57 Love vs Lust, Building a Celestial Marriage Now with Curtis Morley

In this episode of "Walking with the Savior," John interviews Curtis Morley, an emotionologist, about the distinctions between love and lust and their roles in marriage. Curtis shares insights on how love is about giving and receiving, whereas lust is about taking. They discuss various aspects of intimacy, explaining that intimacy goes beyond sexual interactions and includes emotional, spiritual, financial, and physical connections. They also talk about the importance of seeing and accepting one's partner fully for a genuine connection. Curtis emphasizes the role of Christlike love (Agape) in building a meaningful, celestial marriage and highlights that true love should be devoid of expectations. He also discusses his upcoming Pornography Recovery Program, aimed at transforming men's lives by removing shame and fostering true recovery. The episode concludes with John acknowledging the profound insights shared and encouraging listeners to incorporate Christlike principles into their relationships.

Curtis' Website: https://www.counterfeitemotions.com/about
Curtis' Book: https://amzn.to/4hZbaAN

Curtis' Addiction Recovery Program: https://www.counterfeitemotions.com/addictionrecoveryprogram

Watch on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu5zXz2flSI&list=PLQ_LlHISpjqSCaJBxsMsabY_dFQb6_NBX

Heroic for Personal Excellence: 
https://www.heroic.us?fpr=beahero2day

00:00 Love Versus Lust: An Introduction
00:43 Addiction Recovery Program Update
02:36 Understanding Love and Lust in Marriage
04:37 The Distinction Between Love and Lust
08:25 Exploring Different Types of Love
13:35 The Pillars of Intimacy
19:09 Managing Expectations in Marriage
20:08 Building Emotional and Spiritual Intimacy
24:49 The Power of Deep Listening
28:17 Discerning Love vs. Lust in Dating
35:29 Christlike Love in Marriage
40:25 Upcoming Pornography Recovery Program

Transcript

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 0:00

Love versus lust. Before marriage, you know, like it's all love and then no lust, right? You're taught about them. They're two competing, two opposites. And, but then, then I get married and I'm a Christian man and I, and I'm embracing my sexuality.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 0:19

Christ is necessary part of a celestial marriage. And one thing Patty and I say frequently to each other is that we don't have to die to have a, a celestial marriage. We can do it now. We can have a celestial marriage now. We can have an eternal marriage now.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 0:43

Welcome Curtis today, and I'm so excited to get an update. You. last time we had you on the show, you were talking about your, uh, addiction recovery program and I would love to hear a report. Did anybody join your your program from Listen to our podcast?

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 0:58

As a matter of fact, three people did and was, it was amazing. So, um, yesterday we were on you were amazing. Um, yesterday we were on week eight, so it's an eight week program. We start a week eight yesterday. And, and I asked him, I said, I said, do you feel like you're in recovery or sobriety? And every single person in there. I'm finally for the first time in my life in recovery, and I asked him, what is the difference? one guy in particular, he said something that was really powerful. He said, have the tools for the right problem.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 1:40

Hmm.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 1:40

And with sobriety, problem is the pornography. And how long can you hold on? That's not the problem. That's not the problem. You can get tools for that and learn how to white knuckle like nobody's business, you can actually get into recovery, which. Is about the soul. It's about the digging and, and we've done the work. We spent the last eight weeks digging and digging deep, and it's amazing what happens when you pull those demons outta your soul. There's no need to go to pornography anymore because the demons are out. And, and I'm, I'm super excited to talk today about our topic because it fits right in line. Every week we go through one of the counterfeit emotions dyads through this program, and today's topic is one of the most impactful, I think, in the entire program.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 2:35

Yeah, so let's jump in. Love versus lust. I, I feel, you know. This is one that you, you as before marriage, you know, like it's all love and then no lust, right? You're taught about them. They're two competing, two opposites. And, but then, then I get married and I'm a Christian man and I, and I'm embracing my sexuality.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 3:01

And it's like, wait a minute, all no. Until now, and now it's, yes.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 3:06

Yeah. And wait, is, is marriage, sex, lust? Uh uh Yeah. You got me there. Uh, so I'm turning to the pro here and, uh, where do you wanna take us?

