Episode 31 - Rachel Ward on Learning Regenerative Agriculture in Real Time—From Fires to Grazing Decisions

In this episode, I sit down with Rachel Ward—actress, screenwriter, and director of Rachel’s Farm, a documentary that follows her transition from conventional to regenerative agriculture.

What unfolds in this conversation is not a polished story—but a real-time journey of learning, questioning, and stepping into land stewardship without a clear roadmap.

Rachel shares how a series of events—from devastating bushfires to becoming a grandmother—woke her up to the urgency of doing things differently. From there, she found herself navigating cattle, grazing, and land management decisions as they came—learning by doing, and often figuring things out in the moment.

We talk about what it actually looks like to:

•  Learn regenerative agriculture and Holistic Management International principles as you go 
•  Make grazing decisions when cattle don’t want to move (and what that reveals) 
•  Work with grass, seasons, and animal behavior instead of trying to control outcomes 
•  Navigate the shift from conventional thinking to relationship-based stewardship 
•  Build community in a space that can feel isolating 
•  And rethink how we connect regenerative producers directly to consumers 

We also get into practical tools and perspectives around animal health and nutrition, including insights from:

• Dr. Will Winter → https://www.willwinter.com/
• Steve Campbell → https://www.tailormadecattle.com/
• Redmond Agriculture → https://redmondagriculture.com/

And if you haven’t watched her documentary yet, you can find it here:

• Rachel’s Farm → https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x597VmhNZdE
  
  

This is an honest, grounded conversation between two women actively stewarding land—making decisions in complexity, learning through experience, and staying in relationship with the land, livestock, and the process.

⭐ What You’ll Hear:

•  Rachel’s climate wake-up moment and transition into regenerative agriculture 
•  How Holistic Management shaped her thinking 
•  Real-world grazing challenges and decision-making 
•  The importance of community in regenerative systems 
•  Direct-to-consumer marketing and rebuilding food systems 
•  Practical approaches to supporting livestock health naturally 

This conversation is a reminder:

You don’t need to have it all figured out to be a good steward.
 You just need to stay in relationship—with the land, the animals, and the process.

📢 If this episode gave you something to think about, share it with a fellow rancher, farmer, homesteader or land steward who could use this insight! Take a screenshot, post it to your IG stories, and tag me @ThrivingLandSteward so I can reshare.

🎧 Subscribe & Review: Love the podcast? Leave a quick review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify—it helps me bring you more content to support your land stewardship journey!

🌿 Grab my free guide: 5 Essential Actions for Thriving Land Stewardship
📚 Explore Self-Study Courses: Learn at your own pace!

• Reading Your Land for Profit, Resilience, and Regeneration
• Homestead, Farm, and Ranch Planning

📧 Connect with Christine on Instagram&

Transcript

Christine Martin 0:00

Welcome to the regenerative agriculture, thriving as a modern rancher, the podcast for ranchers and land stewards looking to build healthy land, profitable businesses, and a fulfilling life. Join us as we explore regenerative practices and holistic management to help you thrive in today's ranching world. Rachel, thank you so much for joining me. I am so pleased. I know we had a little bit of time zone differences, but I'm so glad you're here with me at this record, this podcast. I will admit I'm a huge fan of both your acting and your land stewardship. We're now in similar situations female stewarding land learning how to nurture the land, heal the land, while also producing nutrient dense food and direct to consumer sales. So I would like to invite you to. Add to my introduction as you see fit. And then I have a few questions to,

rachelbrown 1:08

Great.

Christine Martin 1:08

our conversation.

rachelbrown 1:10

Thanks Christine, and great to be there. I feel you know what you're gonna get when you have an interview with a holistic manager and somebody who's into this space we're all in the same tribe and we all speak the same language, and we all have the same, I don't know, empathy for the land, and we had the same sort of spirit. It sounds pretentious, but in a way, a spiritual connection. And I just mean that. I knew that you would like the Bandera Festival, and I'd heard about the Bandera Festival and I and I guess it's about people who are thinking outside the box and that word new that's a great new WA a new adopter or something of, I knew that you would be someone who was thinking about different ideas

Christine Martin 2:02

Yeah.

rachelbrown 2:03

obviously Bandara is about a place where everybody's thinking rather differently. And just to fill people in. That's a conference that's going on today in, is it South Texas? Would that be south?

Christine Martin 2:14

It's in South Texas. It happens later on in April.

rachelbrown 2:19

Right,

Christine Martin 2:20

two day event hosted by Sovereignty Ranch. Which is Molly Engle Hart's the

rachelbrown 2:27

right. Oh, of course. Okay.

Christine Martin 2:32

She had a vegan restaurant in California

rachelbrown 2:35

her,

Christine Martin 2:36

And got

rachelbrown 2:36

Yes. Yes.

Christine Martin 2:39

and bought this land with her brother,

rachelbrown 2:43

I knew you'd be, I knew you'd be all over it. And I just got a thing from Charles Einstein who I follow. I got his an alert on my social media saying that's what he was doing. And I went, it was a conference about farming and food and music. And I just went, oh God, I'd love to be going to that,

Christine Martin 3:05

yeah

rachelbrown 3:08

It's nice to be here and and yeah, it doesn't matter what nationality we are or where we live there's a, connection that we all share.

