When Capital Follows Courage w/ Joe Rinderknecht | Ep. 20

A bidding war doesn’t always go to the highest number. Sometimes it goes to the strongest character. That’s the heart of our conversation with Joe of Cowboy Capital, a fund manager who grew up ranching, learned that a handshake is a contract, and used those values to win one of the best deals in Missoula without chasing last‑minute offers.

We trace Joe’s path from training horses and driving semis to stabilizing tough assets and building a local edge across Idaho, Montana, and Utah. He breaks down why proximity beats out-of-state speculation, how speed solves operational risk, and the discipline required to underwrite without “hope” baked into future cap rates. The Missoula story says it all: first to tour, real nonrefundable money, and the courage to hold firm when a higher bid appeared. That stance earned the seller’s trust and the deal.

Joe also lifts the curtain on investor communications that actually build loyalty: monthly KPI dashboards, full property management reports, construction budgets, and a YouTube channel for visual progress. He explains how radical transparency during a tough Utah project led to deeper relationships and larger checks, culminating in seven‑figure commitments and a streamlined LP base. We dig into his fund-of-funds strategy too—why backing elite operators accelerates learning, how he diligences monthly reports like it’s a new deal, and what he’s seeing in today’s market, from distress to special servicing opportunities.

The conversation expands beyond multifamily. Joe shares the story behind Tiny’s Tribe, the nonprofit founded after he lost his brother and grandmother in a car accident. The mission: support families through financial help, food security, home modifications, and mindset coaching so they emerge stronger. Looking ahead, he’s adding alternatives—oil and gas, storage, mobile home parks, and venture—to help investors diversify with a family-office mindset while Cowboy Capital keeps executing where it has an edge.

If you’re serious about raising capital with integrity, building local advantage, and communicating like a pro, this one will give you a working playbook. Subscribe, share with a friend who raises capital, and leave a quick review so we can bring more operators and more hard-won lessons to your feed.

Get the Free Capital Raising Course
Get Fund Flow Os
Join the Free Capital Raising Community
Apply to the Founder's Circle

Follow me on instagram
Connect with me on Linkedin

Transcript

Character Over Capital: Joe’s Origin

SPEAKER_00 0:00

What I love about this conversation with Joe is that it's not just a story about multifamily, it's a story about resilience, values, and vision. See, Joe didn't just start out as a fund manager in a boardroom somewhere in Manhattan. He grew up training horses and driving semis through the Mountain West. And it's the kind of work that teaches you what your word really means. He learned that on a ranch, your handshake is your contract. And somehow those same principles built his edge as a fund manager today. Now, when you listen to Joe talk, you realize something really powerful. Capital isn't just about spreadsheets and interest rates, it's about trust. He built his fund, Cowboy Capital, on that exact idea. When a seller gave him his word on a deal in Missoula, Joe didn't try to outbid anyone or play games. He held firm, honored his integrity, and because of that, the seller stuck with him over higher offers. That's the power of character and capital. And what's wild is it's not just his success that stands out, it's the redemption arc underneath it all. Years ago, Joe survived a car accident that took his brother's life. Out of that pain came Tiny's Tribe, a nonprofit that helps families rebuild after tragedy. He took the same faith, grit and humility that kept him alive and turned it into a mission to help others find strength through suffering. Now, think about that through the lens of fund management. A lot of people try to raise capital with hype, but what actually moves investors isn't hype, it's hard. It's showing up, being transparent, being human. Joe learned that the hard way through deals that went sideways and lessons that made him better. And this is exactly why I built Fund Founders, because this journey from operator to fund manager doesn't have to be something you figure out alone. Inside the founder circle, we help you do what Joe did. Build your fund with integrity, scalability, and automation. You'll get our full AI-powered CRM, the systems to raise capital on autopilot, and the weekly coaching to keep you accountable. It's where operators become fund managers and where character meets capital. And listen, if you're not ready for that level yet, start simple. I built a free capital raising course called Your First Million Dollars raised, and it is an incredible system. And it's not just a two-video teaser, it's a real step-by-step course with frameworks, talk tracks, and legal guidance that will show you how to raise your first million compliantly. And you can grab that for free, 100% free, right now at WeAreFundFounders.com slash free capital. Again, that's wearefunfounders.com slash free capital. Because what Joe's story proves and what I want you to remember is that capital follows courage. When you stand on principle, when you stay transparent, and when you keep learning, capital finds you. So as you listen to Joe's story today, the ranches, the rebuilds, the fun launches, and the families he's helping. Think about your own story. What could it look like if you built something bigger than yourself? If you built your own fund, raised your own capital, and created impact through investing. That's what we're building every single day inside of Fund Founders. Now, let's dive in to this conversation with the man they call Cowboy Capital himself, Joe. Welcome to Funds on Fire, the podcast that ignites the passion of investment funds and capital raising. Here we turn the complexities of fund management into clear, factual steps that drive results. I've invested into diverse real estate across the United States and manage thriving funds. And I'm committed to transforming lives through the vehicle of investment funds and helping others to do the same. Join me as we document the journey of scaling businesses, raising capital, and impacting tens of thousands of people around the world. My name is Devin Robinson, and welcome to Funds on Fire. Welcome to another episode. Now I'm excited. Today we're talking to Joe. And Joe, um, we just met, but uh there's a couple things. One, that as I've done my research, as I've learned about Joe, as I as we've been in, we're in kind of the same fund mastermind together, as I've learned a little bit about him. I also have loved loved just kind of his passion for one, he does a lot of investing into real estate, but also a passion to take it deeper than that. Um, there's a lot of events that have happened in our country lately. And so hearing his heart for helping up, helping others, helping families get through trauma, get through crisis, get through things like that. It's just really cool. And so we'll hit on that a little bit as well as talk about his fun. And I also am very excited to dive into his cowboy hat, which I know he wears just about everywhere, all the time. So if you guys don't see, uh Joe is rocking a cowboy hat right now, and I love that that is like it's not your identity, it's not like who you are, but it's like it's a pretty big like that's Joe. That's Joe. So I love it. Joe, tell us a little bit about yourself. Yeah, that's right. It's your brand. Tell us about yourself, where are you from? What do you do, man? I'm excited to dive in.

SPEAKER_01 4:44

Yeah, so I'm based up in uh Rexburg, Idaho right now. I'm a multifamily operator, you know, by apartment complexes across the Western Front. So mainly Montana, Idaho, Utah. We like to buy like right in our backyard and have a pretty good uh competitive advantage.

