Episode 6- Cultivating Resilience and Connection: A Conversation with Bluesette Campbell

In this episode, I sit down with Bluesette Campbell, a Holistic Management Educator, rancher, and passionate advocate for both regenerative agriculture and emotional resilience. Bluesette shares her unique journey from growing up on a sheep ranch in Montana to navigating the challenges of running a multi-generational cattle operation in Canada. Together, we explore the importance of authentic decision-making, the role of emotions in agricultural leadership, and the power of community support in both personal and professional growth.

Bluesette opens up about her upbringing, the hardships she faced as a daughter to a single mother in agriculture in the 80's, and how her path led her to embrace Holistic Management as a framework for life and land stewardship. We dive into the significance of understanding our core values and how they drive effective decision-making, not just in farming but in all areas of life.

Whether you're a seasoned land steward or new to regenerative agriculture, this episode offers valuable insights into creating sustainable, thriving operations while fostering emotional well-being and connection within families and communities. Join us for a candid, heart-felt conversation about finding your place in agriculture, overcoming challenges, and building a legacy of love and growth.

Bluesette also shares her approach to succession planning, her role in mentoring others through the process, and how she integrates Holistic Management principles into both her personal life and her community work. This episode is full of wisdom, vulnerability, and a powerful message about the importance of authenticity, family, and emotional health in regenerative agriculture.

Connect with the Bluesette Campbell:
Facebook: @campbellsbbarcranch
Website: https://B-C Ranch Inc.

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Let's make regenerative ranching and farming more intentional, profitable, and fulfilling. I’d love to hear your biggest takeaway from this episode—DM me on Instagram or schedule a call to chat about it!

Connect with Christine Martin:
Website: https://thrivinglandsteward.com
Email: info@thrivinglandsteward.com

Transcript

Christine: 0:00

Welcome to the Regenerative Agriculture Thriving as a Modern Rancher, the podcast for ranchers and land stewards looking to build healthy land, profitable businesses, and a fulfilling life. Join us as we explore regenerative practices and holistic management to help you thrive in today's ranching world.

Christine Martin: 0:19

Hello, Bluesette how are you?

Bluesette Campbell: 0:22

I'm great. Thank you. Happy to be here.

Christine Martin: 0:25

to have you on the podcast. I would like to start with asking you to introduce yourself, where you are, what you do, and then we'll go from there.

Bluesette Campbell: 0:38

Sure. So blues that is actually my middle name and, I, enjoy it a lot more than using my first name, which is Danielle. And that can be very confusing for folks because on official documents, I need to use my first name, but I've always gone by blues that I was born in Northern Idaho. In the panhandle, very close to the Canadian border, but spent most of my life in Montana, raised on a sheep ranch called the Blue Pines Ranch. So my sister's name is Piney, and so my mom took part of my name and part of her name and Put it together. And so we planted blue spruce trees and they still stand today. The sheep ranch was a dream of my mom's she divorced my dad at a very young age I was four maybe when that happened and she'd always had a vision of raising her daughters in a self sufficient way, being able to produce much of our own necessities of life. And so that journey began. She finally found an operation that she could purchase and make it her own in the early 80s, which was quite a slug, I believe, for a single mom. Raised on a 300 acre sheep ranch, there was some cropping. So it was a mixed farm and we had dairy cows and chickens and pigs and just everything we could. We sold our cream to Wilcoxon's dairy to make ice cream. That was part of my upbringing is milking cows. In fact, it's what. I hear got me into the liberal arts school that I went to college in, what is that? 92. I, wrote about my experience milking cows for years on end and what kind of perseverance and, attitudinal changing that brought for me. And, it sounds very pastoral and lovely. And if we were to get real, I'd say it was. Very difficult. It was, it was heartbreaking in so many ways. My mom faced many challenges as a single parent, many challenges as a, woman in agriculture. I, remember hearing people make comments in the community and she had an uphill battle, but she did have a mentor. She had a, a 72, that's what I remember him being, 72 year old Norwegian sheepherder who guided her in helping her figure out, because she was born in Poughkeepsie, New York, not on a farm, had no experience whatsoever. So we learned by doing. Because of that difficult upbringing, and there were really good moments too, and I have all kinds of skill sets because of that upbringing that I'm very grateful for. Don't misunderstand me. There are so many things that were wonderful about that, but I did not want to spend my life in agriculture based on my previous experience. If this is what agriculture is, do not sign me up. And and I studied abroad in high school trying to get away. I studied abroad in, in college getting away trying to find my place somewhere else. I had a bachelor science degree in geology which took me to some really great places, but never really my calling. And so after I graduated, I spent some time thinking about what am I going to do and was offered. A opportunity to manage a sheep and cattle ranch in South Central Montana, and because I didn't have any other ideas. I took it and that's where my journey in holistic management started because I accepted the position and. Their prerequisite was to take a holistic management course. I didn't know it at the time, was completely unfamiliar but said yes. And that's really the beginning of me wanting to find my place in agriculture, was the understanding that it didn't have to be all about economic struggles, all about an imbalance of work overplay and it just really opened some doors and incidentally at that particular ranch where I took my first course is also where I met my now husband of 25 years, so he was passing through and working on that ranch at the same time. And he began to describe his upbringing, which was nothing like mine. At all, and that was a lens to be able to, see that agriculture had many ways, to navigate through not just one, which was my experience. I, pay a lot of homage to the people who introduced me, Jack and Susan Heineman off the bench ranch. And, Yeah, that's that's where it started. My first course with, was with Roland Kroos. I traveled to take that course into Idaho. So I never really stayed connected with the people that I took the course with, but it definitely stuck with me.

Christine Martin: 6:12

That's amazing. Yeah. I know Roland Kroos. He was one of my interviewers in my exit review when I

Bluesette Campbell: 6:18

Oh, excellent.

Christine Martin: 6:20

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He was a tough tester.

Bluesette Campbell: 6:23

Yes. Yep. I can, imagine.

Christine Martin: 6:27

Yeah. It was good though. It was a good experience to do that final review. But as I hear your story, I can think of so many ways, so many rabbit trails we could delve into. In our conversation before we started the recording, we talked about women, in agriculture and your mother doing this so early on I know I've struggled. Here in East Texas, and I've struggled being a sole female operator here and some of the biases and support. It's crazy. But but I also love how, synchronicity. However, it worked. You were exposed. It seems like you were trying to find your place and then finding your place. Holistic management was part of it.

