Words That Welcome: Mastering Inclusive Communication

In this episode of The Inclusive Edge: The Power of Diversity, I am Andrea joined by Mo Kanjilal Williams, co-founder of Watch This Space with expertise in inclusive communication, to explore the vital role of inclusive language in today’s workplaces. Together, we dive into how intentional language choices can foster environments where everyone feels seen, valued, and respected.

Mo shares insights on the impact of inclusive language, emphasising that small shifts in words and phrases can create powerful connections, the importance of respecting pronouns as a simple yet effective way to validate identity and build trust. 

For those beginning their inclusive language journey, Mo highlights easy first steps, from becoming aware of language patterns to diversifying media consumption to broaden perspectives. The episode wraps up with guidance for organisations looking to support inclusive language and create a culture where respect and inclusivity are the standard.

Listeners will come away with actionable tips on how to adopt inclusive communication practices in their own workplaces. This conversation reminds us that language is powerful—and with intention, it can be a force for inclusion and belonging.

Tune in to learn how to harness the power of words to create a more inclusive and dynamic work environment!

Book url – use code KOGANPAGE20 for 20% off - https://www.koganpage.com/responsible-business/the-inclusion-journey-9781398616721

Tedx talk - https://youtu.be/iPDsC4LPPc0?

Chapters

• 0:10 The Power of Inclusive Language
• 10:06 Promoting Inclusive Language in Organizations

Transcript

Andrea Derbyshire (00:10)
Hello everyone and welcome back to the Inclusive Edge, the power of diversity podcast, a podcast dedicated to helping leaders and HR professionals create fair, inclusive and dynamic workplaces where everyone can thrive.

Im Andrea Derbyshire and today we're diving into the topic, the power of inclusive language, is vital in creating welcoming environments for everyone. We'll be talking about to everyday terminology making sure that everyone feels seen and valued.

And to discuss this important topic today with me I have the guest Mo Kanjilia Williams, who's experienced in inclusive communications and is co-founder of Watch This Space. Mo, welcome to the show. I'm really excited to have you here with us today. Please could you introduce yourself to the listeners and tell us a little bit about your background.

Mo Kanjilal (01:01)
Yeah, hi, Andrea. It's really great to be here. Thanks so much for having me on. So I'm Mo Cangela Williams. I'm one of the co-founders of Watch This Space, a diversity inclusion company where we work with lots of different types of employers, lots of different types of organizations to help them understand what changes they need to make, how to engage employees, how to make those changes. And we do training with people to help really solidify those things. And inclusive communication is one of the topics we do training on.

And my background is that I used to work in technology corporations, they're really big tech corporations where it wasn't diverse. I was different to everyone else there. I did progress my career. I was in a senior management role in sales and marketing, but it was hard. It was tough. And so that's why I've always focused on diversity and inclusion. And after I left corporate, it was actually during the pandemic that my business partner and I were on a Zoom call in lockdown.

Andrea Derbyshire (01:29)
Thanks

Mo Kanjilal (01:54)
And we said, it's not just about women in tech, is it? It's a bigger problem. Like, do we want to do something about it? So that's when we founded our business in April, 2020. And we've now grown. So we now have a team around the country and we work with all different types of employers. And we've written a book, which we've published in August as well.

Andrea Derbyshire (02:09)
amazing.

Okay, can you tell us a little bit about the book? Mo, that sounds fascinating.

Mo Kanjilal (02:17)
Yeah,

so the book's called The Inclusion Journey and it's about how you take an organization through an inclusion journey. We've interviewed loads of people in the book. It's got lots of great stories in it about what other organizations have done and lots of data and research. And it essentially takes people through the work that we do, which we call inclusion journey mapping. So it takes you through all the different steps and shows you examples of how you can make changes. So

People can buy the book and if they only implement a few things from it, they'll already start to make changes in what they're doing.

Andrea Derbyshire (02:49)
That sounds really interesting. Can you share where the book is available? We can put it in the show notes as well.

