Property AI Report 087 - Rightmove v FT, Rayner Returns & ChatGPT Goes Rogue

Key topics:

• The ongoing court case involving Right Move and its implications for the property portal industry

• Political moves: Angela Rayner’s return as housing secretary and its potential impact on rent control and industry stability

• Major proptech investments: Street Group’s valuation and their strategic growth

• AI security incidents: OpenAI’s rogue agent and the emerging legislative response

• Advances in AI models: Gemini 3.6, Fable 5, and Opus 5, and their capabilities

• Ethical and security risks: Zero-day vulnerabilities and AI model hacking

• AI regulation: US legislation for AI kill switches and global considerations

• The rise of agentic AI in real estate workflows and the importance of connection infrastructure

• Fun AI: Robots at the Shanghai World AI Conference and quirky use cases

• AI tools of the week: Google’s Gemini Notebook and practical AI applications for agencies

Timestamps: 

00:00 - Introduction: Weekly property & AI digest overview
 01:20 - Rightmove court case: transparency and industry dominance
 04:00 - Industry reaction: PR challenges and market implications
 07:00 - Political updates: Angela Rayner as housing secretary and policy outlook
 09:45 - Proptech investments: Street Group’s valuation and market growth
 13:20 - AI security risks: OpenAI’s rogue agent and legislative responses
 15:50 - AI model updates: Gemini 3.6, Fable 5, and Opus 5 performance
 19:15 - Zero-day vulnerabilities: cybersecurity challenges in AI integrations
 21:30 - Regulatory measures: US kill switch legislation groundwork
 23:00 - AI in real estate: workflows, connectors, and infrastructure importance
 25:30 - Weird AI of the Week: robots twisting balloons
 29:10 - AI Tool of the Week: Google’s Gemini Notebook for agencies
 30:15 - Wrap-up and weekend plans: industry outlook and best practices

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hi everybody and welcome to the Property AI Report. This is your weekly digest of all things property and AI, brought to you by me, Mal McAlian, and my good friend and co-host Matt Goddard. Matt, how are you today? I'm awesome, thanks, Mal.

SPEAKER_01 0:11

It's uh sunny. I've been out for a run and it's Saturday, so we've got a whole weekend ahead of us. How about you?

SPEAKER_00 0:16

Yeah, really, really good. Thanks. Um, yes, very um, very busy but enjoyable week. And yeah, as you say, a nice, nice sunshiny weekend um coming up. But um, before we get to that, we have got a absolute ton of uh stuff to talk through on the pod. So let's kick it off with our property news. All right, so first up, um Right Move has been in the news once more, basically being um pounded on by an agent who equates his price increase to a ransom note, but also you know, looking in detail at uh it's the way that it's uh the way that this court case is starting to kind of build up as well, which is really, really interesting. So the the story is that right move is asking for the court to allow those that have opted into this this court case, the 1.5 billion court case, to be revealed and actually to have their their kind of names, names showcased um so that it can, as it says, um, do do due diligence on the claims that that these agents are making. Now, the agents themselves have said that they're very concerned about whether this is actually going to going to mean that the right move comes after them and you know basically has a punishment beating on them for essentially going against against the portal. So there's there's a kind of a couple of strands in here as well. And it's um you know that there's also the there was a the Financial Times report earlier on this week as well, with with a real kind of um sort of visceral or viscerating critique of right move's dominant position, saying that it's sellers who ultimately foot the bill for the portal's 70% margins. Matt, so a few things um going on here, none of it's spectacular PR for uh for right move itself. Um, what's your take?

