Episode 5- Planting Seeds of Change: How Two Sisters Are Reviving Their Family Ranch

The Texas Soil Sisters, Joanna and Crystal Nuding, share their journey of embracing Holistic Management® to steward their family's fifth-generation cattle ranch in West Texas. Joanna's story begins in California, where she became inspired by regenerative agriculture through her work in the cannabis industry and her exposure to struggling family farms. A family land sale spurred her return to Texas to advocate for sustainable ranching. Crystal, a long-time advocate for organic gardening and soil health, joined forces with Joanna, inspired by books like Gabe Brown’s Dirt to Soil and courses on soil biology.

The sisters discuss the challenges of navigating generational dynamics, including gaining buy-in from their father and uncles, and the complexities of decision-making without full control of the land. Despite resistance, they’ve secured a lease for 30 acres and are implementing regenerative practices, such as planting cover crops and planning to collaborate with the new cattle herd owner. They highlight the importance of holistic goals, community support, and embracing experimentation as they restore degraded soil and create a model of thriving land stewardship in an arid region.

Throughout the conversation, the sisters emphasize collaboration, resilience, and the joy of working with nature. They also share aspirations for their ranch to become an oasis and a hub for education, inspiring other farmers and ranchers to transition to regenerative practices.

Connect with the Texas Soil Sisters:
Instagram: @soilsisterspodcast
Website: https://txsoilsisters.co

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Connect with Christine Martin:
Website: https://thrivinglandsteward.com
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Transcript

Christine: 0:00

Welcome back to Regenerative Agriculture, Thriving as a Modern Rancher. I'm Christine and I'm excited for today's episode. In this conversation, I'm joined by Joanna and Crystal Nuding, the incredible duo behind the Texas Soil Sisters. Together, they're navigating the challenges of generational ranching while embracing the power of holistic management to transform their family's fifth generation cattle ranch in West Texas. You'll hear Joanna's journey of leaving a career in California's cannabis industry to reconnect with her family's land and Crystal's long standing passion for organic gardening and soil health. These two are on a mission to restore degraded lands, improve their ranch's resilience, and inspire others to take a regenerative approach to land stewardship. In this episode, we dive into how they're working through family dynamics, implementing regenerative practices like cover cropping. And building collaborations with stakeholders all while staying rooted in their holistic vision for their land. Their story is one of resilience, experimentation, and hope, and I know it's going to inspire you. Let's jump in. Welcome to the Regenerative Agriculture Thriving as a Modern Rancher, the podcast for ranchers and land stewards looking to build healthy land, profitable businesses, and a fulfilling life. Join us as we explore regenerative practices and holistic management to help you thrive in today's ranching world. Okay. I'm going to ask you about your journey so far with holistic management. but I would love to have you introduce yourself. Who you are, what you do. And my first question that you can embed in there is how did you learn about holistic management? What, made you aware of it and what resonated with you, which allowed you to pursue it?

Jo Nuding: 1:54

All right. I'll kick off with an intro and then I'll toss it over to my sister. I'm Joanna Nuding. I'm one half of the Texas Soil Sisters. You'll hear from the other one in just a second. We actually grew up on a working cattle ranch in West Texas and we are 5th generation members of this working, cattle ranch and I was living out in California. Working in the cannabis industry and working with farmers in Northern California, and began learning about regenerative agriculture through them and was on a farm with some friends. They had a vineyard. They had a heritage family operation and finances, and they just weren't making money anymore. And so they were having. to have these discussions about selling their vineyard. And this is one of the oldest wine families in California. So it became my mission to help them save their operation. And so while I was there, I got word that our family had sold 10, 000 acres of our ranch. And so I started panicking and was talking to an old farmer, rancher, friend of mine in California. And I said, I don't know what to do. I want to get involved. My dad's not really listening to me. And he's your dad's not going to take you seriously while you're living out here in California. You need to get your butt home. So I started making plans to wrap up my life in California. Packed up what I could fit in my car, and I hightailed it back to Texas. I trans started transitioning from a cannabis and hemp focus to a Texas family farming and ranching. Like, how do we solve these problems for so many family farms and ranches that are struggling? And trying to figure out what a succession plan is going to look like. And, Whenever I reached out to my family to begin this dialogue, Crystal was the only one that really felt as passionate about it as I did. So I looked at Crystal and I'm like, okay, have an idea. It's going to take both of us. Are you, in it? And so she said yes, and the Texas Soil Sisters was born. Sis, why don't you add on to that?

