Divine Martyr - Symphonic Metal From The Midwest

We sit down with Divine Martyr to trace their path from early singles to a focused full-length, and dig into how DIY recording, better live systems, and a democratic culture keep a symphonic metal band moving forward. From lineup changes to onstage save-the-show moments, the band shares practical lessons for musicians at any level.

• origin of Divine Martyr and Indianapolis roots
• lineup evolution and Cassandra stepping in on vocals
• Jason’s thrash-to-symphonic influences and home tracking
• Woody’s bass approach inspired by Ryan Martinie and Cliff Burton
• Mark’s classical percussion background and orchestration role
• building home studios to control cost and quality
• finding engineers who can mix dense symphonic layers
• pre-sale vs festivals and booking realities in the Midwest
• in-ears vs wedges, RF issues, and rehearsal strategies
• contingency plans for live tech failures and crowd management
• rehearsal cadence, stage spacing, and future choreography
• advice to new drummers on teachers, metronomes, and reading
• socials and where to find Divine Martyr’s music

Please do check out Divine Martyr, they’re an amazingly talented band. We will put a link on our socials to their information as well.

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome, Quote, And Guest Intro
• 1:39 Divine Martyr’s Origin Story
• 3:50 Jason’s Influences And Recording Shift
• 6:12 Woody’s Path To Bass And Mission
• 11:58 Mark’s Percussion Roots And Orchestration
• 13:41 Cassandra’s Vocal Journey And Fit
• 18:58 Band Chemistry And DIY Production
• 21:16 Touring Plans, Video Strategy, And Singles
• 23:56 Ticketing, Booking, And 2026 Outlook
• 25:27 Reinventing The Sound And Show
• 29:20 In‑Ear Monitors, Wedges, And Live Realities
• 32:40 “Oh Shit” Moments On Stage
• 35:08 Rehearsals, Stagecraft, And Choreography
• 37:21 Influences: Guitar, Bass, Drums, Vocals
• 41:26 Links, Advice For Drummers, And Wrap

Transcript

Rob: 0:29

Hi, welcome to Franklin's Garage Estate podcast. My name is Rob Wardrums Franklin, and my co-host is Dana Thunderbass Franklin. How are you doing, man? I'm doing good. Oh, I'm doing really well. Getting cold here, but okay. I always start the podcast with a quote, uh, inspirational quotes. That's either about music or just life in general. So today's quote is by George Bernard Shaw. It's progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything. And I think that applies to just about anything life, music, everything in general. So, Dana, you want to introduce our guests today?

Dana: 1:08

I'd love to. Hey, with us today from uh coming from Indianapolis, where I know it's cold and snowing, guys, so you appreciate the appreciate the effort to make it, is uh a band called Divine Martyr. So um if you guys will please uh introduce yourself and you know if one of you can tell us a little bit about your band and what kind of music you do, and just let the new listeners know what you're all about.

Rob: 1:35

Somebody somebody go ahead and take the lead there.

Jason: 1:37

How about how about you said we're Divine Martyr, we're from Indy or kind of all around Indianapolis in the metro area. Um band started in about 2015. Um, the first iteration of it anyway, and and Mark and Woody got together specifically with another guitarist, started writing some material. Um I think they came into a singer, what, within the first year or so, and then uh at some point that original guitarist left, and that was about 2016, so that's about the time I stepped in uh on guitar, and you know, the the original lineup kind of recorded you know some early stuff. Um I think we were what was our first single? Was it 2018, 17? Gosh, I can't even remember now. Um later that summer, that that was right around New Year's. Later that summer we recorded a threesong EP with that same lineup, released that, and then uh we've been through a few lineup changes off and on since you know 2018-2019. Uh Cassandra came on board back in April of this year, I think. And you know, we're we've been trying to put together an album for the last couple of years, just couldn't get a lot of momentum, and we've already made a lot more progress just in the last six months than than we have in a while. So we're pretty excited. We've we've got sights on a full-length album here to come.

Rob: 3:09

Nice, nice.

Jason: 3:10

And uh yeah, so that kind of in a nutshell, uh kind of that's the the uh the cliff notes version of of the band history, I guess, there. But um, but yeah, my name's Jason. I play guitar. Uh, I've been playing for a lot of years. Thir 35 years almost are coming up on that. Um grew up on a lot of um 80s thrash metal, so I started on Metallica and Anthrax and Slayer and that kind of stuff. Okay, kind of gravitated towards some of the heavier death metal in the early 90s, so I was big into that kind of stuff, cannibal corpse, carcass, suffocation, you know, the pretty extreme metal kind of stuff. That's that's the hard end, hardcore, and then really that's like playing wise, that's still kind of my roots, you know. I still incorporate a lot of that kind of riffage and that kind of stuff into even our music. You know, symphonic metal is very different from that, but you know, some of that kind of plays into my writing still to this day. Um so from that point, kind of got more into Prague, started listening to a lot of jazz and and classical orchestrated type music as well, film scores. Um, actually have had a big influence on on me. I love Hans Zimmer and guys like that that do some of the modern film scores. I think he's an incredible composer, and uh he's had a pretty good influence on me. And then really in the early 2000s, I kind of found Nightwish and and Epica and Camelot and some of that stuff, and that's that's really kind of shaped my playing and my writing really for the last 20 years. That's that's probably had the biggest impact in that time frame, and and really that's kind of brought me up to today. So that's kind of my history. I appreciate that, man. Yeah, it's kind of evolved over time, but we're really starting to dial that in. We're actually doing a lot more of our own recording and tracking and that sort of stuff. So you know, I've I've learned a lot in the last couple of years, and it also gives us a little more control over that final product, right? So uh it's been a learning process, but it's it's been good for us, and and uh like I said, we're we're looking forward to to really getting the album going. We're we're well on our way now. The writing's there, a lot of the tracking's done, and it's just kind of putting some finishing touches on some things. So it's really coming along. We're excited.