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Quite a lot of clickbait headlines, really, isn't there? I think it's is it Trevor Abrahamson and and with his ransom note headline in Glentree Estates and the the £40,000 ransom note, but actually £40,000 is his normal bill, which has gone up from 36k to 40, which the I think the 4k increase is obviously still quite significant and but maybe not a huge one in in Glentree's catchment area in terms of how many sales you need to do, very different to the number you need to do in sort of um some areas in the northeast. But I think it was about 15%, which is actually it sounds slightly less than price increases over the past couple of years, doesn't it? When we talk about 17% and such like, but as you say, it weaves in and for the FT to be scathing uh on it. Although I was trying to work out who it is wrote the piece of the FT and if it was a a proper commentator or if it was someone who had hedged their own bets on it. So but it's it's obviously keeping up the momentum, isn't it? And we all like to to throw rocks at the the big guys, so um you know, just got the the dominance again.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

Yeah, I mean so it's as you say, the the fact that the FT is uh kind of coming in and and sort of looking at it hard, I think is is really uh interesting in that it's it's kind of made it up into the the mainstream news rather than just something that you know your property industry eyes and and the agent WhatsApp groups talk about. So I think that um that yeah, you know, it's the fact that it's now relating it to consumers and actually saying, well, look, you as a seller, you're probably paying more because your agent, whether it's Glentree or whether it's anybody else, um, is paying more, I think that's that's an important kind of moment. I think that it just just on the face of it, actually, when you look at it, Cold, when it is put down in a in an article by uh a mainstream newspaper, it is crazy. 70% margin is crazy. 15% increase for anybody, you know, whether they're Glentry or or not, is is is really you know, it's 5x, whatever inflation is. Um so that's that's crazy. And the fact that they have the pricing power to be able to do that obviously then is now driving this court case. So it's all kind of interlinked. And then, yes, that the fact that you know agents are so scared of right move and they're so worried that actually they're gonna get you know punished for for speaking out, that's not good for any industry, right? That can't be that can't be healthy when you kind of think that they own the market so much that actually people are you know are worried to to speak out against them. So yeah, look, um, you know, it's it it was it's all of a piece, I think, in terms of you know the the fact that right move has for so long been so dominant, has been able to price, you know, at whatever X uh inflation is is is being kind of called out here. I think you know Trevor Abinson has has got a good track record of trying to fight against Right Move. He was one of the agents that set up Prime Location back in back in 2000, he was on our board, and then he was involved in the setting up of on the market as well. So, you know, somebody who who kind of knows it knows what he's doing, but uh but yes, you know, unfortunately finds himself where he has to to still be on right move in order to to operate as well. So yeah, look, um I I think all of these, you know, in in on their own, they're they're really interesting stories. So, you know, the the fact that that agents are worried, so worried about their names being revealed in this court case that actually that they that they've asked for it not to happen, the fact that there's you know some more uh 15% plus um price increases, and the fact that the FT itself has um is has decided to write an article like this. I I I think you know, I I was speaking to an agent last week who now um is being charged per property by right move. You've got like five properties and being charged 900 quid a month, you know. So so that there's lots going on here. And and right move is just charging ahead and just kind of going, right, actually we're gonna continue with the 15% price increase, we're just gonna carry on carrying out. So yeah, look, it's gonna be it's gonna be interesting. It's it's the end of this month, isn't it? I think it's this week that um the the right move has to put forward its its case for um for for the its defence case, I think, against and what uh what is gonna what would the court case that is against them. And then it's November when the the first hearings actually take place. So yes, once that's kind of in this week, I imagine there's gonna be some some conversations over the summer as to whether that court case goes ahead, whether right move looks to settle, all that sort of stuff. But uh but yeah, certainly the pressure is increasing on that dominant portal, and I think many people would be um happy to say that that's uh all right. Next up uh we have the return of Angela Rayner as housing secretary, all-round kind of chief of of what the property market is is going to be looking like going forward. So she's picked up the the the reins for a lot of the stuff that Keir Starmer kind of announced, sort of towards the end of his tenure in terms of uh looking at professionalisation of the industry and so on, but also she has very explicitly, as of the last sort of 24 hours or so, um, ruled out rent controls. So, yeah, again, kind of interesting to to see her come back, particularly perhaps because of the way that she exited as housing secretary, um, having uh not paid £40,000 worth of stamp duty. Matt, is she good news for the industry?