Bluesette Campbell: 7:20

Essential Actually, you never know, but had I not found, an avenue that put me back in the driver's seat of ag, if I hadn't found that, I just don't think I would be in agriculture. The, upbringing that I had. Which I'm very grateful for was the ability to figure things out. Like we had to problem solve to no end because there was no knowledge base. And so trial, by error or error. Yeah. Trial by error and trial by fire. That's the, term I'm looking for. And so we just did, and that has built a level of resilience and creativity in me, which I don't know that I would otherwise have. I'm very appreciative. I just would never go back and do that childhood again. It was not always fun. And, and and through some of those difficult dark places in, in my childhood, took years of therapy to work through and reconcile to be able to forgive My mom, because she did the best she could with what she had and so to not hold it against her that I was driving a tractor at nine, which I probably should not have been thinking about it's Oh, it's all kinds of things that could have gone wrong. I was reconciling our checking account at 12 and who does that like it's probably not a great idea for somebody in their adolescent brain to be doing the book work. Just maybe not the best policy, but we did, what, we could. And just having moments in my young adulthood to say, it's not her fault. I'm not going to get very far blaming her for all that childhood trauma of having to kill animals to put them out of their misery those are, memories that stick with you for a very long time. And once I found the value in processing. Those childhood stories and not pointing a finger at her, or holding it against her is when I really found that pathway. And I do believe that the work through holistic management in finding what drives me finding my passion, my. Icky guy that, that whole purpose behind my skillset and what I can bring to this world was based in holistic management. Now you might not find that on the website. If you Google holistic management they're, not going to say you can find yourself here, but. But ultimately that's, what it's doing is finding your place and passion and doing that in a responsible way, which happens to have a lot of that resource management background in it.

Christine Martin: 10:32

resonates so much with me. Once the recording is done. I'm going to send this recording to my children because I was your mom. When I moved to Texas, I was trying to honor this calling that I really didn't understand, but I knew I needed to be on land. I knew I didn't need to be in the subdivision with cookie cutter homes. And so I bought five acres. And, my children at that time were, 10 and 3. And I brought in the chickens and we learned how to process the chickens, and we got the dairy cow and, we milked and, I'll never forget. I was milking a cow and my daughter was very good at milking and it was my turn to milk the cow and, I'm milking and just enjoying it, my head on, on her belly and just milking. And my daughter comes by and she goes, Oh mom, you're taking forever. Let me do it. Cause she had much stronger hands but, I'm sure they have some, memories that not quite as pleasant. But to your point, right? Your mother did the best she could. I did the best I could. I, I'm the first generation, my, extended family in, Argentina they, run a ranching operation, but we left and moved. To another country. And then I moved to the States for college. So I, didn't know any better. And this was before YouTube university. And, when I was introduced to holistic management, the framework, it gave me the foundation, the tools, the knowledge to say, okay, now I'm feel I'm better equipped to manage this. And you mentioned the values. I will admit that when we had to start writing, our holistic goal, when I went through the course, struggled with that I didn't know, I didn't recognize was important for me. I knew I had to be on the land, but I couldn't say why. And the other part that I struggled with was I was raised in one culture. And when I came to the States, I was 18 and trying to fit in and trying to become this American person. And so for many years, I was just doing as what was expected because I was trying to fit into this new culture. And so determining who Christine was, what Christine liked, what Christine didn't like boundaries, I don't have to be a people piece or I don't have to do what everybody expects. All this was so evident to me when I went through trying to write my holistic goal and My values and what my quality of life wanted to be. Yeah, thank you for sharing that about your history.

Bluesette Campbell: 13:39

yeah, you're welcome. And I think it's a really essential part. And nobody has the same path. While, we suggest in holistic management that you, create this 3 part goal or this context of that which you desire that's out there that will guide you so that you can make effective decisions towards that. It's not necessarily a linear process. And we, like as humans to create processes that are logical and systematic and step one, step two, so we can check them off and we we get the rise, but it's actually as Alan Savory would, say There is this element of feedback, like this monitoring process. So you get a draft of your three part goal and that's not done. You stepped into this idea and it evolves. And it's a living, breathing document that when revisited frequently, it adds the most value. And this the, idea of fitting in and, following convention, which is a very common practice in agriculture is to say, okay they're doing this and they're doing and they have that piece of equipment. Maybe I should look into that. There's peer learning, but then there's also getting sucked into convention. And when you do things for others agenda as Stephen Covey would say, it's maybe seems urgent, but it's not important to your vision and mission. And so then it feels unauthentic because you're not living out your own values. You're living out somebody else's and that can feel very empty. And so by, focusing on the value base, which is uniquely your own, when I make decisions towards my own context, then I'm living authentically. That's what I call living with integrity because when I want this, but I do things that go the opposite direction, it doesn't feel good. And that's that gut in the, testing questions or holistic management, the last one is considering all of that. Now, how do you feel about it? And, I love that it's the last question because ultimately, is that not what, what really we should get in tune with. Whether it's buying a tractor or spraying a weed or getting into llamas or meat rabbits or whatever, the decision is, should I move to the city? Should I live on the land? What does your gut tell you? Because let's not forget You are very much an integral part of this decision. So I, love that framework. Yeah.

Christine Martin: 16:30

the gut check and I also resonate with your, point that I love that it's the last one and many times. When, my gut just doesn't quite resonate with what testing questions are telling me, I tend to go back to my holistic goal and say, obviously, I haven't recognized, I haven't highlighted something that I, value that I haven't recognized. So usually when I get stuck with the gut saying, this really doesn't feel right, I tend to go back to my holistic goal and determine there's something that's hanging me up here. And what is it? So my holistic goal 12 years in is, very different than the first one did, because now I know myself better to,

Bluesette Campbell: 17:25

And think about it, like sticking to that goal that you wrote 12 years ago, if you were making decisions based on that, it no longer reflects like relevance to you because we, change, we evolve, and so it makes sense that so would your context. You, so would your. Aspirations and your values as we mature in age there's, going. likely going to be a shift. Let's not make decisions today that are based on things that were important to us 12 years ago, essentially.

Christine Martin: 17:57

exactly. Yeah. Yeah. 12 years ago, I still had kids at home. Now they're off on their own and. And I can do whatever I want. I don't have to consider them. So you, eventually married your husband and then what happened?