Rob: 5:41

Cool. Well, let's stick with the strings. Woody, you want to tell us about you?

Woody: 5:46

Yeah, um I was kind of a late bloomer, definitely not as many years as Jason. So um I started probably playing guitar like when I was 30, 32, and then um never really got into it real serious, kind of more of a rhythm guy, and then um I switched over to bass. Um, because bassists only play four strings, and they don't want to say it's not hard. Um you're gonna offend a lot of people by saying what you're thinking, so I mean, you know, Billy Gan will disagree with you, man. So uh that's true. Actually, so I went straight to the five strains because I was like, I don't want to be that four-stream stereotype, like nice brother.

Dana: 6:36

Nice.

Woody: 6:36

Yeah, yeah, man. So I went straight to straight to five strain. When I heard that B note, oh yeah. That's all I needed here. I'm like, four-stream, the E doesn't really sound like I want something that's like sounds like you know, we just dropped a few bombs out of the Pacific.

Dana: 6:56

I like you already. I like you already. That's what I was doing.

Woody: 7:00

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, look, I'm already making friends with this guy. You talk you guys told me to be like cool, don't be like, you know, like okay, Woody, just don't say too much. Yeah, you know, uh listen. So anyway.

Dana: 7:18

You know, they they just don't give us bass players enough respect. So I feel you. I feel I feel you, man.

Woody: 7:23

They don't, they don't. Um so yeah, so I started like when I was 40. So I think uh kind of how the uh if I made it how kind of the idea of the band started was just uh I felt led to uh to do I I've always felt led to ministry, probably in the last 10 to 11 years, um felt called to that. So uh I didn't want to create like a gospel like Christian contemporary. There's like so many of those. And my original idea was to create a band with someone and who had a who had the vocal chops like Scott Stapp from Creed. Um, because I saw Creed as a successful model, and I thought he had a unique voice, and if I could find someone like that, I could really get the message of Christ out to everybody. Um and so usually God has a different plan than we do. So um it actually became when I when I met with Mark, which was like within a month of me posting on Craigslist, he had answered the ad. Um he had been writing a lot of stuff that you know uh very composer oriented and a symphonic feel to it. And um I was like, okay, well the Lord, this is where you want us to go. I want me to go with this. It's not gonna be like, you know, Creed Rock. Um and so yeah, and so uh I just kind of took to the bass. Um I don't know. I think it's because this is it's just I I just I feel the drums, I feel the rhythm in my head. I mean, I don't know how uh you're Robert, right? Robert. Um I don't know how you think about it, but I you just kind of feel it. Like you just you just can kind of sense the beat of the of music easier, maybe than other people who try to pick up the bass. It's just kind of feels second, you know. Um just feels kind of natural. So I just I thought I'd be better at it than I ever was with guitar. So um still have yet to be seen, but yeah, so um so yeah, that's kind of how I got started in days. I was always like Jason said, I was always a Metallica kid. I mean, I listen to everything. Metallica, man of war. Um, I was off a I was a jock, so I would get all pumped up before games and hit my head on the on the locker. That explains a lot. You know, and um, yeah, I pay my psychiatrist a lot of money. So like yeah, so well let's go to let's go to you, Mark. Like three, plus car wrecked. So you're saying like a few years ago, I was doing time trials down Interstate 65. Yeah, and I and I slammed on my brakes and I hit the divider rail and had a concussion.

Speaker: 11:04

Oh no.

Woody: 11:06

Yeah, it's just normal. Yeah, my wife's a nurse, so she's like, ah, well, you're gonna be a good one.

Dana: 11:13

Oh, you're yeah, you're alright then.

Speaker: 11:15

You're all right. You're a good yeah, right.

Woody: 11:20

Back out there.

Dana: 11:21

All right, Mark, let's take it to you since we talked to the bass player. You know, we gotta talk to the drummer next.

unknown: 11:26

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 11:28

That's right, yeah. So uh sure. Um, so yeah, you earlier on your I went to uh you you saw my uh front line. Uh I went to undergrad. I'm a classically trained guy. Um so my major instrument actually wasn't drums or piano, it's marimba. So I'm a concert percussionist for marimba, and I was and then uh what's funny is I always before that was like a jazz drummer or a little bit of a uh funk drummer, played of actually fusion. I was a big fusion guy.

Speaker: 11:57

Oh wow.

Mark: 11:58

So huge Weckle fan back in the day. Uh yeah, just shop master, Dennis Chambers fan, huge Dennis Chambers fan. And then you get into some of the Latin greats out there, uh listen to a lot of them. More on the Latin side than on the jazz side, but don't tell anybody. Oh, wait. In fact, start listening to Dream Theater Symphony X. I was a rush fan back in the day as well. Um, moved over to uh introduced to a band called Camelot, hence the shirt. Big fan of Camelot and uh Alex, if you're watching, hey bro. Um great great guys, great guy in the band. Um absolutely a big fan of uh Camelot. Um and uh that's how I was introduced to bands like Nightwish, Your Xandria, and Epica. Um thanks to I'm gonna say Pandora, I didn't even know those bands existed until about 2006, 2007. So it was great, yeah, it was great timing. So yeah, so there's my story, and uh yeah, uh so I play both drums and keys in the band and uh um in the studio I do the key parts but also orchestration.

Dana: 12:58

So okay, on to you, Cassandra.

