Don't Underestimate Her: Carla Hall

From Top Chef to one-woman-shows and Enneagrams, Carla Hall splashes down into this She What? episode with zero ego and maximum joy. She dishes on the importance of knowing yourself, setting boundaries, and how to keep killing it in your 60s. Get ready to laugh, rethink your life path and feel genuinely inspired.

Discover Carla's website and her instagram. 

For more, visit She What? on Instagram.

Brought to you by Capital Health

Credits:

Producer and Host: Jess Downey

Producer and Host: Maureen Petrosky

Producer and Editor: Leigh Iacobucci

Artwork: Peter Yates Design

Transcript

Carla Hall (00:02):

I don't want to be underestimated. I want you to think that I'm a threat.

Jess (00:15):

I am Jess Downey. You might know me as Editor-in-Chief of Real Woman and Thriving Magazines for Capital Health. And

Maureen (00:21):

I'm Maureen Petrosky. You might have seen me on the Today Show or CBS mornings as an entertaining expert or know some of my books like Wine Club and Zero Proof Drinks.

Jess (00:30):

And we're two friends who created She What?

Maureen (00:33):

<laugh> a podcast that digs into the personal and often surprising stories of women who inspire us

Jess (00:40):

And they get real about the wins, the fails, and everything in between.

Maureen (00:45):

Here we invite her to tell the whole story, the pain she endured, the triumph she celebrated, the friends she made along the way, and maybe even how she reinvented herself.

Jess (00:56):

These are the kinds of stories that make us think. They make us laugh. They keep us going.

Maureen (01:01):

Need a dose of inspiration. It's here. Need a fresh perspective. We got that too. Hi Jess.

Jess (01:15):

Hi Maureen.

Maureen (01:16):

Every once in a while we get a guest who is exactly as advertised.

Jess (01:20):

Today's guest is a straight up celebrity, but she just shows up with no ego, ready to have fun and connect with you.

Maureen (01:27):

And she does everything. I mean, you might know Carla Hall from season five of Top Chef, but since then she's hosted a million food shows, talk shows, podcasts, written cookbooks, you name it.

Jess (01:37):

And she saved my Thanksgiving by teaching me how to properly make mashed potatoes in a potato ricer. Who knew? Carla Hall is such a breath of fresh air.

Maureen (01:47):

I think you laughed more in this episode than any other we've ever done.

Jess (01:51):

We definitely had a lot of fun. We talked a ton about food, but we also got into everything tv, listening to your gut, holding people accountable and killing it in your sixties.

Maureen (02:02):

I mean, this woman is about to crank out a one woman show seriously. And she's able to do all of this because she really knows herself on a deep level.

Jess (02:10):

Well, she definitely lives by those Enneagrams. Yeah, the two of you might have gone to culinary school, but Carla and I are both Enneagram Type Sevens, <laugh> <laugh>.

Maureen (02:21):

There are so many nuggets of good advice wrapped up in this interview. One of my favorites was "say yes and adventure follows".

Jess (02:28):

Well, this episode was definitely adventurous. I mean, you didn't even have a voice.

Maureen (02:32):

I know. Apologies in advance for the squeakiness, but I was not missing this one and you shouldn't either. So stick around.

Jess (02:43):

Carla Hall. Welcome to She What?

Carla Hall (02:47):

She What? Okay. I've been saying that all morning, first of all, <laugh>.

Jess (02:51):

I love it.

Maureen (02:52):

I was so excited about this interview that of course the universe laughed at me and made it so I woke up without a voice.

Carla Hall (02:59):

No, no, no!

Jess (03:00):

Come on, universe, let's go. But I have to tell you too, that when I was doing a little research, I found out that Carla, you and Maureen have this weird thing in common. You both graduated from amazing universities. Maureen went to Villanova and Carla, you went to Howard and you quickly both figured out like, uh, accounting is so not for me. And eventually found your way to culinary school. Yes, she was. You guys are career twins minus the modeling in Paris. Yeah.

Maureen (03:31):

<laugh>. Yes. Honestly.

Carla Hall (03:33):

You know, I feel like there is nothing like getting off a path that you know doesn't work, but everybody's telling you that that's the path that you should be on and then finding yourself on a completely different path.

Maureen (03:46):

Yes, that is the truth. And I remember when I went back to my first, uh, reunion at Villanova and everyone was like, you're doing what? She What? And I was saying, I am making a career out of all that drinking we did in college. I'm gonna write about it <laugh>. And so I shifted my career into food and drink just like you did. 'cause it fed my soul. And I feel like you totally get that.