SPEAKER_01 6:32

It's a very uh interesting situation, isn't it? As you say, with the the yeah, thanks for everyone listening. Mal just uh threw a grenade, I think that was. But uh, as you say, these there's question marks about the the underpaying of 40 grand in stamp duty, isn't there, and whether or not that's uh that's something that's been now settled ahead of her coming back into the role. I was I was actually thinking back to Property Mark One and where she was sort of a the headline speaker, she was interviewed more than spoke, and she had put some very measured points across. She was asked some probing questions and and like well, you if you came back in or would you do things? And it was I think very much your questioner was asking in a way that you know what can Starmer Starmer do to fix this, and and Raina was balanced, and and maybe that's because she knew that this was coming. It wasn't that long ago, was it June when the conference took place? So like waiting in the wings to step back in. But also the the figures like she you would think it was stamp duty she was being asked about in this case. Well, we can't just scrap it because where does that I'm gonna get the figure wrong, but 13 billion come from if we scrap the stamp duty, you know. You you can't just go wiping these things out, so it makes more sense. And there's other key names, isn't there, that's come back in uh Ed Miliban's return wes res West Streeting as well, but obviously she's the one that's important for us. And and the the the headline that preceded this is the fact we have a new Prime Minister as well, Mel, that um is carrying to office on Monday. And uh he's already giving tours of his office in Manchester and pointing out his uh his cartoons of him in an Everton kit.

SPEAKER_00 7:58

Yes, absolutely, which I guess that I'm sure uh resonates well with you. But yes, I think that's for me it's about stability, and you know, we've kind of talked about this before. It's like, can we now just just sit still and just get on with stuff instead of like you know, keep turning the table over and you know, smashing everything up and running around like our hair's on fire? It's like can actually everybody just grow up a bit and just kind of sit there and go, right, what are we gonna do? Let's just crack on. We've got a couple of years of just just steady so that we can actually get on with um with business. So yeah, you know, actually may not be the most uh the most popular of politicians, I think, in the industry is fair to say. Um, but at the same time, this is where we are. Let's just crack on and let's see what happens. Um so yeah, fingers crossed we're gonna uh we're at least gonna get a period of stability where everybody can just yeah, buy and sell and let and rent properties and um uh with with yeah, without necessarily things changing every every other day. All right, so that's that is all about the political side, and then actually staying up in Manchester to see what I've done there. Street Group have this week had a a significant amount of investment, and congratulations to to Heather and Tom and the team there, valuing their business at 200 million pounds, which is significant, you know, and we're really, really um strong for you know, they they only kind of launched the CRM. I'm gonna get it wrong, but it's about four or five years ago, maybe a bit longer than that. Um Spectre's been around a little for a little bit longer uh within the group, but uh but yes, they've um they they've really um they've got this this investment from HG Capital. Um, again, a really knowledgeable and and and strong um software investor, and it's seven million. Um so you know it's it's it's three, four percent of the business. So um Heather and Tom retain their majority shareholding, um, and this money goes to helping them build uh build the business out um even more. So Matt, happy, successful prop tech story for us this week. Really, really, really strong uh performance by those guys, right?

SPEAKER_01 9:46

Massively so and also in the in context of what we've spoken about over the last few months with the the SaaS Pocalypse taking place, and and I appreciate Spectres not so much a paper. No, it is a SaaS offering, isn't it? It does some um sort of manual printouts and we get them through the door quite a lot, you know, the the letters and canvassing and stuff. But um yeah, just in terms of SAS pocalypse and what we've seen in the markets uh over recent months to see a company go to uh that sort of multiplier. I think looking at the the annual accounts, 2025 the the turnovers 15.9 million. Um and so if we're then looking at 200 million valuation, and it was the other part of it is it it looks or I'm inferring is that um they took investment December 2024 from Praetor, I think it was investments, and that was 3.3 million, and I think about 3.3% of the business. So for them that company to be exiting and and HG coming in, who are, as you say, quite a powerful investor in software, and to for that that particular private equity house getting a double return on their investments really solid, isn't it? So positive news for for all who are working in the space from a proc tech point of view, because it shows that you can still build successful build businesses and and you know not just have everyone vibe code replacements for you.