Cassandra : 13:03

All right, well I'm made vocal for um for about five years. I've done uh professional training for classical and contemporary vocal. Uh I've been overall singing for about 10 years now. If I mainly count when I started as a child, I'm a lot longer, but um my mom and my grandmother were classically trained, so it was making where they taught uh grown up, and my mom taught me the music, and I tried to basically just do ads for church services, and uh then as a teenager I got into uh hard rock and metal because I get that from my dad and my mom into contemporary classical Christian music, and then my dad's a little head. So I have both of them extend to me. So when I got into middle school, I started uh discovering about Evan Him. That was in um 2012. I was just getting to know who they were, and I liked it a lot, and then as I got into high school, I first saw the video by my beautiful from Nightwish, and that was the first exposure I ever had for symphonic metal, and I loved it, and I started watching more and more of the I can fell in love with it because it makes both of the backgrounds I I grew up with. And around I would say 22 is when I started trying to find a band to finally um be able to use um some teaching I had at the time, just basic teaching, and um no one really liked my voice back, so they were wanting something that was lower and more masculine sounding, which was I think they really didn't know what they wanted at the time. They would say that, oh yeah, let's have a green front of the band, and then they would get up here because it wasn't low enough or harsh enough, and so a lot of the uh additions I didn't go well finally formed something in uh in 2019 and then COVID hit, and so we just basically writing and then over the uh following years of 2019. Um I think we don't know what to do. Um I don't think relationship with the waiting to see what he was gonna do for me. I wanna say something like that. And then I heard uh scrolling through them, seeing if there was anything new, and then I found out that everyone was looking for a front woman. And I've heard them before that was from an old family of mine. And I knew that they did symphonic metal, and that was about it. So um, so I knew of them because they were chatting about whether they were going to be the ones that we opened for or if there was anybody else, but there's hardly any symphonic metal here in this state. So um so we were probably gonna be like the only two bands from the old group that I was with. And uh when I went ahead and saw their post, I was like, well, let's give it a shot, see how it goes, and see if they like me or not. Because at that time I was getting pretty shot down emotionally because when you get told that you're not gritty enough or you're not good enough or something, and and all that, it's just it it really it's a killjoy. Yeah, it so um I went ahead and interviewed with them, had two um two uh testing of um auditions, thank you. I couldn't think of a word. That's one word I can't think of all the time. But audition, um, I had two auditions, and um about an hour after I left for the second audition, they asked me to come on board, and I said absolutely.

Rob: 18:11

Obviously working well, yeah.

Cassandra : 18:13

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's kind of like a small summary of background.

Dana: 18:19

Awesome. Well, you know, part of our uh our podcast is you know, some of our earlier episodes we always talk about you know the trials and tribulations of even getting a band to the point where they're creating music together. Because by the time you go through the different attitudes and and all the stuff that it takes to form a band and the dynamics, yeah. Yeah, we we call it a it's it's like a family. I mean, you guys you'll spend more time together than you do with your significant other. It really is. You're right. So it's it's good to see you know, all of you guys, the way you're talking about each other into each other, that it looks like this is something that's definitely pretty pretty solid, and that's good to see because you don't know how many times well, just me and my brother here, how many times we've gone through people just trying to find that right unity. It's it's it's a tough deal.

Jason: 19:07

It really is. It is, man. It's like a perfect combination of like talent and personal chemistry, right?

Speaker: 19:15

Right.

Jason: 19:16

You can be the greatest musician on the planet, but if you've got an ego or you just you have clashing personalities and all that kind of stuff, just the dynamic doesn't work, man. So any any it's it's that's been part of our struggle, too. Like anytime you bring a new piece into the band, you always have that kind of like shakeup of the dynamic, right? You don't know how this new person's gonna fit, you don't know how everybody's gonna get along, and right so it's it's always a little bit of a struggle, and and you know, we've been really fortunate this time around that you know Cassandra's been a great fit for us, and personality-wise, talent-wise, I mean across the board has just been a great fit. So we're we're pretty optimistic.

Rob: 19:55

All right, well, we're gonna make sure we put links to your website and all your and all your socials on our our website as well. Yep. But uh, what do you what are your upcoming plans as far as touring and uh recording?

Speaker 4: 20:10

Well, so we are I just recorded all the drum parts. Uh okay. Yeah, and then uh drums are done, um guitars are uh yeah, guitars are in progress, and then uh uh as soon as vocals are down, I'll have a I'll have some pre-orchestration done, and then once uh the final vocals are in, I'll finalize the orchestration and go from there.

Speaker: 20:30

So you're pretty much the engineer then, huh? Perfect answer. Yeah.

Speaker 4: 20:37

Uh I wouldn't I wouldn't say uh that so much, maybe pre-mix, but uh yeah. So we are tracking. We all kind of track how we're doing that. Yes, we do.

Jason: 20:47

Yeah, we're we're trying to build kind of some small home studios, like I was saying, so we can, you know, obviously we're not set up to do drums, that's a little more complex, but like guitar bass, even vocals here lately. Um, we're trying to get to where we can cut some of that stuff at home. So, one that gives us a little more control, like I said, and two, it you know, it saves a ton of money. Yes, it does be able to do that versus having to go to a studio and pay, you know, X number of dollars per an hour and and track that way, it just gives us a lot more flexibility. Uh, we can kind of work on our own timeline and and so forth. So it's it's been good so far, and we hope to kind of continue to develop that and kind of build up some of our own equipment and be a little more self-sufficient, I guess. Yeah, exactly.

Dana: 21:31

Do you guys have a um do you have a booking agent or a manager, or did you do all that yourself too?

Jason: 21:38

No, we don't have anybody. I mean, we've got some folks that we looked at, and we've got uh a couple people working with us that kind of help with promotion and do some of that, but for the most part, it's it's a full DIY type of a scenario.

Rob: 21:51

So how about your videos? You guys self-produce those as well?

