Episode 30- From Aid to Agency: How Heifer, USA Builds Regenerative Communities (Interview with Donna Kilpatrick)

In this episode, Christine sits down with Donna Kilpatrick, Director of Regeneration at Heifer USA (Heifer International), to explore what regeneration looks like when we stop treating people as “recipients” — and start collaborating with communities as partners.

Donna shares how Heifer’s mission has evolved from livestock donations into a whole-systems approach to ending hunger and poverty while caring for the earth, including farmer training at Heifer Ranch’s 1,200-acre living laboratory in Perryville, Arkansas. 

Together, Christine and Donna go deep into:

• Why context matters more than “best practices”
• How Holistic Management® and decision testing change what we choose — and why
• What Heifer has seen globally (including Honduras) when holistic planned grazing replaces “either sell animals or clear more land”
• Why birds can be a meaningful proxy for ecosystem health
• The human side of regeneration: nervous system, isolation, community support, and women reclaiming agency in agriculture

If you’ve ever felt like you’re trying to regenerate land while carrying the invisible weight of everything else… this conversation will land.

Heifer USA YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@HeiferUSA

Leading the Regenerative Revolution masterclass is a 3-day live masterclass for women ranchers, farmers, and homesteaders in regenerative agriculture to recognize their essential role, reclaim their authority, and honor the feminine traits already shaping their stewardship on Feb 16-18, 2026 at 12:00 CST

For more details and to register https://thrivinglandsteward.com/leading-regen-revolution

Connect with Christine Martin:
Website: https://thrivinglandsteward.com
Email: info@thrivinglandsteward.com

Transcript

Christine Martin 0:21

So often when we think about solving hunger and poverty, we think in parts all they need is food, or all they need is money, livestock, or even aid. But regeneration really asks us for a whole system. Today we're Talking about what happens when communities aren't. Treated as recipients, but as partners that we're collaborating with and with that, I invited Donna Kilpatrick, who is Director of Regeneration at Heifer International. Donna, if you would just give a quick introduction to yourself, and for those that may not know if you could share the core mission of Heifer International.

Donna Kilpatrick 1:08

Yeah. Absolutely. So Christine, thank you so much for having me. I know we've talked about sitting down together for so long and it's finally happening. I just so appreciate you having me on. Yeah, so my name's Donna Kilpatrick. I'm the director of Regeneration at Heifer, USA, which is one of the country programs. With Heifer International and Heifer International's mission is to end hunger and poverty and care for the earth. And that is also the mission of Heifer, USA. We really focus on farmer training. So we have a 1200 acre ranch in Perryville, Arkansas that is really a living laboratory for bringing in farmers and teaching them regenerative principles, and then they can take those principles and. Use them to implement practices based on their context. So that's what we do.

Christine Martin 2:03

Beautiful. So how has. Evolved from those years of just livestock donations to more of a holistic community-based systems.

Donna Kilpatrick 2:15

Yeah. So when Heifer started, dan West, the founder in the Spanish civil War, was really looking for a solution to the hunger that he was seeing, and was noticing that lots of aid organizations were giving a quick fix, like powdered milk. And he was like, there's gotta be a better way. There's, and so the the parable or whatever, teach a man to fish. He was thinking, from that perspective, that from a farming background, from a farming community and being part of the Church of the Brethren what if we gave the community a cow that would be a more sustainable solution to their struggles with hunger than being reliant on a donation of powdered milk. So that's how the whole concept started. And we have been predominantly a livestock. Based organization, working within communities and working through the cornerstones. 12 cornerstones that really focus on allow the community to work together and build their value system, what they want as a community and how the gift of livestock or. Learning how to garden, whatever it is that they decide to do will help them thrive together. So we don't work with individuals, we work with communities.

Christine Martin 3:47

And, with the main premise of you're helping them be more resilient, right?

Donna Kilpatrick 3:53

Yeah, absolutely. Yes, without a doubt. So the 19 countries that we work with it's. I feel like in the United States there's a, there's been a loss of resiliency, but in many of the countries that we work with because of climate change, because of government structures that are, not resilient or, yeah there's just, so many more. Issues and opportunities for collapse within those communities. And so we're teaching people yes. How to be more resilient. It's beyond living income. We do have these metrics that we work towards, and a lot of times it's like a living income. It's more than that. It's about wellness. It's about quality of life. It's about all the things that make you feel resilient. And that is way more than money.

Christine Martin 4:50

Yeah. So does that change your, organization is global. You're dealing with many cultures that many, different values, and so it's gonna look different everywhere, right?

Donna Kilpatrick 5:04

Absolutely. Absolutely. And yeah, it's gonna look very different. That's why earlier when I was saying we've really focused on, in terms of our, term caring for the earth. That's always been a part of our mission, but we've been doing a deeper dive. What does that mean? Caring for the earth and it's. Sort of after lots of work, it's really funneling down to these regenerative principles and not practices because of that context. There's so many countries that work differently. There's practices that work here in the United States that aren't gonna work well say, in another country that we work with. So just really learning what that context is, what works and doesn't work, and know that things are not the same everywhere.

Christine Martin 5:51

Thank you for sharing that. Yeah. Many of my listeners are fellow land stewards that are working towards regenerative agriculture. So how does heifer and how do you, because you're the, director of regeneration approach soil health and livestock management and ecological restoration.