SPEAKER_00 5:05

So in this because there's I mean, I I know maybe like uh I know a guy named Casey Gregerson. Um you uh Casey's in Avester, but also Casey um he he's been on the podcast before, but he buys in Montana um as well, and just a great guy. So I don't know if you know him, usually guys, because should connect, but definitely connect. Yeah, it's but what I what I know is like he says that, and like I it sounds like very similar with you, is like you have a competitive advantage for being there because one, you know how beautiful is it is when other people like haven't realized it yet, but I know people are starting to, but also like you know the areas, you know the right place, and so what made you decide to stay in like that area, the the Montana, Idaho, um Utah area rather than go into like of course where everybody wants to be, like in the southeast US, in the you know, southwest area, like what made you decide to stay there, man?

SPEAKER_01 5:58

Yeah, I think a lot of it was so like both my partner and I, we've been doing multifamily for about uh a decade, roughly, right? And most all the deals that we've done have been in like Utah. Just like when we were getting started, you know, we just started with like what was local to us, right? Duplex, Vorplex, growing, you know, 24, 32 units from there. And then, you know, we started seeing a lot of people in the Utah area, especially moving to Texas and Ohio and Oklahoma and Florida and you know, buying deals all over the country. And I looked, I tried doing that a couple times, but it's just like I I never jumped into it there because just like you can't get there very quickly, and you have to like have a lot of trust with a partner that's boots on the ground, right? Like that's the most important thing if you're gonna invest out of state. And so what we just Levi, my partner and I, we really just dove into building broker relationships, seller relationships here locally, and we've been working on those for like the last decade, and it's just like the last 12 months we've bought four deals, you know, two two in yeah, yeah. We bought two in Missoula, Montana, one in Boise, and we actually are buying one in San Marcos, Texas. So but most everything that we buy is a four-hour drive.

Speed, Proximity, And Killing “Hope” In Ops

SPEAKER_00 7:36

So and like, and I noticed that so because I've I've I've heard you talk about that before. So you talk about it's I think you recently just mentioned something about like hope, right? Like we hope things happen, we hope this happens. And I I bet does does having that proximity, you said like hope the four-letter word or something like that, is having that proximity to the uh to the cut to the buildings, to to your thing, like does that help to alleviate that like hope that we all hope for in our deals? And I'd love to hear more about that.

SPEAKER_01 8:03

Yeah, I mean, when you have direct access to your deals, you mitigate a lot of risk because I know that if the how the property is burning down, I can get my truck right right now and get there super quick, right? I can go take care of the issue. And so the best way to solve a problem is speed, you know, to resolve it. Yeah, you probably read my LinkedIn post. I had a property in Utah where it went it went sideways, you know. Like I'm happy to talk about deals where where you know I was involved in a deal that went sideways.

SPEAKER_00 8:35

I think it's important, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

Yeah, totally. You know, I don't have all winners, and I've learned a lot from the losers. But the one of the biggest learnings is like you said, like when people say, Oh, I hope my contractor got my voicemail, or I hope they got my text, it's it's not secure. It's not like you didn't actually talk to them, so there's assume like that's like as bad as assuming, right?

SPEAKER_02 9:03

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 9:05

I'm trying to remember the other four-letter word, but like saying I hope. Like hope can be used very positively, but using it in the sense of like not actually doing the action or doing the thing that's going to fix the problem doesn't work.

SPEAKER_00 9:21

Yeah, I mean, and I think um, and I think like you you've talked about that too, like when it talks about exit cap rates, right? Like pushing back against uh underwriting really low future cap rates, like cap rate compressions as speculation. Like given today's interest climate rate climate, and hopefully, like hopefully we got about five days to find out if those rates are gonna drop a quarter or a half, and I'm hoping for a half, but anyways, what's a realistic like how should people underwrite these without hope? You know, because I think people run into issues, and I'm not saying you have to go into like your whole underwriting thing, but you've talked about that idea of like underwriting low future cap rates, and so like how do you predict against that or make sure that you're you're safe and and and not safe, but like I mean as safe as you can be, but that you're mitigating a lot of that risk.

Underwriting Discipline And Cap Rate Reality

SPEAKER_01 10:08

Yeah. So I I mean cap rates are pretty subjective, right? Like the price that you buy a cap rate at and what you sell it at. I I think like all four of the deals that we've bought in the last 12 months have amazing stories. I for for example, like the first deal that we bought in Montana, we bought it September 30th of 24. So we're almost coming up on a year. We bought it for 6.8 million, but we bought it from a 20-year owner who originally bought built it back in 98. We bought that for a 3.9 cap. Wow. We have it on the market for sale right now at 11.7 out of 50.

SPEAKER_00 10:48

I don't think so. There you go.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

We've been able to go in, we went in and renovated 20 units all at once. So we we did like a blanket increase of$385. And we thought we were gonna lose 60% of our tenants, but we had a 60% retention, and that just goes to show you how strong that market is and the demand. That is crazy. So 20 units vacated, we renovated 20 units in four months, and our average like increase because we've done two or three renewals. We're like across the board.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

That's crazy. That's a massive I mean, what's funny because you said 20 units and you said in four months, and I'm like, wow, that's a machine. So so like for you, I and I'm I'm I know you did a little bit, but like you've had to have some sort of construction background to be able to go in, be able to come in there, be efficient like that, and to be able to put it right back on the market pretty quickly in that time frame. So, like, how did you get started in in the real estate? Was it through construction and then and then what kind of got you yeah, and how'd you get started in real estate? Let's just go there.

The Missoula Deal Won On Integrity

SPEAKER_01 11:53

Yeah, good question. So I kind of got into it by accident. I so for those of you, I'll kind of go back to the beginning just a little bit, right? I wore the cowboy hat. I grew up uh ranching and farming, training horses, right? For those of you the German meaning of my name, Rinder Connect, actually means keeper of the herd. Wow. So it's bred into us from the beginning of time, right? And so my family's still cattle ranchers, and so I grew up, you know, learning the values that you learn on a ranch, you know, working hard, your word is your bond. Like those values have helped us, you know, win deals, like this Montana deal. And we can talk about that, but my dad was in construction, and so I have worked with him on every area of construction with framing and concrete and trim work and flooring and just the whole gambit, right? But I was always the labor guy, so I did I didn't really learn like the process of building the machine until about 2021. I'll go to that in a second, but how I got started in it was back in 2015. My wife and I were living with her parents, and we were working for them, and we were work living and working for them. And they had a semi-company, and so I drove semi for them for three years from 2015 to 2018. And so we got pregnant in that time, and we're like, we need to get out of the basement. This is not healthy, and so we live we lived uh close to Logan, Utah at that time, and we were making good money, and so we're like, hey, let's let's go buy a duplex, right? Because like most people get started in real estate, you listen to Rich Dad Poor Dad.