Crystal Nuding: 4:39

I am Crystal Nuding. I am the other half of the Texas Soil Sisters, and I have been gardening organically, and Caring deeply about the earth and plants and being way too concerned with how they feel. Although now we're finding out that all on plants are conscious. Absolutely. And so it just really, it's something that I have been and done for a long time. And so Joanna had introduced Gabe Brown's book, For the Love of Soil, and I read that book in two days and cried half the time and was like, duh, this is exactly what we need to do. And then I took Dr. Elaine Ingham's Soil Food Web course and learned so much. of the biology and the science, which I've always been interested in and remember very much of from high school learning. So it was just natural and it makes perfect sense. And when things are right for me, I'm just like, why aren't we like, I can just dump completely whatever I was doing before. When I know that this new thing that I've heard is right. So that was my introduction into regenerative agriculture, which it was just like working with the land and not depleting any one thing so that it could just be continued easily. And that's actually what I've been teaching people as a consciousness coach in my own personal life. So I've been living this holistic management style and When I found, and I don't know if it was through Gabe Brown's book that I heard about holistic management, I think in my mind, I've heard Alan Savory and just the words I've heard it. But I started looking into it in. Probably December, January of last year and printed out all the free material. There's 185 pages in a big binder and I just started going through it and loving it because it really is like, how does this feel if it's not good? If we can't work with that, then it's not going to work for us. So that has been. It was so important to me. I've worked for most of my life in positions that I didn't enjoy doing things that weren't important. And I feel like this for my family, personally, for us as human beings, for my community, for our planet this is the most important thing that we could be doing. The soil is the basis of all of our health. And if we can use the land and use our cattle and animals as tools to support that soil, that supports the plants, that supports the animals, that supports The people and the planet. It just makes sense. So that was our journey. And when Joanna came back to Texas and we recognized what we were facing. We just said, okay, we're not going to fight. We're just moving in our direction and we're going to start doing the things that we know to do, which were take care of the soil, learn as much as I can, read as much as I can watch as many videos, talk to as many people. And so then Joanna's just naturally. She does this is podcasting and moving and shaking and connecting people. This is her world. This is what she does. She's fantastic at it. So it was just natural for us to work together. We're a great team and we compliment each other well and enjoy each other's company and appreciate each other. So it's, been really fun.

Christine: 8:30

That's beautiful. And it's so important to be able to work together and communicate and be on the same page.

Crystal Nuding: 8:38

Yes.

Jo Nuding: 8:40

We found that is half the battle is making sure everyone understands and is on the same page and like contextually you're working from that same point.

Crystal Nuding: 8:51

And I'll also say when there are dust ups or frustrations that come up, ultimately we're going the same direction. So we'll get over it and keep moving in that direction. And it's not that you're going to be happy all the time and everything's going to be sunshine and roses. There's going to be things that happen, hiccups or whatever that you come across or that comes up emotionally through this very emotional work of trying to help people do things differently because people have done what they've done for a very long time. And when you try to get them to change. All like defensiveness and all the stuff that yeah, comes up. So if you understand that's just a part of it and you don't get bogged down in it, you can just get through it and move on. And that is something that I really appreciate about our relationship and who we are as human beings to not get bogged down in the frustration, allow it to be there and then let it go. So failing is something that's going to happen in this, work. This is our life work for everyone in life. Failure is going to happen. So if you can let it go, be okay with what's happening and just move through it. And it makes everything so much more fun.

Christine: 10:09

It does. It does. So you've taken a course in holistic management. How would you describe holistic management as you know it now?