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 3:20

So I, I love this topic and it actually took me, it took me about two years of research to fully understand this topic, and, and I dug deep. I dug really deep because I thought, well, you know, what is love and what is lust? And, and is there, you know, is there a distinction between the two? And, and I love using this example to illustrate why counterfeit emotions are so dangerous because opposite emotions like love and hate are so far on the ends of the spectrum. It's super easy to see. Love says hug, hate says hit right and, and it's easy to see. This action is not this action, so I'm gonna try and do this action. I'm gonna try and love, love and lust instead of being way over here. It slides right up next to love and says Kiss and lust says Kiss. And so we're talking about the same actions. That's why these are so dangerous, is because they're so deceptive. They, they say, I'm gonna do the exact same action as the authentic, even though I'm counterfeit.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 4:36

Yeah.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 4:37

after two years, there was one distinction that separated love and lust, just one. And um, I can see the wheels turning.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 4:49

I'm trying to think, man. I'm trying to think, but I don't know.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 4:53

So many people say in marriage or in relationships, it's a matter of give and take, and this is false. This is very false. The one distinction love and lust is taking love is not about giving and and taking. It's about giving and receiving. And

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 5:19

Hmm.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 5:20

only when someone else gives. And my favorite, my favorite example of love is the open hand. So here's, here's my little heart, right? Here's my heart. And. Love says, I've got an open hand and you've got an open hand, and I'm gonna give you my love freely. And then you receive freely. And then when you are ready to give me freely. I receive freely, but notice the hand is open. It's not closed, it's not conditions like, okay, you gotta peel back the fingers and then you get, then you get the heart. No, it's an open hand, and this is love is I give to you and you receive. Love actually has two parts.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 6:19

Hmm.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 6:20

and the receiving. The

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 6:21

Hmm.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 6:22

of love is not complete. Without the receiving, the

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 6:26

Hmm.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 6:27

not enough to be the full cycle of love. It's about giving and receiving both. And the symbol for lust is the grabbing hand. Here's my love, and I take that from you, and it's kind of jarring to see that example. Like, no, I am, you don't give it to me, I take it from you. I turn you from a human. an object. And that's the one distinction between love and lust and, and just like you said, well, know, I got married and now I'm this married man and now it's green light. you know, I'm a married Christian man. Let's green light this and let's, let's be sexually intimate. And it's interesting because of that taking, part of that grabbing hand is expectation, is that there's an expectation around sexual intimacy. Hey, now you're my wife, so you know, you, you better perform, you better do your duty. And, and that's not love. That's not love at all. And people are like, well, wait a minute. Can you lust after your wife? Oh yeah. Oh yeah, you can lust, meaning you can take from your wife

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 7:52

Mm,

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 7:53

instead of when she is ready to give, you have the open hand. Instead of that, you're doing the grabbing hand and you're taking, and it's, it actually is really damaging in marriage. It's. wait a minute. Well, we're married so you know, everything's good to go. Let's just, you know, go down the road. And it's not, it's, a matter of having that open heart and that willingness. here's something that is so beautiful The love is actually more than just sexual intimacy. tremendously more, you know, the scriptures talk about the pure love of Christ, and they talk about, um, love in very various different ways. The, the Greeks actually broke love into eight different words. Greeks had eight words for love. We only have one. We have one word and it's love. Um.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 8:56

Yeah, that's where we get messed up big time.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 8:59

Yeah, the Greeks had eight and Cs. Lewis, um, who's one of my favorite authors, CS Lewis, he broke it down into four. Four aspects of love. And the first is felia. is friendship. It's a friendship type of love. So like John, I love you brother.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 9:17

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 9:20

That's Felia. And then the second is storage. Which is the familial love. So love from a mother to a child or a father to a son, um, a brother to a sister, you know, that's storage. And then, then there's eros Eros. You've probably heard, you know, the word erotic, that's where it comes from, is Eros. And that's romantic love. And here's, I, I gotta pause because there's one more, but I've gotta pause right here. Love. And lust both contain attraction, romance, um, excitement,

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 10:02

mm.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 10:03

both of them. That's why lust mimics or counterfeits it so well

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 10:08

Mm-hmm.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 10:10

all these things about sexual intimacy. But that's the one distinguishing factor is do I receive or do I take. That open hand versus the grabbing hand. And so as I was studying this, I first got onto the subject, I'm like, well, if there's not that excitement and that, um, you know, that that attraction and that romance and all of those things that go with that, then we'd never have kids and nobody would ever, you know, multiply and replen see the earth. It would be, it would just be, we'd all be celibate. And, and the truth is that love also includes that people think that that is just the lustful side of the relationship. And I, I, I'm saying chop that word off because lust is all about taking.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 11:02

