Property AI Report 084 - Fable 5 Fiasco, Trump AI Terra & RIP HPI

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Overview of Property News
02:55 Impact of Renters' Rights Act on Rental Market
05:16 Sales Market Trends and Predictions
07:57 Political Implications of Andy Burnham's Arrival
10:45 Emerging Trends in Self-Employed Estate Agents
13:20 New Property Portals and Their Niche Focus
15:59 AI and Tech News: Fable 5 and Claude's Return
21:34 Regulatory Landscape for AI Models
27:21 Meta's Infrastructure Strategy and AWS Investment
31:49 Exploring ChatGPT 5.6 Naming Strategy
33:59 Introducing Google Notebook LM Army
36:21 Weekend Plans and Closing Thoughts

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hi everybody and welcome to the Property AI Report. This is your weekly digest of all things property and AI, brought to you by me, Mal McAlian, and my good friend and co-host Matt Goddard. Matt, how are you today? Wonderful, Malcolm.

SPEAKER_00 0:11

How's your uh how's your voice? It sounds a little hoarse.

SPEAKER_01 0:13

Yes, yes. I was um singing a little high out of gig last night. Um and uh yes, uh this is this is what happens, kids. And so be careful out there, right? However, we're gonna persevere um at least until it runs out. Um but uh yeah, we should probably, in order to try and get to the end of this, start our property news. All right, um, first up in our property news, there's a lot about um stats. So um we've got a shock leap in rent levels as Renters' Rights Act disrupts the market. So this is um news that um we've basically got uh rent inflation reached its highest level in nearly two years in June. Uh, this has been put down to the uh the Renters Rights Act. This is um decent stats from um from Goodlord. Um so there was low inflation for the first five uh months, and then suddenly it's it's just shot up. Um and the kind of you know anecdotal stuff that I'm hearing is that that you know obviously landlords were trying to get it in, you know, pretty damn quickly after that to get the deals done before the uh Renters' Rights Act came in, and then actually, you know, it's still a couple of months until it actually came into effect. This is um this is a focus I know for for you um and some of the stuff you do. Um what's your take?

SPEAKER_00 1:18

It's no surprise really for me. Uh the two bits really that stand out. Once I think back to the tenant fee ban and when sort of a lot of income was lost on that front, we saw rents rise as as sort of landlords started taking the brunt of a little bit of that, and you know, rents were were sort of inflated in a way to to cover some of the additional costs on that front. But also, as you sort of alluded to there, there's people getting out of the market, right? And if you if you remove properties from the market and suddenly there's l there's less uh demand, sorry, more more demand, less stock, then of course rents are gonna go up. And I think talking it through rapidly, the the third part is now that you have sort of you can't overbid, probably not the right term, on on rents, you can only accept offers to to a line of what's being marketed out. And a lot of landlords, as you say, were certain section thirteen's in the right in the run up to tenant renters' rights that are kicking in. Suddenly people are actually increasing the market price that they to get those properties back on and re-letter at the last chance they could before all this new legislation came in. So there's a number of factors that I don't think anyone should really be surprised that there's been a leap, even though the headline is shock leap in rent rent.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

Yeah, that's really true. Yeah. It's like kind of everybody sort of predicted that this was probably what was going to happen. Anyone who knows the property market for sure. Um so yeah, exactly that. Um I know um a load of people who have had you know had notice, you know, the day before, 30th of April to 28th, because that's about 24 n 24 hours notice, um, saying that uh that basically the rent was going to go up in you know X months' time. Um and I think they're just starting to feed into June's figures. And uh, you know, obviously the that the mark the the the test is is it reasonable for the market? Um obviously picking the highest um figures that they could and then almost challenging tenants to to kind of you know challenge it, you know. Actually, are you going to to try and argue the toss? And then there's the threat that actually that might mean that the tenant tenant gets kicked out. So I don't again, anecdotally, I don't think many are are kind of challenging it. I think they're just accepting it. And yeah. So it will probably settle down a little bit as we go through the the year and stuff. But yeah, it's um it's a kind of it's just one of those things about ill-thought-through sort of legislation that just keeps keeps coming into our industry. That's like it has the exact opposite effect of what the intention was, and it's like just kind of what everybody said was going to happen, just happens. So that's on the rental side. On the sales side, um, again, from the statistical viewpoint, we've got some better news, I think. Nationwide says that um uh decent amount of um price growth um kind of picking up, which kind of is is good news for the industry in terms of it's an indication of certainly busyness. Again, Matt, what are you hearing out there?

