{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":3.37,"body":"And I think a good analogy would"},{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":3.37,"body":"be, like, what are the odds that"},{"startTime":3.76,"endTime":7.889,"body":"two independent, not related"},{"startTime":3.76,"endTime":7.889,"body":"intelligent species would evolve on"},{"startTime":7.889,"endTime":9.16,"body":"the same planet at the same time?"},{"startTime":9.463,"endTime":13.188,"body":"pretty unlikely because by the time"},{"startTime":9.463,"endTime":13.188,"body":"that first species evolves, they're"},{"startTime":13.188,"endTime":14.678,"body":"probably going to build tools"},{"startTime":14.678,"endTime":14.798,"body":"and,"},{"startTime":14.885,"endTime":16.705,"body":"take over the entire"},{"startTime":14.885,"endTime":16.705,"body":"planet like humans did"},{"startTime":16.975,"endTime":17.305,"body":"much,"},{"startTime":17.305,"endTime":21.195,"body":"much faster than a second intelligent"},{"startTime":17.305,"endTime":21.195,"body":"species, uh, could also co-evolve along"},{"startTime":21.195,"endTime":22.305,"body":"with them, assuming that they weren't,"},{"startTime":22.405,"endTime":22.635,"body":"you know,"},{"startTime":22.635,"endTime":24.185,"body":"splitting from the same genetic tree."},{"startTime":29.307,"endTime":33.417,"body":"Hello, welcome to Entropy Rising, a"},{"startTime":29.307,"endTime":33.417,"body":"podcast all about science and futurism."},{"startTime":33.757,"endTime":36.457,"body":"I'm your host Jacob, and joining"},{"startTime":33.757,"endTime":36.457,"body":"me, of course, is the ever"},{"startTime":36.457,"endTime":38.557,"body":"so wonderful co-host Lucas."},{"startTime":38.637,"endTime":39.557,"body":"Thank you so much, Jake."},{"startTime":39.627,"endTime":39.927,"body":"Yeah,"},{"startTime":39.957,"endTime":40.437,"body":"I love,"},{"startTime":40.467,"endTime":41.757,"body":"I love that you think I'm wonderful."},{"startTime":41.817,"endTime":42.217,"body":"Always."},{"startTime":42.217,"endTime":42.797,"body":"always."},{"startTime":43.147,"endTime":48.317,"body":"So for today's episode, we're diving"},{"startTime":43.147,"endTime":48.317,"body":"into, uh, quite a fascinating theory."},{"startTime":48.317,"endTime":51.207,"body":"So this is one of the"},{"startTime":48.317,"endTime":51.207,"body":"potential solutions to"},{"startTime":51.207,"endTime":52.233,"body":"the Fermi paradox,"},{"startTime":52.587,"endTime":56.377,"body":"the Fermi paradox of course being the"},{"startTime":52.587,"endTime":56.377,"body":"question of, given how big and old the"},{"startTime":56.377,"endTime":57.994,"body":"universe is, where is everyone else?"},{"startTime":57.994,"endTime":58.844,"body":"Why are we here alone?"},{"startTime":59.087,"endTime":63.587,"body":"So this theory or solution for the Fermi"},{"startTime":59.087,"endTime":63.587,"body":"paradox is known as greedy aliens, and"},{"startTime":63.587,"endTime":69.397,"body":"it effectively tries to explain that"},{"startTime":63.587,"endTime":69.397,"body":"we're early in the uni- It effectively"},{"startTime":69.397,"endTime":73.167,"body":"tries to argue that we are alone in"},{"startTime":69.397,"endTime":73.167,"body":"the universe because we are one of"},{"startTime":73.167,"endTime":75.047,"body":"the first civilizations to evolve."},{"startTime":75.367,"endTime":78.607,"body":"But it takes it a step further than"},{"startTime":75.367,"endTime":78.607,"body":"that and says that not only are we"},{"startTime":78.607,"endTime":82.517,"body":"the first civilization to evolve,"},{"startTime":78.607,"endTime":82.517,"body":"but we must be the first civilization"},{"startTime":82.517,"endTime":84.787,"body":"to evolve, or we wouldn't exist."},{"startTime":84.787,"endTime":87.357,"body":"So we're gonna dive into this, and I"},{"startTime":84.787,"endTime":87.357,"body":"think it's gonna be a fascinating episode."},{"startTime":87.651,"endTime":88.551,"body":"I think so as well."},{"startTime":88.637,"endTime":93.256,"body":"that big distinction of giving us an"},{"startTime":88.637,"endTime":93.256,"body":"idea that this has to be the reason"},{"startTime":93.256,"endTime":97.276,"body":"why we are one of the first is what"},{"startTime":93.256,"endTime":97.276,"body":"separates it from some other theories"},{"startTime":97.276,"endTime":98.456,"body":"that also put us in the first."},{"startTime":98.456,"endTime":101.216,"body":"So I think it's gonna be really"},{"startTime":98.456,"endTime":101.216,"body":"cool to dive in and, um, think a"},{"startTime":101.216,"endTime":102.986,"body":"little bit deeper into that concept."},{"startTime":103.056,"endTime":103.236,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":103.236,"endTime":105.806,"body":"And I think that is something that's"},{"startTime":103.236,"endTime":105.806,"body":"interesting about this one because there"},{"startTime":105.806,"endTime":108.866,"body":"is always the possibility that we're"},{"startTime":105.806,"endTime":108.866,"body":"the first because of random chance."},{"startTime":108.866,"endTime":109.926,"body":"There's always random chance"},{"startTime":109.926,"endTime":110.066,"body":"and,"},{"startTime":110.476,"endTime":111.996,"body":"and I've heard that argument before too."},{"startTime":112.18,"endTime":115.941,"body":"I am particularly drawn to this one"},{"startTime":112.18,"endTime":115.941,"body":"because it's not just we're the first"},{"startTime":115.941,"endTime":118.701,"body":"because we happen to be the first,"},{"startTime":115.941,"endTime":118.701,"body":"which of course is perfectly possible."},{"startTime":118.791,"endTime":118.981,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":119.021,"endTime":121.161,"body":"Uh, but it does go and"},{"startTime":119.021,"endTime":121.161,"body":"take it a step further."},{"startTime":121.451,"endTime":124.291,"body":"So Lucas, would you like to jump"},{"startTime":121.451,"endTime":124.291,"body":"in and explain the greedy aliens"},{"startTime":124.291,"endTime":125.211,"body":"theory, or would you like me to?"},{"startTime":125.391,"endTime":125.501,"body":"No,"},{"startTime":125.501,"endTime":125.661,"body":"no."},{"startTime":125.661,"endTime":126.631,"body":"Yeah, I can jump in."},{"startTime":126.631,"endTime":130.461,"body":"So the way that the greedy aliens"},{"startTime":126.631,"endTime":130.461,"body":"essentially works is that it is under"},{"startTime":130.461,"endTime":134.471,"body":"the assumption that life, gets to a"},{"startTime":130.461,"endTime":134.471,"body":"point to where they can go out into the"},{"startTime":134.471,"endTime":139.811,"body":"stars will want to constantly expand,"},{"startTime":134.471,"endTime":139.811,"body":"take over the resources and use them to,"},{"startTime":139.831,"endTime":141.394,"body":"build into their civilization."},{"startTime":141.774,"endTime":146.194,"body":"And because of this, if that was true"},{"startTime":141.774,"endTime":146.194,"body":"and life was able to evolve over the"},{"startTime":146.194,"endTime":150.478,"body":"time that ours did, we would have already"},{"startTime":146.194,"endTime":150.478,"body":"taken over all of the planets that"},{"startTime":150.478,"endTime":152.581,"body":"could support life that were lesser, and"},{"startTime":152.581,"endTime":152.831,"body":"you know,"},{"startTime":152.831,"endTime":156.181,"body":"expand that and make it so that those"},{"startTime":152.831,"endTime":156.181,"body":"resources couldn't be used and no"},{"startTime":156.181,"endTime":157.621,"body":"other life would have formed anyways."},{"startTime":157.681,"endTime":158.431,"body":"Therefore, if"},{"startTime":158.431,"endTime":158.781,"body":"we"},{"startTime":158.781,"endTime":164.276,"body":"do exist- And greedy aliens is a"},{"startTime":158.781,"endTime":164.276,"body":"probable solution to the Fermi paradox,"},{"startTime":164.276,"endTime":168.376,"body":"then the only reason why we do exist"},{"startTime":164.276,"endTime":168.376,"body":"is because we are one of the first"},{"startTime":168.646,"endTime":169.366,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"startTime":169.366,"endTime":172.736,"body":"I think that's a key distinction for"},{"startTime":169.366,"endTime":172.736,"body":"this theory is it basically argues that"},{"startTime":173.146,"endTime":178.666,"body":"anyone who does exist necessarily must"},{"startTime":173.146,"endTime":178.666,"body":"exist from a civilization that was among"},{"startTime":178.666,"endTime":181.116,"body":"the first to exist in the universe."},{"startTime":181.546,"endTime":185.066,"body":"And the reason being is like what you"},{"startTime":181.546,"endTime":185.066,"body":"said, is because if you assume every"},{"startTime":185.066,"endTime":188.736,"body":"civilization is going to be expansionist,"},{"startTime":185.066,"endTime":188.736,"body":"uh, and it doesn't have to be literally"},{"startTime":188.736,"endTime":190.666,"body":"every civilization, but just most."},{"startTime":191.006,"endTime":191.136,"body":"If"},{"startTime":191.136,"endTime":195.306,"body":"you assume that there's a tendency for"},{"startTime":191.136,"endTime":195.306,"body":"civilizations to be expansionist, then"},{"startTime":195.306,"endTime":199.656,"body":"once you get further into the history of"},{"startTime":195.306,"endTime":199.656,"body":"the universe, then all of the possible"},{"startTime":199.656,"endTime":203.556,"body":"new areas for life to evolve will"},{"startTime":199.656,"endTime":203.556,"body":"already have been used up by these,"},{"startTime":203.556,"endTime":204.516,"body":"quote-unquote, \"greedy"},{"startTime":204.516,"endTime":205.006,"body":"aliens\"."},{"startTime":205.006,"endTime":205.056,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":205.056,"endTime":205.366,"body":"And"},{"startTime":205.429,"endTime":206.599,"body":"I do wanna add a quick note here."