, that's definitely a two-way street. I mean, an institution or a theater is gonna have boundaries, but an artist is gonna have boundaries as well, and they're not always the same, and they're not always in alignment, and being comfortable with your personal boundaries and being having the strength uh within the eyes of opportunity to say, you know what, not a fit. Uh, that's super important to know. And then everything at a certain level, by the time you get to even the Encore series, an off-Broadway deal, everything is highly contracted, and you owe it to yourself to ask questions about the contract. Anybody who's freaked out in our role about a lot of questions about a contract is not coming clean. So, like everybody on our end should be perfectly versed and perfectly comfortable and taking all the time it takes to make sure you understand exactly what that document. Because what we're saying sometimes, I feel that disappointment happens when expectations do not meet realities. And that goes on both sides of the street. So making sure that those realities are not just written down and signed off on, but they're vocalized to one another is like you understand that that legalese means this in our practical working relationship. And not being afraid to ask those questions and dive deep into those contracts. It's like, and there's no such thing as a bad or or unsophisticated question. It's if you don't know, you don't know, and you need to know. Because like a a sentence could make a big difference.

SPEAKER_06 55:16

So that would be Yeah, I agree. I think it's always within your right to ask for a contract read. And that's a meeting where you would go line by line in the contract and they would articulate it for you in plain English, and then you can redline it. It's always okay to redline a contract. I will say it can be done with care and thoughtfulness. You know, if I have an artist where I thought, to your point, that we had an expectation and an understanding, and then I send a contract and there's more red than there's black type, then we do have a problem. And it's good to know that sooner rather than later. But always feel free to ask questions. I think the other thing that artists should be careful about or thoughtful of is just think about the money. You know, it's not the only thing, but I think sometimes people are so worried about turning people off or shying away from the engagement that they don't ask the question until it feels like they're already too committed to say no. So it's really okay to ask from the beginning, is there compensation involved? And then if the financial compensation is not where you'd like it to be, ask for other in-kind support. Is there a rehearsal space that comes with it? Can they help bring in press that maybe you didn't have access to? Um, and I will also say, too, while I want artists to be pragmatic, I have had some artists where I say, like, hey, tell me a little bit about your piece. And they're like, it can be whatever you want it to be. And that's actually a huge red flag for me as a curator. I need to know that you have a strong core and that there are some things that you will not budge on because it is a strong, clear piece of work, and that there are some things that you might be willing to adjust for each venue or in this particular presentation. But knowing those limits shows that you've really thought it through.

SPEAKER_11 57:03

Yeah, my show's for everyone. It's not your show's for everyone.

SPEAKER_10 57:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:08

Yeah. Um, what questions should you ask? So, you know, if I were, you know, thinking back back to your artist days. Yeah, back to my artist days, and I was in a in a room with an artistic director. I might say, I'm so jazzed to be here. This is so exciting. I really want to work with you. I haven't been in many rooms like this. What questions should I ask you?

SPEAKER_05 57:29

Ooh, I love the vulnerability.

SPEAKER_03 57:32

Yeah, just I mean, you you have access, you don't need to like pretend you suddenly know everything. Like most people in leadership are excited about mentorship. Like, we're invested in you. And if if you if you suggest that we have some value to bring you, like we're excited to like bring that value. Um, but questions you may want to ask are what do you do and what do I do? Um yeah, really, because sometimes artists are like, hey, I made the poster. And we're like, no, no, no, let's take that back. Um uh or or what does success look like to you? Or, you know, I think of like questions I ask my bosses. I I I might say, um, you know, who's your highest performing employee and why? Like, what does a home run look like? Um, you know, what do you like what do you actually want to know from them? Or might you say, look, I'm really happy to be here. I would like to be invited back. What do you need to see from me for that to be possible? Like just understand what is your question. And and, you know, maybe you write it down in advance and practice saying it in the mirror and get really comfortable saying that thing. And, you know, I I don't mean to be the foo-foo guy talking about like communication and vulnerability, but you know, I some of this stuff is so uncomfortable. Like, oh, it's so awkward. And I just love the superpower of saying, hey, I love being on stage. It is my jam. I'm so secure there in this seat. I feel so awkward. So bear with me as I try to get my question out because this makes me nervous, right? And then suddenly it's like, whoo, no, how can I support you? Right. So there's some stuff.

SPEAKER_05 59:03

Yeah, I love that. And I think it's just even sometimes just taking a beat, right? It's not about knowing all the questions or knowing all those red flags, but it's taking a beat and letting the excitement exist while also the working brain of like, you have rent to pay, you have bills to pay, you have to exist as a human alongside these opportunities. So knowing what the best case scenario is and the worst case, especially when it's like offers of minimums or things like that.