Hmm.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 11:03

And love still includes the fact that like my patty, I am crazy attracted to her. She, I can't think of a more beautiful person on the planet earth, and her eyes just beam and she, her whole countenance just shines and she is so beautiful and, and that's part of love. part of love. and so that's why lust is so damaging. Lust is so destructive is because it does such an amazing job of mimicking.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 11:39

Hmm.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 11:39

kiss and kiss, you know,

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 11:41

Yeah.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 11:42

same action.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 11:43

Yeah, I remember when I was dating, somebody talked about, you know, you kiss somebody and you might wanna stop'em and say, wait, what did that kiss mean to you? I'm beautiful and you think I'm attractive. You just wanted to get some, or you love me and want to continue this relationship. You know, because it could be a million things.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 12:07

Yeah. Yeah, it,

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 12:08

That's what I'm hearing you say with, uh, lust and love. They're so over. Yeah. Keep going brother.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 12:14

yeah. I love that because, um, when I was young, my mom used to always say, save your kisses for the ones you love. Don't, don't waste your kisses. Save your kisses for the ones you love. And when Patty and I started dating, um, I think it was, no, I know it was, it was our 13th date,

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 12:36

13th.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 12:37

our 13th date,

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 12:38

Let's flash that. You're amazing.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 12:43

she said, are you ever gonna kiss me? and, and I said. I wanna know your soul long before I know your lips

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 12:59

Yeah. Let that soak in people. I wanna know your soul long before I wanna know your lips. You and I are on the same path. My wife and I, we were, you know, I was, I was dating, she was in a friendship zone for like two months. You know, I had to, my goal was to win her heart before I won her lips. There you go.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 13:27

Yes. That's it. That's it. I love that. And, and here's, here's the coolest thing. Love actually, if, if you look at our relationships and you look at love in general, there's, there's actually, you know, most people ascribe the word intimacy to only sexual intimacy.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 13:49

Mm-hmm.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 13:49

it.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 13:50

Mm-hmm.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 13:51

intimacy, that means. A form of sex. Right. And, and that's, that's not true. Intimacy comes in multiple forms. And if we have, if we have only one pillar of intimacy, and that's the sexual intimacy, it's kind of like if I have, I just have one pillar and like my foundation is not solid, like it's teetering. And if that's the only, that's the only pillar of intimacy. anything happens with that pillar, guess what? The whole foundation falls. But there's other pillars. There's emotional intimacy.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 14:33

Mm.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 14:34

And what intimacy really means is the vulnerability to share all of you with someone else. So this emotional intimacy, there's spiritual intimacy,

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 14:49

Hmm.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 14:49

there's even financial intimacy. There's, there's physical intimacy, which is different than emo or than sexual intimacy. Physical intimacy and sexual intimacy are two different things, and people often just squish'em together. That physical intimacy is sexual intimacy and it's not, but you have all these pillars. That you can build. And when you build multiple pillars and you put your foundation on those pillars, say your sexual intimacy isn't happening. You know what? It's okay your foundation is so solid, you have all six pillars of intimacy, and one of my favorite quotes is that intimacy. Is the result of intimacy.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 15:43

That's deep.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 15:45

Think about that one for a second. Sexual intimacy is not something to be expected. It's not something we put on the calendar. It's not something that, Hey, you have to do this'cause we're married. It's the result of all the other pillars of intimacy.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 16:02

Mm.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 16:04

When it happens like that, when it happens where there is so much love, it's almost like you can't help but go to that place. Then you achieve a whole new level of connection. A whole new level.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 16:21

It reminds me of my favorite definition of intimacy, which is into me, see

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 16:30

Yes.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 16:31

or see into me, and that's what you talked about. That takes vulnerability. I. That takes, and I think with physical intimacy, remind, maybe it would be like going on a walk together or, or going on do some adventure or hiking or exercise or is that what you mean by physical intimacy? Is it doing something active together? Is that what I'm hearing?