Donna Kilpatrick 6:08

Yeah, so I would say that I, am the director of Regeneration for Heifer, USA, so my contact is definitely here in the United States. Now, do I do work in other countries? I've done some projects in Honduras and. I'm getting ready to go to Ecuador in a week and a half to work on a bird project, which I'm really excited about. But in the United States, honestly it's, pretty straightforward. We have 1200 acres of land that for the past 30 years have been, now about 35 years 35 years ago. We started leasing out land to farmers in our community and without a lot of stipulation on how the land was treated. So at that point, heifer Ranch was teaching mostly school groups and some faith-based organizations that would come to the ranch teaching them about heifer's, work heifer's mission throughout the world. Was it focused specifically on farmer livelihoods or farmers in the United States? And. 2018, I believe we switched gears and started really thinking about farmers in the United States that this piece of land could. Better be, used by actually scaling up our farming practices and teaching farmers in the area. How to take a step towards regenerative principles and away from conventional which we felt like we're seeing a lot of degradation in basically in every aspect of our ecology and our ecosystem. Health is deteriorating because of our. Decisions in our management. So we decided to scale up livestock production. We needed more positive impact from our grazers on the land. And to really focus on. Production, which was going at that time towards Grassroots Farmers Cooperative, which we helped start in 2014. That shifted a little bit. Now we grow a few things for grassroots, but really our, primary focus is on training farmers and using this ranch to train farmers. But how we do it, I said it was simple. It's really using the soil health principles. And also we're a savory hub, so we really believe in holistic decision making, using a holistic framework to ensure that all of our management decisions are pointing us to our context and to our North Star. We just, for the first time ever last week we, trained the entire staff in holistic management.

Christine Martin 8:52

Fabulous.

Donna Kilpatrick 8:53

So and yes, and I'm so glad I mentioned that earlier in a different conversation, that we have a new senior country director and I'm so pleased that she understands and is on board with really learning. This framework and how we use it to ensure that every department at the ranch, if it's the maintenance shop or livestock team or accounting folks, that we've developed our context, our North Star together, and that we're all making decisions that are heading us to that and the future that we want to create together. And it's great. I'm, really excited about it.

Christine Martin 9:37

So Donna heifer is, international, Are other countries implementing the holistic management framework?

Donna Kilpatrick 9:46

Yeah, it's awesome. Yeah. So I've been working with Heifer, Honduras and they are, and they have implemented this beautiful holistic, plain grazing program that I've been. Privileged enough to go and visit a couple times and help with, I would say help very loosely. They're doing an amazing job and I've been privileged enough to go and experience it with them. Farmers that were having to clear cut more land slash and burn methods. And being able to bring in solar, just like Gallagher fence chargers and set up polywire and start breaking these huge paddocks down into small sections, bunching up animals. And that what they've been able to do is amazing. And not having to sell animals during the dry season. They have enough forge, they're able to stockpile. The farmers talk about seeing wildlife come back that they haven't seen in years. So a radical shift with implementing holistic plan grazing in Honduras.

Christine Martin 10:56

So you mentioned the forest and the slash and burn. So you insinuating that they don't have to go clear more land because now they're getting more productivity Land that's already cleared. That's So

Donna Kilpatrick 11:10

yes, it is.

Christine Martin 11:10

the forest and then they have that whole ecosystem functioning.

Donna Kilpatrick 11:13

Absolutely. And not having to sell animals. They would get in a, pickle with not, any forage during the dry season. And what can we do? We can either cut more trees down and make more pasture, or we can sell our animals. So two decisions that weren't ideal but in any and, they've been, able to, stop both.

Christine Martin 11:38

I know you've been working with Honduras. Is Ecuador also gonna start using holistic management because you said you were visiting them.

Donna Kilpatrick 11:45

Yeah. Yeah, I am. So we heifer, USA about a year and a half ago started working with Audubon. So we're part of the Audubon Conservation Ranching program. And this is a program that I really love. And I'm so excited that we were able to bring, pull together some grant money to allow. Audubon to work in Arkansas now. So I believe they're working with two or three farms in Arkansas. We're one of 'em that we've had our baseline bird counts done and all of that. And we're gonna expand and offer that to more farmers in Arkansas. But yeah, we think that birds like I, I feel very passionate about this. Like we've seen the decline of things like the Bob White quail and meadow larks. And most of that is due to conventional agriculture and, removing the habitat that these birds need. So in Central America with coffee growers, cacao growers, I don't know all the ins and outs of the study yet, but it's with the American Bird Conservancy, I believe. A project that is looking at implementing, is it aus the recording devices.

Christine Martin 13:00

Oh yeah. Yeah.

Donna Kilpatrick 13:01

And so I'm taking a bunch of those with me and my, new boss, who's this, our new country director, she's also going, she's taking a suitcase full of 'em. So we're gonna be putting these up in different communities of cow growers and coffee growers in Ecuador. And I guess implementing a study that's gonna look at. What types of management on this land increase bird populations and can birds be seen as a proxy for ecosystem health?

Christine Martin 13:34

Of

Donna Kilpatrick 13:34

I would say here, from my experience looking at six years ago compared to where we are today, birds are definitely a proxy for ecosystem health.

Christine Martin 13:44

I You.

Donna Kilpatrick 13:46

yeah,

Christine Martin 13:46

such an increase in birds on my

Donna Kilpatrick 13:48

it's insane. It's insane. Yeah. Yeah.

