Regenerative Agriculture: Thriving as a Modern Rancher

Episode 18- Riffle Farms: Bison, Balance, and Business

• Christine Martin • Season 1 • Episode 18

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In this interview episode, I sit down with Liz Riffle of Riffle Farms, a bison rancher and holistic land steward in West Virginia. Liz shares her journey from being dubbed the “crazy bison lady” to running a thriving multi-enterprise farm rooted in regenerative principles. We talk about how she discovered the Holistic Management® framework, scaled from 7 to 50 bison on just 130 acres, and built a business that supports her land, family, and community. From fencing lessons to value-added products, Liz offers honest insights into what it really takes to raise bison holistically—and why listening to nature always pays off.

Check out Riffle Farms here: https://www.rifflefarms.com/

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Christine:

Okay. We have with us Liz. Thank you for being here. And I would like to start by having you introduce yourself. Describe your operation where you're at.

Liz Riffle-3:

Yeah, definitely. Thank you Christine, this morning for having me on. I appreciate that. I, so my name is Liz Riffle. I am the owner of Riffle Farms. We raise bison in Terra Alto, West Virginia. And we actually just opened another store though, out in the Norfolk, Virginia area. So I'm, a little bit all over the place, but it's been good.

Christine Martin-2:

That's great. And your store is selling your own products or are you also have other local producers in the store?

Liz Riffle-3:

So it's both. We definitely are bison heavy'cause that's what we do best. But we wanted it to be a one-stop shop for the community. So we definitely brought in some of our other farmer friends to make it a little bit more of a robust. Stop for folks, and it is twofold too. It, gives these farmers another outlet to sell their products. Just like we, were looking for, we wanted something that was not quite as seasonal as the farmer's markets. Farmer's markets are lovely and it's a wonderful season when that season comes back around. But in the winter, what do you do as a farmer? Most of us have farms all year round, so we have to sell our stuff all year round.

Christine Martin-2:

Congratulations on the new store. That's exciting. Yeah. He so I'm in Texas and I have the benefit that with the weather is conducive, that we can have a farmer's market open year round.

Liz Riffle-3:

Yeah. Yeah. Up here, that's not necessarily the case. It's much, much too cold. Yeah.

Christine Martin-2:

Exactly.

Liz Riffle-3:

even where I am at the beach, it's too cold,

Christine Martin-2:

I hear you. Not that it doesn't get cold. I've been at the farmer's market when it snowed, we're tough. So let me ask you, I like to share stories of land stewards who have implemented the holistic management framework. How were you introduced to the holistic management framework and why does it resonate with you?

Liz Riffle-3:

Yeah, definitely. Mine was a long journey. I didn't find holistic management until I already had the farm and had the bison, and I just couldn't find the answers. I was looking for as, a farmer rancher who was looking to do what was right for not only the animal, but also for the land. So we do not operate on a large, mass of land. We only have about 132 acres for us to operate on. So I knew if I wanted to grass feed and grass finish. The bison that I had to take very good care of the soil and the grasses to make sure that we didn't overdo it. This is a very large animal. It's easy to overdo it when you leave them on a space for too long and then you can kiss your grass goodbye. So I knew enough to know that. How about that? When we got into the business in 2017, we, my husband and I, we did not come from a ranching background. So we learned this stuff on the fly. The only background I had was in equestrian, like horseback riding and raising horses and training horses. So I knew, enough probably to be dangerous about with large animals. But I knew that they were gonna eat a lot of grass and so we started to ask questions of our local. University extension agents, the NRCS platforms, the farm service agency. And in 2000 and in 2017 and 2018, they really looked at me like I was crazy. I was the crazy bison lady who not only had bison but then also wanted to graft, finish them. And that was basically unheard of. Where we were prior to 2020. They're like sure, put'em on grass, but supplement them with grain. And I was like I, don't wanna do that. I don't wanna purchase the grain. I don't wanna keep the grain. Because then you have a whole nother issue there too. There's pests and rodents that also want to eat that. That's a problem. Plus I didn't like the way bison finished on grain, so I kept getting pushback and I couldn't find anybody to help me just grow grass. Grow it well and grow a lot of it. They were like I guess if you wanted to grow grass here, you could spray all of this multiflora rows and all of this blackberry and turn it into grass, and we could give you the seed to do that, but you need the machinery to be able to seed. And I was like, this sounds way too hard and I'm not spraying any of this, I'm not going to just kill it all off like that. I just felt like I knew. Deep inside of me that wasn't the right answer is to spray it because Mother Nature is here and she's here to stay, and we just have to learn how to work with her instead of against her. And so spraying to me is only a bandaid, right? You spray the multi-floor rows, but it's going to come back if you don't truly understand why it's there to begin with and how to actually manage it. Since I couldn't find the assistance that I needed locally, I started doing a ton of research and a lot of reading. I picked up a really wonderful book called Wild Like Flowers that was written by Daniel Griffith. And I ca so I read it and I was like, you're speaking my language. Okay. Just having a sense of the animal understanding where, what your soils have gone through, just like through the generations. He was really eloquent. He is a writer and obviously has written many books. So eloquence is his thing, but it really resonated with me. And so I called him up one day and I was like, Hey, talk to me more about this. Why can't I find anybody to give me some answers? Do you have answers for me? Do you consult? And he's yes, I do actually consult. And I am a consultant through the Savory Institute. I was like, great, what's savory? And began my journey from that perspective into Savory and Alan and all the things that he's done across the world from a holistic management standpoint. And I was hooked right then and there. I was like, yes, these are my people. This is what I'm looking for. This is what I wanna emulate on my space. And I just ran with it.

