Spotted Gar: Should be every kids favourite animal

 This episode of 'Rarified' introduces listeners to the rare and endangered Spotted Gar, a unique fish inhabiting the shallow coastal waters of Lake Erie. Host interviews Dominique Rumble, a PhD student from the University of Toronto, who shares insights from her conservation research on the Spotted Gar. They discuss the fish's distinctive characteristics, behavior, habitat, and the main threats to their survival. Dominique also reminisces about fieldwork adventures and emphasizes the importance of wetland restoration projects. 

 

00:00 Introduction to Rarified Podcast

00:27 Meet the Spotted Gar

01:34 Understanding the Spotted Gar

04:20 Habitat and Threats

12:30 Conservation Efforts

19:56 Fieldwork Adventures

25:02 Research and Future Plans

43:36 Conclusion and Next Episode Teaser 

Transcript

Theme Song 0:00

In every stream, in every tree, a story lives, a legacy. Let's listen close, let's take a stand, to keep the wild across the land. In every stream, in every tree, a story lives, a legacy.

Meredith 0:24

Welcome. You found us. Let the adventure begin. This is Rarified, the podcast where we're going to learn to love some of our rarest and most imperiled species. Today, we're jumping in the deep end. Well, perhaps wading in to meet a very cool and very old fish who loves the shallow coastal waters of Lake Erie. This endangered fish hangs out in many of the most popular bays, but not many people have met the spotted gar. So to introduce us, we're going to have to Dominique Rumble, a PhD student in the Department of Physical and Environmental Sciences at the University of Toronto, who's studying conservation in the Great Lakes Basin to join us. She hopes her passion for conservation will aid in the recovery of aquatic species at risk while filling in the gaps of knowledge in the restoration ecology field. She's also soon to be a published children's author, hoping to bring her love of the Spotted Gar to children everywhere. So jump in, the water's fine, and let's meet the incredible Spotted Gar. Awesome. And today we're talking about spotted gar. So this is a fish that you're studying, but it's not exactly the most common fish. Like I don't know if everybody listening knows what a spotted gar is. So can you tell us a little bit about it?

Dominique Rumball 1:49

Sure. Absolutely. And you're right. It's a pretty, pretty rare fish. It's actually an endangered fish. And our gar are known as our living dinosaurs or our living fossils because they are so old and they really kind of look the same that they have over evolutionary time. We don't really know why. They don't evolve so quickly, but it is kind of guessed that maybe they just have this really good ability to repair DNA, so they've kind of just lasted looking the same and just doing their thing for so many years. So when you look at gars, the first thing you'll think of is this beautiful, long bodied fish. They're kind of shaped like a baseball bat, and they have this really long mouth and lots of very spiky and sharp teeth. And one of the very cool things about Gars is that all of their scales are made of bone. So they actually have their own built in armor. They're called Ganoid Scales and they're made of bone and they kind of interlock with one another to give them this really cool body armor. So when we think about Gars do actually have two in Ontario. We have the long nosed and the spotted. I mean, it can be a bit tricky to tell them apart from one another, long nosed gar has a very long, needle like nose, and our spotted gar have more of a shorter and stubbier nose, almost like an alligator. that's how you can tell. the two apart. something that you won't find in an ID book, which is just something that I've kind of gathered over my time handling them, is longnose and spotted gar actually feel quite different. So longnose gar are quite firm. not as rounded and they are not slimy at all. But when you feel a spotted gar, they're quite slimy. It's the first thing you feel when you, when you touch them, they're much more rounded and they're almost. A little bit more squishier. so yeah, that's, that's what a gar looks like. They're quite beautiful, and of course, They have all of these beautiful spots, hence their name, the Spotted Gar.

Meredith 3:50

How are these not more kids favorite animals if it's literally like a dinosaur with body armor?

Dominique Rumball 3:56

Honestly, I don't know whenever I do show any kids, I do a lot of outreach activities, and whenever I show them their gar, they're always like, Oh, what is that? Everyone always gets so excited. So maybe because they're so rare, but they truly are a beautiful, beautiful fish.

Meredith 4:12

And I'm guessing, also, if they're rare, they're in the water. Probably most people haven't seen them. So, where do they live? Like, where are they? Where, where could we find a gar, I guess, spotted gar, because we have multiple gar.

