Property AI Report 082 - SpaceX IPO, Agent Regulation & Microsoft's Chinese Integrations

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Property AI Report
00:48 Government Announcements Impacting the Property Market
07:54 The Role of AI in Property Searches
11:43 Interest Rates and Market Trends
14:28 SpaceX IPO and AI Developments
24:39 Microsoft's New AI Integrations
31:14 Tool of the Week

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hi everybody and welcome to the Property AI Report. This is your weekly digest of all things property and AI. Brought to you by me, Mal McAlian, and my good friend co-host Matt Goddard. Matt, how are you this very warm weekend?

SPEAKER_00 0:12

I'm I'm great, Mal. Unlike Dario Amaday, I've not been at a wellness retreat all set just to battle with these uh questions ahead of us.

SPEAKER_02 0:20

Yes, you're still looking very, very chill. So, you know, congratulations. Wait for that uh missive from the government uh just to rattle a little bit. Um anyway, we have some property news to cover off first. So let us dive in their big shake up this week um in terms of the government's announcement about what it wants to do with the property market. So um kind of headlines between now and the end of this parliament, so 2029. Um they're gonna want to um uh consult um by the middle of next year, actually 2027, on whether to get data agents, particularly to uh be qualified. Um, there's going to be loads of stuff around pre-packed um kind of um sales packs ready for people to sell. Um it's gonna be a little bit closer to the system that works pretty, pretty well up uh up in Scotland. And uh yeah, overall, I think it's been pretty well received by most commentators that I can see. Matt, what's your take?

SPEAKER_00 1:13

Positive, isn't it? And I know you say there's the political slant that the the timelines arrive just before um got the next election, potentially, right? But uh I think some people could look at it and say, well, upfront sales packs, we've been there, done that before, but times have shifted as well, right? There's the shift to digital that's a big part of this. And again, it's you could sort of look at it and say, well, the government's struggling to bring in that that side of things for enters reform act, but at the same time, if you don't get started on something, you're never going to deliver it. So let's crack on and try to deal with it.

SPEAKER_02 1:45

Yeah, I mean it did there is colossal kind of irony/slash, you know, mirroring of you know the mid-2000s when hips, as you say, were kind of you know a big thing. They came in and then very quickly they were kind of kiboshed. Um, I think that the the ground has been sort of um uh is a little bit more fertile now, isn't it, for that sort of activity. People are less um less considered. Because I remember back then, you know, the the big fear was basically people wouldn't just put their properties on the market because they've got this big, huge you know, cost up front and effort up front and all that sort of stuff. But I think we have been softened up now along the way with material information, you know, ABC and all that, um, and and you know, people actually being able to discover a huge load of this stuff up early doors anyway, um, because of the the the free availability of um of information around on the the internet and elsewhere. So yeah, so I think it's yeah, it it's broadly positive. Uh I saw one dissenting voice from the conveyancing area. There was one kind of mid-sized uh conveyancer saying this is the end of you know conveyancing as we know it, it's all bad. What about all the independent firms and all that sort of stuff? But I think that really kind of just highlights that actually, you know, once you make data free, then all of the people that whose in in whose interests it is to kind of keep it closed off and make the process long, they're gonna squeal. So I actually took that as kind of uh a bit of a positive.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

It's also interesting, isn't it? You're dissenting voices stand out. And I know my my dad will be throwing stuff at the wireless, and which he doesn't listen to this on the wireless, but uh I just felt like saying that because Bridge McFarland, the linkage-based solicitors he worked for, introduced I think it's called Fast Move, he'll correct me on that, no doubt. Where it was all about upfront sales packs and then getting people to engage and getting agencies across Lincolnshire to buy into it. And then you think about people like Complete ASAP, they have an offering that's based around this, so as you're getting your components in quotas to start putting this together at no fee. And even is it people like Red Brick and Sheffield? Obviously, with Red Brick, he's able to be very authoritarian and say this is something we must do. Because I know the the challenge does come to that point where the property doesn't come to the market as quick if you're gathering this information first. But actually, if you're in the position where you say, Look, you have to do this and you can run your agency that way, then it actually makes things a lot quicker. And I was talking to one company yesterday where from instruction to completion is currently over 300 days. Now they are a London agency, you could argue that maybe it's on the market for longer than you'd expect. So there's being London, there's a lot more leaseholds, but even anything to do that, and as you rightly commented, you know, north of the wall have got these things in place, haven't they? The binding agreements, the the the upfront home packs, yeah. And you know, sourcing things out in a matter of days.