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 16:55

that's absolutely a part of it is, is physically being, um, together, there, there is recreational intimacy as well.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 17:02

Oh, okay.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 17:03

but physical intimacy would be holding hands

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 17:06

Okay,

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 17:06

or scratching someone's back without any sexual component to

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 17:11

sure.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 17:11

their back, holding their hand, maybe, you know, putting their hair behind their ear or just just that contact, that touch the.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 17:19

Okay, so it's a little different

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 17:21

Yeah. And, um, and

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 17:25

with without the, I'm doing this so I can take something later.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 17:29

yes, yes.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 17:31

If I'm doing it with the expectation of this is gonna go somewhere else, then I, then it kinda gets in the way.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 17:39

yeah.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 17:39

you feel that way?

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 17:40

Yes, yes, definitely. And, and that's, that word you said is so important is the expectation. When sexual intimacy is expected,

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 17:51

Mm.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 17:52

it's not connection.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 17:54

Mm-hmm. Mm.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 17:55

not connection, and you know if it's expected and all of a sudden it doesn't happen. watch out because now I've got this, this disappointment, you know, unmet expectations is the fastest way to disappointment. And that disappointment can turn into a fight, it can turn into anything like that. And so one of the, one of the keys to, beautiful, blissful experience in marriage letting go of the expectations.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 18:26

Hmm.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 18:27

Just letting go

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 18:28

Any suggestions on that? That's a big one.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 18:32

Yeah.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 18:32

It's it's love without expectations, which is, is is way easier said than done. Right. Because my thought was, how do you love kids without expectations? I mean, we have to have high, um. Standards, I guess, or, or, you know, like, here's how we kind of do things in life. We're not just gonna say, do whatever you want, right? That's not good either. But, but the love without, like, if you love me, uh, I don't know. You're, you're expanding a lot better. What can we do to love without expectations? And then the following disappointment. I love you. If you get a CI still love you. I would like you to do better, but I'm not gonna expect that and get disappointed. I don't know if that's. What are you hearing? What are you thinking?

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 19:21

yeah. Specifically with marriage. Um, so our, the cohort that's, that's in our program right now, um, I sent him a, I sent him a text message on oops. I sent him a text message on um, Valentine's Day,'cause the program went over Valentine's Day in the text message I said. Guys, I know this can be a triggering day because a lot of us think, Hey, it's Valentine's Day, therefore it's a romantic day. Therefore, I have this expectation around sexual intimacy.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 19:54

Mm

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 19:55

my invitation to them was, let go of it all. Let go of it all

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 20:01

mm.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 20:02

where you don't, don't expect anything in that arena,

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 20:07

Hmm.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 20:08

What you can do is you can create connection

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 20:14

Hmm.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 20:15

because all of the pillars of intimacy are so important. They're so critical to create connection. That emotional intimacy, that spiritual intimacy creates such amazing levels of connection and when we're connected. the sexual intimacy is just a natural result of all that, and it's one of the greatest levels of connection that we can experience we give and receive instead of take when it's about self self gratification, it's about expectation and we're married, so you have to do this, you. It's, it is not connection. It's disconnection. It's,

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 21:01

Mm-hmm.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 21:01

it is taking a beautiful son or daughter of God and turning them into an object.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 21:08

That will drive a wedge in a marriage, and it may be 10 years down the road, 20 years down the road, but if that's not fixed, that will, that will wedge a marriage

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 21:19

Yeah.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 21:20

rather than bringing together, which I love. Your, your intimacy is the result of intimacy.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 21:28

Yes, it's the result. It's the outcropping of intimacy. And when it turns into that, instead of an expectation or instead of, you know, you have to, it's this gratification when it's just, I'm gonna surrender to this. gonna let this happen. of, I'm gonna force this to happen. I'm gonna control the situation. I'm just gonna surrender to it. And when I build all these other pillars of intimacy, then comes intimacy.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 22:03

Hmm. And then there's something else that happens when you build all those six pillars. You build a marriage, you build a team,

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 22:14

Yeah.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 22:15

you build a relationship, you build a, you know, a, a strong unit rather, rather than this me versus her mentality that you see sometimes in marriage. Well, she does this, he does that. It's like, oh, we're, we're not being a team here.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 22:34

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And one thing that's amazing is anytime, okay, let's say a husband and wife. Like they, they are going on a weekend, you know, stay somewhere and all of a sudden the wife doesn't feel like being intimate in that way. Right. And.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 22:53