SPEAKER_02 13:57

A purple value.

SPEAKER_01 13:59

Yep. And uh so we went and actually bought the most expensive uh duplex on the market, which at that point was like 175. Um, and we lived there for five years and pretty much, you know, lived for free, right? And once we bought that first duplex, then you know, I bought a fourplex uh subject to the mortgage, flipped a handful of duplex fourplexes, and this is all while I was still driving semi. Right? Um, and then I started really going heavy and multifamily in about 2019. I actually didn't buy any deals from like 2019 to 2021 because I always grew up learning that if you want to learn something, then you go and find somebody who's doing it and learn the trade from them.

SPEAKER_02 14:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

Right? It cuts down to which is a lost art.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

Like the I mean, we can you shoot, we can stop on that, like the lost art of apprenticeship, right? I think we're in such an inf like information and mastermind and coaching and courses, time where people, I think there's just a lost art of learning from some like learning from learned experience. Um there's a quote that says, like, a smart person learns from his own mistakes, but a wise person learns from others' mistakes. And so it sounds like that's cool. So you you found somebody that you learned directly from there?

SPEAKER_01 15:23

Yeah, a couple different groups. So I at the time when I really started that, I was actually under contract on like a 44 unit. It's been my first big property, and I had only done like residential for less than four units, right? And I had a commercial property management company give me a budget on like what they could do with the property, and it was like$120,000 that they could generate in ancillary other income. And I was absolutely blown away because I was like, well, wait, how? How does this work? Because like when you deal with duplex sportplex, it's usually like hey, you could rub some utilities, you could have an application fee, you could have pets, but like outside of that, there's not much you're gonna do. And so I saw the power of that and was like, hey, I need to learn everything there is to learn about commercial. And at that time, I I had lost the deal, so I went back to the guy who gave me a budget and said, Hey, I want to learn. Do you have a job? And he was like, Are you sure you really want to do this? I'm like, I'm sure, I don't care, just put me in. He's like, I'm ready, put me in, coach. And so he calls me and says, Okay, uh, I've got a property, it's 80 units, a Litech property. I had no idea what that was at that time. For the listeners who don't know, Litech stands for low income housing tax credit. And so he they threw me. Yeah, yeah, this one was already uh built though. Yeah, there's a lot of tax breaks we need to build. So, anyways, when I my first day on, I learned that the property manager had not been there for two weeks. He was MIA. There was like over it's like$20,000 in delinquency. They're like 80% occupied. There was a lot of crime. I didn't know there was crime and drugs in Utah until I went to that property.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

Oh, geez.

SPEAKER_01 17:24

And cockroaches. Oh, the roaches. And yeah. So I had no prior property management experience. I just wanted to learn. And I was only getting paid$24,000 a year. Right. So it was an apprenticeship, and I got paid pennies essentially to learn. Right. The cool thing about that is that's what really helped me cut my teeth on stabilizing a property. Because within eight months, we were able to have like one vacancy, and we we were like a couple grand, like less than two percent in delinquency on a month-to-month basis. And we had worked with our local strike force cracking down on the drugs. One story that I really like to tell is we with the strike force, we found out that our maintenance guy was dealing meth and doing meth inside outside of the in the maintenance shop. And in the maintenance shop, he has all the cameras and access to everybody's keys, right? And so I got tipped off by a resident who had been in the drug world, and he's like, dude, just to let you know, this guy is dealing and he's not doing good things. He's like, But if I ever hear that you tell him that it was me that told you, I'm coming after you. Yeah, you can't. You know, because he'd been in that world, and he's like, I I came here to get out of that world, and so I want to help clean it up.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

That's great.

SPEAKER_01 18:56

So we we uh put a hidden camera in the shop, and it was really cool because like on New Year's New Year's Day, I was in Hawaii in 2019, or it was like 2020, and my manager calls me and says, Hey, look at your phone, look at your cameras. And it was a video of the strike force taking him down and arresting him and a couple other guys he was dealing with.

Apprenticeship: From Ranch To Property Ops

SPEAKER_00 19:22

That's crazy. Out of your out of your apartment. That is a wild story, man. Jeez. So you've had to deal with a lot from from like from starting, and and I'm I'm really curious because it sounds like you went from four to 44. And in that process, like, or not for that, that's what you were moving towards. You're trying to do that 44, and then you went into this one. Um, did you have any understanding of like, oh man, I need to go raise capital for this? How am I gonna get the money for this? Or did you have a partner for it? What was that like for you?

SPEAKER_01 19:50

That process, it was rough.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

Sure. They're like, so you have a couple of houses and you want to do multi-family?

SPEAKER_01 19:57

Like, yeah. Well, I had always done multi-cam. I've actually never done a single family transaction yet, it's always been multi. But um, yeah, the 4040 unit came because it was an old rancher who knew my great uncle, and so it was, you know, we had some synergies there, and he wanted out, and so I'm like, you know, I'll take a shot at it. I looked back at the first offering memorandum that I built for that deal, and it's it's horrible. And it makes sense why I never got any investor capital because I had I didn't know better, right? I was just shooting from the hip, doing my best to accomplish, you know, a goal that I had set for myself a couple years prior. But what I learned from that process is that like, because I I had no relationships as far as you know, with people who can fund deals like that. So I almost had to get a hard money loan, and that would have probably not worked out, you know. I would have but that was going through that process was really good, and that's what led me to doing the property management, and then um so I after the property management, I only worked there for eight months. I got stabilized, and I'm like, what's the next challenge? And they're like, we don't have anything, and so I was like, okay, well, I'm out. And so I went and worked for a couple other operators around the country learning the full deal, the life cycle of a deal, you know, from cold calling to acquisitions, due diligence, asset management down to dispositions. Oh, nice. So there's a group out of Austin called Obsidian Capital. Some some of you may know them, but like they were one of the biggest impact on me because like they they were extremely organized and had things figured out on the asset management side. So like I'm using the stuff that I learned from or the way that they report that the way that they manage, like I'm using that stuff today, you know, for for my own properties.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