SPEAKER_02 4:25

And and it just works, yeah, exactly. And then you know, for for a long time, and we've touched it on this podcast before, it's like it's literally the the answer is up there. It kind of works, and yet we're kind of seeing it going, oh, how do we get it below 140 days? It's like just copy that, mate. Um, so no, I think it's um I I I do think it is a huge opportunity. I think you know, for for right-thinking agents that they're gonna support the qualifications as well, right? Because that's gonna actually um, you know, it it's that important marker of expertise. It will shake out some of the um less salubrious agents and mean that, you know, that that actually probably, like most of the rest of the world, fees will start to climb a little bit because there's recognition that actually these guys are are really, really good at what they do. I do think as well it's gonna be interesting how uh that how that's kind of gonna fit in a little bit with kind of um uh the the kind of fees upfront fee kind of movement as well, you know. So actually if you are you know demonstrably doing some work up front and you are actually you know building these uh these packs and putting them together, then actually charging uh people for putting the property on the market is probably going to be even more sensible and even more of a kind of a cash flow positive kind of thing as well. So, yeah, all of those uh businesses that have been busy uh merrily building their kind of pre-sale packs and probably in for some good times coming up, although I imagine there's going to be some serious consolidation because there's loads of them.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

Yeah, well absolutely, and every week there seems to be someone new offering that uh that approach, doesn't there?

SPEAKER_02 5:48

It really does. Yeah, and obviously I think yeah, that now with this kind of support, I think it's um yeah, that there will be some not that there aren't serious players in there already, um, but I think you know there will be some kind of very um significantly funded um people kind of looking at this now and going, actually, maybe uh maybe we can start to to scoop up some some serious business. I think one thing. There may not be those. I was just gonna say that there may still be those who are burned by the fact that they you know there were so many kind of hip sort of um uh qualified you know, people who would go out and actually value property and all that sort of stuff, and they were and they were badly burned back in the day. But uh but yes, I'm sure it's gonna be different this time around, right?

SPEAKER_00 6:26

Well, that's that was the point I was gonna make as well, is like you think about those naysayers who said it, you know, we it didn't work last time, it's not gonna work this time. I'd I thought of a sort of a simile, although albeit in lettings, that back in early 2000s, Fox's tried to bring direct debits in when there was like a couple of thousand tenancies and it it didn't work. So when we started proposing it towards the end of sort of 2009, 2010, it's like, well, it didn't work for us before. It's like, well, technology had moved on at that stage, not huge, but enough. And so we reviewed it. Actually, at that time, we didn't go with direct debits because of the exposure and direct debit approach meant that people could claw back the entire sort of term of a direct debit, which is quite a lot of uh risk. But even so, you know, things then move again. So you should revisit and recheck. And at a time where you know the the capability of technology is shifting and doubling every four months, what why can't we make this work?

SPEAKER_02 7:20

Yeah, significantly. But yeah, no, I I think that that's absolutely right. That I think we all need to, we're all kind of guilty of kind of going back and going, well, it didn't work last time, so probably it would work this time. But yeah, I think you in the age of in the age of AI, basically go back and check all of your previous prejudices and decisions because um things could be very, very different right now. All right, um talking of AI, one of our favourite subjects. Um we uh are uh interested this week to see uh Graham Norwood reports in the the estate agent today uh that there's been a survey out saying that people think that AI will replace right move for property searches, say recent buyers. So this is a poll of 500 um homeowners who purchased in the last 12 months, and over a quarter of them um say that they could see that that essentially AI is going to replace these traditional portals, mainly because you know they can find out different data that isn't um specific to these. They can also probably access the the whole of market rather than just the um the the subset that are advertised on these um on these traditional portals. But um but yes, uh there's almost 50% of them think that um AI will become um uh key in the um in the home buying process. Um so it's gonna be um interesting um to to see how this all plays out. So it's a comp by a company called UK Property Development who uh who built this uh build this out. Um Matt, what's your thoughts?

