Re-writing the Rules of Women's Health: Meghan Rabbitt

When journalist Meghan Rabbitt sat down with Maria Shriver over a salad, she didn’t expect to walk out with an assignment to write the women’s health manifesto, but that’s exactly what happened. In this episode, Meghan joins Jess and Maureen to unpack the surprising truths behind her groundbreaking book The New Rules of Women’s Health, from the myths we still believe to why language and self-advocacy matter more than ever. Get ready for laughter and some jaw-dropping intel (hello, cow clitoris!) on this episode of She WHAT?.   

Visit Meghan's website and her instagram. 

For more, visit She What? on Instagram.

Brought to you by Capital Health

Credits:

Producer and Host: Jess Downey

Producer and Host: Maureen Petrosky

Producer and Editor: Leigh Iacobucci

Artwork: Peter Yates Design

Know someone with an amazing She WHAT? story?

Transcript

Meghan Rabbitt (00:04):

I really try to bring women what we most need to know about our bodies, about our health, so that we can feel like we have the education we need to advocate for ourselves.

Jess (00:22):

I'm Jess Downey. You might know me as Editor-in-Chief of Real Woman and Thriving Magazines for Capital Health. And I'm

Maureen (00:28):

Maureen Petroski. You might have seen me on the Today Show or CBS Mornings as an entertaining expert or know some of my books like Wine Club and Zero Proof Drinks,

Jess (00:37):

And we're two friends who created She What?

Maureen (00:40):

<laugh> a podcast that digs into the personal and often surprising stories of women who inspire us. 

Jess (00:47):

and they get real about the wins, the fails, and everything in between.

Maureen (00:52):

Here we invite her to tell the whole story, the pain she endured, the triumph she celebrated, the friends she made along the way, and maybe even how she reinvented herself.

Jess (01:03):

These are the kinds of stories that make us think. They make us laugh, they keep us going.

Maureen (01:08):

Need a dose of inspiration. It's here. Need a fresh perspective. We got that too. Hi Jess.

Jess (01:19):

Hi Maureen.

Maureen (01:20):

Jess, this is a really special episode for you.

Jess (01:23):

Mm, I've been so excited for this. We're about to talk to someone who is very close to me. Megan Rabbit and I met at the University of Delaware College newspaper and she's been one of my best friends ever since. The really special part of our 25 year relationship is that we've had a front row seat to each other's careers. She's written tons and tons of amazing articles for a real woman, women's health. She's now has an incredible gig at Maria Shriver Sunday Paper. I've watched her evolve into a truly exceptional journalist that she is today, and she's here with us today for an extraordinary reason. She wrote her first book and it's a total game changer.

Maureen (02:04):

Total game changer. And she is amazing. I got to meet her at your 40th birthday, which was super fun. And man, this book, the New Rules of Women's Health, is helping all of us equip us with the essential info about our bodies. I mean, you'd think we would know by now, but we got a lot to learn. We

Jess (02:21):

Got a lot to learn. And I'm just so grateful she wrote this book. We need a book like this. And come January, everyone can have their own copy from this point on may be written that women will know important things about their bots.

Maureen (02:35):

Yes. Don't miss this one. It's so good and so important.

Jess (02:39):

This episode, we also get a little bit real pull back the curtain on some personal, slightly embarrassing misunderstandings that should be basic information for all women.

Maureen (02:50):

Megan debunks centuries old misconceptions and we get a little education on how to love living in our bodies. So stick around. Meghan Rabbitt, welcome to She What?

Meghan Rabbitt (03:08):

Thank you. I'm super happy to be here.

Jess (03:11):

I've never been more happy. <laugh> <laugh>. Meg's has always been that best friend for me who is so super smart. I can talk to about like body stuff, sex stuff, career stuff, all that good stuff. And the exciting thing about this book that you just wrote is that now we all get to have Meg as our bestie to help us through some of the body issues that we didn't know we needed to know. So thank you <laugh>.

Maureen (03:36):

So exciting. I mean, Meg, this book was a massive undertaking. I mean, daunting topics like puberty. I love right off the bat that you call it a major transition because so many things in women's bodies, we sweep under the rug and we're like, oh, puberty, menopause. Like it's nothing. And and I love that even you used the word major because these are major things, but in so many ways. But how did you get to be the one to write this book?

Meghan Rabbitt (04:01):

Yeah, I feel lucky. I feel like I kind of, I was given this project, uh, I, I work for Maria Shriver and she over a salad in the, in her LA office said, I want you to write a book. I want it to be a women's health manifesto, and I think you should write it. Wow. And so I I amid salad bite and like my eyes get big and I'm like, oh, okay. Maria Shriver, <laugh> <laugh>.