Carla Hall (04:11):

I totally get it. And I admittedly though I was running away from the thing that I knew I didn't want and I didn't know what I eventually wanted. And I was willing to explore that. I just didn't wanna be 40 and hate my job. But it took me a, it took me a while to figure it out. Took

Maureen (04:27):

Me like five minutes. I was sitting at a desk at a pharmaceutical company. I got there at nine. I looked at the clock, it was 9:10 <laugh>. And I was like, how am I gonna do this every day of my life? Like, how am I gonna sit here for eight hours? I thought I wanted to wear a cute outfit and carry a briefcase, and I couldn't wait to get out of there. So I went back to my first job, which was at a bakery and said, can I come back to work here now? My parents were not thrilled after, you know, spending four years at university.

Carla Hall (04:59):

Yeah, that sounds like, uh, me, at my first spin class, I was like working out and they were like, okay, this is a warmup. I'm like, what the warlock,

Jess (05:10):

That's how you're supposed to feel <laugh>. You're not supposed to like it.

Carla Hall (05:14):

After the warm up?

Jess (05:15):

Woman. You have your hands in everything. Chase and flavor, chewed up pod, producing a magazine, judging food competition, writing a book, children's books. But do you ever sleep and or say no?

Carla Hall (05:28):

No. I do. I do. I mind you, my mantra is say yes, adventure follows then growth. But I'm very intentional with my yeses now. I just don't wanna be resentful after saying yes. So if someone asks me to do something and it really is a no, I check in with my dad. I'm like, no, do I other, do you wanna think about it? Like, no, I know, I know it's no, and I'm a procrastinator, so I'm giving you the respect of telling you No. Like right away <laugh>, you know, so I, I am a seven. Do you know Enneagram? Yes. So I'm a seven. I'm the adventurer. So it may give you a little insight into why I am doing so many things. For me, it's like, oh, that was so 10 minutes ago. <laugh>, I'm, I have onto the next thing.

Jess (06:17):

Okay. And onto the next thing. You're gonna be doing a freaking one woman show this spring <laugh>. Can we just talk about that?

Maureen (06:23):

She what?

Carla Hall (06:24):

<laugh>? Yeah. The name is Carla Hall: Please underestimate me.

New Speaker (06:31):

Yes, Yes. <laugh>. That is the best.

Maureen (06:34):

So good.

Carla Hall (06:36):

So my first love was theater. It's kind of like when you were saying you went back to the bakery. Right. And I didn't get into Boston University, and so I loved my accounting teacher. So I did accounting, I did all the things that they told me to do. It's high school, college, et cetera, et cetera. And I guess my life is a little bit like theater. Even teaching cooking classes, being on the two, you know, being okay with being the weird one in the group, you know, because you're taught that at Theater Camp <laugh>. But when I was turning 60, like at 55 and I'm building a runway to 60, I said, I really want to do a variety show a one woman show, something like that. This at 12, I wanted to be the black Carol Burnett.

Maureen (07:20):

I love it. <laugh>.

Jess (07:22):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>. I could see. Yeah,

Carla Hall (07:24):

100%. You know, Dick Van Dyke. All of these physical comedians, you know.

Maureen (07:31):

Are you gonna start your show coming out with a little broom across the stage? Like Carol Burnett ?

Carla Hall (07:36):

It will work out. But no, I have to start out being Carla. And then we're telling you about the story about me wanting to be Carol Burnett. Yeah.

Jess (07:44):

So what is the show like? Have you already written it? 

Carla Hall (07:46):

It is. It’s written and I'm performing it at the Olney Theater in Maryland, which is outside of DC. 

mm-hmm <affirmative>. 

And it's June 3rd through July 12th of next year. And I'm writing it with Laurie Kay and Leslie Thomas. Oh. And this is just when I thought it was gonna be just D Yets and I just kept putting it out there. And when I talk about building a runway, I was like, okay, what do I need? I told my agent, I wanna do more theater or acting. Consider me for cameo roles for voiceovers. I got an acting coach. I mean, I literally was diving in, I was going to one person shows like solo shows. When I say I'm building a runway where I'm building the consciousness around the thing that I want to do, not just saying, Hey, tell me how I can do a one woman show when I know consciously I'm not ready for that.