Jason: 21:57

Uh no, we actually do. We've got a videographer out of Indianapolis that we've we've done a couple of projects with him before, and then we we just recorded a third with him um what two weeks ago, three weeks ago. Um that's for a new single that we're working on right now. So yeah, and he's a great guy, he's super talented. He's he's done a lot of different uh videos for different types of artists, he's done a short film, he's he's got a lot of stuff under his belt, and and um and he's relatively affordable, you know, our realm. So uh we were very fortunate to come across him and he's done some great work so far, and we're we're pretty excited about this next one. I I know he's got some good shots, and he's kind of going through the editing process now, so we're looking forward to seeing that here pretty shortly.

Speaker 2: 22:43

Okay, yeah, he's very fun to work with, very chill, very great.

Rob: 22:47

That makes it easier.

Jason: 22:49

Absolutely, yeah. He's a great guy.

Speaker 6: 22:53

Yeah, he is drone.

Dana: 22:56

I'll talk about that actually. You gotta have a drone, you gotta have a drone for certain shots, right?

Jason: 23:03

Yeah, I'm excited to see what he does with it. For sure.

Dana: 23:07

So we just got done talking with um some bands in the UK, you know, and talking about how their shows and and they're having problems with you know, with all these shows, you get pre-sale tickets. And do you guys have to deal with that up there in the Midwest also? Because we're we're trying to see what it's like in different parts of the country and you know, in the different countries and how they how they deal with that. So, with your shows, is it all pre-sale or is it the stuff that's already booked and you hope to get people indoor?

Jason: 23:35

It's it's a little of both, yeah. We've done the pre-sale thing, especially in the smaller clubs and that sort of stuff. Uh, then you get into like playing some festivals and different things, and that's a little bit different setup and a different dynamic, and and how it's promoted and and how it's funded and all that kind of stuff can be a little a little different to to work with, but yeah, we've definitely seen both sides of that for sure.

Rob: 23:59

And do you have anything planned for 26, 2026?

Jason: 24:05

Um not well once moment. Yeah, go ahead, Mark.

Speaker 4: 24:12

I was gonna say I could jump in on the sure. Um, so uh what I I've reached out, I've already spoken to a few clubs for 2026, um, and just basically planted the seed, nothing has been booked, but the short answer is we're waiting until this new video and single release uh releases so they know our sound, and then we start we'll all start talking to them a little bit more direct, or we'll have we may we may get a booking agent, we're still not sure. So, whatever works best for our model right now.

Woody: 24:39

So and I would add that um so we're kind of in a spot that's kind of in the middle of kind of reinventing the band a little bit. So if you guys have seen our videos that we have out there, you know we've had about one, two, three, we've had like a total of four four vocalists. So now so Casey's our fifth vocalist. And I think in the past, if you're a band that you know, you get a lot of good feedback about your music, but then if you see when it comes to shows, if you're kind of lacking in some areas of your showmanship, I think that you know, if you can find people who are trusted people who number one, are not your family, that will and what I mean by trusted people who will tell you honestly, not objectively, objectively, like you know, it's kind of like when you're when you're learning the scene, the the rule is you never ask your family if you're a good singer, never ask your wife, never ask your parents, your mom's always gonna tell you you sound so good. She ain't gonna tell you that you sound like tell me how great I am. She ain't gonna tell you that you sound like you're in Sesame Street singing into a garbage can. Like you know, like what was that guy's name on Sesame Street that was in the garbage can?

Speaker 6: 26:07

Oscar? Oscar.

Woody: 26:11

Yeah, after the grouch, yeah. I'm the bassist, I'm supposed to be Oscar. So basically smell like him too. Um that's the drummer, let's be honest. But yeah, so like the joke is still, I think we've evaluated that and we said, okay, where do we think that we really need uh to really prove ourselves out better? And we're really gonna be working on that. So um, and then our music has always it's always had symphonic elements to it, but when you listen, each song's a little different. But what's what's hard, and a lot of people don't understand, is you gotta find a mixing engineer that knows how to mix symphonic elements. We've got like 250 tracks on a song, and you wouldn't think that oftentimes by listening to our music, but um that's because our symphonic elements have never really been at the at the front of the mix. So we're really being conscious and talking to our engineer that hey, we want like the symphonic side, like when you listen to Nightwish, when you listen to um the Epica, they're all front. So um we're we're open, we're open our fans see that, and then we're hoping that we kind of have a much better stage presence, and then we can say, okay, like what promoters, this is what we can do on stage, um, and then be able to start getting more shows because ultimately we want to be able to headline. Um, and so yeah, but um a lot of people don't I don't think understand that sometimes, you know, it's it's not just as easy as going out and saying, hey, I want to go and play at your club at your oh yeah, yeah, and then you know, that's what the general public thinks too.

Dana: 28:09

They're like, Oh, you got a band together, just go out and play. It's like, well, you know, that was that easy.

Woody: 28:13

Oh yeah. I mean this is the first band I put together, and I thought it was gonna be so easy. I thought we'll start playing in the garage, we'll make music, and we'll just go play. Like people will just go in and start playing. And I was like, wow, what a ghost of the reality.

Dana: 28:32

So you walk up to a real musical world. Okay, so I'm I'm gonna go there and go with uh typical, it's stereotypical band and and what everybody is supposed to be like according to the world. Um you know, the drummer is the crazy one, you know, the one that's always partying to get in trouble. You know, the bass player is the quiet one that you know is keeps trying to keep trying to keep the band together, you know, the guitar player is just you know the egocentrical, you know, guy that's gotta take all the stage, you know, and then the singer, of course, is just the wild one. Um how how close are we to that on you guys?

Woody: 29:13

Like the zeroes across the board. All right, that's what I want to take over here for. Yep.

Jason: 29:19

At least for us. Yep.

Rob: 29:21

Okay, band dynamics. Is it more of a democracy, or is there like one like point person, or how does that work?

Woody: 29:29

The key is always democracy. The key is do not have for the love of those. Don't have Madonna's in your band.

Rob: 29:38

There you go.

Woody: 29:40

You have to root out any type of person that is not democratic, isn't that their way is the highway, like you just can't have that. So true. It's not sustainable.