Christine Martin 3:17

Of course. So what do you think that connection is? I know how I came about it. What attracted you to this to begin with?

rachelbrown 3:28

I think an awareness that we were heading in a direction that, you know and I don't just mean farming, I mean in every instance that we're just heading in the wrong direction. And and yeah, that sort of. Inevitable feeling that. Where, are we going? What can we do about it? Who are the people who want to turn around? Who are the people who are also feeling in this feeling so stuck. I knew that governments weren't really doing anything. They were all at the, in through to the corporations. They were all have to having to deal with efficiency and scale. And and I just went, that is so not where my head is. I also be living on the land now. Knowing what is happening to small family farms and and thinking about the long-term implications of that. And that basically that's seeing the whole infrastructure for us of the coast of Australia.'cause that's where all the farming goes and it's where all the family farms are and the inevitable decline or the inevitable. What's the word? Inevitable disappearance of those farms, really, and what's gonna take their place? And do we just want huge corporate farms all over the country, which means all our small towns will go because there'll be no need for them. So all of that rural life. We have to ask ourselves, do we want that to go? Most people live in the cities so it doesn't really affect them. A lot of people like to get in that Airbnb and go off and have a bit of country that is not gonna be there or available unless we start to turn things around For me, I haven't lived in the country for most of my life. I grew up in the country, but then spent the middle years of my life not being in the country and always being adrift. And I didn't really like living in suburbia. Then. I didn't really like being in the city. And then when I came back during COVID to the land, I went, oh my God, what took me so long? And I realized that as a. As a, those things that were, connected in childhood are still there and I'm really am still I'm just switched on by country beauty, country life, country people all of those.

Christine Martin 5:56

Real.

rachelbrown 5:57

they are, they're real, but not for everybody, obviously, certainly not.

Christine Martin 6:01

No,

rachelbrown 6:02

Certainly not for my husband. He's a suburban man, so his comfort zone is the coast and and suburbia, and he likes these nice mowed lawns and all of that sort of thing. It's, not for everyone, but for those of it, it is it's a, really valuable option for those of us that find peace and being in the country and that is threatened. I think that is very threatened. So that's massive and it's going on obviously in England. It's, we're not quite, yeah, it's certainly you in the us.

Christine Martin 6:40

Yeah.

rachelbrown 6:40

and we are not as bad, I don't think, as you are, but we are. But we're getting there too. That's the trend. That's the way forward. And maybe this, everything that's going on now is going to be a big reset and like COVID was a tragic, awful for some, but a great reset for others.

Christine Martin 7:01

Exactly. Yeah. Here in Texas, we're fighting data centers

rachelbrown 7:05

Yeah.

Christine Martin 7:06

that they're, wanting to build these huge data centers with all these solar panels, and we're fighting companies that are applying for well permits to drill water, to export water, to move, to sell at a higher price in Cities. which

rachelbrown 7:26

That's right. Okay, so here we are fighting blueberry farms, industrial fruit farming.

Christine Martin 7:35

Yeah.

rachelbrown 7:35

That's our big thing at the moment, and it's just the chemical density of which they, they use and they don't need to apparently'cause blueberries. Blueberries are pretty robust and don't need to have a hell of a lot of but they just, they've got a mindset. They spray every spray, the whole bloody thing. They raise the whole thing. They take every tree go down. They just look like massive car parks in the middle of the countryside. You what's it worth? But yeah, as there's always something isn't there.

Christine Martin 8:06

Always something. Always something. So you and I are both attracted to, living with nature and the giness and maybe some of the spirituality of recognizing that we're just one little piece of a whole. Your introduction to regenerative to holistic came through your neighbor, or how did that happen?

rachelbrown 8:34

A sort of confluence of things. I was part of something which was called the 2019 summer fires, which were a massive event and basically raised a lot of forestry down the coast from about where I am, which is Mid New South Wales. All the way down to the, to, to the to the size, to into Victoria. So they were massive, those fires. And I was my neighbor who was about a hundred meters up the road from me. Her house was burnt down, so I was very convinced my house was going to go and all of my land was burnt and all of my fences were burnt. So that was a big wake up call to be part of that, to see that. And we were right at the beginning of it too, we didn't know how big it was going to get, but it, affected our community hugely. And then I had an, I had a grandson, a new grandson, and I read and which certainly awoke me to what the future what, was in store for him. And then I read something called Call of the Reed Warbler by an Australian.

Christine Martin 9:49

Book.

rachelbrown 9:50

Australian author. Yeah, Charles Massey, who I just went, oh my God, what people have been doing this and not the whole world has taken up this thing, but they understand that this is out there and we are not all doing it. So there was that. And then finally. I, what was the other thing? Oh yeah, Mick, my neighbor, completely in synergy was awakening pretty much at the same time. And he is an unusual man because his father was completely a conventional farmer and he's spent his entire life he is half my age, but he'd spent his entire life as a conventional farmer, and he woke up to the fact that. He had four kids and his farm was not going to be producing in the same way that it was producing for him, and he had to turn around and do something about it. And he just saw the inevitable decline of his land and he. He went off and he educated himself and he got right into the whole regen ethos. And and then we came together at the same time and he was managing my farm at the time and he said, do you wanna take this on? And I was doing, yes. I wasn't sure that even wanted to have cattle.'cause I was certainly hearing the stuff. The cattle were part of the problem and and I was going, no, why don't we just do trees or something. Anyway, he convinced me that this is the way to go. And then I read the Charles Massey book and yeah, it was a no brainer. And it became a very interesting thing to be part of because of course I'd only had male farm managers. I'd only seen men on tractors. When I grew up with a, on a farm, there was always men in there. The women would maybe feeding a potty calf and doing the books, but that was about it. So I couldn't see what my role would be. And I had no skills to offer. So yeah, it was really the confluence of all those things that made me go on this adventure, which is what I've called it this fabulous. Back to the land, back to me, adventure.

Christine Martin 12:07

Isn't it though? Yeah. In your documentary Rachel's Farm you share your experiences with gaining these skills and that at one point you were banned from driving any equipment.

rachelbrown 12:22

Yeah, I was, I felt very impotent with the whole climate change avalanche coming. And I didn't really know what to do. I didn't think we were doing nearly enough, each of us individually. I, knew that we had to change radically. And so I got to a point when I went there's three ways that I can be I can be more potent in this area. And one was, I have a farm, I can change the way I farm. Two, I was a filmmaker, I could film it. And three. Most importantly, I was a consumer and I could start paying attention to my food dollar and what I was buying and how I would encourage this way of farming cheerly by how I bought my food. And that's been a great that's been a, that's with the supply chains the way they are, that's been a a challenge, but, and it's been, and it's where my advocacy has really come into play now, but we'll get there.