Bluesette Campbell: 18:16

Yeah. So we were married in Montana and we're trying to figure out where we fit what is it that we are looking for? We both agreed. At that point, we could start to consider agriculture, like what, is that going to look like? And in Montana at the time, it had been about, I want to say, Not quite 20, maybe 10, 10 to 15 years after the movie, A River Runs Through It was filmed and there was this explosion of celebrity realty exchange where property value skyrocketed, a cow could no longer pay for a quarter, like they're just, there wasn't, a clear path for land ownership. My husband and I decided when, before we were married, we agreed that working in business with my mom would probably not be a success in our marriage. And I I don't know how we arrived at that, but we just agreed. We weren't saying never, but. That was not going to be the first option. So we looked around in Montana for maybe finding a place where we could manage together a dynamic duo coming in and take taking charge for absentee owners or whatever the case, and we looked and we, were almost successful, like we had a couple of great interviews and things were looking promising, but nothing really materialized. So we were doing kind of nine to five jobs and trying to make things work. When Mark's parents. Reached out and intentionally invited us to say, if you want to be in agriculture, please know you have a place here and that came as an unconditional invitation, but did have some expectation that if we were to come back and be involved, we don't just move back like we hire facilitator. We figure out how this is going to work. That facilitator happened to be Kelly Sedork, who is a

Christine Martin: 20:31

She's

Bluesette Campbell: 20:32

well known

Christine Martin: 20:32

Yeah.

Bluesette Campbell: 20:33

certified educator. She's a longtime family friend of the Campbell's. And so it was a very good fit. And we decided that would be a very good idea and began took about a two year transition to plan for what that might look like, because it's crossing an international border, it was a little more complicated and with visas and tracking all of that. But so we decided to do that, and we moved to the Bee Bar Sea Ranch, which is a third generation cattle operation. Started in 1948. Mark is third generation, and what I didn't know at the time, but I'm guessing I sensed this deep connection, the understanding, and the land, And the, idea of stewarding the land as opposed to cowboying on this piece of land, wherever that it's a real sense of belonging to, my husband and his family. What I didn't realize is where I landed, which was in. The backyard of Don Campbell who is arguably the grandfather of holistic management in Canada. There are lots of practitioners and no disrespect to many of the people who, led the charge, but because Don and Bev My in laws took it upon themselves in their fifties to say, okay we, believe in this message. We should teach this message. We've found success. Let's share that success with others. So they too can experience that success in agriculture. And my father in law became a mentor of mine very quickly. So we moved in 2002 onto the Bee Bar Sea Ranch with the plan, with a goal. We had written a three part goal. And at that time there were six of us, there was Don and Bev and myself with, Mark and then Mark's brother and his wife, so there were six people managing this cattle operation. And so what we had to do was figure out if there's one family being supported On a 4, 000 acre ranch with approximately four or 500 cows, what needs to happen in order for that same land base to support three families without anybody working outside bringing in off farm income and it took some deliberation. We need to figure out what that was going to look like. And, thank goodness for the guidance and facilitation of Kelly and others. We were able to do that. So fast forward to 2024, the ranch is currently run by me and my husband and his brother Scott. And, I don't think it would be a realistic story for me to say, and everything is just fine. And they lived happily ever after, this is the work. of succession. It it has evolved from where it was when my husband was being raised to where it was when we came back to Canada and started our own family to now. There is that natural evolution. So I was just at the Regen Ag Conference in Brandon, Manitoba, where David Irvine spoke. He was a keynote speaker for Holistic Management Canada to speak, and his topic was the natural evolution of families living on the land.

Christine Martin: 24:11

Oh,

Bluesette Campbell: 24:11

And yeah. And so it's, I think through that lens, it purports like it's ever changing. So you don't just have a generation and then stop and then start the next generation. It is a transfer. It has to happen small pieces over time. And so we're in a position right now, the three of us managing this operation where our kids are now growing up and, doing their own things. Will they come back? Maybe. We're not going to, depend our lives on that we'll leave it as an option and, extend an invitation. But what does that mean for us? That's tricky. That's, really tricky. So we're hiring a facilitator who's going to come in and help us navigate that because succession, Is complex.

Christine Martin: 25:09

When you moved to the ranch, how quickly did you, find your place? Because you, moved into this family. You have your talents and your skills and your values. How did you incorporate that into the Campbell family? How did you find your purpose within the, organization within the ranch? Share with us, if you will,

Bluesette Campbell: 25:34

Yeah, best laid plans. So as I mentioned, we met prior to moving, we met with a facilitator. So we met with Kelly and developed our goal and designed our divisions of responsibilities, like how is this going to work day to day operations, and we didn't do a deep dive into who drives the tractor and who rides the horse and in general, who's responsible for finance, who's responsible for day to day operations, who's responsible for marketing. Or human resource, and so we were able to determine there's an outline of how this is going to work. And we came in. I happen to be three months pregnant with my first child when we actually were able to cross the border and come into Canada. And, so the plan began to unfold. And it worked really well. And then October of 2002, my oldest son, Andrew was born and Andrew was born with a multitude of medical and health complications. And so how that fit into the bigger plan, we did not account for that, obviously, when we wrote our, business plan. And so Mark and I, for the first three months of Andrew's life, we're no longer working on the ranch. Like we were in ICU. In a city five hours away. So we were just removed from that situation. And so my purpose, my fit into the ranch was going to look very differently because of Andrew's, diagnoses. And so it actually shifted the family. Because of that, not just because my labor was no longer there that I couldn't work cause I was attending to and parenting Andrew, but Mark's commitment and work was also divided because there were so many trips and, questionable procedures. And like there just, there was a lot of stress there. So that changed. And what I would say about one of the beauties of working with family is that's a natural place. For that kind of support. Now that doesn't always exist and it doesn't happen for all families. But what I would say is the beauty behind the Campbell family is they, had this piece naturally figured out. And so what happened was we kept getting checks we weren't working on the ranch, but money kept coming to support us in supporting Andrew in the hospital. And if you worked for a nameless corporation. That's not likely to happen. So I'm very grateful for that because that stress of everything that was happening was probably diminished significantly because of the family support that we had, because of the Canadian medical system, because because. So there was, a lot going for us. Now, as Andrew and I had a child three years later, Birch best decision we ever made was to have our children, but That was a really good one to have a second child who, was born, I believe, to show Andrew, what's possible in this world. And they basically grew up as, twins in development and they had each other, which was really great. And so then my purpose was the fill in the blank. So today we need somebody to do this who, who's that going to be? I live my life on call. I have a responsibility on the ranch for human resource. That's my division. Right, now. And so I could do that job, given the nature of being a mother and many other things now alongside adjacent to the ranch was this huge need in our community to support families who are raising children with disabilities. And my volunteer time, then became, in a selfish way and I don't mean that in a bad way but it was a very self serving way. We needed support as a family.

Christine Martin: 29:48

Of course.