Speaker 2: 29:55

Yeah, I've been through it myself before, and it's not fine.

Rob: 30:01

Oh yeah, but it's been a musician for any length of time that I'm sure has gone through the yeah.

Woody: 30:06

So to give you an idea, so like I'm the introvert of the group. So no, so like that's a woody debase, right? Like Jason's kind of uh more um, I would say he compare myself to others. It's like it Jason's the qualities that I would more like to have. He seems to be a little bit more level-headed and kind of calm, and I don't have those all the time. Um, I think I tend to be very objective, but I'm also very extrovert. I have been my whole life. That's just me. So I'm definitely don't fit the bass stereotype. Um I'm definitely not a John Mion, both how I play and my personality, that's for sure. Um and boy and I are very slow. Right, right. You're already a step ahead there. Yeah. So Mark and I are probably the closest in terms of personalities. Uh we're both engineers and we're both analytical. And uh we can just kind of already know what each other's probably thinking when we come up to a problem that we need to solve. So yeah.

Dana: 31:26

Well, that works out very good. I mean, being the bot the being the bottom end, I mean, that is it doesn't get any better now.

Jason: 31:33

Yeah, man. We're locked in.

Rob: 31:39

Okay, for so for our listeners, could you please uh tell them where to find your information about your band? Obviously, your you know your dot com address and your socials. And uh, and then after that, Mark, could you basically tell uh new new musicians, especially percussionists, any advice you would have for those just like maybe going to the high school stage? Like a lot of us have done you know the marching man symphonic and that progression, and and just any good advice for uh new drummers?

Speaker 4: 32:11

Sure. So uh I don't know, I can I can do our socials too, since you asked. Um, so our URL, our main uh uh main website is 3w.divinemartyr.com. So divine martyrs.com is our main uh URL. Uh Facebook is Facebook.com backslash divine martyr. And then Jason, uh, what's our updated IG? Because we're rebuilding it. So I'll let you know.

Jason: 32:38

Yeah, it's divine martyr official.

unknown: 32:40

Okay.

Jason: 32:40

Because we we had an official divine martyr, it got hacked at some point, and we were never able to get back into it. So we flipped it. It's divine martyr official now with a period in between each each word.

unknown: 32:52

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 32:54

I think but we're also on so we're also on Spotify, Deezer, uh, iTunes, uh, YouTube. Uh we have uh we have an X account now as well. We we relaunched that, so that's why there's not too much activity on it. We relaunched that and we have uh Reverb Nation and all the other ones. Um all those are just a Google site away. Google uh go to your go to your uh browser and just uh on Google and just look us up. You'll find you'll find all the information on the rest of those as well. So but as far as like uh drummer drummers who wanted to start on uh get in the program, the first thing I would do is uh one get an instructor. Uh not a I'm not shameless plugging myself, I do teach lessons, but one thing I learned about YouTube is YouTube doesn't tell you what you're screwing up. So there's a lot of people who are like, oh YouTube. I can do that. And the second one, yeah, yeah, exactly. So uh the second one is uh, yeah, second one is get a metronome. And um, I don't I don't want to hear any pain about the metronome. But just remember the metronome is truth, um, and you got to adjust to it. There may be times you don't want to play to it, that's fine, but make sure you can lock in with a click. I always tell my students as well, uh, there's a three-part principle is pet principle, precision, ergonomics, and tonality. So you can play precise, but play sterile and with bad technique in your get carpal tunnel. You can play with great ergonomics, but you can be off the click. So try to balance all three of those together. Um, so make sure you're not playing stiff and make sure you you're locking with a click. But honestly, best things you could do is play with an ensemble, take private lessons and have somebody inspire you, and just keep practicing. I would join a school program if you if you want to do that. Uh, Jazz Band is a great program, drumline is phenomenal. Um, any of those. So that's what I would say to do. And then the biggest thing is if you don't know how to read music, you've got more resources now than you've ever had. So get online, learn how to read music.

Speaker: 34:57

Um, learn your rudiments.

Speaker 4: 34:59

It'll help you in the long run, especially if you're just trying to read something, you know, trying to learn something.

Rob: 35:03

And learn those rudiments, right? Now, do you uh would you would you advise for new drummers to use uh the traditional grip or uh match grip? I noticed in your videos you use both.

Speaker 4: 35:18

Yep, yeah, and it's that's actually a bad habit of mine, which is fine. Um, I if I go to traditional, it's more for groove playing. I'm going back to a fusion mindset. It's just I I switch it's almost like I have a switch and I'm like, okay, we're going to fusion style. Or I'll go back to I need a precise, uh, very precise, linear, yeah, and it's just automatic. I don't think much about it unless I'm just oh like, oh I'll do a visual here and switch hand grips, you know. But uh yeah, traditional is is fine, especially if you're gonna plan on doing either jazz drumming or uh rudimental drumming, go ahead and learn it. That's it's great. But I would start first with match grip and most importantly German grip, uh, which is uh it's the easiest one to check. I actually play if I'm playing match American, which is a switch a little bit uh turned in, where I can use uh finger basically instead of wrist wrists, I can I can start manipulating fingers around the stick. I don't have to use as much wrist, I can make the stick move like that, or on another finger, and that's how I can play blasting, so I don't have to use wrist. So it's little tricks like that. Very good. So thank you.

Dana: 36:20

Okay, on on stage, do you guys use you know regular like floor monitors or are you in-air monitors? What do you what's your preference?

Jason: 36:30

Uh I mean I think for me the preference is always in-air if if we have that capability. Um, the problem is in-airs aren't always good in airs, if that makes sense. Oh yeah. The system may or may not be great. So I mean, we we've had some situations where we were trying to run those and it didn't go so well. But I mean, I I I think it's important to be able to do both and and even rehearse with both, um outside of doing shows, you know, just in your normal practicing and and band rehearsals, to try to do both and and be acclimated to either of those environments because you never know with a given venue or show what what you might be walking into.

