{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":0.279,"body":"I mean,"},{"startTime":0.289,"endTime":3.729,"body":"harvesting chemical compounds makes"},{"startTime":0.289,"endTime":3.729,"body":"sense, but, being able to pull it"},{"startTime":3.729,"endTime":8.909,"body":"from something that's so non-energy"},{"startTime":3.729,"endTime":8.909,"body":"dense as rocks or iron is crazy."},{"startTime":8.925,"endTime":9.134,"body":"yeah."},{"startTime":9.134,"endTime":10.485,"body":"It's like the last"},{"startTime":9.134,"endTime":10.485,"body":"thing you think of food."},{"startTime":10.485,"endTime":11.714,"body":"I think rocks as food is just,"},{"startTime":11.714,"endTime":11.964,"body":"like, the,"},{"startTime":12.004,"endTime":15.394,"body":"joke 'cause it's like, what could you"},{"startTime":12.004,"endTime":15.394,"body":"think of that's less food than rocks?"},{"startTime":15.394,"endTime":17.741,"body":"But those bacteria, it's hold my rock."},{"startTime":17.816,"endTime":18.126,"body":"I mean,"},{"startTime":18.126,"endTime":21.526,"body":"at that point, you're pretty much"},{"startTime":18.126,"endTime":21.526,"body":"saying life could exist anywhere."},{"startTime":25.56,"endTime":28.807,"body":"welcome to Entropy Rising, A podcast"},{"startTime":25.56,"endTime":28.807,"body":"all about science and futurism."},{"startTime":29.097,"endTime":33.147,"body":"I'm your host, Jacob, and joining"},{"startTime":29.097,"endTime":33.147,"body":"me is my wonderful co-host, Lucas."},{"startTime":33.887,"endTime":34.967,"body":"Lucas, how are you doing today?"},{"startTime":35.288,"endTime":35.828,"body":"I'm good, Jake."},{"startTime":35.838,"endTime":36.268,"body":"How are you?"},{"startTime":36.568,"endTime":37.218,"body":"Doing well."},{"startTime":37.232,"endTime":38.599,"body":"ex-excited for this topic."},{"startTime":38.599,"endTime":39.909,"body":"I think it's gonna be a fun one."},{"startTime":39.909,"endTime":41.359,"body":"Would you like to do the introduction?"},{"startTime":41.709,"endTime":42.259,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":42.289,"endTime":45.956,"body":"So we're going to be talking about,"},{"startTime":42.289,"endTime":45.956,"body":"life without photosynthesis, the way"},{"startTime":45.956,"endTime":49.636,"body":"that life could keep itself going"},{"startTime":45.956,"endTime":49.636,"body":"and feed itself and produce energy"},{"startTime":49.636,"endTime":53.636,"body":"without that, and, what would be"},{"startTime":49.636,"endTime":53.636,"body":"the base of our ecosystem without,"},{"startTime":53.736,"endTime":54.926,"body":"Plants essentially."},{"startTime":55.176,"endTime":55.396,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":55.396,"endTime":58.206,"body":"And I think this is actually,"},{"startTime":55.396,"endTime":58.206,"body":"in my opinion, a really"},{"startTime":58.206,"endTime":61.609,"body":"interesting topic because it"},{"startTime":58.206,"endTime":61.609,"body":"isn't just pedantic or arbitrary."},{"startTime":61.609,"endTime":64.529,"body":"This is actually a situation that"},{"startTime":61.609,"endTime":64.529,"body":"we could envision a lot of life in."},{"startTime":64.539,"endTime":65.079,"body":"I mean,"},{"startTime":65.079,"endTime":68.509,"body":"even in our own backyard, we're looking"},{"startTime":65.079,"endTime":68.509,"body":"at planets like Europa, which of"},{"startTime":68.509,"endTime":70.299,"body":"course is one of the moons of Jupiter."},{"startTime":70.569,"endTime":74.199,"body":"It's completely covered in ice, but we"},{"startTime":70.569,"endTime":74.199,"body":"speculate there's a liquid ocean below"},{"startTime":74.199,"endTime":77.872,"body":"that ice, And we think that planet's"},{"startTime":74.199,"endTime":77.872,"body":"actually fairly geologically active, just"},{"startTime":77.872,"endTime":81.512,"body":"due to the stretching and compressing"},{"startTime":77.872,"endTime":81.512,"body":"it does as it orbits around Jupiter."},{"startTime":81.512,"endTime":85.722,"body":"So there's a potential energy gradient"},{"startTime":81.512,"endTime":85.722,"body":"there, but not light, not photosynthesis."},{"startTime":85.722,"endTime":89.182,"body":"It's too far away from the sun, and the"},{"startTime":85.722,"endTime":89.182,"body":"oceans are covered in ice, so there's"},{"startTime":89.182,"endTime":91.262,"body":"no chance for light to enter there."},{"startTime":91.522,"endTime":95.222,"body":"So an ecosystem on a planet like"},{"startTime":91.522,"endTime":95.222,"body":"Europa, for example, would need"},{"startTime":95.222,"endTime":96.732,"body":"to work without photosynthesis."},{"startTime":96.782,"endTime":98.992,"body":"So this is one of the topics"},{"startTime":96.782,"endTime":98.992,"body":"that we're talking about."},{"startTime":99.022,"endTime":102.802,"body":"I love all the topics we talk about, but"},{"startTime":99.022,"endTime":102.802,"body":"this is one that's actually, I think,"},{"startTime":102.802,"endTime":105.672,"body":"fairly important, especially as we"},{"startTime":102.802,"endTime":105.672,"body":"look for life in the universe, because"},{"startTime":106.062,"endTime":110.032,"body":"this might be the mechanism by which"},{"startTime":106.062,"endTime":110.032,"body":"life in our own solar system operates."},{"startTime":110.207,"endTime":113.64,"body":"it is interesting to think about how"},{"startTime":110.207,"endTime":113.64,"body":"Europa, the way that it is in that"},{"startTime":113.64,"endTime":116.72,"body":"violent gravity well, there's a lot"},{"startTime":113.64,"endTime":116.72,"body":"of energy to be harvested there."},{"startTime":117.08,"endTime":121.24,"body":"And only because we are familiar"},{"startTime":117.08,"endTime":121.24,"body":"with photosynthesis because we"},{"startTime":121.24,"endTime":124.06,"body":"get all that active sunlight, and"},{"startTime":121.24,"endTime":124.06,"body":"it is probably the most readily"},{"startTime":124.06,"endTime":125.74,"body":"available for life on our planet."},{"startTime":125.797,"endTime":129.167,"body":"On a planet like Europa, , in"},{"startTime":125.797,"endTime":129.167,"body":"Jake's example, that stretching"},{"startTime":129.167,"endTime":133.187,"body":"of everything could cause a lot of"},{"startTime":129.167,"endTime":133.187,"body":"energy to be transferred, and there's"},{"startTime":133.197,"endTime":134.467,"body":"nothing taking advantage of it."},{"startTime":134.557,"endTime":137.117,"body":"So if there was something under"},{"startTime":134.557,"endTime":137.117,"body":"the water, it would be free"},{"startTime":137.117,"endTime":139.503,"body":"game for producing, , nutrients."},{"startTime":139.573,"endTime":140.533,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"startTime":140.813,"endTime":143.883,"body":"Now, I do kinda wanna set the stage on"},{"startTime":140.813,"endTime":143.883,"body":"this episode a little bit too before"},{"startTime":143.883,"endTime":146.913,"body":"we dive into what it will look like,"},{"startTime":143.883,"endTime":146.913,"body":"because I think there are some important"},{"startTime":146.923,"endTime":148.663,"body":"notes and caveats with this topic."},{"startTime":148.973,"endTime":153.323,"body":"For one, I don't think you're going to"},{"startTime":148.973,"endTime":153.323,"body":"ever have a situation where a planet"},{"startTime":153.333,"endTime":157.846,"body":"has abundant solar energy like Earth,"},{"startTime":153.333,"endTime":157.846,"body":"and life doesn't evolve photosynthesis."},{"startTime":158.496,"endTime":159.676,"body":"I just don't think that's viable."},{"startTime":159.833,"endTime":162.473,"body":"The reason being is it looks"},{"startTime":159.833,"endTime":162.473,"body":"like photosynthesis has evolved"},{"startTime":162.493,"endTime":166.293,"body":"several different times in Earth,"},{"startTime":162.493,"endTime":166.293,"body":"which means that it's not a huge"},{"startTime":166.343,"endTime":167.693,"body":"evolutionary leap to happen."},{"startTime":168.093,"endTime":171.931,"body":"Also, it's just a monumental"},{"startTime":168.093,"endTime":171.931,"body":"source of energy Our planet gets"},{"startTime":171.981,"endTime":173.881,"body":"so much energy from the sun,"},{"startTime":174.111,"endTime":175.581,"body":"I don't think you're gonna"},{"startTime":174.111,"endTime":175.581,"body":"have a situation where you have"},{"startTime":175.581,"endTime":178.581,"body":"an Earth-like planet and life"},{"startTime":175.581,"endTime":178.581,"body":"doesn't take advantage of the sun."},{"startTime":178.581,"endTime":181.721,"body":"That's not really what I think we're"},{"startTime":178.581,"endTime":181.721,"body":"gonna be talking about or ever really see."},{"startTime":181.929,"endTime":184.789,"body":"I definitely think it'll be geared"},{"startTime":181.929,"endTime":184.789,"body":"more towards planets that would be"},{"startTime":184.789,"endTime":185.149,"body":"kind of"},{"startTime":185.149,"endTime":186.359,"body":"outside of that realm."},{"startTime":186.489,"endTime":186.729,"body":"You know,"},{"startTime":186.729,"endTime":190.469,"body":"like you were saying, on planets like"},{"startTime":186.729,"endTime":190.469,"body":"Europa or planets that are pretty"},{"startTime":190.469,"endTime":194.709,"body":"much blocked out from the sun or don't"},{"startTime":190.469,"endTime":194.709,"body":"have a sun that's putting off as much"},{"startTime":194.709,"endTime":198.189,"body":"sunlight, and it would be more efficient"},{"startTime":194.709,"endTime":198.189,"body":"for them to take those resources"},{"startTime":198.199,"endTime":199.929,"body":"from different energy production."},{"startTime":200.069,"endTime":201.119,"body":"Yeah, I absolutely agree."},{"startTime":201.119,"endTime":201.539,"body":"So when I was"},{"startTime":201.539,"endTime":201.799,"body":"kind of"},{"startTime":201.799,"endTime":205.049,"body":"thinking about what types of situations"},{"startTime":201.799,"endTime":205.049,"body":"would we be finding this type of life,"},{"startTime":205.349,"endTime":208.779,"body":"an obvious example, of course, is Europa,"},{"startTime":205.349,"endTime":208.779,"body":"and these are gonna be icy moons of"},{"startTime":208.779,"endTime":212.259,"body":"gas giants that get a lot of energy"},{"startTime":208.779,"endTime":212.259,"body":"through tidal heating but otherwise"},{"startTime":212.259,"endTime":215.419,"body":"don't get a lot of solar radiation,"},{"startTime":212.259,"endTime":215.419,"body":"and that's one class of planets that"},{"startTime":215.419,"endTime":216.839,"body":"I definitely foresee this happening."},{"startTime":217.219,"endTime":218.219,"body":"Another planet I could"},{"startTime":218.219,"endTime":218.559,"body":"kind of"},{"startTime":218.559,"endTime":221.086,"body":"envision this happening too"},{"startTime":218.559,"endTime":221.086,"body":"is a Venus-like planet that's"},{"startTime":221.096,"endTime":222.286,"body":"further away from the sun."},{"startTime":222.576,"endTime":226.706,"body":"So we know Venus is the hottest planet"},{"startTime":222.576,"endTime":226.706,"body":"in our solar system, and of course that's"},{"startTime":226.716,"endTime":228.316,"body":"just due to the greenhouse effect, right?"},{"startTime":228.316,"endTime":228.436,"body":"Like,"},{"startTime":228.446,"endTime":232.676,"body":"Mercury's closer to the sun, but Venus"},{"startTime":228.446,"endTime":232.676,"body":"has a hotter average temperature because"},{"startTime":232.676,"endTime":233.896,"body":"of all that carbon dioxide and the,"},{"startTime":233.906,"endTime":234.086,"body":"like,"},{"startTime":234.086,"endTime":235.036,"body":"really thick atmosphere."},{"startTime":235.276,"endTime":238.156,"body":"But not a lot of light reaches"},{"startTime":235.276,"endTime":238.156,"body":"the actual planetary surface."},{"startTime":238.536,"endTime":241.806,"body":"So if you had a Venus-like planet"},{"startTime":238.536,"endTime":241.806,"body":"and moved it much further away from"},{"startTime":241.806,"endTime":244.317,"body":"the sun, I think you would eventually"},{"startTime":241.806,"endTime":244.317,"body":"reach a point where the surface"},{"startTime":244.337,"endTime":248.297,"body":"temperature becomes habitable,"},{"startTime":244.337,"endTime":248.297,"body":"but now you have barely any solar"},{"startTime":248.297,"endTime":249.757,"body":"radiation reaching the planet, right?"},{"startTime":249.757,"endTime":249.867,"body":"Like,"},{"startTime":249.867,"endTime":252.837,"body":"this planet's potentially gonna"},{"startTime":249.867,"endTime":252.837,"body":"be further away from its star"},{"startTime":253.107,"endTime":254.267,"body":"than Mars is from our own."},{"startTime":254.267,"endTime":257.187,"body":"It's just that really thick"},{"startTime":254.267,"endTime":257.187,"body":"atmosphere trapping whatever solar"},{"startTime":257.187,"endTime":260.787,"body":"radiation does make it in that's"},{"startTime":257.187,"endTime":260.787,"body":"keeping the planet's surface warm."