Deposits, Payment Methods, and Payment Horror Stories – What Every Personal Chef Needs to Know

When you run a personal chef business, getting paid isn’t always as simple as it should be. From payment disputes to canceled checks and questionable Venmo transactions, every chef has a horror story.

In this episode, I sit down with Chef Matt Collins to talk about the best payment methods, when to require deposits, and how to protect yourself from payment issues. If you take money for your services—whether as a personal chef, caterer, or food entrepreneur—this is a must-listen!

We share real-life payment horror stories, break down the pros and cons of different payment methods, and discuss strategies to avoid late or missing payments.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

✅ The best payment methods for personal chefs (and which ones to avoid)
✅ Why deposits are crucial & how much to require upfront
✅ The hidden risks of Venmo, Zelle, and PayPal transactions
✅ How to handle clients who want to split payments between multiple people
✅ Real horror stories of chefs who got scammed or didn’t get paid
✅ How to protect yourself from last-minute cancellations & chargebacks
✅ Tips for handling cash payments and avoiding tax issues

MATT COLLINS

Matt Collins on Instagram
Chef Collins Events - Private Dinners

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Chris Spear's personal chef business Perfect Little Bites

Transcript

[00:00:00] Chris Spear: You're listening to Personal Chef Business Startup Guide on the Chefs Without Restaurants podcast network.

[00:00:09] Chris Spear: Today I'm talking deposits, payment methods, and horror stories with Chef Matt Collins. Whether you're someone who works in the food business or not, if you take money for your services, stick around, because you're going to want to hear this. As most of you know, I work as a personal chef. For my business, I currently accept cash, check, Zelle, Venmo, and sometimes PayPal as a payment method.

[00:00:32] Chris Spear: This weekend, I had an issue with a customer payment through Zelle. Matt's already been on this show twice. You might have heard him before. He's someone I talk to frequently, often bouncing ideas and thoughts off of him. When I had this issue, I sent Matt a message joking that we should do a show about it.

[00:00:48] Chris Spear: I know he's had issues with Venmo and checks, so we thought, why not talk about it? When I started this podcast, it was because I wanted to bring real value to those who were new business owners or maybe looking to start one. [00:01:00] This is a topic that I see come up a lot in personal chef forums, and people ask me all the time about payment methods.

[00:01:06] Chris Spear: I'll keep the intro short, because we're going to really dig into it on the show. But we talk about different options for payment methods, we also talk about deposits, how, when, and how much. We're going to talk about fees, gratuity, and paying by cash. And due to the nature of the conversation, we're going to get into some horror stories, which I think you'll find amusing.

[00:01:23] Chris Spear: Overall, Matt's a mildly funny guy, and we try to keep it light. As always, if you go to chefs without restaurants.org, you can find links to everything, including our private Facebook group, and you'll be able to add yourself to our database so you can hopefully get some gig leads. If you have any questions, comments, or feedback on this episode, I'd love to hear from you.

[00:01:40] Chris Spear: My dms are always open on Instagram at Chefs Without Restaurants, or you can shoot me an email at Chefs Without restaurants@gmail.com. Hey, Matt, welcome to the show. Thanks for coming back. I guess this is like your third time. So you're probably my most, uh, appearing guest at this point. You did the regular episode.

[00:01:58] Chris Spear: You did a what is the [00:02:00] chef or what is a chef mini episode. And now we're back to talk about payment methods today, which I guess at its core maybe sounds like a dry topic, but I think we'll keep it fun, right? 

[00:02:09] Matt Collins: Yeah, I'm pretty fun. I'm excited for my jacket. Kind of like SNL going to have the three timers club jacket on Chefs Without Restaurants.

[00:02:16] Matt Collins: Yes, 

[00:02:16] Chris Spear: you're 

[00:02:17] Matt Collins: going to be the Steve Martin 

[00:02:18] Chris Spear: of 

[00:02:18] Matt Collins: the 

[00:02:18] Chris Spear: Chefs Without Restaurants podcast. Uh, so for the audience, we wanted to talk about payment methods. You know, Matt's a personal chef. I'm a personal chef. He and I actually talk off camera a lot about, you know, uh, when you should take a deposit, how much, what your payment methods are.

[00:02:34] Chris Spear: But this started because this weekend I had a situation. So I've always said I take Cash, check, Zelle, and Venmo. I can do PayPal, I don't mind, because it's an easy way to take credit card processing. Uh, but they charge a fee, which I don't like. So, anyway, I had these guests at a dinner. There was nine people.

[00:02:54] Chris Spear: Uh, now, shame on me because I let them all pay separately. And we'll [00:03:00] get into this. I, I do feel like one person should be paying you. But it comes time to settle up. And all these guests, you know, they're couples. So, like, four of them want to pay Venmo. And, you know, a couple want to pay Zelle, or whatever.

