Entropy Rising

Humanoid Robots and the Future of Labor: Dream or Disaster? | Entropy Rising Episode 12

• Jacob Hyatt • Episode 12

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Humanoid robots are no longer just the stuff of science fiction. They’re here, and they’re getting smarter, more capable, and more integrated into daily life. But what does that mean for the future of work, society, and even human identity? In this episode of Entropy Rising, Jacob and Lucas dive deep into the world of humanoid robotics, exploring their potential, challenges, and the massive implications they have for the economy and beyond.

We start by breaking down why humanoid robots make sense—why engineers and tech companies are pushing for robots with human-like bodies instead of simpler, specialized machines. The answer? Our world is built for humans. From navigating stairs to handling objects designed for human hands, robots that mimic our form have a built-in advantage when it comes to integration into homes, workplaces, and even healthcare.

But if robots can do everything we can—only better—what happens to human jobs? We explore the real economic risks of automation, whether universal basic income is a viable solution, and how a poorly managed transition could lead to the largest wealth transfer in history. Could we be facing a future where only a handful of people control all labor, while the rest of society is left struggling to find purpose? Or will robots free us from work and usher in a utopian era of creativity and leisure?

The conversation also touches on real-world applications beyond just replacing workers. From home healthcare to firefighting and emergency response, humanoid robots could save lives and transform entire industries. But there are risks—how do we make sure these machines are safe, ethical, and used responsibly?

And then there’s the big question: Are we heading toward a Blade Runner-style dystopia, or something closer to Star Trek? Jacob and Lucas weigh the possibilities and what needs to happen to ensure AI-driven automation benefits society instead of destabilizing it.

Website: https://www.entropy-rising.com/

Lucas:

but realistically, when we get into thinking of this utopian society, it's all just going to be luxury. that's, I hope so, right? Right. You know, of course, it has that chance of going Blade Runner? Yeah, Blade Runner, right? You have replicants and stuff is like, you know, it seems like it should be utopian, but it's actually dystopian.

Jacob:

Hello and welcome to Entropy Rising, where we talk about science and futurism. I'm your host to Jacob. And as always, I'm here with my wonderful co host, Lucas. Lucas, how are you doing today?

Lucas:

Doing wonderful, Jake. How are you today?

Jacob:

I'm doing great. You know, we're sitting here recording. I can never complain about that. That's always a good day in my book.

Lucas:

Absolutely.

Jacob:

So today's topic is humanoid robotics, which is something we brought up that we wanted to talk about in our Q& A episode. And. I think it's gonna be a fairly interesting discussion. I know I always say that, but

Lucas:

yeah, no, it's a really exciting topic that I feel like we're going to be getting into. you see it a lot in the science fiction movies. So I think it'll be a lot of fun for both us and our viewers.

Jacob:

Absolutely. And a lot closer to home. You know, we're typically talking about space and things happening hundreds, maybe even hundreds of thousands of years away. But this is really something that We're already seeing now.

Lucas:

Something that we can all, either look forward to or dread seeing in our future. So, you know, humanoid robots have been a staple of science fiction since, even before it was really called science fiction. I mean, clockwork men have been around in writings since the late 1800s. And, when you get a little more advanced, we start running into traditional humanoid robots and works like Asimov and, of course, the Jetsons had a very famous one, Rosie. Yeah, absolutely. And, they're always taking up these roles of, servitude or, you see them in things like, Blade Runner or iRobot where they take up a more crazy dystopian approach. Oh yeah, in science fiction they have, they span the gamut, but you are right, they do come up a lot in both positive and negative lights.

Jacob:

But despite seeing humanoid robots in science fiction for, well over a century at this point, we really haven't seen humanoid robots break out into real life, Which is crazy, because robots have been catching on for a while now. I mean, robots on factory floors have been around since, what, like, the 70s is when those really started catching on? And you had, robotic arms replacing, workers. And now it's gotten to the point where we have some factories that are almost fully automated. But these aren't humanoid robots, of course. These are just robotic arms. so it does beg the question, why humanoid robots, what advantage do humanoid robots have, and are we actually going to use these in the real world, or are they strictly science fiction?