Meghan Rabbitt (04:29):

So, you know, yes, I had the great privilege of being being commissioned to write this book actually. So that's, that's how it came to be. And I think because of that, you know, Maria is such a force, she's such a journalist, um, to be respected and admired. And, and I think that because she wanted me to do this, I said, okay, I've gotta hold this, this project. Like it's a, it's my baby for that I'm raising for three years. And so I really try to bring women what we most need to know about our bodies, about our health so that we can feel like we have the education we need to advocate for ourselves.

Jess (05:04):

So the Maria Shriver of it all aside, you are selling yourself a little bit short. 'cause you did have like decades in the making of, you know, becoming a women's health writer, becoming that expert, talking to a million experts. Like how, so talk about that.

Meghan Rabbitt (05:21):

Right after graduating from college, I went to New York City. I couldn't get a job in magazines, which was my passion. And so I got a job as an intern for Rudy Giuliani's Office of Operations. Huh. And sure enough, as baby Meghan, fresh outta college, I found myself on the New York City Rat Task Force. <laugh>

Meghan Rabbitt (05:40):

What the Rat Task Force does is really try to keep the rats away from the people, you know. Um, so yeah, I was an intern. I did not play a big role.

Jess (05:49):

I did not know that you did this, Meghan.

Maureen (05:51):

I did not know this either.

Meghan Rabbitt (05:52):

That's where it all started, ladies. And then thankfully I got a job at Parenting magazine, uh, which was part of Time Inc at the time and just kind of worked my way up through the ranks of magazines, print magazines. And I always found myself gravitating towards, but also getting put on the health beat. And so I really have spent the last 25 years of my career reporting and writing on these women's health topics.

Maureen (06:14):

Well, we all have that beat in common. We worked on magazines. I was at Conde Nast with Bon Appetit and Jess, you were with Rodale, right?

Jess (06:21):

I worked at Maxim my first job.

Maureen (06:23):

Oh, Maxim. That was the first one.

Jess (06:24):

As one does, right? Of course. With the men's mags.

Maureen (06:27):

Yes. Yeah. How far we've come, my goodness. From the Rat Task Force days. Um, but Meg, now it feels like women's health is really having a moment.

Jess (06:36):

I was just gonna say

Maureen (06:37):

That menopause being one that is just constantly in the news now, it just feels like something we talk about regularly. And that is a big part of your book. Also, I think all the parts are big. Maybe we should say I've had just a few moments to really dig into the book and I'm so excited already because I'm a Catholic school girl, and so I legit know nothing about my body and <laugh>, I <laugh> I felt so excited when I was flipping the pages because I was like, oh my God, oh my God, that what? Like, even the pictures, I'm just felt like I was being empowered with so much knowledge. Like how did you dig into women's health? Like where's the starting point?

Meghan Rabbitt (07:12):

I'm so grateful you said that because I think that even those of us who are super highly educated and read a ton and just are, you know, upstanding citizens and we want to learn more and we we're curious and still even, we just didn't get the, the education about our bodies and our health that we deserved. Um, hopefully we're doing better for our young ones now, but I have suspicions around that. That was what part of my mission was on this book, right? Is to say, okay, health news and information changes all the time. It's the nature of research. It should change if we're doing the research, right? And so this book isn't filled with like the latest studies. My aim was to give people a baseline knowledge of our bodies so that we feel even more confident, um, about trusting ourselves when it comes to symptoms that may come up, trusting the stories we tell about our bodies and our health, not only to our friends, but also certainly to our doctors, to our healthcare practitioners.

Meghan Rabbitt (08:09):

So that we believe ourselves first and foremost, and then we, we get believed. And if we aren't believed when we talk about our symptoms, our health that we find a new doctor. You know? So it really is meant to be. It sounds like it empowering, you know? And I do think we're at an amazing moment where we are talking about, certainly I can't go to a party or, or even a coffee with a couple girlfriends at my age, at age 46 without talking about menopause. And I think that's a great thing. I'm here for it, you know, it's like my mother's generation, she's in her early seventies, they would never talk about these things, you know, even my mom now beautifully. So she'll talk to me about, I'll, I'll ask her of course, like, what was menopause like for you? And she'll be like, you know, I was pretty lucky a couple times I felt a little blue <laugh>

Jess (08:56):

<laugh>.

Maureen (08:58):

Oh, is that what you call it? Blue? Yeah.