Christine Martin 13:30

Holistic management came about because Mick knew about it? I know in the documentary you shared that you felt you wanted to understand things better, so you purposely went out seeking education. How did holistic management become part of that education?

rachelbrown 13:50

He management became part of it because there was a course down the road that was being done on holistic management, so it was convenient. We have another one, which is RCA, which is resource consultancy, something or other which is also a very good course. But. I met and I met Brian, who is our mutual friend, and he was taking the course and and I then met a lot of other people. The greatest thing I got from the other course was a community, so it was in my area, and so I then. You then knew who were the people who was your tribe in your area, and you found people who were thinking like you. And that tribe has only grown. And when you move to the country, it's, you start again with your social group and everything. So it's in my social group here is just out of land management and people who are. Regen farming and thinking the same way. So we are very boring to anybody else who's not in this, place. And actually I did the, I did an interview the other day. The woman in the interview said that I, sp spoke very stridently and other people have called it passionately. She put it stridently and that she couldn't get me off the subject of bulls or fencing or whatever it was. It's probably true.

Christine Martin 15:21

but I agree to

rachelbrown 15:22

Yeah.

Christine Martin 15:23

I,

rachelbrown 15:23

Oh.

Christine Martin 15:23

When I was in my corporate career, which was commodity trading they didn't, wanna here. About the chicken processing I was doing or birth a calf. Yeah.

rachelbrown 15:35

Children would put their fingers in their ears when I'd started, but I got through to them because one of them now has a has this brilliant business that she's doing really well.

Christine Martin 15:46

shop. Yeah,

rachelbrown 15:47

Yes, good farm shop.

Christine Martin 15:48

fabulous work.

rachelbrown 15:50

She's doing fantastic where she has ready-made meals that are own, where she only uses regeneratively farmed food and organic. And it's really taken off. There's a lot of people out there, of course, who want to know that their food is pure. They want to know that there's not, and they also want to know that the animals are treated well and, there are a lot of people on the same, page. Anyway, so she started that and then my son has subsequently returned to the farm, so he's also farming, he's farming chickens. And so I they did take their fingers out long enough to hear the sense of what I was banging on about. And

Christine Martin 16:32

that's great.

rachelbrown 16:33

yeah. So there be done.

Christine Martin 16:35

and that community is so important because I know I'm in East Texas and I'm, relatively new here. I've only been here six years, so they still call me that. organic And, slowly but surely I'm finding those that are doing regen. Not very many are managing holistically, but I'm working on that.

rachelbrown 17:01

Right.

Christine Martin 17:03

The feeling of isolation. Especially because it's just me. I don't have a partner. It's me, myself And I'm managing this. It's been Very important for me to build that community. I love hearing

rachelbrown 17:15

Yeah.

Christine Martin 17:16

have that community there.

rachelbrown 17:19

Yes, I do. And interestingly the men that I found in this community are particularly, I know there's, they're particularly wonderful because that's such an unusual thing for them to be, I. To make that shift from the conventional to this. And it takes a type of man that can do that and is open to that and it's happens to be a particularly wonderful kind of man that certainly appeals to me. I found that I've got these friendships with men in my community that I never had before which has been great. And also we haven't really got to the point about the part about. It being the regen and the holistic management being so suited to a woman's sort of psyche and ability and, sort of natural attraction. But I have to say that I have found. I do need help because I don't have the strength I'm 68 and I, can drive the tractors and all that these days, but I don't have the strength in my hands for the PTO. Do you have that? So for anybody who's listening. And doesn't know the PTO is a part of the the attachment that anything you might need to put on the tractor and the PTO is completely designed for a man's hands. And you've got to press these buttons really hard while you agitate to get it connected, and I actually can't do it.

Christine Martin 19:04

Do it either.

rachelbrown 19:05

I do need a man to do that. So it's, that's very frustrating for me. But anyway, I have some darling men around me who always come to the rescue to put the PTOs on, and there are and the fencing. I also have a, I'm I'm quite. Nervous of some of these. I dunno if you have a fence puncture, which is the thing that, yeah. So I find that quite nerve wracking too, and it's got these terrifying signs on it saying beware, get your head out of the way, your hands out the way or goodbye.

Christine Martin 19:41

Yeah,

rachelbrown 19:41

there's a few things there that are just a bit scary. And there's, I'm very grateful for just that natural thing that men have around machinery. They just definitely have a. I don't know. For me anyway, they seem to have an

Christine Martin 19:55

It's built for them, right? Because it's

rachelbrown 19:57

It's built.

Christine Martin 19:57

the men.

rachelbrown 19:58

Yeah.

Christine Martin 19:58

And, my biggest frustration is men's their strength comes from their upper body.

rachelbrown 20:06

Yeah.

Christine Martin 20:06

don't have strength in my upper body. My strength is in my hips and in my legs.

rachelbrown 20:11

Right.

Christine Martin 20:13

I purposely and my, colleagues tease me all the time. Instead of using the step-in post, I use the T post with the T post

rachelbrown 20:21

Yeah.

Christine Martin 20:23

Because, I need that ranchfit program to build this upper

rachelbrown 20:28

Yes.

Christine Martin 20:29

because if not, I would be toast.

rachelbrown 20:31

Do you see that picture that in the documentary when I'm on my back trying to disconnect the trailer? That's exactly my strength is in my legs, so I have to get on my back and use my legs.

Christine Martin 20:44

Yeah,

rachelbrown 20:44

find, we find our ways.

Christine Martin 20:46

find out. We're resourceful. We're resourceful. So it is my opinion, Rachel and you, and agree or disagree, you've mentioned, the men that understand this way of management and stewardship, they understand. That they need to relinquish control. And it's more about the relationship. It's about the give and take, right? It's about it's I'm gonna try and then I'm gonna feel the resistance. And if there's resistance, then I'm gonna back off. And so it's a relationship based understanding that we're just here to steward rather than to take control and be extractive about it.

rachelbrown 21:29

Yeah. Yes. So you're talking about control over land, not not each other.