Christine Martin-2:

I understand. And Daniel, you're right. Daniel is a, very beautiful writer. I love where his books take me. Huge fan.

Liz Riffle-3:

Yeah.

Christine Martin-2:

Huge fan. You mentioned you wanted to work with nature. Why does that resonate with you? What, values does that? Trigger for you.

Liz Riffle-3:

Sure. So for me it's, I knew growing up in the horse world that we spent a lot of time and effort. Trying to beat mother Nature out, whether that was, trying to get rid of weed or just, something as simple as recognizing the fence line when you wanted to use electricity for horses. You were constantly trying to keep that fence line clear brush and, it just, to me didn't really make sense that you would put all this time and effort. To work against Mother Nature instead of figuring out maybe how to work around it or work with her. And using some of those natural buffer places and maybe not putting electricity where a lot of those briers tend to grow anyways. Most horses won't go through it anyways'cause there's a bunch of thorns, right? So why are we trying to put electric fencing right here? There's big, huge, beautiful blackberry bushes. Just let'em grow. Yeah, there may be a fence somewhere in the bushes, but I don't think the horse is gonna go through there. So at a, young age, that even occurred to me because maybe I was the one who was out there. My dad's the electric fence doesn't work, Liz go trim all those blackberry bushes. And that's a lot of work at 12 years old. So, yeah, so it really. I guess made sense to me from a young age, like work smarter, not harder. And I feel like when you grow up on a farm, young you, can see some of that stuff because you're cheap manual labor. So if anybody has to work harder, it's gonna be you.

Christine Martin-2:

I know that's why in previous years before the Industrial Revolution, families had lots of kids, right? Because that was cheap labor.

Liz Riffle-3:

Totally. Yeah, I get it. Yeah. Oh yeah.

Christine Martin-2:

One of the big aspects that I love about the, Holistic Management Framework is it is value-based because in, in my mind, in my heart. We are all unique, right? You, have your values, your goals, I have my values, my goals and so this one size fits all recipe really doesn't work very effectively. It, can work, but you're spending a lot of money on inputs and you're forcing things and you're, to your point, you're not working with nature.

Liz Riffle-3:

Right.

Christine Martin-2:

how has this framework that we create this holistic goal or the holistic context that is a three part component. That base starts with our values and describes our future vision. How has that impacted your operation?

Liz Riffle-3:

Yeah first and foremost, it allowed me to, operate on the land that I already had, I didn't have to go out and buy another farm to be able to grass finish these bison to get more grass. The answer was actually utilizing the acreage I had better. So right there in and of itself, that saved me hundreds of thousands of dollars in purchasing another piece of property. So when you talk about it from the bottom line standpoint, that and of itself has paid dividends. We didn't have to go buy another farm. Because that was really again, when I was talking to NRCS and FSA, they're like, you're not gonna be able to do this on the property. You have, you need to go probably get another farm, or you just can only run 10 bison. And I was like I can't make a living raising 10 bisons. That's not gonna work real good. By dialing in. How the grasses grow and how I could rotate better on my property. I get to just use the property I have and not have to buy another piece or lease another piece of property. So that made a lot of dollars and sense to me.