SPEAKER_00 3:55

Um sort of seeing the the bits and pieces coming through, I think it's it's it's difficult to call because I'd spend a lot of time in central London, and I think there's still still a challenge in in that area. And it's not just because I live not far from central London. I think we'll we'll get a good decent amount of feedback probably from Kufuffle conference next week where everyone comes together from from more regions, but um, it certainly does sound more positive outside of the M25. You've done a heavy tour and I think you're still touring as well, aren't you? It's what sort of anecdotes are you hearing?

SPEAKER_01 4:24

Yes, um yeah, we're about three quarters of the way through the tour um just now. And yeah, no, so so there's this sort of cautious optimism, I'd say. Um it does seem like you know, there it was a bit flat, you know, kind of for for a couple of months. Um and there's this kind of hope that you know there's there's there'll be a little bit of a bump over the next month or so just before sort of uh summer comes. Um so yeah, there's there's a lot, I'd say probably a lot more positivity than there was sort of like about you know six, eight eight weeks ago. Um and again, you know, I think as with all markets, where when it becomes sort of steady, then people work out how to actually deal with it. So I think agents are now much more kind of focusing buyers and sell or sellers, particularly on you know, the differential between what they, you know, even if they're not quite getting what they want for their property, the fact that they can then move to their next property and get that cheaper actually is a much more um successful way of sort of um messaging. So I th I think the the nuances have changed, and I think that's that that that's the sort of what what the smart agents are doing for sure. And yeah, there's kind of a this feeling um that that it is that maybe we're we're kind of we we bottomed out a bit, and actually now there's there's kind of a bit of a climb and obviously you know um heading towards the summer where there may be a bit of a lull, but then going on to to the autumn and hopefully a busy season where with any luck we might actually get a bit of stability. Now, I know we have kind of heralded this for um a long old time as a hope on this uh on this podcast, but actually, you know, if Andy Burnham's installed as expected on the 17th of July, if um you know the Iran war just kind of sort of almost blurs into the background because yeah, no more shocks and because the midterms are coming up for Trump's. Yeah, as we are heading to November, he's not gonna want to do anything that's gonna interrupt the oil price, then actually just maybe Denver might be quite good. So, yes, hopefully that those discretionary sales and all that sort of stuff will will start to come through. So yeah, I know a lot of agents are uh uh are hoping for that, preparing for that. And that's yeah, I I think um I I think there is a good chance that actually that's gonna come to pass. So yeah, fingers crossed. Also, just as a kind of aside, we mentioned the nationwide one there, it's it's just a little almost like an RIP to um to the Halifax Price Index, which has been a staple part of uh certainly our lives for yeah, pretty much the entire time I've been in the property market because it's changing its name. You know, Lloyd's is getting rid of the Halifax brand, so it's now gonna be called the Lloyd's Price Index. So, you know, moment silence, RIP, and but yes, it'll be back under a different banner um I'm sure next month. Right, we've moved on. Let's move on. Stats, let's move on to politics. So just really um a kind of whistle stomp tour through all of the all of the commentary around um Andy Burnham's impending arrival, assumed a pending arrival. And you know, any anything floated at this point is is obviously all speculative, and there is no nothing has actually come through as a hard policy from him. Everybody's kind of looking at what he's done up in Manchester and kind of trying as as mayor of Manchester and trying to work out whether it could apply nationally. But um but yes, tax is certainly something that is being discussed as being uh becoming quite hard for particularly um higher value homes, um, which seems a little bit likely, I think, because there isn't that much money around um, you know, again, without going too deep into politics. Starmer seems to have handed him something of a poison chalice with um with a defence review that needs 4.7 billion of extra cash from somewhere. Matt, again, we don't like to delve too much into the politics side, but there are some kind of housing stories associated with this. What do you think the kind of the Burnham coronation might mean for the housing market?

SPEAKER_00 7:43

Isn't there a quite an illustrious address in Downing Street going to come up for sale as part of the decamping the uh PM to to Manchester or the north? That was probably the biggest story, wasn't it? Who's who's battling for the valuation on that gap? Is that those are the ones going to cover those off some of your self-employed agents? But the no, the big biggest one probably in the the sh the headline is the the double death tax, isn't there, where there's this potential double bubble of uh the inheritance tax and the the capital gains tax coming coming through on some of those properties. What was the one that stood out for you?