Christine Martin 21:35

Yes, Overland. Thank you for

rachelbrown 21:37

Yeah.

Christine Martin 21:38

clarification. Yeah.

rachelbrown 21:40

Yeah I think it's that they do like to control i've often wondered about this thing, why women? Such horse lovers. You know why women ride so much? And I feel that women don't mind having something that they can't completely control between their legs. And men like to have something they can completely control between their legs, so they like, that's why they like the motorbikes and they, don't like us. Women are used to that. We're used to having.

Christine Martin 22:12

we are.

rachelbrown 22:13

Energized by this thing that we can't completely control. It has been a challenge for me not to be able to completely control it. I've got cattle in this field at the moment. You can help me with this.

Christine Martin 22:25

Okay.

rachelbrown 22:26

So I've got cattle in my field and they're right beside the house at the moment, and I've got horses in those fields too. So it's quite eaten down. And I'm also about to plant a multispecies. So I've gotten the grass right down. And we have in my area, and you probably have it in Texas too, really long grass. We've got something called Setaria which in the summer. It goes ballistic. It goes up to seven feet tall. It's like elephant grass, and once it gets that tall and its seeds, the cattle don't really like it. Come winter it is their fodder, it's what they have to eat. And so in the summer I do slash and they do love that when it comes up sweet. And they can feast on that for a while, but in the winter I don't have perennial winter grass, so they've got to eat the long, grass. So I've opened a gate to get them into the next field. And I don't have dogs, so I basically have to. Have to nurture them in by the promise of something delicious. They do not want to leave my paddock with the short grass, even though they've basically finished it. They don't want to go into the paddock with the long grass and I can't get them all in. So I've had to leave the door open and they keep on coming back to my. To my home paddocks. So what do I do about that and how, and do I just have to make them eat that long grass or,'cause I we're not in winter yet but I've got these three paddocks of long grass that I'd quite like to slash or get down so they can do their final growth before winter. And I have been doing a lot of. A lot of research on your amp grazing that you have in America.

Christine Martin 24:14

Yeah.

rachelbrown 24:15

These paddocks are, oh God, the idea of trying to quarter them is a lot. I probably couldn't do that at the moment. I never know. With cattle, do you just make them,

Christine Martin 24:29

Yes. You make them.

rachelbrown 24:30

you make them?

Christine Martin 24:32

And part of the reason they're hesitating is if that grass is tall, the nutritional quality and the taste has probably been affected and so it's

rachelbrown 24:44

Yeah.

Christine Martin 24:44

to them, right? Their noses are their magnets, right? They can sense when something's high. Nutrition. That's why when you put them in a pasture, they go and they do inventory and

rachelbrown 24:55

Yeah.

Christine Martin 24:56

they find that high quality grass, and that's what they'll eat first.

rachelbrown 25:00

Yeah.

Christine Martin 25:01

you've noticed that. So this is, if you need them to be in landscape function, which is what you're trying to do, you're, trying to get that trampled or grazed. It is a force

rachelbrown 25:18

Yeah. But then.

Christine Martin 25:19

the go ahead.

rachelbrown 25:23

Mine do a lot of bellowing, like they all do and they're quite spoiled. I'm under stocked because I don't have perennial grasses in winter. I I, need the land for winter, but I don't need it for summer. So they have a smorgasbord in summer. But this grass has been kept. I probably grazed it twice this year. And it's got very long. But how do I know when they're genuinely hungry? When I genuinely have to move them? Or will they just go on eating? I suppose I could just keep them in there for as long as I wanted

Christine Martin 25:58

You

rachelbrown 25:59

did it all.

Christine Martin 26:00

until they get it all it, they're just like children, right? When

rachelbrown 26:04

Yeah.

Christine Martin 26:04

You take them to buffet, they're gonna What they like first until you

rachelbrown 26:09

Yeah.

Christine Martin 26:09

you can't. So

Speaker View & Screen Share 26:11

Yeah.

Christine Martin 26:11

we need to do with them and with respect to are they getting

26:20

the forage that they need

Christine Martin 26:22

That's where you look at the gut fill on the left hand side, do you know about gut

rachelbrown 26:28

Yes. Yes. What it, swells where you can see the Yes.

Christine Martin 26:34

Just before the, hip bone, I know I'm not calling it right, but that's, where you can say, are they getting

Christine Martin (2) 26:40

the forage they need

Christine Martin 26:41

or not.

rachelbrown 26:42

I feed mine something called Mega-Min pretty much daily, so they have their mineral quotient'cause we are very low in phos.

Christine Martin 26:50

Okay.

rachelbrown 26:52

And a few other, minerals. So they're getting that they're not necessarily getting their protein because it's so lignified at the moment.

Christine Martin 27:04

So they're getting a lot of energy, so you're probably seeing Their manure.

rachelbrown 27:09

yeah. It's not, certainly not stacking yet. It's still pretty runny. Yeah.

Christine Martin 27:13

Okay. Okay.

rachelbrown 27:14

Yeah. What about urea? Do you use urea in winter because you don't have No.

Christine Martin 27:19

I don't, no, I haven't. I have colleagues that have done, but I don't because I try and stay with the American Grass Fed standards And the whole reason I'm doing this is because, 23 years ago, I realized that the food I was eating what was causing my symptoms. So my protocol is work with nature as much as I can. I don't

rachelbrown 27:47

right

Christine Martin 27:49

I don't, fly control. Everything I do is

rachelbrown 27:54

Yeah.

Christine Martin 27:56

Be Because we are what we eat, right? And

rachelbrown 28:02

Yes Yeah, I do the urea in winter because, we have no grass in winter at all, and it feeds the microbes in their guts. So it's a way of getting them hungry enough to eat it. And I just don't know how they'd be without, and I put it in with molasses, so they have their

Christine Martin 28:26

Okay. That's good.

rachelbrown 28:28

as well as they have a bit of urea in there. And I also feed them a protein meal. Yeah.