Meghan Rabbitt (09:00):

That's also just my sweet mother, you know? But, but I do think, you know, her generation had this way of tamping down the realness of it. And I think part of the beauty of this moment in women's health we're having right now where we're talking about it, is we're not sugarcoating it as much. We're just, we're being more real about it and authentic. And that's such a great thing.

Jess (09:21):

Well, sugarcoating was sort of just what we did generally. Like I've, I might have told you both this story already, but with apologies to my cousin Eric. We weren't allowed to say the word tampon around him. He would like cry and run in the other room. <laugh>, <laugh>. And so I, yeah. So I feel like even with my upbringing, which was, you know, pretty feminist forward, that was like just a thing. We didn't, we weren't allowed to talk about all that kind of stuff. It was a, like the icky stuff or whatever.

Maureen (09:50):

Yeah. I feel like we're doing a better job now that we are normalizing it. When we got our periods in grade school and I got my period when I was 11, that's really young. We would hide our pad in our sleeve of our sweater. I went to Catholic school, we would hide it in there to try to go to the bathroom. Like no one could know this was happening to you. It was from the jump of stigma and menopause was a stigma. It was like, oh, you can't have kids anymore. You're old, you're dried up. But I went through menopause in my early forties and for years I went to doctors saying, oh, this is happening to me. And they weren't believing me. They kept telling me I was too young, I was too young. Finally, I switched doctors. I went in bawling crying to this woman.

Maureen (10:28):

I mean, I was a hot mess. I cried for like a year. Now granted it was my kid's senior year in high school, so I thought that's why I was crying. They were leaving me, but I should not have been a total wreck every day of my life. And I went into this new doctor and it was a woman and I said to her, this is what's happening to me. And she's like, you're in menopause. And I'm like, I know I've been saying that <laugh>. I was like, thank you so much for hearing me and listening to me. And she's like, I don't usually do this without a full exam, but I'm gonna put you on some hormone replacement therapy right away. And so we did that. I went back the next week, got my full exam 'cause I basically snuck into that appointment. And then I went back just a couple weeks later of being on hormone replacement therapy. And I had felt so normal and good and in control.

Jess (11:17):

Are we still calling it hormone replacement therapy?

Meghan Rabbitt (11:19):

Mm. That's such a good question. So this was, uh, a really big aha that I've talked to Jess about because we talk about all the things. Um, but actually, you know, a big surprise for me, one of them, um, in writing this book is actually so many in the menopause space. Many doctors and um, are trying to encourage us to get away from using the phrase hormone replacement therapy and instead use menopause hormone therapy or just simply hormone therapy. And the reason is really cool if, if you're a feminist and, um, and that is that HRT hormone replacement therapy, medicalize, menopause, you know, in a way it's like, oh, your estrogen is down and so it needs to be replaced. But actually what we're doing in menopause, if you're taking hormone therapy right now, you're just giving yourself a little bit of a supplement of estrogen and progesterone.

Meghan Rabbitt (12:14):

If you have a uterus. It's not like you're trying to get to levels that you had when you were in, you know, before menopause. And, and so using the appropriate language like that is actually really helpful because it just kind of a, it normalizes the fact that we are all gonna go through menopause and there's a treatment that can be helpful for some. And it reminds us that words matter. You know, like hormone replacement therapy takes us back to the old WHI days, which did a lot of damage around that treatment, you know, the Women's Health initiative. And frankly, like the, the reporting around it really scared an entire generation of women out of using hormone therapy. And now we're trying to get away from that and say, look, for some people it's actually really helpful. And a big shocker is that if you ever took the birth control pill, you are actually getting like way more estrogen than you get in hormone therapy in menopause.

Meghan Rabbitt (13:05):

And so I think that's super fascinating as well. 'cause a lot of my friends are like, oh, I don't wanna take hormones. Like I wanna go through it naturally. And it's like, well, if you ever took the birth control pill, you've got a way higher dose of, of estrogen in that than you will in hormone therapy. And so I I'm on a bit of a mission to say, I think it's great that you're talking about it, Maureen, because it's like more people need to know that that was a game changer for you. And to be able to then ask like, is it right for me? You know, I think, I think getting back to why it's so amazing that we're having these conversations so openly and honestly, it helps you feel empowered to say, you know what, like my friend Maureen is taking hormone therapy and it's really been a game changer for her. Can we talk about whether or not this is right for me? I'm open to it, you know, talk me through the research. There's a lot of claims that get thrown around that. Frankly, when I touch into the research, I'm like, huh, like maybe it helps, it's gonna help with heart health. But actually a lot of preventive cardiologists are like, we don't have the evidence. So like right now we have certain indications for hormone therapy and like, let's talk about those from an evidence-based place.