Christine Martin-2:

sure. For the listeners that might be new land stewards and haven't had the experience of working with NRCS and some of these other agencies, in your opinion, what is their premise when they give you these recommendations, what are they assuming you're management style is gonna be?

Liz Riffle-3:

Oh, they assume that I'm going to have a more intensive management style a little bit. Maybe the traditional model. Lots of tractors, lots of implements, lots of inputs. So fertilizer spraying everything to kill it all off, then fertilizing it, then fencing it out, or fencing it in, drilling seeds in. That's just the very traditional model that they. Assume I'm just gonna fall in line with, and they're used to operating from that perspective and assisting folks from that perspective. So when I come in and say, no, I don't want any of these things, but I still want your help, they're standing there scratching their heads.

Christine Martin-2:

Yeah and, that was my experience too, 20 years ago when I started my land stewardship journey, it was the same thing. They're like you need to buy a tractor and you need to drill and then you need to buy the seed and this fertilizer. I'm like wait, I I don't have that kind of money. I don't want all

Liz Riffle-3:

Right.

Christine Martin-2:

I'm not a mechanic. I don't wanna deal with tractor.

Liz Riffle-3:

Yes. Yes.

Christine Martin-2:

with this holistic management, how has your productivity on your 130 acres developed? Improved?

Liz Riffle-3:

Yeah, definitely. We started with seven bison and so now we're upwards of 40. We've had a max of 50 on the property. And the property will be able to hold about 90 to a hundred once we finish fencing it in. I feel like that's my second full-time job is fencing. But that's really what we spend a lot of our time doing is fencing versus tilling and drilling and seeding and fertilizing. I am able to run my operation with one full-time employee. That's it. All of those bites in are able to be there, fed, watered, taken care of with one person because we. Are able to move those animals around and use their intact instincts to move. I don't need an entire, army of people to herd them anywhere. Literally, we have dialed it into the point where these animals, after a couple days, they're standing there at the gate and they're ready to move themselves. You open the gate and that's it. So one person is able to. Manage all these bisons and that is a huge deal for my bottom line, right? I only have to have one full-time employee technically. We've been able to do other things to make us profitable instead, so I'm able to hire another employee to help me in the commercial kitchen instead making value added products. And that right there generates more revenue than just trying to have three or four people running tractors and moving animals every day. So that's a big one for us.

Christine Martin-2:

yeah. And the growth from the seven bison to the, 40 50 that you currently have. How long did that take?

Liz Riffle-3:

Yeah, so we did a little bit of both breeding our own and bringing in some high quality stock. We got to like production numbers. I would term it, in 2019. So we had about 30, maybe 32 animals at that point where we were able to harvest enough animals to do farmer's markets on the regular. And now we're at the point though, where we go through, gosh, we're going through almost half a bison a week. Now, which is a lot.

Christine Martin-2:

That is a lot.

Liz Riffle-3:

Yeah. And then some people are probably quickly doing the math in their brain right now, and that doesn't track out with the amount of animals I currently have on my space, which that is correct. So while we're in the process of expanding our fencing, because like I said, I do a lot of that, we're hoping maybe this winter or middle of next year we'll be able to. I get everything fenced in and be able to have, 70 to 90 animals on our own property. But right now I'm custom grazing them with some wonderful, like-minded friends in Wisconsin and actually up in Alberta, Canada.'cause they also have some beautiful grass up there. But yeah, it's been an interesting dynamic like once we. Once we were able to grass, finish these animals and provide them to the community, there was an overwhelming desire for the meat. And we wanted to make sure that as that customer base grew, we were keeping up with it. We're like firing in all cylinders right now to make sure that we can keep up with that half a b in a week thing.

Christine Martin-2:

That's fabulous. That's wonderful. So tell us a little bit about the fencing required for the bison.

Liz Riffle-3:

Yeah, a lot of people think that it's, Jurassic Park fencing and it's actually not. It's it's really just five feet high. And it's high tinsel wire and we, make two of the wires hot, and that's really about it.

Christine Martin-2:

Really

Liz Riffle-3:

yeah. So it's the second from the top and the second from the bottom.