Mo Kanjilal (02:54)
Yes,

absolutely. Yeah, so it's available on Amazon if you just search the inclusion journey, but it's also available other book retailers like Waterstones, WH Smiths, places like that. But if you go to the Kogan Page website, this is our publisher, koganpage.com. And if you enter the code Kogan Page 20, you get 20 % off.

Andrea Derbyshire (03:15)
fantastic. Thank you for sharing that and thank you as well for sharing a little bit about your background and experience. I'm sorry to hear that you've barriers your progression we can just start to think now the inclusive language. So when we talk about inclusive language we're really talking about more than just the words that we use aren't we?

you tell listeners why do you think inclusive language is really so important today in terms of the workplace but also society?

Mo Kanjilal (03:46)
Yes, so essentially language is the way we communicate with each other. It's the system that we use to communicate with each other. And if we think about how we do that, we want to make connections with people. So we want to reach people, we want to make connections with people, we want to engage them into wanting to communicate with us. And so to do that, we need to really think about how to include people in how we're communicating with them. It helps people to feel valued and...

Andrea Derbyshire (03:50)
Yeah.

Mo Kanjilal (04:11)
you're drawn into the communications and it can really help people to feel engaged in what you're doing and how you're communicating. And on the flip side, if you don't use inclusive language and communicate with people in these ways that include them, people can feel disengaged, they can feel alienated, they can feel cut off. And then it depends what your industry is and what you're doing. You also can just fail to reach people.

Andrea Derbyshire (04:17)
Yes.

Mo Kanjilal (04:36)
if you don't use language that includes different types of people. it's one of those topics that covers all roles, whatever you're doing, it's about how would you actually connect with people.

Andrea Derbyshire (04:40)
Yeah.

Yeah, totally agree. And sometimes people, they inadvertently disengage people by using the wrong terminology and the wrong language. I think people generally want to do the right thing and they want to be but they're not always sure where to start. And they often worry about offending people, about saying the wrong thing or being up to date with terminology, et cetera. What are your thoughts about that?

Mo Kanjilal (04:55)
Definitely.

Yeah, so that's the work that we do at Watch This Space. We have a session that we do early on when we work with people where we say, what are the terms and acronyms and things that you don't understand? Let's get that all out into the open and have a chat about it. And you can see the look of relief on people's faces that like, yeah, I really don't understand this. And I don't know how to do this. Because people are worried about saying the wrong thing.

And so they're not sure what to do. And so there's a lot of confusion around it. There's a lot of language, there's a lot of acronyms that are used that people don't understand. So I think it's about unpicking all of that and helping people to say what they don't understand and helping people with language that they can use so that they can include people because people are worried about saying the wrong thing.

Andrea Derbyshire (05:42)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, and I think language is always changing and evolving over time, so something that was acceptable 10 years ago could potentially not be now and even working in you know, equality, diversity and inclusion space, know that language is always changing and evolving, it?

Mo Kanjilal (06:16)
Yeah, all the time. mean, the impact of social media on language is huge. really has changed, it changes things all the time, but it's not just that language changes between generations. So an old word can have a different meaning. If you think about things like wicked, sick, they change their meaning over time. Then people migrating to places adds different things to the language, trading with different places, add things to language and language is changing all the time. There's lots of new words added every year. I think there's something like.

Andrea Derbyshire (06:26)
Yeah.

Mo Kanjilal (06:45)
I think there's like a thousand new words actually make it into use every year. So there's loads more that are created, but they don't all make it into use. But language, yeah, all these new things come into use all the time. And there's that dictionary that has a word of the year. I don't know if you follow that. yeah, there's one of the dictionaries, they publish a word of the year every year. And last year's word was Riz. Which is... So I don't, yeah.

Andrea Derbyshire (06:47)
Wow, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

no, not seeing.

Yeah. Right. Okay. I know that got teenagers and they are familiar with that language and some of the terminology that they use.