},{"startTime":206.599,"endTime":207.946,"body":"It's called greedy aliens."},{"startTime":208.349,"endTime":209.089,"body":"It doesn't actually,"},{"startTime":209.089,"endTime":209.249,"body":"like,"},{"startTime":209.266,"endTime":211.986,"body":"mean that they're horrible,"},{"startTime":209.266,"endTime":211.986,"body":"greedy, warmongering aliens, right?"},{"startTime":212.133,"endTime":214.909,"body":"In this sense, what it means by"},{"startTime":212.133,"endTime":214.909,"body":"greedy aliens is they're expansionist"},{"startTime":214.909,"endTime":216.049,"body":"and they use the resources."},{"startTime":216.329,"endTime":219.369,"body":"They don't just sit on their planet"},{"startTime":216.329,"endTime":219.369,"body":"and let the universe happen by them."},{"startTime":219.369,"endTime":222.069,"body":"They actually go out and"},{"startTime":219.369,"endTime":222.069,"body":"expand their borders."},{"startTime":222.119,"endTime":224.269,"body":"And when we say conquer or use, uh,"},{"startTime":224.269,"endTime":224.719,"body":"you know,"},{"startTime":224.719,"endTime":227.699,"body":"the theory posits that they would"},{"startTime":224.719,"endTime":227.699,"body":"expand until they ran into another"},{"startTime":227.699,"endTime":230.589,"body":"species where they could cooperate"},{"startTime":227.699,"endTime":230.589,"body":"and be very friendly, nice neighbors."},{"startTime":230.889,"endTime":233.779,"body":"It's just until they bump into another"},{"startTime":230.889,"endTime":233.779,"body":"civilization, they're gonna continue"},{"startTime":233.779,"endTime":237.539,"body":"to expand, uh, across the, what"},{"startTime":233.779,"endTime":237.539,"body":"they discover to be dead universe."},{"startTime":237.779,"endTime":237.959,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":238.136,"endTime":238.343,"body":"it,"},{"startTime":238.359,"endTime":240.409,"body":"goes by another name, I believe,"},{"startTime":238.359,"endTime":240.409,"body":"is grabby aliens, right?"},{"startTime":240.409,"endTime":241.389,"body":"Yeah, grabby aliens."},{"startTime":241.389,"endTime":241.589,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":241.619,"endTime":242.099,"body":"So,"},{"startTime":242.129,"endTime":242.579,"body":"um,"},{"startTime":242.639,"endTime":242.789,"body":"you know,"},{"startTime":242.789,"endTime":244.359,"body":"I feel like that better explains it."},{"startTime":244.399,"endTime":244.719,"body":"And"},{"startTime":244.773,"endTime":248.233,"body":"it's a good theory to think about"},{"startTime":244.773,"endTime":248.233,"body":"because when you think of life"},{"startTime":248.233,"endTime":250.703,"body":"itself, it is also grabby, right?"},{"startTime":250.78,"endTime":255.31,"body":"life expands naturally,  and especially"},{"startTime":250.78,"endTime":255.31,"body":"as civilizations get more advanced."},{"startTime":255.31,"endTime":255.49,"body":"Like,"},{"startTime":255.53,"endTime":260.31,"body":"we went from small pockets"},{"startTime":255.53,"endTime":260.31,"body":"of civilizations to expanding"},{"startTime":260.31,"endTime":261.65,"body":"across the entire planet."},{"startTime":262.12,"endTime":263.26,"body":"So it would only,"},{"startTime":263.39,"endTime":263.63,"body":"you know,"},{"startTime":263.63,"endTime":266.55,"body":"make sense that we would continue"},{"startTime":263.63,"endTime":266.55,"body":"to do that as far as we could."},{"startTime":266.79,"endTime":269.95,"body":"And that's actually a really important"},{"startTime":266.79,"endTime":269.95,"body":"thing that this theory also points"},{"startTime":269.95,"endTime":273.74,"body":"out, is that, yes, the universe"},{"startTime":269.95,"endTime":273.74,"body":"is very large, and it takes a long"},{"startTime":273.74,"endTime":275.26,"body":"time to expand across the universe."},{"startTime":275.62,"endTime":279.33,"body":"However, this theory points out and it"},{"startTime":275.62,"endTime":279.33,"body":"argues, I think rather successfully,"},{"startTime":279.69,"endTime":285.47,"body":"that the time it would take for a upstart"},{"startTime":279.69,"endTime":285.47,"body":"civilization to actually expand across"},{"startTime":285.47,"endTime":285.77,"body":"their"},{"startTime":285.77,"endTime":287.4,"body":"local area of space is"},{"startTime":287.4,"endTime":287.97,"body":"much,"},{"startTime":288.13,"endTime":291.12,"body":"much faster than the time it"},{"startTime":288.13,"endTime":291.12,"body":"would take for another intelligent"},{"startTime":291.12,"endTime":292.62,"body":"species to evolve from nothing."},{"startTime":293.07,"endTime":295.26,"body":"Uh, so when we think about it, we've"},{"startTime":293.07,"endTime":295.26,"body":"talked about how you could potentially"},{"startTime":295.26,"endTime":299.64,"body":"colonize the entire galaxy with something"},{"startTime":295.26,"endTime":299.64,"body":"like von Neumann probes, uh, even not"},{"startTime":299.64,"endTime":303.72,"body":"von Neumann probes, even just biological"},{"startTime":299.64,"endTime":303.72,"body":"von Neumann probes, AKA, uh, us."},{"startTime":304.21,"endTime":307.17,"body":"Uh, we've talked about how you can do"},{"startTime":304.21,"endTime":307.17,"body":"that in, uh, maybe half a million years."},{"startTime":307.306,"endTime":307.806,"body":"Uh, moving at,"},{"startTime":307.806,"endTime":307.996,"body":"like"},{"startTime":307.996,"endTime":308.946,"body":"10% the speed of light."},{"startTime":309.336,"endTime":311.556,"body":"Half a million to about"},{"startTime":309.336,"endTime":311.556,"body":"2.5 million, depending on"},{"startTime":311.556,"endTime":311.926,"body":"how,"},{"startTime":312.416,"endTime":315.106,"body":"how fast you can move,"},{"startTime":312.416,"endTime":315.106,"body":"whether it's 5% up to,"},{"startTime":315.106,"endTime":315.246,"body":"like"},{"startTime":315.246,"endTime":316.326,"body":"50% the speed of light."},{"startTime":316.806,"endTime":321.516,"body":"But in terms of evolutionary"},{"startTime":316.806,"endTime":321.516,"body":"timescales, that's pretty fast."},{"startTime":321.856,"endTime":325.226,"body":"And I think a good analogy would"},{"startTime":321.856,"endTime":325.226,"body":"be, like, what are the odds that"},{"startTime":325.616,"endTime":329.746,"body":"two independent, not related"},{"startTime":325.616,"endTime":329.746,"body":"intelligent species would evolve on"},{"startTime":329.746,"endTime":331.016,"body":"the same planet at the same time?"},{"startTime":331.319,"endTime":335.044,"body":"pretty unlikely because by the time"},{"startTime":331.319,"endTime":335.044,"body":"that first species evolves, they're"},{"startTime":335.044,"endTime":336.534,"body":"probably going to build tools"},{"startTime":336.534,"endTime":336.654,"body":"and,"},{"startTime":336.742,"endTime":338.561,"body":"take over the entire"},{"startTime":336.742,"endTime":338.561,"body":"planet like humans did"},{"startTime":338.831,"endTime":339.161,"body":"much,"},{"startTime":339.161,"endTime":343.051,"body":"much faster than a second intelligent"},{"startTime":339.161,"endTime":343.051,"body":"species, uh, could also co-evolve along"},{"startTime":343.051,"endTime":344.161,"body":"with them, assuming that they weren't,"},{"startTime":344.261,"endTime":344.491,"body":"you know,"},{"startTime":344.491,"endTime":346.041,"body":"splitting from the same genetic tree."},{"startTime":346.201,"endTime":350.211,"body":"That's obviously a different story and"},{"startTime":346.201,"endTime":350.211,"body":"doesn't apply to universe wide, uh, life."},{"startTime":350.411,"endTime":350.731,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":350.977,"endTime":354.23,"body":"it is a solid concept because"},{"startTime":350.977,"endTime":354.23,"body":"of those reasons that, that we"},{"startTime":354.23,"endTime":354.64,"body":"kind of"},{"startTime":354.64,"endTime":357.73,"body":"see examples of it happening on"},{"startTime":354.64,"endTime":357.73,"body":"a smaller scale being our planet."},{"startTime":357.929,"endTime":361.319,"body":"it definitely is something that's"},{"startTime":357.929,"endTime":361.319,"body":"interesting to think about and that"},{"startTime":361.319,"endTime":361.359,"body":"I,"},{"startTime":361.359,"endTime":362.469,"body":"I feel could be"},{"startTime":362.689,"endTime":362.899,"body":"very,"},{"startTime":362.899,"endTime":363.729,"body":"very possible."},{"startTime":364.249,"endTime":365.099,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"startTime":365.099,"endTime":368.114,"body":"So another thing to dive into with"},{"startTime":365.099,"endTime":368.114,"body":"this, of course, and it links a"},{"startTime":368.114,"endTime":369.765,"body":"lot with the anthropic principle."},{"startTime":369.984,"endTime":373.874,"body":"So the anthropic principle is"},{"startTime":369.984,"endTime":373.874,"body":"effectively a type of bias you always"},{"startTime":373.874,"endTime":377.005,"body":"have to keep in mind, or it's sometimes"},{"startTime":373.874,"endTime":377.005,"body":"called the observer effect, which"},{"startTime":377.005,"endTime":382.256,"body":"is that for an observer to exist to"},{"startTime":377.005,"endTime":382.256,"body":"question their existence, uh, and"},{"startTime":382.256,"endTime":386.957,"body":"reality around them, then they must,"},{"startTime":382.256,"endTime":386.957,"body":"of course, exist an environment that"},{"startTime":386.957,"endTime":390.997,"body":"supports their form of consciousness,"},{"startTime":386.957,"endTime":390.997,"body":"of life, in whichever way that is."},{"startTime":391.437,"endTime":395.559,"body":"And the way that I often see this"},{"startTime":391.437,"endTime":395.559,"body":"explained is sometimes people will look"},{"startTime":395.559,"endTime":399.909,"body":"around the Earth and say, \"Wow, what"},{"startTime":395.559,"endTime":399.909,"body":"are the odds that this whole ecosystem"},{"startTime":399.909,"endTime":402.129,"body":"works so flawlessly, so fluidly?"