Jess (14:03):

So you, you mentioned the phrase words matter, which I've heard you say a lot in the course of writing this book. And early in the process of your research you learned something gross and shocking, which is that a lot of our body parts are named after old white men. And I want you to just take it from there.

Meghan Rabbitt (14:22):

Yes. You know, I think what really kept me so, um, happy in the writing cave with this massive project of writing a 700 page book on women's health is the fact that I was shocked left and right. Like every time I talked to a new crop of researchers and women's health experts, I was like, how do I not know this? And I have dedicated the last 20 years of my life focused on women's health issues. And this is revelatory to me. And so I spoke to a handful of anatomists, largely female who are on a mission to have us collectively start using anatomical terms that are what, what are called toponyms versus eponyms. So a little background on this, many of our body parts are named after the typically men who laid claim to them. So fallopian tubes is a prime example of this. We call them the fallopian tubes because hundreds of years ago, this man Georgio Fallopio claimed to have found them,

Jess (15:23):

You can't make this up.

Meghan Rabbitt (15:24):

You cannot make it up. And so they became the fallopian tubes. And while, sure, you can still call them the fallopian tubes, this group of anatomists are saying actually they're uterine tubes. The eponine is fallopian tube because it's named after the man and the topen is uterine tube because it's, it, it's like where they're placed in the body, these are tubes that come from the uterus, right? And so I was really blown away by that. There's anatomist I interviewed, um, she's based in Australia and she's written papers on this and, and she says we have to get away from eponyms because they're basically based on the pale male and stale <laugh> people...

Jess (16:02):

That's good.

Meghan Rabbitt (16:02):

- who, who basically like an explorer coming through our body laying claim to different parts. And so yeah, I call them my uterine tubes now. And I think, you know, another thing that I'm just being reminded of is, um, and a big aha is we as women collectively and we teach our young boys and girls that down there is for girls, it's a vagina. It's actually not a vagina, what we're referring to, it's your vulva, right? The vagina is a canal that goes from your vulva up into your, the interior of your body. It's an internal structure. And so let's call it the vulva because that's what it is.

Maureen (16:44):

Let's! <Laugh>,

Jess (16:44):

Let's, let's call forever from here on out we will be calling it the vulva.

Maureen (16:50):

It is just so funny though, the way that the language you're putting it in really does make it feel like Jess said in the beginning of this conversation, like your bestie, like, even though it's so technical and there's so much science to it, the way that you present it in the book really felt like I was having like a session with my girls. Like I was like going through those pages like, oh my God, can you believe it? Oh my God, like there was so many, can you believe it? She what moments in this book? But I also felt really not scared of it and not like it was over my head. So I just think it is long overdue, this tome that you've put together and I can't wait to get more into it. And like you said, I feel like it's something everyone should read, not just women, but men. So what are you hoping that men will learn as you got into this journey along the way?

Meghan Rabbitt (17:37):

I think it became clear that if, if men would not necessarily, you know, this isn't a book that you're gonna sit down and cozy up with, with a cup of tea or hand to your husband and say, here, read this and then let's talk. It's 700 pages <laugh>. However, what my hope is is that to get personal, I have dense breasts, like a lot of women, I have very dense breast tissue. Um, and most of the time when I get a mammogram, I have to have a follow-up sonogram because they find like they suspect assist or they see something that needs further follow up. And it freaks me out every time, even though I'm a health journalist, it's really terrifying. And so after my husband read the breast health chapter, he said to me, you know, I just feel like I have more of information that that will help me, that you help support you when you're going through these follow up tests or, um, things like that. So I think that's my hope is that men, you know, if a woman has this on her bookshelf, she'll be able to say, gosh, like my sister was just diagnosed with an autoimmune disease and I really wanna talk to you about it. Like, can you read this section of this book or this chapter on immune health and women so that we can talk from a place that's gonna help support our loved ones, support each other, et cetera.

Jess (18:50):

You actually said something to me the other day that I tried out over the weekend you said that we should start working on modeling consent with our children and especially our boys. And so I went up to my 14-year-old on Friday and I said, Hey bud, can I have a hug? And he was like, I said, Meghan Rabbitt said, I had to say it like that. How did, how did I do <laugh>? And he was like, oh, in that case, bring it in Mom <laugh>.