Get sick or something.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 22:55

Get sick, whatever it is, and they don't feel like doing it. Then the husband, you know, and I see this a lot, the husband will typically be like, oh, I was expecting this. You know, I had all this now, you know, and then there's this frustration and this tension, and if instead of that, we can say, you know what? I don't have to go to this intimacy. There's so many other levels of intimacy that I can go to right now, including like if she has a headache, great. I'm gonna go to physical intimacy. I'm gonna rub her shoulders and her neck and her head until she doesn't, with no expectation. But now I can connect in a different way. It's all about connection. Love is all about connection versus. The grabbing hand, you know, it's instead of the grabbing hand, it's this connection of giving and receiving and, and if the sexual intimacy isn't happening, that's actually a beautiful opportunity to say, which one of these other pillars can I focus on right now? Which one of these other pillars, and it may be emotional, it may be an emotional intimacy that you need to go to, to say, how are you feeling? Because sometimes the sexual intimacy doesn't happen because of emotions that are going on, and that's great. That means I now have an opportunity to see you intimacy. have another opportunity to see you and to understand you, and to learn what's happening right now in your heart. And that level of intimacy is just as beautiful to be able to say, I care about you, to the point where I just want to see you

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 24:49

My wife and I just did this activity that came out of a book called Real Love. You ever read that one?

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 24:55

real love. Yeah.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 24:56

Yeah, it's kind of along this lines here, but there was a practice in there and I, I encourage any husbands, wifes, or, you know, dating relationships to do this. You sit and talk for two minutes and, and, um, we, we just started out with two minutes now. You could probably change the time, but this was the, the, the idea for two minutes sit there and I listen to my spouse talk for two minutes about fears. What are your fears? And it could be fears in marriage, fears in work, fears in life. It could just, you could start off with, I got fears of heights to, I got fears of this marriage isn't gonna work or whatever. Right. And, and my job as a spouse was to sit there and listen. I. Intentionally without saying anything, but to let her know I am watching, looking, seeing, I'm listening. And so there was some nods, there was some facial expressions and no judgment. And when she was done, then it was my turn and she listened for two minutes about my fears. And we did that back and forth and it, it has this weird effect, right.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 26:06

Yeah.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 26:07

The, the weird effect was, I just wanna hug you.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 26:12

Yes. Yes.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 26:14

Right? And it's like,

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 26:16

closeness?

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 26:17

i's like, we should do this more. Maybe we don't have to talk about fears every time, obviously. But I think that deep listening, and a lot of people when they're saying, you don't listen to me, that's probably what they're really meaning. It's like, can you just sit down and let's take turns listening and let's just no one, you know?'cause we so often interrupt each other. We so often wanna comment

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 26:46

Mm-hmm.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 26:47

they just wanna be seen. They wanna be heard seen. And then the big one is accepted. And when they feel, when they feel accepted, then it opens room for real love. That's what happened when I did it with my wife is we, we shared, and you know, it's kind of like, oh, I, I just wanna give you a hug. Well, that's the love coming out. The real love. So a beautiful practice,

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 27:21

yeah,

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 27:21

seeing on a different level that that was a pillar is what you're talking about.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 27:27

yeah, yeah. And before you ever know your wife's lips, know her heart. Know her soul.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 27:35

mm.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 27:35

Spend that time.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 27:37

Mm

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 27:37

Then just naturally the rest will happen.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 27:41

mm.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 27:41

naturally it will just come and it's not, it's not about, oh, we got a force setter. It's, it's, I'm gonna see you, I'm going to hear you. I'm gonna validate you and accept who you are, because who you are is a daughter of God, and that's so beautiful.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 28:01

Hmm.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 28:02

And to be able to see her in that way. Is, it's almost indescribable. It's so beautiful to be able to see her soul and then just let the rest happen.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 28:17

Any tips on in a dating relationship?'cause I'm working with a lot of youth, young adults. Any tips on how do you discern? Because we can fake it, we can put a mask on. You hear stories of people who you know, things are. Are so romantic and we get married and then the mask comes off and it's like, who did I marry? Any, any tips for discerning love versus lust in a dating relationship? Because like you said, I think what you're saying is it's so easy to be counterfeit and to, to live in a, oh, I'm gonna be loving so I can, you know, win this girl or, or whatever. What do you think?