Dominique Rumball 4:27

Yeah. So our Longnose, our Longnose Gar is quite common, so you can find it in a lot of different places, but our spotted gar and the reason they are so rare is that they're only found in Lake Erie and they're only found along the three coastal wetlands. So starting from the eastern side of Lake Erie, we have Long Point Bay, and then we come in the middle, we have Rondeau Bay, and then Point Pelee. They are found in some other locations, and we have found one or two individuals here or there. But for the most part, they only live in those three coastal wetlands, and that's where their critical habitat is actually found.

Meredith 5:05

And what makes those three spots so special is that the vegetation is that we don't have many coastal wetlands left.

Dominique Rumball 5:14

Yeah, so, they kind of like, they like areas that we as humans also really like to spend time in, interestingly enough. So they really like these shallow areas. Nice warm water, lots of vegetation and so they really also like, you know, like sandy bottoms as well, we find them in a lot of areas. So they really do like these kind of quiet, backwater coastal wetland areas that are a bit more protected. And when I say that, really only find them there when they're spawning. So in the spring and in the summer, we do think they go somewhere else for the rest of the year. But we don't, we don't actually know where they like to spend all their time. So when I say that this is the kind of habitat they like, we're more talking about, this is the habitat they like to kind of reproduce and spend their spring and summer.

Meredith 6:06

I think that's one of the challenges with protecting like a lot of the species we have in Ontario, in North America, is that we have a lot of information about certain aspects So, Of the species life and then less aspects about others. Like I know American eel, another endangered fish. We know about, you know, it's adult life, but we really have no idea what juveniles really are, where they come from and where they go. So it's interesting that it's the reverse for the spotted gar. We know where they're spawning, but we're not really sure where the adults are going.

Dominique Rumball 6:44

Yeah. And it's funny. You should actually say that because for this species too, We can find them when they are really tiny, like the size of my hand, and we can find them when they're big, you know, over 30 to 40 centimeters long. But for the life of us, we can't find them when they're in that teenager stage. So just like those eels, there's, there's still that little bit of life. We don't really know where they go and what they do.

Meredith 7:10

So do we know? I guess either when they're juveniles or adults, what do they eat? Like are, how do they mate? Like what's kind of like the day in the life of a spotted gar?

Dominique Rumball 7:23

Yeah. So I can maybe start by talking about what they eat. So we don't know everything they eat but we do know a few really important things about their diet. So the first part is kind of their behavior and how they get their food. So spotted gar are known as ambush predators. And that just kind of means that they like to, you know, hide in areas with lots of cover, like maybe some vegetation or even branches, sometimes even man made structures like concrete. they'll use this cover to hide and they'll just patiently sit and wait until something delicious goes by and they will snap, get their prey and eat them right away. So they are ambush predators and they are piscivores. So they will mostly eat fishes. In the water, they are known to opportunistically, whenever the chance comes by, feed on a lot of other different things as well. But in terms of like the different kind of fish species we think they eat, we know they eat a lot of different minnows and some yellow perch as well, but that, that's kind of all we know.

Meredith 8:28

Okay, so another fish mostly eats other fish. Very good hunter, ambush predator. So are they closer to the top of the, the food chain?

Dominique Rumball 8:38

Yes, they would be, and they don't actually have a lot of natural predators because they are, kind of have that beautiful body armor. Not a lot of fish are able to really get through that. So they, they don't really have too many things that would eat them.

Meredith 8:55

So if they're not getting over predated, what are the main threats then that they're facing?