},{"startTime":402.489,"endTime":404.379,"body":"There's the right amount"},{"startTime":402.489,"endTime":404.379,"body":"of oxygen for human life."},{"startTime":404.769,"endTime":406.619,"body":"There's so many edible"},{"startTime":404.769,"endTime":406.619,"body":"foods for human life."},{"startTime":406.939,"endTime":409.33,"body":"Uh, all these perfect"},{"startTime":406.939,"endTime":409.33,"body":"conditions exist for human life."},{"startTime":409.338,"endTime":411.868,"body":"W- what are the odds of that?\""},{"startTime":409.338,"endTime":411.868,"body":"And some people will use that"},{"startTime":411.868,"endTime":412.058,"body":"to,"},{"startTime":412.058,"endTime":414.888,"body":"to make an argument for the"},{"startTime":412.058,"endTime":414.888,"body":"creator, uh, or what have you."},{"startTime":415.298,"endTime":418.658,"body":"But this is where the anthropic principle"},{"startTime":415.298,"endTime":418.658,"body":"comes in because it also points out"},{"startTime":418.658,"endTime":424.328,"body":"that the very fact that you exist to ask"},{"startTime":418.658,"endTime":424.328,"body":"that question means that of course, the"},{"startTime":424.328,"endTime":428.578,"body":"environment you find yourself existing"},{"startTime":424.328,"endTime":428.578,"body":"in is going to support that, right?"},{"startTime":428.578,"endTime":433.538,"body":"There could be hundreds of billions"},{"startTime":428.578,"endTime":433.538,"body":"of barren planets, but you're only"},{"startTime":433.538,"endTime":434.978,"body":"ever gonna find yourself existing on"},{"startTime":434.978,"endTime":438.535,"body":"the, one planet out of that hundred of"},{"startTime":434.978,"endTime":438.535,"body":"billions that could support your life."},{"startTime":439.115,"endTime":442.065,"body":"And the grabby aliens theory"},{"startTime":439.115,"endTime":442.065,"body":"makes that same argument for"},{"startTime":442.065,"endTime":443.545,"body":"us being first in the universe."},{"startTime":443.675,"endTime":443.925,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":443.925,"endTime":447.155,"body":"Because it argues if you're not one"},{"startTime":443.925,"endTime":447.155,"body":"of the first species to exist, then"},{"startTime":447.155,"endTime":452.155,"body":"you never get to exist because all"},{"startTime":447.155,"endTime":452.155,"body":"of the available, basically land, all"},{"startTime":452.155,"endTime":455.555,"body":"the available real estate will have"},{"startTime":452.155,"endTime":455.555,"body":"been consumed by these grabby aliens."},{"startTime":455.915,"endTime":457.548,"body":"So the odds of you being"},{"startTime":457.548,"endTime":457.708,"body":"a,"},{"startTime":457.708,"endTime":460.815,"body":"a new upstart civilization,"},{"startTime":457.708,"endTime":460.815,"body":"young into your evolution,"},{"startTime":460.815,"endTime":461.015,"body":"right,"},{"startTime":461.015,"endTime":462.235,"body":"like we are, we're only,"},{"startTime":462.565,"endTime":464.475,"body":"Humans have been smart"},{"startTime":462.565,"endTime":464.475,"body":"for maybe 10,000 years."},{"startTime":464.475,"endTime":464.805,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":464.805,"endTime":465.165,"body":"Pretty,"},{"startTime":465.235,"endTime":468.175,"body":"pretty early on, on terms"},{"startTime":465.235,"endTime":468.175,"body":"of, uh, evolutionary scales."},{"startTime":468.705,"endTime":473.435,"body":"So the... If you find yourself being"},{"startTime":468.705,"endTime":473.435,"body":"early in your own history of your species,"},{"startTime":473.435,"endTime":477.865,"body":"then you probably exist at the beginning,"},{"startTime":473.435,"endTime":477.865,"body":"earlier stages of the universe before any"},{"startTime":477.865,"endTime":479.515,"body":"other life has had a chance to expand."},{"startTime":479.775,"endTime":479.995,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":480.235,"endTime":480.675,"body":"And"},{"startTime":480.755,"endTime":481.485,"body":"I mean, that's,"},{"startTime":481.485,"endTime":484.615,"body":"that's a really cool concept to"},{"startTime":481.485,"endTime":484.615,"body":"think about because it lets you"},{"startTime":484.615,"endTime":485.255,"body":"kind of"},{"startTime":485.895,"endTime":490.385,"body":"really settle into that thought that, wow,"},{"startTime":485.895,"endTime":490.385,"body":"we may be one of the first civilizations"},{"startTime":490.385,"endTime":495.648,"body":"because we are on this planet that"},{"startTime":490.385,"endTime":495.648,"body":"offers these resources for life that"},{"startTime":495.648,"endTime":499.395,"body":"are so plentiful, that if there truly"},{"startTime":495.648,"endTime":499.395,"body":"were those grabby aliens, that they..."},{"startTime":499.445,"endTime":500.735,"body":"this would be prime real estate,"},{"startTime":501.125,"endTime":501.395,"body":"you know,"},{"startTime":501.395,"endTime":504.508,"body":"for them to wanna move to, taking"},{"startTime":501.395,"endTime":504.508,"body":"into account, thought that they"},{"startTime":504.508,"endTime":507.888,"body":"are similar to us in structure"},{"startTime":504.508,"endTime":507.888,"body":"and the way that they survive."},{"startTime":508.011,"endTime":509.071,"body":"Yeah, no, absolutely."},{"startTime":509.071,"endTime":509.131,"body":"And,"},{"startTime":509.131,"endTime":512.121,"body":"and just the fact that we're"},{"startTime":509.131,"endTime":512.121,"body":"so early into our own existence"},{"startTime":512.121,"endTime":512.401,"body":"kind of"},{"startTime":512.401,"endTime":513.461,"body":"also shows that too."},{"startTime":513.841,"endTime":516.831,"body":"It'd be one thing if we were hundreds"},{"startTime":513.841,"endTime":516.831,"body":"of billions of years into humanity, and"},{"startTime":516.831,"endTime":520.691,"body":"we still didn't find any aliens, then"},{"startTime":516.831,"endTime":520.691,"body":"we could probably posit that it's not a"},{"startTime":520.691,"endTime":524.371,"body":"case of us being early, but maybe a case"},{"startTime":520.691,"endTime":524.371,"body":"of, uh, life just being extremely rare."},{"startTime":524.431,"endTime":529.141,"body":"But we are very early into humanity as"},{"startTime":524.431,"endTime":529.141,"body":"it is, and so it's very likely that this"},{"startTime":529.141,"endTime":532.331,"body":"is just, for whatever reason, the way"},{"startTime":529.141,"endTime":532.331,"body":"the universe works out, we are now in"},{"startTime":532.331,"endTime":536.871,"body":"the life-bearing age for our universe,"},{"startTime":532.331,"endTime":536.871,"body":"and we're in the earlier stages of that."},{"startTime":537.231,"endTime":537.351,"body":"And"},{"startTime":537.351,"endTime":538.011,"body":"so, you know,"},{"startTime":538.091,"endTime":539.251,"body":"it's kinda fun to think about, right?"},{"startTime":539.251,"endTime":541.241,"body":"This theory says that"},{"startTime":539.251,"endTime":541.241,"body":"humanity might be first"},{"startTime":541.241,"endTime":541.471,"body":"and,"},{"startTime":541.471,"endTime":544.581,"body":"and if this theory's true, we"},{"startTime":541.471,"endTime":544.581,"body":"might go on to be one of the,"},{"startTime":544.581,"endTime":545.001,"body":"you know,"},{"startTime":545.001,"endTime":548.551,"body":"huge stellar empires, uh, assuming that"},{"startTime":545.001,"endTime":548.551,"body":"this theory is true and it's not just"},{"startTime":548.551,"endTime":551.461,"body":"the case that life is extremely rare,"},{"startTime":548.551,"endTime":551.461,"body":"which both can kinda go hand in hand."},{"startTime":551.881,"endTime":552.141,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":552.375,"endTime":552.655,"body":"So"},{"startTime":552.655,"endTime":553.015,"body":"with,"},{"startTime":553.015,"endTime":555.985,"body":"with that being said, there are a few"},{"startTime":553.015,"endTime":555.985,"body":"different ways that this could play out."},{"startTime":555.985,"endTime":559.325,"body":"What are some of the assumptions that"},{"startTime":555.985,"endTime":559.325,"body":"would be needed for this theory to exist?"},{"startTime":559.555,"endTime":561.085,"body":"Yeah, no, that's completely fair."},{"startTime":561.145,"endTime":565.785,"body":"So there are obviously with any Fermi"},{"startTime":561.145,"endTime":565.785,"body":"paradox solution, you need to look"},{"startTime":565.785,"endTime":568.535,"body":"at the base assumptions that this"},{"startTime":565.785,"endTime":568.535,"body":"theory makes and see if that actually"},{"startTime":568.535,"endTime":571.365,"body":"works  for a Fermi paradox solution."},{"startTime":571.685,"endTime":574.285,"body":"And I've kinda given this overlay"},{"startTime":571.685,"endTime":574.285,"body":"a couple of times when we've talked"},{"startTime":574.285,"endTime":575.635,"body":"about Fermi paradox solutions."},{"startTime":576.055,"endTime":580.695,"body":"Uh, but some of those assumptions rely"},{"startTime":576.055,"endTime":580.695,"body":"on, for one, is this a universalizable"},{"startTime":581.015,"endTime":582.125,"body":"assumption that you can make?"},{"startTime":582.475,"endTime":587.315,"body":"And one of the universalizable assumptions"},{"startTime":582.475,"endTime":587.315,"body":"that the grabby aliens theory needs"},{"startTime":587.745,"endTime":590.125,"body":"is that life needs to be expansionist."},{"startTime":590.485,"endTime":594.465,"body":"Or what we should ask is that, is"},{"startTime":590.485,"endTime":594.465,"body":"it the case that all life should be"},{"startTime":594.465,"endTime":597.045,"body":"expansionist for this theory to work, and"},{"startTime":594.465,"endTime":597.045,"body":"if it's not, does that break the theory?"