[00:03:13] Chris Spear: Which is usually fine. So, you know, they send me the money. One woman with a Zelle, it doesn't go through. It's not showing on my phone. But I've had this issue before. And I said, you know, don't worry about it. I'm sure it'll go through. Guess what? It didn't. It's two days later now. I come home. It's still not in my bank.

[00:03:30] Chris Spear: I don't know where this money is, but here's the problem. I don't know who this woman is. She's not the person who booked the party. She's a guest of the hostess, right? So I call Zelle, and here's what they tell me. You don't have a valid account and I'm like, what do you mean I don't have a valid account?

[00:03:46] Chris Spear: I have an account. So here's how Zelle works. It goes directly into your bank, but what they don't tell you is it doesn't actually go to your bank account number. It's tied to your debit card. So, you know, like credit cards and debit cards do, there's an expiration. So I guess my debit card [00:04:00] expired and my bank sent me a new one.

[00:04:01] Chris Spear: No big deal. I didn't update it in the Zelle app. So when this woman went to pay, Zelle does not flag it and say, this is not valid. It can't go through. They. Accept the process. I think I've got my money. I leave the party. And then I find out later, guess what? Um, I didn't have a valid debit card on file, so they refused the charge.

[00:04:19] Chris Spear: But at the time of service, when I'm at this party, the woman was not told this, so she thinks it goes through. I am not told this, so I think it goes through. And now I have to hope that this is a good person, and she is actually going to send me the money she owes me. But guess what? I also have to figure out how to get a hold of her first.

[00:04:34] Chris Spear: So now I have to email. The hostess and say, Hey, you know how we said the woman was going to pay Zell and I thought it'd be okay. Guess what? It's not. Can you reach out to your friend and tell her she needs to send me 250 bucks, which is just a pain in the ass. So this is a long way of me saying, um, I think I need to work on some processes here.

[00:04:51] Chris Spear: And I know Matt has had some issues. With some of these things as well. So we wanted to talk about this a little bit today because I want to bring value to my listeners and I thought this would be more [00:05:00] interesting than just doing a solo show. So Matt and I are going to hash it out a little bit over payment methods.

[00:05:05] Chris Spear: What do you think, Matt? I literally had to bite my tongue hearing that you allow multiple 

[00:05:12] Matt Collins: people 

[00:05:12] Chris Spear: to pay. And this is not my first time I've done this and had an issue. So yes, so yeah, getting getting into that. You really need to have one person making payment, right? If you are doing a dinner party with ten people and it's five couples.

[00:05:26] Chris Spear: How do you handle that? 

[00:05:27] Matt Collins: No one person. The only time I'll take a second payment if someone else maybe wants to leave a tip. And then I've had an issue where someone said, Hey, I forgot to leave a tip. Can I leave a tip in front of my staff? And then they're like, you know, set it up via square and then they just never paid it.

[00:05:42] Matt Collins: So I had to like take screenshots and show my staff. I'm like, yeah, they actually just never paid it. So it's like, cause then people think I'm, you know, taking like a hundred bucks out of their pocket. Or something. And so it just put me in this like, weird, like, Curb Your Enthusiasm situation of like, you know what I mean?

[00:05:58] Matt Collins: Over like, you know, not that it's [00:06:00] the end of the world, it's a little bit of money. But, you know, it just, you know, I have people who I rely on, and if they think I'm stealing money from them, that's not cool. Yeah, Matt Collins is cancelled because he's stealing 

[00:06:09] Chris Spear: tips. 

[00:06:11] Matt Collins: Yeah, I mean, how, well, in all honesty, how many chefs has that happened to?

[00:06:15] Matt Collins: Uh, quite a few recently. Most of them, you know what I mean? I'm almost like, who has it? I guess that's how you run a restaurant. So we can't be the chefs without restaurants doing the things the chefs with restaurants are doing. But I, 

[00:06:27] Chris Spear: but I do think this is more common, especially in like younger parties.

[00:06:30] Chris Spear: Like I see, you know, I do a lot of bachelorette parties and it's a dozen single girls and they all want to be like Venmo ing you at the table. Sometimes I found that that does work out if you're talking about tips. Because it offsets the chance that if there's one bad tipper, because I've had a party of, let's say, ten, where the host is the one who doesn't want to tip, so you've got a thousand dollar dinner, and they don't tip, so you don't get, let's say, two hundred bucks.

[00:06:53] Chris Spear: But at least when you've got ten people, if you've got one who doesn't tip, but nine others do, [00:07:00] I'm playing the odds there. I'm 

[00:07:01] Matt Collins: playing the odds, but yeah, but you lost the tip on this last party because you lost two 50. And then there's like, sometimes there's individual processing fees for each transaction too.