Dominique Rumball 9:03

Yeah, so it's an interesting question. But unfortunately, the short answer is that we are their main threat. humans. So the first and foremost threat and reason why they're at risk is because we've destroyed a lot of their habitat. So Ontario used to just kind of be, you know, pre settlement circa 1800s, one big, massive wetland. when we think about it today, you know, if you're from Ontario, or if you're driving through the area, sure that's not what you see. So we've actually lost up to almost a third of our wetland since that time. So we've experienced a lot of really profound wetland loss and a lot of that is concentrated along the coasts of our Great Lakes. So we've lost a lot of their habitat and then there is a lot of things we do that kind of impact the habitat that's left. So some of them that we see in coastal areas in particular there. Are because we like to spend time in these areas, as I mentioned before, you know, there's an overlap between guards and humans. A lot of that really dense vegetation that they like makes it really difficult for us to kind of travel these areas. So one of their biggest threats in these coastal wetlands is actually vegetation removal. Which is often done a lot of times so that we can, you know, boat through these areas and travel through them. But unfortunately that can be very bad and make the habitat inhospitable for a lot of gar. And then we've also kind of hardened a lot of our shoreline that would have maybe been coastal wetland habitat. There are a few other threats that kind of fit within there and one of them is exotic species. So there, there are a ton. Unfortunately there are too many to name but some of the ones that at least where I study them in Rondo Bay that are quite prevalent would be common carp and European common reed, also known as Phragmites. So these would also impact the areas and their threats to where they live. a lot of these areas, too, we have a lot of agricultural land, so we get a lot of nutrients and sediments that come into our ecosystems and I mean, some of us have probably heard this term that our wetlands are kind of like the kidneys of our Great Lakes, so they filter out all the bad stuff, but unfortunately when you have something living in our filter system, cannot always be the greatest for them. So that's a really big risk. for them as well. And then the last major threat to spotted gar is climate change. It's a bit of an unknown though, because they do seem pretty tolerant of warmer waters and they do seem to like warmer, shallow water, we're not sure how well they'll do in climate change. And we're not sure, maybe there will be new habitat that they can go to, but can they reach it? We don't really know. so it's a bit of an unknown there, but it is one of their major threats as well.

Meredith 11:59

Yeah. I mean, climate change, I feel like for so many species, it's this like looming unknown and. Unfortunately, until we are experiencing more of the impacts, it's hard to predict, especially since, you know, our models aren't perfect. We don't have the full picture until we're living it. And I mean, hopefully our actions will limit the impact slightly, but you know, that's definitely a, a big unknown for a lot of species in Canada and North America. For sure. So your work, you're mostly in Rondo area. What's the focus of your research?

Dominique Rumball 12:35

Yeah. So I. I have, I'm doing a lot. I'm, I'm very lucky to be, to be working with, with spotted gar and specifically the Rondo Bay spotted gar population. But I'm kind of looking at a bit narrower of a subject. So I'm working with St. Clair Region Conservation Authority on a restoration project there. And really what we're studying is to look at, you know, not just spotted gar, but the community response restoration. So I am lucky enough to work with St. Clair Conservation, and I just want to shout out Craig Cotterson, who's the manager. At the Conservation Authority, as well as the entire team there, because they, they really helped me out a lot. They've given me a lot of training, a lot of guidance, and, you know, we couldn't do this work without them. So I just really want to thank them. so, together, what we're implementing is something called a Before After Control Impact Study. this just basically in fancy terms just means that we're taking a very accepted and standardized approach to monitoring restoration, where we're really just trying to tease out the impacts of, you know, time and the impacts of space and just get at How restoration is actually impacting spotted gar as well as the fish community in this area, and we do that by studying the area before any action is taking and studying, you know, areas around the restoration site as well as those are controls. And then over time, we'll hopefully do the restoration action and then measure after as well. so specifically for this project, we were trying to turn what was, I'm sure many moons ago, a beautiful wetland. It had now been turned into a farmland and we wanted to bring it back to that, you know, to what it once was. And we of different threats to spotted gar. So we kind of had to look at this from an ecosystem approach and consider some of those threats too. I mentioned before that two of the invasive species that are pretty impactful for spotted gar are common carp and European common reed or phragmites. So in this property, we're treating Phragmites that is there because Phragmites will grow in these really, really dense stands. And they basically just create habitat that fish can't access. So it's so dense that they can't access it. So in this area, we're treating the Phragmites in the hope that we can kind of create a bit more habitat that's accessible to fishes and turtles and all sorts of other animals that live in the water and create more kind of habitat area. Within within our project site. And then on the other side of things, we also had to figure out how to address kind of the common carp. So common carp are really just because they do two things. So they uproot a lot of vegetation, which for the gar wouldn't be great. then they also create this really turbid water and it just kind of means, you know, like coffee water really, really, it's got a lot of sediment floating around in it. It's really murky. And unfortunately, we do know that spotted gar have really reduced with their eggs hatching when the water is really turbid. So it's something that we wanted to make sure we addressed. So in this case, we're actually going to install jail bar, literally looks like jail bars, base exclusion at the front of our newly created wetland habitat to make sure that the really big carp that are really disruptful to these environments can't actually enter. And we hope that the spotted gar will be able to enter them. And there's, there's many different ways I can, if you'd like, I can go through kind of my actual sampling and how, how we got to this point looks like, if that's, if that's best.