Christine Martin 13:52

don't know all the birds, but I that app that you can record them and it's Yes. Yeah. Oh my gosh, that's fabulous app.

Donna Kilpatrick 14:00

It is. Yes. So at the ranch, like we have so many beautiful birds that come through and we've seen. I saw Bald Eagle yesterday, six years ago. I never saw Bald Eagle. We see 'em all the time, like people on our WhatsApp farm group ranch group, picture of a bald eagle, whatever, and it happens all the time. But do you know an indigo bunting? Do you know what those look like? They're blue big. Okay.

Christine Martin 14:27

Yes. Yeah, I've seen a photo. I haven't seen one in person.

Donna Kilpatrick 14:31

So we've had indigo buntings. We had a few when I started here. Now we're covered up in 'em, but there's also a painted bunting and it looks like someone let some kind of tropical bird out into the wild. This thing is multicolor. Beautiful, stunning. So couple years ago, just two years ago, I was dry and I'm like the day we get a painted bunting, although we've arrived. With our ecosystem help. So I was driving in my little side by side down the road. I saw a painted bunting and I almost went in the ditch. So I, and I found out where it was flying back and forth between the maintenance shop and some pine trees. So I started watching it. Now they're so common that it's like paint a bunny.

Christine Martin 15:19

Oh, that's amazing.

Donna Kilpatrick 15:21

Yeah.

Christine Martin 15:22

that hasn't stopped you from improving the ecosystem.

Donna Kilpatrick 15:27

No. Never. Never in a billion years. I think it's really interesting, like we'll keep working on the ecosystem health as we've increased our, sole organic matter so much in six years. It's interesting. People say it takes, I remember people you used to hear, oh, it takes so long. To regenerate land. It does not, change your management and you will see nature respond.

Christine Martin 15:57

Can you share the increase in organic matter for the listeners?

Donna Kilpatrick 16:01

Yeah. So yeah. We've had pastures that were at 0.5 Have gone up to 4.23.

Christine Martin 16:10

That's amazing.

Donna Kilpatrick 16:12

We've, seen four and five point increases in six years.

Christine Martin 16:16

amazing. Well done. You

Donna Kilpatrick 16:19

No, well done staff. Well done. Increase of animal impact, positive impact, all of those things.

Christine Martin 16:28

Sure, So how do we balance as a small holder? Because when we talk internationally, it's not thousands of acres like we're used to here in the states. It's the small acreage. How do we balance that environmental sustainability with the financial viability of all of this?

Donna Kilpatrick 16:49

It is tough. It really is tough. Like how many farmers in the United States are making a living? Not

Christine Martin 16:58

not of

Donna Kilpatrick 16:59

many.

Christine Martin 17:00

And

Donna Kilpatrick 17:00

Not many.

Christine Martin 17:01

Is higher than

Donna Kilpatrick 17:03

Yep.

Christine Martin 17:04

with PTSD? No,

Donna Kilpatrick 17:06

Yes, exactly. Yep. Yeah, it's a tough road. Hoe, and I don't know. I feel like, in some ways is it even ethical to try to get people to, to become farmers? Maybe not. Like we need people to grow food.

Christine Martin 17:26

We.

Donna Kilpatrick 17:28

We also need to work with farmers who are growing conventionally. To share and hopefully share to the point that, they want to take a step towards regeneration. I think that it's an incredible balancing act of profitability quality of life, all of those things. Not only is farming not profitable, but it is a hard way to make a living. Some enterprises are harder than others and the ones that don't take the high barriers to entry like poultry, that is a hard way to make a living. Yes, it can be profitable. So there's all of this balancing act and when we think about, I mentioned earlier that we've, as an organization, we really used to focus on living income. And we're seeing that, and I would say this is a holistic view. Like our impact as an organization. Of course, people need to make a living for sure, but there's more than that. There's more than that, and it has to do with quality of life, has to do with wellness. It has to do with physical health, which is part of wellness, but not all of it. It has to do with your relationships, with your neighbors, with your family. All of those things are critically important. And when we think about regeneration at Heifer, USA and also within Heifer International we're not, just talking about ecosystem health. We're talking about. Ecosystem economics and the health of the community. So it's a social component too, and it needs to be, for us, we're starting to really view it as it needs to be equally as important as the financial aspect of it. Yeah.

Christine Martin 19:29

sure. Yeah. Because you could be making a lot of money and still be, and work 80 hours a week and be exhausted and be stressed

Donna Kilpatrick 19:39

Miserable. Yeah.

Christine Martin 19:40

Miserable and your relationships are all

Donna Kilpatrick 19:44

Yep.

Christine Martin 19:44

So yeah it, is a balance. And, that's where the holistic management framework and the decision making aspect is so critical,

Donna Kilpatrick 19:55

So critical. Yep.

Christine Martin 19:56

decision testing questions really help you consider all of these other factors. It's not all about money,

Donna Kilpatrick 20:03

Absolutely.

Christine Martin 20:03

all about the environment. It there're all these variables that we need to balance

Donna Kilpatrick 20:08

Yep.

Christine Martin 20:09

yeah. The decision testing questions was my biggest aha when I, learned the framework and my first thought was, dang it, if I had only known this before, I would've made so many better decisions in my past.

Donna Kilpatrick 20:26

Yeah, absolutely. And you go through holistic management and you start using those questions, it can be clunky. Like I remember I used.