[00:07:11] Matt Collins: So you're raising fees and just general confusion that at the end of the year, doing your taxes. Oh, for this party, it was blah, blah, blah. Then you have to recalculate how much you lost in fees. I haven't paid any 

[00:07:22] Chris Spear: fees. Most, I mean, we'll get into the fees things. Most of them are just a transaction percentage.

[00:07:29] Chris Spear: Venmo gives you the option when you pay someone. It says, is this for goods or service? I think in like three years of doing business, only two people have flagged it as a service where I did get assessed a fee and everyone else just pays me. And I haven't had to pay, which is why I love using Venmo and Zelle because 99 percent of the time, I'm not assessed any kind of fee on that, which is sweet.

[00:07:52] Chris Spear: You know, when people pay via. PayPal, I'm getting whacked with this. You know, I'm losing like 30 40 [00:08:00] on a one transaction fee. And yes, there's a cost of doing business. But if I could skate through without paying that, you know, 40 50 and I do want to be clear. This woman did pay for the party. They all 100 percent tipped, went above and beyond.

[00:08:13] Chris Spear: I did make my money. I don't know if they're listening. They probably aren't. But it was a great party. We had lots of fun. They did pay me well and everyone tipped and it worked out. But there was the off chance that maybe I wouldn't get paid for this party. At least for one person.

[00:08:27] Matt Collins: Ah, I totally spaced on what I wanted to say because I changed like four times. 

[00:08:33] Chris Spear: Well, I think one of the big things is like going back to it is if you're doing a party, you need to have one person coordinate. Like if all these people are paying their own way, they need to give whoever's the hostess needs to collect that money and then pay you out of their account.

[00:08:47] Chris Spear: So if we're going or selling 

[00:08:48] Matt Collins: have a maximum of how many times you can split a check. So I think, you know, I mean, I don't have the verbiage on my website, but maybe I should add it. I haven't had that as many issues as what you're having, but I've had [00:09:00] sometimes where it's, you know. I'm going to pay X percentage and so and so is going to pay the balance.

[00:09:05] Matt Collins: Cause you know, I've had people's parents pay for parties, you know, uh, another family member split it with, you know, brother and sister paying for a parent's anniversary. I've done a lot of weird stuff. As long as, you know, people are clear with what's happening, Hey, I'm paying the deposit. And then, you know, another X, another person next week's going to pay the remainder of the balance before the event.

[00:09:26] Matt Collins: Cause that's like a policy I have is that if you're not at the event. The party has the event has to be paid for beforehand. Um, you know, it can be the week of the balance, but you just can't not be there. And then me go hunt you down. Like, I'm not a debt collector. I'm not the punisher. I'm not, uh. You know, Boba Fett, uh, no, you're Mr.

[00:09:48] Matt Collins: Star Wars. Um, so that's like a whole crazy thing. When I first started the business, I did a pop up and then my first public, my [00:10:00] first private event, I literally got into an email beef while at my first ever private event about someone who didn't. Like the verbiage of my deposit form and was like, well, do you take Zelle?

[00:10:14] Matt Collins: And I was like, I've never used it. You can try sending it over and then, you know, That was like the beginning of the meal like the hors d'oeuvres first course, you know I had a minute sent that email and then later by the entree I'm like, she's like you got it and I'm like I didn't get it and Then I was literally had to call the person step outside and was like, yeah, you need to call your bank Call Bank of America, call Zelle.

[00:10:36] Matt Collins: I don't have it. I can't send it back. And if I don't have a deposit Then, you know, your, your, your dinner in nine, 10 days isn't going to happen because I'm not going to buy food. And it was right when I started the business, I had very little money. It wasn't like I was like, Oh, I can go buy all this food.

[00:10:54] Matt Collins: I needed that money to buy the food. Like I just bought all my plates, my website and [00:11:00] you know, like whatever napkins, glassware, silverware. Like I was, the last thing I needed to do was to spend a couple hundred dollars on food. And not ever get paid or it go into the cell void 

[00:11:12] Chris Spear: yeah i feel like the cell void is real uh and this makes me think that i did have a customer a couple days ago who said they're gonna send a deposit via cell and now that i think about it i haven't seen that and i probably need to reach out to her and say hey did you.

[00:11:24] Chris Spear: Actually forget and not send it or did you send it and not realize that it was going to the cell void and I didn't have a valid account so that's the kind of stuff that like can easily slip by you right and then I could see getting into an argument like a dinner when I present like the check and she says there's 100 deposit now I have to like figure out what happened to that 100 deposit.