Bluesette Campbell: 29:49

very remote. So there aren't maybe the services that other communities have and people are far between because we're in a remote area. People need people. And when you find people that have a similar journey, not the same, but a similar journey, It breaks down barriers of isolation. Adjacent to working on the ranch, when I could, as a mother of young children, I also started a non profit to support families who are raising children with, disabilities. And, that that proved to be also another purpose to give back to the community, which happens to be in our three part ranch goal is that kind of community service and giving back. It, fit within our context.

Christine Martin: 30:37

That's beautiful. It's, wonderful that, you even had the time the, passion, the flexibility to start this. What was very important for you. I'm because I know I'm not as isolated as you are, but being with people who are in the same journey for me, being a single female operator, running this operation and wearing all the hats that I wear community support is so important. You had the time and you had the ability to do that. You had the support from the family that supported you. in that is, I started tearing up, honestly, when you shared that.

Bluesette Campbell: 31:21

Thank you.

Christine Martin: 31:21

You didn't mention this, but your father in law retired.

Bluesette Campbell: 31:28

Actually, just this year so this summer he's 80 years old and he hung up his saddle, so to speak. This, year for the last time he intentionally said. Haven't broken a pelvis or a femur I'm feeling great like this is the time quit while I'm ahead, because around the community you see these older fellows they get bucked off a horse or, Squished by a bale or something, and he, had just said, yep I think it's time. So he did a bit of riding this spring and then just said, I think that's, enough. But that retirement from the labor of the ranch has been, slowly waning from the time we started in 02. It wasn't just okay, on April 15th, I'm done. However, when Donna Bev decided to do more consulting and teaching holistic management courses and he basically worked as labor as an employee to Mark and Scott and I from April or May to whenever the consulting season would start again. So he primarily worked over the winter. So he was just around during the growing season, more or less, and then he was traveling. So we had to adapt to that shortage or gap in labor. Already, but over the years as he did less and less, especially during the growing season, like checking cows during calving moving cows taking salt out or whatever that is, there's a void there for sure. There's a labor hole to fill. And to support these three families we've increased our herd but we didn't really increase our labor we were decreasing the labor so we were still figuring out that balance of how much work there. So as Don retired. He then focused a little bit more on teaching, and then now he's retired from teaching. And I think he started to phase out around 2016, 2017 to retire from that. And that's when I began to fill that role and started teaching and consulting and, doing that. But it wasn't until just this past year that I made it a formal decision to get certified through HMI.

Christine Martin: 33:48

So share with us why you opted to start teaching and sharing this knowledge with others.

Bluesette Campbell: 33:57

The model that was before me was the success in the Campbell family ranch and Don and Bev's willingness to share that story, good and bad all the things that they tried and didn't work. And of course, the successes and their desire to share with other people. And then the result of that. That result of that extension of vulnerability and authenticity with others, and then seeing the results in those families and the gratitude and the thankfulness, and then how much joy it brought Don and Bev in their work. 3 part goal that we share our ideas and experiences with others in our community. That's what we aim to do and sharing holistic management and the pillars and the tools, grazing, planning land planning and financial planning and goal setting sharing those with others brings a tremendous amount of satisfaction. I'm not only living out my personal purpose, but also fulfilling our, ranch's goals, which is to share those. So it made sense to me. And I, toggled back and forth about whether or not to formalize my education through HMI, through Holistic Management International, to become a Certified to teach because I was already sharing our experiences with others. It doesn't say you must be certified in our holistic goal. And do I take the time when I'm running a nonprofit, other volunteer work, running a business with my husband and my brother in law, Was it a value and what it came down to was Alan Savory dedicated his life to this work. And I can honor him in that way to say, yes, this is very important. And in the end, if I'm certified, might I have the ability to reach more people to teach the teachers? So what's the next generation of certified educators look like? And this might allow me the platform to do that. And so I did.

Christine Martin: 36:22

That's fabulous. And we're so blessed to have you as an educator to share all your experience and wisdom and insights. I did want to ask, you mentioned labor, are you offering internships what, is your strategy on getting labor on the ranch?

Bluesette Campbell: 36:43

Yeah. I've thought of multiple ideas. Having a demonstration site, a grazing school, 2 or 3 months in the summer, bringing multiple people in. And I think the most successful model for us. About what we want to teach. And what will sustain the movement over time is working with one on one. Now, that also is confined by the amount of time and energy and you know what works for the ranch, but we provide an internship. It's a nine month program. So you come in the spring around the 15th of March around the cattle cycle, basically. An individual would come and be here for calving, for the, grazing season for riding and, animal health animal husbandry, they get, that horsemanship and all the way to weaning and setting up for winter feeding. From December to March, it's basically just grazing, there's not a ton of activity. There's still plenty of work. Don't get me wrong.

Christine Martin: 38:01

Course

Bluesette Campbell: 38:02

It, does become more monotonous in, the learning aspect. There's still much to be learned, but so we've landed on this nine month and that internship then includes learning practically and in a classroom, all of the concepts of the basics of the foundations, And then it also includes a six day course. So whether I'm teaching that or it's somewhere else will provide the tuition and, travel and expenses for that, and then an annual conference. So a gathering of some sort, those are all included in that internship. So we think it's like a pretty broad sphere of experience to learn the concepts. And then interns can walk away with their three part goal, financial plan. A strategic plan where am I headed in three to five years, or maybe even a business plan if they know they want to get into agriculture is land ownership in their future is renting land or finding. We have a pretty large network after 40 years of holistic management, maybe we can connect them with somebody who doesn't have kids that are looking to take over so maybe, we could match them with somebody like that so there's lots of opportunity built in that internship.

Christine Martin: 39:20

That's beautiful.

Bluesette Campbell: 39:21

It's really fun. We just, went to this conference in Manitoba and we got there and we brought our intern, our current intern the past intern from year 21 and 22 was there. And then an intern from 2018 was there and an intern from 2016 was there. So

Christine Martin: 39:38

fabulous.

Bluesette Campbell: 39:39

we got this generation of multiple interns picture with Don, who essentially is the root of all this learning.

Christine Martin: 39:50

Don is a wonderful human being. I love his writing.

Bluesette Campbell: 39:54

Yes.

Christine Martin: 39:54

you're teaching, are you seeing any trend in who's, interested in learning how to manage holistically and, share with me what your experience has been As you've been educating and who the participants are.