SPEAKER_01 8:16

If only for the the headline, the double death tax, I think certainly was uh was one. And look, you know, this always happens, right? That that there's always some like macabre kind of description of of something that is really a relatively mundane tax. You know, basically it's a cash transfer, but it's not, it's a double death tax. Yeah, look, I I you know again, all speculation just is is disruptive. And that's what bugs me. That's why you know when the 17th of July comes, hopefully he's not gonna sit there and go, right, we're gonna have another terrible budget because of all the horrible things that we've uh we've been left, and it's gonna happen in November, because the last two years, that's exactly what happened with Rachel Reese. She did it twice and it just depressed the whole market up until then. So hopefully it's gonna be relatively straightforward. There's gonna be, you know, just kind of some some um some some low-key announcements, just things that are going to happen. Um, yeah, we just we we can just crack off because um yeah, it's it's it's been way too long since there's been a period of stability, and we we really, really need it because you know there there are many, many, many, many discretionary sales that have not happened. You know, the the the death divorce debts have always will, um as we know, but uh but yes, the discretionary ones that that really feed the market and really feed the the industry and feed optimism and confidence and so on. So, yes, um what I hope is that um yeah, that that there's nothing too dramatic and that anything is kind of set in stone early so that we don't end up with just this kind of constant chit-chat um about how awful it's going to be for homeowners. And yeah, we just get a relatively stable environment. So, yes, fingers crossed on that going forwards. Right. Other news um around sort of product side of things. Um we've got um self-employed, so so the couple of kind of smaller platforms have have come through um over the last week or so, which is really interesting. They kind of come in little flurries, I've always found. So we we've got here a self-employed broker um platform where um a new platform uses AI to match sellers with what it considers to be the best suited local self-employed estate agent. So it's it's quite niche, I think it's it's fair to say. And it's yeah, so if if uh I think the 20 EA stats say that um it is about 4% of the market is self-employed or something like that over than now. Um so this is basically helping people to surf through that 4% and find the best personal estate agent for them. Now, absolutely, you know, if people are really into their self-employed agents, if that's the market for them, then being able to probably being able to compare those individual humans is probably quite important, I'd imagine, because actually, you know, that that's can be the difference. But it does feel like it's kind of yeah, very, very, very specific. Very niche.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

Well, do you think people and everyday people that those that don't listen to our podcast um know even what a personal state agent means?

SPEAKER_01 10:54

So they're not gonna be Are you suggesting people who listen to our person to our podcast are not normal people?

SPEAKER_00 10:58

Is that because they're very very specific and you know the bleeding cutting edge of all developments, right? But if you spoke well, I can't, I was about to name my dad, but if you spoke to uh knocked on next door and said, you know, you think you're gonna sell in your house, what are you gonna do? They go, I'm gonna speak to the personal estate agent uh that's the best in my local area, um and that's what they go off looking for. I think that's a bit niche, and uh I think one of the challenges we've got at the moment is a lot of and it's great because there's a lot of entrepreneurs now able to do a lot more, but there's a lot of websites and apps and development coming out of five coding, isn't it? And it's a case of here is what's going on, this is what we want to do. And but in the same way that you know a lot of agents talk about vendors and applicants in their sort of consumer-based advertising. And if I was selling my house pro prior to working in the industry, would I have thought of myself as a vendor? It's just like I'm I'm a guy trying to sell a house, you know, you're a person trying to buy a house. And I think that's probably the only only part of this, but yeah, good luck to them as uh it's an area that is growing, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 11:54

Yeah, exactly. There's there's interestingly that there's been things like self-employed magazines that have come out or very specific self-employed kind of ratings and review sites and and you know, all sorts of yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

You're clicking through the magazine articles and your local news agents.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