[00:11:45] Matt Collins: What are not to dislike totally dumb on on venmo as well cuz that's another thing where you were saying you didn't have any. Fees and based on whatnot, like right when PayPal took over Venmo for me, they [00:12:00] instantly like messaged me because I don't know if your name is your business name. I made a business account separate, you know what I mean?

[00:12:06] Matt Collins: So that way people don't see like my partner paying me rent or friends paying me whatever or whatever I want to send money. I just, because everyone adds you, you know what I mean? So I used my personal for like a year and I was like, well, it's weird because all these people are adding this account. You know, every client would add it and then it's just like, they're seeing all my stuff.

[00:12:26] Matt Collins: It's just made me uncomfortable. So I made the business 1 and then once that switchover came, they were like, we don't care if you're paying your staff, like, we're going to hit you with a fee. It doesn't matter. So it didn't matter friends or family or anything anymore. And then I was like, okay, whatever I can work that in.

[00:12:43] Matt Collins: And then I had a cancellation happen and they instantly yoinked the money out of my account. And I was like. My policy isn't you get every single dollar back. They canceled on a holiday weekend in under 48 hours. I had purchases I made. I had to reimburse my staff. And so I had to [00:13:00] fight with Venmo and it took about a week to get the money back.

[00:13:03] Matt Collins: And then I just was like, why am I going to pay fees if my money is not protected? 

[00:13:08] Chris Spear: So how did that work? Like the customer reached out to them and said, like, it was 

[00:13:13] Matt Collins: essentially was like fraud, but they never followed up with me. So they just didn't say anything. So I noticed like, I don't know, a couple of days after the event was supposed to happen, that the money was taken out of my bank account and it was a good chunk of change, you know what I mean?

[00:13:28] Matt Collins: It was maybe like 1, 800 or whatever it was, 1, 500. So you kind of notice, I'm not Daddy Warbucks, so you kind of notice when like two grand comes out of your, your, um, you know, your checking. And so I reached out and the, you know, the dispute, I had to screenshot emails, you know, explaining how much money I was going to give her back.

[00:13:48] Matt Collins: Et cetera, showing all that. And then they, they took care of it, but it was, it was quite nerve wracking. And that was like a hard decision. Cause I still get people who want to pay Venmo. And if they're in a hard [00:14:00] spot, they're in their own home, you know, I'm not going to tell them, you know, fuck off. You know, I'll, I'll take it.

[00:14:05] Matt Collins: I just haven't sent it to my, my personal and hope that it doesn't get flagged. And I'd much rather lose, you know what I mean? 4 percent on fees. If Venmo decides to take the fees, then, you know, not get paid the balance or, or upset a customer doesn't listen, which is, it is what it is, you know. 

[00:14:25] Chris Spear: Yeah, and one of the things I've, you know, most of the time or much of the time people are drinking at these parties.

[00:14:31] Chris Spear: So when you get into these multiple people hands in the pot, I've had a number of scenarios where you've got, you know, five couples and the wife says to the husband, okay, you know, send him 200 bucks or whatever. And he's like half drunk and whatever. And he doesn't put in the right name. Thank God. Now there's like a scan a QR code.

[00:14:49] Chris Spear: Uh, and they sometimes need your phone number to validate because one time I was at a party. And And the people had like no Wi Fi, no reception in their house, and I gave them my name, and they said they sent me the [00:15:00] money, and I kept saying it wasn't there, and they're like, no, no, like, we just, there's no Wi Fi, like, I'm sure when you get home, it'll be fine, and like, two days go by, and I still didn't have the money.

[00:15:08] Chris Spear: It turns out they sent it to the wrong person, even though in all my emails, I'm saying like, Here's my Venmo. They said, I mean, if you looked at the avatar, the guy looked like a 18 year old Filipino guy in his profile picture, like at the gym. No one knows. They think that that's what you look like. I am an 18 year old Filipino guy.

[00:15:25] Chris Spear: Um, but you know, like clearly, but everyone was there having drinks. They're like, Oh, Chris Spear, send him Venmo. I'm like, I'm not Chris Spear on Venmo. That's not my Venmo. It's. Chris dash beard dash six. If anyone wants to send me any money, 

[00:15:36] Matt Collins: I was just going to make that joke that you should say it so people can send you some money.

[00:15:40] Matt Collins: I remember then knowing you and it was a wacky name. And that's like branding, which is something to think about from like a business owner standpoint. If you have a Venmo, that's like not really your name. Like I have a very common name. Like my personal Venmo isn't Matt Collins because there's, I'd have to have so many numbers after I'd lose to look like a Twitter bot because it's just [00:16:00] like a common, common name.