Christine Martin 20:34

very

Donna Kilpatrick 20:35

Yeah. I used to have 'em like taped in my side by side and taped in the truck and taped on the wall. They're not on the wall anymore because eventually you, you just, you start going through this, you know the questions very quickly. But yes they, definitely have shifted the way we make decisions for sure, but also the outcome of those decisions.

Christine Martin 20:56

Of course.

Donna Kilpatrick 20:58

Of course. And I'll, give you a quick, so this, is even before we had staff members besides a couple of us that were trained in holistic management. I was meeting with Christine, who's the livestock manager, and Tim Nackey who is our, facilities and maintenance manager, both incredible people and very good at what they do. And we're so fortunate to have them. And we were meeting and we were talking about how we water our animals, how we get water to our animals, and should we consider putting in wells or should we pump from the river or all these things. And. So we started going through the decision filtering questions and not like overtly because they hadn't been trained in holistic management, but just thinking through and what we came up with, which was so radically different than I thought we would, and I was really happy. It was it ended up being a social thing and the social component was that. As a nonprofit, we don't pay a lot of taxes to the town of Perryville. We actually water our animals with city water. And some people would be like, oh my God, what are you thinking? It's not that expensive to be honest with you. But we started thinking about that and we decided that we don't really know how much of the money helped support the town. It is one major contribution that we make to the town of Perryville, and so we decided to just not do anything to keep doing what we're doing. And that was definitely through the framework,

Christine Martin 22:47

Beautiful. So one of the things that I really like about the decision testing questions is that first question, are we addressing the root cause

Donna Kilpatrick 22:56

the root cause. Yeah.

Christine Martin 23:01

I and, as soon as it was mentioned. I recognized that I had gone through the same process when I first started to feel sick, and I do ranching, and I do all this because I healed myself of all these symptoms by addressing the root cause, which was the quality, the nutrition of the food that I was eating.

Donna Kilpatrick 23:22

Yep.

Christine Martin 23:23

And when I went to the first doctor and he's oh, here's a prescription to help you. I said no, I want to fix this. So he was treating a symptom and I eventually determined that the root cause was the quality of the food that I was eating from the processed food, Yes, I would love to craft macaroni and cheese.

Donna Kilpatrick 23:45

Oh, that's so funny.

Christine Martin 23:47

I, haven't eaten it in oh, decades now, but that root cause is so critical in our decision making so that we're spending money at the right place. So whenever we're getting a return on our labor, on our time, yeah, huge.

Donna Kilpatrick 24:04

Yeah that's, interesting. When we taught holistic management last week to the team and we were going through the filtering questions. We were talking about root cause. We were having folks throw out examples of. Sometimes you treat the symptoms not the root cause. And we did talk about western medicine,

Christine Martin 24:27

Yeah.

Donna Kilpatrick 24:27

that's what we do. We go and we have a 15 minute appointment with a doctor and we treat the symptoms. And we're not taking a holistic approach like you would in Chinese medicine or other forms of medicine and wellness.

Christine Martin 24:42

Wellness. So speaking of wellness before we started the recording, you and I both shared that we've, worked on ourselves for all sorts of different reasons

Donna Kilpatrick 24:57

Yep.

Christine Martin 25:00

From, my own experience as I work with more and more land stewards in workshops or coaching one-on-one, the human is the weakest link in the, operation General. Our, mindset, our stress, our knowledge is always impacting our decisions. I had to recognize this the hard way when the result of my decisions caused cash flow issue I had to recognize it the hard way I came from a very controlled environment in my corporate career, and I brought that same mindset to working with nature, and we just can't control nature. We can't control livestock, and I was getting physically angry, upset when those cattle left the paddock that I spent so much time making

Donna Kilpatrick 26:05

Yeah. Yeah.

Christine Martin 26:06

And, recognizing, having that awareness, this isn't right. So how can we, how does Heifer help support the human in, the operation and how, what can we do to help them?

Donna Kilpatrick 26:22

Oh gosh. That is, a, that's a big question. And I, think I wanna, I don't know, I think I wanna answer it by talking about how we. How we support our employees first because I think that then trickles into how we work with communities. But the context of communities is so different. I would say it's a very human approach. It's a very, we're committed to working with women and youth. Most of the farmers in the world are women throughout the world. And yet they have very little access to own land or be a decision maker, yet they are the labor force. So we take a human approach, a wellness approach with our work within communities. We do a cornerstones training that really. Really gets to things like gender inequity and gender relationships and spirituality and whatever that looks like for folks and the importance of that. But here at the ranch, I think that yes, we are a nonprofit and that makes us different than a traditional farm, obviously. But we also are a living, breathing ranch with. Hundreds and hundreds of animals and livestock and, farmers that are talented and gifted and are here working because they love it and they love our mission, but they also love farming. We have mostly women working on the livestock team. And how many? Two, three. Three of our four, four of our livestock team have small children, so we. We really recognize that it is really important for those parents to, to have time with their kids.

Christine Martin 28:19

Of

Donna Kilpatrick 28:19

And so we've added staff, we've added. A lot of flexibility in the work schedule for people to be able to do what they love here at the ranch, but also have quality of life, at home. So yeah, I think that's really important and I think it makes us, and as I said before, yes, we're a nonprofit, we're different, but I think that just recognizing that, I think it's, yes, it's work life balance, but it's more than that. It's really, to me it's about wellness and. Really focusing on what individuals need because that we have staff that don't have kids. They have needs too. So what can we do to enable them to express their individual genius, whatever that is.