Yeah, and that's like important. I really do think there's so many people that jump in, and there's there's something to be said. Like, yes, jump in, and I mean this is what I did. I jumped in, I've joined Masterminds, and I kind of learned on my own. But there's something to be said about being able to go in, you join a company, you work for that company, right? Like you learn from that company. It sounds like you've done it twice. You did it on the property management side, which really cut your teeth on being able to stabilize properties, being able to, I mean, it doesn't get any worse than like a drug, like a drug apartment. To then being able to be where it's a desirable place where people want to go, and then learning how do I get those off-market discounted real estate that really that that's what you want? Because I think I saw somewhere, and we'll probably go into this because I think you hinted at it earlier, but I think it was on some like your North Russell aisles. You you got that because like high integrity, like you had you beat other people out because of who you are and how you address that and and the way that you approach them. So I'd love to hear about that because I think that probably plays in from you learning from that company out in Texas, and then being able to take what you learned and then take who you are, combine that to be able to use that to your competitive advantage. So I'd love to hear how to hear how that was for you, man. Before we continue, I wanted to tell you about something that's been an absolute game changer for fund managers and capital raisers just in general. If you're trying to manage any investor relationships with spreadsheet and scattered emails, I want to introduce you to Fundflow OS, the intelligent capital management platform that's transforming how capital raisers raise and manage capital. Funflow OS gives you everything you need in one powerful platform: investor CRM, automated deal pipelines, distribution tracking, document management, AI-powered tools that help you crush investor relationships, conversations, and close more deals. Whether you're raising your first fund or managing syndications or doing fix and flips or trying to raise capital to hold properties, FundFlow OS streamlines your entire workflow, track investors' commitments, automate follow-ups, generate professional reports, and even provide your investors with a branded portal to view their investments. Heck, if you're even lending, you also have a lending portal that you can have when you lend out your own money. Plus, the built-in AI tools, you can generate compelling fun summaries, craft persuasive emails, and get instant answers to complex investor questions. The best part, you could try everything completely free for 30 days. That's right, a full month to see how Funflow OS can transform your capital raising process. Just visit Funflow OS slash fire. That's F I R E. No credit card required. Stop managing investors like it's 2010 and step into the future of capital management with Funflow OS. Go to funflowos.com slash fire. That's F I R E and claim your 30-day free trial now. Now back to the show.

First Big Lessons In Raising Capital

SPEAKER_01 25:05

Yeah, one thing I want to touch on really quick that you mentioned as far as like the whole apprenticeships. Like that was drilled into me from a very, very early age. Right. Like where my family were ranchers, right? Like I learned it from kind of the trades. You know, like I'm an oldest child, and so like my dad, like he was not home very often because he would go to his day job and then he would go trim out spec houses at night. And there were multiple years that I would go and help him all night long and learn. And then there was periods of time where it's like I wanted to become a professional horse trainer. And so I went and worked for a horse, a local horse trainer, and mucked out stalls and you know, got beat up by Colts, you know, young horses that wanted to kill me, just so I could learn from the professionals in that are in that space. Right. And it's really cool that it's allowed myself to have I think it takes like long-term vision too, right? Um, because most people like I need to make money now. They don't have that long-term vision of saying, Well, can I go 10 years without making a paycheck to make an impact on myself in 10 years? Right. And so like that's really served me. So going moving forward to well, let me tell you a story really quick with that 44 unit, and it it will roll right into the North Russell deal. So the 44 unit, the reason that deal fell apart is, you know, I was working with another rancher, and what we believe like your word is your bond, your handshake is your word, right? Or your handshake is your word, your word is your bond, and that's everything. Like you have nothing else in this life really but your word that's connected to you, right? What you say. And so we had agreed, you know, I was gonna buy that for four million. I couldn't raise a capital, couldn't get it done, and I called him and I said, Hey, I've got a guy here, he'll he'll do it with me for three. And he just said F you that's not what we agreed on, done. And that's has stuck with me. I didn't keep my word. And I tried to go again, like I understand that like in deals, like you have to like like if you find stuff, like it's okay to negotiate, but like ever since then, like what we call in the real estate world like reneging or renegotiation is completely against what I believe. It's like if I'm gonna go under contract, you better believe I'm gonna close at our agreed terms, right? Like we'll renegotiate if like big things come up that we're not known, but we're not gonna do it, right? It's a standard for us. And so when we're doing the North Russell deal, and this I'll say too, like, this is another reason why we feel like we have home-filled advantage, if you will. Like, we know our markets really, really well. So when this deal in Montana popped up on the market, we knew that it was an amazing deal. Like, and it it we it hit my email like on a Wednesday night at like six o'clock. I immediately called Levi, my partner, on that because he and I had been trying to buy deals in Missoula, and we got the rent, like the agent was on top of it. He sent us the rent roll within 12 hours. We had submitted an offer within 24 hours. I was on site walking the property. So we were first to offer, first to do the tour. We offered 50k non-refundable day one, right? Because it was 98 build, 54 units for 6.8. Uh, we it was actually listed for 6.6. We offered 6.5. So it was like 118, 120,000 a unit, which is crazy because the last day we tried buying there traded for 300 a unit. And so we knew that market. So by the time that we had toured it, there was like a dozen offers, right? So fast forward to um kind of the uh call for offers, these it was a late Sunday night, and we had come up on our price all the way from 6'5 to 6'8, because like a couple hundred K isn't gonna hurt that much on that per unit basis. And so we got up to six eight, added a little bit more non-refundable. We beat out 12 other groups, and our agent said, K, the seller has verbally agreed to do the deal with you at 6'8. I'll get you the paperwork tomorrow. Awesome, great, we're so excited, right? We got one finally in Azula. Is it's that's a hard market to get into. And so Monday, like around noon, comes around a call Eva. I'm like, dude, I'm concerned. Why have we not heard from the broker? And so we get on the phone with them, and like our worst fears were yeah, essentially our worst fears. Somebody came in at the 11th hour, like 11 o'clock. He's a local. A local buyer that the seller knew had a local presence, right? And offered 210,000 higher. So seven, yeah, 710. 7.1 million. And so the agent was just like, Do you guys want to come up again? And what do you want to do? And so Levi and I got off the phone. We spoke for five minutes. Because he he comes from ranching and farming too. His family were big uh potato farmers and black English up in up in Oregon. So we grew up with the same, the same values. Your word is your bond. We called the broker back and we're like, nope, we are we are not moving. You know, we wanted that bat that deal so bad, like our teeth ached, right? Because it was the best deal that we had seen in a couple years. Like, but we were willing to let it go. And instead, we said, Hey, we want you to tell the seller that he gave us his word, and the seller was selling this property to go buy a ranch. And we're like, you know what? We're from that same background. We believe your word is your bond. And when you say something, you stick to her, like we understand if you gotta take it, it's more money. Like, great, like we're so excited for you, but like we're not coming up. And if you do this for us, like we will do everything for you, and we will close on time, we will execute. And the seller came back and said, I like these guys' attitude, let's do it. Nice. I mean, and that's the deal done.