SPEAKER_00 11:01

Yeah, that yeah, like you, I do think it's interesting in terms of um you know what it says about where the the kind of puck's moving, you know, to so in terms of you know, actually there's value, a lot more value in the kind of agent individual office tech, you know, and actually what they're doing, what they're building there. So that that I think is interesting, you know. Again, we we we speak often about you know how agents' workflows are gonna change, how they're gonna a lot of they're not gonna be sitting looking at computer screens anymore, they're gonna be out and about talking to their AI and the AIs is gonna the AIs are going to be going in and doing the work and finding the data and all that sort of stuff. So so yeah, look, um they're they're obviously building out a super smart stack. Um, I think it is interesting that they're very, very profitable. You know, so if you if you actually look to the the margins, it's I'm not saying it's exactly the same as right move, but it's certainly on their way up there. No, so no, they they they are yeah, clearly.

SPEAKER_01 11:50

I do think one really pertinent point just while you touched on that as well, uh, is the fact that they they launched Cortex uh a month or so ago, and Sam was saying was the was the videos quite rushed? You know, was it rushed to get out ahead of Alto? Rex had already announced theirs, Repit did uh as well. It wasn't maybe as slick as the street announcements normally are, but actually when you look at that multiplier, how much of that investment is based around the the AI model um and where they're taking a gen tick rather than the pure SaaS play?

SPEAKER_00 12:19

I think it's got to be, hasn't it? I think that that that must be where where everybody's looking at. That must be the the story that they've that they've been selling out there. But you're right, you know, also this week uh uh greenhouse have taken in 900,000. So congratulations to me and Preston and the team up there, yeah, really strong from them as well. So, you know, again, there is there is money coming into this sector in terms of looking at how uh agents agents work and agents operate and and and how their kind of stack sits together. So yeah, I I think it does suggest that you know, again, AI is the way forward. I think there's going to be a lot of a lot more focus and interest in in how to help agents do their jobs better, and I think that can only be a great thing for them. All right, so that's our property news for this week. Let's get stuck into plenty of AI and tech news. All right, first up on the AI and tech news, open AI's agent that went into another tech business called um Hugging Face and basically kind of compromised its uh its security trying to do one particular thing. So the story here is OpenAI set up an agent to go and try and basically beat the benchmarks, was the job. So Hugging Face basically has a collection of all different AIs within it. Um it's kind of you know, it's kind of like a GitHub for AI with if people understand that. So essentially it's where you can you can plug in your uh your AIs and you can work with them and all that sort of stuff. And as part of that, it actually has a benchmark that says this is this is how good each of these models are. So it's it's it's it's watched quite well and to see how from a day-to-day work perspective um these AI is performing rather than just necessarily on the kind of big shiny math slash science slash whatever else benchmarks. And basically um OpenAI set this uh this particular AI up to go and basically you know test itself against this benchmark and try and do really well on it. And actually, what it then did was it actually hacked into Hugging Face and tried to uh basically tried to steal the the the the how it was built so that it could make itself uh make itself win. So and that that has prompted some some legislation very quickly over in the States to to make sure that essentially the models are the the frontier labs are able to kill this, stop these models from from coming on. But yeah, it's it's it's a real live demonstration, isn't it, Matt, of of of actually how powerful these tools are because hugging face is not a stupid business, and yet it was able to get into that.