},{"startTime":597.495,"endTime":600.395,"body":"And so for that assumption,"},{"startTime":597.495,"endTime":600.395,"body":"some people may disagree, uh,"},{"startTime":600.395,"endTime":601.745,"body":"I actually think that's fine."},{"startTime":601.775,"endTime":604.675,"body":"I think that's a valid assumption that"},{"startTime":601.775,"endTime":604.675,"body":"this theory can make for two reasons."},{"startTime":605.008,"endTime":609.558,"body":"Reason A is that at least on Earth"},{"startTime":605.008,"endTime":609.558,"body":"and how we understand evolution"},{"startTime":609.558,"endTime":613.229,"body":"to work, it seems like all life"},{"startTime":609.558,"endTime":613.229,"body":"probably will be expansionist."},{"startTime":613.229,"endTime":618.729,"body":"It's just life is opportunistic,"},{"startTime":613.229,"endTime":618.729,"body":"and by definition, it oftentimes"},{"startTime":618.889,"endTime":622.359,"body":"tries to expand and find new"},{"startTime":618.889,"endTime":622.359,"body":"niches to occupy and adapt to."},{"startTime":622.659,"endTime":623.299,"body":"And I don't think"},{"startTime":623.299,"endTime":623.419,"body":"that"},{"startTime":623.419,"endTime":624.869,"body":"that's gonna change on different planets."},{"startTime":624.869,"endTime":628.379,"body":"I really do think that's gonna be"},{"startTime":624.869,"endTime":628.379,"body":"one of the underlying cases for"},{"startTime":628.379,"endTime":631.069,"body":"life anywhere, uh, in the universe."},{"startTime":631.139,"endTime":631.269,"body":"And"},{"startTime":631.269,"endTime":631.309,"body":"I,"},{"startTime":631.309,"endTime":634.449,"body":"I feel like we can call that a"},{"startTime":631.309,"endTime":634.449,"body":"universalizable in my opinion."},{"startTime":634.449,"endTime":634.709,"body":"I don't,"},{"startTime":634.709,"endTime":636.209,"body":"I don't know what you"},{"startTime":634.709,"endTime":636.209,"body":"think about that, Lucas."},{"startTime":636.289,"endTime":636.429,"body":"No,"},{"startTime":636.429,"endTime":636.779,"body":"I mean,"},{"startTime":636.879,"endTime":638.469,"body":"it, it makes sense, right?"},{"startTime":638.729,"endTime":641.599,"body":"Now, of course, we are our"},{"startTime":638.729,"endTime":641.599,"body":"own sample size- Of course"},{"startTime":641.599,"endTime":641.869,"body":"our,"},{"startTime":642.059,"endTime":644.439,"body":"our planet, but it's not"},{"startTime":642.059,"endTime":644.439,"body":"just our civilization."},{"startTime":644.439,"endTime":645.619,"body":"You see the,"},{"startTime":645.679,"endTime":645.829,"body":"like,"},{"startTime":645.829,"endTime":649.419,"body":"like resource guarding, resource"},{"startTime":645.829,"endTime":649.419,"body":"collection, expansion, territory"},{"startTime":649.419,"endTime":651.289,"body":"guarding are present in,"},{"startTime":651.759,"endTime":652.009,"body":"like"},{"startTime":652.009,"endTime":653.669,"body":"hundreds of different species,"},{"startTime":653.824,"endTime":657.984,"body":"so we can, of course, make that assumption"},{"startTime":653.824,"endTime":657.984,"body":"unless we meet another civilization"},{"startTime":657.984,"endTime":659.644,"body":"that changes that- Of course ... um,"},{"startTime":659.644,"endTime":660.004,"body":"that,"},{"startTime":660.004,"endTime":663.894,"body":"that we will want to or that our"},{"startTime":660.004,"endTime":663.894,"body":"life will continue to do that"},{"startTime":663.924,"endTime":665.704,"body":"just throughout the universe."},{"startTime":665.744,"endTime":669.214,"body":"And just thinking about it from going back"},{"startTime":665.744,"endTime":669.214,"body":"to basics, just thinking about it in terms"},{"startTime":669.214,"endTime":669.674,"body":"of,"},{"startTime":669.674,"endTime":674.504,"body":"of life existing in general, any form"},{"startTime":669.674,"endTime":674.504,"body":"of life that's more expansionist than"},{"startTime":674.504,"endTime":677.694,"body":"the life around it is probably gonna"},{"startTime":674.504,"endTime":677.694,"body":"do better in, in Darwin's game of"},{"startTime":677.694,"endTime":681.514,"body":"evolution because they're better gonna"},{"startTime":677.694,"endTime":681.514,"body":"be able to expand out, extract more"},{"startTime":681.514,"endTime":685.634,"body":"resources, and out-compete, uh, less"},{"startTime":681.514,"endTime":685.634,"body":"expansionist f- uh, versions of life."},{"startTime":685.634,"endTime":688.834,"body":"So you would imagine any planet that"},{"startTime":685.634,"endTime":688.834,"body":"goes through natural selection is going"},{"startTime":688.834,"endTime":690.894,"body":"to tend toward favoring ex-expansionism."},{"startTime":690.894,"endTime":693.674,"body":"So I do genuinely believe"},{"startTime":690.894,"endTime":693.674,"body":"that's gonna be very common, and"},{"startTime":693.674,"endTime":693.844,"body":"that's,"},{"startTime":693.974,"endTime":697.124,"body":"that's where I'm basing my assumptions"},{"startTime":693.974,"endTime":697.124,"body":"on, that this is very likely"},{"startTime":697.124,"endTime":698.544,"body":"gonna be a universalizable truth."},{"startTime":698.774,"endTime":699.054,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":699.134,"endTime":699.834,"body":"I mean, it would,"},{"startTime":699.874,"endTime":702.084,"body":"it would actually go against all of"},{"startTime":702.084,"endTime":702.494,"body":"the,"},{"startTime":702.564,"endTime":702.744,"body":"the"},{"startTime":702.744,"endTime":705.504,"body":"facts that we have on life so"},{"startTime":702.744,"endTime":705.504,"body":"far to say that it wouldn't."},{"startTime":705.654,"endTime":706.324,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"startTime":706.324,"endTime":709.884,"body":"Now, of course, once you start talking"},{"startTime":706.324,"endTime":709.884,"body":"about advanced civilizations, things"},{"startTime":709.884,"endTime":711.694,"body":"get a little different because we can"},{"startTime":711.694,"endTime":712.094,"body":"kind of"},{"startTime":712.094,"endTime":713.984,"body":"separate ourselves from"},{"startTime":712.094,"endTime":713.984,"body":"biology a little bit."},{"startTime":714.264,"endTime":717.354,"body":"We're thinking, we're rational, a-"},{"startTime":714.264,"endTime":717.354,"body":"and there's always the possibility"},{"startTime":717.354,"endTime":721.354,"body":"that species may act differently"},{"startTime":717.354,"endTime":721.354,"body":"than just basic biological,"},{"startTime":721.564,"endTime":723.424,"body":"you know- bacteria, right?"},{"startTime":723.824,"endTime":726.864,"body":"Uh, so this kind of brings me onto"},{"startTime":723.824,"endTime":726.864,"body":"the second point of is this a valid"},{"startTime":726.864,"endTime":728.304,"body":"assumption, which is point number two."},{"startTime":728.954,"endTime":732.604,"body":"Even if it's not universalizable,"},{"startTime":728.954,"endTime":732.604,"body":"even if it's not the case that"},{"startTime":732.704,"endTime":735.624,"body":"all life expands, that's fine."},{"startTime":735.654,"endTime":739.404,"body":"You really just need some life to be"},{"startTime":735.654,"endTime":739.404,"body":"expansionist to have this theory work out."},{"startTime":739.894,"endTime":740.054,"body":"It,"},{"startTime":740.054,"endTime":740.924,"body":"it only takes..."},{"startTime":740.974,"endTime":741.724,"body":"depends, of course, on"},{"startTime":741.724,"endTime":741.984,"body":"the,"},{"startTime":741.984,"endTime":742.644,"body":"the density"},{"startTime":742.644,"endTime":743.084,"body":"of,"},{"startTime":743.174,"endTime":746.894,"body":"of life and intelligent life in the"},{"startTime":743.174,"endTime":746.894,"body":"universe, but even if one in 10 species"},{"startTime":746.964,"endTime":751.035,"body":"are actually expansionist and go out and,"},{"startTime":746.964,"endTime":751.035,"body":"and expand, that's fine for this theory."},{"startTime":751.035,"endTime":752.085,"body":"That doesn't break it at all."},{"startTime":752.385,"endTime":756.205,"body":"You just need some life to go out and"},{"startTime":752.385,"endTime":756.205,"body":"expand, and if that's the case, then this"},{"startTime":756.205,"endTime":759.715,"body":"grabby aliens theory works as long as"},{"startTime":756.205,"endTime":759.715,"body":"you don't f- find yourself in a really"},{"startTime":759.715,"endTime":762.035,"body":"rare situation where no life expands."},{"startTime":762.035,"endTime":762.135,"body":"And,"},{"startTime":762.135,"endTime":765.095,"body":"and that's the part where I would"},{"startTime":762.135,"endTime":765.095,"body":"say it starts to break this rule of"},{"startTime":765.095,"endTime":768.645,"body":"universalizability because in order"},{"startTime":765.095,"endTime":768.645,"body":"for this theory to not be true, it"},{"startTime":768.645,"endTime":773.045,"body":"would basically need to be the case"},{"startTime":768.645,"endTime":773.045,"body":"that no life goes out and expands,"},{"startTime":773.425,"endTime":774.805,"body":"and that is, of course, possible."},{"startTime":774.805,"endTime":777.505,"body":"Either life's extremely"},{"startTime":774.805,"endTime":777.505,"body":"rare, uh, so you only get,"},{"startTime":777.505,"endTime":777.655,"body":"like,"},{"startTime":777.655,"endTime":780.225,"body":"one life form in a galaxy cluster."},{"startTime":780.255,"endTime":782.625,"body":"In which case, even if"},{"startTime":780.255,"endTime":782.625,"body":"that life's expansionist,"},{"startTime":782.625,"endTime":782.705,"body":"it,"},{"startTime":782.705,"endTime":784.905,"body":"it'll likely never encounter other life."},{"startTime":785.067,"endTime":785.177,"body":"no,"},{"startTime":785.177,"endTime":785.467,"body":"I mean,"},{"startTime":785.467,"endTime":789.837,"body":"that, it definitely makes sense, but it's"},{"startTime":785.467,"endTime":789.837,"body":"just, uh, it just seems more unlikely."