Carla Hall (08:37):

So how do I do that? And so over the years, and I mentioned it in an article on the New York Times, and then it said, I said, yeah, I wanna do a one woman show. And then the only theater reached out and said, we have this program, would you consider doing a workshop? And so the three of us, uh, myself and my writers, we did a one week workshop last year. And at the end they bring in an audience and two days later they're like, Hey, would you consider being a part of our 20, 25, 26 season? I'm like, yes, <laugh>. That's when you say yes. But you don't, you don't think about it too much because you're like, oh my god, what she, what

Jess (09:13):

<laugh>

Carla Hall (09:14):

So the director is Lillian Brown. She lives in Chicago. She has amazing portfolio of work. She's a workhorse. And we jived immediately and we go into rehearsals in May.

Jess (09:26):

So you put it out into the universe and the universe was like, yes, let's do it. I love

Carla Hall (09:31):

That. Yes. Yes.

Maureen (09:33):

But she also is a hustler. I mean, Carla, you work hard at everything that you do. I read that you worked every day for five years before culinary school. Yes.

Carla Hall (09:42):

Yes. Was

Maureen (09:42):

That survival or just the fire in your belly? Are you just made up this way?

Carla Hall (09:47):

I think it was a little bit of both. It was a little bit of survival. It was proving to my mother that I could do this thing when I fell into food and I didn't know where it was gonna go. And I had this lunch delivery service and I just kept going. And I think I was afraid of somebody telling me, you can't do it. You know? So I just created this thing and I kept going and I was like, well, I still like this. Five years of working every day, gave the experience and now I needed to go to culinary school to get the theory. Yeah. And then I went to culinary school at 30. And right now it feels really young. 'cause I'm 61 now. I'm like, wow. 30. I was a baby. But I felt <laugh>, I felt, but much older

Jess (10:26):

At that time. From my view, it felt like a pretty narrow path. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. You know, you probably had to be a dude, probably a French white dude. You, you know. Did you look at that as daunting? Because if you did, it definitely didn't show.

Carla Hall (10:39):

You know, I was an accountant and then, you know, I did some hard things already and I was pretty much in male dominated careers. So after culinary school, when I was looking for my internship, I remember talking to the chefs like, Hey, you know, are you a screamer? And, and I would say, I don't mean personally like

Maureen (10:58):

You asked them that

Carla Hall (10:59):

<laugh>. I did. I did.

Maureen (11:01):

I love this.

Carla Hall (11:03):

Are you scream at people? Because I knew that is not the way to get the best out of me. And I've been hearing all of these stories. I was looking for a place where I could thrive and where I could work where I needed to be under a chef who would help me get better, not put me on defensive. Yeah. Right. 

Maureen (11:20):

I feel like I understand that screaming so much because it's part and parcel of kitchens and people expected of chefs. But when I went for my extern interview, I interviewed at Martha Stewart Living and the Food Network on the same day. Oh wow. And the screaming is what made me choose the food network. And that's why I went to in, I always thought I was gonna go work at Martha Stewart living mm-hmm <affirmative>. And re mad props to Martha. I love her, but the work environment wasn't for me. Right. But I think that really takes a level of maturity to know that and to really be in touch with yourself, to be confident enough to, to walk away from something that you might think is the best thing for you when you gotta listen to your gut and know that it's not, and I completely understand that. I think almost anytime you change your career, you should be looking to learn always. And yes, that was very smart of you to do at that age.

Carla Hall (12:15):

I think it also, looking at your previous jobs, I, I understand it more now than I did then. Like everything is information. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. You know, someone just told me, you know, the things that make you tick and the things that tick you off are only there to show you what your values are. Right. I mean, that's a good one. I guess it's two sides of a coin, right?

Jess (12:35):

Yeah. Yep. I was gonna say that. I watched, I was obsessed with Top Chef and I watched you on season five, and I remember after the season was over, they did some kind of like, you know, remember the season recap and they showcased your meditation, yoga, your Spirit, and, and they labeled you kooky Carla. Yeah. And that really gnawed at me. But it didn't, again, didn't seem to bother you, but did it?

Carla Hall (13:01):

I mean, I was in theater is, you're not called weird at least two times. You're like, what's up <laugh>?

Jess (13:06):

What? Not doing my job.