Christine Martin 29:09

That's

Donna Kilpatrick 29:09

Yeah.

Christine Martin 29:12

We talked before we started the recording that. I have experienced, and maybe you have experienced the same, that at workshops that I facilitate, workshops that I host, land stewards that I'm coaching are mostly women. They understand the need for regeneration because they're concerned about climate, they're concerned about food quality. They're concerned about what they're gonna leave their children and grandchildren. And so they understand this. But agriculture has always tended to be a more male dominated industry, So it's very masculine and it not that we don't need that masculine, not that we don't need the logic, we need the data, we need the research. We need to understand the how. But women bring in a whole different aspect to for the land, to caring for the community, caring for the relationships.

Donna Kilpatrick 30:18

Yeah.

Christine Martin 30:19

And I'm, I that of this culture, at least here in the US and I'm, sure in other countries it's even more predominant. Women tend to defer. To that masculine aspect. When I host a workshop, the women are not the ones asking the questions. It's the guys. Women tend To wait until a break or after the workshop to come and approach me one-on-one to ask,

Donna Kilpatrick 30:53

Yeah.

Christine Martin 30:54

I recently had a workshop where I had a couple that they've just moved to the area, completely different environment. And she was curious. She wanted to understand the why, but every time she raised her hand, she goes, I know this is a stupid question. And it, made me angry

Donna Kilpatrick 31:13

yeah.

Christine Martin 31:14

she has every right to ask her questions. She does not need to de gray to, I don't even know the word.

Donna Kilpatrick 31:24

Disempower. Yeah.

Christine Martin 31:26

She has every right authority to, to, Look at things this way. It might be different than the rest. So how do we help shift that women are given more agency in these agricultural systems? Because we do need the feminine regenerative agriculture. And the six principles have done a fabulous job of making us understand that nature is important, but we need it to bring in those feminine traits, the nurturing, the relationship, the collaboration, the instinct. We're led by instinct.

Donna Kilpatrick 32:04

Mm-hmm.

Christine Martin 32:05

aren't, How? How do we, how held that? Because those things are important to regeneration.

Donna Kilpatrick 32:11

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I don't know. I, think that In, regenerative agriculture, the feedback loop is so critical. And the observation, I feel like women farmers, women land stewards are so incredibly attuned with that rhythm of nature. And I think it's a biological, I think it's a biological function of being female. So I think that there's a natural I've always heard that women make better milkers like in a dairy farm. I can, I used to, that's where I started my career in agriculture was on in dairy. I can definitely see that, like just being more in tune with, like I said, the natural rhythm of nature. Yeah. All that.

Christine Martin 33:07

The, monthly cycles

Donna Kilpatrick 33:09

Yes. Yeah.

Christine Martin 33:10

moon and all of that

Donna Kilpatrick 33:11

All of that stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I. I guess the question is how do you, get people out of their comfort zone to, to ask the question to be, I don't know if I like the word empowered, but to feel comfortable enough in themselves. To be willing to take a risk, I don't know. I'm I'm asking this from, just coming off of this experience in Petaluma, California where I went through this life-changing experience called the Hoffman Process and all of this every question that you just ask, we did a deep dive on in nine days in the most. Intensive personal work that I've ever done, and really looking at things like our patterns to say things to ourselves that you wouldn't say that to a friend.

Christine Martin 34:21

But no, I know we're so hard on ourselves.

Donna Kilpatrick 34:23

are so incredibly hard on ourselves one of our teachers at Hoffman he drew like a ski slope and he was talking about our neuro pathways. And how when we say things to ourselves like, I'm not enough, or, oh, I can never get that job, or I can't drive that tractor, my husband needs to do it. When we say these things over and over and over and over, we're just like digging into that ski rut, that it gets deeper and you can't get out of it. And just the process of literally the process at Hoffman is to become aware of those patterns. Patterns that we pick up as children that we're doing it unconsciously. We can't control this. It's just how we think. And they're they're negative. These patterns are negative, and they're usually about ourselves or about what we think about other people or whatever. And just really drawing awareness to it, to that, that oh, I have this pattern. Like this is a pattern that I've picked up. And then learning how to express it so you know. Moving your body and getting the expressing this, thing that you wanna change, forgiveness, compassion, and then moving to new ways of being. So starting the ski slope and starting making those new neuro pathways of of course I can drive a tractor. Why? Why is it that someone has to have a penis to drive a tractor? Like, why would we do that? Yeah, and I, of course I'm great. I'm enough. So just building those new thought patterns. Anyway, it was a life-changing experience and I would highly recommend it to anyone it is called the Hoffman Process, and their logo is when you're serious about change.

Christine Martin 36:22

Beautiful. there was a lot of somatic work

Donna Kilpatrick 36:25

Yeah. Oh, so much thematic work. Yeah.

Christine Martin 36:28

Yeah. Yeah. And for those that don't know, somatic is the, just the movement of your body, You As simple as hugging yourself, right? That would be a somatic if

Donna Kilpatrick 36:42

Yep.

Christine Martin 36:43

of many of us have trauma a small t trauma from childhood that we wish our parents had done something right. We go back and, as. 50, 60, 70-year-old selves, we go back to the 10-year-old to say, you are okay. You're wonderful, you're brilliant. Whatever it is that we needed to hear at that time.

Donna Kilpatrick 37:03

Yeah, and I, five years ago. Thinking about doing some of this work, I would've been like that is way too woo for me. I'm not doing that.