SPEAKER_00 31:33

Yeah, and that goes to show um I think there's a lot to be said about. I mean, sure, what when we make this more relational than transactional, there's a lot to be said about how far you can go and the massive competitive advantage that you get. When you stick to who you are, and so I think one thing that I've seen from you consistently is that you stick to who you are no matter what. And I love that I think I saw something where it's like no matter the context, you're in a gun range, you got your like you're in the shooting range with your friends, you got your cowboy hat. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like you stick to who you are, and I think that that builds a pretty good name for you in your area, especially when you do things locally like that. And so I'd love to hear so I know you have cowboy capital. I'd love to hear what the what your what your fund is, what you guys do. It sounds like you've got some a pretty good um just of of units up there, and I'd love to hear just a little bit more about what you guys do.

Fund Of Funds Strategy And Operator Diligence

SPEAKER_01 32:21

Yep. So uh with UPC fund, which is our customizable fund. So those of you who've talked to Devin probably know what a customizable fund, right? The simple way that I like to explain it is you can raise capital like a fund and deploy it like a syndication. Yeah. And so I started the fund back in 22 with a couple guys and a mastermind that I was a part of. And the reason I started it was the deal that I was telling you about that went sideways. We bought that deal in March of 21 and sold it September of 24, so just about a year. And that deal went sideways because of construction mainly. And I was spending three to five days a week at the property swinging the hammer to keep the deal alive, right? And I had no other deals, I had no other income coming in, and so I needed to generate some level of revenue, right? And so that's why we started the fund up because I realized that there were so many like really solid operators out there that were really good at what they did, that they're vertically integrated. They had the local presence, right? And they had a lot of the same qualities and standards that we have today at Cowboy Capital. And I went and started raising money to to put into some of these operators that were that had an amazing track record and knew what they were doing.

SPEAKER_00 33:59

That's all I'm curious. I'm curious for you because like I don't run into many people who run a fund of funds that that invest into themselves and others. It's either like they're investing into their own deals or they're investing into others. And so I love that you do both because you are you are an operator from your construction project property management background, but then you you and you trust others enough to be able to invest in them. How many other operators do you invest into? And then, like, what's your level of involvement? Because you you seem like you have that operator mindset, but then you also do go out and find good deals. So, what's that like for you being a fund of funds and being able to invest into others and yourself? And then, like, what's and then I'm I'm probably gonna take it a little bit of a step further later. Is like, what's your split? Like, are you more into yourself or are you more into others? So I'm curious. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 34:45

I'm definitely more into others for sure. Again, long-term vision is if I give more to my investors now and they have an amazing experience with me, which we'll talk about like through Cowboy Capital, it has shown and shown and shown itself again repetitively. You know, I'll get my piece. Right. So the one of the main reasons why I really liked the idea of working with other operators is because I've I've realized and I'm humble enough, I think, to say that like I don't know everything. There's still so much I don't know. And so if you come from it with a like coachability standpoint, like I want to invest with guys who were where I want to be. Zach Haptenstall, Rise 48, they got a couple billion AUM. They were our first deal we raised capital for. Now I get to lift up the hood of their operations a little bit and see how they manage, how they report, how they do construction management. I get to see it from a little bit higher level perspective. I don't have any control, like I'm a full-blown LP on that. So I I really only get to see what every other LP sees. But I have a personal relationship with Zach and his team. And so if I was to say, hey, can you give me context on this? They'll send it to me. Because, like, from an operator standpoint, like we did a lot of due diligence on them and their deal and liked what we saw, but the due diligence doesn't stop there, right? And so every time we get a monthly or quarterly report or a property management report, like I dig into those numbers as if it's a brand new deal, right? Because I just want to make sure, like that it to me, that's that's the best way that I make sure that my investors don't lose, is that I'm ahead of the ball. If something is going sideways and an operator, not saying that Zach is doing this, but there's been there's a lot of operators right now where their deals are falling through, they've stopped distributions, there's capital calls, there's deals being foreclosed on. We're buying the the deal in uh Texas right now is a deal that's in that was in uh special servicing, right? We're buying for like three million less than what the buyer bought it or seller bought it for two years ago. Uh anyways, we can go to that if you want to, but um, and then this other group out of so that that deal is that captain saw's 176 units. We raised 710,000 for that, which was pretty good from my very first race, right? I had built some credibility, um, and had a couple partners who had you know credibility, and and we had started building that track record, um, which are the most important things when it comes to raising capital. Yep. Um, and then we invested in 368 units in Cincinnati, Ohio. Um, and I love those guys. It's called Venture Communities, Robbie Hendricks, Steven Rice, they're pretty easy to find on LinkedIn. Those guys, like I love watching their progression. Um, because they they're a lot like me. They only buy in in uh like the Cincinnati MSA, right? They they own a couple thousand units and they won't go anywhere else, right? Because they know their market, they have that competitive advantage, they can beat anybody if the deal is right, you know. So that deal that they I invested with them on, they had a similar situation where like they built the relationship with the seller, they were able to negotiate seller financing. Who negotiates seller financing on a 368-unit barmer complex? Like, that's great. Not many people think you can do it past like four units, you know, but they got it, right? And so it's been really cool for me to be able to lift up the hood of all these operations and like learn from other people's experiences. And like I've got a really good relationship with like Robbie. Like, I probably text him at least every week or every other week, you know, and they're they're going through the whole EOS program right now with traction, and so like they're doing it, it's I have a very begin with the end in mind brain. And so, like, I'm probably gonna start doing EOS during the next couple months, you know.