Carla Hall (13:08):

Why hasn't anyone, anyone calling me weird? Okay. Come on, because no, I was the quirky kid growing up. I think people tend to call people kooky when they don't understand something. Uh, and I think spiritually I was so grounded in that space. I was also older, so I was 44. So I was looking at these younger people lose their minds. I felt like this experience will either break them or they will find themselves. Mm. And I, that's how I'm looking at them. So when people are calling me Kooky Carl, also, the more I know about reality tv, they had to give me a name. They had to build this

Jess (13:48):

Character. Yeah.

Carla Hall (13:49):

This character. Right. I don't think I was supposed to last, I mean, I was 44, I was a caterer, and I'm going up against these chefs who work in these amazing pedigreed restaurants. Right? Right. But in the end, not about how well you can cook, it's how well you can create in this environment. You know, that's the thing.

Jess (14:10):

Did you know that from Jump? Did you right away? You

Carla Hall (14:13):

No, I didn't. I mean, and I had my insecurities about it. But the thing is, you know, those five years before culinary school when I was working every day, I was like, dude, I know I'm a MacGyver. I know I didn't have money for a mixer and I had to figure out what I was gonna do. I know that my kitchen looked like the basement kitchen of a next level of chef. I know that I could do some stuff. You know what I'm saying?

Jess (14:34):

Yeah. Right.

Maureen (14:35):

You know, it, I

Carla Hall (14:36):

Feel like even today, if I lost everything, I would create a job.

Jess (14:41):

Totally.

Maureen (14:43):

Yes.

Jess (14:43):

We say that all the time. Yeah.

Maureen (14:45):

We do it over and over, we reinvent ourselves.

Jess (14:47):

And it, it does give you a quiet confidence that yeah, you'll just, you're gonna weather whatever storm you'll figure it out. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And if the worst happens, you'll still poke your head up. Oh,

Carla Hall (14:57):

I do wanna say this. I am not saying that I walked in and I had that confidence. I had confidence in myself. However, I am a words of affirmation person. When people say things about me, certain things do go to my core. I wanted to be affirmed that I was a good chef. I Right. I wanted at least one person to say, wow, you're great. And I feel like in that experience, both in season five and season eight, all stars PI was underestimated. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. So in a way, I was kind of like the Spook who sat by the door, you know that book, you know, um, <laugh>. Yes. So I'm able to, they're gonna underestimate me, so I'm able to do things, but there's a, there's a double-edged sword to that. I'm like, and as long as the underestimated, I want you to think that I'm a threat, but I was underestimated.

Carla Hall (15:48):

So that allowed me to sort of ease into my wins once I got out of the way. And I, and I'm saying that because on season five, I remember it was restaurant wars and I messed up my food. Uh, the oven was off the, uh, I had grabbed the wrong extract from my chocolate fondant cake. And it was between me going home and erotica. And I remember my heart like beating out of my chest and I am looking at tab. I'm like, oh my God, I'm just, my heart was like beating so fast. And then I asked myself like, nobody has ever died here. Right, right. I <laugh>. That was like the ultimate, I'm afraid of heights. Not yet. Not yet. Right. <laugh>, I'm afraid of heights. I'm standing on level ground. No one has ever died here. And I remember that calmed my heart down. And I remember licking directly at Patman, like, what, what? I get to go home? And she later said, I was so intimidating because I would look into her eyeballs.

Jess (16:49):

You were looking into her soul

Carla Hall (16:51):

<laugh>. Oh yeah. I was like, <laugh>. But I think I was so afraid of going home that I couldn't cook my food. And after that, once I said, wait, what is the worst thing that could happen? Then I was able to cook. I was able to relax. So I had to get out of my own way, you know? Yeah,

Jess (17:11):

Yeah, yeah.

Maureen (17:12):

Well you talked about doing yoga and being so grounded. Do you still maintain those practices now? I know for Jess, it's a big part of her week is like her yoga and prioritizing that. Do you still do that?

Carla Hall (17:23):

I just did an incredible rest workshop a couple days ago, and my husband is a yoga teacher. He does yin and sound bathing and like sound healing and restorative. And so I go to his class as often. I don't do it on a regular basis, I'd have my own thing. But when he has these rest workshops, they always come at the right time and I'm always available. So I'm like, okay, universe, I'm going. And when I tell you it was such a great reset, it was really amazing. Now, on the strength side of things, I do strength training and cardio and things like that. But for me, yoga is the resting side, the sort of, because I do so many public facing things, it's really resetting my energy. Yeah,

Maureen (18:11):

Yeah. The restorative part.