[00:16:01] Matt Collins: And so. That's like one of the things to or why do you want to hyphenate things and dashes like when you want it to like streamline across all your platforms and and if you can't get that one, maybe it's like a red flag of like, I don't want people accidentally paying, uh, the wrong person just because they got my business name before me because, you know, a lot of people, you know, I see in the, you know, the groups and stuff they have names that are kind of like, You know, quirky things like the, the, you know, like an animal center or something like the cilantro raven and stuff and like someone else might have that name for whatever else, you know, I mean, they have like these cute names like the wilted onion and, and, you know, all this, like, you know, you know, like, nice, nice thinking on the spot there.

[00:16:46] Matt Collins: Mangoes and porridge. I don't know. They have these like names and it's just something that, you know, is proprietarily someone else can also have for whatever other purpose and, you know, just because they think it's cute or it's like a movie reference or something. And [00:17:00] so it's just, it's just kind of, it's something to think about.

[00:17:03] Matt Collins: You know what I mean? Like, it's not a, a great thing. That's why I hate Twitter, because it's like, it's my name, my business name is too long to do on Twitter. So I just don't like it. 

[00:17:13] Chris Spear: Yeah, mine too. I'm PerfectLittleBytes on almost every platform except I have to be like P R F C T L I T L Bytes on Twitter, and it's annoying.

[00:17:22] Chris Spear: That's your stock names when you go public. It is, for sure. Mine's a 

[00:17:25] Matt Collins: P R F T Bytes 

[00:17:27] Chris Spear: stock. So what options are you accepting? Like when you talk to customers about how they can pay you, what do you tell them upfront? 

[00:17:35] Matt Collins: Yeah. So it's, uh, it's on my website and I emailed over them too. And I always say it on the phone that if you want to pay the deposit, it's, um, a check in the mail.

[00:17:43] Matt Collins: Or processing through square, which credit card, which people can link cash app to that and all other stuff. And that's on their end. So I don't have to have a cash app and also squares. Great. I'm not paid by square. I just, some have been using for years and they've never fucked me for lack of a better [00:18:00] term, a family show, I guess, or not.

[00:18:02] Matt Collins: We're all adults. No, you can use the F word on the 

[00:18:04] Chris Spear: show. Oh, 

[00:18:05] Matt Collins: hell yeah, you're gonna 

[00:18:05] Chris Spear: lose that monetization. You can get one FN to make it PG 13. Okay. What if I say, 

[00:18:12] Matt Collins: uh, we're out. Oh no, edit that out, bleep it out. Um, uh, but Square, Square has all these update settings too where they send reminders, so I've had people who, you know, will tell me Hey, um, I'm going to pay after Friday, after my check clears, I'll pay you the deposit.

[00:18:28] Matt Collins: And I'm like, yeah, no worries. You're just going to get emails until it happens. It's not me. It's part of the system. And I just let them know because sometimes I feel bad. I'm like, oh man, this person got like one email a day the last week because they haven't paid. And I don't want to be a dork, but at least it's not me doing it.

[00:18:42] Matt Collins: It's like an automated thing. And then it reminds people too. And because I've had people that I've left because they were drunk and they're like, I'm going to pay via credit card and I send them over the invoice. And, you know, it's normally people I trust, but sometimes it takes a couple days for them to pay it, but every, whatever, 48 [00:19:00] hours, uh, Square's like, hey, unpaid invoice, and it emails me, too, as well, that they saw it.

[00:19:06] Matt Collins: So you're okay leaving without having all your money? It depends on the person, and it depends on the amount of money, and, uh, how other things, like, if they're, if 

[00:19:16] Chris Spear: they live in close proximity to me. Like, I can come to your house and knock on your door saying, I want my two dollars. It doesn't 

[00:19:23] Matt Collins: happen often.

[00:19:24] Matt Collins: I don't want this new thing to happen where now I said online that I'm not a total hard ass. Uh, I'm normally kind of a weirdo. I'm normally kind of like hanging out in the kitchen like sipping on a glass of wine or something, waiting. Where's my money? You're still here? You're still here? The movie's over.

[00:19:38] Matt Collins: Go home. And I'm like, yeah, well you owe me X amount of money. Can we settle up? Or I'll send a text to the host. Because going back 

[00:19:44] Chris Spear: to the wifi issue, like and reception issue, I do lots in like cabins and on the mountains and whatever. And like, I was doing a dinner one time and these people, you know, out by the fire and they're trying to Venmo me and it won't go through.

[00:19:57] Chris Spear: And I just had to leave, like hoping he'd pay me tomorrow. And I [00:20:00] wasn't worried, but I did have someone helping me that night. And she was like, She has her own business, and she's like, oh, hell no, like, I am not leaving property until I'm paid in full. There's no way I would get in that car and leave without knowing that I had the money.