Lucas:

that's definitely a great point. I feel like the robots that are in the factories, like car manufacturing and mostly you see them a lot in metalworking, welding, things like that. They have their place. but when we go into what a real future where robots can start getting into the workforce and especially getting into our homes. we view them as humanoid because we want them to be able to do whatever we can do, but can't be there to do at that time with confidence.

Jacob:

That's a fair point. our world is made for humans by humans. So mimicking the human form, while it does lead to a more complex design overall, it means it's going to work in any environment.

Lucas:

Yeah, absolutely. You see that a lot with stairs. Yeah. Would be one of the biggest defeaters of robotics today. if you have a flight of stairs, they either can't go up or can't go down.

Jacob:

Oh yeah, so having a bipedal robot means that they can interact in environments designed for humans, no problem. And then by having a robot that has, human hands with five fingers, that's more complicated. It means you don't need to go out and buy a variety of special tools to go along with your robot. it can already use everything you already own. If you're a company, that could save you tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Lucas:

Yeah. Or, like you were saying in your home, cooking, that would be a great example. I love home cooked meals, but cooking is such a chore. Yes. Especially after a long work day. they develop robots nowadays that are specialized for cooking pre planned meals that can be put into a pot, but you still have to do some of the work, and then they're still messy, and sometimes, or usually the food isn't even that good.

Jacob:

I've seen those, and they're not very good. It's like, basically a stirrer built in, and the one I saw, you still had to dice everything yourself, and you loaded it into pods, and it just dropped it in. I really can't think of a way to automate cooking without essentially using a human form, two arms.

Lucas:

Exactly, because like you were saying, they can then utilize all the tools that you already have in your kitchen. Your knives, your pots, your pans, your oil, your food. They can put it all together the way that you would want it to. And really all that you have to do is pull a recipe off Pinterest and give it to it.

Jacob:

you might not even need to do that. most of these robots have some type of AI built into them. So if you just tell it, hey, I want some pasta. It can go through, find a recipe or make one on its own and just make it for you. So you don't even need to think about what you want. Just tell it the general vibe you're going for. I want Italian food tonight. And then it'll go find something maybe even based on what it knows about you, pick out a recipe and make it for you.

Lucas:

Yeah. that is really the peak of where you get when it comes to robotics, and that's why humanoid robotics, I feel like, are The big thing that everybody looks forward to

Jacob:

I agree I mean if I had to summarize it in a word I would say why should we mimic the human form is because that gives you a general purpose robot that can do Pretty much anything. Yeah, if you want it to cook if you want it to clean if you want it to go repair your car Pick

Lucas:

up your kids

Jacob:

from

Lucas:

school.

Jacob:

Yeah, exactly you know, we're talking about domestic tasks right now, but this also applies for businesses and companies if you have a restaurant and you're trying to automate a part of that restaurant, maybe a part of that cooking process. You might have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to build an automated cooker, whatever cooking machine. but you still need to employ somebody to maybe do the prep work. Whereas with a general purpose robot, it can do the prep work and then it can use your preexisting grill, your preexisting equipment. You don't need to redesign your kitchen around the station. It'll just show up, do what you need it to do around the clock. No issues.

Lucas:

Yeah. And When we're thinking about that how are we going to be able to program a machine that can go around and make any device that a human can make, handle materials the way that they need to be handled, like not grab a, an egg and just break it in its hand. It needs to have that tactile feel. it needs to be able to go throughout your home, go up your stairs, mow your yard, analyze everything around it. What's going to go into something like that? And really, what comes to mind is just artificial intelligence.

Jacob:

Yeah, I definitely think these robots are going to need to have some sort of learning algorithm built into it so that you can interact with it in a natural way, having a humanoid form does no good if you need to have a highly experienced, skilled programmer to show up to your house and program every single move this is going to take. And that's a limitation with a lot of robots right now, robotic arms. Yes, they replace a job, and they're simpler once they're up and running, but you need a highly skilled operator to program this thing to work. And usually these things only have a few axes of movement. When you think of a humanoid robot, how many different axes of movement it has, there's no way that this is going to be economical or useful unless, like you said, it has some type of AI. Where it can control itself. You can show it how to do something or tell it to do something. And it can learn from its own environment and figure it out and do it itself.