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 29:02

there there's a saying that says, love is blind,

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 29:05

Oh yeah. There you go.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 29:07

and love is not blind.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 29:09

Oh,

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 29:11

Lust is blind.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 29:13

oh.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 29:14

We make really silly decisions. When we are in a state of lust, like really silly decisions, we see past red flags. We see, you know, oh, I feel all excited and get such a dopamine hit when we're together because we're just making out the whole time and, and.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 29:38

I am guessing that's not gonna happen after you're married. I mean, where you just make out all the time. When you're married, usually life hits and you don't do that all the time.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 29:48

Not all the time, but not the time. But it's, it's, it's that idea that, you know, love is, actually, love has eagle eyes because love is trying to see someone's soul. And it is so clear the vision that someone sees when they truly spend the time to see their soul. And it, um, in my opinion, the, the physical side of a relationship, the kissing, the making out, all of those things that can actually get in the way of, of being able to see someone's soul. they're so beautiful, they're so attractive and they are great kissers. And so, um, so all of a sudden it's like, well, the other stuff that really doesn't matter and, you know, those things that we really weren't compatible about, it really doesn't matter because I am feeling all these other feelings about the sexual side. And it's actually, it's, it's something that will get in the way of seeing someone truly. And so my suggestion, I, I actually did, it's funny, I did a survey, I did a survey of people in the dating world and I said, I said, what date do you typically kiss? Like, what number in the dating order do you typically kiss? And I was kind of blown away. Um, take a guess for,

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 31:22

I am gonna say two, because of the day and age we live in.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 31:25

It was two. It two, the second date. And I'm thinking, wait a minute, wait a minute.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 31:32

I'm seeing your soul here.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 31:36

how do you know someone to the level where you're willing to commit to kiss them and be on that level? And so my suggestion is, is take a minute. You know, take a few dates. I don't know that it has to be 13, but, but take a few dates and really try to get to know them in different environments, in different situations. You know, make one of the dates, go into sacrament and meeting together, or, you know, make one of those dates, go into the temple together, or do the spiritual, then do the recreational. If you like, rock climbing or running or

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 32:16

Mm

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 32:16

it is. Go do that with them. And they say that it's important to date someone through all four seasons

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 32:25

mm.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 32:25

because when you date through all four seasons, you get to see the other person. In all of those situations. You get to see'em in the, you know, the craziness of the holidays. You get to see them in, you know, in all of the situations It's hard to pretend. It's hard to pretend that you are someone after you've been together for a long time, especially you're not kissing. if, if you are saying, Hey, how about we hold off and we, you know, we start this relationship with a different kind of intimacy and emotional intimacy, a spiritual intimacy, If someone is just interested in you because you're beautiful, and I'm talking to the young ladies here, someone is interested in you, just because you're beautiful, then who knows if the relationship's gonna even work out. If you're compatible, if you like the same things, if you don't like the same things, you know, there's no way to know unless you spend that time And it's, um. I'm trying to remember the, the report I read, um, it was something like, uh, a, a narcissist can be, um, can deceive someone for 90 days, I believe it was, and

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 33:46

Mm

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 33:47

90 days. Then especially if they're not getting what they want,

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 33:51

mm.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 33:51

the make out sessions or

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 33:53

Mm-hmm.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 33:54

then you'll start to see their true colors. And so, so my suggestion would be, um, date for every season, date through every season. Um, don't start the relationship with the physical because it gets in the way of clear thinking. Lust is blind Love. Love has such clear vision, such clear vision.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 34:19

I love your description and I honestly, when I started dating my wife, I had this clear, distinct. Impression and it was like, don't push romance. Don't push kissing, don't try to kiss her. Don't push romance. Just have we, we used to have a lot of, we'd go on bike rides, go on hiking, we'd did all these fun things and, and it was really low key. It wasn't really even formal days. It's just like after class. Hey, do you want to go for a bike ride? Do you want to go for a walk? Do you wanna, you know, and ended up building and bonding this great relationship where, you know, two months later. Um, I know I was in love and I cared deeply about her, and, and she tells me to this day, you know, there were other more, she'll say, there were other more attractive boys. Well, thanks, dear. But, but they, but they always tried to, tried to kiss, you know, and she's like, it drove her nuts. And she's like, I felt safe with you

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 35:26

Yes.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 35:27

now, Curtis.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 35:28

Yes.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 35:29

I wanna ask you real quick,'cause I know you need to leave and I want to hit on this. Where does Jesus fit in this role of developing true love in your mind?