Jess (19:17):

But I love this and I have thought so much about modeling consent because I just sent my first born off to college and I want him to understand consent in the deepest part of his heart and his body. And I think that's another thing that maybe through the process of, of this book you were thinking about or tackling.

Meghan Rabbitt (19:41):

Yeah, that was, um, in the puberty chapter, which I'm really proud of because I think it can be really tempting to think like, oh, I know what I have to know about puberty because I went through it myself. And puberty has changed a lot since we went through it. And I think the more we can educate ourselves about what it's like now, the better we can support our young ones through it. And that was a big thing. You know, we talk a lot about consent, but this puberty expert said, look, model it in a way where you, with your, your partner, you might say, you might have a conversation before and just be like, look, I'm gonna be like pretty over the top and ask if I can kiss you or ask if I can hug you. Just so that in front of our little ones like that becomes sort of a norm. And yeah, I I thought that was a, a cool tip that I try to do myself in front of my nieces who definitely, like, they, they do the one eyebrow raise thing, like this is a little strange <laugh>, but I think, I think it's those lessons that kind of seep in over time. It becomes this new way of being that's helpful.

Jess (20:38):

Yeah.

Maureen (20:39):

I love that. And one of the first things you say in the puberty chapter is that women and men are more alike than you think. And I was like, huh. And then when I read it and I was looking at it, I was like, God, if we could instill that at a younger age and have us all know that we're literally all on this together, we know that, but we forget it and we think we're separate from each other, you know, us against them or it's a women's issue or a men's issue. But biologically, when you look at it, the development of a baby from the get go, there's very few things that are a little different.

Jess (21:15):

But, Maureen, that's how they teach it. They, I know in whatever it is, fourth to fifth grade, they bring the women, the girls in here to learn with the gym teacher and the boys go in there and that's how they, they tell it.

Maureen (21:25):

That's what I'm saying.

Jess (21:26):

Yeah, no, I'm agreeing.

Maureen (21:27):

Like it's crazy. It's crazy. And in my case, they didn't teach us anything. They brought the girls in one room and gave us a brown bag with a maxi pad in it. <laugh>. And we, I'm serious. This is, this was my like, honest education and we just, I think you know this story, Meghan, you're gonna about to die. And this is, so TMI, my husband's gonna kill me, but when I got pregnant, I still thought a man and a woman had to have an orgasm at the same time to get pregnant. <laugh>. I thought that had to happen. Oh wow. Almost 30 years old. And that's how I thought you got pregnant.

Meghan Rabbitt (22:00):

Well, I'll, I'll tell you a funny story as well as a fellow I Catholic girl, um, who got the birds and the bees talk, that was, um, interesting. I thought there was this like magnetic force that if you were naked near a man, it was like shoop and like it was just, uh, suddenly a penis was inside of you <laugh>.

Maureen (22:21):

Yep. Just as wrong.

Meghan Rabbitt (22:23):

So I love that because like, that's the thing, it's like, so this book is dedicated to my nieces and you know, I wrote the puberty chapter as a love letter to my sister, really, who's helping her young girls navigate this process, which has changed so much since my sister and I went through it. And a lot of the puberty experts did say, look, even if you have boys, you know, my sister has girls. But even if you have boys, don't you wanna raise the boy who understands what, what his peers are going through? And so that he's the one on the playground who tosses the sweatshirt to, to the girl who's like, who just started bleeding or who just understands what's going on. You know? Similarly, don't you want your girls to know that? Like if the a boy like pops a in class, like, don't laugh, you know, like, it, it happens. Yeah. Mm-hmm <affirmative>.

Jess (23:11):

During your interviews, first of all, you, your experts are all women, is that right?

Meghan Rabbitt (23:15):

Correct. So I, I felt really passionate about that,

Jess (23:19):

Which I think is so important.

Maureen (23:21):

Super cool.

Meghan Rabbitt (23:22):

More than 130 you'll find, uh, their voices and their expertise throughout the book.

Jess (23:27):

So these are some of the foremost experts in the world in their fields. What were some of the most hopeful, and I know we already kind of touched on menopause being so it's so awesome that it's having this like very open, honest moment, but what were some of the parts that maybe had you more concerned or freaked you out out a little bit about where we are right now with that particular issue?