Christine Martin-2:

Okay.

Liz Riffle-3:

Yeah. So as a deterrent to be honest with you, we are fortunate that we are very rural. I'm at the top of a mountain and my closest neighbor is probably about two miles away, and there's 600 acres of forest behind me that has nobody on it. So if my bison get out, I do have a little bit of extra time to collect them before they would get into somebody's garden. So that is nice. So that's another reason why maybe I'm able to get away with this type of fencing, as some people would say in the business. But also, to be honest with you, bison are very smart. They're very athletic, and the best fencing is actually just keeping the bison happy where they are. They have enough space so that they're not fighting with each other. There's enough water, there's enough mineral, there's enough for them to eat, and as long as all of those things are there for them, there's no reason for them to, get out of the fence. Most of the time we do have an animal here and there hop out. Literally, they will jump the five feet to where the grass is greener sometimes. But give'em about an hour and they're like, wait a second, where's the rest of the herd? I'm all I'm by myself. Could and they actually walk themselves over back to the gate and just stand there waiting for somebody to let them back in.

Christine Martin-2:

That's

Liz Riffle-3:

So

Christine Martin-2:

didn't know that about them.

Liz Riffle-3:

yeah, they're so herd bound that if onesie, twosies gets out, it's really not a problem. We would maybe have a problem if the entire herd went over a fence. But to be honest with you, we we've been doing this for almost seven years. That has never happened to us. And, yeah, it really hasn't been a, been an issue just having the five feet tall high tinsel wire for us.

Christine Martin-2:

So when you bring in animals to add to your herd, are you training them to that electrical fence before you put them out there? Or does the herd teach each other?

Liz Riffle-3:

I would say the herd teaches each other, to be honest with you. I do not train them to it. Yeah, it's only a matter of a time before they brush up against it and it's. Shocking. But I don't put'em into a small enclosure and make sure that it's on and, see, what they do with it. Most of the time it's just trial and error when they get out there.

Christine Martin-2:

sure. With respect to water systems and stuff, they're big animals, so they need a lot of water.

Liz Riffle-3:

They do. Yeah.

Christine Martin-2:

the water to get them to all these different areas of your acreage?

Liz Riffle-3:

Yeah. We actually have a, we bought the property in 2017 and it already had an underground watering system, so it had piping to the majority of the pastures. We have expanded on that. So it is an automatic watering system and we use what they call the, oh goodness. Oh, the green jugs where it's an automatic feeding system So the bison have figured that out, right? Which doesn't take'em long. They drink out of that little. It's like a really mini reservoir, but the water just keeps pumping out and they have figured out how that works. So not only does it keep it a little bit cleaner because bison love to wallow if you give'em a big water trough, they'll try and dunk their heads in it. They'll put their feet in it. So this helps keep it clean. It also helps, a little bit into the winter time period to prevent it from freezing. And then it's automatic, so it just pulls from the well we did find out that our bison drank a ton of water and the well could not keep up with it, especially because we're at the top of the drainage. They go through about 500 gallons of water a day. So the well could not keep up. But. Almost 18 months ago, we put in a reservoir that is fed off of the barn roof. So we collect water off of the roofs of our barns now and keep it in a big tank as our backup. And we're actually in the process of doing that on a second barn for extra backup.

Christine Martin-2:

Yeah, I would imagine that they need a lot of water.

Liz Riffle-3:

They do. And that's a really good way to have bison get out

Christine Martin-2:

Sure.

Liz Riffle-3:

of your fencing when they need water, so they will go search for it. So we wanna keep them happy and so that's, we gotta make sure we have good water supply, a big piece of it.

Christine Martin-2:

You made a comment that the bison need enough space that they don't feel crowded. One of the tools that we have within the framework is animal impact and, density. have you played around with increasing the density when you move these animals or is that a,

Liz Riffle-3:

Yes.

Christine Martin-2:

disaster?

Liz Riffle-3:

So it is a recipe for disaster, but we have still played around with it

Christine Martin-2:

Okay.