Christine Martin 37:13

yeah.

Donna Kilpatrick 37:14

it's life changing. It's life changing, and I feel happier and more grounded sure of myself, content that I think I have ever in my life.

Christine Martin 37:28

that you look at,

Donna Kilpatrick 37:30

Thank you.

Christine Martin 37:30

haven't seen you in a while, and you look at, and you've lost weight, which is fabulous.

Donna Kilpatrick 37:35

you. Yes, I have. And it is we were talking about this earlier, so many times in my life, so many times. I can remember when I turned 40, I was like, this year is gonna be the year that I'm gonna get in shape. Many years later, never. It never happened. And I'll set myself up for failure every single time I do that. And it's just a pattern. It's a pattern.

Christine Martin 38:01

it

Donna Kilpatrick 38:01

So this year when I was going through a tough time just in so many aspects of my life and wondering if I. I was in the right field of work. Even though this is the joy of my life, I still was just doubting everything. I became anxious and I've never dealt with anxiety in my life. And, when people would talk about anxiety, I'd be like, how bad could it be? Let me tell you how bad it can be. It can destroy you. Like I had no earthly idea. I felt like I was coming unglued. And I started one day. I was like, I don't know what to do. I'm gonna go for a walk. So I walked for about three miles. I came home and I was like, okay. I actually feel like I can breathe. I feel better. I don't feel like my insides are trembling. So I started doing it every day and it became like a sort of a lifeline for this anxiety that I was dealing with. And the positive benefit was I lost a lot of weight. So yeah, I feel great.

Christine Martin 39:02

Isn't it wonderful when that happens?

Donna Kilpatrick 39:05

Yeah, it is.

Christine Martin 39:06

So what I'm hearing and what I think I'm trying to share is the masculine has done a fabulous job of, agriculture the way, that we're progressing. But as, how do I wanna say this? aspects of being human. Has never been something that has been addressed. And there is no safe container. There is no safe place to say f you this. I am I'm frustrated. I I, like you, I love what I'm doing, but there's days it's I want out of here.

Donna Kilpatrick 39:52

Totally. Yeah.

Christine Martin 39:54

So there. Whether we're just becoming more attuned to this, I find that there's really no space for us to be able to come and share. I'm struggling today. I'm stressed today as an example. I experienced some cash flow issues and I learned my pattern is I disassociate. I disassociate, I'd much rather go watch stream Outlander series and Netflix

Donna Kilpatrick 40:27

Yep.

Christine Martin 40:28

than address the whatever's causing the stress. It's like I can't handle it, it's too

Donna Kilpatrick 40:33

Yep. Yeah.

Christine Martin 40:35

And as a solopreneur here, doesn't go well for the business if I'm not addressing it

Donna Kilpatrick 40:43

Yes.

Christine Martin 40:44

But, there was no place for me to say. These are my emotions, these are my feelings. This is what I'm doing. I, and I also recognize, and I've been there and I've helped others, that when you're in that position, your self-awareness goes tunnel vision, doesn't

Donna Kilpatrick 41:05

Yeah, it sure does. Absolutely. Yeah.

Christine Martin 41:08

worried about paying a bill, you're so focused on how you're gonna pay that bill, you miss all these opportunities in your blind spot that has just gotten wider.

Donna Kilpatrick 41:17

Yeah, absolutely.

Christine Martin 41:18

So that support is so instrumental which coincidentally, I am hosting a three day masterclass next week, Monday through Wednesday called Leading the Regenerative Revolution. It's for women in Regen ag who feel seen, don't feel heard, and how we can walk into that authority that we have by nature To recognize that and just to have a container to come in. I see you. I hear you. Been there, done that. I'm with you on this walk.

Donna Kilpatrick 41:55

I wish I was going to that. That sounds amazing.

Christine Martin 41:58

Yeah, you're gonna be in Ecuador, but it's it's, one hour a day at noon central standard time, and there is replays,

Donna Kilpatrick 42:07

Wait, you said it's next week?

Christine Martin 42:09

next week.

Donna Kilpatrick 42:10

I go the following week. I wanna, I'll, so I'll talk to you. yeah

Christine Martin 42:14

Yeah. So

Donna Kilpatrick 42:14

Cool.

Christine Martin 42:15

I'll share the link on the show notes. This should be out today

Donna Kilpatrick 42:20

Okay.

Christine Martin 42:24

We didn't go off topic because this podcast is about wherever the conversation leads us.

Donna Kilpatrick 42:29

No, I think what you were bringing up about being isolated, I think it's so ironic that we're. With technology, the most connected we've ever been to other people. And yet I feel like there is this chasm of loneliness that is so deep through so many people, and I know I have experienced that this year. Just recently stopped all social media for a while. I think I've been off all social media for about two and a half months. It's been so good. It's been so good.

Christine Martin 43:06

time.

Donna Kilpatrick 43:08

I cut out all the noise. Really. It's just been now, I do miss, I miss looking at, I, I love to take photographs, so I miss posting and I miss looking at people's photographs, but I don't miss the political conversations that I don't miss. I don't know, drama or whatever. Maybe it's not drama. Maybe it's just superficialness.

Christine Martin 43:36

Sure.

Donna Kilpatrick 43:38

Yeah.

Christine Martin 43:38

Because there is a lot of that on social

Donna Kilpatrick 43:40

So much. Yeah.