SPEAKER_00 8:35

I uh obviously I'm not not saying this because there's someone from my porter kicking around, but um the that shifts everyone should be much more informed, right? And it's a a generation where to chat GPT is replacing to Google, and actually I found myself foolishly smirking at someone who said, Oh, I Googled that earlier this week. But actually it's becoming more informed. And it it just means that you can personalise that search. There is that still challenge, which I know you'll be working on that even now, AI is non-deterministic. So if you're asking for something and there's a sufficient level of stock, you'll get different results each time and you need to evolve. But I also think combination of the large language models and the harnesses and the tools those harnesses have will sort of boost people even further. And I also think this will start bleeding for even more into the processor, not just portals, but some of the skills that negotiators do at the moment and sort of taking on some of those tasks where it's case you're looking for a three-bed with outside space in in Camberwell, maybe you can't afford it in that area, but actually go ten minutes down the road and into the next area, you know, SW9 instead of SE5, sort of start to actually help with those conversations. But uh it's certainly it's certainly the reason that a lot of these companies are starting to bring AI into their experience, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 9:51

Yeah, and and and I do think to your point about um the uh the non-deterministic side of things. So essentially if you do a uh search for you know three bedroom properties, sea view, near ballroom dancing classes on the south coast, um, then it it'll bring back five, generally five options for you, which will be absolutely perfect. But then if you ask it again, it will bring back a different five. And part of that is because of this this kind of compute crunch, right? It wants to bring you back an answer and it hopes that those first five are going to be the right answer. But it doesn't take long for you as a property searcher to then start worrying that actually am I gonna see the whole of the market or do I have to kind of go somewhere else without overplaying it? That's obviously what we're solvent of my porter is. You have 100% of available properties, deliverable properties, um, and you can find them by basically just by vibe searching, essentially. So yeah, I I do think that that it's it's changing already. I think it's gonna continue to change. I speak to agents, you know, I've been out on my tour again this week, Bournemouth, Sheffield, various other blazes, but Birmingham. Thank you. Yes, as as I get stuck on as we were talking earlier on about it, um, and a couple of others that have also forgotten from Wednesday. But it's um yeah, it's it's it's increasingly clear that agents are starting to get leads through from you know ChatGPT and various others, and and actually by optimizing their sites and by you know working with AI companies, you can make sure that actually you're starting to get your um get your name out there and it's gonna be increasingly important. The earlier agents start, you know, again, but that the earlier you start on this, the the more it is going to benefit you. And but yes, I think people are very, yeah, like you say, that I hear people talking about Googling stuff um these days, and it's like that's that's kind of moving further. I don't uh but now I hear people talking about chat GPTing stuff, and that's you know, that that is now the verb. So yeah, I think it's gonna be it's gonna change. I think it's gonna change a lot faster than many people think. And I think that anybody out there who's kind of listening in um and thinking about whether they need to kind of get involved, then, then now is definitely the time. All right, that is um our second story on the property news. Um next up, um, we wanted to talk about interest rates because they have been stuck for this is the fourth time this week that uh that rates have been kind of on hold, various macro things flying around, like obviously the Iran War, which is now notionally in some kind of ceasefire. But uh but yes, the Bank of England have have kind of um yeah, decided to to hold everything steady and just wait and see for another another session. Like you, Matt, I'm I'm hearing a lot of agents who, you know, are are talking whether behind their hands or or out loud about the fact that the market's a little bit a little bit difficult right now. But uh yeah, what's um what's your take on this one?