Liz Riffle-3:

per right. Per the holistic management recommendation. It is hammer to sweeten. So the more animal impact you have and the more frequently you move them, great. Bison do not operate that way. Innately, yes, they are the original regenerative story. They definitely would have moved across the prairie. In tight packed herds. But they had enough space to get away from each other if that was necessary. So we tried to dial it in like you would for cattle and really put'em on top of each other, and fed them in that way. And they became quite aggressive and I actually lost a handful of calves doing that. We have figured out that for our herd, anything smaller than a three acre pasture for 50 animals is too small,

Christine Martin-2:

Really.

Liz Riffle-3:

For us. So, we have to manage from that perspective and that adds a little extra nuance to what we do and how we do things. And how we get that animal impact that we do need and the rest that we do need on our property. But yeah, we figured that, out the hard way, that we couldn't really put'em as tight as most managers can with their cows, honestly.

Christine Martin-2:

And everybody has to learn what works for them on their land, right? And, as we improve soil health and improve productivity, that could change. But it's always about testing those boundaries, right?

Liz Riffle-3:

Most definitely.

Christine Martin-2:

So are bison the only enterprise that you have? think I heard between the lines that you've got other enterprises that you've also got to derive more income.

Liz Riffle-3:

We do. The bison, we utilize them just for agritourism enterprises. So we do tours and tastings, we do camping, we do farm to table dinners. So we do different events. That I would consider an additional enterprise and definitely an additional revenue stream.

Christine Martin-2:

And now you have the direct to consumer store.

Liz Riffle-3:

Yes, we do. Yes, that's true. Yeah.

Christine Martin-2:

As, educators and coaches when I

Liz Riffle-3:

speak

Christine Martin-2:

to a new land steward they have this vision of this. Operation that has got all these different enterprises, the chickens and the, cattle and the sheep and the dairy cow and all of these things. And as a new land steward, can be very overwhelming. It can also get very frustrating'cause the learning curve is high. You started with the bison, how quickly did you add in the other enterprises?

Liz Riffle-3:

So that's a great question. Probably. We had the bison and maybe a year into it we started adding tours just because people were curious. They're like, Hey. They asked me, they're like, can we come see the bison? And I was like, sure. Of course you can. That sounds awesome. So we started letting people come up and then I realized that I could do this in big groups and make a little bit of money doing that. So, it was probably about a year in when I tapped into that. Then as word got out about what we had and what we were doing, I had some local chefs who also got in touch with me and they were like, Hey, would you be interested in hosting a farm to table dinner? So we did our first farm to table dinner in 2019. It was great. We had a blast. It's a lot of hard work to do, a farm to heal dinner, but it was still a ton of fun. So those things just came and they came organically. I wasn't necessarily searching for them. We just had enough interest and people asked me to do those things. And so I realized that we could do those dinners and events on the regular. And then it occurred to me as well, that since we're so rural, it would be cool if we're gonna get people up here for dinners and things like that. Wouldn't it be cool to have a camping spot? And so we put in camping though, probably, oh gosh, when was that? I guess 2020. 2020. Yes. It was 2020 because everything shut down with COVID and people weren't staying places and they were doing a lot of camping. And so we're like, perfect. You guys can come see us and be out in the fresh air and be in your own place and we don't have to worry about wearing masks and things like that. So that's how that got up and running. So that was just really a product of COVID-19 and the need for people to get away and get out and about. So

Christine Martin-2:

That's great and you mentioned earlier you have a commercial kitchen for value added product. What are you making in your commercial kitchen?

Liz Riffle-3:

yeah, so right now we focus on making. Mozzarella stuffed bison meatballs. One of our most popular sellers. Yes. So we do that. We also make a bison chili. We do bone broth because when we, get animals back in the processor, I like to utilize as much of that animal as possible and I hate, and they throw things away. So I ask them for even the bones back that aren't those fancy marrow bones. And we make bone broth out of them. We also, what else I do? I do a mac and cheese, a bison, mac and cheese. We use local cheeses and what else do we do? Those are the big things. Occasionally we will add a a shepherd's pie or a meatloaf to that. But our biggest production are those items that I just mentioned.

Christine Martin-2:

I, had the smile when you mentioned the, bones, because like you. I believe in using nose to tail. So I got as much as the processors would allow me. I get everything back and learned very quickly that, I, started selling at the farmer's market in 2015 and I had bones available to purchase and people liked the concept of broth, but they didn't really to make the broth.