Lucas:

Yeah. when you think about robots now, especially robots that work in the home, like Roombas. will scan your home for you. But their work is a very straight line. Yeah. Drive around the barrier that you've created and suck up stuff while you're doing that. Where a robot, it could come in and it could scan your home, figure out what's your kitchen and your living room. But like you said, you'd have to have a programmer come in and teach it essentially how to make every single recipe, cut every vegetable, walk up that certain flight of stairs. it just, it's not going to be like that. It's going to be something that's going to be in your home.

Jacob:

Absolutely. It needs to have some sort of AI. And I would say, even if it's not going to be in your home, even on an enterprise sense, like for businesses. If you want to make this a mass market appeal, what you really need to do if you want to take advantage of economies of scale, then it needs to be very user friendly. And that seems like a natural place to put something like a natural language program where I can tell it in English or whatever language what to do and it can interpret what I mean by its surroundings and then go do that task. That is definitely going to be the dream of robotics, and that is something I think we're quickly approaching.

Lucas:

Oh yeah, that's in the very near future. I'd say 20, 2050 for sure. Yeah,

Jacob:

I think so. I think we could see that. I mean, we're already basically seeing it now. And really the biggest limitation with these things for the longest time has been both batteries and computational power. And both of those are quickly being solved. Every single day we're making strives in both of those categories. Yeah.

Lucas:

Yeah, definitely.

Jacob:

Another thing to keep in mind when we're talking about mimicking the human form is that it also makes it easier to accept socially. we already know how to interact with humans. We're not surprised when we see a human doing something. So having a robot that looks like a human and acts like a human, I think will also make it easier for people just to naturally understand how to do it and accept it as part of their home or as part of their larger community. I

Lucas:

mean, absolutely. But that's a very blurred line when you talk about that. Because if you have a robot that mostly looks like a human and mostly acts like a human, then it's creepy. There is an uncanny valley.

Jacob:

There's definitely an uncanny valley. And I really think we should just stay away from that and just make these very robot looking.

Lucas:

Yeah, I definitely agree. And realistically, I feel like that would be a lot more acceptable. We'll have something that almost you won't feel bad for having to do all this labor. and then as far as, us starting to accept that into our factories or in our workforce or in our homes, we already have, it's been a silent handoff that we've been doing slowly since the first Roomba came out, you know, and even before then with computers in our homes, things like that. we're just giving these small tasks, but very streamlined tasks over to other things that will do it for us. And, we're seeing it more now in our cars and our factories. So, I definitely don't think it's going to be this huge robots are going to come out of nowhere and take over everything. We're already starting to accept that now.

Jacob:

Oh, absolutely. And I do think the humanoid form can help with that a little bit. Especially if we design these things to look a little bit more, rounded and friendly versus trying to, I don't think we should mimic humans too much, right? Um, But, something you did mention earlier that I thought was interesting was you pointed out that non humanoid robots will still have a place in society. And I absolutely agree with that. I don't think humanoid robots are going to be a one size fits all solution. And you're going to have to go a case by case basis and figure out when do I need a humanoid robot or when will a simpler custom built machine do the same job? Yeah. Because, when you're thinking about something like an assembly line, for example, If you just need to make the same weld on the same piece of metal all day, every day, having a much more complicated robot that has legs and articulating hands makes no sense. That's just a lot of extra cost when a simpler, custom built thing will do the same job, arguably even better and for cheaper.

Lucas:

Yeah, I definitely agree with that. When we're talking about applications and factories, or anything like that You don't need a robot that can do everything. You just need a robot that can do that thing.

Jacob:

Yeah, exactly. when you read older science fiction, you will see humanoid robots operating checkout kiosks at grocery stores and stuff like that. Of course, now we see that's not the case. That's not how you do it. It's much simpler just to have an automated machine that people can check themselves out in. Yeah. And I think that's also going to be the case going forward. while I do think there are a lot of tasks that only a humanoid robot could do efficiently, there are also a fair amount of tasks where you wouldn't need and or want a humanoid robot just because why have the extra complexity if you can get away with not needing it?