Well, for self-employed agents. No, it's an online platform. It's um that I think Don Fersace's putting it out, something like that. But yeah, it's it's it's very um uh yeah, but but dedicated to that particular part of the market. And it's um yeah, it looks like it's you know, again, it's really fascinating how people cater to growing areas of the market suddenly, and then suddenly these things kind of grow up around it. So yeah, I do think it's it's a growing area of um of our industry, and I think you know, um fair play, you know, the likes of EXP, the likes of Keller Williams, uh again, the likes of Mivelli, IAD, people like that, you know, that there's a lot going on. But actually, yeah, like you say, it does your average person in the street actually differentiate between them on the basis of you are a personal agent, you are not a personal agent, versus you are you've got loads of boards up in my street, and I've I've heard of you. So yeah, I think it's um it's gonna be interesting. Like you say, you know, and and perhaps to the second uh sort of product launch this week, which is a a new property portal called Find My Move that seems to be very focused around rental properties that accept DSS. Um and again, you know, potentially important, potentially very niche, but it is to your point just a kind of clear indicator of how much more straightforward it is using AI to build these products out. But actually, you know, the the there's the classic just because you can, does that mean that you should? Um that there's a lot of energy, a lot of um focus on this sort of stuff. I think people learn so much from building businesses, and I think that's great and really important. Uh, and I think again, I think there's gonna be so many more entrepreneurs and so many more good products and services out there that are decent. But yeah, then it all comes down to to trust and and and all that sort of stuff. And like, you know, do you actually think that this is a product that's gonna be there for the long term with you? Um so yeah, no, really interesting um to kind of just uh sort of take a pulse of how the industry is is is kind of um continuing to develop. But I think that it will yeah, we'll see a raft of these things as um there's the kind of summer progresses instead of the stuff.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

Well it's an interesting one as well, by my move, isn't it? Because but by rights, housing needs is something where people shouldn't be turning them down, and you get your generation rent and your shelters all all uh shouting about, you know, you you shouldn't have landlords or agents turning down those those requirements in the same way you no longer can turn down pets, but um th these these agents just funnel up a portal for us and and they've got quite a decent, was it 435,000 listings already?

SPEAKER_01 14:21

Yeah, which sounds you know, having built a few portals in my time sounds a little bit have I mentioned that ever. Yeah, it's that that's a lot to have kind of sealed deals with and got kind of feeds directly from and all that sort of stuff. So yeah, you know, if um if that's um that's come to pass then then good on them. But uh but yeah, I I haven't heard of any, as I've gone around the country, any agents that have said we're we're uploading to this thing and if and it's great. So yeah, again, um well remains to be seen where where those kind of came from. But yes, it's gonna be interesting to see how this develops and you know, no doubt a plethora of other uh competitors that cater to very specific and perceived problems in the uh in the industry as well. Right, that is the end of our property news this week. Let us dive into our really rather exciting AI and tech news. Matt, we've been quite excited this week, haven't we? Because it's back. Fable five. Fable five. Um from Claude. Uh Fable V dropped back again. I'm gonna say Thursday night, I think. We're recording this on Saturday morning. Uh it is 9.09 on the 4th of July. Uh happy Independence Day, all of our uh millions of United States listeners. So yes, uh Fable V is back. Now, just to recap, it is um the first of the mythos class models um that has come out. Uh it was banned by the Trump administration probably three, three and a half weeks ago now. When it first landed, because as it transpired and as we were kind of almost um listening to the gossip at the time, was because Amazon basically told the Trump administration that this was too easy to jailbreak and that foreign actors could um use it to for ill means. So basically the Trump administration kind of canned it and it's been sitting on the sidelines waiting for a release date um ever since. Um a lot of kind of commentary speculation um around all of this in terms of what it um why it was first of all pulled? You know, was it actually because there's some animosity between the the kind of core players in the Trump administration and anthropic the makers of Claude? Um, or is it because actually it is really, really, really a genuine threat to to America and and and so on? Um, Matt, I know you've been playing around with it as well. So to first of all, you know, from the kind of high-level stuff, any thoughts on the reason why it's back now rather than you know a week ago, two weeks ago? And then what's it like?

SPEAKER_00 16:31

From a political point of view, it seems that Dario Amade was the one that just didn't get on well with the administration or vice versa, right? And he's been sidelined in these conversations, and one of the other founders of Anthropic, I forget his name, has been put more in the hot seat and and it seemed to work through. And I I don't actually think Anthropic expected to get the green light to to re-release it because they actually put out Sonic 5 and sort of what felt like mere moments before you started messapping me to say it was back. And then yeah, it definitely was Thursday night because I woke up Friday morning to uh you know normal, it's back, it's back, it's back, it's back. It's time for WhatsApp message. Yeah, exactly. Well, until the 7th of July, right? Exactly. So so we've we've when it was initially launched, we had 22nd of June through the 29th of June or something like that, where we're gonna have it for for part of our subscriptions and then it's gonna go on to an API cost, and it's done the same again now. So as you say it's the 4th of July, happy independence day, and the 9th so no, sorry, 7th of July is when it's gonna get pulled and you have to then start paying through the noise for it. It is an expensive model, but it's extremely capable. And um it's a question of over the next three days, what what are you gonna do with it? What are you gonna unleash on the world? I've I've already got it building me an MCP server for Microsoft because you can only attach one Microsoft account at a time to Claude and Codec. So I've got multiple Microsoft accounts for the various apps that I wear. So it's it's off doing that in the background, which might explain why the signal on this keeps coming and going. What about you? Uh, what are you kicking on with while Fable 5's part of your subscription?