Liz Riffle-3:

Exactly. That's a labor of love right there, so

Christine Martin-2:

of love. And it ended up being, a weak link, a financial weak link because I had all these bones sitting, taking up space in my freezer And not moving them. So I too built a commercial kitchen and make the value added broth. And it's been a fabulous way of moving those bones and. Because you are a direct to consumer consumers like the convenience of having prepared food. So

Liz Riffle-3:

definitely. Yep.

Christine Martin-2:

we can do that, it is also a higher margin product too. So the revenue, the income from that is also very good for the bottom line.

Liz Riffle-3:

Yes, I would agree wholeheartedly. And for us too, it was just because we raise a novel protein, a lot of folks were actually uncomfortable cooking it. And so if I could offer them something that was actually pre-made and they just had to warm up, they were a lot more apt to try it out. As well. So

Christine Martin-2:

Yeah. Yeah.

Liz Riffle-3:

for those customers who are I don't know, I've never had bison before, what do I do with it?

Christine Martin-2:

Sure, Yeah, and I found that the commercial kitchen has been very helpful to move those slower moving cuts that tend to stay a little longer. I'm, multi-species. I do cattle. I used to do sheep until last summer, and then I do turkeys year round and chickens. And for some reason Turkey wings and Turkey drumsticks, tend to be a slow mover, but the minute I started preparing them in the kitchen and offering those, now they're my biggest sellers.

Liz Riffle-3:

Yeah, that's a prime example right there. Yes. Perfect example.

Christine Martin-2:

Exactly. So on your dinners you have chefs come in and prepare the dinners for you.

Liz Riffle-3:

Yes. We typically do that. It's a lot of work to do it yourself. So we usually. Collaborate with like-minded chefs who already know, the area and the clientele and maybe some of the farmers that they've already worked with. And maybe using veggies or other novel food stuffs that they've cooked with before. So we just lean on each other. I've got the space and I've got the bison, but they have the knowledge, the culinary knowledge to really pull it all together. So I love to do it with a chef because I don't feel like I'm so exposed and out there and trying different things that clients may or may not like. The restaurant business is a very interesting business. When you wanna feed people, you may come up with something that you think is amazing and great, and it's something your family eats on the regular, but 150 people may not think that's the greatest thing ever. So we really lean into their expertise. It's nice to have. Their perspective from the planning, side of the house, plus it's an extra set of hands. Usually they bring in their own staff and their own people to serve the food the way that they want it to be cooked and handled. Because like I said I run a very lean operation. I don't have a ton of staff running around to be able to serve 150 people a plated meal. When you bring in a chef, they usually know how to get their hands on enough people to help them out. And so that's been really cool. We've had a lot of fun doing that.

Christine Martin-2:

They are, a lot of fun. I also do ranch table dinners, but I do it in a much smaller scale. I don't have 150 people. I'm originally from Argentina, and so I offer Argentine style barbecue, here on the ranch and, I'm generally the one at the grill manning it because I, have trained a couple of young men to. Help me grill all this meat. But, their, schedules get very busy too. So, yes, I I totally understand that the amount of work involved in putting on these meals, but it is so much fun and I love it because it creates community. Even if it's just for that night, people come in not knowing and, but before the end of the meal they're sharing. info and stories and just enjoying themselves. So it is always such a big blessing for me.

Liz Riffle-3:

Yeah breaking bread with others is really one of the. Simplest and, truest forms of community. Like people have been doing that since the beginning of time sharing meals together and you really get a sense of, learning about people and learning about the food that, that you're displaying and, having eaten. And for me too, it was always my husband, his. The quickest way to a man's heart, but really anybody's heart is through their stomach. Honestly, if you feed'em, they're always much happier. Yeah, so we love to do those types of things. It's been a lot of fun.

Christine Martin-2:

Yeah. And it's also a very good tool to advocate for what you're doing. I know that once they start eating the meats that I'm taking off the grill, they're like, oh my goodness, this tastes fabulous. And what did you put on it? I said, I've only put salt on it. The rest is what they've eaten and, the nutrition that they're getting off the soil. And, so it's, a great way to advertise and help educate them into this different way of managing the land.

Liz Riffle-3:

Most definitely, and it gives them some ideas of what they can do with the meats when they go home.