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 35:41

So we didn't talk about the fourth,

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 35:44

Oh, the fourth.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 35:45

The fourth is agape.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 35:48

Hmm. There you go.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 35:49

The Greek word for love is agape, and that's charity. That's Christlike love and true love, especially between husband and wife. Yeah, it includes Aeros, but it also includes Agape

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 36:06

All right.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 36:07

and Christ being part of that relationship. Where it's not a matter of give and take, but a give and receive the surrender your vulnerability to the other person. Uh, that's, that's true. Love and I. When a marriage is centered in Christ, um, and I'm so happy, like I wake up every morning thinking, how do I get to love Patty every day? How do I, how do I even, it's hard to believe that I get to love her single day. And we build that spiritual pillar all the time. One of my favorite things, so connecting is we sit down and we read our scriptures together. I. And tell you what, like it opens up my heart and connects me to her in ways that nothing else can and that Christlike love. Like she, I know I'm gushing, I, I, I realize that totally gushing, she, she loves to serve that's one of the key characteristics of Christ is giving. and when we sit down and read our scriptures and go deep into the scriptures and then talk about our feelings about the scriptures, man, that spiritual pillar, it just gets so strong. It

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 37:37

Hmm.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 37:37

so strong, it creates that foundation. I. And yeah, Christ is necessary part of a celestial marriage. And one thing Patty and I say frequently to each other is that we don't have to die to have a, a celestial marriage. We can do it now. We can have a celestial marriage now. We can have an eternal marriage now. not something we have to wait till after we're dead. It's, it's happening right now and, and that in part is because we do include Christ in our marriage. We include Christ in our love, and yeah, through Christ that we can find true love. It's through Christ that we can find peace with him as the prince of peace. It's through Christ that we can find joy, which is the ultimate purpose of this life, is that we find joy. it was amazing because, know, it's, salvation happen alone. Exaltation takes two, and, and when we have that, when we have Christ in that man, that's a phenomenal place to be, John. It's a phenomenal place to be.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 39:09

Uh, today we're, I was preparing a lesson like I'm building healthy and relationships and, and it had all these skills, and I was like, well, why don't I go find those skills or those attributes in the scriptures? I. And they were all there, you know, and it was, it was all there. And, and what I realized from that is to have happy relationships, we just need to ask ourselves, what would Christ do in this situation? And, and then listen to that little voice and then act on it. Like so many times we complicate things, but if we really turn to the savior and live like him. Relationships will be better. And you know, now that's just our half of the relationship. Um, but of course there's another person and things like that. But, but like so many of this, like building healthy relationships starts with like the Christlike principles of being kind, being caring, being loving, smiling, radiating, positivity, on and on and on. And it's all throughout the scriptures. Jesus Christ wants us to love. He is love and his life just radiates that in all of our relationships. You have one more cohort. Tell us about your next cohort for the addiction recovery.

curtis-morley---emotionologist_1_02-27-2025_161805 40:29

Yeah, so we're doing the the Pornography Recovery Program and we're gonna start March 26th and it's gonna be, um. It's, John, I can't even tell you how excited I am because is something completely unique There's nothing like this out there. It's completely shame-free. 100% shame-free because most men are not addicted to pornography. They're addicted to shame. so that's what we do is we get shame out of our lives. And, um, and it is transformative. It us from a mindset of sobriety. true recovery the idea with sobriety is once an addict always an addict, and that completely denies the atonement of Jesus Christ, completely denies it. And so we're, we're doing another cohort. Um, it's, it's gonna be Wednesday nights and then there's daily activities outside of that. But it, it is like if a man wants to change for good, to overcome pornography. For good. And finally, develop the skills, the tools to deal with what's inside versus trying to deal with what's outside and the computer and the filters and all those. That doesn't work. It just doesn't work. This is what healing from the inside looks like.

john_1_02-27-2025_161805 41:56

It's so awesome. I invite everybody to take that look at that. I'll have a link to that in the show notes. Ladies and gentlemen, thanks for joining us on this week's episode of Walking with the Savior. This is Curtis Moley and it's been awesome. Thanks everybody.