},{"startTime":261.027,"endTime":264.425,"body":"So not only do you get less solar"},{"startTime":261.027,"endTime":264.425,"body":"radiation because of the distance from"},{"startTime":264.425,"endTime":268.255,"body":"the star, but even if it was closer,"},{"startTime":264.425,"endTime":268.255,"body":"you just have such a thick cloud cover."},{"startTime":268.505,"endTime":271.255,"body":"So maybe you have a situation"},{"startTime":268.505,"endTime":271.255,"body":"where you have Venus-like planets"},{"startTime":271.275,"endTime":274.105,"body":"further away from the sun that have"},{"startTime":271.275,"endTime":274.105,"body":"the right surface temperature for"},{"startTime":274.105,"endTime":276.245,"body":"liquid water, but not any sunlight."},{"startTime":276.405,"endTime":277.595,"body":"That's another type of planet I could"},{"startTime":277.615,"endTime":277.945,"body":"kind of"},{"startTime":277.955,"endTime":279.015,"body":"envision working like this."},{"startTime":279.255,"endTime":279.625,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":279.652,"endTime":282.617,"body":"the last one that would come to"},{"startTime":279.652,"endTime":282.617,"body":"my mind, and I know that there"},{"startTime":282.617,"endTime":283.837,"body":"has been speculation of what"},{"startTime":283.857,"endTime":286.047,"body":"a low-light planet would"},{"startTime":283.857,"endTime":286.047,"body":"look like a red dwarf-"},{"startTime":286.057,"endTime":286.267,"body":"Mm-hmm"},{"startTime":286.267,"endTime":286.897,"body":"for example."},{"startTime":286.917,"endTime":290.187,"body":"The plants would be black 'cause they"},{"startTime":286.917,"endTime":290.187,"body":"would be darker to absorb more light."},{"startTime":290.507,"endTime":294.187,"body":"But maybe on planets even like"},{"startTime":290.507,"endTime":294.187,"body":"that, they could be overthrown by"},{"startTime":294.317,"endTime":297.451,"body":"perhaps a more efficient, energy"},{"startTime":294.317,"endTime":297.451,"body":"type that could be on a planet."},{"startTime":297.461,"endTime":300.651,"body":"Let's say it's a water planet"},{"startTime":297.461,"endTime":300.651,"body":"orbiting around a red dwarf."},{"startTime":300.887,"endTime":304.337,"body":"Perhaps, , something would completely"},{"startTime":300.887,"endTime":304.337,"body":"take over that ecosystem because"},{"startTime":304.337,"endTime":307.827,"body":"it just wouldn't be as efficient as"},{"startTime":304.337,"endTime":307.827,"body":"photosynthesis, and maybe there would be"},{"startTime":307.827,"endTime":312.347,"body":"small pockets of things that use it there,"},{"startTime":307.827,"endTime":312.347,"body":"but the actual base of all the food chains"},{"startTime":312.347,"endTime":314.387,"body":"would be a different type of production."},{"startTime":314.547,"endTime":317.967,"body":"Yeah, red dwarfs are also an interesting"},{"startTime":314.547,"endTime":317.967,"body":"one because we think that for"},{"startTime":317.977,"endTime":322.607,"body":"planets to exist in a red dwarf, to"},{"startTime":317.977,"endTime":322.607,"body":"be in the habitable zone, the issue"},{"startTime":322.607,"endTime":322.867,"body":"is,"},{"startTime":322.867,"endTime":325.517,"body":"is that red dwarfs are so"},{"startTime":322.867,"endTime":325.517,"body":"small, and relatively speaking,"},{"startTime":325.517,"endTime":325.717,"body":"they're,"},{"startTime":325.762,"endTime":326.634,"body":"cooler stars."},{"startTime":326.894,"endTime":327.054,"body":"So"},{"startTime":327.054,"endTime":330.234,"body":","},{"startTime":327.054,"endTime":330.234,"body":"The habitable zone is actually so"},{"startTime":330.234,"endTime":333.764,"body":"gonna become tidally locked, and that"},{"startTime":330.234,"endTime":333.764,"body":"presents an issue because if you have"},{"startTime":333.764,"endTime":337.194,"body":"a tidally locked planet around a red"},{"startTime":333.764,"endTime":337.194,"body":"dwarf, which is, again, how close you"},{"startTime":337.194,"endTime":340.377,"body":"need to be to get adequate sunlight"},{"startTime":337.194,"endTime":340.377,"body":"to be in that liquid water range,"},{"startTime":340.677,"endTime":344.307,"body":"what ends up happening is that the"},{"startTime":340.677,"endTime":344.307,"body":"one side of the planet is absolutely"},{"startTime":344.307,"endTime":345.807,"body":"baked by solar radiation, right?"},{"startTime":345.817,"endTime":346.007,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":346.007,"endTime":347.427,"body":"It's kinda like a Mercury-type situation."},{"startTime":347.747,"endTime":350.987,"body":"And then the other side, which is"},{"startTime":347.747,"endTime":350.987,"body":"facing away from the star, is frigid."},{"startTime":351.027,"endTime":352.617,"body":"There's no solar energy getting it."},{"startTime":352.627,"endTime":355.931,"body":"So when we talk about- planets and"},{"startTime":352.627,"endTime":355.931,"body":"life around red dwarf stars, and even"},{"startTime":355.931,"endTime":359.111,"body":"in our episode where we talked about"},{"startTime":355.931,"endTime":359.111,"body":"this concept, we usually talk about"},{"startTime":359.111,"endTime":363.077,"body":"life living in the equatorial band,"},{"startTime":359.111,"endTime":363.077,"body":"uh, that twilight zone, between the"},{"startTime":363.077,"endTime":365.977,"body":"light and the dark side, and we think"},{"startTime":363.077,"endTime":365.977,"body":"that would be the habitable area."},{"startTime":366.207,"endTime":369.477,"body":"But if you start thinking about how life"},{"startTime":366.207,"endTime":369.477,"body":"could function without photosynthesis,"},{"startTime":369.707,"endTime":371.127,"body":"You get a lot more opportunities."},{"startTime":371.137,"endTime":374.017,"body":"For one, there's a potential the"},{"startTime":371.137,"endTime":374.017,"body":"planet could be a little further away."},{"startTime":374.201,"endTime":376.581,"body":"and even if it couldn't, that's"},{"startTime":374.201,"endTime":376.581,"body":"fine, because you are also"},{"startTime":376.581,"endTime":376.901,"body":"kind of"},{"startTime":376.901,"endTime":380.521,"body":"unlocking a little bit more of that"},{"startTime":376.901,"endTime":380.521,"body":"planet where life could exist, right?"},{"startTime":380.521,"endTime":380.741,"body":"Like,"},{"startTime":380.741,"endTime":384.021,"body":"maybe you could have situations where"},{"startTime":380.741,"endTime":384.021,"body":"convection currents from the hot side"},{"startTime":384.021,"endTime":387.727,"body":"and the cool side create a larger"},{"startTime":384.021,"endTime":387.727,"body":"band where liquid water can exist-"},{"startTime":387.747,"endTime":387.807,"body":"Mm-hmm"},{"startTime":387.807,"endTime":388.827,"body":"but never see sunlight."},{"startTime":389.097,"endTime":389.327,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":389.437,"endTime":390.087,"body":"Or if it's,"},{"startTime":390.107,"endTime":391.877,"body":"A water planet, that's"},{"startTime":390.107,"endTime":391.877,"body":"also really interesting."},{"startTime":392.021,"endTime":395.964,"body":"It would be tricky, because, an issue"},{"startTime":392.021,"endTime":395.964,"body":"with planets orbiting red dwarf stars"},{"startTime":395.964,"endTime":398.957,"body":"is atmospheric stripping, but there is"},{"startTime":395.964,"endTime":398.957,"body":"some orbital mechanics that can happen."},{"startTime":399.217,"endTime":402.187,"body":"Maybe a planet moves in toward its"},{"startTime":399.217,"endTime":402.187,"body":"star once the star's kinda cooled"},{"startTime":402.187,"endTime":403.947,"body":"down, so that is definitely possible."},{"startTime":404.247,"endTime":405.307,"body":"And for a planet like"},{"startTime":405.307,"endTime":405.617,"body":"that,"},{"startTime":405.627,"endTime":407.637,"body":"that would actually be interesting,"},{"startTime":405.627,"endTime":407.637,"body":"'cause you would have much more"},{"startTime":407.637,"endTime":408.707,"body":"of that convection current."},{"startTime":408.717,"endTime":409.107,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":409.117,"endTime":412.267,"body":"So you might actually potentially"},{"startTime":409.117,"endTime":412.267,"body":"have a lot of liquid water, and end up"},{"startTime":412.297,"endTime":412.767,"body":"kind of"},{"startTime":412.767,"endTime":415.821,"body":"like we were talking about with that,"},{"startTime":412.767,"endTime":415.821,"body":"phase where you have, an ice-capped"},{"startTime":415.831,"endTime":420.011,"body":"portion that's safe from the star,"},{"startTime":415.831,"endTime":420.011,"body":"but also doesn't get any sunlight."},{"startTime":420.191,"endTime":420.531,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":420.651,"endTime":424.277,"body":"Or it would produce incredibly"},{"startTime":420.651,"endTime":424.277,"body":"violent currents, dragging that water"},{"startTime":424.277,"endTime":427.356,"body":"around the planet you would see a"},{"startTime":424.277,"endTime":427.356,"body":"band, but it would be larger than"},{"startTime":427.356,"endTime":430.636,"body":"what you would think, because those"},{"startTime":427.356,"endTime":430.636,"body":"are meshing more and more together."},{"startTime":430.662,"endTime":433.923,"body":"And you can even have planets, too, that"},{"startTime":430.662,"endTime":433.923,"body":"have a lot of energy in other forms,"},{"startTime":433.923,"endTime":437.363,"body":"if you have a planet orbiting a, a"},{"startTime":433.923,"endTime":437.363,"body":"star that's emitting a lot of gamma"},{"startTime":437.363,"endTime":439.453,"body":"radiation, that could be an example."},{"startTime":439.453,"endTime":443.203,"body":"Or maybe you have a star that's actually"},{"startTime":439.453,"endTime":443.203,"body":"orbiting a black hole, where there isn't"},{"startTime":443.253,"endTime":446.503,"body":"a lot of visible light, but maybe there"},{"startTime":443.253,"endTime":446.503,"body":"is, again, a lot of gamma radiation."},{"startTime":446.773,"endTime":449.743,"body":"So you don't have the ability for"},{"startTime":446.773,"endTime":449.743,"body":"life to really usefully take care of"},{"startTime":449.743,"endTime":452.693,"body":"photosynthesis, but maybe it can work"},{"startTime":449.743,"endTime":452.693,"body":"through a different process and actually"},{"startTime":452.703,"endTime":455.923,"body":"harvest that, that radioactivity,"},{"startTime":452.703,"endTime":455.923,"body":"which is definitely something we're"},{"startTime":455.923,"endTime":456.933,"body":"gonna be talking about in a bit."},{"startTime":456.943,"endTime":457.643,"body":"Kind of a spoiler."},{"startTime":457.753,"endTime":458.193,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":458.203,"endTime":459.263,"body":"yeah, just a little sneak peek."},{"startTime":460.406,"endTime":462.946,"body":"So I think that's a good setup for"},{"startTime":460.406,"endTime":462.946,"body":"the type of planets we can see."},{"startTime":462.956,"endTime":462.976,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":462.986,"endTime":464.686,"body":"Which is definitely important, 'cause"},{"startTime":464.768,"endTime":466.886,"body":"I know I reiterated it, but photosynthesis"},{"startTime":466.946,"endTime":470.103,"body":"It's a very overpowered ability,"},{"startTime":466.946,"endTime":470.103,"body":"and There's just no way life"},{"startTime":470.103,"endTime":470.993,"body":"wouldn't take advantage of it."},{"startTime":471.003,"endTime":473.913,"body":"So we are talking about kinda oddball"},{"startTime":471.003,"endTime":473.913,"body":"planets, But definitely, I think,"},{"startTime":473.923,"endTime":476.503,"body":"interesting 'cause it opens up the"},{"startTime":473.923,"endTime":476.503,"body":"doors for life in a lot of places"},{"startTime":476.513,"endTime":477.943,"body":"that we might not first consider."},{"startTime":478.023,"endTime":479.743,"body":"And for me, that's exciting."},{"startTime":479.743,"endTime":480.203,"body":"I like that."},{"startTime":480.373,"endTime":481.583,"body":"it really allows for you to"},{"startTime":481.663,"endTime":481.943,"body":"sort of"},{"startTime":481.953,"endTime":483.253,"body":"broaden those horizons."},{"startTime":483.375,"endTime":486.035,"body":"A lot of the times we speculate"},{"startTime":483.375,"endTime":486.035,"body":"about what the first life could"},{"startTime":486.035,"endTime":488.725,"body":"be on planets, and we always think"},{"startTime":486.035,"endTime":488.725,"body":"of plants, but what if it's not?"},{"startTime":488.741,"endTime":488.991,"body":"Yeah,"},{"startTime":488.991,"endTime":492.511,"body":"so even on Earth we don't really"},{"startTime":488.991,"endTime":492.511,"body":"know if life formed around geothermal"},{"startTime":492.511,"endTime":494.371,"body":"vents first or tidal pools first."