Lucas:

Yeah, and the cost, and you would have to custom make it for a lot of those positions. Like, not every robot coming off the line will have the ability to use, welding equipment because that could be something that's very niche. Yeah,

Jacob:

exactly. don't think every humanoid robot is going to have the same level of detail. For example, you might not have a fully articulated hand for every robot. you know, hands are very complicated things. So maybe they'll just have a universal mount where you can mount certain tools.

Lucas:

Absolutely.

Jacob:

but I can also see some specific jobs that humanoid robots would do really well. That's just not something that's achievable without that type of form.

Lucas:

what first comes to mind would be like healthcare.

Jacob:

yeah, I think healthcare alone will be revolutionized by something like, humanoid robots that are affordable.

Lucas:

Yeah, a job they could fill really well would be like in home healthcare.

Jacob:

Oh, yeah, that one would be a big one.

Lucas:

because, nobody wants to put their loved ones in a home, but we have to do it by necessity because you have to continue your life. You have a job and you have your own family and children and You can't provide the care that is needed for those family members.

Jacob:

And it's also very expensive to hire round the clock care. Even if you want to keep them at home, a lot of people just can't afford to do that.

Lucas:

Yeah, absolutely. So if we had a robot that could do that and could do everything else for you while it's doing that, but it could even be more specialized. It could have. a faceplate on it that could display, like smiling faces or something that's less frightening to an elderly person in your family, or they could have specialized hands that are softer to the touch that bring comfort to someone. So I could definitely see

Jacob:

stuff like that. I just also think having these for people living with disabilities, having something that's literally always there to help you transfer in and out of your bed or to go and get you things to make you food. that would be a huge quality of life improvement for many people. Oh yeah. And a lot of people can't afford that. Uh, not to mention, you can definitely see some subscription models coming up for these, especially if you have these for end of life care where they may only need to rent it for a few years. So you could have an insurance company that makes the initial purchase for one of these, maybe it's expensive, maybe it's like 200, 000, but they're able to use it for 10, 15 years, when you break that down over the lifetime of the unit. Way cheaper than a nurse, especially if you were talking about round the clock care, 24 7 care.

Lucas:

Yeah, I mean it could replace, like you were saying, a lot of what hospice brings to people, where it's like you have nursing staff that come and check on them and Provide them with cleanings, things like that. the robot can maintain a lot of that, for whenever they need it.

Jacob:

Absolutely, and I think that would revolutionize, healthcare in general, and just bring a huge quality of life improvement for many people. Yeah, absolutely. And it wouldn't surprise me to see these robots being used by people who wouldn't traditionally get around the clock care. I'm thinking of elderly people who are not at the point yet where they need round the clock care. But if there's a cheap and readily available source of labor like a humanoid robot, then it might make sense to start implementing it earlier to help maintain or do some jobs they're not able to do anymore. And it could also save lives. I mean As someone's getting older, having a robot to clean the gutters, so to speak, and, to take riskier activities that they can no longer do. that could really help minimize the risk of falls, or to have a robot there in case they do fall. Yeah. And it can now help them, um, maybe even provide some first aid care, and then contact, emergency services. How many lives do you think that could save alone?

Lucas:

it, yeah, it would be revolutionary. It really would. and they could go even further than that and go into sensing, changes in blood pressure, changes in heart rate, how your metabolic rate's going and they could sense diseases in you. and at that point they could even move into the healthcare field further, start working as diagnosticians, nurses, like we could use them everywhere.

Jacob:

Yeah, That's a great point. If you've got these, health centric robots already, one hand, they could help you by making you lunch and, caring for your daily needs, but they might also be built in with a bunch of diagnostic tools like you were mentioning to give live, health updates to a medical expert, or maybe an AI model overseen by a medical expert, that could also really improve longevity of people, and it might mean that people are getting better outcomes. Thank you. Basically round the clock medical care and issues are being brought up almost in real time versus waiting for the next checkup.