SPEAKER_00 39:06

Nice, yeah, and I I love that man, because it sounds like and I have I and if you if you ever want somebody like to consult on come in and help you with all that stuff, I've got a really great team that can come in and really crush it with you guys and your team when it comes to that stuff. So if you need that, let me know. I'll I'll I'll hook you up. And and it's really cool because I think that kind of segues into like you being an LP, I think also really probably has shaped in the way that you have like crafted your investor communications and the way that you have transparency, the way that you the way that you communicate and keep up with them, inform them. And so I'd love to hear about that because it feels like that's a big part of who you are as well, is and what you guys do and what you guys run is your investment or like your investor communications and experience. I'd love to hear to hear a little bit more about that and how you treat your investors.

Radical Investor Transparency That Scales Trust

SPEAKER_01 39:55

Yeah, um, it's a great point because yeah, through the fund, I see how these guys do their reporting. And there's some that I don't love as much, and like the Ohio guys, like they send like reports back to back to back, just tons of reports on data, the market, and what's going on in the properties, and I love it, right? So that's like a good experience, a bad experience that I had with communication is let's go back to this Utah deal, right? Um, that went sideways. So all of us were fairly new in that deal. We we should have known it's a 1951 build. We were taking a 24 unit to a 32 unit, right? And when things started going really sideways, right, because it was this time period of five of interest rates doubling. So ours went from five to ten, right? Um, we got taken, taken, you know, for a ride by a couple of our construction people. So we had to go through like two, three different construction contractors. Um, we when we would send investor reports, it was always sunshine and rainbows. It was never like their motto, and I apologize like if they listen to this, but like it's the truth. Um, like the motto they had was like not telling them what's going wrong. It's like no news is is better than telling them bad news. Right. And yeah, not at all. That's for investors. Like I I had about like 150k of like family money in there. Like I had a cousin, uncle, my father-in-law was in there, and then one of the other partners had brought two investors into that deal. And it got to the point where like we didn't communicate until the ship was about to sink, until we were about to have to foreclo get foreclosed on. And luckily, the investors were they gave us mercy essentially, and they worked with us, like really one in particular worked with us to figure it out, right? And I was a minority partner, and so like I jumped in with like and I kind of went behind my partner's back and talked to this investor because I was tired of there not being any communication and him knowing what's going on. So I got on the phone with them and I was terrified because I did not know the consequence of not communicating. I didn't because like I had heard people of getting sued and like taking over possession of the property. Like, I didn't know the result of this conversation, but it was the right thing to do, and so I did it anyway. And I'm so grateful that I did that because fast forward to today, because of my experience with that individual investor, he rolled like 800,000 from the Utah deal into that North Russell deal. And now he's invested over$2 million with me. He's on my board of directors and he's like a GP and signing on the loan on our Texas deal, right? Just because I communicated. Now, what I learned from that is like if you're an LP or you're a GP and you got to think like, how would I want to be communicated? Like, you want to be able to understand where for me, I have a very analytical, like detailed brain. So like I want to know, like I like seeing dashboards and I like seeing numbers and trends, right? And so essentially we give our investors access to everything. They see the property management reports, they see our construction numbers. So when we send out our monthly newsletter, we send out uh like the the written newsletter, and then I have a handful of dashboards that I really like to send them, showing them certain KPIs, but they get access to all the property management reports, our PL balance sheet, all the financials from our accountants. And you know, the other thing that the other two things that we've done that I haven't seen anybody else do is we started a YouTube channel because a lot of our investors are not very close to the property. And so this YouTube channel, we go in and we update like on a monthly basis, like construction updates. Because if you think about it, there's people who like to read information, there's people that like to hear information, like people listening to this podcast like to listen and retain information through their ears. Other people like to watch it, right? And so we give our investors all of those options to be able to read, to listen, to watch. And so that YouTube channel really shows them the progress that we're making instead of just a couple photos, right? And so, like, we give them ultimate unlimited access to any of our documents information because I've seen like the Dale in Texas, like he the seller, he's going to prison for defrauding investors, but like when I saw his financial reports, he wouldn't show anything underneath debt service, right? So, like, what's all hidden below the line? Right? I know. So anytime you're willing to not be transparent to investors and hide stuff is when you're gonna start getting in trouble. And so we just have that standard, like we will show our investors everything, even if it's not sunshine and rainbows. We're very good at having fierce conversations, we're very good at running out the bad news and walking out the good, right? Um, and the other thing that we do that's different than I think most operators is most people just have their offering memoranda. We also build a called an asset management plan that I learned from the Obsidian group out of Texas. They probably still do this, but what we'll do is in that asset management plan, we'll go in and outline the business plan in its entirety, right? Roles and responsibilities of the property managers, the assistant property manager, the leasing agent to the construction manager, to, you know, our insurance, our bookkeeping, everybody on our team. And it it essentially with the business plan, we'll go over budgets and expectations of KPIs and just outlining the entire scope of the business plan. And then we have everybody who has a role and responsibility sign it so that we're all on the same page. Because like we bought a Dylan Boise two months ago, and because of that asset management plan, we started renovating three units day one that we owned it. Day one, right? And we've owned it for two months and we're like six, seven units in, right? And that asset management plan has helped us execute with speed, but also it so the same investor I told you about that was on the one with me that went sideways, he's invested in every single deal that we've done since then. And he's like, he's like, something crazy just happened. We're like, okay, what? He's like, My wife read through your entire asset management plan, and I didn't even have to tell her to. And she loved it.

SPEAKER_02 47:23

Heck yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:24

So it's it's more about the spouses too. Like not very investor or operators think about, okay, well, what are the spouses thinking? Because they have so much impact on the decision of investing, right? And so if you can make the spouses happy, you know, and so that's what we have found like with our YouTube, because the spouses they don't want to read two pages of numbers and statistics and whatever. Like if we can show them what's happening, like we've got amazing feedback from the asset management plan and the YouTube channel. So it's like if you guys want to stand out, like I I would I would do that right away. Like it's it's yeah, it's been huge to retain investors and to continue getting bigger and bigger checks. You know, with our fund, we were used to getting like 50k a K checks. On our Boise deal, our average check was 435. We raised 2.85 million with seven investors and got our first family office. On this Texas deal, we're raising six million with eight investors, and our average check is in the seven.