},{"startTime":494.381,"endTime":494.411,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":494.421,"endTime":494.971,"body":"You know, we've,"},{"startTime":494.971,"endTime":496.011,"body":"we've done some statistics."},{"startTime":496.011,"endTime":498.351,"body":"We seem to think that it"},{"startTime":496.011,"endTime":498.351,"body":"was probably tidal pools."},{"startTime":498.651,"endTime":501.491,"body":"That's more likely, but that doesn't"},{"startTime":498.651,"endTime":501.491,"body":"mean that the less likely option"},{"startTime":501.491,"endTime":503.261,"body":"didn't just happen anyways, right?"},{"startTime":503.261,"endTime":505.511,"body":"We don't really know, and I don't"},{"startTime":503.261,"endTime":505.511,"body":"think we have a lot of evidence"},{"startTime":505.521,"endTime":507.111,"body":"for it one way or another."},{"startTime":507.371,"endTime":511.001,"body":"So even on Earth, the first life probably"},{"startTime":507.371,"endTime":511.001,"body":"wasn't solar powered, and it's very"},{"startTime":511.001,"endTime":515.671,"body":"possible that it expanded from geothermal"},{"startTime":511.001,"endTime":515.671,"body":"vents, which is, I think, very fascinating"},{"startTime":515.671,"endTime":517.441,"body":","},{"startTime":515.671,"endTime":517.441,"body":"And that just shows how possible this is."},{"startTime":517.511,"endTime":518.671,"body":"Yeah, it definitely does."},{"startTime":518.711,"endTime":521.401,"body":"If the basis of our life"},{"startTime":518.711,"endTime":521.401,"body":"started from something that,"},{"startTime":521.476,"endTime":524.646,"body":"was an alternate form of energy,"},{"startTime":521.476,"endTime":524.646,"body":"then why couldn't it happen"},{"startTime":524.646,"endTime":525.656,"body":"on other planets as well?"},{"startTime":525.731,"endTime":528.741,"body":"Which kinda brings us up into, I think,"},{"startTime":525.731,"endTime":528.741,"body":"one of the first ways, of course,"},{"startTime":528.751,"endTime":533.301,"body":"that we are gonna talk about how"},{"startTime":528.751,"endTime":533.301,"body":"life can exist without solar energy,"},{"startTime":533.351,"endTime":536.411,"body":"it's one of the ways we actually see"},{"startTime":533.351,"endTime":536.411,"body":"here on Earth, which is that life"},{"startTime":536.411,"endTime":538.151,"body":"can take advantage of chemosynthesis."},{"startTime":538.481,"endTime":538.711,"body":"You know,"},{"startTime":538.711,"endTime":539.831,"body":"if photosynthesis is"},{"startTime":539.831,"endTime":540.181,"body":"the,"},{"startTime":540.268,"endTime":543.368,"body":"process by which you harvest photons"},{"startTime":540.268,"endTime":543.368,"body":"from the sun and turn that into energy,"},{"startTime":543.368,"endTime":546.808,"body":"then you can imagine chemosynthesis is"},{"startTime":543.368,"endTime":546.808,"body":"the same, but you're taking advantage"},{"startTime":546.828,"endTime":550.568,"body":"of the actual chemical potential energy"},{"startTime":546.828,"endTime":550.568,"body":"stored through chemical reactions."},{"startTime":550.668,"endTime":555.568,"body":"And this is, like I said, something"},{"startTime":550.668,"endTime":555.568,"body":"we see on Earth in these undersea,"},{"startTime":555.808,"endTime":558.398,"body":"really deep, hydrothermal vents, where"},{"startTime":555.808,"endTime":558.398,"body":"they're taking advantage of these"},{"startTime":558.398,"endTime":561.588,"body":"sulfur compounds, breaking them apart,"},{"startTime":558.398,"endTime":561.588,"body":"and then harvesting that energy."},{"startTime":561.928,"endTime":563.398,"body":"So that's certainly something we could see"},{"startTime":563.398,"endTime":563.638,"body":"and,"},{"startTime":563.638,"endTime":565.988,"body":"and that's how we speculate"},{"startTime":563.638,"endTime":565.988,"body":"life might exist on Europa."},{"startTime":566.075,"endTime":569.025,"body":"it would definitely make sense since"},{"startTime":566.075,"endTime":569.025,"body":"they have frozen oceans that could be"},{"startTime":569.025,"endTime":569.965,"body":"Very deep there."},{"startTime":570.105,"endTime":572.605,"body":"These geothermal vents"},{"startTime":570.105,"endTime":572.605,"body":"would actually be perfect"},{"startTime":572.652,"endTime":575.781,"body":"because of the tidal pull and the"},{"startTime":572.652,"endTime":575.781,"body":"gravitational pull on the planet"},{"startTime":575.781,"endTime":577.301,"body":"stretching and bending it, it would have"},{"startTime":577.311,"endTime":577.591,"body":"very,"},{"startTime":577.591,"endTime":582.311,"body":"very active tectonic plates- So that would"},{"startTime":577.591,"endTime":582.311,"body":"cause a lot of, pressure to be created"},{"startTime":582.321,"endTime":585.911,"body":"and a lot of release of these sulfur"},{"startTime":582.321,"endTime":585.911,"body":"compounds through these geothermal vents."},{"startTime":585.921,"endTime":589.251,"body":"It could be an entirely sprawling"},{"startTime":585.921,"endTime":589.251,"body":"ecosystem under there for all we know,"},{"startTime":589.291,"endTime":591.061,"body":"and that would be the base of their life."},{"startTime":591.101,"endTime":593.811,"body":"Yeah, absolutely possible, and I"},{"startTime":591.101,"endTime":593.811,"body":"think this is gonna be true for"},{"startTime":593.811,"endTime":595.211,"body":"pretty much any ice-capped planet."},{"startTime":595.241,"endTime":598.161,"body":"This would be likely a large"},{"startTime":595.241,"endTime":598.161,"body":"source of energy for those planets."},{"startTime":598.201,"endTime":600.971,"body":"It's really the only source,"},{"startTime":598.201,"endTime":600.971,"body":"and it's not the only way we see"},{"startTime":600.971,"endTime":602.581,"body":"chemosynthesis on Earth, actually."},{"startTime":602.621,"endTime":606.191,"body":"There are some bacteria that live really"},{"startTime":602.621,"endTime":606.191,"body":"deep, like under the surface in the"},{"startTime":606.191,"endTime":610.054,"body":"crust of Earth, they basically eat rocks,"},{"startTime":606.191,"endTime":610.054,"body":"which is I also think very fascinating."},{"startTime":610.074,"endTime":613.731,"body":"And we didn't expect to find life,"},{"startTime":610.074,"endTime":613.731,"body":"that deep underneath the crust, but"},{"startTime":613.741,"endTime":617.091,"body":"we have actually found bacteria  that,"},{"startTime":613.741,"endTime":617.091,"body":"again, work through chemosynthesis"},{"startTime":617.441,"endTime":619.441,"body":"using iron compounds, to live."},{"startTime":619.468,"endTime":623.574,"body":"So The chemosynthesis could be not just"},{"startTime":619.468,"endTime":623.574,"body":"these underwater hydrothermal vents,"},{"startTime":623.574,"endTime":624.934,"body":"but maybe some other places, too."},{"startTime":625.144,"endTime":626.604,"body":"I actually didn't, I didn't know that."},{"startTime":626.684,"endTime":628.044,"body":"Yeah, it's really crazy."},{"startTime":628.044,"endTime":630.474,"body":"They… Yeah, it's absolutely crazy."},{"startTime":630.774,"endTime":633.194,"body":"I think they found it, there was this,"},{"startTime":630.774,"endTime":633.194,"body":"I think it's in Russia, it's this,"},{"startTime":633.194,"endTime":633.294,"body":"like,"},{"startTime":633.304,"endTime":634.394,"body":"really deep borehole,"},{"startTime":634.554,"endTime":637.184,"body":"it's almost a mile deep, and they"},{"startTime":634.554,"endTime":637.184,"body":"still found bacteria, and it's,"},{"startTime":637.184,"endTime":638.284,"body":"it's really hot, too."},{"startTime":638.324,"endTime":638.574,"body":"I think it's,"},{"startTime":638.574,"endTime":638.834,"body":"like,"},{"startTime":639.834,"endTime":641.939,"body":"130 degrees Fahrenheit or"},{"startTime":639.834,"endTime":641.939,"body":"140 degrees Fahrenheit."},{"startTime":641.939,"endTime":642.298,"body":"and then you've"},{"startTime":642.298,"endTime":646.064,"body":"got these extremophiles eating iron"},{"startTime":642.298,"endTime":646.064,"body":"and living in these high temperatures."},{"startTime":646.074,"endTime":648.604,"body":"It's absolutely- Yeah … crazy"},{"startTime":646.074,"endTime":648.604,"body":"that life managed to make that work."},{"startTime":648.724,"endTime":652.104,"body":"Has to be hot for them to soften"},{"startTime":648.724,"endTime":652.104,"body":"up their food a little bit."},{"startTime":652.104,"endTime":652.124,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":652.134,"endTime":653.014,"body":"My God."},{"startTime":653.014,"endTime":653.494,"body":"The rocks?"},{"startTime":653.544,"endTime":653.664,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":654.684,"endTime":655.344,"body":"Just some rocks."},{"startTime":655.379,"endTime":655.643,"body":"what is"},{"startTime":655.643,"endTime":655.908,"body":"that,"},{"startTime":655.919,"endTime":658.539,"body":"population that you can"},{"startTime":655.919,"endTime":658.539,"body":"play on Stellaris where"},{"startTime":658.589,"endTime":659.789,"body":"You are rock people?"},{"startTime":659.839,"endTime":660.729,"body":"I have no idea."},{"startTime":660.739,"endTime":661.769,"body":"God, it reminds me of those."},{"startTime":661.779,"endTime":662.619,"body":"I'm trying to think of the name."},{"startTime":663.129,"endTime":663.869,"body":"It doesn't matter."},{"startTime":664.099,"endTime":665.019,"body":"That is insane."},{"startTime":665.059,"endTime":665.339,"body":"I mean,"},{"startTime":665.349,"endTime":668.789,"body":"harvesting chemical compounds makes"},{"startTime":665.349,"endTime":668.789,"body":"sense, but, being able to pull it"},{"startTime":668.789,"endTime":673.969,"body":"from something that's so non-energy"},{"startTime":668.789,"endTime":673.969,"body":"dense as rocks or iron is crazy."},{"startTime":673.984,"endTime":674.194,"body":"yeah."},{"startTime":674.194,"endTime":675.544,"body":"It's like the last"},{"startTime":674.194,"endTime":675.544,"body":"thing you think of food."},{"startTime":675.544,"endTime":676.774,"body":"I think rocks as food is just,"},{"startTime":676.774,"endTime":677.024,"body":"like, the,"},{"startTime":677.064,"endTime":680.454,"body":"joke 'cause it's like, what could you"},{"startTime":677.064,"endTime":680.454,"body":"think of that's less food than rocks?"},{"startTime":680.454,"endTime":682.801,"body":"But those bacteria, it's hold my rock."},{"startTime":682.876,"endTime":683.186,"body":"I mean,"},{"startTime":683.186,"endTime":686.586,"body":"at that point, you're pretty much"},{"startTime":683.186,"endTime":686.586,"body":"saying life could exist anywhere."},{"startTime":686.646,"endTime":687.846,"body":"Yeah, it's very possible."},{"startTime":687.856,"endTime":687.876,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":687.886,"endTime":688.886,"body":"As long as it isn't,"},{"startTime":688.956,"endTime":692.336,"body":"So horribly violent that it kills them."},{"startTime":692.386,"endTime":694.216,"body":"And not even the most extreme we've seen."},{"startTime":694.226,"endTime":698.316,"body":"There's actually a, I think it's a slime"},{"startTime":694.226,"endTime":698.316,"body":"mold, but it's definitely some form of"},{"startTime":698.326,"endTime":704.806,"body":"bacteria that exists in the radioactive"},{"startTime":698.326,"endTime":704.806,"body":"rooms in Chernobyl, and it actually feeds"},{"startTime":704.816,"endTime":707.416,"body":"off of the gamma radiation coming from"},{"startTime":707.426,"endTime":708.566,"body":"The broken down core."},{"startTime":708.766,"endTime":711.226,"body":"And they found that it uses"},{"startTime":708.766,"endTime":711.226,"body":"melanin, which is the stuff that"},{"startTime":711.226,"endTime":712.536,"body":"causes your skin to have pigment."},{"startTime":712.536,"endTime":716.126,"body":"It basically uses that to"},{"startTime":712.536,"endTime":716.126,"body":"harvest gamma radiation"},{"startTime":716.126,"endTime":716.326,"body":"and,"},{"startTime":716.326,"endTime":719.416,"body":"and uses that as a food source,"},{"startTime":716.326,"endTime":719.416,"body":"which is just absolutely crazy."},{"startTime":719.603,"endTime":722.933,"body":"it is really crazy to think"},{"startTime":719.603,"endTime":722.933,"body":"about because that it is quite"},{"startTime":722.933,"endTime":724.96,"body":"abundant as well in those areas."},{"startTime":724.96,"endTime":725.699,"body":"you can see"},{"startTime":725.749,"endTime":726.059,"body":"the,"},{"startTime":726.069,"endTime":726.749,"body":"the sheets of it."},{"startTime":726.749,"endTime":731.853,"body":"And this organism either formed after"},{"startTime":726.749,"endTime":731.853,"body":"Chernobyl happened to be effective that"},{"startTime":731.853,"endTime":735.807,"body":"way, or- Was it already an organism"},{"startTime":731.853,"endTime":735.807,"body":"that existed that was able to just"},{"startTime":735.967,"endTime":738.247,"body":"detect this and start feeding off of it?"