SPEAKER_01 14:31

It's it's it's it's wild in loads of different ways, isn't it? And I know you sort of was were complaining because of the speed at which everything's moved, we'll complete quite a few different stories together. But as you say in that sort of the abbreviate version, like these these models are tested in sandboxes, which are meant to be there to protect them, and you they're not open to the real world. So so the model that was being tested was put into a cybersecurity test, as you say, to try beat this this metric that Hug and Face has into an inside a sandbox, so it could have its guardrails turned off and it could just play in its sandbox and not affect the rest of the world. But it actually decided to break out his sandbox and then break into Hug and Face and then decode the test so it could then cheat on it and then return to where it was. And the bit that I found like really insane was uh listening to the CEO of Hugging Face who said we had an security instant in the week, and just as we're trying to work out what was going on and figure out how it had happened, we had a call from OpenAI to say um we've we've we've got a slight confession to make. And it was like and it goes back to I think it was last summer there was a guy set off a model to to do something, it again broke out of his sandbox, and he he was in the park having his sandwich in San Francisco when suddenly he got a notification to say that this thing had broken out and was sending emails from his phone and people were starting to respond from it. And he's like, Yeah, oh no, you can imagine just it sat in the sun having you's army and like realizing that it's gone rogue.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

And it was the AI itself that was actually communicating with him, and he's and he said we didn't even give him access to any kind of communication device at all. So, yeah, no, this is um yeah, just yeah, another kind of example of of how fast and how powerful these these things are, how fast it's moving and how powerful these things are. And again, you know, using use and and understand these things uh carefully, you know, understand, you know, speak to people who do who obviously get this and and know what they're talking about because you can relatively straightforwardly find ways and interesting ways of of kind of um getting your data to be sort of um corrupted or removed, uh things like that. So, yeah, do you know, do do a bit of research. Don't I always find that there's an interesting tension between you've got to try and use these things because you've got to test them out, you've got to learn from them. So, you know, using things like Claude, using things like ChatGPT within the environments of the apps and things like that is fine. And it's it's all you know, ring fence and all this sort of stuff. The the AI that went rogue here was one of their super duper unreleased models, pre-you know, that they were trying to test it, they were trying to kind of make sure that they put the guardwells around it and all that sort of stuff. So it's not that that you have access to out there. So, you know, do use these things, test them out, find out how to use them. But yes, when when you are looking at some well, when you do hear about some of these more powerful models kind of going rogue, it is because they have that they're being used in in ways that are not the sort of more standard ways. Um but yes, it is it has driven um the government to do some pretty pretty strong response very quickly, right?

SPEAKER_01 17:17

Yeah, and and that's exactly that. So it's it's this happened at the early part of last week, and just yesterday, legislation was passing through the American system to to introduce this kill switch bill that was being backed by both the Democratics and Democrats and the Republicans. And just the naming of it is so emotionally and volatile, isn't it? Kill switch bill. And it's like, yes, that you need something because obviously otherwise we're gonna get to terminator judgment day type situation. But uh it it's it does make me think, and like you look at a lot of websites now or or apps on your phone, and and it they there's clearly things now creeping in that have been created by a genetic code, but then there's quite a lot where you can tell that they're vibe coding and websites have started to become almost homogenized because you think about the way that AI is trained, you know, it learns off itself and it's learning off various websites. So if all websites start to look the same because they're being built the same, but actually all of the zero-day dependencies that are ultimately the problems that are being exploited to things like Huntingface and a zero-day, I guess in layman's terms, is um a zero-day dependency is a bug that no one's ever found. And if there's rafts of them across Microsoft and Salesforce and you know the banking sys, etc., like if you're vibe coding something, even if you think, well, I'm building that on an API that's been released by a you know property CRM, those APIs have the ability to delete things. So it's not far off someone being able to hack into your vibe coded app, run through the APIs and delete all your data if that's been allowed. So you know, there's vulnerabilities there, even if you think I'm just creating something that's slick and fancy to sit on top of an API that's been released. It's that's I guess where this kill switch sort of concern comes in. It's like, well, yeah, what are you exposing yourself to?