Carla Hall (18:13):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>. We need

Maureen (18:15):

To restore your voice. I know. I'm trying. Do you see me over here with my steam and my tea? I know that being said, Carla, with all of the things that you do in the public, I'm sure there's been a time where the universe laughed at you, you know, maybe took your voice or maybe you were sick. Can you tell us a story like that?

Carla Hall (18:34):

Yeah. Or maybe I fell in front of thousands of people on stage when I'm hosting a show.

Maureen (18:38):

What? Okay.

Carla Hall (18:40):

What I mean. Okay. She what I thought, oh, hosting the James Beard Awards, and I had a couple of changes and one of my changes was going to be these plastic boots. So I'm like, how am I gonna get my sweaty leg foot into these plastic boots? Well, I have to wear it tight. So they kept saying, when you have time to put on your tights, I'm like, I don't trust that time thing. So I had on stockings are like spans for the feet. So now when I'm putting on my shoes and I'm just walking around in my pumps, my feet are smaller than they were when I didn't have on tights. So I am doing the parade of the chefs, and I am running and I'm like giving high five. There're about, there are about 20 chefs on stage. And I'm like, yeah. All of a sudden I was like, uhoh, I'm about to fall <laugh>. I literally had all these thoughts. I'm about to fall, how do I wanna fall? Engage the court, make it big <laugh>.

Carla Hall (19:39):

And so I went down and I am spinning my legs like this. And there's a chef that's trying to help me, and I'm crawling away from him because I'm like, I'm not finished. But I almost kicked him in the face. And then I get up and I say, uhoh, that means this is gonna be an amazing show. Now I'm thinking the audience was like, what the hell just happened? <laugh>. So I ran downstage and I looked at them and I'm like, y'all know, that was fine, <laugh>. And as they erupted, they released it. And when I look back at it, for me it was like a live moment. Jerry Lewis, Dick Van, Carol Burnett, Lucille Ball, you know, all these people coming in through me. And people thought that I did it on purpose. They were coming up to me later saying, the best part was when you took that ball and you were like, turn it into a thing. And that is one of my proudest moments. I mean, I think that was one of those things that could go very wrong, but it, for me, it is not about the fall. It's like what happens after the fall?

Jess (20:49):

I just heard Jennifer Lawrence interviewed and she was saying how her fall was traumatic. Like for it to be one of your proudest moments, I think just says literally everything about

Maureen (20:59):

You. It just shows your perspective. Right? It shows everything about her. Yeah. She

Carla Hall (21:04):

Was also very young. She or she was Yes, that's true. Going to accept this award.

Jess (21:08):

No, no shade on Jen. I mean,

Carla Hall (21:10):

But I get it. I think when you get older, the bucket of gets bigger.

Jess (21:16):

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. That's, that's totally

Carla Hall (21:18):

And truly you, just like Melanie says, or we don't care club, we really don't care as much. And it is freeing. But in that moment also. So for me, one of my, uh, coping mechanisms is humor. I mean, it's, it's always good. And so as the host of this show, I am there to take care of the audience. So the one thing that I didn't want was for the audience to be like, is she okay? Is she not? You know what I mean? Yeah. So I physically, I was able to do, I did not hurt myself at all. I fall a lot <laugh>. I am that clumsy person. I know how to fall. I just engaged the court talked and rolled. Right. Both like what, you know, that, that is one of my superpowers

Jess (22:02):

To be able to think in real time about calming the audience's nervous system <laugh> while you're in the mid-fall. That that's impressive. That's impressive

Maureen (22:11):

As a skillset, honestly. Totally different skillset than just being a great chef or even a

Jess (22:16):

Great entertainer. Right. Great

Maureen (22:17):

Entertainer. Yeah.

Jess (22:19):

I mean, you've done so many incredible things in the food space, but what experience or like Endeavor has really resonated the most with you over these past few decades?

Carla Hall (22:30):

I think understanding how to put together a team. I love an assessment. I love Enneagram.

Maureen (22:37):

Okay. I don't know what this is.

Carla Hall (22:39):

I have to, okay. You gotta look it up.

Maureen (22:42):

You have to. I know I have to figure out your gram. I don't, yeah. All right. Maybe revisited the E Yeah. Revisit it. I need to know, like, I should be in touch with this.

Jess (22:50):

I'm a seven also, so I, I girl, I get you. Yeah. So

Carla Hall (22:54):

What's your wing? Eight or six?

Jess (22:56):

Six.

Carla Hall (22:57):

Okay. So you're a little cautious

Jess (22:59):

A little bit. Yes. Okay. But, but big, big swings too.