},{"startTime":738.317,"endTime":741.377,"body":"I assume it was through"},{"startTime":738.317,"endTime":741.377,"body":"selective breeding, right?"},{"startTime":741.377,"endTime":741.657,"body":"Like,"},{"startTime":741.677,"endTime":743.701,"body":"there's actually a"},{"startTime":741.677,"endTime":743.701,"body":"really interesting video."},{"startTime":743.701,"endTime":744.821,"body":"You can find it on YouTube."},{"startTime":744.821,"endTime":746.951,"body":"I think it was Stanford"},{"startTime":744.821,"endTime":746.951,"body":"University, don't quote me on that."},{"startTime":747.231,"endTime":747.361,"body":"But"},{"startTime":747.361,"endTime":747.498,"body":"they,"},{"startTime":747.498,"endTime":751.207,"body":"took some bacteria and put it in"},{"startTime":747.498,"endTime":751.207,"body":"an agar dish where each band had"},{"startTime":751.207,"endTime":751.987,"body":"a- an increasing"},{"startTime":752.027,"endTime":753.322,"body":"amount of antibiotic."},{"startTime":753.322,"endTime":757.411,"body":"like, no antibiotic, 1x"},{"startTime":753.322,"endTime":757.411,"body":"antibiotic, 10, 100, 1,000, 10,000."},{"startTime":757.451,"endTime":757.831,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":757.871,"endTime":761.791,"body":"And just through selective breeding,"},{"startTime":757.871,"endTime":761.791,"body":"bacteria slowly made its way and became"},{"startTime":761.791,"endTime":763.371,"body":"resistant all the way up to the 1,000."},{"startTime":763.381,"endTime":763.531,"body":"So"},{"startTime":763.531,"endTime":763.631,"body":"I,"},{"startTime":763.661,"endTime":766.621,"body":"I'm wondering if it's a situation"},{"startTime":763.661,"endTime":766.621,"body":"like that, where you have,"},{"startTime":767.051,"endTime":767.321,"body":"you know,"},{"startTime":767.321,"endTime":770.401,"body":"effectively this brand-new"},{"startTime":767.321,"endTime":770.401,"body":"ecological niche opening up."},{"startTime":770.401,"endTime":772.971,"body":"You- you have this"},{"startTime":770.401,"endTime":772.971,"body":"melted-down radioactive zone."},{"startTime":772.971,"endTime":775.741,"body":"It kills everything else, and you"},{"startTime":772.971,"endTime":775.741,"body":"have bacteria existing right on the,"},{"startTime":775.741,"endTime":775.941,"body":"like"},{"startTime":775.951,"endTime":778.074,"body":"the edge of this, as"},{"startTime":775.951,"endTime":778.074,"body":"close as it can exist."},{"startTime":778.464,"endTime":781.384,"body":"And just through random"},{"startTime":778.464,"endTime":781.384,"body":"selection, slowly becomes"},{"startTime":781.414,"endTime":781.844,"body":"more and"},{"startTime":781.844,"endTime":785.234,"body":"more and more immune to that radiation,"},{"startTime":781.844,"endTime":785.234,"body":"but then also is able to actually"},{"startTime":785.814,"endTime":788.634,"body":"not just withstand the radiation, but"},{"startTime":785.814,"endTime":788.634,"body":"starts treating it like a food source."},{"startTime":788.794,"endTime":790.024,"body":"man, that- that's so interesting."},{"startTime":790.024,"endTime":794.454,"body":"So now this bacteria that's also"},{"startTime":790.024,"endTime":794.454,"body":"feeding off of this radiation,"},{"startTime":794.554,"endTime":796.444,"body":"is it choosing that over,"},{"startTime":796.544,"endTime":797.624,"body":"other processes?"},{"startTime":797.624,"endTime":799.514,"body":"Or, is it doing it out of necessity?"},{"startTime":799.564,"endTime":799.704,"body":"Like,"},{"startTime":799.704,"endTime":801.974,"body":"is it in a dark room with"},{"startTime":799.704,"endTime":801.974,"body":"no other living creatures?"},{"startTime":802.094,"endTime":802.234,"body":"the"},{"startTime":802.234,"endTime":803.164,"body":"elephant's foot, the,"},{"startTime":803.184,"endTime":806.374,"body":"the room it's in is dark, so"},{"startTime":803.184,"endTime":806.374,"body":"there is no other light available."},{"startTime":806.394,"endTime":808.914,"body":"But I think it's also just taking"},{"startTime":806.394,"endTime":808.914,"body":"advantage of an open niche."},{"startTime":808.914,"endTime":810.104,"body":"That's what life does."},{"startTime":810.194,"endTime":810.564,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":810.584,"endTime":811.674,"body":"And so you have this,"},{"startTime":811.681,"endTime":813.761,"body":"open niche that nothing"},{"startTime":811.681,"endTime":813.761,"body":"else is competing in."},{"startTime":814.041,"endTime":816.991,"body":"You have no predators if you move"},{"startTime":814.041,"endTime":816.991,"body":"into this niche, so I think it's"},{"startTime":816.991,"endTime":820.384,"body":"just an opportunistic area where"},{"startTime":816.991,"endTime":820.384,"body":"a bacteria happened to find itself"},{"startTime":820.384,"endTime":823.067,"body":"in the right place at the right"},{"startTime":820.384,"endTime":823.067,"body":"time to evolve and take advantage"},{"startTime":823.067,"endTime":823.537,"body":"Of that."},{"startTime":823.607,"endTime":824.077,"body":"So"},{"startTime":824.112,"endTime":827.404,"body":"I don't think it's a case of"},{"startTime":824.112,"endTime":827.404,"body":"it's denying other food sources."},{"startTime":827.414,"endTime":829.574,"body":"It just specced into a"},{"startTime":827.414,"endTime":829.574,"body":"different path of life."},{"startTime":829.614,"endTime":829.974,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":830.234,"endTime":835.234,"body":"It- it's such a cool real-life, showing of"},{"startTime":830.234,"endTime":835.234,"body":"how a planet with more extreme conditions"},{"startTime":835.234,"endTime":841.004,"body":"could have life that instead of choosing"},{"startTime":835.234,"endTime":841.004,"body":"to fight over resources, just flows into"},{"startTime":841.004,"endTime":843.094,"body":"a niche and just forms its own instead."},{"startTime":843.109,"endTime":844.439,"body":"I know I mentioned this when we…"},{"startTime":844.449,"endTime":846.799,"body":"We did an extreme life"},{"startTime":844.449,"endTime":846.799,"body":"episode a while back, but"},{"startTime":846.799,"endTime":846.979,"body":"I,"},{"startTime":846.979,"endTime":849.089,"body":"I mentioned and I gave an example"},{"startTime":846.979,"endTime":849.089,"body":"where you might actually have a"},{"startTime":849.089,"endTime":852.629,"body":"planet orbiting a black hole  where"},{"startTime":849.089,"endTime":852.629,"body":"the accretion disk produces a lot"},{"startTime":852.629,"endTime":855.969,"body":"of gamma radiation, but not a lot of"},{"startTime":852.629,"endTime":855.969,"body":"visible light, at least not as much as,"},{"startTime":855.969,"endTime":859.569,"body":"A star, especially 'cause you have"},{"startTime":855.969,"endTime":859.569,"body":"to be further away from it to even"},{"startTime":859.579,"endTime":861.189,"body":"have a remote chance of life, right?"},{"startTime":861.189,"endTime":864.359,"body":"so maybe this could be an energy"},{"startTime":861.189,"endTime":864.359,"body":"source for life on planets like that,"},{"startTime":864.421,"endTime":868.126,"body":"especially if you have a water world"},{"startTime":864.421,"endTime":868.126,"body":"where the water offers some type of"},{"startTime":868.126,"endTime":871.976,"body":"shielding to the gamma radiation, so you"},{"startTime":868.126,"endTime":871.976,"body":"do get that concentration gradient of"},{"startTime":871.976,"endTime":873.756,"body":"radiation as you go down the water table."},{"startTime":873.804,"endTime":877.792,"body":"that might introduce a way for life to"},{"startTime":873.804,"endTime":877.792,"body":"form in lower radiation areas, and then"},{"startTime":877.792,"endTime":879.452,"body":"maybe slowly evolve and migrate up."},{"startTime":879.482,"endTime":883.242,"body":"And that could be another interesting"},{"startTime":879.482,"endTime":883.242,"body":"basis for a planet that survives on"},{"startTime":883.692,"endTime":885.216,"body":"radiosynthesis instead of photosynthesis."},{"startTime":885.586,"endTime":887.531,"body":"another crazy one that I"},{"startTime":887.531,"endTime":887.801,"body":"kind of"},{"startTime":887.811,"endTime":890.961,"body":"stumbled across this episode, and I'm"},{"startTime":887.811,"endTime":890.961,"body":"not a biologist, so I'm not gonna go"},{"startTime":890.961,"endTime":892.518,"body":"super in depth into the mechanism 'cause"},{"startTime":892.918,"endTime":893.058,"body":"I,"},{"startTime":893.058,"endTime":895.928,"body":"I have to admit my own ignorance"},{"startTime":893.058,"endTime":895.928,"body":"here, but I do think it's fascinating,"},{"startTime":896.031,"endTime":897.761,"body":"which is that bacterium, right?"},{"startTime":897.909,"endTime":898.184,"body":"have"},{"startTime":898.184,"endTime":899.864,"body":"flagella, which are how"},{"startTime":898.184,"endTime":899.864,"body":"they move around, right?"},{"startTime":899.864,"endTime":901.144,"body":"They're like these little, almost looks"},{"startTime":901.144,"endTime":901.464,"body":"like a,"},{"startTime":901.464,"endTime":904.054,"body":"like a long hair that they can"},{"startTime":901.464,"endTime":904.054,"body":"move and wiggle, and that's"},{"startTime":904.054,"endTime":904.954,"body":"how they move themselves."},{"startTime":904.964,"endTime":905.444,"body":"And they're actually,"},{"startTime":905.444,"endTime":907.224,"body":"A really fascinating appendage from,"},{"startTime":907.224,"endTime":909.654,"body":"An evolutionary perspective"},{"startTime":907.224,"endTime":909.654,"body":"for  a lot of reasons."},{"startTime":909.654,"endTime":912.59,"body":"People who were kinda evolutionary"},{"startTime":909.654,"endTime":912.59,"body":"deniers for a long time pointed"},{"startTime":912.59,"endTime":913.81,"body":"to the flagella because it's,"},{"startTime":913.83,"endTime":917.59,"body":"Completely detached and able to spin"},{"startTime":913.83,"endTime":917.59,"body":"360 degrees, and a lot of people"},{"startTime":917.59,"endTime":920.01,"body":"argue that there's no way evolution"},{"startTime":917.59,"endTime":920.01,"body":"can come up with something like that."},{"startTime":920.157,"endTime":922.574,"body":"Of course, it can, and we found"},{"startTime":920.157,"endTime":922.574,"body":"a way that it could happen,"},{"startTime":922.644,"endTime":923.404,"body":"a little bit of a tangent."},{"startTime":923.404,"endTime":924.542,"body":"But the interesting thing,"},{"startTime":924.542,"endTime":924.862,"body":"right,"},{"startTime":925.082,"endTime":928.713,"body":"is they actually use a proton motive"},{"startTime":925.082,"endTime":928.713,"body":"force to spin that little flagella, and"},{"startTime":928.723,"endTime":932.923,"body":"they basically break down ATP, produce"},{"startTime":928.723,"endTime":932.923,"body":"a concentration gradient of protons, and"},{"startTime":932.923,"endTime":936.403,"body":"then that's what causes the flagella to"},{"startTime":932.923,"endTime":936.403,"body":"spin, and that's about my understanding"},{"startTime":936.403,"endTime":938.123,"body":"of that actual chemical mechanism."},{"startTime":938.403,"endTime":939.303,"body":"Not a biochemist."},{"startTime":939.763,"endTime":941.773,"body":"I tried to start a PhD in"},{"startTime":939.763,"endTime":941.773,"body":"biochemistry, it wasn't for me."},{"startTime":942.633,"endTime":943.323,"body":"Lucas was there for that."},{"startTime":944.333,"endTime":947.503,"body":"But that being said, what they found"},{"startTime":944.333,"endTime":947.503,"body":"is that if you actually take those"},{"startTime":947.523,"endTime":951.583,"body":"flagella and you spin them with an"},{"startTime":947.523,"endTime":951.583,"body":"external force, that process works"},{"startTime":951.683,"endTime":955.793,"body":"backwards and they can actually use"},{"startTime":951.683,"endTime":955.793,"body":"that mechanical energy, and produce ATP."},{"startTime":956.313,"endTime":959.523,"body":"And so this actually opens the door"},{"startTime":956.313,"endTime":959.523,"body":"for potentially harvesting mechanical"},{"startTime":959.533,"endTime":962.153,"body":"energy sources to power biological life."},{"startTime":962.353,"endTime":965.663,"body":"Now, as far as I know, we've never"},{"startTime":962.353,"endTime":965.663,"body":"actually found an example of an"},{"startTime":965.673,"endTime":968.493,"body":"organism that actually survives"},{"startTime":965.673,"endTime":968.493,"body":"off of that, cause I imagine,"},{"startTime":968.493,"endTime":969.493,"body":"As far as energy goes, that's,"},{"startTime":969.543,"endTime":970.253,"body":"Gotta be one of"},{"startTime":970.253,"endTime":973.523,"body":"The most inefficient ways to make"},{"startTime":970.253,"endTime":973.523,"body":"energy, but it is a way to make"},{"startTime":973.523,"endTime":976.663,"body":"it, and if you got nothing else,"},{"startTime":973.523,"endTime":976.663,"body":"that might be a viable option."