SPEAKER_00 12:17

It's the same time that we saw like mortgage rates are actually coming down as well, right? So it's uh it's interesting that it's held, and I know there's a a concern around inflation, but the there is definitely I think it's maybe more London bias in terms of um sort of uh sales prices dropping and and sort of sort of engagement in that in that state rather than some of the you know more more out-of-town areas. But uh it's uh it's uh interest to see where it goes next. As you touched on, like the Iran Walls seem to be stopped. And then I'm hearing this morning on the news that Strait of Hammoose has been shut again and uh how that's gonna start impacting oil prices and then where we go next from there. But uh I think what one thing we didn't really touch on in the in the summary of the notes is there was a lot of positivity at Property Mark One last Friday, and a lot of interest to see where things were going and and and how things were looking. And uh I I think in in every time that things slow down, there's an opportunity for for people to to focus in on the basics and make sure that they're they're growing market share.

SPEAKER_02 13:14

Hmm. And and yeah, to to your point, you know, as I've gone around the country, a lot of the agents that I'm speaking to, and perhaps they're kind of self-selecting as forward-thinking agents who kind of you know wanna who who appreciate opportunity rather than look back at um uh concerns. They're broadly around the country seem to be you know pretty positive about where it's where it's all gonna go. Um so yeah, look, uh I I I think it is um it's not quite a kind of two two-level market inside London and outside London, but um that there are green shoots, I think, of positivity. I think if you know if if it can if a ceasefire can hold in just for a kind of time date check, it's it's we're on Saturday morning, 20th of June, right now, about half ten. And uh yes, that the right things change every single day. So who knows what's going to be happening like later on today. We'll talk later about Fable 5, which we touched on last episode. Um and yeah, literally within about two hours of us recording it, basically that was that was over. So yes, I think that yeah, th things are changing. I think that um yeah, the the the holding this level is is is fine for now. As you say, mortgage rates do seem to be diverging slightly from that, which is great. Um but uh yes, hopefully um as we kind of go into to the summer and yeah, peace kind of steady, then uh particularly when we come into the autumn, things are gonna start to kick up and that'll be good for everybody. All right, that's the end of our property news this week. Let's dive into our AI and tech news. Right, and the biggest story, is it the biggest story? Probably. SpaceX. So it's a toss-up between SpaceX and Fable 5. So we're gonna go with SpaceX IPO um first up. Um so they did this last Friday, and we spoke about it um in the previous episode of the podcast. Uh and uh yes, it was the biggest ever IPO so um public offering, and it grew significantly, didn't it? And it's continued to go up. Um so we now have it valued, SpaceX valued at 2.4 trillion, I think. Which is insane. Um also it has made uh Elon Musk the first trillionaire, individual trillionaire, as a result of his shareholding in this particular entity. Um, and there's been various other bits and pieces that have happened around here, right? But but yeah, pretty strong news for a business that is yeah, obviously very cool in space, but also it's got a big AI element, hasn't it?

SPEAKER_00 15:22

It's it it's really they've done this by the uh by the playbook, haven't they, in terms of how to take a business to market. They did all the right signalling, the right uh sort of conversations, the sixty billion dollar deal with with Cursor, it's been right the way through, and as you say, the the the money's insane and and a bit I guess sickening in a way. These it must hold 46% shareholding, so obviously at the two point whatever trillion market cap it's at at the moment. But when I say that they've done it by the by the playbook, that's in stark contrast to what Anthropic have been up to, right? In our other big headline one. So yeah, yes, yes, they've done it, yes, I think it's gonna kick on from there. I'm sure there'll be some normalization as you sort of talked about off air as well. But I it I don't think we could have done it much better.