Asset Management Plans And Fast Execution

SPEAKER_00 48:34

Nice, and that's how a return. Wow, and a lot of that has to do with right, you've created this no-like trustability factor with you through creating different mediums of them being able to invest or like or not invest, mediums for them to be able to learn and grow with you, and then also to see your growth and see how that's gone, and then the transparency to show because that's at the end of the day, people just want to know and make sure that their money is going where it said it's gonna go and then it's being used. Because even I, you know, I've talked to I've talked to people and had people interviewed on here where like even if you like your deal is tanking, but you're giving updates, like you're given like you're you're keeping people updated and you're staying transparent, that goes a long way for people to go, okay, I know what to look for in the future, but at least they kept me up to date about everything that was going on. And so, like, I'll tell you that like straight up, honestly. So I have a single family fix and flip fund, and we're doing that the last couple of years, and the market just tanked, sucked for single family houses. Houses sat on the market, we lost on on flips, and it just was like that was tough, but we were very, I mean, I actually moved into from like from like quarterly and monthlies to like bi-weekly updates to all for all of bi-weekly and weekly updates for all of our investors, so they knew exactly what we were doing that week, super transparent and giving them updates on it. So that I mean, because like it wasn't going well. So I wanted them to know that, and then wanted them to know that like what was the plan for recovering all of it? And so, like, because we didn't have one single asset, we could recover all their money, which is great just by doing more deals. But then it was like, what in the world? Like, as long as they know, and I love that you you base it off of transparency and experience, and for them to kind of see and and like peel back the onion and the layers on the business to be able to see that because it makes them feel more comfortable investing more money. I love that. Now, just to just to go on a on a this is gonna be like a a wild out direction, but I I also think that what we do and what our purpose on this life for is much bigger than ourselves and also much bigger than any one deal, much bigger than any any amount of money. Um because I think we have a really unique impact. And I also think this is I mean, really, when it comes to funds, there's there's something about the level of not I don't want to say power, but a level of influence that comes with a company like ours, where we raise capital, we we are in charge of capital, and then we can deploy capital, and that gives you a certain amount of influence. So you have a really really unique position to be able to impact the world. And I know that you have a non-nonprofit, tiny tribes. I would I would love to hear a little bit more about what that's come from and the impact that you make in the world, and even how you feel like what you do now helps you to leverage or you can leverage what you do now to make a bigger impact in the world through that.

SPEAKER_01 51:16

Yeah, yeah, agreed. You know, I love the multifamily and I love the building of it. I love most everything about it. It's a tool though. You know, it's a tool into the more personal passion. Yeah. And so, yeah, Tiny's tribe. So, backstory on that. I was in a uh pretty bad, I was in a very bad car accident back in 13. I was in the car accident to be specific. Um, I lost my little brother and my grandma in that car accident. Uh, my little brother was we're 22 months apart. He see, I had just turned, so it was March of 2023, so he had just turned 21, and I was turning 22 in April. And he was driving, and neither of us had seat belts on. And just to make a long story short short without putting a lot of detail in that, my brother was my best friend, he was my worst enemy and my best friend. If if any of you have siblings that close, it's like I'll die for you, but I'm gonna fight you like crazy too, though. You know?

SPEAKER_02 52:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:28

So I I lost a piece of myself in that accident, and you know, so my brother passed away instantly. My grandma lived about a week, and I was in the ICU for about 10 days. It's crazy, you know. God is good. There's a reason I'm supposed to still be here because I didn't have my seatbelt on. We rolled violently many, many times, and I went out of the vehicle for a short period of time and like got rolled over, shattered my femur, somehow went back into the car. I remember just kind of floating as it was, you know, metal and glass crashing around me. So, see, where should I take it from there?

SPEAKER_00 53:09

The tiny strap.

SPEAKER_01 53:10

Yeah. Um, one thing that I learned from that accident is like when I was laying on the ground after EMS and ambulance got there, is I I was given what's called a priesthood blessing that's you know, in our religion. I'm a member of the church, LDS church, right? And I remember in this blessing, I was I was given a second chance. Like they spoke over me that I was given a second chance to be here because I was not living life on my terms. Growing up, I always lived for everybody else. My parents wanted me to be an x-ray tech. I was going to college to be an x-ray tech because of a safe and secure job. And I always cared what people thought about me. And so that second chance is when I was like, okay, I'm changing my life for me. Right. And I would not be who I am or where I am today if it wasn't for the love and support of my community because they helped pay for like my hospital bills, the funeral, the uh life flight for my grandma. And I probably lost sleep because of the number of people that came and made sure that myself and my family were okay, you know. And I could have gone down a very dark road. I could have, there's two paths at this point. Go through traumatic incident. You can go down the road, deep dark road of saying, you know, why God, you took my brother, my best friend, away from me. And, you know, because like I've met people that have gone down that road.

SPEAKER_00 54:44

A lot of people go down that road, yeah.