Carla Hall (23:04):

Yes, yes, yes, yes. And so I think we are the idea people. And so you need somebody on your team who is the executioner? My, my assistant doesn't like when I say she's the executioner, but I mean like

Jess (23:17):

<laugh>, it sounds dark. Yes. <laugh>.

Maureen (23:19):

Yeah, it does. I'm like, what are you getting into now, Carla?

Carla Hall (23:22):

But she is the one who will think about all of my ideas and say, okay, that is, we can't do that, but this one is doable and this is how we can help make the plan. And so you need people like that. I think a lot of times we, we think we know ourselves, but we don't have the language and we're just sort of out here. If we do something that we, we know we're doing it well, we just stick with it because we, we wanna feel like we know what we're doing. But if you did an aptitude test and say you just learn how to do that and you are proficient at it, but it's not necessarily the thing that really is your path.

Jess (23:57):

Totally. Right.

Carla Hall (23:58):

I lost my husband out of it. He was freaking out attorney's working for the FDA at the office biologics for three years. I was like, dude, you're good at it. But is that really what you want to do for three years? Yeah. Now mind you, uh, he quit two weeks before the two. We got the boot at the two. So I looked at the guy, said, oh my God, hold, wait, hold on. My husband just quit his job. I'm gonna see if he can get it back. And I was like, <laugh>.

Jess (24:26):

That's wild. Wow.

Maureen (24:29):

I know. I've seen you with your husband a few times on your social media and it just seems like such a sweet, authentic relationship and that you have such a good support system to be able to do all these amazing things. These amazing things. How long have you been married?

Carla Hall (24:43):

We've been married for 20 years. Next year. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he's amazing. We met on match.com. I was on there for two weeks and I knew he was my person when he reached out. We went, we went for like a little a winky drink, you know, I don't even drink, but it was like a winky drink. I I literally have never said that before in my life. I just said it like right now, <laugh>, I don't even know what's happening.

Maureen (25:05):

I was like, I'm gonna Google it. I

Jess (25:07):

Dunno what a winky drink is. Yes. Is that a thing? I dunno. Either you

Carla Hall (25:09):

Can, you can have that winky drink.

Maureen (25:10):

Okay, I got you.

Carla Hall (25:12):

So it was supposed to be really fast. And then we ended up going for a drive. And when he touched my hand, I didn't feel like pulling away, which for me, that was huge. And so we realized that we both were at Howard at the same time for two years. And there was another little connection that we had this like sliding doors type relationship, which was crazy that we didn't find out till later. And he is amazing. He is my rock. He is so supportive. And so for me to support him in his transition was like, it meant the world to me. So when I did that rest workshop and it was his workshop with a woman named Eloise, I'm looking at him and I'm almost in tears. And I'm like, wow. Like he has left his job and he is absolutely in his space. That is so beautiful to see. Like I try to coach people to find themselves. I, I don't care if I'm meeting you on a street corner, if you tell me you don't like your job, I'm like, here, let me, let me clear my schedule. Can I talk to you right now?

Maureen (26:13):

That's me. Maybe I'm a seven. I

Jess (26:15):

Was gonna say you two definitely. Maureen's told a bunch of people to get to get It's time to get. Yeah. You

Carla Hall (26:21):

Get

Maureen (26:22):

Honestly, life is too short. Yes. And people that I meet and I see talent in them and I just like you, you see a light, you're like, you're wasting it here. You've gotta go do this. So seize the moment and it's scary. But look what how you just talked about your husband so endearingly and with such true deep belief that he was where he should be. And you weren't seeing that at the FDA. No,

Carla Hall (26:43):

No.

Jess (26:44):

<laugh>.

Carla Hall (26:45):

I just imagine a world where everyone is doing the thing that they're meant to do. I mean, whatever it is. And how we wouldn't have so much resentment and insecurity and hate speak and all of this. So right at Kegel are supporting people where they are because there's a joy that happens.

Maureen (27:02):

And when people are happy, they spread more joy. Yeah.

Jess (27:06):

We need a little more joy.

Maureen (27:07):

I said I wish I had a little more. Carla Hall and me, um, tend not to be as adventurous. I think it's more calculated adventure, I think. But you bring such fun to everything that you're doing. And I can feel that as an audience member and as a fan.

Carla Hall (27:23):

Thank you.