},{"startTime":976.759,"endTime":979.822,"body":"it would essentially work like one of"},{"startTime":976.759,"endTime":979.822,"body":"those old flashlights, you know- Yeah"},{"startTime":979.832,"endTime":981.102,"body":"… the ones where you would crank them."},{"startTime":981.162,"endTime":981.222,"body":"It's"},{"startTime":981.222,"endTime":981.812,"body":"a dynamo."},{"startTime":981.812,"endTime":982.692,"body":"It's an electric generator."},{"startTime":982.692,"endTime":983.222,"body":"Exactly."},{"startTime":983.232,"endTime":986.692,"body":"A biological electric generator,"},{"startTime":983.232,"endTime":986.692,"body":"and it exists on life on Earth."},{"startTime":986.842,"endTime":987.342,"body":"Which is"},{"startTime":987.352,"endTime":989.242,"body":"Really insane because,"},{"startTime":987.352,"endTime":989.242,"body":"like you said before,"},{"startTime":989.242,"endTime":990.695,"body":"cr- being able to create"},{"startTime":990.875,"endTime":994.775,"body":"a free-spinning object that can"},{"startTime":990.875,"endTime":994.775,"body":"generate similar to a windmill or,"},{"startTime":995.065,"endTime":999.165,"body":"A motor, but then you have life that"},{"startTime":995.065,"endTime":999.165,"body":"can dual purpose it into both their mode"},{"startTime":999.165,"endTime":1004.214,"body":"of transportation and then when they"},{"startTime":999.165,"endTime":1004.214,"body":"need it, convert energy into ATP, is"},{"startTime":1004.336,"endTime":1007.792,"body":"really crazy to think how far that"},{"startTime":1004.336,"endTime":1007.792,"body":"could go in optimization and just"},{"startTime":1007.792,"endTime":1009.702,"body":"how absolutely broken it could be in,"},{"startTime":1009.712,"endTime":1009.942,"body":"like,"},{"startTime":1009.942,"endTime":1011.372,"body":"a planet with a lot of motion."},{"startTime":1011.425,"endTime":1013.105,"body":"Yeah, I was thinking of it in terms of,"},{"startTime":1013.105,"endTime":1016.075,"body":"Maybe those red dwarf orbiting"},{"startTime":1013.105,"endTime":1016.075,"body":"planets we were talking about where"},{"startTime":1016.075,"endTime":1019.215,"body":"they have these permanent almost,"},{"startTime":1016.075,"endTime":1019.215,"body":"currents that are continuously flowing."},{"startTime":1019.235,"endTime":1022.985,"body":"I could maybe potentially see"},{"startTime":1019.235,"endTime":1022.985,"body":"life happening there where,"},{"startTime":1023.035,"endTime":1026.065,"body":"You've got these little flagella that are"},{"startTime":1023.035,"endTime":1026.065,"body":"basically flapping in the currents  and"},{"startTime":1026.065,"endTime":1029.115,"body":"generating energy, and maybe that's how"},{"startTime":1026.065,"endTime":1029.115,"body":"they sustain themselves, and maybe that"},{"startTime":1029.115,"endTime":1031.225,"body":"could serve as a basis for a food chain."},{"startTime":1031.531,"endTime":1033.574,"body":"when you think of,"},{"startTime":1031.531,"endTime":1033.574,"body":"creatures that do that now,"},{"startTime":1033.574,"endTime":1033.767,"body":"like,"},{"startTime":1033.808,"endTime":1035.378,"body":"sponges and barnacles that,"},{"startTime":1035.388,"endTime":1035.588,"body":"like,"},{"startTime":1035.588,"endTime":1037.918,"body":"hang their appendages out to catch food."},{"startTime":1038.178,"endTime":1040.688,"body":"But if these were the bottom of the"},{"startTime":1038.178,"endTime":1040.688,"body":"food chain, they could just stick"},{"startTime":1040.688,"endTime":1044.994,"body":"themselves to a hard object in the current"},{"startTime":1040.688,"endTime":1044.994,"body":"and just let the flagella turn, and"},{"startTime":1045.004,"endTime":1048.254,"body":"they would have an infinite power"},{"startTime":1045.004,"endTime":1048.254,"body":"source, whi-which is insane."},{"startTime":1048.314,"endTime":1048.534,"body":"Yeah,"},{"startTime":1048.584,"endTime":1051.034,"body":"I think when you say infinite power"},{"startTime":1048.584,"endTime":1051.034,"body":"source, some people might think,"},{"startTime":1051.034,"endTime":1051.424,"body":"\"Well, that,"},{"startTime":1051.614,"endTime":1053.654,"body":"that kinda nags my brain a"},{"startTime":1051.614,"endTime":1053.654,"body":"little bit 'cause that sounds"},{"startTime":1053.654,"endTime":1054.734,"body":"like it's breaking physics.\" But"},{"startTime":1054.734,"endTime":1054.904,"body":"it's,"},{"startTime":1054.954,"endTime":1056.764,"body":"not any more than photosynthesis is."},{"startTime":1056.994,"endTime":1058.904,"body":"It's not energy from nothing, right?"},{"startTime":1058.914,"endTime":1062.118,"body":"The energy's coming from that planetary"},{"startTime":1058.914,"endTime":1062.118,"body":"motion, which ultimately is coming"},{"startTime":1062.118,"endTime":1063.628,"body":"from nuclear fusion from the star."},{"startTime":1063.736,"endTime":1064.776,"body":"So it's not free energy."},{"startTime":1064.806,"endTime":1067.136,"body":"But it is harvesting energy"},{"startTime":1064.806,"endTime":1067.136,"body":"from your environment, just"},{"startTime":1067.136,"endTime":1068.346,"body":"like how photosynthesis does-"},{"startTime":1068.466,"endTime":1068.566,"body":"Mm-hmm"},{"startTime":1068.586,"endTime":1070.086,"body":"just in a much more interesting way."},{"startTime":1070.191,"endTime":1070.566,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1070.566,"endTime":1073.786,"body":"very different than photosynthesis,"},{"startTime":1070.566,"endTime":1073.786,"body":"but absolutely, , everything"},{"startTime":1073.786,"endTime":1074.746,"body":"starts with our stars."},{"startTime":1074.766,"endTime":1075.416,"body":"Yeah, and I was"},{"startTime":1075.416,"endTime":1075.756,"body":"kind of"},{"startTime":1075.886,"endTime":1078.166,"body":"taking this concept and going"},{"startTime":1075.886,"endTime":1078.166,"body":"a little further with it, and"},{"startTime":1078.286,"endTime":1079.586,"body":"This one does nag my brain."},{"startTime":1079.586,"endTime":1082.076,"body":"I feel like there's gotta be something"},{"startTime":1079.586,"endTime":1082.076,"body":"I'm missing, but I'm gonna put the idea"},{"startTime":1082.076,"endTime":1084.833,"body":"out there anyways, and maybe someone"},{"startTime":1082.076,"endTime":1084.833,"body":"will correct me on why it's wrong."},{"startTime":1084.833,"endTime":1085.613,"body":"But I was thinking,"},{"startTime":1085.676,"endTime":1088.226,"body":"if there's no other energy available"},{"startTime":1085.676,"endTime":1088.226,"body":"and you really have to take advantage"},{"startTime":1088.323,"endTime":1092.05,"body":"of what energy's around you, what"},{"startTime":1088.323,"endTime":1092.05,"body":"if those flagella get small enough"},{"startTime":1092.31,"endTime":1095.12,"body":"that they can actually take advantage"},{"startTime":1092.31,"endTime":1095.12,"body":"of Brownian motion, which is the"},{"startTime":1095.12,"endTime":1098.66,"body":"random basically jiggling of atoms"},{"startTime":1095.12,"endTime":1098.66,"body":"that just happens all the time?"},{"startTime":1098.756,"endTime":1099.596,"body":"And if you had enough"},{"startTime":1099.666,"endTime":1100.046,"body":"really,"},{"startTime":1100.046,"endTime":1102.976,"body":"really tiny flagella, I wonder if"},{"startTime":1100.046,"endTime":1102.976,"body":"it'd be possible for them to just"},{"startTime":1103.096,"endTime":1106.366,"body":"getting bumped around by the moving"},{"startTime":1103.096,"endTime":1106.366,"body":"of the atoms around them could maybe"},{"startTime":1106.366,"endTime":1107.616,"body":"generate a little bit of energy."},{"startTime":1107.66,"endTime":1107.95,"body":"It,"},{"startTime":1107.95,"endTime":1109.15,"body":"it would not be a lot, but"},{"startTime":1109.165,"endTime":1113.29,"body":"if it could, that could be a way for life"},{"startTime":1109.165,"endTime":1113.29,"body":"to not just take advantage of mechanical"},{"startTime":1113.29,"endTime":1115.08,"body":"energy, but thermal energy as well."},{"startTime":1115.28,"endTime":1115.69,"body":"So if you had,"},{"startTime":1115.69,"endTime":1115.79,"body":"like,"},{"startTime":1115.79,"endTime":1117.873,"body":"a really hot planet,"},{"startTime":1115.79,"endTime":1117.873,"body":"maybe that's a way that"},{"startTime":1117.873,"endTime":1120.073,"body":"you could just harvest that"},{"startTime":1117.873,"endTime":1120.073,"body":"energy directly and actually"},{"startTime":1120.073,"endTime":1122.134,"body":"take a-advantage of as well."},{"startTime":1122.307,"endTime":1124.887,"body":"Now, the reason that this kinda"},{"startTime":1122.307,"endTime":1124.887,"body":"nags my brain and I feel like I'm"},{"startTime":1124.897,"endTime":1127.537,"body":"missing something, full disclosure,"},{"startTime":1124.897,"endTime":1127.537,"body":"is when we think about life"},{"startTime":1127.537,"endTime":1128.696,"body":"existing, we usually think of,"},{"startTime":1128.736,"endTime":1131.184,"body":"temperature gradients or energy"},{"startTime":1128.736,"endTime":1131.184,"body":"gradients that it exploits."},{"startTime":1131.213,"endTime":1131.973,"body":"And as far as I can tell, if"},{"startTime":1131.994,"endTime":1134.224,"body":"you're in an environment and"},{"startTime":1131.994,"endTime":1134.224,"body":"everything's the same temperature,"},{"startTime":1134.349,"endTime":1136.369,"body":"it doesn't seem like you should"},{"startTime":1134.349,"endTime":1136.369,"body":"be able to harvest that energy."},{"startTime":1136.369,"endTime":1136.499,"body":"So"},{"startTime":1136.499,"endTime":1138.179,"body":"I do feel like I'm"},{"startTime":1136.499,"endTime":1138.179,"body":"missing something there."},{"startTime":1138.279,"endTime":1138.609,"body":"But"},{"startTime":1138.644,"endTime":1141.404,"body":"I'm wondering if it's possible, and it"},{"startTime":1138.644,"endTime":1141.404,"body":"is interesting to think about if it is."},{"startTime":1141.522,"endTime":1143.292,"body":"it definitely is"},{"startTime":1141.522,"endTime":1143.292,"body":"interesting to think about."},{"startTime":1143.329,"endTime":1145.829,"body":"like you said, it wouldn't"},{"startTime":1143.329,"endTime":1145.829,"body":"be a lot of energy because,"},{"startTime":1145.831,"endTime":1148.266,"body":"the gradients are what cause for the flow-"},{"startTime":1148.346,"endTime":1152.436,"body":"and that's what allows for them to be in"},{"startTime":1148.346,"endTime":1152.436,"body":"the middle of it and harvest such a thing."},{"startTime":1152.791,"endTime":1156.551,"body":"So if they're using Brownian motion,"},{"startTime":1152.791,"endTime":1156.551,"body":"just any atoms bouncing off of them,"},{"startTime":1156.581,"endTime":1161.041,"body":"it would still be occurring, but"},{"startTime":1156.581,"endTime":1161.041,"body":"it would be really cool to see if a"},{"startTime":1161.081,"endTime":1164.721,"body":"creature like that could evolve to"},{"startTime":1161.081,"endTime":1164.721,"body":"become more and more efficient at it."},{"startTime":1164.811,"endTime":1165.321,"body":"Essentially,"},{"startTime":1165.321,"endTime":1165.701,"body":"like, they,"},{"startTime":1165.711,"endTime":1166.331,"body":"they could use,"},{"startTime":1166.371,"endTime":1166.541,"body":"like,"},{"startTime":1166.551,"endTime":1167.751,"body":"giant flaps-"},{"startTime":1167.771,"endTime":1168.783,"body":"to catch these atoms."},{"startTime":1168.783,"endTime":1171.843,"body":"If they could do it, that would by"},{"startTime":1168.783,"endTime":1171.843,"body":"far be the most broken way of living."},{"startTime":1171.908,"endTime":1172.428,"body":"honestly though,"},{"startTime":1172.428,"endTime":1174.391,"body":"You wouldn't want anything"},{"startTime":1172.428,"endTime":1174.391,"body":"too big 'cause the issue is it"},{"startTime":1174.391,"endTime":1175.721,"body":"needs to be bumped by the atoms."},{"startTime":1175.721,"endTime":1177.401,"body":"They get too big and"},{"startTime":1175.721,"endTime":1177.401,"body":"then you kinda lose that."},{"startTime":1177.401,"endTime":1180.041,"body":"But yeah, absolutely, I could definitely"},{"startTime":1177.401,"endTime":1180.041,"body":"see them taking advantage of it"},{"startTime":1180.041,"endTime":1181.481,"body":"from an evolutionary perspective."},{"startTime":1181.601,"endTime":1181.901,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1181.901,"endTime":1184.301,"body":"But yeah, long story short,"},{"startTime":1181.901,"endTime":1184.301,"body":"that's, there's a lot of different"},{"startTime":1184.311,"endTime":1187.001,"body":"interesting ways that life might"},{"startTime":1184.311,"endTime":1187.001,"body":"be able to generate energy."