Meredith 16:42

Yeah, like, I mean, I think for aquatic species, you know, how do we actually study them?

Dominique Rumball 16:48

Yeah. this, this is what my study looks like. There's many different ways to do it. But for this project in particular every May and June, we would head out to Rondo Bay and we'd set a bunch of fight nets. So if you don't know what a fike net is, it's what we call a passive gear type. So it sits in the water and lets the fishes come to it. And so we know that fishes really like to swim along shores. It's just something we know about their behavior and they really like to follow, follow shores and, and lines. And so what we'll do is we'll set a fike net and it has this long line that leads all the way to the shore and we set it perpendicular to shore. as the fish swims, it'll hit the net, and because they like to follow all the lines and the shores, they just keep following it right into our net. that works out well for us. As it swims into the back of the net, or the quad end of the net, there's little funnels that get smaller and smaller, so it's really hard for them to get back out. So what we'll do is we'll set these for about 24 hours and then we'll pick them, and we'll see not just what spotted gar we can catch in there, but also, What other kinds of fishes that are supporting that community we can find in there as well. So we do this at all sorts of sites and at every site we take, you know, things like water quality, what kind of vegetation is there, there's underwater structure there, how deep the water is. so at every site we set these nets, we get this really good idea of kind of a little micro ecosystem and what it looks like. And then we do that all around our different areas. But that being said, we can only catch spotted gar that way. so we do have to approach catching the baby gar a little bit different, our little juvenile gars. so I have no clue who figured this out, hats off to them but someone figured out that juvenile baby gar just like to sit down. Just below the surface of the water and kind of float. and so the best way to catch them is actually just to, we would go to a site, anchor our boat. And then we would just stare at the water for, you know, 15 minutes, half an hour. And sure enough, you would see a little guard just float right out from under, you know, a lily pad. And you had to, you know, get your a game on, make sure you're feeling athletic and just take an aquarium net and scoop it out the water. that's how we catch the baby, baby guard, the juvenile guard. Unfortunately you can't tell the difference between long nose and spotted gar. So what we do at that size is we just take a little fin clip, They're totally okay. They don't seem to mind it. They swim away just fine. and then months later, back in the lab, we'll eventually analyze that thin clip to figure out what kind of gar we actually caught.

Meredith 19:30

So we're using genetics from that fin clip to figure that out.

Dominique Rumball 19:34

Yes. Yeah. So we, we luckily have this whole, a bit complicated process to figure out, but there is a gene that we can test for. That we basically can tell us it's a long nose or it's a spotted.

Meredith 19:47

Cool. So it sounds like you spend a lot of time on the water and in wetlands.

Dominique Rumball 19:53

I do, I spend a lot of time, I love the wetlands.

Meredith 19:56

Do you have a favorite story from the field or like from when you've been out doing your studies? Both.

Dominique Rumball 20:03

well, I do have a favorite story. I do want to mention though, I do feel like, for those who work in the field, you kind of know this, but, Fieldwork is kind of like, a little bit like Vegas. Usually what, what happens there stays there. So I did get permission to share this story. But yeah, it is, there's always lots of fun stories in the field. You never know what to expect. But for this story, I'll, I'll choose to share. It was the first year of my project. We had just gotten some brand new fight nets and it was the first week we were setting them. So we're all excited. Turtles were a big issue for us. So we were trying out some different things that we put on the front of the net to make sure that the turtles weren't, you know, getting in the net. so, you know, we've got this brand new exclusion. Brand new nets. We set them in the water.

Meredith 20:51

Both. Both. Silence.

Dominique Rumball 21:02

No, Craig's a pretty strong guy. Like, you know, training for an Ironman. I play rugby. We're thinking here we are, like we're two strong individuals. What's going on? Why can't, you know, we pull this net into the boat. enough, we start taking a look and we can see that our turtle exclusion on the one side of our net is just gone. Something has absolutely. destroyed it. And then we take a peek into the net and all we see are many little heads of snapping turtles. So unfortunately we didn't have too many fish. So we thought, well, maybe we can just, you know, open the cod end, open the back end, let them go. but because they have different sized funnels in our nets, unfortunately, they were all captured in the middle of the net. and unfortunately, at this moment, this is when we realized that unlike our old nets that have a zipper to get turtles out of that middle section, our new ones did not.