Maureen (27:23):

But do you have any tips for the rest of us who might be a little too type A that

Jess (27:27):

Bring the winky, the

Carla Hall (27:29):

Winky, the, the Winky <laugh>? Well, I think, uh, this is why you want to do assessments because everybody isn't a seven. Everybody doesn't have like, because my idea rate is really high, which I found out through an assessment. So I'm constantly said, oh my God, what about this? What about this? What about this? That isn't everybody's space where they are. And so when you find out what your thing is, you'll still bring that energy. It will look differently from mine that the energy is that I am comfortable standing in this space and other people can still feel it.

Jess (28:07):

Yeah.

Carla Hall (28:08):

So that's the secret sauce to figure out what your language is, who you are, so that you're not thrown off your gang when somebody comes from the left or the right. You're like, no, I know I'm meant to be here in this space.

Jess (28:21):

Yeah. Speaking of space, the food world hasn't always been the healthiest for women. Do you feel like in your time in the food world that you've witnessed the industry becoming a healthier place for female chefs?

Carla Hall (28:34):

I think so. And I'm also speaking about this from the outside because I don't work in restaurants anymore. Um, but just from speaking to friends and looking at women who are running kitchens and, you know, not just women, but you know, men who are running healthy kitchens. I do. I think that a light has been shown on this industry. It it, it, it's a transition that we all have to go through. But I think that people are looking for those healthier kitchens and by doing that it's top down, right? You look at the chef, you're like, okay, what do you like as a person? Um, do I wanna work here? And you have to hold people accountable. And so I do think it's changing. So

Maureen (29:14):

We talked about females and there's another female that we both knew who had crazy great energy and Vall. Yes. And I know that you did a nice beautiful tribute to her mm-hmm <affirmative>. And when I was in any space with her, we also had a lot of fun. And she was unapologetically herself. Yes. Just like you are. And I just maybe thought you could share with us what it was like to work with her and maybe what she meant to you.

Carla Hall (29:39):

Anne was such a great teacher. I remember when, this was probably in 2020 and I was considering signing a contract with the Food Network. And I called her out of all the people I could call, I called Anne and she sort of talked to me through it and, and said, these are the things that you should look out for. You know, these are the things that you should consider. And I really appreciated it. So when I did Worst Cooks, I did a special and then I did a full season. And when I tell you that woman is an, she was an incredible teacher, just incredible. But we were both competitive. Like we, you know, we knew we were both competitive. Oh yeah. If it's outta contest, I still wanna win. Okay. <laugh>. What I love about Ann is that she unapologetically was herself. I feel

Jess (30:34):

Like you had that in common.

Carla Hall (30:35):

Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Getting those gang ladies. She won

Jess (30:39):

<laugh>, <laugh>. Look, I'm

Maureen (30:41):

Gonna say

Carla Hall (30:41):

That as well. I'm gonna lead here saying that. I just want you to know.

Maureen (30:43):

Well, you're allowed to, you're allowed to tell everybody you know about she won. Yeah. I love that you're doing chewed up now with Michael and I mean, and Clinton

Carla Hall (30:52):

Yeah. Just the

Maureen (30:53):

Energy, energy between you and then Michael is so good. That show should have never been canceled. But fun fact, Carla, I actually auditioned for the two. You did it and Daphne and myself and two other people were the last in that final, final round. And then you got Daphne and I mean, meant to be. But boy would we have had a lot of fun. Wow. I would mean loved it. I know mean. This is so crazy.

Carla Hall (31:18):

It

Maureen (31:18):

Is crazy.

Carla Hall (31:19):

I went through the whole process right after of auditioning. Yeah. It was, it was, it was before I did All Stars. I went through the whole process of, of auditioning and they were like, okay, I don't even, I think I was ghosted. I don't think they even came back and said No. I just think they were like, <laugh> girls fade into the background. I don't know. For real. For real. I mean, they were like, you know, you know, they just

Maureen (31:39):

Like, that's crazy.

Carla Hall (31:40):

And then when there was so much pushback about ending Erica Kane's life, right? They were like, okay. I had just finished, uh, top Step All Stars and I was fan favorite. And I, they were doing another round of auditions. 'cause you all were like, for a year. Oh,

Maureen (31:58):

It was

Carla Hall (31:59):

Long. But now with Chewed Up, when I tell you the freedom though,

Maureen (32:03):

So much more fun. I feel like your walls are down. The

Carla Hall (32:06):

Freedom not having any execs, not having anybody tell you what to do. You you can't show this brand because we're selling over here and you know, with all the brands that we're working for and they're paying for the show, we're not getting paid. So Child, when I tell you you can't for us

Jess (32:21):

<laugh>,

Maureen (32:21):

You're having the best time.