Lucas:

And I know, when we were talking a little earlier, you were also talking about like first responders. Oh yeah, that's a great one. you know how they could be equipped with specialized equipment to where they get off the ambulance to an emergency situation and they can Stabilize and position and then, administer all the medications that would be needed to either start the healing process, stop damage, or make the person comfortable in their last moments. in that situation,

Jacob:

absolutely. I mean, like you were saying, first aid would could be huge. imagine how much kit a robot can carry versus a human, firefighting or rescue situations. You know, if you have a house on fire, firefighters have to risk their life to go and save another person. It would be nice if you could have the benefit of going and trying to save that person without having to risk other lives in the process. Yeah. I get into this, Okay. Weird streak sometimes where I watch these cave diving videos and if you watch these videos it is crazy how many times someone gets trapped or lost in one of these caves and the first responders also die trying to save them.

Lucas:

Yeah, I mean that, I don't know about other people, but my claustrophobia, I couldn't get anywhere near, if my friend were to get lost in a cave, that's it. Like I'm not going back.

Jacob:

But that's another example where I've seen some where the person's even still alive, but they have to do a cost benefit analysis of where that person is located. There's just too much of a risk to first responders to go get them. So we have to either wait for conditions to improve or. You know say sorry so having robots that could take those huge risks And still try to save people

Lucas:

would be huge and be more effective at saving people than we would be

Jacob:

Yeah, it's funny We're talking about humanoid robots and I still think those make a lot of sense but you could also have non humanoid forms for specific situations like maybe You know, to help dig through rubble and stuff like that.

Lucas:

yeah. And just like sense human bodies, things like that. And then, another application that everybody sees in sci fi movies, everywhere from Star Wars to Blade Runner to really just any movie in the future, you have police robots.

Jacob:

Oh yeah, for sure.

Lucas:

And military robots.

Jacob:

That definitely gets into a lot of ethical questions and definitely, can lean toward the Dystopian, but they don't necessarily have to be there can be some good uses for them. Yeah, you know people do have to risk their lives in dangerous situations, so Being able to subdue someone who's trying to harm others without putting humans in harm's way could be a huge benefit

Lucas:

Yeah, I mean you gotta think you wouldn't want to make a robot that would harm people Even if they were an offender, because that sort of goes against what would make people feel comfortable here at home. If robots had the programming ability to go out there and start harming people, then, but this is definitely something that we can touch on more later, but I just think that is a concept that will be inevitable as well.

Jacob:

I definitely think that's going to happen, and I foresee us doing an entire episode just talking about the military components of, robots, because, we already have drones and stuff. that is, uh Whole ethical bundle and I would love to dive into it. I think that's beyond the scope of today's episode Yeah, we just we

Lucas:

could definitely do just a whole episode on that

Jacob:

Yes, but just to say what we can in this episode I do definitely think that's another application for these and 100 percent I think you would see Some type of humanoid robotic form enter militaries once they become cheap, especially once they're cheaper than a normal soldier

Lucas:

Absolutely,

Jacob:

just one last Real world application I can see for these is when you think about the home how much of our life is spent on domestic tasks You know, you already mentioned cooking but also cleaning folding laundry And we have seen robots enter the domestic market. Roomba being a famous one. I have a litter robot that handles my cat's waste. there's all kinds of robots already entering the domestic market. But there are certain tasks that just can't be automated effectively for a home use. If they can be, it's not, like I said, it's just not worth the money. Um, one that comes to mind for me is like folding laundry. I think I saw there is a machine that can fold laundry for you, but it's like eight or 9,

Lucas:

000. It is very expensive. But when you think just talking about folding laundry for a second, because I know we all hate it so much. the average person spends 84 days of their life folding laundry. That's crazy. That's just folding laundry. That's not putting it in the washer, that's not putting it in the dryer. Just folding it. That's absolutely insane. those specialized robots, we're not going to purchase those because all that they can do is fold laundry. But when you throw into account that if you were to buy a humanoid robot that can do everything for you, and just on folding laundry, it saves you 84 days of your life. That's incredible.