Crystal Nuding: 10:20

It's really putting to practice with the land, like watching how the energy moves and are you getting enough how the water is moving through the system, how the energy is moving through the system. Like just all the principles of holistic management are the principles that we should be living as human beings. We don't have control over any land at the moment to be putting these practices into work. We're starting a cover crop. At the ranch this week, we're going to finally get that in the ground. We've had a lot of rain. Thank you very much down in Stonewall County, Texas. So it really is just feeling through it. Let's seeing what comes up, recognizing what needs to happen next and taking the best. thing that works for us, like what our holistic goal is. I want to be happy. I want to be healthy. I want to be of service and make a positive difference to the people around me. And so always going back to that ultimate holistic goal, because right now, before we have the land to, graze then it really is just living these principles.

Jo Nuding: 11:31

In harmony with that. Right now we are negotiating a lease with our dad and uncles, so that we will have a 30 acre plot and then the old orchard that existed in the first few generations of the land and Just certain spots around the ranch that we are going to be able to create a show and tell opportunity using these Holistic management practices the thing that I've noticed with what we are doing is how strategic we need to be in the up front because my father and one of his brothers just sold our herd of cattle. to another rancher who will be running that on our land. But now it's just okay, we have to create a relationship now with this man. And we need to be on the same page as far as what does the health of the soil, the health of our grasses, the health of the animals what does that look like? We need to be on the same page with this person because. Our father's an excellent land steward and things look. really great, but we don't know this other man. Us being able to be intelligent based on what we've learned and almost working backwards because it's not ours right now. And like, where do we want this to be in 10 years? And being able to have those conversations, make those plans, and get buy in from multiple people now. So I feel like our holistic management, adventures are going to be a lot in collaborating with multiple parties. And so yeah, I think it's, an extra layer of complication, but if we can do it this way, then we'll certainly be able to do it when we're just the ones making decisions on our own.

Christine: 13:43

That's the human aspect of this holistic management holistic management, we talk about the three pillars or the three legged stool, right? The social, the environmental. And then the financial, the human component, the social aspect requires a lot of management, communication, processing emotions giving people the space to express themselves. In previous conversations, you shared that you're not decision makers in the operation of the ranch, right? That still falls with your father and your uncles. But you're starting to have conversations and showing, your father and your uncles that you want to be involved. How is that going? That's been a roller coaster, I will say for sure. And a decade ago. I begin the squeaky wheel saying I would like us to have an annual meeting where all of the stakeholders sit down and we talk about what's happening at the ranch, where might we all be able to add value, where do you need help? The majority of us are girls. There's only one boy there. So the three brothers have lots of girls and the one boy was in the military and now he's out of the military. But he works in, coding or, I don't know, he does something that's very far away from the ranch and he's whatever y'all want to do, I support you. I think the fact that none of us, we aren't boys, so we're not being taken seriously, which is something that grinds my gears in and of itself, but for a decade, Asking to have this meeting and it never happening. So two years ago, after the land was sold and I sent an email with a very detailed this is my vision. This is what I think could happen. This is how I believe that we can make this a successful operation. Let's treat it like a business, not just land that's going to be divided up And it just gets smaller and smaller until there's no value. And I thought I was going to be greeted with curiosity, excitement, that there was some interest, but the response that I got. Was positive from all of my cousins and my sisters, but from the adults on the email thread They reminded me that I was a child. I was a kid and at that time I'm like, I was 46 years old. She was almost 50 and I just was like wow This is interesting. It was like we're not dead yet when we're dead. You can do what you want You And I'm just like that's not setting anybody up for success. So we've come a long way, Christine, I will say that. So now, like I mentioned at the top of the podcast, we are about to sign a lease and be able to use our Soil Sisters farm number to Get involved in some of these NRCS programs and different grants and financial opportunities for us to showcase what we're talking about. It hasn't been easy, but I have learned, especially through us going to Regen Ag school through HMI, that we aren't unique. Our story is not special. Most families go through this. And for me, the big lesson is, I'm not going to be that. I will not ever be the person that's going to stop up the funnel. I am always going to be a how, can we make this work? And, being armed with the information that we learned at Regen Ag school, now I know how to ask the right questions. I know where to look for. Good information. I understand the value of planning for profit and really deeply looking into the enterprises that you're currently involved in and which ones might be better suited, even though it's not something your family has traditionally done. Two years ago, I was in tears and like, why did I even move back to Texas? And now I see a path forward and that's very exciting. Specific questions resonated with you about asking to get everybody on the same page? We're still having siloed conversations. We still haven't had any group meetings. So the thing that I think that I instated or asked for that has been most helpful is for Crystal and I to have a weekly dedicated conversation with our father about what's happening, what we're working on, where we're wanting to go, making sure that He understands, and that the brothers are cool with whatever we want to do, and and that's been nice anyway, because forcing yourself into a routine of having this conversation about the business, but also just checking in on our dad I think that's been nice. Because it's also showing him that we're serious and this is happening. We're doing this, whether we're doing it at the ranch or we're just doing it on our other projects. We're doing it. Giddy up or giddy out as they say.