Christine Martin-2:

Of course. So you have a lot of enterprises. How are you managing the staff, all of the moving parts, the financial aspects of all of this. Your, quality of life. You're a young mother, you're a spouse, you've got a lot of things that you're taking care of. How do you manage all of this?

Liz Riffle-3:

Yes. To be honest with you this is my full-time job now, so that's nice. And I, gosh, I've always had, two jobs. So this to me is okay, I get to do this and just be with my boys, which is actually easier for me because. Even when I was active duty military, I always had a side hustle or I was always teaching or something on the side. So for me, it feels like having a full-time job actually is less work than I used to be doing. So that's good. But I also have wonderful people around me. Friends and family, hands down have been. Undeniably helpful in regards to managing my daily life. So a big piece of it is my mom, she lives with us and she helps me out with my boys so that I can focus on getting to the store when I need to be there. If I have to go to the farm for four days and do something with a bison that isn't necessarily appropriate for a 2-year-old to be around with I can do that. And she's there to support me with my little, men, which is a, which is great. We do now employ, two and a half staff. They would say it's 2.5 FTEs from, staff. And I've grown into that. It's taken me seven years to grow into that and be very cautious about who I'm bringing in to the operation and how I'm paying them. But between. Having my mom help me out with the kids and having a couple extra staff members, it really has made a big difference in my quality of life. And we are definitely able to go on vacations and leave the farm. And, yes just things regular, families do, we are able to do those things. It took me a few years to really work that out, but we're in a place now where we. Have been able to do that and it's been great, honestly.

Christine Martin-2:

I'm glad to hear that you were able to find people.'cause I struggle with finding people who, want to do this crazy work.

Liz Riffle-3:

I know who wanna do it as badly as you do. It is, it's very hard to find people like that. And like I said, we've really leaned into a lot of family. The majority of my full-time employees are family, but we pay them. They're W2 employees we're not just paying'em on the table. And then I do have a couple folks who have become wonderful friends now who are, employees as well, but. It took us years. It took us years to hone in on the types of people who would actually take care of the business like we do personally.

Christine Martin-2:

So how do you get them all on the same page? Are you having regular meetings? Are you developing your holistic context? Is it available for everybody to see how do you empower them to make decisions?

Liz Riffle-3:

Yeah, that is so interesting that you mention that. So most definitely. I have shared my holistic context with all of my employees. They know my perspective and where I am making decisions from. Okay. So when I tell them that I don't need them to move animals this day, or I need them to keep a special eye on a certain family unit of bison, they understand where I'm coming from. But to be honest with you, a lot of the management stems from my husband and I working hand in hand together. So I wear multiple hats in the business. I have the overarching. View of where I want things to go and how I want to have things managed. But our two full on time employees are actually his brothers, so they're my in-laws. And he speaks their language probably a little bit better than I do. So from a guy perspective, right? They're big, burly men. One of'em was a diesel mechanic by trade. He was not into farming originally. And so. he grew up with them. He speaks their language. And so when I'm asking them to count the wild flowers out there and they're looking at me like, I've got five heads Jimmy, my husband is able to translate that into something that makes sense to a diesel mechanic. So my husband and I play very well off each other from, that, which is super helpful. My mom, that's easy because she's really always been on my side. I've learned what I do from her, so that's a simple transaction. And then other staff members that have come in to either help us with big events or my part-time staff member is just a really good friend of mine who's also in the small business world and does farmer's market. Those are easy conversations to have because a lot of what we do on a daily basis is very similar anyways, but yeah, but I will, say my husband is probably the linchpin on helping to make the operation run smoothly,

Christine Martin-2:

that's fabulous. And when decisions need to be made is, it you and your husband? Who else are decision makers in the operation?

Liz Riffle-3:

Yeah, so right now it's me, my husband, my mom, because it really, any decision we make, whether I take something else on or decide to go do more conferences or speaking engagements, a lot of the childcare then comes to her, right? It's my husband, but it's also, she helps out with that. So she's definitely a decision maker and she'll be the first to tell me too, Hey, I think you're doing too much. Your boys really wanna see mom, so maybe we don't schedule anything in the month of November or something. And she's very candid about that, which is great. So she's definitely a decision maker. And then, my brother-in-law, Jeremy, who was our first full-time employee and has been with us the longest, he is definitely a decision maker as well, just because he is the hands-on guy who actually has to fix the tractor when I ask him to take water to the mountain side. So they can graze some obscure pasture and. It's actually, he has to get all of the equipment there to do that. So I wanna make sure that he's involved in that decision because is that the best utilization of his time and our equipment? Or is it dangerous? Like I know how to drive a tractor, but I don't know how to do it as well as he does. And so maybe driving a tractor with water is not actually safe on that side of the mountain. We shouldn't graze it that time of year, or maybe we don't graze it when it's wet, but we come back to it later in the fall when it's dry because then he can get a tractor out there. So, he's definitely in that holistic context that we created. We're the four decision makers, my husband, myself, my mom, and my brother-in-law, Jeremy.