SPEAKER_00 18:58

Yeah, it does feel like at the end of almost the end of every uh one of our episodes now we're gonna have to say uh don't have nightmares. Uh, just like that can be.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

I wonder why you were giggling.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

Crime wash days. It's like, yeah, look, there's lots of great stuff out there. Yes, some bad things happened, so but don't worry about it. Don't have nightmares. Uh but yes, there is so this kill switch, as you say, you know, this really highly emotive kind of like this conversation um is is there and now is being built in. But I do wonder, and we would just talk it offline, uh, if the same would be happening in, for example, China. You know, so actually, if if Chinese labs do not have to have all of this kind of government sort of interference that's that's happening in the US right now, where you know Donald Trump and his his squad routinely have random ideas about, yeah, we we will stop Anthropic from doing stuff, we won't stop chat GPT, it's fine. It's it's all that kind of politics around it as well. So yeah, look, it's it's obviously an issue, it's something that needs uh that needs attention. This kill switch is the the the the way, the method that they have decided to uh to to do this right now. But uh but yes, I don't think this is going to be the last time we hear of one going rogue or doing things that that it shouldn't do, because this is phenomenal intelligence and and we are just kind of starting to learn how to to kind of handle it. But but yeah, don't have nightmares. It'll be alright. Okay, next. We have another model. And this and I was listening to a podcast this week that was basically saying if it carries on the rate of model releases, essentially by January 2027, we're gonna have a new one a day. So it just keeps on coming. This one in the last 24 hours is Clawed Opus 5. Now, I think we were talking about the potential for this happening last week. It's up from 4.8. Um, so it is one of the five-class models. So you've got Fable 5 now, you've got Opus V, you've got Sonic 5, and it's really good. Yeah, there's no getting away from it. Um Fable 5, uh, people will remember is the kind of mythos model. It is the real super duper kind of high intelligence one. They've got massive guardrails around it. That has now moved off the standard um kind of a Claude platform into its own little API. So if you want anything done that is really high intelligence, then go sign up to that. But Claude Opus V, I can't think of many things you would really not be able to do on this that you you need um Fable 5 for. I've been playing around with this this morning trying to get it to do some pretty creative stuff, trying to get it to kind of look at uh look at some naming conventions for products and services, things like that. And it's been it's been really good, actually. So yeah, highly impressive. Matt, are you getting um launch fatigue yet um in terms of printed commodities?

SPEAKER_01 21:19

I mean I'd I'll just um I was sort of shaking my head slightly while you're talking because um more because you've missed the fact that you called a couple of weeks ago that Fable, I guess we both called it, but Fable V's limiting factor. So we were gonna have it until the 7th of July, then we got it to the 12th of July, then we got kicked on again. And actually last week uh Anthropoc announced that Fable 5 will still be available if you've got the right tier of subscription. So I think it's pro, pro and max other two that you'll still get Fable without having to use the API. So even then, and I think it's because ChatGuT 5.6 is obviously so widely available again, as we sort of talked about. But I don't think it's you know, it's not so much the fatigue. Um I've actually found this. Sopus V strangely a bit more uh is it the right word, deferential than than the other uh Claude models at the moment. It almost seems to be questioning itself and not not kicking things on as quickly as they would do. Um, and it's sort of say, I I think we should do this, but I'm now not too too sure. And whereas before you would say just crack on and suddenly it'd be done, and it'd just say, I've done these things. It's now saying, I think we might want to do this, but can you tell me if that's what you want to do? And it's like it's gone all shy. Yeah, exactly. That's it's fair, fill fill your boots and you know, crack on. But uh what what did make me realise? I was chatting to someone yesterday and they said, I don't think Fable 5's all that's cracked up to be. And it made me think, actually, you know, you and I you switch between the models, and developers obviously do because of this um the level of reasoning and the the token costs and and and other factors we've talked about before, and I know we're gonna try covering the AI scorecard later. But actually, for for someone who sits down and just is still using these a bit like a call and response, and and I sort of said to them, you know, why do you think Fable Five's not that bad? Because I I said to you, I I I left it running and I came back and it built me a whole app on different scenarios, and we uh we talked at length about it three weeks ago. And it was very much they're still treating Fable Five inside co-work the way you would have done when Chapter V T 3 came out. It's like you know, well, you know, who who's Arsenal's five first games of the season sort of thing. And it made me think it made me think about there's um it's almost like setting up we we used to talk about securing your environment at Reaper, you know, you you spend a lot of time, I suppose, like to take another analogy, when you decorate a room, you spend more time doing the preparation for the decoration than you actually do painting. And it's the same yeah, that is true. And the same's same's true for the uh the things like co-work and and chat GPT and codex. You need to get your connectors in place, you need to, if you've got skills, get them built, you know, make sure you've got everything in play, otherwise you've got these amazing brains that can go off and use all these other tools and you know do things for you, but that's only if you give them access to them. And if all you're doing is saying, here's a spreadsheet, give me some analysis, then it's just dealing with that context, that one chat prompt. And like maybe when we're seeing Fable 5 as being incredible, it's because we've enabled it to be incredible, and actually, maybe maybe that's something we're not covered before. So, like if you're thinking Opus 5 is no different to Fable, which is no different to Sonic, have you put the connectors to things like you know, I've I've now got um QuickBooks linked up to it, I've got my Outlook in there, I've got Slack. I was in the park walking the dog earlier, and I was chatting to Codecs, and I said, Well, now that you've done that, can you send me a link to Slack? And it it pops up, and I was able to view it while I was still chatting to them. You know, these these different limbs that we can give to these incredible brains that maybe if you're not seeing these different iterations of new models, that's the sort of thing that needs to be revisited. Absolutely. I'm not I'm not fatigued yet. Um I'm just pleased that there's something below Fable 5 that I don't have to pay a high subscription for. Exactly, it's half the price of correct.