Bluesette Campbell: 40:13

Yeah, I think what's of note is that I remember Don and Bev talking about as they were setting up their, courses and their consulting and their work is that, it's, difficult to market. It's. A holistic management course. You can bait people in by saying we'll help you double your grass. Sure. People will show for that. When you talk about finances now a little bit more than say 20 or 30 years ago, people didn't really want to talk about their finances or didn't want to know whether they were making money or not. But certainly selling a course that says get in touch with your feelings. Let's figure out who you really are that's, it's a hard one to sell. That's not all we're selling that's not all we're teaching about. It's this holistic living off the land and What drives you that's so those challenges still exist. I have more work than I know what to do with. Don't get me wrong, but there's a lot of conversation in quote unquote, selling a six day course or any type of course, or some one on one consulting because people, it's not, a label, it's not something you just explain In a sticker of what you're going to learn. It's a conversation. And so finding people who are willing to have that conversation. It can be difficult. Now, having said that, I have yet to create business cards brochures. I'm going to have my name on our ranch website, which does not get a lot of traffic because we don't really sell anything necessarily. I have more work than I need. So I'm a little bit afraid, honestly, to advertise because then I would be faced with, okay, so where am I going in this career? Is this my sole career? What, does that look like? So, what I see is that there is a slight shift in people willing to have that conversation that are seeking. And what I find interesting about that is that usually in agriculture, people are seeking when things are tough because they don't know where else to turn. And yes, prices and inflation and the political climate and there is definitely some uncertainty, nothing like we experienced during the pandemic, but there are some struggles. But right now, cattle prices in Canada in North America, they're very high, they're very profitable, can be very profitable. And yet what I'm seeing is,

Christine Martin: 42:56

if

Bluesette Campbell: 42:56

you're selling.

Christine Martin: 42:57

if you have to buy, this is not a good time.

Bluesette Campbell: 43:00

Yeah. But what I'm seeing is that people are seeking and I think what they're hungry for and what they're open to more is having that value based conversation. Why is it that we're struggling? Why, what there's no excuse. We're bringing in money. So what's, the issue? Why is there still some tension and why? So people are seeking at this conference. Where David Irvine spoke, he talked about those difficult moments. He talked about constantly being in a fight or flight state and that it's impossible to be in a growth mindset when you're under stress.

Christine Martin: 43:44

Yes.

Bluesette Campbell: 43:44

So how do you figure out how to relieve this stress so that you can be in a growth mindset or a C state? And so it just really, it, I think it spoke to people. Because it helps explain why they feel like they do. And so what I'm seeing in trends is that there's, especially with the younger generation, they are more willing to quickly go there. I don't have a lot of resistance when I'm talking to people about, I know you want to get to the soil health. I know you want to double your grass. I know you want to create a grazing plan. Until you figure out, Your three part goal. Those questions about how long do you stay? When do you come back? How much feed do we buy? All those things depend on what really drives you. And so there's less resistance to that. It's not zero, but there's certainly less. So that's a trend. And, I've always been a big proponent in my marketing. That. Because often it's the mom or the wife or the sister who calls to say, Oh my God, can you help us? Like we just need help. And, I will spend most of my time encouraging them that while I can work with you individually, we can do some one on one coaching and mentorship and, that might be helpful to you. But as you change and grow, if you're not bringing along the people around you, that's going to be really frustrating, could be very frustrating. And it might. Extinguish your motivation to try to do better and grow. So I really encourage people to bring spouses, families, in laws, brother. They don't even have to be people who are involved in the operation. It's just creating your own circle of support around you. That makes a lot of sense. And I'm finding a lot of success in that because people will bring their spouse. Or their hired hand and and, her husband, even if he's I don't know, an engineer or construction worker or something that they can come and have at least those basic conversations around what drives, what are the values of this family and creating deeper meaning and understanding?

Christine Martin: 45:58

So why is it that the women are calling you?

Bluesette Campbell: 46:03

I think because it takes, It takes courage to admit that, that, tension comes from lack of communication tension comes from not engaging in authentic or effective communication with others. And so when there's tension, I think men tend to be, and I don't want to put anybody in a box because it's not always this way, but there's less at stake for a woman to call and say we're falling apart. Because in a masculine role, we should have everything together. We should be able to do it on our own. Or That stuff doesn't really matter. In the end, just get out there and work a little bit harder. That's what has been taught. So that's not pointing a finger or blaming anyone. It's just where we currently are. Let's not ignore what, what currently exists. But I do, think that's shifting. I've had multiple calls from fathers and husbands and brothers to, I hope that's a sustainable trend that it doesn't matter who calls and just recognizing that maybe some facilitated communication could help through those. sticky bits. But I'm also noticing as I look at my calendar for what November through February looks like, there's a rapid increase in events for women. I'm, speaking on Thursday at Emerge, which is a brand new conference for women in ag. We've got a, an engagement up in northern Alberta, in the peace country northern women in ag. I had somebody call yesterday to say, we'd really like to take a holistic management course, but can it just be all women? So I'll, disclaim first by saying, as I mentioned before, we get further ahead and there's more learning when we're all present because of that support. And yet having been raised by a single mom in agriculture, where the uphill battle for making it in a man's world, like getting a loan, even. It took her years to find somebody who would loan her money because she didn't have a man. That just, it makes me vomit in my mouth a little bit. That just is, but that's where we were in the 80s. And I, get that it feels more psychologically safe to learn in the presence of other women. However, the long term sustainable model for me is when you have the courage to say to your spouse, if they happen to be male to your, father, I'm looking for support for you to be there while I evolve, will you be there? And what I find my synopsis fire when I'm doing self reflection. So I can journal and I can meditate, I can do whatever and I can learn and grow. So when I learn and grow, when I do that self reflection with others, So it's not really self reflection anymore. It is, but it's in the presence of others, which I'm calling collaborative introspection. So like that we're, learning together as a group that's long term sustainability, because now you've created this accountability. circle for who you say you want to be. Somebody experiences that and they can support you when, it's easy to go back to the familiar. So I really love this idea. And so if you learn and learn and you're so pumped and you're so excited to spend six days focused on, yes, this is what I want to do. Then you go home and you're like, you wouldn't believe what I learned. And they're like, Oh, okay. Yeah. Maybe it was, better when you were there that's great. Good for you. And so it's really hard to share that excitement if they haven't experienced it. And I think this is the most important piece. If I learn and grow and I begin to evolve or change the fear that others around me experience that if I change, what does that mean for them? If they're not there to witness why you're doing it. They might resist that. And so then you find somebody growing and changing and somebody staying or regressing. You're creating a divide that can sometimes be irreparable. And I don't want to be a part of that. So I make a big disclaimer to people. Yes, I will support you in this endeavor to learn with other women. I get it's a hard road to hoe. So I will be there alongside you, but I'm constantly promoting be careful. Be careful and aware and cognizant of what you create, and I see it in our communities. And this is really important to me. I see in our communities were surrounded by five reserves or reservations as they're called in the U. S. And, truth and reconciliation is really important to recognize the mistakes of the past. And I fully believe that and get what I see in our actions as a country. Is that we sustain the division by saying, you can have your own school on this reserve, you can have your own games, and not that anybody should, be saying you can have here's your gift, but that the more we divide ourselves. The farther we get, and I see it in inclusion. So back to this whole world of disability, fighting for an inclusive society where everyone is valued and supported for who they are, for their own unique gifts and abilities. If we say, Oh but, you're disabled. Oh, you have autism. Oh, you have cerebral palsy. Our, tendency to set apart is so strong. And so what I see is that. We say we want to be together. We want white people. We want natives. To be together. And yet our actions and our decisions do not lead us towards that. They go away. So remember when I was talking about being authentic and living with integrity is when you make decisions towards what you want. So this is what we want. This is what we say we want. And yet we're making decisions that take us farther away and it feels gross. It just does not fit. It doesn't sit with me. It's a part of my personal passion. My statement of purpose is that I exist to create more love in the world. And that I can be a key to help unlock some of these passages of clarity for myself, definitely, but for others, and that I foster healing in people land and communities. And however, I can do that is ever changing. It looks different every single day, but I'm open to that and I'm using holistic management as a way, because it resonates with people. Once they practice, they see that value. That's