Crystal Nuding: 20:01

It's been great to have that weekly conversation with daddy, because man, every week I just learn something more and more about. Myself or him or what we need to do or how better handle the situation next time. I've also really noticed energetically when things are like, okay, we shouldn't have had that conversation then. But next time I'll know, because I wasn't feeling, if I'm unable to keep myself calm, we don't need to have the conversation because I'm the only one that's going to do that. He's not going to do that. So it's just, it's, discovery and every time learning something during the conversation, happy to have connected and to have had a minute to touch base. And so that we're here with one another, and him really realizing that we are serious and we are going to do this. And I feel like that's why he came around in the first place is because they put the kibosh on everything. And we said, fine, we'll do it somewhere else. because this is important work and we've got to learn how to do this so when y'all are gone, we know what to do. And that holistic management course that we took, besides the one I took with you, the grazing workshop with Small Producers Initiative in conjunction with the Southern Family Farms and Food Conference. That was so good and it was so great. I knew listening to y'all, you and Wayne. That I wanted to do this. And so then we got connected and we went to the week long course in Decatur. And it was so powerful to connect with people who are like minded, who care the way that we do, and who really want to learn a way to make it beneficial for the land, for the animals and people. And it was just, Thank you. It's encouraging, isn't it? Yes, it is. And to know that if we have questions, or if we need to talk to somebody about something, and they totally will understand where we're coming from, and the family dynamic being a little bit difficult, and just so many good conversations during that week with really, good people. Openhearted people who care so much. And, it really felt like being in good company and understanding that we are family as well. We have our core blood family, but then we create family in a lot of different ways. And so feeling a really close connection with that group of people and knowing, and having already reached out back and forth between a couple of them and just. Excited because we're in the right place at the right time and all the right people are presenting themselves and coming around and, we are getting connected with really people who are excited to move this thing forward and to do things differently.

Christine: 23:03

And I'm so pleased that you found that I was first introduced to holistic management in 2015. And that was the first thing that attracted me was the educators that we had the course that I did was over six months and we met Once a month over a weekend, we were hosted by producers that were implementing holistic management practices and the framework and their operations. So we could see different locations and different goals in place. But that community support. And I'm sure the support is going to be very instrumental with you because I know when I first started my journey, I called my mentors and my cohorts all the time. I'm so pleased that you found community and that resonated with you. Yes. And I'm also very excited. We're going to attend the stockmanship training in, I believe it's early April. Yeah. And that's just another layer that is so important because whenever you are from a farm and ranch family, oftentimes you, you're not learning. What is happening? It's just my dad can drive through a pasture or look at animals and just see and know, but for him to be able to articulate. that to us, like what he's looking at, why, how did he get to, this idea of we need to move these cattle or not or whatever you, we weren't getting that education as kids. We just were ranch hands. We just did whatever chore we were told to do. So Having this community, having people who their entire job is to hold your hand and walk you through and make sure you understand this. That is such a gift for new farmers and ranchers or old farmers and ranchers that are looking to make that transition from just commercial agriculture into regen and holistic management. I'm thrilled by our experience at Regen Ag School and I'm just so looking forward to diving another layer deep into the livestock. So what do you think will be your first challenge in implementing what you learned with holistic management? For us, it's the fact that we're not. Stakeholders, we're, not able to make these decisions for us. It is, being collaborative, cooperative joyfully doing what we can the fact that. We have this 30 acres that we are going to get to do what we want, but I think a lot of it's going to be the negotiating piece of okay, Chad, the new owner of the cattle herd, we want you to come in during this time and mob graze this 30 acres and then get the cattle out. He has to say, yeah, okay, I will do that. Or I don't, I'm not going to come in one day and then move them out the next day. Or so I'm just anticipating that, that we're going to have to be smooth operators and collaborators.