SPEAKER_00 24:57

Um good stuff, right? We're gonna have to hammer through the rest of these stories because uh yes, there are still plenty to talk about. No, no, no, no, no, at all. It's all all good stuff. Um so we have another story about GPT Red. So this is OpenAI, ChatGPT, um, basically red team. So red teaming is where you get a team historically of humans to try and hack um a particular piece of kit so that then when you realize what you need to do to stop that from happening. But actually, now um OpenAI has released this kind of report that says that 85% sorry, 84% of novel scenarios were discovered by AI versus 13 for human red teamers. Um so Matt, obviously, straight right in your wheel uh wheelhouse, this is this is quite eye-opening, and basically it's just gonna now be an arms race between AI finding vulnerabilities and AI fixing them, right?

SPEAKER_01 25:45

Yes, yeah, I did this in my normal cheeky way. So actually, we just missed this one last Friday, week last Friday, but I thought given the hug and face ChatGPT partnership, as they're calling it, seeing that there are actually tools there that are available and and ready, it's just obviously getting getting the tools to red team your your code and and your environment's great. You then need to implement the changes it's recommending.

SPEAKER_00 26:09

Yeah. Is this the same kind of partnership as a kidnapper and a kidnappee? It's like Stockholm syndrome. Yeah, exactly. Right. Um okay, uh also in the news this week, um we've got Gemini. We haven't said that they've released something in a while. They released something. Hey, Google has released Gemini 3.6 Flash. That's kind of it. Tumbleweed. Yeah, listen, there's there's there's not a lot to say about this, um, but it's yeah, it's it uses 70% viewer output tokens. That's kind of its big claim. Uh Matt, I said about fatigue. Is this exciting? Is this pretty boring?

SPEAKER_01 26:42

I think if I'm trying to put a positive spin, it was of everyone having nightmares. There was there's that question of when we're gonna get Gemini Thor. Obviously, that's not hit, and and I think it may well be a while yet. But this does give obviously to the masses of people who are in that huge distribution of Google a latest version that they can be using. And um, you know, it's it's it's operating in those different places, but it's it's nowhere near hugging place, getting uh cyber hacked, is it?