Christine Martin 28:33

Yeah. I, shared before we started recording, but I'll share again within. Two years of being on this property, which I had to move because of a divorce, I was able to triple my carrying capacity, but it was always in function of grazing management, monitoring the ecosystem function. And as things improved, and as Rachel, once you start improvement, it's just exponential.

rachelbrown 29:02

Yeah.

Christine Martin 29:02

year four, I didn't have to use hay. Partly because I had enough stockpile forage that I could graze it over the winter. But I also started seeing cool season grasses grow from Seed bank. So I had a lot of perennial rye. I had vetch and I had clover grow that I never seeded.

rachelbrown 29:25

right.

Christine Martin 29:25

was because I improved ecosystem function so that because I had that stockpile forage, because I had those cool season grasses, I didn't have to feed any hay at all.

rachelbrown 29:37

And you left it standing. Did you cut it or you left it standing?

Christine Martin 29:41

left it standing. I am

rachelbrown 29:42

Yeah.

Christine Martin 29:43

am lazy by nature and I don't,

rachelbrown 29:46

Yeah.

Christine Martin 29:47

So I just plan my grazing. I use the grazing chart and I plan my grazing so that I'm monitoring for recovery. So all of that recovered grass is what I feed over the winter time now, before I had the cool season grasses coming. Generally between January 15th through March 15th, which is when I had my new spring grasses coming on March 15th, I did have to supplement for, protein.

rachelbrown 30:17

What did you choose?

Christine Martin 30:18

I used alfalfa cubes alfalfa hay,

rachelbrown 30:22

Oh, okay. You did have to buy, right? You bought hay, right? Okay.

Christine Martin 30:25

Yeah. I brought, in hay, but with respect to. How I support, I'm a firm believer that the rumen is what can helps digest. So have you ever heard of Steve Campbell or Dr. Will Winters? They're here in the us.

rachelbrown 30:44

No. Should I?

Christine Martin 30:47

oh yes.

rachelbrown 30:50

Okay, doc. So let me write it down, doctor.

Christine Martin 30:53

Dr. Will Winters

rachelbrown 30:55

Yeah.

Christine Martin 30:55

a trained vet, but he's gone very holistic. And he, it completely poo-poos chemicals and treats things with herbs and whatever. And he and Steve Campbell are huge advocates on supporting the animal with natural ingredients. And Steve Campbell in specific suggests that we have apple cider vinegar available

rachelbrown 31:21

Oh

Christine Martin 31:22

free

rachelbrown 31:23

really?

Christine Martin 31:24

Then,

rachelbrown 31:25

Well that's pretty expensive

Christine Martin 31:29

Yes. There is a way you can make it yourself and once you get that mother going

rachelbrown 31:35

right?

Christine Martin 31:36

but it's something you can do. I don't know what availability is for you in Australia. Brian might know,

rachelbrown 31:43

So you get, you can get it in bulk for sure. You can get it in bulk.

Christine Martin 31:46

Yeah.

rachelbrown 31:46

So do you mix it in with something?

Christine Martin 31:49

No, you just I, what I've done is I have a three compartment mineral tub that I put on skids, and one compartment has the apple cider vinegar. The second compartment has natural soda, otherwise baking soda.

rachelbrown 32:03

Oh, really? Okay. Yes.

Christine Martin (2) 32:06

And then the third compartment is called redmond's conditioner. Redmonds is a, company that is mining an old salt deposit and they've created this mixture that includes clay and trace minerals so that it's helping with buffering rumen pH and binds toxins And then when like right now early spring flies are becoming a problem, so I'll add a garlic to that natural soda. And that garlic will deter the flies,

rachelbrown 32:40

right. The baking soda, you'll add garlic to,

Christine Martin 32:43

the baking soda. I'll add garlic too.

rachelbrown 32:46

and that's powdered garlic.

Christine Martin 32:48

Powdered garlic.

rachelbrown 32:49

Really? Okay. Powdered garlic. And what about sulfur? Do you do any sulfur?

Christine Martin 32:55

No sulfur. I

rachelbrown 32:57

Okay. That's interesting. I have heard of this baking powder gig. What's the baking powder for?

Christine Martin (2) 33:03

It's the baking soda. Or it's called natural soda. It helps with the pH. And, it's also fabulous if they happen to eat some toxic plants, it helps prevent bloat from happening.

rachelbrown 33:22

Right,

Christine Martin 33:22

started using the baking soda when I had sheep. And sheep are terrible with bloats and it saved many animals because I had that available.

rachelbrown 33:34

right. I wonder how similar our, vegetation is in Texas, and as in where I am in Australia, do you get very, long grass that lignifies.

Christine Martin 33:46

Yes I have, giant ragweed and I have Johnson grass and Johnson grass. When it's gone through a drought or a frost, the prussic acid gets really high and it can be toxic

rachelbrown 33:59

All right. Scary.

Christine Martin 34:01

But because I have the natural soda and because I have a diversity of species, I haven't had any animal die on me yet. And,

rachelbrown 34:10

right.

Christine Martin 34:11

through droughts and

rachelbrown 34:12

Really no ticks. None of the calves have tick problems. No, Wow. You see we have snake bite here too. Had a few die of snake bite. No, no snake bites because you have snakes there. Wow.

Christine Martin 34:26

have snakes. Yeah. No snake bites. I do have livestock guardian dogs. That, that I think stir things up I have the poultry and because I have the sheep that, roam around.

rachelbrown 34:39

God, you've given yourself some work.

Christine Martin 34:43

It's a,

rachelbrown 34:44

well

Christine Martin 34:46

It's a system, right? And I then start all this together, right? I, started with sheep because the economics of sheep is much better. And full disclosure, born in Argentina, raised in Brazil, and so I've seen the big Brahma cattle jump over eight foot fences and whatever. So I had

rachelbrown 35:07

right.