Jacob:

That's, I fully agree and that was actually the point I was going to make 9, 000 on a robot to fold laundry isn't worth it, but 20, 000 on a robot that can do everything, including folding laundry, even though it's more expensive overall, I think is a better value proposition.

Lucas:

it's just crazy to think about because you're essentially gaining years of your life back. and that, that's just in, in your home on doing these menial tasks.

Jacob:

Yeah, no, I agree. I think we're definitely going to see these in the domestic market and, I think it's going to change how people live their lives.

Lucas:

Yeah. But now when we talk about, these robots and how expensive they are, how affordable will that actually be for the home?

Jacob:

Yeah, that's a great question. I don't know the specific per unit cost right now. I do know some companies have floated around the 20, 000 to 30, 000 mark as a goal, which sounds like a lot of money to be fair. It is, but I think that makes sense. If we can build these robots and sell them for the same price that a car cost, for example, I believe people would buy them in droves.

Lucas:

Yeah. especially if you can finance them. Yeah. Or Or lease them. Or rent them.

Jacob:

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, for what you wanna do, if we can take the car model and apply it for robots. I see no reason why people wouldn't do it. I know people who already buy cars. They really shouldn't. I think the average new car in America or the average person buys a car. I think it's what, five to seven years is car ownership in America. Five to seven years. Yeah.

Lucas:

Yeah. I could definitely see that.

Jacob:

Weirdly enough, I could actually see humanoid robots competing with cars in terms of what people are buying. People might choose not to upgrade their car opting instead to buy one of these humanoid robots because the value proposition is huge.

Lucas:

Yeah. And not just value that you're adding like back into your life, but you now have all the spare time where you could do side ventures. You can, fulfill a creative outlet. You can start up a small business on the side, maybe

Jacob:

a podcast.

Lucas:

You could do a podcast. Yeah, exactly. You have all of this extra time, so you can see it as not just a drain. And, cars aren't drains either, they're of course investments as well, because you have to be able to get places.

Jacob:

It's an investment in the sense that in America you have to have one, but it is definitely a drain, it only depreciates.

Lucas:

yes, but this humanoid robot actively adds not just value, but time back to your life, which is one of the most priceless things.

Jacob:

I absolutely agree, and even if the robot itself does depreciate, the value it's giving to your life is, for me, very worth it. I would happily take on A car payment, if that meant all of the duties I didn't want to do are now gone.

Lucas:

Yeah, but that is, of course, assuming that they can get it to that 20, 000 to 30, 000 range. a lot of the larger companies, they're saying that they can hit that, but some of them are also saying for a robot that can really do everything and do it well, you're looking at 80, 000. And at that point, it becomes more unapproachable. But when we were talking about this and this was a while ago, but you mentioned how there could be like tears of the robot, somebody, maybe right now has a humanoid robot in their home that does some things. but that robot was 200, 000 as like a trial run. But three years in the future, after a couple of updates, they can now rent that out to other people for a cheaper price. And you'll essentially have. People who have the newer versions and then used versions, just like with cars.

Jacob:

Absolutely. I could see that happening. especially as these get more established, there's going to be a secondhand market, of course. And you were mentioning the cost, how they were saying right now, 80, 000 is the best they can, they're reaching. But another benefit of using the humanoid form for robots is because it's this general purpose you can tap into multiple markets at once, you know, a robot that can cook for you can cook at a restaurant. And that gives you huge economies of scale. you can definitely target businesses to fund a bulk of the initial startup cost. And then eventually over time as the equipment gets cheaper, re market them a little bit, maybe less durable materials, for home use.

Lucas:

I could absolutely see that. it would just be difficult because those companies like restaurants, I'm sure if they're willing to go with yours, they'd be looking to maybe purchase four or five at a discount from the manufacturer. That's true too. But, um, but you could see them like in, you know, Star Wars movies, we see these old worn out droids that are used for these more menial tasks. And it definitely could end up being something like that where cooking in restaurants, taking out trash, sweeping the floors are done more by the older bots that are given to them by people who are just trying to sell them off.