Christine Martin 43:41

Yeah

Donna Kilpatrick 43:42

But anyway, it's been really good for me. But now I have all these Hoffman friends that are like, when you go through an experience like we went through in California, you develop some deep friendships very quickly.

Christine Martin 43:55

Of

Donna Kilpatrick 43:56

So now I'm like, oh, maybe I should get back on Instagram. So we'll see. We'll see. But I think what you were talking about was just like this isolation and. Dealing with issues that are complex and where you really need to reach out to someone in the farming community, especially in the regen community. If, a farmer is in a conventional system is shifting to regen, he or she might find himself in the most lonely place there is because now they've lost their community. I think that we really need to, look at ways to. Bring people together on a real level, like

Christine Martin 44:41

because the

Donna Kilpatrick 44:42

think

Christine Martin 44:42

is so hard.

Donna Kilpatrick 44:44

the transition is so hard. We're,

Christine Martin 44:47

curve. The learning curve the, risk that we're having to tolerate the expenses. Most conventional farmers have a huge debt load because of equipment. You know that debt still needs to be paid off.

Donna Kilpatrick 45:06

Absolutely. Yeah, it can be very lonely and yeah, I don't know what the solution is, but I think that there has to be a way to build real community not just like a pat on the back. Are you doing okay? Okay, great. Good to see you. Okay, what's really up? Like how can we help you as a community? How can we support you, surround you, whatever. Yeah. I think that's missing and I think.

Christine Martin 45:32

missing, but it's, hard because egos get in the way.

Donna Kilpatrick 45:36

Oh my God, yes.

Christine Martin 45:38

And so, that's where the, trust factor, you just shared the Hoffman group you bonded, right? There's a trust factor because there was a lot of intense sharing and

Donna Kilpatrick 45:51

Vulnerability.

Christine Martin 45:52

Yeah.

Donna Kilpatrick 45:53

Oh yeah. In case anyone wants to do Hoffman, there were so many things that happened that were just like life changing, but our introduction to each other, and this is like 39 people that you don't know and you're only using your first name, no last names, and you're not using what you do for a living. Which is, I've never been in a situation like that. I, think of myself as a farmer, a land steward, and not to talk about that. I'm just me. But yeah, just our, opening was I'll never forget it. The pain in my heart that I feel is, and then you just talk.

Christine Martin 46:34

Oh gosh. What a lovely opening.

Donna Kilpatrick 46:39

It was intense and it was beautiful.

Christine Martin 46:43

That's gorgeous. Fabulous.

Donna Kilpatrick 46:47

Yeah.

Christine Martin 46:50

So bringing it back to Heifer As, you work with these other cultures I, know you work with the community and I know you have to work with the culture, but how do you support the women? Especially when they're not able to make the decisions, but they're doing all the labor. They're seeing the result of the work. They're recognizing maybe this isn't working.

Donna Kilpatrick 47:16

Right.

Christine Martin 47:18

How, are those dynamics being addressed or not?

Donna Kilpatrick 47:22

No, they are being addressed. And we use a, training called the 12 Cornerstones, and they're our big cornerstones that we believe in, Hein. I used to have a list right here and I don't have anymore, but I mentioned spirituality caring and sharing. How do we care? How do we share? And take care of each other in a community. This intensive training. So Heifer doesn't go into a community and be like, oh, you want a cow? Here's a cow. Sometimes it could take years for a community to go through the training, but one of the aspects of the training is really getting to the root of gender equity and decision making. And in some cultures that have just this incredibly. I don't know, male centric I don't know, culture where men make all the decisions. Women are the workers. They have no voice. We actually see in those cultures radical shifts. And like in Nepal, women talking about, I signed a check from the bank. Or Yeah countries like Nepal, India, just huge radical changes in family structure, dynamic women's role, not just workers, but landowners decision makers. All of those things. So yeah, it's powerful. It's very, powerful.

Christine Martin 48:55

We take so much stuff for granted here in the States.

Donna Kilpatrick 48:59

Yeah.

Christine Martin 49:01

So with that said. What could ranchers and farmers here, in the US learn from the small holding farmers globally? What would be one or two things that US farmers and ranchers could really incorporate into there?

Donna Kilpatrick 49:25

I think I would say the. That's gonna sound corny. One thing that I was gonna say might sound corny, but the importance of relationships within the community relationships with your neighbor, building those webs of support. We definitely see that in, in the countries that we work with. Just thinking about the work in Honduras, like how. Closely, the heifer technicians, the technical assistance, the relationships that they build with the farmers that they're working with. Because in Honduras the cattle culture is extremely male dominated, but by bringing in things like monitoring and holistic. Planning and holistic management families are getting more involved and that's really encouraging. Just sitting down for a meal when you go to a house, here, when we go here at work, when we arrive to start a job or something, it's just good to see you. Let's get to work in Honduras. When we go visit a family and we're going to work with a farm a, farmer. We probably spend two hours drinking coffee and sitting on the porch and watching the birds and talking and looking at the new grandchild and all of those things before work is ever even mentioned. So there is just a different human dynamic and a different relationship. And I think we need to, I think that would be good for us to take note of and to pick up some of those habits. Then what was the other thing that I was gonna say?

Christine Martin 51:14

Let me share something that just happened to me while you

Donna Kilpatrick 51:17

Yeah.

Christine Martin 51:18

second one.

Donna Kilpatrick 51:18

Yes.