SPEAKER_01 18:05

Yeah, so much. So so just to be clear about the kind of like the the tectonic plates around all this. So Sonic 5, um, up to this point we'd had Sonic 4.7, I'm gonna say, something like that, which um essentially was really capable but kind of day-to-day models. So you know, whereas you were using so Claw has three models, had three models, haiku, which was a super fast one, it had Sonic, which was the kind of really good generalist, and then had Opus for the big jobs. Um so Fable 5 came in above Opus, which Opus was on 4.8, Sonic was on about 4.7. Um, so now they released the the mid-range one, the kind of day-to-day one, as five Sonic 5. Um, so that was a big jump, really kind of good um uh good reviews, kind of people saying that it's it it is amazing, it um always tends to put out really, really amazing models. But literally, about as you say, six hours later, suddenly Fable V was re re-released and Sonic 5 got almost got lost in the kind of like, oh my god, it's back. So yeah, no, I've been using it as as as you have like basically madly because on as you say on the 7th of July, in three days' time, um you can no longer access Fable V, not for any political reasons, purely commercial reasons. So basically Anthrobic's going, look, get addicted to this stuff. It's really, really great, isn't it? Ooh, now we've got to be able to do it.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

Have a bit of a taste, get some get some interest.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

Absolutely, and then we'll put it behind this paywall, uh, and then you've got to pay through the nose to um actually have it as a separate, separate account from your normal, flawed day-to-day, um, day-to-day work um subscription, basically. So um, so yeah, uh an interesting model I'm sure um others will follow, and which might explain one of our later stories about what um uh how ChatGPT is changing the names of its models, um, as we'll see. But yes, uh so having used Fable 5, um again, it is it's phenomenal. The way that I kind of keep thinking about it is it almost it almost thinks what your next question is going to be and answers that, and then like the subsequent three questions after that. So it's already done all that thinking and all that answering before you've even started to formulate the questions after the question that you originally asked. So it's really, really, really intelligent. Anybody out there do use the next kind of two, three days to um to have a play around with it. Um it is well worth you know even pump priming your maybe getting the 85 quid um clawed subscription just to see what is possible with this thing before it goes behind its uh curtain. Um but uh but yeah, no, I've I've found it to be um exceptional. Um doing a number of different projects with it. And yes, we'll probably be one of those people that ends up uh paying through the nose for it in a separate, separate channel just because um yeah, there will be certain things, and this is true of all of it, and again, you know, for for everybody out there, we are going to start having to make decisions about which of these models we use for which particular task. You know, it's almost like we're not going to have this sort of omni model that we just kind of go, right, you decide, we're going right, this one is so expensive, and Fable 5 is so expensive. So in terms of cost per token, that's the that you're gonna be really picky about, right? I'm only gonna give that AI the really, really deep jobs, and then when it comes to the Nancy, then I'm gonna kind of shred that into various other different AIs so that they can kind of follow up on it. And but yeah, it's um it's a beast and it is well worth a um well worth a look. Hard on the heels of that, then there is a lot of talk around GPT 5.6. Okay, so um this is OpenAI, competitor to Claude, chat GPT, sorry, is the competitor to Claude. And uh 5.6 um is notionally um an incredibly powerful model as well, uh, not dissimilar to Fable 5. But uh and yes, the the government has um requested um restrictions on its rollout, as they did um with uh with Fable 5, um, so that um they're able to test it before it goes live to make sure that it doesn't allow bad actors to access systems and to reveal vulnerabilities that have not been already seen, observed using the model and fixed by the various companies, particularly American organizations. This feels map very much like a kind of um a licensing slash, you know, kind of regulatory regime um in all but name. Um what's your take?