Crystal Nuding: 26:52

And that is the plan, like smooth operators. I love it. You fall off the call and you just jump right back in.

Christine: 27:01

You guys are smooth operators. This gentleman who purchased the cattle I'm assuming he's. Grazing conventionally, set stock, continuous grazing. I don't know. I, think so. We're heading to the ranch on Friday. So in a couple of days we'll be there. We're hopefully going to be able to, get a look at that 30 acres. Just. See the lay of the land one more time before the farmer comes in. Our father sold all of the equipment a number of years ago. He's 77 now. And so we have had another custom farmer that just comes in and does the work for us. So Crystal and I've had a call with him. And we're going to be able to be there, take a look at it before our cool season cover crop goes in, get the lease signed and organized, and hopefully be able to meet the new owner of the herd or be able to have our dad make an introduction so that we can set up a call later, because I'm very curious to know what his intentions are and what's. What his modus operandi is and for us to just ask for that, I feel like there might be a little bit of conflict this isn't any of your business. So yeah, the thing I was just telling somebody yesterday. It helps that Crystal and I are fun and bubbly and attractive women that most farmers will have a meeting with us. Most farmers will talk to us. So we're hoping that we win chat over and that it's great. So that's the intention I'm setting. Yeah. You'll have to keep us updated.

Crystal Nuding: 29:03

We definitely will. I'm excited to go home and check out the land and do a STAC test and just see where we are with what we've got and we want to look at where Chad is going to be grazing and get an idea of what it looks like before he gets started. Okay, so

Christine: 29:22

for the listeners that don't know, can you explain what STAC is?

Crystal Nuding: 29:27

Seeing how much forage is on the land, and also the bullseye test to see What the entire ecosystem looks like. Exactly, so that we have an idea of what he's working with and what it looked like before he got started, so that we have a baseline.

Christine: 29:45

Yeah, so just to clarify, the stack is a method to go out in the pasture and assess the The volume of forage you have available STAC stands for Sole, Toe, ankle and calf, depending on the height of your grass. You can have a pretty good determination of how many animal day days per acre. You can graze and then the bullseye is a monitoring process. That's very easy for you to determine where the four ecosystem functions are doing, how they're doing and. How your management should adjust based on what in the bullseye. So isn't the bullseye fun to do though? Yes, it is. And that was my aha moment at Regen ag school one day was, okay, I don't know what this agreement looks like with the new herd owner of his lease for our land? Is there anything in there that talks about what the land looks like now where it is and is are there any sort of Parameters or a framework around how he's going to utilize our land. So being able to go back and look at this contract to see, and then doing these two tests with Chad so that everybody's on the same page as we learn so often in this industry, context is everything. What you might think is healthy. I might not think it's healthy. So let's just get on the same page of what healthy looks like and go from there. So the 30 acres that he's going to graze, that's part of the lease that you're going to get from your dad? This 30 acres is, yeah, one section of farmland that our dad and uncle, they've fenced off for us. We are in charge of that. If we don't want anybody on it, then nobody's on it. We had planted hemp in that field, and we are dry land farmers, with the health of the soil being zero, no life in the soil whatsoever, and that it had been plowed and having these super hot days, the, hemp seed genetics that we had, they just couldn't handle. This dire situation that we put them in. So we had a failed hemp crop. We had a lot of grass burrs that popped up once we had really big rain, and then we had a lot of Johnson grass there, but our thing is we're not plowing that. We're going to take this cool season mix that Crystal ordered through,

Crystal Nuding: 32:38

what is it? Green cover. Yeah, the green cover.