Meredith 21:59

No. Okay.

Dominique Rumball 22:01

we were like, Oh, what do we do? So we decided to eventually get the net into the bottom of the boat. Did have to call my supervisor and say, hi, sorry. I just cut a hole, massive hole in your brand new net, where the zipper would have been. and so we got it into the bottom of the boat and we've got, I think it was about nine snapping turtles. And one of them was, The largest one I've ever seen in my life. so we're like, okay, I guess we'll just try and, you know, take one out at a time. now at this time I had a very irrational deathly fear of staffing turtles. So I was definitely not sticking my hands in the net. So it was definitely up to, to my colleague Craig to do that. But I was kind of holding some paddles, trying to shield him. from, you know, the heads of the other snapping turtles. of course, you know, there were nine in there. We did not have nearly enough paddles. So sure enough, we're trying to get that first turtle out. And one snaps and just grabs Craig's finger momentarily. So things are very chaotic. You know, trying to make sure Craig's okay at this point. The turtles are in the bottom of the boat and some of them are actually just starting to get mad and start exiting the net themselves. And so the biggest snapping turtle decided to start walking in the bottom of the boat towards me. So I panicked a little and I stepped up onto the bench of the boat. I was like, please stop coming towards me. and sure enough, my, again, very irrational fear, this turtle kept coming towards me and I just, I guess I thought it was gonna, it was gonna get me and so I just fell right out of the boat.

Meredith 23:36

No.

Dominique Rumball 23:37

into the wetlands. So yeah, you know, it was, it was a bit stressful. We did eventually compose ourselves. We did safely and rather quickly get the rest of them out of the net. And, you know, besides a pretty sore finger and a bit of a wet outfit to remember the day by. We were, we were okay. I do want to mention I am a bit better at handling snapping turtles. I wouldn't say without fear, but with a bit more comfort now. I don't think they'd force me out of the boat. but you know, at the time it was a pretty terrifying

Meredith 24:08

I mean, you know, there's another species that really still looks like a dinosaur.

Dominique Rumball 24:13

Absolutely.

Meredith 24:15

understand there's maybe some sort of primal reaction for dinosaur coming at you. I think that's a fair, I think multiple people listening to this would jump out of the boat too.

Dominique Rumball 24:25

I hope so. I think it does go to show, you know, you don't have to, you don't have to be perfect at everything in the field to get into it, you know, with, with some, with some willingness to learn, some commitment to the process and, you know, a very good mentor can overcome these kinds of things.

Meredith 24:42

And I mean, getting into this field is, is no joke. I know some people who are deathly afraid of snakes and then the job they got was monitoring snakes and they're like, well, this is how I get into the field. So I guess I'm facing my fears. So. We've talked a little bit that your research is looking at a wetland restoration project and how, I'm guessing you're trying to see how successful these actions are. What are other actions being taken to, you know, protect and support the spotted gar? Is it mostly restoration activities and research or, or what else are people working on?