SPEAKER_00 21:58

Yeah, absolutely. It's almost by stealth isn't it but playing out playing out as uh slightly in the public because it's so there's a a number of things and Timothy uh Tim Berners Lee who obviously created the internet or the world wide web chipped in and and said you know it's basically a de facto model licensing system that's kicked in and it's starting to to see an us the versus them type approach as well where we had seen that with mythos and glasswing under the concept to give this to some some companies to to test and check for their own vulnerabilities who you know underpin the world more but ultimately I can see this being a case you know certain institutions get the the best best models and then sort of we're limited to to less powerful intelligent things and it's almost like what what the muggles get versus the the different tiering and um there's obviously concern around that. And but in in a way as well like there's still this noise in the background about making sure that these models aren't available to non-US citizens and there's a talk of this know your client type approach and Amade in a way he's got a a little bit to answer for because he was saying you know AI is going to need a license in the same way that guns need a license in America and it's sort of heading that way. And certainly that that's why people have as you say looking at the smaller models and the ones that are readily available so you don't end up committing a lot of time. Companies like Open Router who I met on my trip last month are being utilized a lot more because they can do that bit behind the scenes and just work out what what the use case is and and route you to the right model. And then also the free and the Chinese models are are being utilized as well aren't they rather than sort of pinning your hopes on something that's like 5.6 that maybe we won't ever actually get access to in its it's true guys.

SPEAKER_01 23:41

Yeah and it's and it is really um yeah the the the kind of politics of this is is is the problem I think and and and actually we'll have a lot a long lasting problem for for American models I I reckon because you know that there is this kind of um you know if we saw Trump doing his um speech in front of Mount Rushmore yesterday last night I mean you know he's he's very much like you know anti sort of you know anybody who's not you know in his view American um and that obviously means there's a lot of people who you know that he doesn't want to have access to what he perceives to be American and AI and stuff like that. So there seems to be that that kind of very specific seam of politics kind of coming through into this particular policy which is you know actually we don't want the other to to have this. That means that people are making decisions right now in Africa, in Europe and all this sort of stuff and you we have these similar thoughts and conversations here around actually do we want to pin our you know our kind of development and you know all of our kind of um ongoing work on models that may disappear or may you know suddenly become you know dumbed down where you you you ask it the wrong question that actually flips through to a a stupider model. So yeah I anytime you get this sort of level of kind of infiltration or level of influence coming in from outside bodies for reasons that are not purely about the tech or not purely about the commercial side of things, then it does skew yeah it skews decisions. And it may mean to that actually I I would say as a result of this that American dominance in AI in the medium term is under threat because people aren't going to look at that and go, do you know what maybe I will take a risk on open AI or we'll take a risk on anthropic because at any point in time you know Pete Hagseth could fall out with um with with one of them or you know there could be you know Trump could turn around and go actually do you know what I don't like the fact that this particular model is you know is is diverse or whatever it is and that because and and and that genuinely means that um that that people will not invest using this particular uh these particular models. So yeah I think it's um it is a shame and and and and it will you know stymie creativity and and some of the best in engineers will not want to work in the American labs, they'll want to work in the the Chinese labs or elsewhere. But uh yes it it's it's going to be self-defeating I think for sure it is deconstructed.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

Sam Altman obviously gets it as well doesn't he because he's the CEO of OpenAI he's uh proposing handing over five percent of open AI to the Trump administration so they can start like basically a sovereign wealth fund and he's also encouraging Anthropic and the others to do something similar and so maybe seeing that as a bit of a sweetheart deal that ensures that there's not so much being held up in these things.

SPEAKER_01 26:11

It's an expensive kind of way of going about it but yeah you know I think practically speaking you know Altman is very uh very good at the politics side possibly better than Anthropic's um CEO Dario Amaday. But uh but yes, you know the the fact that they have to go to these these lengths to you know to to to to do bit to do business and you know again kind of um feels like they're that they have to bend the knee and you know some of the stuff that came out of anthropic and again as you pointed out so this is did and when when they were re-releasing um Fable 5 was the compromises they've had to make the fact they've had to say you know we'll of course give the administration you know access to this and that and this and that you know it felt like Abday was moved aside so that somebody else could say those words because there was never a chance that he was going to say that because he doesn't want to do it. Yes so lots uh lots still to play out I'm sure in that um and 5.6 um coming down the track once everybody's checked in and once everybody's made peace um with the uh with the administration and but yes again that should be a a a good model I have slight suspicion that is I mean the fact it's 5.6 means it's not you know GPT six which we think is is going to come out relatively soon. So they they they're not at the mythos level but um but yes um it kind of feels a little bit convenient that they can kind of make it a bit of a a bit more about the politics than actually about the tech because you know the suspicion is for them and for Google Gemini that they're not you know anthropic as shot ahead with with Fable 5 and with mythos and the other guys are kind of running to catch up and and this is a decent smokescreen for for why they're not quite there yet.