Mo Kanjilal (07:15)
So I don't have teens that's why I was thinking, what does that mean? to look it up and it's short for charisma. So yeah.

Andrea Derbyshire (07:20)
Yeah, yeah.

And also the meaning of words sometimes change as well because we know that some words if they're used in an offensive way sometimes they can be reclaimed and then used in a positive way in particular communities. Can we talk about pronouns and why it's so important that we get people's pronouns right? is your views on that Mo?

Mo Kanjilal (07:31)
Definitely.

Yeah.

Yeah, pronouns, the debates about pronouns. So, I mean, the use of pronouns is about helping people to validate their identity, people what gender you are. It's a really simple way for people to indicate that. And if you add your pronouns to signatures or you encourage people to share their pronouns, it creates a safe space for people.= to feel that they can say that there are they. It just shows that it's something that you care about, about being inclusive. Yeah.

Andrea Derbyshire (08:15)
Yeah, it normalises it as well for everyone doesn't it? It just becomes custom and practice that you have your pronouns on your email signatures or on your ID badges etc.

Mo Kanjilal (08:24)
Yeah but it is also, so it can be very divisive. The amount of training sessions I've run where somebody in the room is arms folded and doesn't agree with it. And you have to really get that out and talk to people about it. I think sometimes it's a place of fear. They fear something around using it and you have to just explore that with people to unpick why it is they feel that way about it, because it can be a topic that really divides people.

Andrea Derbyshire (08:49)
Yeah.

And it's not an objection to them personally using their pronouns or about other people using pronouns.

Mo Kanjilal (08:59)
So for example, I think it was maybe last week or maybe the week before I was in a session and there was somebody arms folded saying, well, you can't say anything anymore. And I don't see why you have to say, you why do we have to do that? And when people say that, people say you can't say anything anymore. I usually reply by saying, what is it you want to say?

Andrea Derbyshire (09:17)
Yeah. Yeah.

Mo Kanjilal (09:17)
What is it you feel, you know, and then you have to sort of explore it with people. They, think they're scared sometimes about the change that's coming with changes in language, but you can't stop these things happening. Things are changing. And so it's about helping people to understand it and unpick it with them and kind of uncover what their fears are about it.

Andrea Derbyshire (09:36)
Yeah, yeah, I agree. I just want to make a little bit of a disclaimer now just for the podcast about that. I woke up this morning with a really sore throat and I'm losing my voice. So if my voice sounds quite unusual, that's just the reason why I'm not feeling a bit under the weather and I'm not 100 % today. So just wanted to share that with the listeners. thank you.

Mo Kanjilal (09:57)
You're doing great. I can hear every word.

Andrea Derbyshire (10:02)
And then just thinking about the everyday words that we use, we know that sometimes language, can be unintentionally exclusive. So there's examples like saying you guys when addressing a group and there are more inclusive ways that you can address people by saying everyone or folks. Are there any examples that you could share that you may be using in your training?

Mo Kanjilal (10:25)
Yeah, so using more inclusive terminology just means that you're going to engage with an appeal to people straight away. So if you're meeting people for the first time, you're talking to a group and you use words like people, folks, you you use all those more general terms than very gendered terms, ladies and gentlemen, things like that. It just means you're going to engage people more. You're not going to exclude anyone thing that we said right at the beginning, it's about reaching people and engaging people. But again, I have seen some really, people that really don't like it, and people can really object to these things as well. So you have to really kind of unpick that with people as well. But it's just about using terminology that doesn't exclude people. And so it's just explaining that to people. So again, I was at an event a few weeks ago, where somebody addressed everybody with you guys. And there was somebody there that was quite

Andrea Derbyshire (11:08)
Yeah.

Hmm.