[00:20:11] Matt Collins: But this goes to your, like, Airbnb rental things, and you know the towns. You know if you're going out in the woods. You know what I mean? Like, if I'm going to something in the Poconos or somewhere weird or out in the woods where my phone doesn't work, I'm gonna recommend That it's paid in cash before I get there.

[00:20:27] Matt Collins: I'm like, Hey, I don't know if the credit card process is going to work. I don't know, you know, but you know, typically I hook up to the wifi if that's the case. But you, you never know, because sometimes it's a rental, a Vrbo, or something, or maybe the Wi Fi is down. Where it's just like, you just gotta have a backup plan.

[00:20:41] Matt Collins: And that's like where, you know, I'll take, hey, just give me a check. Because I don't think people are generally going to commit the fraud. You know, you have it, you have a check. I had a huge, huge multi day event, paid by check, and the person cancelled the check. Wow, why was that? [00:21:00] Um, what I think it was is that there wasn't their, their secondary fridges in their garage where I was supposed to sort of the food, uh, broke.

[00:21:08] Matt Collins: And so I told them and they're like, they had so much alcohol and seltzers and their fridge in the kitchen that they had nowhere to put it. And so it got trashed. Um, the leftovers, and I don't normally provide leftovers, I normally do a seated dinner, but this was like a family style thing, so I saved the stuff, but, you know, things sat out for a while, it was a hot summer day, temperature zone, so I think they were just bitter that they didn't have leftovers.

[00:21:34] Matt Collins: So they ate the whole meal, everyone got fed. It was multiple meals. It was a three day event of breakfast, lunch, and dinner for about a dozen ladies. So it was a good sum of money. And then for whatever reason, either the client or the client's assistant, they canceled the check saying it wasn't signed. Um, but then I just called them up and was like, yeah, you're going to have to literally pay me today, like via [00:22:00] credit card, this is insane.

[00:22:01] Matt Collins: But they, they did some weird thing acting like I wouldn't notice that, you know, 4, 000 wasn't in my, my, my checking. So it came out and then I got, I got hit with a fee from the bank, from the check being canceled. Cause it was as if I stole their checkbook and wrote the check, I guess. I'm not really sure.

[00:22:19] Matt Collins: Some legality thing. And so I had a fee from Bank of America for either 50 or 100 that I tacked on. And was like, yeah, I'm not paying that. Like you canceled the check. Like it, cause my balance and my deposit are the same number. If there's no changes. If you don't change the guest account. So it's the exact same number.

[00:22:36] Matt Collins: So, you know, like you, it's no confusion. It's not like, that's why a lot of people do like smaller dollar fees. That I never really understood like, oh, hey, it's a 200 to hold the date. What is that 200 if it's a couple thousand dollar party? 

[00:22:50] Chris Spear: It's like skin in the game though. Like, I feel like people won't duck out.

[00:22:53] Chris Spear: Cause I, you know, I've just noticed and I want to get into deposits. So, I'll make this quick, but like. I never charge a deposit if you [00:23:00] listen to my old podcast about like never having a deposit and then maybe a year and a half ago i just started to have a lot of cancellations like not like we weren't even necessarily having the menu but it would be like the process of like you want this date it's you know the last saturday of this month.

[00:23:15] Chris Spear: Okay, cool. Then I send you a menu and we go back and forth and then you like ghost me. And then all of a sudden, like I follow up and you're like, Oh, we decided to go in another direction. Like that had never happened to me. And like, I'd like eight years of that never happening. And then I had like three of them in the span of two months.

[00:23:30] Chris Spear: I was like, well, just something like people like people return their carts to Aldi because of a quarter. Like that's how cheap people are and how little it takes to get them invested. And I was just like, okay. If they just gave me a hundred bucks just to say, like, here we go, it's a hundred bucks and you will 100 percent be out of that a hundred bucks if you cancel, that's been enough to keep people in line and to not cancel on me.

[00:23:54] Matt Collins: I think you just have to, like, let people know that you, you know, you have a soft hold for about a week until the [00:24:00] deposit. I just followed up with somebody today and was like, hey, you know, how, how'd that menu look for you? And they said, oh, you know, I was busy and I said, you know, no worries. And I. I sent them a couple of options back.

[00:24:09] Matt Collins: That to me is pretty standard, but I have to keep tabs on. I have like a whole section of my, my calendar and my notebook of like, these are the people and I write the date that I sent them the menu. And then when I'm supposed to follow back up, if I don't hear from them, cross them off. And then, you know, I have people who follow up in that week span for that date, like somebody else.

[00:24:29] Matt Collins: And I just got to tell them like, uh, you know, Hey, I'll know within 48 hours or whatever. And then I normally apply a little bit of pressure. What is 

[00:24:38] Chris Spear: your amount that you're asking for a deposit? 