Christine: 32:41

And these seeds are already inoculated with the good biology. The farmer, we're like, do not plow. We just want you to just sow these seeds directly into this, what looks like a mess. Thanks. And just like the wheels in their brain, just are you sure this is what you want to do? And this is the thing, we're like, yes, we just want diversity of species in the soil. We're, cool with everything competing. And then when it comes time, let's get the 200 head to mob graze it and get them out. And then let's go from there. That's our strategy. And we're just here to experiment and see what happens. And there's no pressure. This is like us planting that industrial hemp crop. It's a soil remediator. So for us, that was just our very first step of moving into this regenerative model. And so this cool season cover crop that we are planting directly we're planning directly into what's there this is step two. So we're just taking these little baby steps and bringing our family along on the ride. How fun. Crystal tell me, about this cover crop seed. How many species, what, do you know what the mix is and is it going to be broadcasted or, you're drilling it in?

Crystal Nuding: 34:13

We're drilling it in and there are four plant families and two species from each. A cereal rye, there's clover, there's hairy vetch, Those are my main 3 that I remember there's a whole list of it. I get

Christine: 34:34

it.

Crystal Nuding: 34:35

Yeah. But anyway, there's a couple of grasses, couple of legumes. A couple of broadleaves and maybe turnips, something like that. So anyway, it's a cold season like a winter mix. So even when it gets cold, they're still going to grow. And the idea is because of all the grass burrs, we have a sandy soil and there really is no organic matter in that soil. There is literally none. And so putting, getting those, having the roots in the soil, even if it's the ones they don't want it's okay. We're going to plant into that and that way it's going to begin to create that humic acid that will keep the grass furs from germinating. So we're hoping to crowd them out and also to slow that germination rate because we're building that humic acid with all the biology on all the roots. So I'm feeling. Very excited about that. And yes, we'll be doing that 60 pounds, 50 or 60 pounds per acre. And using a seed drill. Yeah. A double disc seed drill. It's going to be able to get through that standing cover. And I'm just so excited. We've gotten like four inches of brain or something. So I'm just like, roots in the soil. I know that, for the first time. In how, many years that they didn't plow it up before they planted it. So it's just cause it was ugly. It was, and then it's okay. It was perfect. So now I'm just excited to take another step. And again, it's very helpful. And I just, I feel so grateful that we're not under the gun, that we're not trying to make a living off of this, that we are we're working our other side hustles and. making a living so that we can do this and learn more to share more and what happens. But in the meantime, it's not if we don't do this, we don't eat. And I understand that's where a lot of farmers and ranchers are. And that is also part of the urgency that I feel to find this out, to figure this out, to help. As quickly as possible because people, they don't understand how it can work because they've just been indoctrinated into a system of chemical agriculture and forcing. And I feel like that's what my dad was like, this is my land and I'll do with it what I want. And within a very loving, because he does care about the land and he cares about his cows, but it was just an attitude of I direct this show and our attitude is mother nature. Tell us what to do. Help me understand what you need. And the best way to go about doing that and the best way to go about doing that is honoring my holistic goal so that I can feel as good as I can during the entire process because I'm going to experience struggle and upset and failure and hiccups. So me feeling as good as I can during that process so that I can get through those obstacles as quickly and easily and with a clear goal. Heart and mind so that I can make the best decision and be able to pivot which I feel like is Such an easy thing to think about. If that doesn't work, then just do something different. But that's not the way everyone thinks all the time. And it's just a

Christine: 38:04

lot of that is because a limited resource landowner, they don't feel like they have the luxury of just trying something new. Like I need something to work. I think that's part of it is. They need a show and tell. They need farmers around them that are doing it, and they can see that it's working, and they can ask questions, and they are more willing to try something new because they're seeing positive results from somebody else. I'm not having to try it first. You're trying it first. Yeah, and Gabe Brown shares in his book that the only reason he discovered all this because he was broke. He just had to use what he had available, right? Yeah. So let me ask you on the cover crops. Did you test that decision of the cover crops? What root cause were you trying to address?