SPEAKER_03 59:25

Yeah, and going back to the contract. So I think the objective for the artist sort of stuff, but also if it is the theater's truth that our answer is no to everything, for a lot of reasons we won't get into, that's not wrong. We're not evil, we're not taking advantage of you. That is your decision to make. Does that work for me? So we say, like, we try and give folks a contract early in the process, well before it needs to be signed. So we say, look, we're giving you all our cards are on the table. We'll answer all of your questions. Um, this is what we're offering. If it doesn't work for you, that is okay. But this is this is the invite.

SPEAKER_05 59:58

Yeah. And I think asking your fellow artists, again, it's a small community, everyone knows everybody. And there's nothing wrong with going, hey, I know you've worked there before. How was that for you? And I think that's how we start to expect better as artists, right? At the end of the day, you have a lot of power. There are so many of y'all. And so if you start to raise the expectation of what is acceptable, what is acceptable in our industry, which is notably not always perfect, you can start to build and ripple what our industry becomes. Can you imagine something to add?

SPEAKER_06 1:00:24

I just would say I think that's really important to know that you do have that power. Yeah. And so you can say no. And sometimes, like, I respect an artist all the more for it because I know that they're like, yeah, my worth is more than that. And sometimes I'm like, yeah, I get it. And our budget is where it is. So maybe things can be true. Yeah. But I would say once you accept the terms, do so wholeheartedly. Because one way to really sour a relationship is to be like, well, I didn't really want that, but I guess, okay, fine. And then you sign. And then if you're frustrated the whole time, it can be really challenging on my part because I'm like, well, we've been really honest and you made a commitment. And I'm also making the commitment. So just know that like that's your moment. Sit with it and then go forward wholeheartedly.

SPEAKER_10 1:01:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:10

Okay, y'all. We have a few minutes for questions. Oh, we haven't sitting on that box for a long time. Okay. Um, so I'm gonna walk around. We probably only have room for like maybe three, two questions. Um, so if we can keep quick answers, panelists, that'd be amazing. Um, raise your hand uh quickly, name and name of show. Start market or keep marketing your show, right? And then I will bring the mic over to you. Boom. First.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:32

My name is James. Uh, my show is the fall of the Roman Republic on a shoestring budget. And I am doing uh a three-camera shoot actually tonight and also our show on Sunday. Do you prefer uh getting uh material sent to you just through the websites, how they um tell artists to submit their material, or is there a different way that you prefer it?

SPEAKER_06 1:01:54

Um great question. I think if there's an open application, please just follow the instructions. I know that sounds crazy, but like read it carefully and complete it. Um otherwise, I think like follow the instructions that we've shared around how to approach people.

SPEAKER_10 1:02:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_11 1:02:14

Yeah, I agree with that. Um I'm a big fan of like not just a direct email is great, and it's on our website how to do that, sohoplayhouse.com. But also I really love people using the Hollywood fringe intersite and communication device because it shows me, first of all, it's a great way to get the materials, but it also shows me, oh, that person, that artist is integrating themselves into the fringe community and using that platform.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:44

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, another quick yes.

SPEAKER_08 1:02:48

Hello, my name is Zek Badugu. I'm doing the smoke out at comedy rap battle tournament. Um, is there a place for your particular um organizations that's not a traditional play, that's not like a solo show, like something that is more of a variety or a clown or an interactive, immersive type of thing? Uh, could you just take a moment to speak about how uh your space or if there's a place for that in your spaces? In the spirit of short answers, yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:15

They're listening to me. I love the power I have right now.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:19

Um I'll I'll just say uh absolutely, we've done a lot of that. But understand, um theaters are are traditionally very efficient buildings, right? So there's a re- I mean, we've got the fixed seats and the box office and all this stuff, right? It it's efficient, it's affordable. Everything beyond that is less efficient and less affordable. We're invested in having that also, but it's so much more work for us. There are so many complications that for us to invest in that project with a human, we first want to go through more traditional processes where we trust we we will do something complex with that person.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:00

Hello, Jay Elijah Cho, uh Murder Podcast the Musical and uh Mr. Uniyoshi. So I did a solo show in 2019 that was pretty well received, but then uh COVID happened. Um and so I'm wondering, is there what would be the process of I guess reviving an old show with your can we submit old stuff or does it have to be new?