SPEAKER_02 16:07

Yeah, I agree strongly. And and like you say, you know, they they've now said they're going to acquire cursor, you know, and and that in itself is like a huge, huge, huge deal for like you know, 60 billion, um, which obviously is now chump changed to them as they've um basically got so much cash floating around. So but yes, so that the acquisition of cursors seems to be this kind of rebuild of XAI. So again, just to recap, Musk a few weeks ago started saying that the XAI, so the the uh the frontier model that they built, Grok with his um his lab, uh basically is it was built wrong from the start. So actually they need to rebuild it. And all of the co-founders and all of the builders of of XAI kind of left. So it seems like they're requiring Cursor basically to start then this rebuild. They've rented out all the space on their um uh on their data warehouses, Colossus 1 and Colossus 2, um, to Anthropic and Google and various others. So yeah, it's um it it does seem like this is a this is the precursor to them going hard all over again at at this area um and they've got a lot of money to do it. But as you say, uh moving on to the second story, Anthropic. Having having almost not put a foot wrong this year, now seem to have found themselves in some serious, um, some serious trouble. Um, and to to the point that their most um important release this year pre-their IPO, which is expected in the next few weeks, has been pulled by the US government, hasn't it?

SPEAKER_00 17:28

Yeah, and then it goes all the way back to our Greek beer, doesn't it? When Mythos first came out and and all the sound was this is so dangerous, we're not gonna release it.

SPEAKER_01 17:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

And like looking back now in hindsight, it's okay so you're making are you using this as a way of really pumping up the PR around what you are doing? Marketing. Um exactly, and like that negativity, and they've obviously had the battle with the Department of War previously, where it's like you can't use us for for killing people and and and internal surveillance and such like, and be putting almost that holier than thou, we are here to keep the world safe sort of approach. And then if you think about the timeline, 28th of May, they'll they release claude Opus 4.8 and made big song and dance about that. And then a few days later, they put out a big press release about you know AI is getting really, really dangerous, and we need the US government to be looking at this. And and our video that's only just come out this week, but I think was recorded around the same time was Dario Amade going on a show and saying, Look, AI should you should have a license to use AI in the same way, you need a gun license to use it. And so it's like putting that out just after your biggest, most powerful release. And then for the first time, where you know we talk about the the models swinging punches at each other, and it's like I'll put out the latest version of Claude, and then I'll put out the latest version of GPT, and then I'll put the latest version of Gemini, it's almost like this circle of top-rated models just replacing each other at the the number one spot. Suddenly we had Claude Opus 4.8, we had this massive PR release about AI's really dangerous and the government needs to step in and control everybody, otherwise it's gonna get out of hand. And then they released Fable 5 in another matter of days before anyone else could get a new model out. And so, what do you expect? Like the government listened to you. What a shock. And what was the other bit that we sort of said at the start? Like Darius Amaday, the government called him to say, look, we've heard about these jailbreaks that mean it's really, really risky. You need to call us back. Because obviously I'd I'd live in what the conversation would be. I don't know if they'd have that sort of Grimsby terminology in there. And they didn't call him back because he was at a wellness retreat, allegedly. And it's like allegedly, yeah. You you are like these companies now, and it's really motive, but like they've they've got the like the codes, haven't they? They've got the nuclear codes in a way. Um if you have someone that big call you're saying we need to speak too urgently, you don't just go put your neighboring mud pack on or whatever it is, you do it as far as put some more water on the up there on the fire.

SPEAKER_02 19:46

Yeah, no, it's it it is it it it's a crazy, um, a crazy kind of moment, I think. And like you say, you know, personalities are getting involved as well. You know, there is again, allegedly, um, the US government, Pete Hageseth in particular, who's the uh the Secretary of State for War, particularly hates Amadei because of this, you know, you you can't use us for for badness, um, and he's all gung-ho for for kind of you know bombing everybody. Um and that so there's personal animosity, and and they believe that actually there is a big chunk of this decision that is driven by that personal animosity and and the look, you better do what we say because otherwise we'll just close down your models and your toast. So, you know, that's so so there's personalities there. There's also the stuff in the background about Amazon, right? Which is again is really weird because Amazon is like a huge investor in that. Exactly. So it's about Andy Jassy, who is the um the chief exec of Amazon and with um with Bezos' chair, and apparently it was him that um that that phoned the Department of War and kind of grasped up that they were able to jailbreak this thing.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

But again, because he didn't get a response from Anthropic, allegedly. And all of this is actually gossip and rumors and and whatever else. But I think the thing is, and I sort of touched on it with Cursor when we were talking offline, the the guy who's selling Cursor for 60 billion is 25 years old. I think companies are really quite junior companies that have appeared over the last two or three years. I don't think they realise just how much power, how much reliance, just or whatever the right word, like they are underpinning the future, right? And they need to sort of grow up quickly the right turn afraid, but they realise that you know if the government calls you.