Christine Martin 35:08

respect, fear of cattle, and I, I started with the sheep because I could put them in between my legs and I didn't have to have huge infrastructure. Then I brought in the turkeys pastured turkeys to help mitigate the parasites for the sheep.

rachelbrown 35:26

Oh really? Parasite. Okay.

Christine Martin 35:28

Yeah. So if if this is a grass plant the parasites live on these three inches just Ground.

rachelbrown 35:37

Okay.

Christine Martin 35:38

The, trick is not to allow them to graze that severely because then they're not ting the parasites and the turkeys are just like chicken and they're scratching and picking and whatever. And They,

rachelbrown 35:51

Have you got the turkeys with the cattle in? With the cattle?

Christine Martin 35:55

sometimes I do.

rachelbrown 35:57

Don't you have foxes? Don't you have predators?

Christine Martin 35:59

That's what the livestock garden dogs

rachelbrown 36:01

Of course. Yes. So you were just talking about the rumen when you were, when the rumen swells, when you look at a cow and they've got enough that you know that they've got enough, they've got fill. So in winter, do you, they still have a gut full? Do they?

Christine Martin 36:17

They still, yeah. Yeah.

rachelbrown 36:19

When I know we were talking about how when they've had enough Yeah.

Christine Martin 36:23

when they've

rachelbrown 36:24

Yeah.

Christine Martin 36:25

And when you're rotating them from one paddock to the other. And a paddock is a subdivision within a pasture. If you're moving them daily, you're checking them you move them to see how their gut fill is, and if they're, if it's indented, then you give them more area the next paddock And and so forth.

rachelbrown 36:45

So what are you giving them each day and how many cattle do you have?

Christine Martin 36:50

I am like you underst stocked cattle prices here in the US are just ridiculous and it's, too expensive. I am actually custom grazing some from a friend of mine who's in south Texas and had no grass, and I made an offhand comment send them to me. And he called me, he says, can I send you cattle. So I've got 20 head and the size of the paddock is com gonna be based on what's available. Some of these animals that, I'm custom grazing I have a bull with them. So I'm conscientious that they need to be on a rising plane of nutrition in order to get good read back. So I'm giving them more selection. So I'm focusing on performance rather than landscape. When I'm in landscape function, that's when I come in and do the high density

rachelbrown 37:48

right.

Christine Martin 37:50

Move them often. I am getting into springtime, so that means fast growth. So I'm having to move them more frequently then Then I will in Get into summer

rachelbrown 38:03

right. okay.

Christine Martin 38:08

Are you creating paddocks, or are you keeping the animals in the pasture for a period of time?

rachelbrown 38:16

I am moving, but I'm not moving as. Often as I recognize I should. What happened is before I started the regen and holistic management, I had 30 paddocks in about 350 hectares. And then Mick and I started increasing paddocks and making them the paddocks smaller, so I had greater herd impact. And then we went to 90 paddocks. Then I had another manager who wasn't really passionate about the regen thing and she was, managing and she didn't live that close, so she wasn't around to move the cattle as much. And I was still doing a bit of directing and I wasn't entirely on the farm, so then she moved it to 60 paddocks, and that's where I am now, which is still a bit larger. They're about four Hector Paddocks and I've got a hundred cows and about 60 calves in that. And basically I need to halve those paddocks and I need to move them each day. But some of those paddocks are. Just, I was thinking about the paddock to move and I just said, oh my God, that's a massive one. I've gotta move there. And some of the paddocks are easier because they're oblong and I just put the thing down in the middle. These ones are, it's quite a process to, put the electric the electric thing up. So I was hoping I could get away with that bigger paddock, but I think it's becoming clear that I. Can't, and I need to start going back to the smaller paddocks and getting better impact. So it does increase the workload, of course, and it's just me like you, it's just me doing it.

Christine Martin 40:10

Yeah.

rachelbrown 40:12

And I'm now in winter, so I'm now about to go into where they can be in the paddock for four days. They're gonna have to eat this lignified grass, and so I think come next spring. I'll get more intense about it, but I think for winter now, I'll probably just leave them in the bigger paddocks and

Christine Martin 40:32

Sure.

rachelbrown 40:33

I I don't really get that third thing happening. They eat a third they they Squash a third.

Christine Martin 40:41

attention to that,

rachelbrown 40:42

Yeah. They basically just go on eating the stuff that they like. And they're not really thrashing it down. What was the third thing? What's the other thing? The and then, they leave The other one they leave a third, trample a third, and they eat a third. That's, the sort of theory, isn't it? Yeah.

Christine Martin 41:03

That in holistic management, we don't like, we don't like to give you rule of thumb. Because there's so many variables. Anytime I get asked that question,

rachelbrown 41:16

Yeah.

Christine Martin 41:17

it depends. Tell Species type, tell me the number of

rachelbrown 41:21

Yeah,

Christine Martin 41:21

time of year, tell me weather, all this other stuff.

rachelbrown 41:23

Yeah.

Christine Martin 41:24

But, the one thing that I always focus on is, am I potentially overgrazing those species that the animals do prefer?

rachelbrown 41:38

Yeah.

Christine Martin 41:39

And in general, a grass will start, A grass plant will start growing after about three days.

rachelbrown 41:47

And they just keep at it. Yeah.

Christine Martin 41:49

And if they grow grows a little bit, they keep going back. And so then you do have a tendency of overgrazing that grass plant.

rachelbrown 41:56

Yeah. Yeah, But meanwhile, the rest of it is just grown away and

Christine Martin 42:03

Exactly.

rachelbrown 42:04

a challenge.

Christine Martin 42:05

where the, that's where the density comes in.

rachelbrown 42:08

Yeah. Yeah.