Jacob:

It does make me wonder how that'll change things like going to restaurants though, if you can get the same quality of food made for you in your own home.

Lucas:

That's actually a good point. when we're talking about the hit that these robots will have to our economy, as far as like restaurants and things, it's going to be broad in so many ways.

Jacob:

Yeah.

Lucas:

but that's one that I have never really thought of. I guess you would just be doing it for the atmosphere, but realistically you could have your robots set you up a pretty nice atmosphere just at home.

Jacob:

Absolutely. I definitely think for like social situations, you might do it, but I could definitely see people opting to go out less because, why pay an extra surcharge to have the same robot make the same food at a restaurant versus just having your robot that you've already paid off and make it at home, right? Yeah.

Lucas:

they would have to start offering something more premium to get more people to come out, but either way, it's good for the consumer because you either spend less money by going out less or you get a better experience by spending that extra money.

Jacob:

Yeah, true. it's definitely going to be interesting to see how all that plays out. that does bring up a good point though.'cause not only will people be maybe less likely to go out and engage in the economy if they are, robot can handle making this stuff at home. But maybe they'll also be kicked out of the economy, right? if you have robots that can do every single job better, cheaper, faster, is there a risk that's just going to make humans non competitive in the labor market?

Lucas:

that is by far the biggest concern of everyone. I'm sure it's the first thing that crossed our viewers minds when they looked up this, episode is, yeah, they sound great, but What am I going to do to make money? Because like you said, we have a robot that can do everything you can do but better and cheaper for these companies, then why? Then why would they employ people anymore? And there are a few different solutions that, can be put in place to this. But it's either we're heading towards a dystopian future or a utopian. Okay. One where we can have these robots do everything in the workforce, all the jobs that we really don't want to be doing. And we get essentially like a base stipend or universal basic income of some type. And then we're able to just live comfortably and express our more creative side as human individuals.

Jacob:

Would definitely be, I think the best outcome here. Absolutely. Do you think that's realistic?

Lucas:

I definitely think that it could be, but there, of course, the world is run with greed, and, and, and power, and, giving up that, essentially taking out the core fundamental of human society, which is work, you,

Jacob:

Yeah, because there is definitely a concern that if you invent humanoid robots that can do labor cheaper, there could potentially be the largest transfer of wealth to the top 1 percent or whatever. ever seen. we could potentially see humongous, discrepancies between the lower and upper class, and robots could play a role in making that worse in the worst case scenario.

Lucas:

Yeah, you would be essentially looking at people who hold all the power and all the wealth and then our entire workforce who are reduced to nothing but desperation.

Jacob:

So that's also a concern. I definitely think you could see some sort of regulation behind robots going forward. I don't know necessarily if you would have companies outright ban robots. maybe some will, there's a lot of countries out there. but I think they're just, too good, right? I couldn't imagine us just collectively deciding to ban them.

Lucas:

Yeah, it's definitely a clear step into the future of humanity and the way that we progress because all the advancements are too big to give up on just because we can't control a corporate greed or a government power trip.

Jacob:

I definitely don't foresee banning them being the most popular option, I can definitely see a situation maybe where companies pay a tax for every robot they have maybe as a way to fund, like, a universal basic income situation where every time you have a robot replace a human's job, you now have to pay into a tax to Offset the cost of the government funding that person.

Lucas:

Yeah, are we charging the company that produced the robot? Or are we charging the company that employed the robot?

Jacob:

True. I feel like catching it at the end would make more sense. Charging the company that is replacing the job, right? I could also see situations where maybe there's tax incentives if you have a certain size of human workforce, If you have X amount of employees for every certain amount of revenue you produce, you get a tax benefit. Yeah. And I mean, you can justify that tax benefit by saying that you're helping the economy and you're leading to the government needing to support these people less. So it would even make sense to charge these companies less.

Lucas:

It definitely would. And this is such a huge issue because when we think of advancements in the past, we had, checkout machines replace clerks and we had, the computer replace the typewriter, but those have always created more jobs for us to go into. with this, it's going to be different.