Christine Martin: 53:35

Bluzette. And I, knew of you, but in this conversation, you're my sister from another mother, because, I,

Bluesette Campbell: 53:47

awesome.

Christine Martin: 53:48

I have focused, the reason I'm doing what I'm doing is I healed myself of health issues by cleaning up my diet. The reason I'm ranching is I want to produce food that is nutrient dense, that is improving our ecosystem functions, improving the health of our soil. But it's so that the, rate of sickness that we're experiencing in our children and in our grandchildren is greatly reduced. So I'm going about it differently. But having been raised in different cultures I respect, I love what we all can bring together. If it wasn't like you're white, you're brown, you're native, you're not we all, we can all live together and we can all share this wisdom and experience. Yes. So I love what you're doing.

Bluesette Campbell: 54:43

Thank you. Yeah. Likewise. And I think that there's space for all of us.

Christine Martin: 54:49

Yes.

Bluesette Campbell: 54:49

what I do isn't right. It's not the right thing to do. There are so many ways to learn and to move through this together. And saving, a lot of space and open mindedness for all those ways to coexist. I think, yeah, I just try to keep an open mind about that myself.

Christine Martin: 55:12

Yeah. And, that I have found a female sole operator here, have found that the, biggest struggle and challenge is the lack of open mindedness and

Bluesette Campbell: 55:31

Can I, ask you a question about that? So why, do you think because I have my own ideas about. Why I think that is, but what, is it about human nature that prevents the open mindedness

Christine Martin: 55:48

Fear,

Bluesette Campbell: 55:50

fear Of, what?

Christine Martin: 55:53

Fear of the unknown, fear of failure, fear. Fear that they're going to feel uncomfortable. It's, just fear. And, I say this because this was my experience, right? When I moved to the States from Latin America, I was 18 years old and very naive. And my emotional intelligence was what it is today. and I, was not my authentic self because I tried to fit into this American culture so that I would be accepted because my first impression was if I express who I am, not going to make friends. People, if you're different, they're like, Ooh,

Bluesette Campbell: 56:37

Yeah I, would agree. And I think our, willingness to acknowledge. That fear, because it's been societally seen as a weakness. If you're afraid of something you you're less than. And, one of my tactics in teaching in consulting or mentoring and coaching is to help people see that's actually a strength when you know, when you have awareness about that. That's where the healing comes from. So in your, personal circumstances, if you're able to go back to that time when you had to put up that guard as a coping mechanism to say if, they're not going to accept me for this. What happens when I change, what happens when I adapt and try to fit in, you might see instant results like, oh, now they seem to like me. And so that becomes just a an M. O. That's your, mode of operation,

Christine Martin: 57:36

conditioned tendency

Bluesette Campbell: 57:37

To, yeah to, protect you're, reaching out for connection, but when you're authentic, it gets You know, squished or, you feel hurt or whatever. So you put up protection and it's that very protection that prevents us from having the connection that we desire in my belief. And so in part of my work, when I'm working with, say, an intergenerational farming family. Where they feel self professed, we're great. We're such good communicators. Everything is going tickety boo. I don't question that until I start to see behaviors that tell me otherwise. And don't get me wrong. Like I'm not a counselor. I'm not a therapist. I don't have a degree in social work. I have a degree in geology. That tells you something. And yet I'm open minded to this idea that People live and they get hurt and then they act accordingly. So if I can help them go back to that time when they were hurt or where they had to put up that guard. I was working with a family where there was a dad and two boys and they were all farming together and he was stepping away. And they had all kinds of ideas about what they wanted to do with poly cropping and integrating livestock and doing some really interesting and fun things. And. In his words, he was saying, I believe it I support you, whatever, whatever. And then in, in the same sentence would say, as long as you don't lose money or cause this is my retirement and if you fail, I fail. And those. Those kinds of things, which then, negates everything about that. And that's where I step in and say, what I heard you say was that you're very open minded and you communicate really well. My experience is, what I just witnessed, is that it's conditional. Your open mindedness is conditional as long as it aligns with what you believe is right or wrong, then it's okay. But if it's wrong, then you can't do it. You don't say that, but you act that and and that's, a, that sometimes ruffles a little bit of feathers. And I wouldn't quite say it in that delivery. I'm a little more diplomatic than that. But if they're coming to me for words of advice or encouragement or a course in a learning. I'm not effective in my role if I'm afraid to say something like that, that I observe. Like it's no skin off my back. I want well for these people. That's my job. That's what I'm there to do. And so I need to get past my own barriers. And so I can model by doing. What I'm talking about in a course.

Christine Martin: 1:00:26

And it takes a lot of courage to face that fear to admit. I find in my own therapy and as I've coached, people that I'm working with, it's that support say it's okay to feel this way. We understand why, how is that serving you now? We, have to address that. And as a former people pleaser, it's taken a lot of work to, get to recognizing, okay, this Christine is this way and bringing that back in maturity helps age helps as I'm getting older, it's I don't care what people think. I'm just going to do what I want.

Bluesette Campbell: 1:01:10

Yeah, you feel the ticking of time. It's I don't have time to beat around the bush here drop my message and walk away.