Carla Hall (32:23):

We are having the best time. We've just shot, uh, 54 episodes, I remember. And it was like the 25th episode. And we're like, well, we're still here.

Maureen (32:32):

Which is insane how much content you're putting out, the amount of content you're doing for that. It just shows that it's a labor of love. But taking money out of, as a factor, it does change the game.

Carla Hall (32:45):

So with Shoot up, at the end of the day, we shoot like six episodes a day. I mean, and the culinary crew is what The backbone. They're 30 minutes. It's easy. I mean,

Jess (32:56):

Think Maureen and I would kill each other. Geez. Yeah.

Carla Hall (32:58):

I mean it, I'm gonna tell

Maureen (32:59):

You. Well, I would lose my voice. You'd be fine. <laugh>.

Carla Hall (33:02):

Well, at the end of two days, we were just saying I'm energized. And I think a big question to ask yourselves if you're in the right space, and I, and I get tired, but are you energized at the end of doing your work or whatever it is that you're calling, you're making a living and all of us, I'm talking culinary, the sound people, the production people, the talent. We have somehow been beat up by this industry. Everybody is falling in love with it again.

Maureen (33:34):

Well, I'll tell you, when I see you dancing, that makes me like happy right away. I'm like your music. I love it.

Jess (33:45):

We should try something like that. Mau. I know you dance for us,

Maureen (33:48):

But it's true. Jess, after our very first episode, when we decided to finally do this, Carla, after our first episode, I remember we were both so amped up and we're like, do we really get to do this? Yeah. Do we really get to highlight these amazing women? Um,

Jess (34:03):

This is the most just, you're just such a warm hug

Maureen (34:09):

And real. Yeah, real. That's what's so this has been so easy, Carla. I was so stressed about my voice and Jess totally calmed me down this morning and just said, this is real. This is what happens. You lost your voice. It's real. We'll get through it. And I feel like you're just so real and I hope you never change. And I don't think you will at this point. I'm

Carla Hall (34:26):

61. I'm like, ugh

Maureen (34:28):

And joy. Yeah. She's like, that's done.

Carla Hall (34:31):

And I, I just wanna thank you all for what you do for highlighting these women because like all of these different women from different walks of life and it's just kind of nice that we're doing stuff. We know stuff.

Jess (34:42):

Yeah. We know stuff. We know stuff. We do stuff. We love stuff. Yes. It's all good. It's all good. I

Maureen (34:46):

Know Carla, has there been any of those women along the way that have been part of a piece of advice to you? Or maybe something that you carry or live by each day that you can share with us?

Carla Hall (34:55):

My grandmother said it is your job to be happy not to be rich.

Jess (35:00):

Mm, granny.

Carla Hall (35:01):

And I live my yes granny. That's how I live my life. Wow.

Jess (35:04):

It's not gonna get better than that.

Maureen (35:06):

Carla Hall, thank you so much for being on. She what? We cannot wait to see what you do next.

Carla Hall (35:11):

Thank you. Thank you ladies. Thanks.

Jess (35:13):

Scarla. Oh my. I think you just found your new soulmate. Tell Michael he'd better move over because that is your new love of your life.

Maureen (35:24):

Uh, well we had so much in common, but I think besides all of the food and craft things and love of people, I think her messaging was so intertwined in that interview. Like, we can't miss that. Her granny words to live by, it's your job to be happy. It's not your job to be rich.

Jess (35:41):

That is pretty much sums up like life, right? If we don't do what Carla's Granny says, then we'll get joy out of everything that we find in life and it'll lead us toward what we're supposed to be doing.

Maureen (35:55):

And isn't that what Rich is?

Jess (35:57):

I mean, sometimes No, no. It's, it is, it's, that was the best. I'm so glad to know Carla Hall.

Maureen (36:05):

Me too.

Jess (36:07):

She what comes to you from Real Woman Magazine, a product of capital health. This episode was produced by Leigh Iacobucci, with Music by Epidemic Sound.

Maureen (36:17):

Please, please leave us a rating and review. We want the show to be so great and we need you to help us do that. So follow, subscribe, and next time bring your friends too. Until then, I'm Maureen Petrosky. 

Jess (36:29):

And I'm Jess Downey.