Christine Martin 51:18

So we had Winter Storm Fern hit us a couple weeks back in preparing for the winter storm I. Because my brain was somewhere else. I, drove through a pasture that I knew was waterlogged because there had been a leak in my water system out to the pastures. I had fixed it that previous weekend. I don't know why I thought I could drive through. Anyway, I got the mules stuck. So then I think I can bring in my truck, my four by four truck and be in this one area and I can pull it out. Promptly got the truck

Donna Kilpatrick 52:01

Oh no.

Christine Martin 52:04

So because I was and raised in third world countries, I, even though I've only been here six years, I have built some relationships so that I could call. I called several people saying, but it was a Friday, so some of them were at work. I said, can you come and pull out my vehicles?

Donna Kilpatrick 52:28

Yeah. Yeah.

Christine Martin 52:29

so I, my neighbor came and, pulled me out, and then we had the storm came in Friday night, freezing rain, and I had put the cattle into an area where they were gonna be protected from, the wind and stuff. But what I had forgotten to account for was freezing rain on Polywire.

Donna Kilpatrick 52:50

Oh yeah.

Christine Martin 52:52

We'll dip the wire. So Saturday morning

Donna Kilpatrick 52:55

Oh God.

Christine Martin 52:56

Went out to go check them, and the cattle were gone. gone. They were not. They were not in the pasture. They, weren't in the paddock, but they weren't even in the pasture. So I started panicking and I decided to go get my truck to try to drive through the property. Again, because of the stress of not having found the animals where they're supposed. I got the truck stuck again. Same spot.

Donna Kilpatrick 53:27

oh gosh. Okay.

Christine Martin 53:29

I called the neighbor. He's Christine. I'm like I know.

Donna Kilpatrick 53:34

Oh God. Yeah.

Christine Martin 53:36

he came later that day and, fixed it. In the meantime, I'm panicking about these animals. Where are they? Are they on the road? And I called another neighbor. I said, can you come with your truck so that we can drive the roads to see if we can find these cattle? So he came, we drove west, went to the dead end, didn't find anything, and then came back and drove past the ranch. I happened to look up the driveway and the cattle were in my front pasture. They had gone to my neighbors and my neighbor had herded them back to property. That for me was like. Is community. This is why

Donna Kilpatrick 54:23

right.

Christine Martin 54:24

cannot do this alone. I need other People.

Donna Kilpatrick 54:28

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Oh gosh, yes, we do. We need other people for sure. I was trying to think of what, oh I probably around technology, like I feel like, in our culture we buy our way out of everything or we just discard and replace, or, I'm not saying that we don't value our livestock, but. Sometimes I feel like it's just oh, it's farming. It happens. We're gonna lose livestock. If a Nepalese family loses a goat, that's huge. It's not just, oh we'll, get another one. So just the, I don't know, intentionality on using what you have, using the resources that you have. Being content with them. Being content with them, and then the value of life, just like livestock and relationships.

Christine Martin 55:32

Yeah and, I think that has, having been born and raised in, in Latin America, third world country, and having the political instability and economic instability there's a lot more resilience. There's a lot more, not self-sufficiency, but recognizing that we can't do this alone. That we need to be in community, but we also need to make do with what we've got. And here in the US in the, oh gosh. I came here in 1983 for the first time. And so in all of those years I recognize tend to have a very disposable income. We dis,

Donna Kilpatrick 56:12

Sure.

Christine Martin 56:12

very consumeristic and we

Donna Kilpatrick 56:14

Yeah.

Christine Martin 56:15

you. Many people have storage units where they've been paying for a storage unit for.

Donna Kilpatrick 56:22

I know

Christine Martin 56:22

20 years with the stuff that

Donna Kilpatrick 56:25

with the stuff. Yeah.

Christine Martin 56:27

and yet.

Donna Kilpatrick 56:31

Yep. Yep.

Christine Martin 56:32

So Donna I've asked you a lot of questions. Anything that you wanted to bring up that we didn't address, didn't discuss that you wanted to share with the listeners?

Donna Kilpatrick 56:42

I guess one thing that I would wanna share is that. Heifer, USA At Heifer Ranch, we're really shifting our focus on training. So in the near future, you're gonna see a lot more offerings for courses at the ranch. Convening opportunities for things like regenerative festivals or film nights at the ranch, that kind of thing. We do have lodging. COVID happened, we got quiet for a long time and now. We're really realizing that we have such an opportunity and the resources in terms of having this ranch as a learning facility to host trainings and get people here. So in addition to holistic management that we teach through the Savory Institute there'll be other, there lots of livestock courses coming up, so would encourage people to come. The other thing is our YouTube channel. Really would love people to take a look at it. We have, oh my gosh, so much content on our YouTube channel, which is Heifer, USA courses on chickens and cattle and land management and all kinds of things. So check that out.

Christine Martin 57:51

I'll

Donna Kilpatrick 57:51

Awesome.

Christine Martin 57:51

in that, in the show notes. thank you so much. Always a privilege to sit and talk to you.

Donna Kilpatrick 57:59

Same goes.

Christine Martin 58:00

we could go on forever, but for, maybe we'll do a second recording.

Donna Kilpatrick 58:04

I'd love to, and I, keep saying I have to come visit you in Texas. I'm gonna make that happen.

Christine Martin 58:09

Yeah, and I need to come visit you.

Donna Kilpatrick 58:11

Please, anytime the door's always open.

Christine Martin 58:14

All right.