[00:24:40] Matt Collins: I do 50 percent of the, uh, invoice. So that way, because I do different courses and different size parties, and then I have different, you know, whether it's travel, whatever.

[00:24:52] Matt Collins: I just like people to agree 100 percent what they're paying for. Because if you take a deposit, and someone's expectations of [00:25:00] what the dinner's going to cost is completely different, Then what are they going to want to do with that deposit if they don't want to move forward with the event? Why would you have the deposit because you held the date?

[00:25:09] Chris Spear: I don't take a deposit until we've talked numbers like you know Like they know they know straight out like how much the dinner is gonna be before I take a deposit as well 

[00:25:17] Matt Collins: Yeah, but there's a lot of variables You know I mean if someone wants to you know add something premium to it or someone wants to add another course or someone wants to do the main family style I have to charge more for that because it's a lot more portions.

[00:25:29] Matt Collins: And so I have to tack on that. And so there is that fluctuation and I just like it to be completely agreed upon before there's a deposit. So that way there's just zero confusion. Um, you know, I had someone recently who went over all the pricing. They couldn't hear me well on the phone. They were walking their dog.

[00:25:45] Matt Collins: Uh, they live in a neighborhood where. You know, cars are driving by like a, you know, more urban North Jersey neighborhood. And, um, then we went over stuff for about a week. And I thought you said 30 ahead. Didn't you say 30 ahead? It [00:26:00] wasn't even like that. They were fine with the menu costs. It was just my staffing, my, my, my booking and travel.

[00:26:05] Matt Collins: And it was all things I said on the phone. And I mentioned a story. That sometimes when people get the bill, they freak out. So I was like, you know, just make, I just wanted to let you know, cause they thought I was a little long winded. They might've just got bored of listening to me talk, but we laughed about it.

[00:26:20] Matt Collins: And then four days later I send the bill and they're like, well, there's like 600 in fees. Because there was a staffer, travel, and the 150 booking fee that's all on the website, and I was like, we went over this, and so I apologized, I said we could cut back the menu, but they were just so, like, offended that there was additional fees that they just didn't want to do it, and I turned away three other dinners, um, for that day, in that week's span, because I thought they were a lock, because we had such a good conversation on the phone, that I was like, you know, in the referral, and so I was like, this person's doing this shit, like, I don't want to muddy the waters, and And hold people on and piss them off because some of the other people calling me were also like regular people.

[00:26:56] Matt Collins: I do business regularly with and I didn't want to put them in a weird situation if [00:27:00] I didn't think the person was going to cancel. 

[00:27:02] Chris Spear: Yeah, people are weird. I mean, just this week, like, I don't know, for some reason, I had Friday open. I had someone reach out to me like last week and say they wanted a dinner.

[00:27:11] Chris Spear: This week i was like yeah i've got like i talked to him on the phone and she was all excited about how her daughter loves food and cooking and she's like yeah we you know that sounds great send me a menu like i'll get it to you in a couple hours and like i stopped everything i was doing like made a menu sent it.

[00:27:26] Chris Spear: And then nothing and this was like last Thursday didn't hear anything and then like yesterday she sends an email was like it doesn't sound like our schedules are going to line and our family will be in town, but it's like I just talked to you like 3 days ago and you said Friday like it's not like I had something else cooking, but just like that.

[00:27:44] Chris Spear: Like people don't think about things like that. Like it's a Friday night. 

[00:27:48] Matt Collins: You're new to being ghosted. I get that all the time. We're all followed people like a week later and like, oh, yeah, we're just not doing it. And I'm like, why didn't you just say something when you knew? Because normally if we're on the [00:28:00] phone, we're talking, we're, you know, I'm saying you got.

[00:28:03] Matt Collins: You got the poll, you got a week of a soft hold. I'll follow with you. I'm telling you, I'm going to follow up. You know, I'm going to reach out. So why wouldn't you just, when you decide how to do it, say, we're not doing it and open it back up for the next person in the queue. Because otherwise I'm leading someone else on.

[00:28:18] Matt Collins: Hey, I'll get back to you in 48 hours and then they're not even, you know, making other plans or they're nervous or they're looking at other people that do the event or the dinner. I don't know that that's like a whole other thing to the deposit that we're just like, like parsing like human behavior, but I think the point of the deposit is having a number that makes people not want to cancel, like my deposit was refundable, you know, within a certain timeframe up until, you know, maybe a year after COVID started because it just got too out of hand because it was just so much rescheduling that I was like, Okay.

[00:28:54] Matt Collins: I can't have, you know, 60 days a year scheduled and canceled. There's only so many [00:29:00] Friday, Saturdays and Sundays that people want. 