Christine Martin: 1:01:17

And it was stopping me from doing from, progressing from being effective. I have this passion, I have this vision of what I want my life to be and how I want to serve others and help other land stewards be thriving have thriving operations. A lot of times we're our own roadblock and until we resolve that, then all sorts of opportunities come up our process, our business skills, our community and relationships, all these things get affected by it.

Bluesette Campbell: 1:01:54

Yeah, and I think that's a really good point, Christine, because the, what I find, the common denominator Of what prevents people from getting what they want, they might identify it as we don't have enough grass or our soil is depleted. So we're not getting the yields that we need. Of course, we need to add some synthetic fertilizers, for example, or their financials do not reflect what they've been trying to get. There's something in the way. And it's logical to say, okay, so our financials don't look the way we want them to. We're not meeting our profitability. goals. So let's work on our financial planning. That does make logical sense. But as you mentioned, like often what stands in the way of us getting what we want, whether it's doubling our grass or having certain yields or our profitability margin often stems from the interpersonal skills that we are lacking or resistant to or something. And so part of my job is to help people see that. That intrinsic connection between what is standing in their way from that profitability margin, or the gain on their grass cattle so it's not that the people pillar, or the social pillar of holistic management is more important than anything, it's that it permeates through every other pillar. of the operation. And so part of what I do is I put a little bit of a microscope on that to say, are you sure you're not reaching your profitability margin because you're spending too much? What if it were something else? What if it was your fear of making money? What if it was what you learned in the past about how to manage money? Are you willing to let that go in order to, so letting go. As most people wouldn't consider that to be part of a financial planning process, but my goodness, it really does.

Christine Martin: 1:03:57

huge component. Yeah. Huge component. Yeah.

Bluesette Campbell: 1:04:00

Yeah,

Christine Martin: 1:04:00

If your experience as a child is that you had money one day and you don't have money the other day and you see your parents fight over money that's, going to affect how you manage things now.

Bluesette Campbell: 1:04:12

of course, your brain will go back to the familiar.

Christine Martin: 1:04:14

Right,

Bluesette Campbell: 1:04:15

and I, do think that some reflection and learning with others can help pave that way to recognize. Another example that I wanted to share with you is that, cowboys cowboys, they go out and they work really hard. Cow people. So when I say cowboy, men and women go out and they, work because animals don't necessarily talk back in the same way, right? You can, connect to your horse. You can connect to the animals. And if you desire, low stress livestock handling and that pastoral understanding flight zones and moving and working your dog there's all these amazing connections with animals that you can have. And yet, you blow your, top every once in a while, like you have this outburst of anger that nobody, not even the animals can sense is about to happen because you don't even know what's going to happen, but something sets you off. That is not about the animal, it has nothing to do with the animal and yet issues unresolved fears. Covered up over time, allow for that volcano of emotion to, release itself that it just, it gets to a point of burst, but it is not about that animal that is an interpersonal self reflective piece and no longer are we striving towards low, No stress livestock handling, because if I lose my temper and I remember specifically being I think I was a teenager at the time and I was trying to suckle a new lamb on a sheep that what didn't want to have anything to do with her and I was mad and it's probably three in the morning and I'm in my pajamas and overalls. And I was just, I was pissed. I, And she turns around and butts me with her head in the hip, knocks me over flat. I land on the lamb. I was so mad. I lost my marbles. I just totally let loose on her. I ended up like pulling her and banging her against the jug and I bit her ear and I punched her nose and I was not proud of that. In fact, I felt awful, but it had nothing really to do with the sheep at all. It was a level of pent up frustration and emotion when it just so happened to come out on this sheep and I'm not proud of that. And I she was fine and I, think we just pulled the lamb and grafted onto something else but, that's the, key to unlock those passages of clarity for people is that it has nothing to do with your heart when you take it out on your horse. It's not about the horse.

Christine Martin: 1:06:59

Thank you for sharing that and being vulnerable that way. I will be honest, I have had similar episodes too. And I was not a young woman, I was a little bit older. To your point these emotions, whether we acknowledge them or not, they do pent up and they tend to your body has only a certain amount of capacity to keep all that in. And, so I find when I start getting frustrated and it's Oh, then I know I need to go and, whether it's meditation, whether it's grounding, whether it's go listen to some classical music, whatever it is that helps you put things in perspective and say, Hey, Is this, is this really as important as you're making it to be,

Bluesette Campbell: 1:07:49

Yeah Think, yeah, that's masking I think masking and it's at its core is about not acknowledging those things and putting on visually like putting on a facade. To manage through that emotion. So if I just pretend to be a Pollyanna and wear rose colored glasses in public about all the things like, Oh, there's a silver lining and all there's the glass is half full and that's important sometimes, but if I'm doing it unauthentically, then when I'm alone or in that moment and the the sheep really makes me mad. That's where it's going to surface.

Christine Martin: 1:08:28

of

Bluesette Campbell: 1:08:28

And so masking it's a, tool but it also can be a barrier, a significant barrier. So I think it's really important to, to that self reflective piece of, am I masking, or is this my authentic self and yeah, that can be such a essential cornerstone to personal development.

Christine Martin: 1:08:50

So I'll share because I've been a single corporate. Employee with Children and then running. I call it my homesteading phase when I was still in corporate America and playing on my land. Because I was managing all of these different components. Efficiency and time management has been how I've kept it all together. And when I start I've got plans and I'm being very strategic about what I'm doing, and when I start getting angry at that thing that isn't working, that's not not doing as expected, that's when I know, okay, Christine, you've got to sit back, time doesn't run according to you, you need to, just slow down, put things in perspective. And it's much easier. Unfortunately I didn't learn this until a little bit later. So my, children still have a little bit of trauma about. that rigidity that I had just because I felt like I had to manage all these different balls all at the same time, as I'm sure you have similar memories of your mother with running her operation.

Bluesette Campbell: 1:10:08

I was just going to ask if you're willing have you forgiven yourself for those moments? Like I hear you say and that's, what I think is so essential is, to also recognize within ourselves that we're doing the best we can with what we have. And that you've mentioned, you have adult children now, they're off doing their own things and they may have some of those, memories, those traumatic things that they need to work through. But what, I help people see in my courses and in my work is that there's a difference between the work that you have to do and the work that others do. And them working through that trauma is now their work. But your work would be somewhere in, have I forgiven myself for those moments? And not to say that's easy, and I certainly don't have it all figured out and I haven't done that, but there are certainly moments as a mother that I think, Whoa, like I clearly have some work to do there and to let go of some of those previous actions.