Bigger Checks, Fewer Investors

SPEAKER_01 54:46

And like I know one person specifically who like my message really touched. He's like, his brother committed suicide. We're all safe and healthy here. When you listen to this, you're all safe. Just put that out there. Um, but like he went down the road of like doing drugs and like he finally found God and came back, right? And was like, I realized like I went down that dark path. Instead, I went down, I I was lucky enough to have people help me help direct me down that path. And so it that whole like second chance lit my soul on fire. I quit medical college immediately, and I went into um uh business. I started getting into like the entrepreneurship program and I got married five months later, which so many people told me not to do because they're like, you're just trying to fill a hole I'm like, yeah, but like this, this you know, my who is my wife now, uh and has been since you know August of 2013. We'd been dating for a year and a half, and I was just at the point where like I was a yes man all of my life up to that point. And after this happened, I was like, uh I love you, but screw you. I'm doing what I want, you know, and that and so Tiny's tried. So I started that about five years ago. Um, and what we do is we help people the way that I was helped, essentially. We find people who've been in some type of like tragic incident or accident that results in death or serious injury of somebody in a fender, you know, husband, wife, kid, you know, it's all it all sucks. Um, there's four main ways that we help. One, I mean financial, right? They're like the necessities of life. The first one is financial, like to cover, you know, hospital bills or food or you know, just to live, just to give them because like the the biggest reason that we have tennis tribe is to help people have an out uh like a positive, optimistic look outlook on an optimistic outlook on life, help them move forward stronger than they were even previously because I I became stronger than I was prior to the accident. Right. And we do that by helping them with financial needs. We help them with food. So we've worked with local ranchers where we've given like half a beef, a pig, you know, half a beef will fill somebody's freezer for a year, right? We work with other, there's like a company in Utah called Citrus Pearl, where they make like the meals in a bag that you can throw in a crock pot and they get a joke, right? And then third aspect is like construction, like home renovations, like if they need a wheelchair ramp, we've gone and fixed decks, we've remodeled homes, right? And then the fourth one, which is the most important one, is mindset, right? All of the other stuff is temporary. Like if you don't have your mind right, then nothing else really matters. Right. And so that's the biggest one that that we're really gonna be pushing on and really making sure, you know, to help people go through that, you know, whether it be a grieving process or identity change. Yeah, I was talking to somebody last night where, you know, this person was an athlete, something happened, he lost his legs, you know, like that's an incomplete identity shift. It's like you gotta find yourself again, you know. So, like whatever that may be, we want to be able to help people in their mind because you know, with that mind, you don't really have anything, you know. Um, and so we've we've done a lot of really good. Um, there's been multiple families that we've done like uh got galas for and raised 20k for each family. And um I let's see, it's been since 23, since I've done a lot with the uh nonprofit, just because I have to provide for my family first. And that was about the time when things were going in left field in my other Utah property. I was lipping off credit cards, and so it's just like I didn't have any brainwidth to help others when I couldn't like really help myself and my family. So now that we're doing really we're doing a lot better, like the last 12 months is you know what I've been training for the last 10 years, essentially.

SPEAKER_00 59:30

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 59:31

How many on Q1 of 26? Like, I'm gonna like relaunch and really start making that impact again. Because like that's I feel like that's what my mission is on Earth is to help people in that way. And and locally, I think our local communities need far more love and support than I think we think.

SPEAKER_00 59:54

There's no doubt about it, man.

SPEAKER_01 59:56

Too proud to ask for it most of the time.

Purpose Beyond Deals: Tiny’s Tribe

SPEAKER_00 59:58

Yeah, yeah, there's there's no doubt. out and it sounds like a I mean and and for I mean you're so right there's there's so many things that happen in this world that one we can't control and um end up making a massive massive impact and changing the lives of a lot of people instantaneously just world turned upside down and you experience that and so I love that you're able to step into that gap for people and fill the need there because one you you've experienced it you experienced that and what that did for you and your family and the need that and the way that people stepped in and so I'm I'm excited for you as you start that journey again start it back up and keep it going and keep it moving forward because I would imagine is Tiny Tiny your brother so Tiny was my brother Clancy's yeah nickname so it's kind of in memory of him and then tribe is just like you know everybody coming together. Come together and like that memory is what brings it on and pushes it forward and it's the story that that continues to light the fire of what it well what it is and and people resonate with that and what you're doing. And so I'm glad you're doing it man and I'm excited for you as you continue to live through that purpose. But as we as we kind of land the plane as we kind of onto this now this podcast is called Funds on Fire what what for you and your fun is firing you up going into this next year right we're going into 2026 we're going into the end of this year.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:15

What fires you up about your fun and what you guys are doing and where you guys are heading yeah so just I was in Scottsdale last two days and the thing that I'm most excited about is I I may found like a new kind of partnerships to work with on the fund because I have been I've been ultra focused on cowboy capital buying apartment complexes and so I haven't done a lot with the fund since earlier this year. And I I plan on using like my fund for more what are they calling it right now alternative alternative investments outside of multifamily because like there's a lot of people that are what we like to say like pregnant and multifamily so it's like every dollar that wants to go to multifamily I want it for cowboy capital right yeah so we're we're starting to look at uh like oil and gas and venture capital and some other you know assets real estate assets like what are some like mobile home parks, RB parks, storage units. You know, like I'm very passionate about the whole like family office concept. And so I think there's like the oil and gas is a really cool way for like high income W-2 people to be able to offset active gains even though they're not a real estate professional. Right. And so it's like I want to be able to help my investors like diversify outside of multifamily and give them you know a really good experience doing multifamily with me and then alternative investments with other people who are just so gosh dang good at what they do like we are with multifamily.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:55

Yep. I yeah I definitely have to connect with Casey because Casey is buying in Montana and he was in oil and gas he actually lives in lives in Texas but he's from Montana or he's from yeah he's from Montana he went to the university quarterback at I don't think he was a quarterback at University Montana. Maybe but he does stuff with them all the time. And so he does he did oil and gas for a while and then he does multifamily up there. So I got to connect you guys because sounds very similar and there's you're right there's a lot of people that are going into you know just going into more alt assets just to be able to figure out what else there is because multifamily is kind of in a place where like it's a little scary with these rates so then what else if they've got dry powder sitting like what else can they put it in because they want to be able to continue to make money on their money. So that's fantastic man.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:40

I'm excited for you thank you I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:44

Heck yeah man be good next year. That's right. And that is uh I I I believe it man I believe it especially heading into the second half of this month I'm hoping it's gonna be a good end of this year as well just when rates drop the way they do. Yeah so it's gonna be it well Joe where can people find you where can they follow along on your adventures on your follow that cowboy hat of yours and then keep up with you especially with what you're doing with Tiny's tribe man when you get that started back up where can people find you yeah so I'm largely on like Instagram and LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:12

I have a Facebook profile but most of the time it's just Instagram flowing to Facebook. Um and then I do have a Tiny's tribe Instagram page there you'll probably only find a couple posts on there but we're gonna start ramping that back up. Also cowboycapitalus is my website and then upcfund.com is the fund website. And outside of that you can email me at if you want talk funds email me at joe at upcfund.com or joe at cowboy capital.us if you want to talk acquisitions.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:46

So nice man well thanks so much for being on I appreciate you excited to continue to keep up with you man. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:53

Thank you Devin sure appreciate you having me on yes sir.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:56

Wow I hope you enjoyed that I have a quick favor. If you've been enjoying the show there's one simple way you can support us and it's by hitting that follow button or that subscribe button on the app you're listening to. I want to level this podcast up in every single way possible bringing you more value, incredible content and guests and new strategies. Following the show and leaving a quick review goes a really long way in helping us to grow and continue to deliver top tier content. It's the only free thing I'll ever ask you to do and it makes a bigger impact than I can possibly put into words. So thank you for being a part of this journey and I'll definitely catch you on the next episode. To great success and greater impact. Peace