},{"startTime":789.977,"endTime":790.337,"body":"And"},{"startTime":790.337,"endTime":790.487,"body":"like,"},{"startTime":790.487,"endTime":791.687,"body":"just like if you were saying,"},{"startTime":791.763,"endTime":796.658,"body":"if only one is expanding, then tho-"},{"startTime":791.763,"endTime":796.658,"body":"those other planets could even be left"},{"startTime":796.658,"endTime":799.448,"body":"alone, but the aliens would branch out"},{"startTime":796.658,"endTime":799.448,"body":"and they would take everything else."},{"startTime":799.888,"endTime":803.028,"body":"But even us without being an"},{"startTime":799.888,"endTime":803.028,"body":"expanding civilization, we"},{"startTime":803.028,"endTime":804.258,"body":"already have the intention to do"},{"startTime":804.258,"endTime":804.618,"body":"so."},{"startTime":805.138,"endTime":810.238,"body":"So it's like that sample size being 100"},{"startTime":805.138,"endTime":810.238,"body":"just makes that more and more plausible."},{"startTime":810.314,"endTime":813.854,"body":"I guess another assumption this"},{"startTime":810.314,"endTime":813.854,"body":"also brings up is can we actually"},{"startTime":814.374,"endTime":815.944,"body":"expand and explore the galaxy?"},{"startTime":815.944,"endTime":818.544,"body":"I know that's very related to the"},{"startTime":815.944,"endTime":818.544,"body":"first point of would you want to."},{"startTime":818.664,"endTime":818.914,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":818.914,"endTime":820.244,"body":"But it is important to consider could you."},{"startTime":821.084,"endTime":821.724,"body":"And arguably, that's"},{"startTime":821.724,"endTime":824.534,"body":"kind of what this whole podcast is"},{"startTime":821.724,"endTime":824.534,"body":"about, how you would go and move about"},{"startTime":824.534,"endTime":828.694,"body":"the stars, and I see no reason why you"},{"startTime":824.534,"endTime":828.694,"body":"can't go and colonize the universe."},{"startTime":828.939,"endTime":829.079,"body":"I,"},{"startTime":829.079,"endTime":831.869,"body":"I know I already mentioned von Neumann"},{"startTime":829.079,"endTime":831.869,"body":"probes, but that's a great example."},{"startTime":831.869,"endTime":835.709,"body":"We already have an idea with something"},{"startTime":831.869,"endTime":835.709,"body":"like Project Sl- uh, Slingshot, where"},{"startTime":835.709,"endTime":838.799,"body":"we could potentially send a probe"},{"startTime":835.709,"endTime":838.799,"body":"to our nearest star, Alpha Centauri,"},{"startTime":838.799,"endTime":843.234,"body":"fairly quickly just through some,"},{"startTime":838.799,"endTime":843.234,"body":"uh, pusher lasers and solar cells."},{"startTime":843.234,"endTime":845.334,"body":"So it's not an impossible thing to do."},{"startTime":845.724,"endTime":847.444,"body":"To expand into the universe."},{"startTime":847.444,"endTime":849.364,"body":"Can you make self-replicating probes?"},{"startTime":849.774,"endTime":850.444,"body":"Sure, why not?"},{"startTime":850.514,"endTime":852.324,"body":"Uh, because biology can do it,"},{"startTime":852.324,"endTime":852.664,"body":"kind of"},{"startTime":852.664,"endTime":854.974,"body":"to me tells us that you can"},{"startTime":852.664,"endTime":854.974,"body":"do it with technology as well."},{"startTime":855.204,"endTime":858.254,"body":"You can design cells, you can"},{"startTime":855.204,"endTime":858.254,"body":"design, uh, biological biomechanical"},{"startTime":858.254,"endTime":859.444,"body":"beings if you really needed to."},{"startTime":859.834,"endTime":861.384,"body":"But there's no reason to"},{"startTime":859.834,"endTime":861.384,"body":"think that you couldn't design"},{"startTime":861.384,"endTime":862.754,"body":"self-replicating probes as well."},{"startTime":863.064,"endTime":866.424,"body":"And even if you couldn't design"},{"startTime":863.064,"endTime":866.424,"body":"self-replicating probes, uh, the fact that"},{"startTime":866.424,"endTime":868.333,"body":"you can, get to the same end with biology."},{"startTime":868.333,"endTime":868.573,"body":"You know,"},{"startTime":868.573,"endTime":870.983,"body":"we basically are self-replicating"},{"startTime":868.573,"endTime":870.983,"body":"von Neumann probes."},{"startTime":870.983,"endTime":874.143,"body":"I know I've read some science fiction"},{"startTime":870.983,"endTime":874.143,"body":"that involves that, um, that talks"},{"startTime":874.143,"endTime":875.113,"body":"about that idea, being- Mm-hmm"},{"startTime":875.113,"endTime":876.483,"body":"that life was started on the planet"},{"startTime":876.546,"endTime":880.286,"body":"and called out the fact that, uh,"},{"startTime":876.546,"endTime":880.286,"body":"that's kinda how biology, uh, behaves."},{"startTime":880.796,"endTime":882.276,"body":"And so we know that"},{"startTime":882.276,"endTime":882.466,"body":"it's,"},{"startTime":882.466,"endTime":883.566,"body":"it's perfectly possible"},{"startTime":883.566,"endTime":883.806,"body":"to,"},{"startTime":883.806,"endTime":884.746,"body":"to reach other stars."},{"startTime":885.186,"endTime":885.356,"body":"It,"},{"startTime":885.356,"endTime":886.426,"body":"it becomes questionable,"},{"startTime":886.426,"endTime":886.536,"body":"and,"},{"startTime":886.536,"endTime":888.406,"body":"and this is fair, if you could build,"},{"startTime":888.406,"endTime":888.636,"body":"like"},{"startTime":888.666,"endTime":892.136,"body":"interstellar colony ships and"},{"startTime":888.666,"endTime":892.136,"body":"send humans to other stars, but"},{"startTime":892.136,"endTime":893.276,"body":"I genuinely think you could."},{"startTime":893.336,"endTime":895.196,"body":"And you can also get around"},{"startTime":893.336,"endTime":895.196,"body":"that if you really want to."},{"startTime":895.315,"endTime":895.455,"body":"I,"},{"startTime":895.455,"endTime":899.145,"body":"I know Revelation Space touches on it,"},{"startTime":895.455,"endTime":899.145,"body":"and granted it doesn't work out well in"},{"startTime":899.145,"endTime":900.725,"body":"that book, but you can also send ships of,"},{"startTime":900.725,"endTime":900.945,"body":"like"},{"startTime":900.945,"endTime":903.105,"body":"embryos for example, 'cause"},{"startTime":900.945,"endTime":903.105,"body":"those are much smaller."},{"startTime":903.105,"endTime":905.205,"body":"You don't need to have"},{"startTime":903.105,"endTime":905.205,"body":"all the same life support."},{"startTime":905.249,"endTime":907.258,"body":"Grow them up with something like"},{"startTime":905.249,"endTime":907.258,"body":"an artificial womb, and then use"},{"startTime":907.258,"endTime":909.418,"body":"that as a way to expand the galaxy."},{"startTime":909.858,"endTime":912.048,"body":"In Revelation Space they all go"},{"startTime":909.858,"endTime":912.048,"body":"crazy because it turns out you"},{"startTime":912.048,"endTime":913.708,"body":"need parents, which fair enough."},{"startTime":913.908,"endTime":917.176,"body":"But- ... um, that's just one of the"},{"startTime":913.908,"endTime":917.176,"body":"examples of how you could do this."},{"startTime":917.496,"endTime":918.088,"body":"And I do think"},{"startTime":918.088,"endTime":920.757,"body":"you could build a ship that"},{"startTime":918.088,"endTime":920.757,"body":"actually contain humans and get"},{"startTime":920.757,"endTime":921.727,"body":"them to another star as well."},{"startTime":921.987,"endTime":922.307,"body":"Oh, yeah."},{"startTime":922.457,"endTime":922.877,"body":"Of course."},{"startTime":922.877,"endTime":923.167,"body":"I mean,"},{"startTime":923.167,"endTime":924.707,"body":"we've touched on that topic before."},{"startTime":924.737,"endTime":929.787,"body":"And, um, like actually going across"},{"startTime":924.737,"endTime":929.787,"body":"our entire galaxy and colonizing these"},{"startTime":929.787,"endTime":933.547,"body":"planets, especially if we're using,"},{"startTime":929.787,"endTime":933.547,"body":"uh, like von Neumann probes to do it"},{"startTime":933.547,"endTime":935.517,"body":"that are hyper-efficient, are able"},{"startTime":935.517,"endTime":935.747,"body":"to,"},{"startTime":935.747,"endTime":937.927,"body":"to colonize and move on to a new planet,"},{"startTime":937.957,"endTime":938.9,"body":"Drop people off,"},{"startTime":938.933,"endTime":940.653,"body":"or whatever we are at that point."},{"startTime":940.653,"endTime":942.223,"body":"Drop us off and then keep going."},{"startTime":942.343,"endTime":944.403,"body":"we could colonize the"},{"startTime":942.343,"endTime":944.403,"body":"entire galaxy, what, in"},{"startTime":944.403,"endTime":944.573,"body":"like"},{"startTime":944.573,"endTime":946.073,"body":"150 million years?"},{"startTime":946.353,"endTime":946.583,"body":"Oh,"},{"startTime":946.583,"endTime":946.783,"body":"no,"},{"startTime":946.783,"endTime":946.973,"body":"no,"},{"startTime":946.973,"endTime":947.203,"body":"like,"},{"startTime":947.203,"endTime":948.293,"body":"uh, two and a half million years."},{"startTime":948.983,"endTime":950.103,"body":"Two and a half million years."},{"startTime":950.363,"endTime":952.163,"body":"Now- I think that's assuming"},{"startTime":950.363,"endTime":952.163,"body":"10% the speed of light."},{"startTime":952.463,"endTime":952.823,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":952.963,"endTime":955.573,"body":"So now think about just, like, how long,"},{"startTime":955.624,"endTime":957.956,"body":"evolution has taken for"},{"startTime":955.624,"endTime":957.956,"body":"things to get to a point."},{"startTime":957.956,"endTime":961.416,"body":"Now, again, grabby aliens"},{"startTime":957.956,"endTime":961.416,"body":"doesn't have to be just one."},{"startTime":961.446,"endTime":963.586,"body":"It could... It would be"},{"startTime":961.446,"endTime":963.586,"body":"all the civilizations that"},{"startTime":963.586,"endTime":965.526,"body":"evolved to an expanding point,"},{"startTime":965.986,"endTime":967.076,"body":"Around the same time."