SPEAKER_02 21:16

You feel me like they're dad. Come on, kids.

SPEAKER_00 21:19

But but um yeah, do in a way, but uh also it sets a dangerous precedent for everyone else, right? When are we gonna see obviously ChatGT 5.5 is really powerful, but are OpenAI gonna be reticent about making the next release? Like the the the the hardest part about this control that the American government did at 5.21 pm last Friday is they said that non US citizens could use it. And so it's case how do you control that? And and that wasn't right. You you've said the only way to control that is to take it down completely. But also, I was listening this morning to something. They haven't actually filed the the correct paperwork to to have that mandate in. So they put it in the threat environment phone call, but there hasn't anything passed through Congress to to make So it's like it as you say, it all comes down to personalities and people who are anthropic need to realise they need to maybe play play the game slightly.

SPEAKER_02 22:08

Yeah, and and and you know, again to to to that point, Amazon again to this morning uh are in the news because um they've actually pulled a so they they were supporting the distribution of a film about uh Sam Altman, which is called Artificial and has got, I think, Andrew Garfield in it or whatever. And and they were gonna distribute it and now that they've done a deal with Open AI. So they've done a deal with Sam Altman, and now they've gone, actually, we're not gonna like, you know, and and it's been filmed, like they closed like you know last summer and it was due to release like you know in the next six months or so. And they've gone, no, actually, we're not gonna distribute it. And it's like this these these kind of power moves that Amazon is now like the central kind of like um uh king maker of various things. OpenAI is is is sitting in the background, like you say, you know, it's sitting on 5.5, probably 5.6 is is due or six soon. But they they want their own their own IPO, all right? But they and and they want to probably beat um Anthropic to the punch. So all of this is great news for Sam Altman because now Fable 5 is locked up, Anthropic is you know persona non grata, and therefore their IPO might be damaged by that, and maybe actually OpenAI can sneak in under the radar and get theirs out and away before before Anthropic can. And it's just all these kind of like you know, tectonic plate moves and things like that. And but what is Amazon doing if they own this much of Anthropic that's worth billions? Who knows? Who knows? I'm sure there's some kind of 5D chess being played by somebody somewhere, and but uh yes, it's been um it's been a big a big week for the the big kind of movers, so you know the the the Amazons, the SpaceX, the kind of anthropics, and and perhaps even to a to a greater extent open AI just by not being involved.

SPEAKER_00 23:41

On on the 5D chess, is it Jason and the Argonauts that starts with like the gods picking up the pieces and dropping them on the set? Is it a feeling? Yeah, no, it's just classic. It's someone moving Sam Altman and Darius Amada into different spots, but AWS underpins all this, right? They're running on AWS architecture, so they've sort of got some circular revenue coming there because they're basically paying the money that then comes back to themselves.

SPEAKER_02 24:06

Yeah, and there is a you know in in our list of potential things to talk about, there's an AWS story about um AI traffic monetization, right? So actually there's gonna they're gonna meter the traffic through AWS as well. So it's like, yeah, maybe there was them all along. Maybe it's Bezos. Bezos is actually basically moving everybody around. Exactly right. Yeah. Um, all right. So um next up in our AI and tech news, not to be outdone, Microsoft has decided that this is the week where it's going to um introduce a um a Chinese model for co-pilot co-work. Um and this is Microsoft bringing Deep Seek into their um ecosystem. A Deep Seek, obviously, one of the um the big stories from the beginning of 2025, I'm gonna say. Yeah, yeah. Feels like um not that long ago. Um, back when the Omni did the OpenStack.