Speaker: 37:09

So very good.

Woody: 37:10

I think you may have some other musicians that would scoff what I'm about to say, but if you can play really well with wedges, you're gonna sound amazing as a band with in-ears. But if you play with nothing but in ears and your in-ears go out and you're left with wedges, you're gonna be in trouble.

Jason: 37:31

Your ears screwed, buddy. Right.

Woody: 37:34

I started I started it with in ears. Uh I started playing bass with in ears uh at a local church at the time. And um, and then but but in ears is the only way to go. Number one, you save your hearing, number two, you're just tighter, and but the problem it's so expensive. Like you wouldn't need to do it right, to do it right, it's about eight grand. And when you're a band, because you have to have here's the problem. I don't know if you guys have experience with uh with in-ears, but you can go out and get like X Vibes, which are the kind of the smaller packs, but what happens is is when you go to a and there's some cheaper alternatives than like signheizers or whatever, but when you go to a festival, you have so much 2.4 gigahertz floating around that place you have to pretty much have to have frequency hopping technology to be able to move anywhere on the stage, not have to be line of sight. That's the problem. So if you guys ever play with in-ears, if you have X-Vibes, trust me, you have to be line of sight. And if you're not line of sight with that board in the back with this with the house, yeah, you're gonna have dropouts, and you can't have dropouts when you're on stage. So um but man, that's a prime attack.

Jason: 38:58

I mean, it's a struggle, man. It really is. But I mean, when in ears are dialed in, man, there's absolutely nothing better, right?

Woody: 39:05

And no matter what they say, the house can't sure you you have only if you if you were opening up for bands, you only have a certain amount of time to be ready for your set. You're not the headliner who gets like an hour of prep before the show ever starts, you know, and everything else.

Speaker: 39:25

So he's set up and takedowns pretty quick, right?

Woody: 39:29

So the house is walking up with his iPad, he's like, Okay, how start playing, how do you sound? And you're like, Okay, you know, Casey yelling for the mic, or Mark, start hitting the kick drum, and and he's just dialing you in the best you can get. So that's why having your own setup and everything, that that nice unit, you can dial everything in on your phone and you plug and play when you come to the to the show. Otherwise, sometimes you can be hit or miss. Then you're on stage when you start playing, going, hey, yeah. That doesn't look professional, so it's tough. It can be tough.

Rob: 40:02

Okay, well, we have one moment in our episode that we call Oh shit. Every band has gone through this. For during a performance, you've had to have had something that's gone either really embarrassing or terribly wrong. Can one of you uh represent the band and say uh one of those moments?

Jason: 40:20

Gosh, we've had a few. Well, I mean, the first one that comes to mind, it was one of our early shows, Mark, and I remember you were running tracks off of a laptop and it decided to go into update mode, I think, right in the middle of the spawn. So that yeah, I think from that point we said, okay, we're not doing that anymore. And you started just bringing the little MP3 or whatever, the little iPod and running everything off of that. Yeah, anything with an OS, I guess you you run the risk of having that happen, and it surely did.

Woody: 40:54

So don't forget about like the I would say the worst, but ended up being the best at the end of the day was we were playing a couple years ago in Ohio, and we had a major technical issue, and it was like the last song, and you know, Jason starts playing a little jingle, you know, to kind of give time for Mark to, you know, because you never you never let him see a sweat when you're on stage and something's wrong.

Jason: 41:22

So pretend it's on purpose, right?

Woody: 41:25

Right. And at this point, like we're stuck, and so we happen to be playing a cover that we did quite a bit, just you know, and it was it's easy, it's it's like G D E C. That's that's the chords, and so and it happens to be a cover of a popular Christian contemporary musician, her name is Carrie Joby, but we made it into metal, so it's called Forever. And so we were there was like a bunch of bands there, a lot of people were there, and so we were just like, let's just do it. So I just turned around and said, Let's do forever. And we had played before just with Mark, you know, Mark did not have a track, and um, people yelled out, yeah, go ahead and do it, do it. You don't need no track. So we just played it, and um, we ended up getting an encore off that set.

Jason: 42:15

So yeah, it worked out well, but yeah, it's frustrating in the moment.

Speaker 4: 42:22

I've got a little more on that. I was gonna say I've got a little more on that story. It's uh the packing the packing track system uh took a uh we'll say gravity assist fall like this off the stage, and that's what caused the problem. So I blank gravity, though gravity is very nice and holds you on the ground in some cases it caused problems. So here we are. So we survived. Yep.

Dana: 42:49

Okay, so Cassandra, this one's for you. You know, you're you've got you've got all these boys around you over here. It's like uh how how do you handle it? Are are you the mother of the of the group here? You keep everybody in control. No, they are guys can be when they start playing with their toys and stuff. You know, we're just like little kids. I mean, we need direction.

Rob: 43:16

Yep.

Speaker 6: 43:17

True story.

Rob: 43:19

How often do you how often do you guys rehearse?

Speaker 6: 43:22

Whoa, whoa, whoa. What was good?

Rob: 43:25

Did you hear your gun? How often do you guys uh rehearse?

Speaker 4: 43:31

You said play with toys, so I I queued up uh I queued up a nice.

Rob: 43:39

Well my kids play her across the room here.

Speaker 2: 43:45

Um well we practice uh we try to practice every Friday, and um sometimes we get carried away, you know, with you know usual chit-chatting and remembering things that messed up or anything like that. Like I never performed live yet, but I I'd say the most funniest mess up I ever had was with my old band, and we were really practicing for a show, and the guitar has just got a little too close to my windmill. So my hair got caught in the head of his guitar, and I was like and so he had to stop for a minute and try to get my hair out of it, and then I just uh just kept going.