SPEAKER_00 27:36

Right um on to one of the other uh big tech businesses Meta aka Facebook and their shares have jumped because they are um looking to potentially rent out some uh infrastructure space just like um Elon Musk and um and his um ex-AI have done Matt give us some an update on this those Musk did it just before the SpaceX Io didn't he and it's sold absolute uh ton very very big amount of billions to Anthropic and and various other people so basically renting out those Google those yes places and meta have obviously built a huge amount of capacity and now able to do sort of similar thing and they those shared prices have jumped nine percent in in line with being able to offer that so it's I was trying to remember that it's almost like a nouveau hosting type approach with instead of going to your classic AWS as your etc or GCP it's that you can go to Meta and SpaceX and now why wouldn't you when SpaceX's IPO went so large if you've got that capacity and the the opportunity to to s share something which we know is a a restricted resource right it's especially in America where there's they're coming down hard on building new data centers, aren't they?

SPEAKER_01 28:48

Yeah exactly it's not popular in a in an election year to have a massive data center parked up in your nice little um nice little fields uh near your village or town. And so yeah no it's um it does seem like these these kind of neo clouds I think they're called um are the ones that you know that they're starting to get a lot of attention because some of the bigger projects are not getting off the ground so actually you know how can they utilize the spare capacity that they've got within their their own data centers. Obviously Meta itself has got a huge huge amount and yeah and it makes money and you know guess what? The their shares popped by 9% on the back of it. So yeah it's um it's obviously a very lucrative um place to go. Talking of lucrative AWS so um Amazon Web Services um has plowed um a billion into a new AI unit that's going to embed engineers um into its um into its clients um and this is off the back of a story from two, three weeks ago that we covered with the forward deployed engineers, FDEs and the other um frontier labs are basically pushing out into the various businesses to help them to understand AI basically and to be able to use it. So Matt, I know this is something that you think you um are looking at um very carefully what's your thoughts?

SPEAKER_00 29:52

No, it's it it perfectly makes sense doesn't it is something that I took away from the Sastra conference this forward deployed engineers or FDEs that basically consultants and solution architects who who come into your business and help you and sort of the 1 billion is a massive headline because obviously it's a lot of cash but um openai spent four billion uh acquiring consultancies and bringing them onto the banner of deploy co. I think Microsoft have partnered with EY to do to do something similar because it's all all well and good having this phenomenal capability but there is that overhang of of how you utilize it. You know we talk about it regularly on this and then there's some people that we we chat to and they've they've not using the subscription model versus the the paid model sorry the free model of say Claude and therefore they've not got as many connectors available. I'm doing some work with some companies where you know we're using new thing called linear and people aren't able to update linear using Claude or or codex because they're not got the paid model. If you've got a capability on that sort of level imagine if you are like a huge enterprise business and you've got the a you know a lot you want to transform but you just don't have that knowledge or or or availability to do it. That's where these four deployed engineers come in with that skill and and mindset to do it.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

So AWS jumping in it doesn't surprise me, especially given you've got like AWS bedrock and and those sort of things ready to to take on yeah 100% yeah so absolutely and I think that's going to become more of a feature of for for every in um business you know who can you go to to find this you know this this expertise to be able to help you to um to to kind of get there and obviously that's something that uh that I know you and I are both kind of focused on um because it's yeah the the kind of goal is is to help people to understand it and that's one of the purposes of this conversation but also you know to actually be able to implement it within the businesses too. Yeah no I think that's um that's very much um part of the the future of of how AI is going to be distributed um into the the kind of commercial community. All right um a few more bits to cover off um as quickly as we possibly can chat GPT and 5.6 um they've released um three different names for chat gpt 5.6 as we discussed just a bit earlier.

SPEAKER_00 31:58

Terra and Luna are the new versions they are kind of intended to match um Claude's um haiku sonnet and opus um why do you think they're doing this I think before we go into why they're doing it for those that aren't don't play with a 1% club and and don't pick up on the pattern matching whilst it's Sol Terra, it's not Terra run screaming from something it's Terra as in Earth and Lunar as in Moon. So Sun, Earth and Moon being those those levels of performance right and it's I think it comes back to the point you made earlier that if you're looking at the cost and as we move to this sort of uh not token maxing anymore the token scarcity and actually looking at how you utilize the models knowing which one you're using for which role of the sort of the process you're talking about helps you say actually I'm gonna send my day to day stuff to Terra or Earth and maybe the really rapid stuff off to Luna and you know the the big research pieces or hard coding effort over to Sol. And so I think very much that separating them ahead of probably more changes to their pricing models, right?