Mo Kanjilal (11:18)
annoyed by it because it kept happening throughout the day, because there was actually someone who is transgender. He said, well, I don't like this, everybody being addressed in this way. And actually, it just needed a bit of unpicking a bit of a discussion to sort of show why I think that's what it needs. But it doesn't always happen in that way. And so it can, again, be something that is that thing, there's a quote somewhere about that, that language is the thing that brings us together because we communicate, but it can also divide. So you have to just consider

Andrea Derbyshire (11:29)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Mo Kanjilal (11:47)
yeah, how we can make real those connections more through language.

Andrea Derbyshire (11:51)
Yeah, lot of my background is in human resources and count of how many times they've referred to people, women working in human resources as the girls in HR, people can find that a bit offensive and infantilizing, like women.

Mo Kanjilal (12:09)
Yeah, and it's would they say the same thing to a group of men working in a department? Would they call them the boys or would they not? There's loads to unpick there as well in the fact that there's a thing around age and how we're using language with different ages as well. There's quite a lot to unpick there. But yeah, when in my corporate days, there used to be all sorts of language, things that used to be said to people that really I don't know why I used to put up with a lot of it.

Andrea Derbyshire (12:14)
Yeah

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. So what tips have you got for listeners who if they're looking to start using more inclusive language, the starting point? What's the first thing they need to do?

Mo Kanjilal (12:44)
There's so many great things that you can do to think about this, but it's really learning, learning, understanding, sort of making sure you engage with like different types of communication. So listen to different podcasts, watch different types of films, read different books, and really try and understand these things. And then consider with the language you're using, whether it could be excluding anybody. Just that's the thing to think about and like, what can you do to learn more?

Andrea Derbyshire (13:00)
Yeah.

Mo Kanjilal (13:12)
We actually have something on our website that's free. So our website is watchthisspace.uk and on our resources page we have a what do we mean by guide. So it's essentially like a dictionary of terminology because we do these sessions so we unpick terminology a lot and so things like that can help you to just understand the different words that are used in the terminology. The other thing that I'd say is be really careful with acronyms. If you're using acronyms you're assuming people know what they mean.

Andrea Derbyshire (13:23)
Yes. Okay.

Mo Kanjilal (13:41)
And actually a lot the time they don't. So we try with our company not to use D E I D N I E D I because everyone uses different things. And if you're quite early stage of looking at these things, you might be confused by all of that and think, what does all that mean? So we try not to be really clear and just use the words and how we communicate with people because you can exclude people through use of slang, of jargons, acronym, lots of industry terminology.

Andrea Derbyshire (13:41)

Yeah.

Mo Kanjilal (14:09)
can exclude people as well. So it's just kind of unpicking all of that and thinking, how can you be really clear in your communication?

Andrea Derbyshire (14:16)
Yeah, just come to mind now with talking about acronyms of the acronym DEI. Yeah, I think that people have used that a negative way. I've seen people saying did not earn it for instance, it stands for diversity, equality and inclusion, but also being from an NHS There's so many large organisations and it just, yeah, can.

Mo Kanjilal (14:28)
Yeah.

Andrea Derbyshire (14:39)
confuse people, can't it? Not understanding what they mean. Yeah.

Mo Kanjilal (14:41)
can really exclude people. So yeah,

we also do work with people on their recruitment communications and a lot of the time companies will say, well, we put these adverts out there and they don't apply for our jobs as if it's the candidate's fault. And then when we look at it, we look at the language and we're like, yeah, it's full of acronyms. And you know, if someone's not in your organization, they're not going to understand what all this means. And often it's just, they just need massively simplifying and just be much clearer in the language. And then that's how you can then reach different people.

Andrea Derbyshire (15:10)
Yeah and the point that you made about diversifying the media that you consume, I think that's really important as well and that's something that I consciously try to do to try to make sure that I'm hearing different voices and people from different backgrounds from myself to give me a broader perspective and understanding issues. So think they're really helpful tips for the listeners. Thank you.

And how do you think organizations can support developing a culture of inclusive language,

Mo Kanjilal (15:38)
And so I think there's loads of things that organizations can do around this that doesn't have to be cost of loads of money. So they can just start to communicate much clearer with people, with employees and encourage that kind of thing. So set out guidelines. It doesn't have to be endless guidelines, but set out guidelines and say, you know, we won't use acronyms. We will use this type of language. We will have pronouns on our email signatures. Things, just things like that, that start to...