Rob: 44:36

You gotta keep going. I had to cry to react.

Speaker 2: 44:39

But you know, um that's the only thing I can remember.

Speaker 4: 44:42

Sounds like spinal tap. Yeah, just a different goodness.

Speaker 2: 44:46

Yeah, he got way too close. He was trying to headbang with me, and then he didn't realize he was too close to my hair.

Speaker 6: 44:54

Oh man, I can see that as well.

Speaker 2: 44:57

Oh well. So I have learned to try to stay in the middle of a like a stage set and make sure if I'm ever doing that, I have my own space.

Jason: 45:06

Or if someone's gonna do it with me, good part is you don't have to worry about that.

Rob: 45:11

Yeah, we both play headbush guitar. Oh, there you go. He's got a headphones. Incredible kosher guitars.

Speaker 6: 45:19

All right, yes. Right, coacher. I love it.

Speaker 2: 45:22

But no, I don't have to mother anything. I just uh enjoy the getting carried away. But sometimes we do have to uh one of them has to get me to stop nerding out about vocal theory. So I have for a minute.

Speaker: 45:39

It sounds like you guys have good dynamics.

Dana: 45:42

Yeah, it's it's great to see the camaraderie between you guys. That's that's amazing. So when you're on stage, do you guys have any do you choreograph anything to where you're not running into each other at certain points, or is it just a free-for-all?

Speaker 2: 45:55

At the moment, we're just uh that's the plan.

Speaker 4: 45:59

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think we're wanting to lean more into that. After the concussions, we have to choreograph. Exactly right. Yep, exactly. We're compelled.

Speaker 2: 46:12

Yeah, because we have a huge, huge space, and we're like miles apart from each other, so we're gonna have to like put tape on the floor to kind of mirror.

Dana: 46:20

This is your block. So windmill here.

Woody: 46:29

I'm the guy that runs around like I'm the big guy that just like can't really move all up, but he tries. So kind of awkward moving around. Yeah.

Dana: 46:40

Okay, so e each one of you, um, let's start with you, Jason. Uh, main it main influences and and what at what point, at what age did you realize that music is what you wanted to do in life? Good question.

Jason: 46:53

Oh goodness. Um I really started getting into music. I mean, I I had an older brother that listened to a lot of stuff, so I I grew up with like Van Halen, Iron Maiden, that kind of stuff. I really started getting into music on my own, probably 11, 12 years old, something like that, so late 80s. Um, and you know, it was really it was Metallica and Anthrax. It was those two, those two bands, and specifically Hetfield and uh Scotty and the rhythm guitarist from Anthrax, those are really the two guys that kind of inspired me to play to pick up a guitar. You know, so I've I've I've taken a lot of different influence over the years. I mean, Petrucci from uh from Dream Feeder. Uh there's a classically trained metal guitarist named James Murphy. He's played a lot of extreme metal bands. He played for Testament for a while. Um, he's kind of been around for ages, and then Alex Gulnik from Testament actually was another guy. And and the thing that stood out about those guys is they were they played heavy music, but they were also incredibly melodic.

Rob: 47:55

Right.

Jason: 47:55

You know, like classically trained, and they were able to kind of incorporate melody in a way that a lot of heavy metal players just weren't capable of doing or just had chosen not to, or whatever. Um, so I always lean toward the more melodic players like that, and those those guys had a lot more influence on me than than most of the others. So that's that's kind of my main source of inspiration, if you will.

Speaker: 48:21

Okay. Woody.

Woody: 48:24

Oh man, you know, I have to say that my inspiration, the reason why I got into bass was because of Ryan Martini. So uh Ryan Martini, in my opinion, is probably one of the best bass guitarists in the last 25 years. Uh if you recall, if you don't recall, he was the bassist from Mud Bang uh back in the 90s, and uh he's now um shoot, what is his side project? It's like a jazz fusion that he does. Um he was sponsored by Warren, and now he's doing Federo bases, which are like they start at like eight grand. I think his signature bass is like $11,000 or something. Ryan Martini, I would say like he he's the inspiration for like me always wanting to move around on bass, not be like just sitting in the pocket, just I want to I like to move around the neck, I like to do different type of like stuff with the court. Like I rarely will be like if our court structure is A B C D, I'll rarely ever be ABCB. It'll be something that complements that right off of Jason. So um uh things like that. Um and then probably the only other one would probably be Cliff Burton because I love the way Cliff always played um very much kind of like a guitarist, and um I can't help but I I really like doing kind of solo stuff, like kind of trying to get the bass out in the front here and there. Um so uh it it also helps me be able to really just increase my learning of the bass, learn a lot more theory. Mark's been an inspiration on that because he'll talk a lot about, oh, you know, that's a dissonant chord, and I'm like, that sounds great to me, but what is that? I'll look it up. Yeah, you know, like Bebop minor, B flat scale. And I'm like, oh, let's go work it, let's go check it out, you know. And and so it I I think that I I hope that you that we we might even be able to add more progressive elements to our symphonic music and really be unique. Um so I don't know, yeah, it's kind of my thing. But Ryan Martini, he's like, I love the guy.

Rob: 50:43

So and Mark, you have some incredible double beat better or double uh you know beater pattern. So uh what who's your inspiration behind that? And then uh same question as uh Dana asked, you know, when did you start and uh when did you know you wanted to be a drummer?