SPEAKER_01 33:02

Yeah. Yeah and it it all comes down to the kind of commerciality of this in the end doesn't it if you've just got Chat GPT 5.6 and you've got a bit of it it's instant and thinking wasn't it was instant and thinking and then on thinking you could kind of put different levels of thinking like low, medium and high. It's like what the hell? Just like what's the difference between thinking medium what's the difference between thinking low and instant and yeah all that sort of stuff. So yeah this is intended to give at least a kind of notion of sanity and expectation and control and structure um around uh around which model you're going to choose. But yeah like you say that the fact that they they must have spent millions on coming up with these names and sat around like you know forever in like these meetings going, oh yeah what do you think about this? Oh yeah and then they've called one of them terror. It's like I think everybody is quite afraid of AI. I don't know guys maybe maybe rethink your marketing strategy on that but uh yeah and Terra's the middle one as well which is the one that like everybody's gonna use so it's just like crazy. Right that is pretty much all we got for our AI and tech news um this week um we wanted to just drop into our tool of the week. Right this is one of our very favourites it's actually something I talk about like at every um meeting I go out to um at the moment on the tour get everybody to record the actual um conversation as well and the presentation so that they can then put it into this particular tool and then interrogate and do all that sort of stuff. And so Matt, we're focused this week on um Google Notebook LM aren't we?

SPEAKER_00 34:25

Exactly and it is we are big fans of of Google Notebook. In fact I think you probably spoke about it first way back October what two years ago at the Proxy Portal Watch conference and that was when it was doing the pod overviews the audio ones but this is brilliant and and what it sort of aligns with in my head is it's like um blink list where you can have summaries of books that you listen to and and look at and it almost becomes like doom scrolling but things you want to see. So you can create your video overviews and have them all ready so that if you are on the bus or the train or Daloo however you consume video content you can actually have things that you've pre-programmed and you're watching those video overviews of art history and the world of surrealism is the the example there. It's not something I just picked out on my side very strong for me isn't it releases and sort of overviews but the book you're actually able to consume that content. So it might be that or it might be something you're preparing for work and you're gonna be sat on the train and rather than wait for your laptop to to connect to the train Wi-Fi get them sort of ready to go and and this it comes back to we talked about Fable 5 and the fact we've only got it till Monday. You could actually be building a pipeline of of creating content for you to consume in these ways rather thinking do you know what I'm gonna uh create a video overview for when I'm I'm traveling to to uh Newport on Monday for the kerfuffle conference but actually you could have something that's building these things and and having them all ready for you using Fable 5 so it's just there you have a thought I want to investigate that just queue it up and then have have Fable 5 build that pipeline that just prepares them all for you but you don't have to sit on TikTok or Instagram consuming all that other stuff about the the big fire in Peckham as I utilised last week. It's uh something where you can actually use it as a bit of a growth mindset as well.

SPEAKER_01 36:08

Yeah exactly and I it is an interesting kind of justice between what what you get fed you know on your your feeds via you know whether the the in third generation here Facebook, Instagram or TikTok but actually this this this is yours. This is actually things that you know are going to be interesting you rather than the the the algorithm thinks is going to be interesting to you. So yes you can go and build out some really amazing stuff that actually takes you deep into things that are genuinely of interest to you you know from a a business perspective you know you can actually if there are areas you'll think about moving into you know geographies then you can kind of get like a load of those kind of built out um and kind of really start to kind of get gen up on some of the real niche detail that actually is is is amazing to people um who are selling property in that area that you know also yeah you know do do things about what's going to come down the track you know how is um what's likely going to come out of various initiatives um around the country and so on. So yeah I think it's just a really a really good update to what is already a really really powerful powerful uh piece of kit. And I think everybody should go and have a little play with it for sure. All right that is it for our property and AI news this week. Thank you everybody for listening in and thanks as ever to you Matt for being there. What are you up to for the rest of this fine fine weekend? Hopefully very little. How about yourself? You got any more gigs to go to you know what going to uh glamorous Guildfest at this weekend so Guildford has uh Guildfest and you know it's got some really really stellar names on there's got ABC and it's got uh Inspiral carpet it's got Sophie Ellis Beck stuff various others Tiffany so yeah that should be that should be amusing and if nothing else and uh yeah very much um looking forward to it should be fun all right well listen everybody else I hope you are having similarly a great uh weekend and we will catch up with you again in seven days' time all the best take care guys