Meghan Rabbitt (23:49):

You know, no real freak out, but I think a theme throughout reporting this book is we are still behind. We have made progress, thank God. We are starting to study women, we are starting to understand that women are not small men. <laugh>, we are not just like our symptoms aren't abnormal to the male norm, like we are, we're finally talking about that across the board. And that said, there is still not as many research dollars going into women's health issues. And as such, we are way behind on conditions that disproportionately impact women. So autoimmune disease is a huge one. Women are, we, we disproportionately suffer from autoimmunity and we don't actually know why conditions like endometriosis. We should be so much further ahead in our understanding of why it happens in treatments for it and diagnostic tools, and we are just not there. And so what that means is that so many women who have been suffering for years, you know, their doctors genuinely wish they could answer why this is happening to you. And they can't, not, not for want of, of not wanting to, but because we haven't collectively tried to get the answer, you know? And so that left me really, um, just like truly bummed out. Um, and, and it's just like we're going to, we're gonna need more, more time and, and more of us talking about it, demanding answers and becoming our own best advocates. And then if we feel inspired writing to your representatives saying that these topics matter to me, and when are you gonna put more focus on them?

Maureen (25:18):

Yeah. You mentioned being your own advocate. Um, so this was a big journey for you, this book being your first book, and then it got you to a point where you made a health decision for yourself. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Meghan Rabbitt (25:32):

Yeah, I am so glad you asked because I feel like a really big open book about my own health, um, journey, coming to the decision to have a hysterectomy, which is a really common surgery among women.

Maureen (25:46):

It sounds like such a big scary thing, you know, like,

Meghan Rabbitt (25:49):

Yeah, I mean, and I think as women we identify with our wos, it's like what makes us women, right? It's like, and even if it's not a womb, like I don't have children, so I've never carried a baby, but it's like the seat of creativity. And, and so I ignored pretty bad symptoms for many, many years despite being a health journalist, despite thinking like, Hmm, they probably shouldn't be bleeding this much. But then my hair started shedding, I was very anemic because of the heavy bleeding. And I finally brought it up to my gynecologist and said, you know, I feel like something's going on, like my, is this just menopause? Like, do we need to have that conversation? And she felt a few but lumps basically. I was like, I'm gonna, let's get in a vaginal ultrasound. And sure enough, my uterus was filled with fibroids.

Meghan Rabbitt (26:38):

Pretty much every type you can have, every place, they can be too many to count actually. Wow. And that was what was causing my symptoms. And still, I mean, I cried. I was like, gosh, like I, you sort of feel like your body has failed you, you know, it's interesting when you're Yeah.

Maureen (26:52):

It's like a betrayal.

New Speaker (26:53):

Yeah. I think anyone who's dealt with any kind of health condition is just like, what the heck body? Like you're, it's a betrayal. It's a great way to put it. And, and then I think what happens is we just like double down and say like, I can power through, you know, as women we get really, really good at, you know, buck up buttercup, you know.

Jess (27:13):

Putting on our big girl pants.

Meghan Rabbitt (27:15):

So true. Yeah. Put on your big girl pants, don't complain. Don't be a whiny heini and just keep going. And yeah. And, and finally I saw a few different doctors and frankly reported did the reporting on this book and realized, I I don't think I should try to muscle my way through this until, you know, to get through menopause. At which point fibroids tend to, you know, shrink. Um, because, because estrogen goes down. And so I did make the decision at the very, it was, it was sort of poetic actually at the very end of three years of working on this book. I scheduled the surgery and I had a hysterectomy and, um, wow. Yeah. And it was the right decision for me. And I, I needed to go through the process of understanding all the, all the factors that go into making that decision so that I felt confident in my decision to do it, you know, to, to go through with it. And I think that's my big, yeah, that's, that that really is what, where health advocacy starts, right? Like it's, it's advocating to yourself first. It's like, okay, what information do I need? How can I educate myself so that I feel like I'm making the right decision? And then let me gut check that with the, the experts, you know,

Jess (28:18):

I count myself among the lucky ones who gotta see a picture of that uterus after your <laugh> <laugh>.

Maureen (28:24):

Wow.

Meghan Rabbitt (28:25):

Okay. Yes. I do have to admit that. Um, I was very, I, I mean, like I said, like I really wanna a sweatshirt that says, ask me about my hysterectomy <laugh>, because I would really love to normalize this. So, um, because it's laparoscopic. There was a little camera Yeah. Right above my belly button. And so he, the, my surgeon gotta take a look at all of my internal organs. Like when I woke up from surgery, I was like already asking him all these like, medical questions. I was like, tell me all the things, show me all the things. And our post-op appointment, he spent like, I'd say an hour going through all, like, this is your liver, this is your, you know, well all the things. But I did send Jess a picture of my lumpy uterus, <laugh>, and I'm sorry, Jess <laugh>, sorry, not sorry. It's,

Jess (29:07):

It's pre Megan's uterus and post Megan's uterus in my life. That's the dividing line.