[00:29:02] Chris Spear: But I do feel a lot of chefs, um, not myself particularly or specifically, um, don't want to take that because they're hoping they're going to get cash and maybe all that doesn't get reported.

[00:29:14] Chris Spear: You know, when you're taking a deposit check for. 1, 500 that has to be deposited, that's one thing, but if someone slips you 1, 500 cash, maybe they did, maybe they didn't, and, and just saying that, like, I know that that's probably something that nobody wants to talk about, but I know that that's something that happens, people love getting paid in cash.

[00:29:34] Matt Collins: That's an unpopular, I have the unpopular opinion of that is I want to claim everything I do for my business so I can keep track year to year. No one's making enough money that by every single dinner you do, like I do 100 a year, if I didn't claim 100 off every dinner I did at the end of the year, what is that?

[00:29:53] Matt Collins: 10, 000? If I did that. Well, what am I buying with that? A new car? Then [00:30:00] wouldn't I, like, I'm like asking to be audited. Oh, you know, not, you can't even buy a new car for 10 grand, but I'm just saying, like, what, what is the point of that? You're not like living outside your means. You're not like buying a house with it.

[00:30:12] Matt Collins: Like, you're just. Doing all this work isn't breaking 

[00:30:15] Chris Spear: bad. You don't have like a stash of cash like in your heating ducts 

[00:30:19] Matt Collins: You're just asking to get audited and then like I have like a vanilla envelope of receipts And then I have like an Excel of all my spending. Why would I want to have to go through that with an order?

[00:30:29] Matt Collins: I pay somebody a good chunk and change to do my taxes and to look over everything. Why am I gonna send them fake numbers? And then keep my real numbers to make sure I know how my business is growing. I'm doing air quotes because it's such a stupid thing. 

[00:30:43] Chris Spear: You have a little notepad under your bed. 

[00:30:45] Matt Collins: I'm just saying, I'm just saying.

[00:30:47] Matt Collins: No, it's just like weird. I actually have it right here. Oh, nice. 

[00:30:52] Chris Spear: There 

[00:30:52] Matt Collins: you go. And I have little up and down arrows in the year before because I tally up what I do each month and I compare it to the year before. [00:31:00] And then I know if I'm, if I want to spend more on advertising, if I want to work more on that.

[00:31:04] Matt Collins: But I just think cash isn't that crazy. Like, I don't want to go on some like conservative podcast thing where it's like the government wants you to Venmo everything so they could tell you when you can't and can't spend money. But I just think cash cash is a nice option because it makes people feel more comfortable.

[00:31:22] Matt Collins: People like being able to hand you cash so that way you can tip your staff in cash so that way they feel like or they want to give your staff cash themselves and shake their hand or pat them on the shoulder and say thank you and have that human element to it because that's like an old school thing you go to a restaurant you really like your server or your bartender you feel good giving them a tip and a lot of times that's like a guest at the event who didn't have to pay for the dinner and they just want to say thank you and they don't want to feel I love it when they put it in 

[00:31:51] Chris Spear: your chef pocket and then, like, tap your chest.

[00:31:54] Chris Spear: Oh, my God. You ever have that happen? Like, just slide it in that chef pocket and just, like, tap you, like, there you go. The last [00:32:00] time it happened, I felt like a stripper. 

[00:32:01] Matt Collins: I felt disgusting. 

[00:32:03] Chris Spear: Have you ever been asked if you're a stripper when you show up to do a bachelorette party? Like, you show up and you're like, are you really a chef?

[00:32:08] Chris Spear: And I'm like, I can be whatever you want for the right price. 

[00:32:10] Matt Collins: I just had this conversation because i did a bachelorette party on sunday and the joke came about and i said it happens once in a while but i i think i've moved past the drunk santa shirtless wearing only apron promo photos from two years ago i don't get as many comments anymore i might i have to do a new shoot 

[00:32:29] Chris Spear: well thanks matt for coming on the show and i know we'll have you back real soon have a good one.

[00:32:34] Chris Spear: You're still here? The podcast's over! If you are indeed still here, thanks for taking the time to listen to the show. I'd love to direct you to one place, and that's chefswithoutrestaurants. org. From there, you'll be able to join our email newsletter, get connected in our free Facebook group, and join our personal chef, catering, and food truck database so I can help get you more job leads.

[00:32:56] Chris Spear: And you'll also find a link to our sponsor page, where you'll find products and services I [00:33:00] love. You pay nothing additional to use these links, but I may get a small commission, which helps keep the Chefs Without Restaurants podcast and organization running. You might even get a discount for using some of these links.

[00:33:11] Chris Spear: As always, you can reach out to me on Instagram at chefswithoutrestaurants or send me an email at chefswithoutrestaurants at gmail. com. Thanks so much.