Andrea Derbyshire (15:51)
Mm-hmm.

Mo Kanjilal (16:07)
make things much clearer for people. And then there is training you can do. There's books you can read. There's obviously all books, but there's other books too. And just kind of thinking about what language and terminology you're using and how you can be much clearer in it. And then it's about really embedding that in the culture. So the culture being that it's inclusive language, it's being really clear in communications, it's respecting people's differences. It's really just setting the culture to be about those kinds of things.

And I really think it is about having conversations about it too, like talking to people about it and saying, you know, we want to be inclusive. We want to reach different types of people, you know, what, how can we be more inclusive all the time and really setting that up. And I think there's a big role for any leaders to play in this in leading. Yeah. And really leading by being very clear in communications and being inclusive and making sure that they're setting the tone that employees can then see that and engage with that. I think there's.

Andrea Derbyshire (16:52)
Absolutely.

Mo Kanjilal (17:05)
Yeah, lots of different things to do there. And it's the same with a lot of this cup of work. There isn't like one thing, one form you've got to fill in or one box to tick and it's done. It's like lots of different things and it's about ongoing learning as well. Cause there's always new things you can learn. There's these new words coming every day, new ways of doing things. So think it's about that ongoing journey as well of continuing to learn about it.

Andrea Derbyshire (17:13)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, and the senior leadership team, they have a really important role as well in role modeling and setting the tone for culture in the organization. But likewise, everyone has got a part to play a responsibility to try and be more inclusive the way that they communicate with colleagues, developer.

Mo Kanjilal (17:47)
Yeah, definitely.

Definitely, yeah.

Andrea Derbyshire (17:49)
Are there any final points that you want to leave listeners with Mo.

Mo Kanjilal (17:54)
Just that it is about getting started with this and thinking what could I do to simplify my communications and to reach different people, know, what could you do about that? Because there's always simple things you can do. So it could be, you know, things we haven't really talked about that much, but things like, you know, are you putting subtitles on your videos, for example, are you using alt text on all of your images? Are you using

Andrea Derbyshire (18:12)
Yeah.

Mo Kanjilal (18:17)
contrasting colors, know, what language you're using, just having an assessment, just having a look at those things to see where you can get started with making changes. And I think there's something people can do. There's loads of things you can do very quickly. It doesn't have to be big changes. It's just getting started with it and thinking in that way.

Andrea Derbyshire (18:34)
Yeah and some progressive organisations they do have those inclusive communications policies but there any resources or that you could signpost listeners to if they're maybe they're in a smaller organisation that doesn't have that  infrastructure where they could go to get more and advice.

Mo Kanjilal (18:52)
Yeah, so we have loads on our website. So our website is watchthisspace.uk and if you go on the resources page, we have inclusive communication guides, we've got meetings guides, all sorts of things on there to help people get started.

Andrea Derbyshire (19:03)
Excellent.

That's brilliant. Thank you so much for sharing. Thank you for joining us today, Mo. It's been a really valuable discussion on the impact of language and how we can all use inclusive language to make people feel welcome and included in the workplace.

Mo Kanjilal (19:20)
Thanks so much for having me on. It's been great to chat and I hope your voice is feeling okay.

Andrea Derbyshire (19:24)
No, no. Thank you and to all our listeners as well for tuning in today to the Inclusive Edge. So remember our words are powerful and choosing inclusive language helps everyone to feel seen, valued and welcome and that we all need to keep working towards that together. If you've enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe. Any feedback on the content of the podcast would be really grand if you've got any questions, please do get in touch out.

Thanks for listening to The Inclusive Edge, The Power of Diversity. I'm Andrea Darbyshire next time, stay committed to inclusion, stay on the inclusive edge and keep driving positive change in your workplaces.