Meghan Rabbitt (29:11):

Yeah. As, as a woman, you sort of look at this thing and you're like, gosh, that's what was causing all these issues. Like good riddance, man. You know, and I have done a lot of work since in terms of, I think for anyone listening or who has gone through something similar, it hysterectomy in particular can be really tricky in, in that like, gosh, I don't have my womb. Like, where, but where is that seed of power? Like, does it make me any less a woman? And I just, no, I I think there's, there's a lot of, you know, like there's a lot of energy in there that you, you still have that space in you, you know. And also I have interviewed actually a couple capital health doctors who have, were, were so interesting and funny about like, patients will ask them, so are my organs all just like floating around in there? Like, your uterus is actually fairly small. Everything just go, kind of settles in, you know? But I think that's another reason why there's the anatomy chapter in my book so that you can understand like, okay, so I'm having this hysterectomy, these are the body parts my doctor is talking about removing, like, let me acquaint myself with where they are in the body and what they look like so that we just have a little more agency to say, okay, I know what you're talking about now.

Jess (30:18):

You know, a part of this that we haven't talked about yet, and a part that's sort of a another metaphor for life and you producing this book is the mental health part and just the how you navigated such a huge undertaking and stayed within yourself and found time for yourself and managed all the feelings and emotions you were having. Like, I think it's worth mentioning, you know, how you did that?

Meghan Rabbitt (30:44):

Did I though Jess? I mean, <laugh>, <laugh> Jess is one of my best friends. And so I have, I called her like, uh, throughout this process in like a puddle, you know, in just an absolute, like, I was on the struggle bus at a number of times, and I think it's what happens when you do something you really care about, you know, when I was trying to like shepherd this book through the process and I was the one creating it at the same time, and I was just trying to, you know, really held myself to such a high standard to make sure I was bringing women evidence-based information that was fact checked and, and rigorously reported. And so that was a lot of pressure. And it's interesting, there is a chapter in the book on mental health, that emotional health, and there's a, a physician I interviewed who talks a lot about anxiety and actually how to harness your anxiety to help you remember that you're feeling anxious probably because you really care about what you're anxious about. And I thought that was such a cool reframe that I did try to remind myself throughout this process was, I'm anxious, I'm stressed because I care about this thing, and what a gift to be able to be focused on, on work that I care about so deeply.

Maureen (31:55):

Oh my God, I love that. I think that really like helps put anxiety in a new perspective because like, even the, the things that we get just in our heads about on the day to day, it's because you care about it, you know? And when you feel your heart rate increasing and you start to feel a little like out of control and worried, that's usually because you're invested in something. And so I think it really shows in every page of this book that you cared about it. And I really think, I love that you told your story about your hysterectomy and that, you know, you're walking the walk, like you, you wrote it, you're encouraging us, and I think that you're really hit the nail on the head when you're helping us to love living in our bodies. And it's like a, it's a big undertaking, you know, we just take for granted this magnificent thing that we have to deal with and we don't know all the parts and it's complicated. But I really think that every page of this book, I learned something and I feel like it is empowering. So thank you for writing it.

Meghan Rabbitt (32:52):

Well, thanks. And I feel like you're right in that it is hard. Like we're in these bodies, which are miraculous, and oftentimes they break down, right? They don't, they don't show us the, the same love we always show it. And frankly, we don't always show our bodies so much love because we, we take them for granted. And I think it is such a practice, we tend to always be like, producing, you know, it's like, what can I get done? Where, what, how much can I fit in? Who can I, like, I have to be a great friend, a great partner, a great, um, parent, you know, and it's just sort of like, oh my gosh, there's so much out going out of us all the time that, like, for me anyway, I need to make it a practice to actually close my eyes, take a deep breath and climb into my body, which sounds crazy. And it actually made my therapist laugh out loud at me, and which I was like, Hmm, why are you laughing so hard? <laugh>, but like, to be embodied, we have to like, like climb in there and connect. And it's certainly crucial when it comes to listening to symptoms that may come up and, and, um, then talking about them to, in a way that will get the care that we need and deserve.

Jess (34:01):

I know that Maureen's gonna have a question to close us out, but I have to mention or have you touch on the cow clitoris. What's up with it? <laugh>

Maureen (34:11):

<laugh>.