Speaker 4: 51:00

Okay, well, I started when I was 11 uh playing production, so that was uh a few years ago since uh I'm not supposed to admit that I'm older than 39, so we'll say it's pretty good. Um so yeah, it's been a few years ago. Uh it is what it is. Um, but yeah, so uh uh I started honestly my my first big influence I think was actually my first the first band I listened to was either the Beach Boys or Billy Joel, because they that's what was on the radio all the time, so I learned those parts. But the first drummer I was really into was actually uh Neil from Rush. So Neil Pierp. So we started listening to a lot of rush back in the day. I think I learned I had both of the Rush compilation books and I played through the whole books. Um so I learned uh I remember natural science was absolutely for at the time I thought it was a monster and it was fun to play. Uh, but I actually then it went to I was a big fan of I said uh Weckle in when I was in college. Weckle and and Carter uh Carter Buford from Dave, as well as uh Dennis Chambers, so a lot of those pocket drummers. But went to uh I started hearing what Jason said uh Dream Theater. So we started hearing him, I started listening to Port Noy and his patterns, and uh was a big fan of Man Gini as well when he was in Dream Theater. Honestly, my biggest influence would probably be Casey Grillo from Camelot, um, Thomas Lane, who is a monster. You haven't checked him out yet. Um, and then honestly, my drummers, the drummers I listen to change every year. So, like lately, it's like I'll listen to some of the stuff like the exercises that Alex Cohen puts out. So he'll be playing with his like rudiment patterns, like hybrid rudiment patterns, right hand and right foot in 1516, and then in his left hand and left foot in I don't know, some other prime number over eight, you know, and he'll have those together and make him groove. So he's uh just insanely good drummer, and then while at the same time playing book reports with his feet at 250 or something, just in insanely fast, good, clean drummer. Um so he's uh inspiration. I listened to uh I actually chat occasionally with uh Alex from uh Camelot. He has some good exercises, um, and he replaced Casey, and then I listened, I mentioned Alex uh Cohen, um, who is the guy I just talked about. So honestly, I listened, I I find a new drummer like for a year or two. Um try to find some new guys to listen to. I was listening to the lady who uh Anika, I think I don't know how to pronounce her name, who just joined Rush from the reunion. And she's a fusion fellow fusion drummer, so I'm just like sweet. Yeah, she's an amazing drummer. So you know, I'll listen, I'll listen, I'll listen to her stuff, and it's like and uh the drummingo channel. It's basically what I listen to is stuff that I could learn. It's basically I listen to learn and to improve, it's not really per se for enjoyment. Then on top of that, it's like I'll go back and listen to uh zappa's old drummers, you know, go through the whole Frank Zappa lineup, so which is in itself a whole drumming school, and especially when you try to play the black page, it's pretty insane. So it was that way.

Speaker: 54:03

So very cool. And at what age did you start?

Speaker 4: 54:07

Hopefully I answered the question.

Dana: 54:08

Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 4: 54:10

11.

Speaker: 54:11

Oh, that's right, okay.

Dana: 54:12

And Cassandra, on to you.

Speaker 2: 54:16

Uh let's see. I would say Taylor Swift. Oh, heck no.

Speaker: 54:24

Obviously.

Speaker 2: 54:27

No. Sorry. Um, I would say the the first singer that made me want to get into classical singing was uh Tadya Turner.

Speaker 6: 54:42

I'm sorry.

Speaker 2: 54:42

When I first listened to uh Tadia from uh Nightwish. That was the first time I ever heard uh uh opera vocals with metal. And as I started listening to uh Exandria and I think Epica was a little later, but Alexandria and Nightwitch were my main favorites that inspired me to want to do those big vocals and the high notes and everything because it takes a lot of training to be able to do it, and a lot of people like to be able to do them and just jump into it, but then you can damage yourself really quickly. So when I wanted to get into that and was inspired to do it, I knew I had to take vocal lessons for it, and I had to be very picky on who uh I was going to train with because nowadays online anybody just can call themselves a vocal code without even seeing you know actually going to school for it. So a lot of them like to make up their own you know curriculum and they don't even know if it's trained in three or not. So when I went to my vocal feature, yeah, okay, what are the things that you're wanting to learn? I didn't know what to think. So I don't know what I mean. Um every so often during the lesson, he would have to meet from going to my lowest to my highest. And then as I kept going higher and higher and higher, that's when he was kind of saying, Hey, you need to take the offer, you're going very well with it. And I said, Okay, then I'll go and stick with it. And um I think uh once I got to like 2024, that's when I finally was able to master a lot of the songs I dreamt of doing and got inspired to do. So I I wasn't always dreaming of being like an operatic singer, but just singing in general for metal was a big thing. And I was blessed to be able to have a teacher to teach me both opera and contemporary belting for like rock and and metal, and being able to do them both and switch them out whenever I want to.

Dana: 57:24

So well, you sound you sound amazing. I mean, there's no doubt about it. So, whatever whatever you've been doing is definitely working. As for each each of you, I mean, individually, you all guys you sound you sound great as a as a band, it's it's amazing. Um I'm so glad we had the opportunity to talk to you guys and listen to your stuff, and we're definitely gonna throw your name out to the world.

Rob: 57:47

Well, thank you guys very much for uh participating in our on our uh podcast, and it's been a pleasure speaking to you. You're uh sound like a great group of guys or you know, people in the in this uh band. And and uh I just really appreciate it. Thank you. Uh, we will definitely put your information on our website if we have your permission.

Speaker 6: 58:06

Absolutely.

Rob: 58:07

Okay, very cool. All right, well, you guys have a great night, and thank you very much.

Speaker 6: 58:11

You as well, thank you for having us.

Dana: 58:19

That was awesome. Really cool talking to those guys. Sounds like a really dedicated band, and it's so much fun talking to them. So, in closing, you know, I you know, Rob always does his little uh inspirational speech, so I've got one to close us with. And mine is to play a wrong note is insignificant, but to play without passion is inexcusable. I mean, how how true is that for our show? Uh all right, you guys.

Rob: 58:45

Thank you very much again. And uh please do check out Divine Martyr, they're an amazingly talented band. And we will, like I said, we'll put a link on our socials to their information as well. But thank you very much for listening and goodbye. Goodbye. Thank you.