Crystal Nuding: 39:02

Root cause. The putting life in the soil, bottom line, that was the number one. That's the easiest. It fills my heart with joy to think about. So then that is my yes in that regard. But putting life in the soil a different variety of microbes, but back the stickers up and. Just put health in the soil. That was my, and testing it, like that was as far as the testing as I got. And

Christine: 39:40

also, this is also because we don't have a budget to just do whatever we want with. It's what is the most impactful thing that we can do with limited resources? And without full buy in from the whole family about what we're doing. We also wanted to add humates to the soil, along with the cover crop. But after a number of discussions, and then this if y'all, you can do whatever you want, but you're paying for it. And I'm like, okay we participated in a pay to grow program for this industrial hemp. And even though we had a failed crop, we brought in 12, 000, we paid 2, 000 out to a farmer. So that means we're up 10, 000. Yeah, sure. We'll take responsibility for this, but we're dipping out of that money for this cover crop. Okay. There's been some interesting negotiations, but a lot of it is just, what is the simplest, most economically effective thing that we can do that makes the most impact?

Crystal Nuding: 40:57

And that is growing these cover crop and then grazing them with the animals. And that is why we're starting, we've got the time between when the cover crop is growing till when they need to be grazed to have conversation and to create the relationship with the farmer to get what we want. I feel very confident that we can do that because we're both smart individuals and we lead with our heart. And I know that we can have a good conversation and share what we're trying to do. And I think he's a younger man as well. So I I'm hoping that he's feeling innovative and wants to try and learn new things. So I'm projecting out there what I love

Christine: 41:46

that. So I do want to ask you Did you assess the risk of spending what however much you spent on the cover crops and them not germinating or not getting the high germination rate that you need to affect change in the soil?

Crystal Nuding: 42:07

Honestly, no, because it doesn't matter that they are going to benefit the soil no matter what if they germinate great and we're going to have the photosynthesis that happens and we're going to draw that down. But if not, it's going to be food for microbes. That wasn't there before. So it is a win situation. And there was It just yeah that was, my thought process is that with all of it, with all of it, whatever we're doing is going to benefit because it is, has not been before. So it's just we are free to fail and try all the things or not and do the basic and the bare minimum because Nothing has been done, but put chemicals on before. So if we just can't go wrong and I'm too excited.

Christine: 42:52

It's this is our rock bottom, we don't really have to worry about that at this point. Now you ask us that question four years from now, we'll have a different conversation, but right now it's just there's Failure. What? We're on the bottom rung of the ladder. If I fall off, it's not gonna hurt.

Crystal Nuding: 43:16

Yeah. With very little family support and buy-in. Sure. So like really what? Whatever we're building the, we're building the soil and I know that's happening with putting those seeds in there. Again, whether they grow or not, and I know that they will. It's building the soil. So that's what I want.

Christine: 43:33

You're claiming it.

Crystal Nuding: 43:37

Darn I am. Yes, because I said so.

Christine: 43:44

So what are your goals for the property? What would you like to promote out of this experience? Ah, I have a beautiful vision of us being an example for the other farmers and ranchers in a very Arid, rugged part of Texas that we can create an oasis on our property, working with nature. And right now with us having the 30 acres and the orchard and access to the headquarters where our intention is to put in rainwater capture. I want, and I can just see people driving up the dirt road to our property and then crossing the cattle guard. And just being like, where am I? Am I, in West Texas? That is what I want. I want to see that. I want our family to be excited to come home and be together. I want us to be able to use this as a teaching tool and have other people. Farmers and ranchers from West Texas that are participating in holistic management and regenerative agriculture to showcase what they're doing to come and educate other farmers in our area. And like you said, when you did your training and you went and visited other ranches through HMI, we have met several other farmers and ranchers in our area that are doing this. And so being able to just. lead by example and be able to grow food in the desert for our family and be able to just share and change the attitudes around farming and ranching, that it's just an existence. Instead of we want farmers and ranchers to thrive. We want people to create enterprises that make them money, that can support their families. And so being able to just showcase what that looks like and what that transition looks like and how it can be of a positive benefit to families. That's, what I want J. D. Patterson Ranch to be.