},{"startTime":967.256,"endTime":967.466,"body":"And,"},{"startTime":967.466,"endTime":967.826,"body":"and,"},{"startTime":967.826,"endTime":969.346,"body":"There, there's different"},{"startTime":967.826,"endTime":969.346,"body":"borders could be set up."},{"startTime":969.346,"endTime":972.196,"body":"But it's just the assumption"},{"startTime":969.346,"endTime":972.196,"body":"that you are one of the first."},{"startTime":972.196,"endTime":975.396,"body":"So you don't even need to have the"},{"startTime":972.196,"endTime":975.396,"body":"whole galaxy assuming that on the"},{"startTime":975.396,"endTime":979.066,"body":"other side of the Milky Way there's"},{"startTime":975.396,"endTime":979.066,"body":"another civilization similar to us."},{"startTime":979.306,"endTime":979.536,"body":"You know,"},{"startTime":979.536,"endTime":980.766,"body":"we could split it in half."},{"startTime":981.216,"endTime":981.556,"body":"Uh, but-"},{"startTime":981.556,"endTime":984.106,"body":"And that's effectively the argument,"},{"startTime":981.556,"endTime":984.106,"body":"is you continue to expand until"},{"startTime":984.106,"endTime":985.836,"body":"you bump into other civilizations."},{"startTime":985.906,"endTime":986.156,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":986.386,"endTime":986.556,"body":"So"},{"startTime":986.556,"endTime":986.876,"body":"you,"},{"startTime":986.906,"endTime":988.986,"body":"you essentially expand,"},{"startTime":986.906,"endTime":988.986,"body":"you make those borders."},{"startTime":988.986,"endTime":992.006,"body":"But We would be expanding so"},{"startTime":988.986,"endTime":992.006,"body":"rapidly compared to evolution"},{"startTime":992.356,"endTime":995.593,"body":"that, we would essentially take"},{"startTime":992.356,"endTime":995.593,"body":"everything, that would be useful."},{"startTime":995.733,"endTime":996.323,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"startTime":996.323,"endTime":1000.643,"body":"If you are colonizing and terraforming"},{"startTime":996.323,"endTime":1000.643,"body":"planets as you cross them- Then"},{"startTime":1000.643,"endTime":1002.093,"body":"the odds of other life forming"},{"startTime":1002.093,"endTime":1002.243,"body":"and,"},{"startTime":1002.243,"endTime":1005.723,"body":"and developing intelligence"},{"startTime":1002.243,"endTime":1005.723,"body":"is, this theory argues, zero."},{"startTime":1005.723,"endTime":1007.993,"body":"Although that's another assumption"},{"startTime":1005.723,"endTime":1007.993,"body":"that we can evaluate too."},{"startTime":1008.373,"endTime":1012.843,"body":"Would it be the case that because a"},{"startTime":1008.373,"endTime":1012.843,"body":"civilization is expanding, that it"},{"startTime":1012.843,"endTime":1016.443,"body":"necessarily means that new civilizations"},{"startTime":1012.843,"endTime":1016.443,"body":"couldn't start within their borders?"},{"startTime":1016.803,"endTime":1017.133,"body":"And that's,"},{"startTime":1017.163,"endTime":1017.383,"body":"that,"},{"startTime":1017.433,"endTime":1019.973,"body":"that one I question, because"},{"startTime":1017.433,"endTime":1019.973,"body":"I could definitely see cases"},{"startTime":1019.973,"endTime":1023.405,"body":"where intelligent species like"},{"startTime":1019.973,"endTime":1023.405,"body":"ourselves, decide not to do that."},{"startTime":1023.455,"endTime":1026.605,"body":"For example, number one is that"},{"startTime":1023.455,"endTime":1026.605,"body":"we've made the argument so many"},{"startTime":1026.605,"endTime":1027.825,"body":"times on this show, it almost"},{"startTime":1027.825,"endTime":1028.185,"body":"gets"},{"startTime":1028.185,"endTime":1031.095,"body":"gets old, uh, but we don't think"},{"startTime":1028.185,"endTime":1031.095,"body":"living on planets is necessarily"},{"startTime":1031.095,"endTime":1032.435,"body":"the best way to go about things."},{"startTime":1032.543,"endTime":1036.404,"body":"we think that it's very possible you"},{"startTime":1032.543,"endTime":1036.404,"body":"may favor living in orbital habitats,"},{"startTime":1036.404,"endTime":1039.574,"body":"things like O'Neill cylinders,"},{"startTime":1036.404,"endTime":1039.574,"body":"McKendree cylinders, uh, what have you."},{"startTime":1039.894,"endTime":1043.074,"body":"And in this case, planets suddenly"},{"startTime":1039.894,"endTime":1043.074,"body":"become a little less valuable"},{"startTime":1043.384,"endTime":1044.744,"body":"than I think this theory posits."},{"startTime":1044.914,"endTime":1045.134,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1045.164,"endTime":1048.584,"body":"And so it's very possible that as you're"},{"startTime":1045.164,"endTime":1048.584,"body":"expanding across the universe, if you"},{"startTime":1048.584,"endTime":1052.914,"body":"discover a planet that already has life"},{"startTime":1048.584,"endTime":1052.914,"body":"on it, not intelligent life, but just"},{"startTime":1052.914,"endTime":1056.584,"body":"life in general, that you may decide"},{"startTime":1052.914,"endTime":1056.584,"body":"to quarantine this planet, use it for"},{"startTime":1056.584,"endTime":1060.114,"body":"scientific study, uh, but allow it"},{"startTime":1056.584,"endTime":1060.114,"body":"to go through its own natural course."},{"startTime":1060.464,"endTime":1064.204,"body":"And I think especially if that"},{"startTime":1060.464,"endTime":1064.204,"body":"life is fairly rare, you would, you"},{"startTime":1064.204,"endTime":1067.204,"body":"might treat these planets as like"},{"startTime":1064.204,"endTime":1067.204,"body":"jewels a- and not jump on them."},{"startTime":1067.624,"endTime":1068.994,"body":"And another thing I"},{"startTime":1067.624,"endTime":1068.994,"body":"wanna point out, because"},{"startTime":1068.994,"endTime":1069.104,"body":"I,"},{"startTime":1069.144,"endTime":1073.714,"body":"I know a critique to that might be,"},{"startTime":1069.144,"endTime":1073.714,"body":"okay, especially if life is rare, if"},{"startTime":1073.714,"endTime":1075.274,"body":"we come across a biosphere, aren't we"},{"startTime":1075.274,"endTime":1077.684,"body":"gonna wanna jump into that and use it?"},{"startTime":1077.684,"endTime":1080.224,"body":"Because what are the odds of finding"},{"startTime":1077.684,"endTime":1080.224,"body":"planets that can support our life?"},{"startTime":1080.894,"endTime":1082.794,"body":"But just because you find"},{"startTime":1080.894,"endTime":1082.794,"body":"a biosphere doesn't mean"},{"startTime":1082.794,"endTime":1082.884,"body":"that"},{"startTime":1082.884,"endTime":1084.474,"body":"that's gonna be able to"},{"startTime":1082.884,"endTime":1084.474,"body":"support our kind of life."},{"startTime":1084.804,"endTime":1088.334,"body":"It could work on very different ratios"},{"startTime":1084.804,"endTime":1088.334,"body":"of gases, even just different levels of"},{"startTime":1088.334,"endTime":1091.554,"body":"oxygen could make it very hard for us to"},{"startTime":1088.334,"endTime":1091.554,"body":"exist, could be different temperatures,"},{"startTime":1092.014,"endTime":1096.014,"body":"and it could actually be, uh, harder to"},{"startTime":1092.014,"endTime":1096.014,"body":"adapt a biosphere to support our life"},{"startTime":1096.014,"endTime":1097.344,"body":"than starting with a sterile planet."},{"startTime":1097.422,"endTime":1101.602,"body":"so I don't necessarily know if that's"},{"startTime":1097.422,"endTime":1101.602,"body":"true, that because a civilization is"},{"startTime":1101.602,"endTime":1106.062,"body":"grabby, quote-unquote, and expansionist,"},{"startTime":1101.602,"endTime":1106.062,"body":"that it wouldn't preserve planets"},{"startTime":1106.062,"endTime":1108.872,"body":"that are harboring life and allow"},{"startTime":1106.062,"endTime":1108.872,"body":"them to go through their own course."},{"startTime":1109.342,"endTime":1109.442,"body":"No,"},{"startTime":1109.442,"endTime":1109.962,"body":"I mean, it,"},{"startTime":1109.992,"endTime":1111.012,"body":"it definitely could."},{"startTime":1111.125,"endTime":1111.609,"body":"but At,"},{"startTime":1111.609,"endTime":1115.919,"body":"at what point does that civilization"},{"startTime":1111.609,"endTime":1115.919,"body":"become a- advanced enough to where,"},{"startTime":1115.919,"endTime":1116.169,"body":"like,"},{"startTime":1116.289,"endTime":1118.779,"body":"do we allow them to get to the"},{"startTime":1116.289,"endTime":1118.779,"body":"point to where they expand out"},{"startTime":1118.836,"endTime":1121.941,"body":"into their solar system or to"},{"startTime":1118.836,"endTime":1121.941,"body":"where they can even observe us?"},{"startTime":1122.421,"endTime":1124.607,"body":"Because if the grabby aliens theory is,"},{"startTime":1124.646,"endTime":1125.026,"body":"we,"},{"startTime":1125.026,"endTime":1128.356,"body":"we are one of the first because if"},{"startTime":1125.026,"endTime":1128.356,"body":"we weren't, then we wouldn't exist-"},{"startTime":1128.356,"endTime":1129.446,"body":"Exactly ... at the point that we are now."},{"startTime":1129.446,"endTime":1132.306,"body":"And that's why that would break the"},{"startTime":1129.446,"endTime":1132.306,"body":"theory if the grabby aliens don't"},{"startTime":1132.306,"endTime":1136.276,"body":"just automatically occupy planets and"},{"startTime":1132.306,"endTime":1136.276,"body":"prevent life from forming on them or"},{"startTime":1136.276,"endTime":1137.536,"body":"intelligent life from evolving on them."},{"startTime":1137.736,"endTime":1138.453,"body":"I mean, they could,"},{"startTime":1138.453,"endTime":1138.673,"body":"Like,"},{"startTime":1138.673,"endTime":1140.466,"body":"let's say they, they could allow"},{"startTime":1140.706,"endTime":1141.026,"body":"life,"},{"startTime":1141.026,"endTime":1144.483,"body":"life to get to the point of how"},{"startTime":1141.026,"endTime":1144.483,"body":"we were maybe 1,000 years ago."