},{"startTime":1187.034,"endTime":1190.094,"body":"But I do now kinda wanna move"},{"startTime":1187.034,"endTime":1190.094,"body":"on just a little bit- Yeah"},{"startTime":1190.244,"endTime":1192.544,"body":"and start talking about what these"},{"startTime":1190.244,"endTime":1192.544,"body":"whole ecosystems would look like."},{"startTime":1192.544,"endTime":1192.674,"body":"'Cause"},{"startTime":1192.674,"endTime":1192.844,"body":"we've,"},{"startTime":1192.844,"endTime":1195.954,"body":"we've put a lot of time into what"},{"startTime":1192.844,"endTime":1195.954,"body":"kind of planets this could exist."},{"startTime":1195.954,"endTime":1197.954,"body":"We put a lot of time in talking"},{"startTime":1195.954,"endTime":1197.954,"body":"about the different mechanisms"},{"startTime":1197.954,"endTime":1198.804,"body":"they could take advantage of."},{"startTime":1199.234,"endTime":1201.621,"body":"But I do kinda wanna"},{"startTime":1199.234,"endTime":1201.621,"body":"think about now what would"},{"startTime":1201.621,"endTime":1201.831,"body":"the,"},{"startTime":1201.863,"endTime":1205.208,"body":"wider ecosystem look like with all of"},{"startTime":1201.863,"endTime":1205.208,"body":"these different energy sources serving"},{"startTime":1205.208,"endTime":1206.708,"body":"as the bases of that food chain?"},{"startTime":1206.826,"endTime":1207.576,"body":"a lot of it I feel"},{"startTime":1207.576,"endTime":1207.756,"body":"like"},{"startTime":1207.756,"endTime":1209.363,"body":"wouldn't be too different."},{"startTime":1209.406,"endTime":1211.216,"body":"some of them would have their specifics."},{"startTime":1211.216,"endTime":1215.489,"body":"If we go back around to , geothermal"},{"startTime":1211.216,"endTime":1215.489,"body":"vents, I could see an ecosystem"},{"startTime":1215.499,"endTime":1217.219,"body":"based around these small pockets."},{"startTime":1217.263,"endTime":1221.553,"body":"as these fissures form, there could"},{"startTime":1217.263,"endTime":1221.553,"body":"be nomadic break-offs of ecosystems"},{"startTime":1221.553,"endTime":1226.167,"body":"that go out and essentially survive"},{"startTime":1221.553,"endTime":1226.167,"body":"by, following currents if it's a water"},{"startTime":1226.167,"endTime":1230.337,"body":"planet, and finding these new areas"},{"startTime":1226.167,"endTime":1230.337,"body":"with plentiful resources to attach to."},{"startTime":1230.427,"endTime":1231.727,"body":"Yeah, I could definitely see that."},{"startTime":1231.737,"endTime":1234.687,"body":"I was thinking about maybe in a"},{"startTime":1231.737,"endTime":1234.687,"body":"planet like Europa, you might actually"},{"startTime":1234.687,"endTime":1237.807,"body":"have bacteria that is able to go,"},{"startTime":1234.687,"endTime":1237.807,"body":"kinda like tardigrades, right?"},{"startTime":1237.807,"endTime":1238.297,"body":"They can go into,"},{"startTime":1238.297,"endTime":1240.817,"body":"like, a state of stasis"},{"startTime":1238.297,"endTime":1240.817,"body":"essentially, right?"},{"startTime":1240.817,"endTime":1240.932,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1240.932,"endTime":1240.989,"body":"Like"},{"startTime":1240.989,"endTime":1241.047,"body":"a,"},{"startTime":1241.047,"endTime":1242.777,"body":"a hibernate dormant s- state."},{"startTime":1242.907,"endTime":1246.017,"body":"And maybe, when they get blown away"},{"startTime":1242.907,"endTime":1246.017,"body":"from the hydrothermal vent, they enter"},{"startTime":1246.017,"endTime":1249.267,"body":"the state, and they float around the"},{"startTime":1246.017,"endTime":1249.267,"body":"ocean for a very long period of time"},{"startTime":1249.267,"endTime":1253.537,"body":"until they maybe are reactivated"},{"startTime":1249.267,"endTime":1253.537,"body":"by temperature, and that's how they"},{"startTime":1253.537,"endTime":1254.957,"body":"colonize and move on to new vents."},{"startTime":1254.957,"endTime":1256.277,"body":"So I could certainly see that."},{"startTime":1256.369,"endTime":1259.047,"body":"but I do disagree with you"},{"startTime":1256.369,"endTime":1259.047,"body":"that it would be similar."},{"startTime":1259.047,"endTime":1262.307,"body":"I think it would be fundamentally"},{"startTime":1259.047,"endTime":1262.307,"body":"different from all of the"},{"startTime":1262.307,"endTime":1264.997,"body":"ecologies here on Earth for a"},{"startTime":1262.307,"endTime":1264.997,"body":"couple of big reasons, actually."},{"startTime":1265.057,"endTime":1265.537,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1265.747,"endTime":1269.967,"body":"For one, your net energy is"},{"startTime":1265.747,"endTime":1269.967,"body":"going to be so much lower."},{"startTime":1270.003,"endTime":1273.093,"body":"you are gonna be in an"},{"startTime":1270.003,"endTime":1273.093,"body":"energy-starved environment."},{"startTime":1273.213,"endTime":1273.513,"body":"Mm."},{"startTime":1273.533,"endTime":1276.533,"body":"And I think the best parallel to what"},{"startTime":1273.533,"endTime":1276.533,"body":"this would be like would be almost,"},{"startTime":1276.533,"endTime":1276.788,"body":"like,"},{"startTime":1276.788,"endTime":1279.658,"body":"The deepest parts of our"},{"startTime":1276.788,"endTime":1279.658,"body":"ocean where there's basically"},{"startTime":1279.658,"endTime":1281.008,"body":"no food, there's no energy."},{"startTime":1281.163,"endTime":1281.775,"body":"but even then,"},{"startTime":1281.785,"endTime":1282.015,"body":"right,"},{"startTime":1282.025,"endTime":1285.245,"body":"even on Earth, the deepest parts"},{"startTime":1282.025,"endTime":1285.245,"body":"of our ocean, most life there"},{"startTime":1285.245,"endTime":1286.568,"body":"forms by taking advantage of,"},{"startTime":1286.588,"endTime":1287.448,"body":"marine snow-"},{"startTime":1287.458,"endTime":1287.478,"body":"Mm-hmm"},{"startTime":1287.478,"endTime":1288.088,"body":"and, like, all of"},{"startTime":1288.088,"endTime":1288.288,"body":"the,"},{"startTime":1288.298,"endTime":1289.865,"body":"the things that fall from the ocean."},{"startTime":1289.865,"endTime":1290.956,"body":"But you wouldn't even have that."},{"startTime":1291.018,"endTime":1292.235,"body":"So you're gonna be in,"},{"startTime":1292.245,"endTime":1292.365,"body":"like,"},{"startTime":1292.375,"endTime":1296.675,"body":"truly a food-starved environment,"},{"startTime":1292.375,"endTime":1296.675,"body":"regardless of what form of energy we're"},{"startTime":1296.675,"endTime":1299.305,"body":"talking about here, chemosynthesis,"},{"startTime":1299.429,"endTime":1299.979,"body":"Especially the,"},{"startTime":1299.979,"endTime":1301.559,"body":"Different types of"},{"startTime":1299.979,"endTime":1301.559,"body":"motion synthesis, right?"},{"startTime":1301.569,"endTime":1303.609,"body":"That's not a ton of available energy."},{"startTime":1303.862,"endTime":1307.153,"body":"So you're gonna end up in an"},{"startTime":1303.862,"endTime":1307.153,"body":"environment that is really slow,"},{"startTime":1307.166,"endTime":1308.906,"body":"you're not gonna have"},{"startTime":1307.166,"endTime":1308.906,"body":"these fast predators."},{"startTime":1308.906,"endTime":1312.226,"body":"A lot of it's gonna be kinda"},{"startTime":1308.906,"endTime":1312.226,"body":"sit and wait, maybe ambush type-"},{"startTime":1312.506,"endTime":1312.806,"body":"Mm-hmm"},{"startTime":1312.806,"endTime":1312.866,"body":"if,"},{"startTime":1312.866,"endTime":1313.736,"body":"if that exists at all."},{"startTime":1313.746,"endTime":1315.776,"body":"Or you might not even"},{"startTime":1313.746,"endTime":1315.776,"body":"really have predation."},{"startTime":1315.963,"endTime":1316.643,"body":"Maybe,"},{"startTime":1316.673,"endTime":1318.493,"body":"Single cellular predation, but the issue"},{"startTime":1318.493,"endTime":1318.713,"body":"is,"},{"startTime":1318.713,"endTime":1322.293,"body":"is every step you move up a food"},{"startTime":1318.713,"endTime":1322.293,"body":"chain, you lose a lot of energy, right?"},{"startTime":1322.343,"endTime":1322.593,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1322.663,"endTime":1324.903,"body":"I think maybe in science"},{"startTime":1322.663,"endTime":1324.903,"body":"class we've all seen that,"},{"startTime":1324.903,"endTime":1325.193,"body":"right,"},{"startTime":1325.193,"endTime":1327.323,"body":"where you have grass and then,"},{"startTime":1325.193,"endTime":1327.323,"body":"the thing eats the grass,"},{"startTime":1327.323,"endTime":1328.323,"body":"you lose 10 times the energy."},{"startTime":1328.393,"endTime":1329.943,"body":"And then the thing eats the"},{"startTime":1328.393,"endTime":1329.943,"body":"thing that eats the grass,"},{"startTime":1329.943,"endTime":1331.223,"body":"and  by the time you get to,"},{"startTime":1331.223,"endTime":1331.383,"body":"like,"},{"startTime":1331.383,"endTime":1331.793,"body":"a cheetah,"},{"startTime":1331.803,"endTime":1332.143,"body":"right,"},{"startTime":1332.173,"endTime":1332.383,"body":"like"},{"startTime":1332.393,"endTime":1335.243,"body":"most of that energy that was harvested"},{"startTime":1332.393,"endTime":1335.243,"body":"by the grass is completely gone."},{"startTime":1335.329,"endTime":1337.939,"body":"And so if you imagine if you're"},{"startTime":1335.329,"endTime":1337.939,"body":"already starting with such a limited"},{"startTime":1337.939,"endTime":1341.619,"body":"source of energy, you're not going"},{"startTime":1337.939,"endTime":1341.619,"body":"to have the ability to get very"},{"startTime":1341.619,"endTime":1343.239,"body":"far away from that initial source."},{"startTime":1343.239,"endTime":1347.379,"body":"So you're not gonna have these huge apex"},{"startTime":1343.239,"endTime":1347.379,"body":"predators, and your food webs are gonna be"},{"startTime":1347.749,"endTime":1351.289,"body":"quite limited, maybe only one or two steps"},{"startTime":1347.749,"endTime":1351.289,"body":"removed from the initial food source."},{"startTime":1351.559,"endTime":1352.959,"body":"It actually, , makes sense."},{"startTime":1352.999,"endTime":1354.369,"body":"if we're thinking of it that way,"},{"startTime":1354.449,"endTime":1354.929,"body":"like, a,"},{"startTime":1354.959,"endTime":1356.849,"body":"a creature kinda like a jellyfish would"},{"startTime":1356.859,"endTime":1357.779,"body":"be top predator."},{"startTime":1357.819,"endTime":1358.063,"body":"yeah."},{"startTime":1358.063,"endTime":1358.913,"body":"Just maybe that's,"},{"startTime":1358.913,"endTime":1359.043,"body":"like,"},{"startTime":1359.043,"endTime":1361.145,"body":"one step removed, where"},{"startTime":1359.043,"endTime":1361.145,"body":"it's harvesting all of"},{"startTime":1361.146,"endTime":1362.506,"body":"the bacteria that's existing."},{"startTime":1362.506,"endTime":1362.536,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1362.536,"endTime":1364.036,"body":"And I was thinking, too, right?"},{"startTime":1364.076,"endTime":1367.546,"body":"I mentioned this idea that you might"},{"startTime":1364.076,"endTime":1367.546,"body":"have bacteria that gets thrown from"},{"startTime":1367.546,"endTime":1371.206,"body":"these hydrothermal vents and then floats"},{"startTime":1367.546,"endTime":1371.206,"body":"around in the ocean to find the new one."},{"startTime":1371.216,"endTime":1374.531,"body":"Maybe that's where you have filter feeders"},{"startTime":1371.216,"endTime":1374.531,"body":"existing and actually trying to harvest"},{"startTime":1374.586,"endTime":1376.156,"body":"these, quote-unquote, \"spores,\" right?"},{"startTime":1376.166,"endTime":1378.706,"body":"And catch them and use"},{"startTime":1376.166,"endTime":1378.706,"body":"them for an energy source."},{"startTime":1378.879,"endTime":1381.099,"body":"it is, very interesting to"},{"startTime":1378.879,"endTime":1381.099,"body":"think about because with that"},{"startTime":1381.099,"endTime":1385.509,"body":"limited source, something that"},{"startTime":1381.099,"endTime":1385.509,"body":"takes a lot of energy is brains."},{"startTime":1385.679,"endTime":1386.049,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1386.139,"endTime":1387.029,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"startTime":1387.034,"endTime":1387.954,"body":"mental power."},{"startTime":1387.974,"endTime":1393.544,"body":"So there could be life that just never"},{"startTime":1387.974,"endTime":1393.544,"body":"chooses to spec into intelligence,"},{"startTime":1393.944,"endTime":1397.154,"body":"and life that could've been around"},{"startTime":1393.944,"endTime":1397.154,"body":"millions of years before us but will"},{"startTime":1397.154,"endTime":1399.604,"body":"never come to our level of advancing."},{"startTime":1399.874,"endTime":1403.604,"body":"And that'll actually probably fall"},{"startTime":1399.874,"endTime":1403.604,"body":"true for most of these energy sources."},{"startTime":1403.714,"endTime":1404.994,"body":"I would absolutely think so, yeah."