Christine Martin-2:

The holistic management incorporates the seven decision testing questions. Is that what you're using? Are you good about using that or.

Liz Riffle-3:

Yes, most definitely. When we have to make big, decisions on the farm, we do, we all we all have our own gut instincts, and this is how much this costs and how much this costs, and either monetarily or from a staff time perspective. And so to be very honest in making some of those big decisions like putting in a commercial kitchen, opening up another store, we totally use those seven, prompts for decision making to make sure that no one's being biased that we're all thinking about the decision from an honest perspective and can come to a, good conclusion. I love those. I love those. Those seven points. It keeps me, honest because I'm very emotional. I am an emotional being. I think that's a woman's nature in general. I farm from an emotional perspective. My husband farms from a numbers perspective, so we get to meet in the middle because of those seven key, deciding factors. You can, run through that, list of. Of those seven items to help you make an honest decision from both perspectives, and it makes us both happy and it makes us both honest.

Christine Martin-2:

I'm also a first generation land steward, and I was in the corporate world when I was introduced to the seven decision testing questions, my first thought was, if only I had this before,'cause I would've made completely different decisions. It was such an aha moment for me about making decisions that honored your values and honored your financial goals and honored your the environmental aspect of our stewardship. So yeah it, was a pivotal time for me. And I love those questions ex resonate with what you said.

Liz Riffle-3:

Oh yes, they're, they've been so helpful over the years.

Christine Martin-2:

So do you currently have a challenge that you'll need to be addressing? Do you have a, weak link that, that you need to look into?

Liz Riffle-3:

Oh I've got all kinds. I don't know what my biggest weak link is right now, but, I guess maybe pointing out again, something that I. I had mentioned earlier, I, do love to teach, so that was my background Previously I was a nurse. I went back to school to become an educator, so I got my masters in education. And so I love doing some of these speaking engagements and being present at conferences and networking and talking with people and that's hard to do, to fly all over the country. When I have a farm to run, I've got two little boys to raise and I now have a new store that we just opened. So I am a yes person. I love to say yes to everybody and everything. I wanna do all the things. And so the timing thing is my weak link. Like I'm one person, I only have so much time and I have to prioritize things. So that's something I. I personally have to work on

Christine Martin-2:

I've had to make some decisions about what needs to be happening on the ranch so that I can the flexibility to be away from it for a few days.

Liz Riffle-3:

Yeah, it's a tough thing to do. You wanna get out there and you wanna be with and network with people and even for your own learning too you wanna attend conferences and get some new ideas, but it's hard, hard when you have the farm and the family and timing time is always my. Is my weak one.

Christine Martin-2:

The reason I have to shift what I'm doing on the ranch is I recognize that as a social being yes, I like being on the ranch and I love being with the animals and doing everything that I'm doing, but I need to have the connection with my community, I need to be sharing, learning, being out, networking. Last year it very evident to me that I need to be out with people more. So that was my goal for this year.

Liz Riffle-3:

Yeah, it's a tough balance. Honestly, and that's, something I struggle with on the regular.

Christine Martin-2:

Yeah.

Liz Riffle-3:

but in the in the light of timing and all of this stuff, I actually have to open the store in six minutes because my husband had to bring the boys to a doctor's appointment.

Christine Martin-2:

Okay.

Liz Riffle-3:

so it's me, just me.

Christine Martin-2:

I understand, that too. Thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me and sharing, you're, an inspiration and, and we'll talk soon.

Liz Riffle-3:

Yeah. Awesome. Thank you for inviting me. I really appreciate it. And I hope with the podcast, I could help somebody or enlighten somebody in some aspect of holistic management, thank you. Thank you.