Crystal Nuding: 46:08

And I'm interested in shifting the microclimate. I really want people to understand that we are in more control of this situation than we currently think. We're, controlling it in a negative way by what we're doing. But I want to help them understand that we can shift the way, this, just the way, we're doing it. you were describing it, rugged, arid, like it doesn't have to be that way. It has been made that way. I'm excited about that. Just the possibilities and the potential to let Mother Nature be what she would be with our support and help and listening and tuning in and using the tools that we have. I know that this is happening. I know this is the changes available and it's here and it's been done. And I've seen the pictures and heard stories and listened to firsthand information about what kind of transformation has happened. So like, why would I not believe that? Why would I not try for that? And that is what we're doing. We are shifting the narrative. From doom and gloom, drama and trauma, to one of helpful and hopeful and solution oriented, joyful, healthy, happy. lifestyle, living, working with community, working with the microbiology and the land and the plants and the animals and each other and community. And we have a wonderful world we're bringing heaven to earth. That is our job and anchoring that knowledge in. In all that we do and sharing that as best we can through our communications with people and helping people see that it can be so much better than it has been.

Christine: 47:54

I love your passion. Both of you are you can tell the glow and the excitement and the passion is amazing and very motivational. I've I'm like, okay, I can do this too. You wouldn't know I'm doing it. Yeah. Yeah. As you were talking about the climate I was at What Good Shall I Do conference earlier this year in Fredericksburg at Roam Ranch and Alejandro Carillo was there and he was sharing that he's been regenerating his Chihuahua desert ranch For a number of years now, and he's been able to convince his neighbors to do it. And so he's actually changing the microclimate. They're getting a lot more rainfall than other areas in that region. It can happen. And I know you guys will make it happen. Yes. He was one of the people that I saw. I didn't see him speak in person. I just watched something online, but him being able to show aerial photos of how he's transforming the land and the climate. It's just this is undeniable. This isn't a pipe dream. This is actually happening. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Not to be a Debbie Downer, but, Amongst the educator community and practitioners I have always asked why is it the neighbors don't change? They see it, here at my place I'm green when it's drought, everybody else is, gray to oxidize or has no grass. But have they ever come to ask me, Christine, what are you doing? Why are you carrying more animals than I am? How come you're not using hay? Never once since 2015 has a neighbor come and asked me what's going on. It's always people further away that recognize it. So I just want to prepare your expectations that, seeing is not always believing it doesn't matter. Yeah. And this is one of the things like the 10, 000 acres that got sold these are hunting enthusiasts and weekend Cowboys. And this is part of my problem with people selling. land in our state is that farming and ranch land is going away. So do I think that the neighbors around me are going to follow our lead? No, I don't because they're doctors and attorneys that live in other cities and they're not real farmers. Unless their

Crystal Nuding: 50:39

wives come up and see the headquarters and then want beautiful space. We catch more flies with honey than we do with vinegar. And I'm so happy to do what we're doing that I, I'm not even in vibrational resonance with anyone. Going against me, aside from our family, like literally that is the only friction that I get. And honestly, I can care less come on or go away. And I'm all the love in the world. No problem. No worries. You, everyone has to do what they resonate with, but I am just, this is thrilling and it's so exciting. And I feel so deeply right place, right time, right people, right subject matter. Like this is it. This is the most important issue of our time. And. We're going to be successful.

Christine: 51:31

You are. You are. We already are. You already are. Yeah, exactly. Good. Thank you so much for talking to me, for sharing. If you're willing, I would love to catch up with you in about a year. And get an update with you and we'll do another podcast and just follow your journey. And next year we'll have lessons learned and aha moments and what worked, what didn't work.

Crystal Nuding: 51:59

I love it. Yes. That

Christine: 52:00

sounds great. Thank you so much for sharing and we'll talk to you later. Thank you so much. Thank you, Christine. And thank you for being a fabulous mentor. Oh, you're welcome. I, was in your boat. 10 years ago. So it's part of the community. We support each other. Amazing. That's why I love it. Thanks for listening to Regenerative Agriculture, Thriving as a Modern Rancher. If you enjoyed today's episode, please subscribe, share with fellow ranchers, and leave a review. Together we can regenerate our lands, our profits, and our lives. Until next time, keep thriving.