SPEAKER_00 24:58

Well, it wasn't the first reasonable model, was it? But it was the first one that made it public because we had a O3 out at that time.

SPEAKER_02 25:03

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So so it was basically it it crashed quite a few um share prices at the time by like up to 20% um because it was um open source and really, really powerful and shook people's beliefs whether China could actually catch up with uh with America. People suddenly thinking actually, yes, they they probably can. Um but now Deep Seek is so much um you know, it's so much part of the establishment that Microsoft has decided to bung it into uh to Office and to Windows and stuff like that. So yeah, Matt, um being a Microsoft um pilled guy, uh what's your take on this?

SPEAKER_00 25:33

Well, there's actually a couple of Microsoft ones, and I didn't manage to drop it into the notes, but that this one's interesting because it all sort of echoes what you closed out the show with last week, where you were talking about don't just rely on one model, it might be a model for one use case and a different model for another use case, and you don't need the most powerful, most expensive ones for for everything. And that's that's absolutely true. And a lot of people like OpenRoot2, who I met last month, where they're making a living out of, they decide based on what you're asking it, where they root the mod uh root it out and then no point intended, and then return from there. And you know, there's I was talking to a company this week, right? It's like why why don't we have a version of Gemma 4, the Google's open weights model, an open source model, so that that that deals with most things and we're not paying costs for that. And then these open source models are are as powerful as like even the last point release of of like the domain foundational labs, right? And I thought this one was interesting because clearly Microsoft were listening to last week's pod, and when Miles made a good point there, we should diversify and look at some of these open source models ourselves so that we're not passing through through the income. But um, it's it just it's really interesting given the the backdrop of everything else happening this week. And the other part I found insightful was Microsoft at their their launch two weeks ago now that we had the World Wide Developer Day from them, and the they released a thing called M Dash, which is a blend of different models, and actually on Cyber it outbeat mythos on the benchmarking, and it sort of floated under the radar, and it's using different models for different scenarios, but within specifically cyber, I think it's like six percent higher on the benchmarking. So it's like if if mythos can't be released because it's too dangerous, and Microsoft's like me, hey you know, over here, we've done something, we're just not gonna make a fanfare of it. If I yeah, it goes back to that question of was it PR all along and did the boy who cried wolf got got caught out with uh the whole fable piece?

SPEAKER_02 27:26

Yeah, 100%. And then I mean to be clear, I use Fable as as I know you did at the end of last week, and um it was awesome. And it is amazing, and when it comes back, it will be amazing. Um but uh but yes, also uh, and again to this point, you know, being able to switch things in and switch them out is really, really important because I and I know you as well, um, have got had projects that I was running on Fable 5 because I'd started them up and then it said, oh no, you can't use Fable V anymore. So you actually had to go and rebuild it in Opus 4.8 because it was plugged into to that particular model. So yeah, you know, that that flexibility and the ability to unplug and then plug in a new one, um I think is going to become one of the most critical, the almost critical business decisions that you make, you know, when when you're when you're deploying AI in your business. Because if you do get stuck on one particular avenue, then you you're at the mercy of the kind of the fates that have befallen um from various models um over the last sort of couple of weeks or so. So, yeah, that's um a bit of Microsoft um and uh Chinese models. And as part of that as well, Matt, you um you saw this story about Sakana AI, um which is another model just launched and which has not content with deep research or heavy deep research, we've now got ultra deep research, right?

SPEAKER_00 28:39

Well that's it, and it it just shows that the the uh rate at which things are getting churned out, right? That this this is Tokyo-based AI startup and just the speed that they go in and it can run for for uh what is it, a hundred page reports plus in eight hours, which you'll then need another model to distill that down into an executive summary. But the speed and power of things coming out, as I touched on earlier, uh last month they said capabilities doubling every four months, and you can absolutely see that now with the the things that are at our uh the options. Obviously, you wouldn't use this just for saying uh what am I gonna have for my lunch? But uh if you're doing some market analysis or something similar, then it's uh ideal, right?