},{"startTime":1144.693,"endTime":1145.783,"body":"Because at that point,"},{"startTime":1145.783,"endTime":1145.983,"body":"you know,"},{"startTime":1145.983,"endTime":1146.303,"body":"we didn't"},{"startTime":1146.303,"endTime":1146.613,"body":"really have"},{"startTime":1146.613,"endTime":1148.543,"body":"the technology to even"},{"startTime":1146.613,"endTime":1148.543,"body":"be able to observe them."},{"startTime":1148.543,"endTime":1151.983,"body":"But with how we are now, it's"},{"startTime":1148.543,"endTime":1151.983,"body":"safe to assume that if they had"},{"startTime":1152.153,"endTime":1155.053,"body":"O'Neill cylinders in our solar"},{"startTime":1152.153,"endTime":1155.053,"body":"system, we would be aware of them."},{"startTime":1155.183,"endTime":1155.283,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1155.283,"endTime":1155.533,"body":"But they,"},{"startTime":1155.533,"endTime":1155.923,"body":"but they don't."},{"startTime":1156.097,"endTime":1159.647,"body":"The whole argument for the Fermi paradox"},{"startTime":1156.097,"endTime":1159.647,"body":"is we should be able to detect things like"},{"startTime":1159.947,"endTime":1163.907,"body":"Dyson swarms in the universe, and we could"},{"startTime":1159.947,"endTime":1163.907,"body":"detect those from a very long way away."},{"startTime":1164.327,"endTime":1167.937,"body":"Uh, so obviously as far as"},{"startTime":1164.327,"endTime":1167.937,"body":"we can tell right now, that's"},{"startTime":1167.937,"endTime":1168.877,"body":"the ca- we don't see that."},{"startTime":1168.877,"endTime":1169.907,"body":"We think we're one of the first."},{"startTime":1170.017,"endTime":1174.957,"body":"But if we were one of these upstart"},{"startTime":1170.017,"endTime":1174.957,"body":"civilizations in a quarantined planet,"},{"startTime":1175.297,"endTime":1177.227,"body":"then that would be something different."},{"startTime":1177.227,"endTime":1179.749,"body":"And what we really would have to"},{"startTime":1177.227,"endTime":1179.749,"body":"do is explore this in a whole other"},{"startTime":1179.749,"endTime":1182.329,"body":"episode on the zoo hypothesis, 'cause"},{"startTime":1179.749,"endTime":1182.329,"body":"that's effectively what this is."},{"startTime":1182.418,"endTime":1182.738,"body":"but"},{"startTime":1182.876,"endTime":1182.946,"body":"I,"},{"startTime":1182.946,"endTime":1186.006,"body":"I do wanna call out that one"},{"startTime":1182.946,"endTime":1186.006,"body":"assumption on this grabby aliens"},{"startTime":1186.006,"endTime":1188.886,"body":"theory, and it's always kinda nagged"},{"startTime":1186.006,"endTime":1188.886,"body":"at me, is that I don't necessarily"},{"startTime":1188.886,"endTime":1191.129,"body":"think you can just call it true that"},{"startTime":1191.322,"endTime":1191.462,"body":"an"},{"startTime":1191.462,"endTime":1196.352,"body":"advanced civilization would make it"},{"startTime":1191.462,"endTime":1196.352,"body":"impossible for intelligent life to form"},{"startTime":1196.772,"endTime":1198.422,"body":"on planets that are within its boundaries."},{"startTime":1198.582,"endTime":1198.752,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1198.789,"endTime":1202.429,"body":"it definitely could be true, and"},{"startTime":1198.789,"endTime":1202.429,"body":"bringing in the zoo hypothesis"},{"startTime":1202.429,"endTime":1202.639,"body":"is,"},{"startTime":1202.699,"endTime":1207.461,"body":"is great because again, that is another"},{"startTime":1202.699,"endTime":1207.461,"body":"thing that we do here on, on Earth."},{"startTime":1207.531,"endTime":1212.007,"body":"So going off of those assumptions, if"},{"startTime":1207.531,"endTime":1212.007,"body":"we do find something like life, and,"},{"startTime":1212.16,"endTime":1215.83,"body":"we've talked about this a lot before,"},{"startTime":1212.16,"endTime":1215.83,"body":"but living off planet is gonna be way"},{"startTime":1215.83,"endTime":1217.851,"body":"more efficient, um, than trying to,"},{"startTime":1217.88,"endTime":1219.146,"body":"survive on a planet."},{"startTime":1219.21,"endTime":1222.9,"body":"then I don't see a reason why we"},{"startTime":1219.21,"endTime":1222.9,"body":"wouldn't wanna preserve life and"},{"startTime":1222.9,"endTime":1223.1,"body":"just,"},{"startTime":1223.1,"endTime":1226.08,"body":"just for observation,"},{"startTime":1223.1,"endTime":1226.08,"body":"scientific study, or just,"},{"startTime":1226.08,"endTime":1226.35,"body":"like,"},{"startTime":1226.82,"endTime":1229.25,"body":"some kind of futuristic entertainment"},{"startTime":1229.63,"endTime":1229.87,"body":"for,"},{"startTime":1229.87,"endTime":1233.3,"body":"for public masses to go and visit"},{"startTime":1229.87,"endTime":1233.3,"body":"all these different creatures."},{"startTime":1233.45,"endTime":1234.38,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"startTime":1234.68,"endTime":1237.641,"body":"Now of course that's assuming you find"},{"startTime":1234.68,"endTime":1237.641,"body":"a planet that already has a biosphere."},{"startTime":1237.641,"endTime":1241.421,"body":"It is worth pointing out even cold,"},{"startTime":1237.641,"endTime":1241.421,"body":"dead rocks could eventually harbor"},{"startTime":1241.421,"endTime":1242.451,"body":"life down the road, so that's"},{"startTime":1242.451,"endTime":1242.811,"body":"kinda the"},{"startTime":1242.811,"endTime":1246.561,"body":"argument for the grabby aliens theory"},{"startTime":1242.811,"endTime":1246.561,"body":"is even if they're benevolent, uh,"},{"startTime":1246.561,"endTime":1250.121,"body":"they may deny opportunities for life"},{"startTime":1246.561,"endTime":1250.121,"body":"down the road just because they're"},{"startTime":1250.451,"endTime":1252.911,"body":"taking these resources of planets"},{"startTime":1250.451,"endTime":1252.911,"body":"that would eventually harbor life."},{"startTime":1252.981,"endTime":1253.191,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1253.361,"endTime":1254.641,"body":"Uh, so I guess that is also"},{"startTime":1254.641,"endTime":1254.901,"body":"kind of"},{"startTime":1254.901,"endTime":1258.641,"body":"playing into it too is if you only were"},{"startTime":1254.901,"endTime":1258.641,"body":"to allow planets that  already have a"},{"startTime":1258.641,"endTime":1263.071,"body":"biosphere to exist, then you still might"},{"startTime":1258.641,"endTime":1263.071,"body":"be denying a bunch of opportunities."},{"startTime":1263.481,"endTime":1266.141,"body":"And depending on how rare life"},{"startTime":1263.481,"endTime":1266.141,"body":"is, it could be the case that,"},{"startTime":1266.531,"endTime":1268.411,"body":"uh, you still kinda play into it."},{"startTime":1268.411,"endTime":1270.491,"body":"But again, I think that we're gonna"},{"startTime":1268.411,"endTime":1270.491,"body":"have to do an episode on the zoo"},{"startTime":1270.491,"endTime":1273.211,"body":"hypothesis and dive into that a little"},{"startTime":1270.491,"endTime":1273.211,"body":"deeper, 'cause that could turn into"},{"startTime":1273.211,"endTime":1276.141,"body":"its whole other episode, and I do think"},{"startTime":1273.211,"endTime":1276.141,"body":"it's a fascinating one to think about."},{"startTime":1276.141,"endTime":1276.511,"body":"It is."},{"startTime":1276.961,"endTime":1278.241,"body":"And it also"},{"startTime":1278.441,"endTime":1278.711,"body":"kind of"},{"startTime":1278.711,"endTime":1281.151,"body":"draws us into an assumption on"},{"startTime":1278.711,"endTime":1281.151,"body":"the Fermi paradox as a whole,"},{"startTime":1281.25,"endTime":1284.04,"body":"which of course this being a solution"},{"startTime":1281.25,"endTime":1284.04,"body":"to is also something to consider,"},{"startTime":1284.5,"endTime":1288.63,"body":"which is could we necessarily"},{"startTime":1284.5,"endTime":1288.63,"body":"detect advanced alien civilizations?"},{"startTime":1289.03,"endTime":1292.61,"body":"And essentially the assumption there is"},{"startTime":1289.03,"endTime":1292.61,"body":"that advanced civilizations are gonna"},{"startTime":1292.61,"endTime":1297.06,"body":"build massive solar collecting things"},{"startTime":1292.61,"endTime":1297.06,"body":"like Dyson swarms, which is something"},{"startTime":1297.06,"endTime":1300.543,"body":"we could detect from a very far distance"},{"startTime":1297.06,"endTime":1300.543,"body":"even with our current technology."},{"startTime":1300.913,"endTime":1303.493,"body":"In fact, we thought we observed"},{"startTime":1300.913,"endTime":1303.493,"body":"one with something like Tabby Star,"},{"startTime":1303.863,"endTime":1306.563,"body":"which ended up just being a star"},{"startTime":1303.863,"endTime":1306.563,"body":"that was occluded by some dust."},{"startTime":1306.963,"endTime":1309.843,"body":"Uh, but the fact that we could even detect"},{"startTime":1306.963,"endTime":1309.843,"body":"that, it kinda gives you an idea of why"},{"startTime":1309.843,"endTime":1311.733,"body":"we assume we can detect Dyson swarms."},{"startTime":1312.193,"endTime":1312.523,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1312.627,"endTime":1312.857,"body":"I see"},{"startTime":1312.857,"endTime":1314.172,"body":"some people, they think that,"},{"startTime":1314.172,"endTime":1318.468,"body":"the aliens would maybe hide that"},{"startTime":1314.172,"endTime":1318.468,"body":"technology from us, um, by some kind"},{"startTime":1318.468,"endTime":1321.108,"body":"of cloaking or something like that"},{"startTime":1318.468,"endTime":1321.108,"body":"to where we couldn't observe it."},{"startTime":1321.598,"endTime":1321.878,"body":"But"},{"startTime":1321.918,"endTime":1321.948,"body":"I,"},{"startTime":1321.948,"endTime":1324.338,"body":"I think that it's a little bit"},{"startTime":1321.948,"endTime":1324.338,"body":"egotistical to think that they would"},{"startTime":1324.338,"endTime":1327.938,"body":"even care that m- building those"},{"startTime":1324.338,"endTime":1327.938,"body":"structures, being broadcasted to a"},{"startTime":1327.938,"endTime":1332.318,"body":"civilization, uh, so low beneath them"},{"startTime":1327.938,"endTime":1332.318,"body":"as ours would be, that they would even"},{"startTime":1332.318,"endTime":1333.718,"body":"be concerned with something like that."