Meghan Rabbitt (34:12):

Okay. So again, in, in the anatomy chapter, but also in the chapter on sexual health. So how's this for a shocker? Up until very recently, like within years, our research on the clitoris, the only organ in any human with the soul purpose of pleasure, um, it's all been based on a, on cows <laugh>. We thought we knew what the female clitoris was based on dissection in cows <laugh>. And so this amazing physician, Dr. Maria Yo Loko and, uh, a research partner of hers said, no, no, like we need to dissect a female clitoris. And found out that there are double the amount of nerve endings we originally thought. Um, and, and also like, yeah, that, that's a big part of the sexual health chapter because we need to get to know our clitoris, uh, a lot more and with a lot more, uh, <laugh> accuracy. So yeah, the, the cow clitoris. Jess, thanks. Thanks for that, <Laugh> bringing that up.

Maureen (35:11):

There's so many good parts, so many good parts, everybody including the cow clitoris. Yes. Um, but Meg, we do like to ask everyone that we talk to, and I'm sure you've got a lot of good advice along the way, but is there anything that sticks with you, something that someone told you maybe in the process of writing this book or maybe just in your life as a journalist that you can share with our audience that keeps you going? Maybe it's a mantra, a motto, or just a piece of advice?

Meghan Rabbitt (35:37):

It's something I've just recently started to learn, but I think it relates to this process of writing the book, but also just like what I've learned, um, at now at 46 is the importance for, for us, especially as women, to be gentle with ourselves. You know, like we, we wanna do all the things. I want this book to change lives and to, to really make an impact. And like I just, I, at some, at some point, you need to do what you can and then say, okay, I did what I can and now I'm, I'm I'm human and I'm, I'm gonna be gentle with myself. Uh, a little known fact about me, in addition to me being on the Rat Task force, uh, starting my career <laugh>, is that throughout my childhood I did very competitive Irish step dancing. So my mom was born in Ireland, got us into Irish dancing, and my sister and I, I mean, we, we traveled to Ireland like eight times to compete in the world championships.

Maureen (36:28):

Wow.

Meghan Rabbitt (36:29):

And so it was really, um, intense as anyone who, who does any kind of sport or, um, anything really knows, you practice so hard. And then you have these competitions and it's, they're big. And with Irish dancing, it's a little bit like ice skating in that there's three judges in front of you and there's only so much you can control. And my dad, he would often say to me after I got off the dance floor, he's like, you left it all on the dance floor. You did what you could and now it's outta your hands. And, and I think certainly with this book, I left it all on the dance floor. I, I did everything I could to, to produce the best thing possible for sure, for all of us. It's like, you, you can do what you can do. And then it's sort of outta my hands now, you know? And I think there's a lot of power and beauty in that.

Jess (37:12):

Pencils down.

Meghan Rabbitt (37:13):

Pencils down.

Maureen (37:15):

Well, Meg, I think you definitely left it all on the dance floor for us, and I hope that everyone picks up a copy of the new book and I just can't wait to see what you do next. But thank you so much for being with us today.

Meghan Rabbitt (37:26):

Thank you guys for what you do. We need to do more of this, gather women and have these important conversations because they're so important and feel, um, empowering. You know, not to use that word too much, but it feels empower--, I feel livened up from this conversation. So that's a good thing <laugh>.

Maureen (37:43):

Let's do it. <laugh>.

Meghan Rabbitt (37:45):

Thanks guys.

Jess (37:46):

Thanks.

Jess (37:48):

I loved that. I loved everything about that. And I'm reminded more now than ever in my life. Everyone needs a Meghan Rabbitt.

Maureen (37:55):

Definitely. Especially little Catholic school girls like me. Everyone should pick up a copy of this book. And I love that Meg walked the walk, you know, she got real, she talked to us about her hysterectomy, and it reminded me of a quote that Oprah Winfrey said, "Turn your wounds into wisdom". And I think that Meg did that with this book, and it's gonna empower me to do the same thing. And we can keep saying that word. We can't say it enough when it comes to women.

Jess (38:19):

Yes. We're gonna -- we are going to keep saying that word. Empower, empower, empower, <laugh>. The other takeaway is that if Maria Shriver tells you to do something, you show up and you do it. So go Maria, go Empowerment, and go Megan Rabbit.

New Speaker (38:33):

She What comes to you from Real Woman Magazine, a product of Capital Health. This episode was produced by Leigh Iacobucci, with music by Epidemic Sound.

Maureen (38:43):

Please, please leave us a rating and review. We want the show to be so great, and we need you to help us do that. So follow, subscribe, and next time, bring your friends too. Until then, I'm Maureen Petrosky. And

Jess (38:55):

I'm Jess Downey.