Christine Martin: 1:11:14

have the last four or five years. It's been interesting how I left corporate America to be a full time rancher and then became a certified educator. And there's nothing like exposing your own issues when you're trying to coach other people. And you're like Ooh I,

Bluesette Campbell: 1:11:36

Yeah, exactly.

Christine Martin: 1:11:40

I can't preach it if I'm not doing it.

Bluesette Campbell: 1:11:43

Exactly.

Christine Martin: 1:11:44

And

Bluesette Campbell: 1:11:44

true.

Christine Martin: 1:11:45

being in nature and seeing the life cycle, life, death struggles mother nature throwing us all these curve balls that can be huge stressors. It has honestly been a time of a lot of self reflection of healing. I've discovered EFT tapping. And as I shared before we started the recording, I have gone through so many boxes of Kleenex as I process these emotions and, put them in the right perspective, because a lot of times we have these experience. they're traumatic or emotional. We don't always process them at the time and our body really needs to process these emotions, whether it's anger, whether it's frustration, whether it's disappointment, whether it's abandonment, all of these things. So Yeah. I have forgiven now some things are constant, but, now I have the tools and the skill and the awareness to recognize, oops, I'm falling into that tendency. I've got, to do what I need to do to, not go where, that would lead me.

Bluesette Campbell: 1:12:56

Yeah, I just had a recent experience. So part of what I'm also doing in my work with nonprofit the nonprofit corporation that I started is bringing the tools of holistic management into so helping them define their mission their statement of purpose, and being able to identify behaviors and systems, things that they can do to get them towards this purpose, and what the long term vision is. And I've been trying it out on smaller, non not profit or, community boards for a while. But as of late, I'm dipping into as a consultant into larger community organizations. And using the principles because as Alan has said that this is a decision making framework, it doesn't matter if you're in agriculture or not. It works really well because of this resource component, this management component of natural resources. But applying the decision testing questions and decision making matrix to boards. I'm finding like is a whole new area. And so

Christine Martin: 1:14:07

Yes

Bluesette Campbell: 1:14:08

vision of people in agriculture that live off the land and produce high quality nutrient dense food that our bodies need and crave. How does that relate to the rest of the world? To me, most people who. write policy create legislation, enforce legislation are so far removed from the food systems that sustain them, that they're writing policy for things that they know nothing of necessarily, and vice versa. We're, doing all these things, but the people who were doing them for don't understand why or where or how we're doing them. And so this urban rural disconnect, I think, will not solely be bridged. But can partially be bridged by me doing my work. inside agriculture, but maybe even more importantly, outside agriculture. My love is for the families and helping families succeed through succession on the land, just very much like our vegetative species do when there's bare ground, dandelions come and then they turn into something else. That happens on the land too, but I also think that maybe there's this component, simultaneous, Working with things that are not in agriculture, if we're going to have that Malcolm Gladwell tipping point where people are like, Oh, holistic decision making. Oh this not just regenerative agriculture, not just about soil health principles, but how do we make more effective decisions? Yeah, maybe we'll see national debts begin to drop because of that financial responsibility. I don't know. We'll see. That gets really big.

Christine Martin: 1:16:03

But I agree with you. I think the holistic management framework, especially the decision making process, it, can be very effective when used in policymaking and governmental. We have a

Bluesette Campbell: 1:16:17

Research.

Christine: 1:16:18

we have a colleague in Colorado who, has been a mayor for many years and he's implementing the three part goal, the statement of purpose, the decision making in determining policy for his town, and he's been very effective addressing the economic viability of the town, tourism, all of these other aspects. Water management has been phenomenal.

Bluesette Campbell: 1:16:44

Yeah. Yeah, it's exciting.

Christine Martin: 1:16:46

effective. Yeah. And I know our own holistic management international board recognize that they needed to be using the statement of purpose and the decision even as a board to figure out the future of, that nonprofit organization. So We're, doing what we're preaching, which is

Bluesette Campbell: 1:17:06

Yeah, exactly. I we, recently had, so I currently sit as president of Holistic Management Canada, and we also had this realization about five years ago we've, got our three part goal and it just needed to, evolve along with us. But we, Started reporting our financials through our financial planning lens. So being able to sort which were wealth generating expenses or top priority and those kinds of things. And then also, we created a grazing plan, which we, call it the grazing plan, but it's, our, operational plan.

Christine Martin: 1:17:40

Okay.

Bluesette Campbell: 1:17:41

and it's, based off of the, planning calendar. Where you could use a worksheet to say this is when we calve, this is when we lamb, this is when we plant and making sure to try to spread things out a little bit and manage time that way we create our operational plan, which is our essentially our the grazing plan was to, think about recovery and having you can't have too much in one particular area and spreading things out and reaching all of the areas that we want to attain in our three part goal, about creating a network that sustains people on land and communities. That's so do. Yeah.

Christine Martin: 1:18:20

that. I love

Bluesette Campbell: 1:18:21

Yeah. It's

Christine Martin: 1:18:22

That's a

Bluesette Campbell: 1:18:22

very cool. Yeah,

Christine Martin: 1:18:25

Fabulous. Bluesette, I could spend a lot more time talking to you, but we can't make this recording endless. So is there anything that you would like to share that I haven't asked you that you think is important? Any message that you would like to put out there?

Bluesette Campbell: 1:18:42

I think our way through whatever barriers when I say the way through, I think the way through is by getting in touch and acknowledging emotion as a tool, because what we know is that when we sweep it under the rug, it's not working. It's not effective. And that takes courage and vulnerability and connection with others. And so that's what I'm out there doing. Through many different ways of helping people connect on a very integral basis. And when I do that, I see positive results. So I'm very happy to have shared some of our, conversation today, doing similar things, but in in different ways and appreciate having colleagues like yourself. That motivate and inspire me to do more and be better at what I do. So thank you for that.

Christine Martin: 1:19:41

Thank you. The reason I invited you on the podcast is because I have always admired you and you are an inspiration. So thank you for, sharing all you did. And I'm, and if you're willing, there might be another podcast or two so that we can continue this conversation.

Bluesette Campbell: 1:19:56

Of course. Part one, part two coming soon. Okay. Great. Thank you so much.

Christine Martin: 1:20:02

you so much.

Bluesette Campbell: 1:20:03

It was a pleasure. Bye.

Christine Martin: 1:20:05

you. Bye.

Christine: 1:20:08

Thanks for listening to Regenerative Agriculture, Thriving as a Modern Rancher. If you enjoyed today's episode, please subscribe, share with fellow ranchers, and leave a review. Together we can regenerate our lands, our profits, and our lives. Until next time, keep thriving.