Christine Martin 42:08

creating the smaller paddock so that you can say, I'm only giving you this for one day. And I totally resonate that. That's a lot of work. One of the things that I was very smart about when I moved out here was, as I said, I'm lazy by nature or efficient, depending on how you wanna talk about it. And wearing a lot of hats. I knew I couldn't do everything that I should do, but I, what I did was I put in infrastructure and put in a lane system. The animals at the right place, at the right time for the right reason, with the right behavior Including the human

rachelbrown 42:47

yes.

Christine Martin 42:48

has been my saving grace.

rachelbrown 42:52

Yeah. Well done. I've got a lane way into, but not particularly in this place they're going to now, but let's talk about what's become my obsession now is how we facilitate the the chain link between. For those of us who are farming in this way and being stewards of the land and those in urban centers that get the idea about the kind of meat that we produce as a result of it and the difference and who are, obviously we are excluded necessarily. We can go down the same funnel as a feedlot. Producers, but what a waste and shouldn't we all be getting, not necessarily premium, but there should be an opportunity for us to reach those that want us. And the more we do it, the more we reach scale. Of course, it doesn't become a niche market so that we're able to make it cheap. We're we're able to operate with scale as well. We are in this situation where there are no supply chains really for for me to get or any farmers like me to get our food, get our meat into a particular market that is going to be a. Sought after in Sydney. So we are starting this thing at the moment called Farm through, where we want to have a sort of hub in each suburb so that people can have a curbside pickup or they buy in five or 10 kilo boxes. And I suppose my thing at the moment, my advocacy is trying to. Open up that thought for people to go, yes, it might be less convenient, but how much healthier is it? And I'm supporting farmers that are doing the right thing. And if I call myself an environmentalist, I can eat by my vi by my values and you know all the benefits and I can save. Save the whole infrastructure of the countryside from imploding. There are so many values but most of all, the health of eating a grass fed, grass finished animal. And the idea too, that. We'll give them jaws and teeth and to do something with and to get back to that thing of understanding what the taste is of a grass fed, grass finished animal and to be gnawing around a bone and yeah. And to it, and to get the benefit of the, minerals and the nutrients that are. Obviously in that where they come from feed feedlot, they've got too much omega six. So there it's inflammatory and how do we get that education out there for enough for people to seek it, to seek that kind of meat and buy like they would buy a nice bottle of wine that it actually has vigor of the country. Of where you are, you can buy a Missouri beast or you can buy a Texas beast or you can buy and

Christine Martin 45:54

right.

rachelbrown 45:55

on what sort of fat quon you want. So it is a sort of whole new way of getting people to think. And and as we know, beef margins are very slim. So it's vital for us to cut out the middlemen if we want to be stewards and we want to survive, we want to get more people into this space. We have to. Farmers have to know that this is a, this is beneficial for everyone and everything. So that's where I'm at the moment. How are you selling your meat? At the moment I'm selling direct to the consumer.

Christine Martin 46:30

I've always sold direct to consumer. When I started selling direct to consumer, I had just remarried, so I was in a new environment. I seem to do that a lot. And I didn't have a network, so I chose to, Do farmer's markets because I like talking to people.

rachelbrown 46:51

Okay.

Christine Martin 46:52

to the point to the, point that you've referenced, it's about education. It's

rachelbrown 46:58

Yeah.

Christine Martin 47:00

And, what I was very surprised about is educating people on how to prepare the meat.

rachelbrown 47:08

Yes.

Christine Martin 47:09

Because people have forgotten how to cook the convenience of ready-made foods. Not that the good shop farm is bad, but PE people just don't know. So I chose to do the farmer's market and I did the farmer's market every Saturday for 10 years. Some of that I was still working full-time at a corporate job.

rachelbrown 47:30

Wow. Yeah.

Christine Martin 47:32

passionate about this. Movies like Kiss the Ground, movies like Common Ground are Def Rachel's Farm Exactly. Are doing a lot to educate. But I think and I found this with my customers, it's generally people who recognize the relationship, the correlation between nutrient dense food and the human body and. Many of my customers were with battling cancer, recovering cancer just got a recent diagnosed and at least here in the States I, think this number has been updated. But in 1965, 4% of the total US population was sick. at least two years ago, 65% of our children were sick. And so the, cost of, medication, the cost of healthcare is starting to wake people up to say something's wrong. Our

rachelbrown 48:41

No.

Christine Martin 48:42

didn't have to have six prescriptions like we do now.

rachelbrown 48:49

Yeah

Christine Martin 48:50

And, there's organizations. Have you heard of force of Nature?

rachelbrown 48:55

Yes.

Christine Martin 48:56

in the, they're here in the US and so they are starting to do regenerative food supply chain where they're sourcing and they're putting them in some pretty big well-known grocery stores.

rachelbrown 49:15

Great. I think so do you had, did, when you went to your farmer's market, was that in a big city?

Christine Martin (2) 49:23

I did, I had to travel, when I was still married, it was only 45 minutes. When I moved, it ended up being about an hour and a half, But because at that time my ground beef was,$8 a pound. I couldn't sell It in my local market because,

rachelbrown 49:42

Yeah.

Christine Martin 49:43

they'd

rachelbrown 49:43

Yeah.

Christine Martin 49:44

go to Walmart. So I purposely put in the effort to go into, A college town There was a, much higher disposable income

rachelbrown 49:56

right.

Christine Martin 49:56

people understood the value that of the product that we're offering.

rachelbrown 50:01

Yeah. I've I'm, there's no way I can get to a big city to do this. I'm too far, I'm six hours from Sydney. But at the same time, I did recognize that yes, you have a Saturday market, but you need to have much more opportunity than that, and it can't be just. It needs to be so people can have it midweek or whatever. So I just felt that there was an opportunity there for a sort of farmer's market open 24 7 in the city where people could access this. And it's been great to be able to filter through a number of about 10 regenerative farmers in my area and we get them all sent down.