},{"startTime":1333.928,"endTime":1334.178,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1334.218,"endTime":1335.358,"body":"It's always tricky to say, and"},{"startTime":1335.358,"endTime":1335.518,"body":"it's,"},{"startTime":1335.518,"endTime":1338.718,"body":"it's really tricky to try to guess the"},{"startTime":1335.518,"endTime":1338.718,"body":"motivations of an alien intelligence."},{"startTime":1338.718,"endTime":1338.788,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1339.158,"endTime":1340.678,"body":"Um, but I could see it going either way."},{"startTime":1340.778,"endTime":1341.368,"body":"But I agree with you."},{"startTime":1341.368,"endTime":1344.418,"body":"W- it could be the case they just"},{"startTime":1341.368,"endTime":1344.418,"body":"don't care, and when you find"},{"startTime":1344.418,"endTime":1346.508,"body":"yourself able to detect them,"},{"startTime":1344.418,"endTime":1346.508,"body":"maybe they swing down and say hi."},{"startTime":1347.028,"endTime":1349.958,"body":"Uh,  but yeah, there's all"},{"startTime":1347.028,"endTime":1349.958,"body":"kinds of ways that you could"},{"startTime":1349.958,"endTime":1351.148,"body":"get around that, so who knows?"},{"startTime":1351.628,"endTime":1352.158,"body":"Uh, but I do"},{"startTime":1352.158,"endTime":1352.378,"body":"like"},{"startTime":1352.378,"endTime":1355.168,"body":"that the, this theory posits that"},{"startTime":1352.378,"endTime":1355.168,"body":"we could be one of the first or..."},{"startTime":1355.218,"endTime":1356.908,"body":"It actually goes even further."},{"startTime":1356.908,"endTime":1358.848,"body":"It doesn't just say that we"},{"startTime":1356.908,"endTime":1358.848,"body":"could be one of the first."},{"startTime":1359.258,"endTime":1360.528,"body":"It argues that we are one of the first-"},{"startTime":1360.528,"endTime":1360.558,"body":"Mm-hmm"},{"startTime":1360.558,"endTime":1361.758,"body":"and we must be one of the first."},{"startTime":1362.358,"endTime":1362.568,"body":"Yeah,"},{"startTime":1362.618,"endTime":1363.068,"body":"I agree."},{"startTime":1363.068,"endTime":1366.118,"body":"That's why I think that this one is"},{"startTime":1363.068,"endTime":1366.118,"body":"really cool to think about because"},{"startTime":1366.12,"endTime":1368.221,"body":"by its nature, we would have to be."},{"startTime":1368.331,"endTime":1369.221,"body":"And that is"},{"startTime":1369.721,"endTime":1370.631,"body":"kind of... You know,"},{"startTime":1370.631,"endTime":1372.071,"body":"it's lonely, but it's exciting."},{"startTime":1372.531,"endTime":1375.311,"body":"Yeah, I like the idea we could be"},{"startTime":1372.531,"endTime":1375.311,"body":"some galaxy-spanning empire, and it's"},{"startTime":1375.311,"endTime":1375.561,"body":"kind of"},{"startTime":1375.561,"endTime":1376.671,"body":"fun to think about it in this way."},{"startTime":1377.251,"endTime":1381.364,"body":"And it does fit with my model of"},{"startTime":1377.251,"endTime":1381.364,"body":"how I expect humanity to function."},{"startTime":1381.364,"endTime":1383.814,"body":"I think we're gonna continue"},{"startTime":1381.364,"endTime":1383.814,"body":"to expand out as much as we can"},{"startTime":1383.814,"endTime":1383.964,"body":"and,"},{"startTime":1384.284,"endTime":1386.004,"body":"and take over any resources we can."},{"startTime":1386.004,"endTime":1387.294,"body":"So o- on that sense, I"},{"startTime":1387.294,"endTime":1387.624,"body":"kind of"},{"startTime":1387.624,"endTime":1389.154,"body":"agree with the grabby aliens theory."},{"startTime":1389.564,"endTime":1392.391,"body":"And I guess my main critique with"},{"startTime":1389.564,"endTime":1392.391,"body":"it and the main thing that could"},{"startTime":1392.391,"endTime":1394.111,"body":"counter it and make it not true,"},{"startTime":1394.111,"endTime":1394.291,"body":"I mean,"},{"startTime":1394.291,"endTime":1396.811,"body":"there's a bunch of other Fermi paradox"},{"startTime":1394.291,"endTime":1396.811,"body":"solutions that could make it not true,"},{"startTime":1396.901,"endTime":1400.081,"body":"but I guess my main critique with it"},{"startTime":1396.901,"endTime":1400.081,"body":"is that it kinda breaks if you just"},{"startTime":1400.081,"endTime":1401.561,"body":"believe that life is extremely rare."},{"startTime":1401.921,"endTime":1402.071,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1402.071,"endTime":1404.831,"body":"That's a perfectly valid alternative"},{"startTime":1402.071,"endTime":1404.831,"body":"and kinda breaks this theory"},{"startTime":1404.831,"endTime":1406.191,"body":"if, uh, if that is the case."},{"startTime":1406.224,"endTime":1408.414,"body":"so a- and that is something"},{"startTime":1406.224,"endTime":1408.414,"body":"I could also see, 'cause"},{"startTime":1408.414,"endTime":1408.484,"body":"I,"},{"startTime":1408.484,"endTime":1411.204,"body":"I still think that in my head"},{"startTime":1408.484,"endTime":1411.204,"body":"and, like, when I'm, like,"},{"startTime":1411.234,"endTime":1413.324,"body":"ranking which Fermi paradox"},{"startTime":1413.324,"endTime":1413.694,"body":"solutions"},{"startTime":1413.694,"endTime":1416.794,"body":"do I think are actually true, I do"},{"startTime":1413.694,"endTime":1416.794,"body":"think the odds of life being just"},{"startTime":1416.834,"endTime":1421.294,"body":"incredibly rare, maybe again instead of"},{"startTime":1416.834,"endTime":1421.294,"body":"thinking it happens a couple of times"},{"startTime":1421.294,"endTime":1424.534,"body":"in a galaxy, it might only happen a"},{"startTime":1421.294,"endTime":1424.534,"body":"couple of times in a galaxy cluster."},{"startTime":1424.914,"endTime":1426.864,"body":"Maybe we're the only intelligent life, uh,"},{"startTime":1426.864,"endTime":1427.214,"body":"you know,"},{"startTime":1427.214,"endTime":1429.574,"body":"within a couple hundred"},{"startTime":1427.214,"endTime":1429.574,"body":"million light years of, Earth."},{"startTime":1430.134,"endTime":1432.744,"body":"That also, uh, to me just"},{"startTime":1430.134,"endTime":1432.744,"body":"seems like it's very possible."},{"startTime":1432.988,"endTime":1433.368,"body":"Yeah, no."},{"startTime":1433.368,"endTime":1433.578,"body":"I"},{"startTime":1433.578,"endTime":1433.808,"body":"mean,"},{"startTime":1433.808,"endTime":1434.078,"body":"uh,"},{"startTime":1434.418,"endTime":1434.668,"body":"it's,"},{"startTime":1434.668,"endTime":1438.768,"body":"it's like you said in the beginning of"},{"startTime":1434.668,"endTime":1438.768,"body":"the episode, random chance is always a"},{"startTime":1438.768,"endTime":1440.618,"body":"possibility, and there is a random chance"},{"startTime":1440.618,"endTime":1441.138,"body":"that we,"},{"startTime":1441.248,"endTime":1442.858,"body":"that we are the first civilization."},{"startTime":1443.258,"endTime":1445.08,"body":"And if that's true, then,"},{"startTime":1445.11,"endTime":1445.35,"body":"you know,"},{"startTime":1445.35,"endTime":1445.7,"body":"there's,"},{"startTime":1445.834,"endTime":1446.014,"body":"like,"},{"startTime":1446.014,"endTime":1446.894,"body":"the grabby aliens,"},{"startTime":1446.894,"endTime":1447.234,"body":"like,"},{"startTime":1447.264,"endTime":1450.424,"body":"other civilizations expanding"},{"startTime":1447.264,"endTime":1450.424,"body":"really has nothing to do with that."},{"startTime":1450.593,"endTime":1455.513,"body":"it is easier to grab onto grabby"},{"startTime":1450.593,"endTime":1455.513,"body":"aliens, no, no pun intended, because,"},{"startTime":1455.637,"endTime":1456.187,"body":"They give you"},{"startTime":1456.187,"endTime":1456.507,"body":"this,"},{"startTime":1456.507,"endTime":1459.563,"body":"this definite, excuse as"},{"startTime":1456.507,"endTime":1459.563,"body":"to why we would be here."},{"startTime":1459.773,"endTime":1461.003,"body":"Yeah, no, absolutely."},{"startTime":1461.283,"endTime":1463.373,"body":"With that, is there any other"},{"startTime":1461.283,"endTime":1463.373,"body":"assumptions you can think of that"},{"startTime":1463.373,"endTime":1466.263,"body":"this theory needs that should be"},{"startTime":1463.373,"endTime":1466.263,"body":"evaluated or that we should underline?"},{"startTime":1466.52,"endTime":1466.83,"body":"No,"},{"startTime":1466.83,"endTime":1466.97,"body":"no,"},{"startTime":1466.97,"endTime":1467.79,"body":"I, I, I think,"},{"startTime":1467.79,"endTime":1468.84,"body":"I think that's about it."},{"startTime":1468.98,"endTime":1472.47,"body":"Yeah, so this was a bit of a shorter"},{"startTime":1468.98,"endTime":1472.47,"body":"episode, but it's an interesting"},{"startTime":1472.47,"endTime":1476.13,"body":"topic to touch on, and, uh, worth"},{"startTime":1472.47,"endTime":1476.13,"body":"evaluating some of those assumptions."},{"startTime":1476.206,"endTime":1479.826,"body":"So I hope you all enjoyed it, and I think"},{"startTime":1476.206,"endTime":1479.826,"body":"this sparked us and inspired us to dive"},{"startTime":1479.826,"endTime":1482.896,"body":"into the zoo hypothesis as a solution"},{"startTime":1479.826,"endTime":1482.896,"body":"to the Fermi paradox for next week."},{"startTime":1482.896,"endTime":1486.366,"body":"So if you enjoyed the Fermi paradox and"},{"startTime":1482.896,"endTime":1486.366,"body":"you wanna hear more about it, check out"},{"startTime":1486.366,"endTime":1487.986,"body":"our next episode when that's released."},{"startTime":1488.436,"endTime":1489.256,"body":"Thank you all for joining."},{"startTime":1489.646,"endTime":1490.206,"body":"Thank you, guys."},{"startTime":1490.296,"endTime":1490.576,"body":"Bye-bye."},{"startTime":1490.756,"endTime":1490.926,"body":"Bye."}]}