SPEAKER_02 29:19

You have to be really serious though about what on earth you were doing, because a hundred-page uh reports I'm sure are going to be great for some people, but yeah, it's um it's not necessarily, as you say, for the uh for your daily uh daily digest of the news, is it? Um so yeah, no, there's the the there's so much happening out there, and and just for clarity, I do uh recognise that Tokyo is not based in China as I tried my segue from China to Sakana. But uh but yes, the the models from from Asia and elsewhere, you know, that are now really starting to kind of kick in and and make a difference, you know, and and and others will be following this particular um the styles of um of build. And yeah, I'm sure it won't be long before we see some ultra deep research in various other models as we get through. All right, final story in our AI and uh tech news. I just wanted to touch on because as we know, I do love a good um AI video. Um Groc Imagine Video 1.5 um is with us, and the claim is that it uh tops the video leaderboard. For full disclosure, I haven't tried it, um, but it looks looks pretty good. The um samples that they've put out are always like amazing because they're always the best samples. Again, regular viewers will know that uh that I'm currently in love with um with CDream 2.0. Um but uh but yeah, this looks very much like um it's probably gonna get run out sometime this weekend um as we kind of build out the next uh the next sort of marketing for for our business.

SPEAKER_00 30:36

What else would you do in 28 degree heat, Mal? Sit and uh to run through some AI video models.

SPEAKER_02 30:42

Shut the curtains, lock all the doors. Um, going deep. But uh yes, no, it should be uh yeah, that that will be my my fun for this weekend. All right, um that is our AI and tech news. Uh let's move on to our tool of the week. Uh Matt, this is um something that you've been playing around with and it looks like it's really good.

SPEAKER_00 31:00

Yeah, so so Repli was one of the, I suppose it wasn't, it didn't start as a vibe coding platform. It actually started a long time before before vibe coding was even a thing. But Replit's alongside Love Bull, probably one of the two main vibe coding platforms. And what's what's happened this week is it's now available within Claude, and and so actually you're not having to hand off to a different app and then work on something and then bring the code back in. It's all a seamless transition. And I think this is pertinent timing at a time at a time where Codex has launched sites, which is basically OpenAI's equivalent of vibe coding, and you can spin up sites instead of presentations, you can spin up web apps to to do anything you really want. So and to see this work through. But I wouldn't be surprised, you know, if this is a connector that works really well to hand off between Claude code and REPLA when you're building things. But I won't be surprised if Anthropic build into Claude's actual vibe coding anyway, and you know, take Claude design and vibe code it into being something itself. So I think that's probably days away, if not weeks.

SPEAKER_02 32:00

Yeah, exactly. And and this is the danger for all the kind of businesses they're building around one particular kind of uh product, is actually when the the large language models themselves go, that looks like something we can probably do now. Um and they just crack on and do it. So yeah, I think it's um yeah, it's it's so d even I've got a replica account, which is like crazy because you know I've I've never been uh a full-on coder. Um but yes, it's it's it's incredibly useful. And now to be able to kind of plug it straight into crawl is gonna be is going to be very um yeah, very helpful in terms of what we're trying to do here as well. All right, that is all we've got time for this week. Thank you very much indeed for listening in. Um we will be back next week with plenty more property and AI news. And who knows, even maybe Fable 5 will be back by then for us to play around with a little bit more. Um, but Matt, um, thank you also for being there as ever. Um have you got a busy weekend on the cards?

SPEAKER_00 32:48

My uh little middle brother's birthday. So heading over to Twickenham for tea, which would be fun to see the family. How about yourself, Matt?

SPEAKER_02 32:56

Day two, little Matt. Uh it's Father's Day tomorrow. So, yeah, we've got some um we've got some escape room action uh and uh and then some pizza. So yeah, should be uh should be good fun. Um all right. Well listen, um, thanks again for for listening, everybody. We will catch up with you again in seven days' time. Take care, Rob