SPEAKER_06 1:04:26

Um I'll answer in terms of Red Cat. I will say like my condolences to all of us. COVID was really hard, and frankly, we're still moving through it, so you're not alone. Um, in terms of Red Cat, we're primarily interested in new work. So I will say for us, probably not the right fit.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:45

I'm gonna add in a generalized thing here, just because I see it. I Ellen and I attend a lot of festivals as industry, and I think the building your book, um, especially as a touring artist, who if you're planning on doing a you know US tour or a worldwide tour, having the more tools in your kit, the better, like the more sellable you are, the more venues you can go to with the multiple pieces that you've done. So having that book is only a good thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:08

Um, I'll add very quickly. Um uh we're certainly open to new and and not new work, right? Um, but uh one thing that makes me think of is because so many projects are our solo works, uh, which sometimes can mean it's harder to find audiences, because when you have more, every actor is bringing their community, right? So one thing I would maybe think about is how do you um create shows or adjust shows to create a double bill or triple bill 90-minute evening where you can bring that to a theater and say, hey, I know you don't know any of the three of us, but we all have a community and we're really thinking strategically about risk mitigation and making sure you have folks buying tickets. So here's us showing you that we're thinking about what's important to you.

SPEAKER_11 1:05:50

Yeah, to answer your question directly, the uh there's room for both at Soho Playhouse. So again, research the institution. We have specific programs like the International Fringe Encore Series and our Lighthouse series that are dedicated for new work, and they collectively take up about three months of the year. But the other nine months of the year we're book we're just booking good work. It doesn't matter when it's made.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:19

I'm gonna end on one quick fire quick because we've gotten some. Good at the quick answers. I'm gonna take advantage of it. Um, because uh, y'all, there this is not gonna be the first time you engage industry or last time. Oh my god, doing fine. The last time you engage industry. So, my last question though is like right now, I'm big on like a and something that is active, something you can do within a week. Um, so you're feeling like you're moving forward. What is one thing every artist can do as they're finishing up their fringe run to kind of push toward that what's next chapter?

SPEAKER_04 1:06:46

Um, I I know this sounds kind of lame, but I'll go with stay curious because I feel like the people who are really paying attention to what's going on in the space are the ones who are taking advantage of all the opportunities that exist. So whether that's like reading the trades and the people who write about theater or paying attention and following all the Instagrams that are talking about all the things that are happening in the theater space, especially grants and workshops and things that you can take advantage of. The people that we see thriving in film are always the people that are on top of those things before anybody else. So I'll go with that one.

unknown 1:07:18

It's good.

SPEAKER_11 1:07:19

Uh see each other's shows. That's something you can proactively do at any time. Uh and you, you know, join the community is what you can do. Lois and Ellen have done such a gorgeous job of building this community. So take it so take advantage of that. And it also it it's it you'll create and make sure you go see shows of of people that you don't know and have never met. And and that way you're forging a greater community and forging new relationships, which is what this is really all about.

unknown 1:07:54

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:56

I think one thing you can do in a week is update your website, which I know is so lame, but like have a little study date with a friend and do it together. Because it's funky when you write to us and then we go to click on your website and it hasn't been updated in five years, or it doesn't have the materials that you emailed us. So then if I can't find the email, but then I look at your website, it's not there. Just be consistent in your communication.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:25

I don't mean to overcomplicate it, but I was thinking about this question. And and uh I don't know if this is possible, but if I were in your shoes, I would think about if no one picks up my show and I'm not, I don't have a you know, a run, how do I keep the momentum of the show going? And one way to do that I would think is could the show have one performance every month? Could the show have one performance every two months, every quarter? Okay, well, in fringe, it's so accessible because you're only renting like 90 minutes, and most venues don't do that normally, right? So then can you find in this room two or three buddy shows and you once a month or once a quarter have your micro festival, right? And then the show is growing. Then there's a constant buzz of you building your audience. You've got waves of energy to invite artistic leaders to, and you're collecting data and you're saying, look, my show wasn't successful because it was in the you know, tornado of fringe, which is not unsignificant, but my show continues to be successful and growing over the course of six or 12 or 18 months. A lot of the shows we do are actually rentals that keep renting from us because there's audience demand, and we think, hey, there's something here, there's a demand, we should capture that. So keep demonstrate that the demand continues.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:42

I love that. Y'all, thank you so much for joining us and sharing your expertise. And and and thank you so much for additionally, like you're here sharing your expertise, but I know personally how invested the four of you are in the arts and the arts ecosystem. And you are such amazing players within that. So grateful to have you a part of the big family that is theater in Los Angeles and beyond. Uh, so thank y'all and happy fringe.