Jacob:

It's everything.

Lucas:

Yes, it's not going to be those little jumps that create new jobs. This will be like moving from the candle to the light bulb. We are essentially creating a new step into the future for humanity, and we're going to have to figure out a way to balance that.

Jacob:

Yeah, there's a real risk we might actually just be replacing ourselves, right?

Lucas:

yeah, we definitely could be. And, you know, Don't even get me started on the AI uprising.

Jacob:

Well, yeah, it's funny you mention AI because it feels like, you know, AI just came in over the last five years and is a huge risk of replacing all the thinking jobs. And now humanoid robots might be coming in to replace all the manual jobs as well.

Lucas:

Yeah, when you think of it that way, what do we even do? Yeah, I hope. Why are we here? I hope you're right.

Jacob:

I hope it's the, Utopian future where we get to pursue passion and creativity and really just do whatever we want to do. Cause I don't know about you. I don't really enjoy going to work. I would definitely, if I could get rid of that, I would do it. And I think most people would too, so long as I could still.

Lucas:

Yeah, of course, and that, that comes with all those different issues that we brought up before. It also comes with human competitiveness. a lot of people, they buy nice cars so that they can show off their friends or they buy nice houses. They purchase nice things. But if we're all on universal basic income. And it's not going to be, you make more money, so you buy this. That's just what you decided to spend your amount on. So maybe you have a nice car, but this guy has a really nice kitchen in his house because he decided to spend on a renovation, things like that. So

Jacob:

I always see universal basic income as like a basis, but you can still earn money outside of that. Of

Lucas:

course. Yeah. Because people will always want products made by people. That's special, specialist artisans, content like podcast videos. Of course, we see out there all the time on, YouTube and even in some TV shows, you have artificial intelligence that creates everything. And although it is informative, it's really not the same as watching a human being present that information to you.

Jacob:

I fully agree. You can go and buy custom made shoes, handmade shoes, even today, even though That's not the cheapest option. There's no reason to do it other than it's just nice to have. there's a craftsmanship behind it. And even if you have two products that are around the same amount of quality, when made by a person, when made by a robot, the fact that human hands made this will always carry a certain amount of value to people, I believe, as it should, as a luxury though.

Lucas:

Yes. Yeah, but realistically, when we get into thinking of this utopian society, it's all just going to be luxury. that's, I hope so, right? Right. You know, of course, it has that chance of going Blade Runner? Yeah, Blade Runner, right? You have replicants and stuff is like, you know, it seems like it should be utopian, but it's actually dystopian. And then it's, that's Mind bending thriller type thing. We, we could live in that future too.

Jacob:

I'm personally hoping we don't. I would, I really wanted the Star Trek future, but it seems like every day we're getting further and further away from that. Yeah, though, I think most people do miss the Star Trek didn't get good until after World War three. So

Lucas:

Break some eggs to make an omelet. Yeah, let's maybe

Jacob:

we don't want the Star Trek future. We want our own future That's utopian with robots and we're free to make podcast all day.

Lucas:

wouldn't that be a beautiful? Yeah, exactly

Jacob:

Well, Lucas, I think that's all I have to say about humanoid robots. How about you?

Lucas:

Yeah, I covered a lot, learned a lot from you. I think that's, that's awesome.

Jacob:

Yeah, so I just want to let everyone know that We have started a Patreon. so if you want to support the show, that's a great way to do it. You also get access to episodes a week before everyone else.

Lucas:

And of course, you know, if. It's not something that you can afford, don't donate to that. Please do not go broke

Jacob:

funding our podcast. This is something we enjoy doing. it's okay. But if you do want to support the show and speed up our ability to transition to things like adding video, that's a great way to do it. And like I said, you do get access to episodes a week early and we're always going to be trying to find new benefits to add there. Yeah.

Lucas:

And we do appreciate anything that you do to help. Thank you so much.

Jacob:

Absolutely. Lucas, thank you so much for joining today. I hope everyone enjoyed the episode.

Lucas:

Yeah. Thank you for having me, Jake. You have a great rest of your day.

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