},{"startTime":1404.994,"endTime":1405.234,"body":"I mean,"},{"startTime":1405.234,"endTime":1407.184,"body":"we see it already on Earth if you go to,"},{"startTime":1407.184,"endTime":1408.564,"body":"The really deep parts of our ocean."},{"startTime":1408.748,"endTime":1412.488,"body":"not to say creatures get dumber, but"},{"startTime":1408.748,"endTime":1412.488,"body":"yeah, they invest less in, brain power"},{"startTime":1412.488,"endTime":1416.298,"body":"because it's extremely expensive,"},{"startTime":1412.488,"endTime":1416.298,"body":"and also just not that advantageous"},{"startTime":1416.298,"endTime":1417.468,"body":"In an environment like that."},{"startTime":1417.478,"endTime":1421.868,"body":"You don't need complex strategy"},{"startTime":1417.478,"endTime":1421.868,"body":"because most of your strategy just"},{"startTime":1421.868,"endTime":1423.118,"body":"exists on sitting and waiting."},{"startTime":1423.518,"endTime":1427.038,"body":"And even on Earth, where we actually"},{"startTime":1423.518,"endTime":1427.038,"body":"have quite a lot of energy, brains"},{"startTime":1427.048,"endTime":1430.798,"body":"are very expensive, and it's already"},{"startTime":1427.048,"endTime":1430.798,"body":"quite a hard evolutionary path"},{"startTime":1430.808,"endTime":1432.588,"body":"to go around in energy abundance-"},{"startTime":1432.728,"endTime":1432.878,"body":"Mm-hmm"},{"startTime":1432.878,"endTime":1435.138,"body":"much less in energy starvation, right?"},{"startTime":1435.778,"endTime":1436.148,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":1436.314,"endTime":1440.064,"body":"There is another key difference, though,"},{"startTime":1436.314,"endTime":1440.064,"body":"between these types of environments"},{"startTime":1440.104,"endTime":1443.234,"body":"and an Earth-like environment, if"},{"startTime":1440.104,"endTime":1443.234,"body":"you don't have photosynthesis, you"},{"startTime":1443.234,"endTime":1444.584,"body":"don't have an oxygen environment."},{"startTime":1444.726,"endTime":1448.066,"body":"So not only do these creatures"},{"startTime":1444.726,"endTime":1448.066,"body":"have to take advantage of"},{"startTime":1448.066,"endTime":1450.136,"body":"this lower form of energy,"},{"startTime":1450.166,"endTime":1450.486,"body":"right,"},{"startTime":1450.496,"endTime":1453.164,"body":"like chemosynthesis, radiosynthesis,"},{"startTime":1450.496,"endTime":1453.164,"body":"what have you, but they"},{"startTime":1453.164,"endTime":1454.614,"body":"also have to be anaerobic."},{"startTime":1454.634,"endTime":1458.474,"body":"They're not taking advantage of aerobic"},{"startTime":1454.634,"endTime":1458.474,"body":"respiration, and that's a huge deal"},{"startTime":1458.754,"endTime":1463.764,"body":"because anaerobic respiration is a lot"},{"startTime":1458.754,"endTime":1463.764,"body":"less efficient than aerobic respiration."},{"startTime":1464.044,"endTime":1467.344,"body":"So if you don't have oxygen, have"},{"startTime":1464.044,"endTime":1467.344,"body":"even less energy available from"},{"startTime":1467.344,"endTime":1468.884,"body":"The limited energy sources you have."},{"startTime":1469.114,"endTime":1471.62,"body":"And so that's a pretty big"},{"startTime":1469.114,"endTime":1471.62,"body":"deal as well, and it also just"},{"startTime":1471.62,"endTime":1474.47,"body":"means without free oxygen, that"},{"startTime":1471.62,"endTime":1474.47,"body":"changes your environment a lot."},{"startTime":1474.59,"endTime":1474.87,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1474.905,"endTime":1477.24,"body":"what is the byproduct of synthesis?"},{"startTime":1477.39,"endTime":1478.1,"body":"I have no idea."},{"startTime":1478.18,"endTime":1478.94,"body":"Yeah, me neither."},{"startTime":1478.99,"endTime":1480.48,"body":", And it's not oxygen, though, I know that."},{"startTime":1480.56,"endTime":1481.42,"body":"No, it's not oxygen."},{"startTime":1481.807,"endTime":1484.32,"body":"ah, God, I looked it up too, and"},{"startTime":1481.807,"endTime":1484.32,"body":"I forget what it is, but it's,"},{"startTime":1484.32,"endTime":1486.234,"body":"effectively, I think, a bunch"},{"startTime":1484.32,"endTime":1486.234,"body":"of different sulfur compounds."},{"startTime":1486.269,"endTime":1487.179,"body":"It is worth pointing out"},{"startTime":1487.249,"endTime":1490.489,"body":", On Earth, the chemosynthesis that happens"},{"startTime":1487.249,"endTime":1490.489,"body":"I believe is still aerobic respiration."},{"startTime":1490.692,"endTime":1493.102,"body":"It takes advantage of the"},{"startTime":1490.692,"endTime":1493.102,"body":"free oxygen in the ocean."},{"startTime":1493.259,"endTime":1494.429,"body":"So even on Earth,"},{"startTime":1494.429,"endTime":1497.548,"body":"-,"},{"startTime":1494.429,"endTime":1497.548,"body":"where the chemosynthesis is"},{"startTime":1497.558,"endTime":1499.738,"body":"So that, that is gonna"},{"startTime":1497.558,"endTime":1499.738,"body":"change things quite a lot."},{"startTime":1499.814,"endTime":1501.484,"body":"I was toying with the idea,"},{"startTime":1501.484,"endTime":1501.664,"body":"and,"},{"startTime":1501.664,"endTime":1503.904,"body":"and maybe this is possible,"},{"startTime":1501.664,"endTime":1503.904,"body":"I couldn't find…"},{"startTime":1504.234,"endTime":1506.584,"body":"'Cause this is so far removed"},{"startTime":1504.234,"endTime":1506.584,"body":"away from life on Earth, it"},{"startTime":1506.594,"endTime":1507.854,"body":"truly is very speculative."},{"startTime":1508.174,"endTime":1508.304,"body":"But"},{"startTime":1508.304,"endTime":1508.454,"body":"I,"},{"startTime":1508.454,"endTime":1510.084,"body":"I was kinda toying with the idea that"},{"startTime":1510.094,"endTime":1510.764,"body":"maybe,"},{"startTime":1510.846,"endTime":1513.481,"body":"if there was some chemical pathways"},{"startTime":1510.846,"endTime":1513.481,"body":"available, you might actually"},{"startTime":1513.481,"endTime":1517.461,"body":"have life forming oxygen anyways,"},{"startTime":1513.481,"endTime":1517.461,"body":"especially if you have water available."},{"startTime":1517.811,"endTime":1520.391,"body":"Maybe there's a process by"},{"startTime":1517.811,"endTime":1520.391,"body":"which they can split the oxygen"},{"startTime":1520.401,"endTime":1521.944,"body":"out of that water and use it."},{"startTime":1521.964,"endTime":1522.334,"body":"the issue"},{"startTime":1522.334,"endTime":1522.484,"body":"is,"},{"startTime":1522.484,"endTime":1525.601,"body":"is that it takes a lot of"},{"startTime":1522.484,"endTime":1525.601,"body":"energy to split water into,"},{"startTime":1525.729,"endTime":1528.389,"body":"oxygen and hydrogen, and I"},{"startTime":1525.729,"endTime":1528.389,"body":"think realistically it'd be a"},{"startTime":1528.389,"endTime":1529.949,"body":"net energy loss, not a gain."},{"startTime":1530.001,"endTime":1533.149,"body":"but perhaps there's some catalyst and"},{"startTime":1530.001,"endTime":1533.149,"body":"some evolutionary pathway that could"},{"startTime":1533.159,"endTime":1534.929,"body":"happen to catalyze that and make it work."},{"startTime":1535.279,"endTime":1536.849,"body":"I don't know of one, but maybe there is."},{"startTime":1536.849,"endTime":1538.199,"body":"So let's say that there is."},{"startTime":1538.309,"endTime":1539.982,"body":"Mm. I still imagine that's gonna be a"},{"startTime":1540.142,"endTime":1540.632,"body":"very,"},{"startTime":1540.642,"endTime":1542.322,"body":"very metabolically expensive path."},{"startTime":1542.652,"endTime":1546.642,"body":"So if that does happen, it's likely that"},{"startTime":1542.652,"endTime":1546.642,"body":"anything that does choose to go that"},{"startTime":1546.642,"endTime":1549.952,"body":"route and produce oxygen isn't gonna"},{"startTime":1546.642,"endTime":1549.952,"body":"just release it into its environment,"},{"startTime":1550.085,"endTime":1554.259,"body":"put a lot of energy into making this"},{"startTime":1550.085,"endTime":1554.259,"body":"oxygen, unlike on Earth, where it's pretty"},{"startTime":1554.259,"endTime":1556.049,"body":"easy for photosynthesis to make oxygen."},{"startTime":1556.244,"endTime":1558.129,"body":"They can already take advantage"},{"startTime":1556.244,"endTime":1558.129,"body":"of the sunlight coming in and"},{"startTime":1558.139,"endTime":1561.065,"body":"use that to, pay some of the bill"},{"startTime":1558.139,"endTime":1561.065,"body":"to split that carbon dioxide."},{"startTime":1561.265,"endTime":1563.855,"body":"No, you've gotta put all of the"},{"startTime":1561.265,"endTime":1563.855,"body":"energy in to split the water,"},{"startTime":1563.855,"endTime":1563.935,"body":"and,"},{"startTime":1563.935,"endTime":1565.955,"body":"and it takes more energy"},{"startTime":1563.935,"endTime":1565.955,"body":"to split the water anyways."},{"startTime":1566.296,"endTime":1568.096,"body":"So I don't think you're releasing"},{"startTime":1566.296,"endTime":1568.096,"body":"that into an environment."},{"startTime":1568.096,"endTime":1568.205,"body":"You're,"},{"startTime":1568.261,"endTime":1569.252,"body":"hoarding that oxygen."},{"startTime":1569.338,"endTime":1570.145,"body":"that could even be"},{"startTime":1570.155,"endTime":1570.475,"body":"kind of"},{"startTime":1570.475,"endTime":1571.836,"body":"another food source, too, right?"},{"startTime":1571.836,"endTime":1571.955,"body":"Like,"},{"startTime":1571.956,"endTime":1574.709,"body":"it wouldn't surprise me"},{"startTime":1571.956,"endTime":1574.709,"body":"to see other organisms"},{"startTime":1574.727,"endTime":1577.199,"body":"preying on those organisms"},{"startTime":1574.727,"endTime":1577.199,"body":"that produce oxygen"},{"startTime":1577.273,"endTime":1579.849,"body":"and using them, as a way"},{"startTime":1577.273,"endTime":1579.849,"body":"for them to get free oxygen."},{"startTime":1580.129,"endTime":1580.369,"body":"I mean,"},{"startTime":1580.369,"endTime":1580.509,"body":"that's"},{"startTime":1580.519,"endTime":1580.839,"body":"kind of"},{"startTime":1580.839,"endTime":1582.389,"body":"already how life on Earth"},{"startTime":1582.412,"endTime":1582.659,"body":"formed."},{"startTime":1582.659,"endTime":1583.419,"body":"That's why you have,"},{"startTime":1583.422,"endTime":1586.072,"body":"chloroplast in cells that's"},{"startTime":1583.422,"endTime":1586.072,"body":"basically that same pathway."},{"startTime":1586.072,"endTime":1588.405,"body":"It got gobbled up, and it's kinda"},{"startTime":1586.072,"endTime":1588.405,"body":"like how mitochondria work, too."},{"startTime":1588.505,"endTime":1588.655,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1588.655,"endTime":1588.685,"body":"They're"},{"startTime":1588.685,"endTime":1588.885,"body":"kind of"},{"startTime":1589.115,"endTime":1589.515,"body":"two cells."},{"startTime":1589.575,"endTime":1590.925,"body":"But it is worth pointing out"},{"startTime":1590.925,"endTime":1592.842,"body":"that that is maybe"},{"startTime":1590.925,"endTime":1592.842,"body":"something that could happen"},{"startTime":1592.939,"endTime":1594.009,"body":"it would make sense that,"},{"startTime":1594.069,"endTime":1596.699,"body":"There would be predation"},{"startTime":1594.069,"endTime":1596.699,"body":"on these creatures both"},{"startTime":1596.729,"endTime":1598.369,"body":"producing and storing oxygen,"},{"startTime":1598.429,"endTime":1598.979,"body":"you know, sort of"},{"startTime":1598.979,"endTime":1600.789,"body":"like little mini oxygen camels."},{"startTime":1601.089,"endTime":1604.792,"body":"And then, something comes in and"},{"startTime":1601.089,"endTime":1604.792,"body":"continues to consume them, but"},{"startTime":1604.812,"endTime":1607.732,"body":"eventually along their evolutionary"},{"startTime":1604.812,"endTime":1607.732,"body":"tree they decide to work together."},{"startTime":1608.052,"endTime":1608.882,"body":"You could actually see,"},{"startTime":1608.882,"endTime":1611.01,"body":"Almost fundamental cell,"},{"startTime":1611.01,"endTime":1614.56,"body":"Differences where the cells are"},{"startTime":1611.01,"endTime":1614.56,"body":"actually within the body producing"},{"startTime":1614.62,"endTime":1616.63,"body":"oxygen in multicellular organisms."},{"startTime":1616.72,"endTime":1616.95,"body":"Yeah,"},{"startTime":1616.95,"endTime":1618.78,"body":","},{"startTime":1616.95,"endTime":1618.78,"body":"It's basically how the"},{"startTime":1618.796,"endTime":1619.766,"body":"into animal cells are…"},{"startTime":1619.766,"endTime":1619.956,"body":"I mean,"},{"startTime":1619.976,"endTime":1622.116,"body":"really that is how the"},{"startTime":1619.976,"endTime":1622.116,"body":"chloroplast got absorbed"},{"startTime":1622.121,"endTime":1622.813,"body":"in plant cells,"},{"startTime":1622.823,"endTime":1622.893,"body":"so."},{"startTime":1622.923,"endTime":1623.453,"body":"Exactly."