Christine Martin 50:41

Sure.

rachelbrown 50:43

So That's,

Christine Martin 50:44

reminds me of the, an organization here in the us they're based in Idaho or Oregon. One of the two called Azure Standard.

rachelbrown 50:55

yeah.

Christine Martin 50:56

and they, have a delivery drop, a monthly delivery drop They, I've been with them for the last 26 years.

rachelbrown 51:09

right.

Christine Martin 51:09

that I buy every month, but I can buy everything from seeds to, natural products natural cotton pads, natural

rachelbrown 51:19

Oh,

Christine Martin 51:19

shampoo,

rachelbrown 51:21

Yeah.

Christine Martin 51:21

feed. And then the healthy other products. And they also source locally for meats and vegetables. And what's lovely about them is you can buy in bulk. It's

rachelbrown 51:37

Yeah.

Christine Martin 51:39

It's a, truck that comes every month and they have a route and they have specific days and, everybody that buys meets the truck. They help

rachelbrown 51:48

that's great.

Christine Martin 51:49

then they go home and they stock up.

rachelbrown 51:54

That's great.

Christine Martin 51:55

They've, catered to the homesteaders, The preppers that

rachelbrown 52:01

Yeah.

Christine Martin 52:01

bulk

rachelbrown 52:02

And are they online?

Christine Martin 52:04

they are online.

rachelbrown 52:06

So you order online? You basically order online?

Christine Martin 52:09

you

rachelbrown 52:09

Yeah.

Christine Martin 52:10

and

rachelbrown 52:10

Yeah. They deliver.

Christine Martin 52:13

They, deliver on this truck A month.

rachelbrown 52:16

And is the meat frozen or is it

Christine Martin 52:18

the frozen. The

rachelbrown 52:19

yeah.

Christine Martin 52:19

frozen.

rachelbrown 52:20

we have to get also beyond this idea that it's brilliant to have meat that is frozen. Number one. It doesn't perish. So it just gives it so much more opportunity and the fact that you, if you freeze straight after processing, you lock in everything. We've got into this mindset that we have to have it fresh, and then of course there's the education that goes with that, that you must throw it out to room temperature, that it is a muscle, and are we speaking the same language?

Christine Martin 52:48

yes. We're speaking the same

rachelbrown 52:50

Yeah, but it is a muscle, and if you put a muscle that's cold on a hot pan, it's gonna go. And

Christine Martin 52:58

Yeah.

rachelbrown 52:59

to tighten up and be tough. And, but again, that sort of thing, I couldn't believe when I first went to a farmer's market and I had a blind test where I had people tasting my meat scotch fillet from me and a scotch fillet from the supermarket. And I had no idea really what quality my meat was. And it was really edifying that literally. Nine outta 10 or 90 out of a hundred people wanted Absolutely. When they tasted side by side with the supermarket meat and the grass fed, grass finished meat, they all went, oh my God, there's just no comparison. You know your meat, the grass fed grass.

Christine Martin 53:37

You, that's fabulous.

rachelbrown 53:39

my God. Yes.

Christine Martin (2) 53:41

I wanna share a quick story. I was raised in Argentina, and in Brazil before feedlots became part of their way of producing Meat. So we were grass fed, grass finished. And I remember when I first moved to the US and I tried my first steak, I spatted out.

rachelbrown 54:02

Yeah, I know

Christine Martin 54:04

I, it was just like, eh, no wonder you need all these condiments and rubs and

rachelbrown 54:09

Yes,

Christine Martin 54:11

tastes awful.

rachelbrown 54:13

Yeah. And we've forgotten. We have forgotten how good a taste, how good a steak can taste. And we've also forgotten how to use our jaws to actually we've got so used to this bland tender thing that, of course it's like a vela it sits in a feedlot. It doesn't use its muscles, it eats the bloody corn. And of course it's empty. It has nothing in it. And of course even somebody like my husband he likes the little tender, tasteless, rubbish. And it's so frustrating'cause I'm growing him all this fantastic meat and he's always going, oh, it's a bit chewy. And I go, that is the point. Use your jaws. And if I put it side by side, there's no question he likes it better. But he likes it both. Best of both worlds,

Christine Martin 55:03

yeah.

rachelbrown 55:04

yeah, I mean I can't eat in a restaurant anymore'cause it's all feed lots.

Christine Martin 55:08

yeah,

rachelbrown 55:08

Yeah

Christine Martin 55:09

Yeah.

rachelbrown 55:09

can't have a steak in a restaurant.

Christine Martin 55:11

says I'm too bougie about food. I'm like, I, that's okay. I'll be bougie

rachelbrown 55:15

Yeah, yeah. I'm gonna have to

Christine Martin 55:20

Yes, No,

rachelbrown 55:20

yeah, Christine, I'm gonna have to get cracking because unlike you, I haven't moved my cars this morning and I'm gonna try and get them into that field they don't wanna go into

Christine Martin 55:30

There

rachelbrown 55:31

see what I can do.

Christine Martin 55:32

so much for spending time with me. I've

rachelbrown 55:34

I enjoyed it.

Christine Martin 55:36

I would

rachelbrown 55:36

Yeah,

Christine Martin 55:37

again if you're willing because there's a whole bunch of other stuff we didn't talk about.

rachelbrown 55:42

Why don't you get people who are interested to, who listen and want to know questions to give you some questions so we can engage more

Christine Martin 55:51

that.

rachelbrown 55:51

your audience. Yeah,

Christine Martin 55:53

Yeah, we can

rachelbrown 55:54

great. Sure. Let me make a few more mistakes and get a few more stories in between.

Christine Martin 56:01

You're a great storyteller.

rachelbrown 56:03

Good on you. Thank you and good for you.

Christine Martin 56:06

Okay.

rachelbrown 56:07

See ya. Bye.

56:08

Thanks for listening to Regenerative Agriculture, thriving as a modern rancher. If you enjoyed today's episode, please subscribe, share with fellow ranchers and leave a review. Together we can regenerate our lands, our profits, and our lives. Until next time, keep thriving.