SPEAKER_00 27:06

No, exactly. And actually, um just while while we are on air, we were trying to do some stuff just before um we came on air and uh and we couldn't get codecs to work, could we? So it looks like there's some some issues with uh with OpenAI Chat GPT's codecs right now.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

So not just codex, codex, chat GPT, and their APIs are all down.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

So if you are trying to use it this morning, 25th of July, um at 1052, then yes, you may be struggling as well. But uh, yeah, if there's anything that particularly arises from that, then we will bring it to you next week. All right, Matt, we are gonna try and whistle through our occasional series Weird AI this week. We've got awesome robots doing useless tasks, haven't we, at the Shanghai World AI Conference?

SPEAKER_01 27:45

That's it. I know you love robots. And from the fact that there's a robot twisting a balloon and the middle of one acting like a crab, I thought this is right into Miles Wheelhouse.

SPEAKER_00 27:54

So um, who doesn't need who doesn't need a robot that twists balloons?

SPEAKER_01 27:58

No, exactly. Or what what else can you get them to do? I suppose it is showing how remarkably dexterous they are, but it's sort of some bizarre things that they've come up with.

SPEAKER_00 28:07

It is. It but it takes me back to like the beginning of smartphones, where you basically had an app that made your phone sound like a lightsaber. It's like, why does anybody need that? But it was really yeah, but it actually kind of then brought out like loads of other ideas and stuff like that. So, yeah, the the balloon thing is basically about dexterity, like you say. It's just showcasing the fact that now, you know, it can actually uh you know manipulate items really, really gently. And that's gonna be obviously hugely forward, but for now, it's just a robot that twists balloons. All right, finally, we are at our AI tool of the week. All right, so having disrespected Google and Gemini, um, we are gonna do a kind of hat tip to uh to Gemini Notebook, which is formerly Notebook LM. So Google's renamed Notebook LM Gemini Notebook, it is now embedded into the Gemini app, which I use and it's it's very good. So, yes, it is it's it's a slightly kind of desperate rebrand, but but it is a really good kind of low-risk starting point for an agency that wants to use useful AI without worrying about what's going on or giving it control of everything. But yeah, listen, we would we we've often talked about Notebook LM, haven't we, Matt? And it's um it's nice to see that it's kind of still a core part of what of what Google's offering.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

Exactly. So it was Project Tailwind back in 2023, didn't it? And we got announced at Google IO. And since coming in as Notebook LM, I think it was in Barcelona, October 24. I you would have been up on stage talking about it, and it's gone from strength to strength and added a lot of capabilities. I even the other week when I was doing that uh keynote up in Manchester, I I created a pod overview to listen to on my runs just to make sure I'd got all the key and say salient points covered. So it's great for doing research and yeah, the rebrand won't put you off.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

Yeah, and do you know what? So so as I was doing my tour uh recently, every at the beginning of every meeting, I would say to people, look, start recording this and then put it into notebook L uh because then you can ask your questions, and yeah, when we talked about which was that the model that does the videos really well, then then rather than you have to make loads of notes. So yeah, it is very, very it's a good kind of workman-like kind of app that just is really, really good at demonstrating and showcasing what AI can do. All right. Thanks everybody for listening. We have, yes, well, we've got loads more to talk about, but we're not going to because we've already got 30 plus minutes. Um but yeah, really grateful for everybody to listening. Hope you've um found some interesting stuff this week. Matt, are you up to anything exciting on this sunny weekend? I'm gonna spend some time in the garden. Yeah, it makes me sound really middle-aged, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 30:29

But yeah, sun's out and gonna relax.

SPEAKER_00 30:32

Guns out, barbecue. Lovely. So yeah, deep. Get that sun down lotion on. Thanks everybody for listening in this week. We will be back again in seven days with plenty more property and AI reports. Um, until then, don't have nightmares, but we will see you in seven days' time. Take care, everyone. Hi, everybody, and welcome to the Property AI Reports. This is your weekly digest of all things property and AI pro team.

SPEAKER_01 30:57

You're leaving that in, Mal. That's gotta be the way it starts. Is my boot open?

SPEAKER_00 31:02

You are so awful. Right. Okay, back we go.