},{"startTime":1623.494,"endTime":1625.096,"body":"It's so interesting to think about,"},{"startTime":1625.146,"endTime":1628.936,"body":"Again, multicellular organisms would be"},{"startTime":1625.146,"endTime":1628.936,"body":"few and far between even in this point"},{"startTime":1628.936,"endTime":1631.243,"body":"because the energy is so much less."},{"startTime":1631.353,"endTime":1633.94,"body":"But it would be cool to see that, trait,"},{"startTime":1633.983,"endTime":1635.923,"body":"and think of what those"},{"startTime":1633.983,"endTime":1635.923,"body":"creatures would be like."},{"startTime":1636.023,"endTime":1636.253,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1636.253,"endTime":1638.913,"body":"And it is worth pointing out, and"},{"startTime":1636.253,"endTime":1638.913,"body":"this kinda ties back to what you said"},{"startTime":1639.073,"endTime":1642.673,"body":"before, you might have had life on"},{"startTime":1639.073,"endTime":1642.673,"body":"these planets around long before life"},{"startTime":1642.673,"endTime":1646.393,"body":"on Earth formed, and still have not"},{"startTime":1642.673,"endTime":1646.393,"body":"gotten to that point of having a complex"},{"startTime":1646.393,"endTime":1649.561,"body":"and kind of eukaryotic cell, even if"},{"startTime":1646.393,"endTime":1649.561,"body":"life has been around longer than on"},{"startTime":1649.571,"endTime":1653.182,"body":"Earth, just because of how glacially"},{"startTime":1649.571,"endTime":1653.182,"body":"slow these processes have to happen"},{"startTime":1653.492,"endTime":1655.392,"body":"in these energy-starved environments."},{"startTime":1655.402,"endTime":1655.522,"body":"So"},{"startTime":1655.522,"endTime":1658.335,"body":"you're gonna have evolution at a"},{"startTime":1655.522,"endTime":1658.335,"body":"glacier speed on these planets."},{"startTime":1658.345,"endTime":1661.802,"body":"So even though these environments"},{"startTime":1658.345,"endTime":1661.802,"body":"might have been around for billions of"},{"startTime":1661.812,"endTime":1665.222,"body":"years, they might really look like the"},{"startTime":1661.812,"endTime":1665.222,"body":"first formation of life on Earth still."},{"startTime":1665.663,"endTime":1669.273,"body":"just don't really see a way around that"},{"startTime":1665.663,"endTime":1669.273,"body":"unless they get to a point to where"},{"startTime":1669.273,"endTime":1673.343,"body":"they're, like, perfectly, taking the"},{"startTime":1669.273,"endTime":1673.343,"body":"energy from these alternate sources."},{"startTime":1673.353,"endTime":1676.596,"body":"and even then, like you said, there's"},{"startTime":1673.353,"endTime":1676.596,"body":"nothing that we've seen in our universe"},{"startTime":1676.596,"endTime":1681.116,"body":"so far that is so readily available, to"},{"startTime":1676.596,"endTime":1681.116,"body":"give consistent energy as photosynthesis."},{"startTime":1681.216,"endTime":1683.166,"body":"I guess really the only one"},{"startTime":1681.216,"endTime":1683.166,"body":"would be radiosynthesis."},{"startTime":1683.266,"endTime":1685.066,"body":"I could genuinely see that being a way."},{"startTime":1685.106,"endTime":1688.306,"body":"I do think it's overall much less"},{"startTime":1685.106,"endTime":1688.306,"body":"efficient than photosynthesis."},{"startTime":1688.326,"endTime":1690.936,"body":"Gamma radiation is just a really"},{"startTime":1688.326,"endTime":1690.936,"body":"hard thing to catch and use."},{"startTime":1691.063,"endTime":1691.433,"body":"but,"},{"startTime":1691.445,"endTime":1693.576,"body":"that's the only case where you can"},{"startTime":1691.445,"endTime":1693.576,"body":"actually see you having a planet"},{"startTime":1693.626,"endTime":1697.429,"body":"bathed in an energy source, kinda"},{"startTime":1693.626,"endTime":1697.429,"body":"like how photosynthesis works,  versus"},{"startTime":1697.429,"endTime":1700.569,"body":"geothermal vents, which only happen"},{"startTime":1697.429,"endTime":1700.569,"body":"in isolated pockets, or trying to"},{"startTime":1700.569,"endTime":1702.159,"body":"take advantage of mechanical energy-"},{"startTime":1702.349,"endTime":1702.449,"body":"Mm-hmm"},{"startTime":1702.459,"endTime":1704.149,"body":"which you can imagine"},{"startTime":1702.459,"endTime":1704.149,"body":"would be really tricky."},{"startTime":1704.309,"endTime":1704.559,"body":"I do"},{"startTime":1704.559,"endTime":1704.779,"body":"like"},{"startTime":1704.779,"endTime":1705.319,"body":"the idea, though."},{"startTime":1705.319,"endTime":1708.029,"body":"If you did take advantage of"},{"startTime":1705.319,"endTime":1708.029,"body":"mechanical energy, maybe you would see,"},{"startTime":1708.029,"endTime":1710.629,"body":"Almost rafts of organisms"},{"startTime":1708.029,"endTime":1710.629,"body":"form where they can,"},{"startTime":1710.629,"endTime":1712.871,"body":"Take advantage of tidal"},{"startTime":1710.629,"endTime":1712.871,"body":"motions or wave motions."},{"startTime":1712.994,"endTime":1713.364,"body":"or maybe"},{"startTime":1713.364,"endTime":1713.684,"body":"they,"},{"startTime":1713.694,"endTime":1714.674,"body":"Link together so they,"},{"startTime":1714.674,"endTime":1715.434,"body":"Flap around"},{"startTime":1715.434,"endTime":1715.884,"body":"in a,"},{"startTime":1715.904,"endTime":1719.895,"body":"high current area and just try to maximize"},{"startTime":1715.904,"endTime":1719.895,"body":"the movement to take advantage of that."},{"startTime":1720.205,"endTime":1720.765,"body":"And that serves"},{"startTime":1720.765,"endTime":1721.035,"body":"as a,"},{"startTime":1721.095,"endTime":1724.512,"body":"Basis of a, ecology, but, highly"},{"startTime":1721.095,"endTime":1724.512,"body":"theoretical, highly speculative,"},{"startTime":1724.512,"endTime":1725.572,"body":"and I imagine still would be a"},{"startTime":1725.582,"endTime":1726.152,"body":"very,"},{"startTime":1726.312,"endTime":1728.582,"body":"very energy-poor environment."},{"startTime":1728.582,"endTime":1731.882,"body":"And again, it'd be like what we said"},{"startTime":1728.582,"endTime":1731.882,"body":"before, probably no production of"},{"startTime":1731.882,"endTime":1735.068,"body":"oxygen, so these are all gonna be"},{"startTime":1731.882,"endTime":1735.068,"body":"having to rely on anaerobic processes."},{"startTime":1735.178,"endTime":1737.498,"body":"And again, predation is probably gonna be"},{"startTime":1737.508,"endTime":1737.888,"body":"very,"},{"startTime":1737.888,"endTime":1741.768,"body":"very limited and maybe only one step"},{"startTime":1737.888,"endTime":1741.768,"body":"removed from the primary energy generator."},{"startTime":1741.892,"endTime":1746.143,"body":"It's definitely an interesting concept,"},{"startTime":1741.892,"endTime":1746.143,"body":"thinking of giant raft creatures,"},{"startTime":1746.143,"endTime":1747.902,"body":"floating around to be"},{"startTime":1746.143,"endTime":1747.902,"body":"able to harvest that."},{"startTime":1747.902,"endTime":1748.912,"body":"But definitely"},{"startTime":1748.922,"endTime":1749.322,"body":"in,"},{"startTime":1749.352,"endTime":1753.562,"body":"An ecosystem where you're harvesting"},{"startTime":1749.352,"endTime":1753.562,"body":"mechanical energy, it would seem almost,"},{"startTime":1753.562,"endTime":1759.412,"body":"Crazy to have predation even because"},{"startTime":1753.562,"endTime":1759.412,"body":"you're trying to optimize just going with"},{"startTime":1759.422,"endTime":1760.922,"body":"the movements of the earth around you."},{"startTime":1760.922,"endTime":1761.692,"body":"So you're… What?"},{"startTime":1761.702,"endTime":1764.495,"body":"Now you're banking on, \"Oh, hopefully"},{"startTime":1761.702,"endTime":1764.495,"body":"I bump into somebody- Yeah, for"},{"startTime":1764.495,"endTime":1765.672,"body":"real … and I just get to eat them\"?"},{"startTime":1765.762,"endTime":1766.812,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"startTime":1766.812,"endTime":1767.062,"body":"right?"},{"startTime":1767.062,"endTime":1768.003,"body":"And then on top of that,"},{"startTime":1768.015,"endTime":1768.175,"body":"like,"},{"startTime":1768.405,"endTime":1772.305,"body":"chemosynthesis is already not the"},{"startTime":1768.405,"endTime":1772.305,"body":"most energy-rich way to run life."},{"startTime":1772.305,"endTime":1775.302,"body":"Like, when you look at these hydrothermal"},{"startTime":1772.305,"endTime":1775.302,"body":"vents, which use aerobic respiration,"},{"startTime":1775.445,"endTime":1776.865,"body":"they're fairly active, compared to,"},{"startTime":1776.865,"endTime":1778.642,"body":"like, the environment"},{"startTime":1776.865,"endTime":1778.642,"body":"around them, but still not,"},{"startTime":1778.642,"endTime":1778.752,"body":"like,"},{"startTime":1778.752,"endTime":1779.242,"body":"crazy."},{"startTime":1779.242,"endTime":1780.313,"body":"And especially if you look at,"},{"startTime":1780.318,"endTime":1781.848,"body":"the bacteria that exist"},{"startTime":1781.848,"endTime":1783.625,"body":"Deep in the earth's"},{"startTime":1781.848,"endTime":1783.625,"body":"crust that's relying on,"},{"startTime":1783.625,"endTime":1783.745,"body":"like,"},{"startTime":1783.775,"endTime":1784.945,"body":"iron for food, right?"},{"startTime":1785.032,"endTime":1785.842,"body":"and I still think that,"},{"startTime":1785.908,"endTime":1789.038,"body":"trying to harvest mechanical energy"},{"startTime":1785.908,"endTime":1789.038,"body":"would be even less energy than that."},{"startTime":1789.052,"endTime":1790.872,"body":"Can you even get enough energy to,"},{"startTime":1790.878,"endTime":1794.505,"body":"keep a cell alive, and much less enough"},{"startTime":1790.878,"endTime":1794.505,"body":"energy to keep a multicellular predator"},{"startTime":1794.505,"endTime":1796.305,"body":"alive, that seems like a stretch, but"},{"startTime":1796.338,"endTime":1799.108,"body":"I think anything's possible, as long as"},{"startTime":1796.338,"endTime":1799.108,"body":"it doesn't break the laws of physics."},{"startTime":1799.215,"endTime":1801.725,"body":"I don't see why that"},{"startTime":1799.215,"endTime":1801.725,"body":"does, and I could see a"},{"startTime":1801.725,"endTime":1802.195,"body":"very,"},{"startTime":1802.485,"endTime":1804.285,"body":"very basic ecosystem forming from that."},{"startTime":1804.485,"endTime":1805.465,"body":"Yeah, I could too."},{"startTime":1805.603,"endTime":1806.713,"body":"I hope you enjoy that episode."},{"startTime":1806.713,"endTime":1808.493,"body":"If you did, I hope you subscribe on,"},{"startTime":1808.579,"endTime":1811.509,"body":"the podcast platform that you're"},{"startTime":1808.579,"endTime":1811.509,"body":"currently listening on, or YouTube"},{"startTime":1811.529,"endTime":1812.919,"body":"if you're watching our video format."},{"startTime":1813.179,"endTime":1816.549,"body":"Also, if you, really like the show, you"},{"startTime":1813.179,"endTime":1816.549,"body":"can consider supporting us on Patreon."},{"startTime":1816.559,"endTime":1819.919,"body":"We do really appreciate all of our"},{"startTime":1816.559,"endTime":1819.919,"body":"supporters for making this all possible."},{"startTime":1820.002,"endTime":1821.322,"body":"Please consider joining us next week."},{"startTime":1821.372,"endTime":1823.642,"body":"We're gonna be talking about what"},{"startTime":1821.372,"endTime":1823.642,"body":"life might be like for people who"},{"startTime":1823.642,"endTime":1824.982,"body":"live in our outer solar system."},{"startTime":1825.232,"endTime":1828.122,"body":"If you've watched The Expanse and you"},{"startTime":1825.232,"endTime":1828.122,"body":"know who the belters are, that's kinda"},{"startTime":1828.122,"endTime":1830.982,"body":"what we're gonna be talking about here,"},{"startTime":1828.122,"endTime":1830.982,"body":"people who live in the asteroid belt,"},{"startTime":1830.992,"endTime":1834.032,"body":"people who live in those outer planets and"},{"startTime":1830.992,"endTime":1834.032,"body":"actually have to make a living out there."},{"startTime":1834.282,"endTime":1835.622,"body":"Is it gonna be like a frontier?"},{"startTime":1835.662,"endTime":1836.362,"body":"Um, I don't know."},{"startTime":1836.362,"endTime":1838.172,"body":"We haven't decided on what"},{"startTime":1836.362,"endTime":1838.172,"body":"that's gonna be like yet."},{"startTime":1838.182,"endTime":1840.782,"body":"I need to do some research, but- That's"},{"startTime":1838.182,"endTime":1840.782,"body":"right … I think it'll be a fun topic."},{"startTime":1840.782,"endTime":1842.522,"body":"If you're a fan of The"},{"startTime":1840.782,"endTime":1842.522,"body":"Expanse, I think it'll be,"},{"startTime":1842.66,"endTime":1844.62,"body":"a fitting one for you, and I hope you join"},{"startTime":1844.62,"endTime":1845.15,"body":"And watch."},{"startTime":1845.34,"endTime":1846.29,"body":"We'll see you guys next week."},{"startTime":1846.6,"endTime":1846.98,"body":"Take care."},{"startTime":1847.21,"endTime":1847.57,"body":"Bye-bye."}]}