Dominique Rumball 25:25

Yeah. So this is where kind of, you know, having a species listed under the Species at Risk Act is quite helpful because they put a lot of really good things together. And one of those things is kind of a recovery strategy that kind of approaches how we help not just spotted gar, but any other species that's listed. So there are three main areas of action that we consider when we're looking at recovering spotted gar. So the first one is just monitoring them. So this is, you know, we want to keep track of where they used to be, where they are now we want to make sure if we're seeing any major changes in their population size, that we're, you know, monitoring them often enough that we can detect that. And then I mentioned before, there were some, you know, areas we don't really know if they're there, or we've caught one individual and we're not sure why. So it's important to kind of also sample those areas and monitor those areas that. We don't really know if they're there to see if anything changes. So monitoring is kind of that first really big area. And then the second one is research. And this is kind of when you get into more of the specifics about the spotted gar life and, you know, how they live. And what's really important for spotted gar in particular is for understanding how the threats that we talked about. Are impacting, you know how they live or their survival. So when we when we say how how they live because they are part of such a complex and dynamic food web and ecosystem, even doing things that change their behavior can have massive impacts. And if everyone wants to see a really good example of that in a terrestrial ecosystem, they can look at the documentary how wolves change rivers. But basically, it's just, you know, you do change, you remove something or you change a behavior. It can have a cascading effect and change an entire ecosystem. So it's really important for us to understand how we're changing the behavior and if we're changing, you know, the survival of spotted gar. so one of the ways we do that is specifically looking at how exotic species like common carp and common reed. European common reed or phragmites impact them, and sometimes even how us treating something like phragmites or European common reed might impact them. And then as well, one of the really cool things that we don't know much about is, Why Longnose and Spotted Gar have such different distributions because Longnose Gar are kind of found everywhere in Ontario, but Spotted Gar are only found along the coast. So understanding how they coexist and why they don't kind of existent like Gar do in the rest of the rest of Ontario, at least. then lastly, like we want to be able to try, and as we talked about earlier, predict the effects of climate change. So those are some of the really. specific areas of research that we're looking into. And then the last one is a bit integrated within, you know, research and what we're doing now is just that, that stewardship outreach and kind of awareness piece of recovery. so it's really important. when we're trying to recover a species that we promote things like stewardship and what's happening now habitat restoration. And we get local individuals and local communities involved in kind of taking care of and improving not just coastal wetlands, but you know, the areas that they're living in. So another really cool way that we can Kind of give a little bit of outreach and awareness is also by talking to commercial and recreational fishers, so we don't, we don't think that, you know, these fishing industries have a big impact on spotted gar, but it is important that if they are catching spotted gar that they can identify them. what to do with them and also kind of let people know so that maybe these are new data points that we have and we know more about them. so there are lots of different ways that, you know, people can improve the health of their watersheds and, and just, help more, give more information. So that's kind of where that last, you know, stewardship outreach and awareness piece comes into recovery.

Meredith 29:33

Yeah, and if people are listening to this and they're like, well, what actions can I take to improve the health of the watershed that I'm in, especially if you're around like Erie, like, or if you could wave a magic wand and have people change something that all live around Lake Erie, like what would you want them to do? So, so, so,

Dominique Rumball 30:03

that there are so many different ways that we can help. But I think the first is that we really need to just repair our relationship with nature and just become reconnected with nature. I think a lot of us have become disconnected and, you know, maybe we don't want to help, we don't care. And so there's just not enough reason for it. So I really think before we do consider, you know, other types of action, we should all just take a moment Take some time and just visit with nature and reconnect with it. now that being said, I think education is one of the biggest things that we do in conservation. A lot of times when we help species at risk, just making sure that we do have and create and keep our ecosystems healthy. when we have these healthy ecosystems, we actually coexist with nature a lot better. So nature will provide us, especially coastal wetlands, with a lot of really valuable and services. And often times the way nature does their job and how cost effective it is for nature to do that. to provide these services is just incomparable to anything that, you know, humans could build or invent. So at the end of the day, it's really important to learn about our ecosystems, learn about our species at risk, learn how they support us and what functions and, you know. Services they provide, and then in turn, we can figure out how we can support them to achieve more of a better, you know, balance and symbiotic relationship. now that, that's a pretty gen like a, a general answer, so if you don't know where to start to get your kind of education, I would really recommend visiting your local conservation authority, and they can kind of help

Meredith 31:51

Yeah. Hm. Mm. Mm. Yeah. And that's a wrap. You have one minute.

Dominique Rumball 32:12

today is just to make sure that you, you know, share what you learn. So we're really lucky to live in this place where we interact with people from, you know, all walks of life, all backgrounds, all different experiences. And having a conversation about what, you know, you may learn about your ecosystem is just a great way to share your knowledge, but also to get a different perspective. and maybe just without knowing it kind of collectively come together and even start problem solving for some of the issues that we face.

Meredith 32:41

I love that because truly the individual impact, I mean, it's great, but it's really the collective impact. And the only reason we're going to, you know, reach a community or collective is by is through relationships and chatting. So I think that's a really important piece. And when people are having these conversations, I What sort of fun facts about the spotted gar should they sprinkle in because I'm a sucker for a fun fact and sometimes, you know, a good conversation, like, and a fun fact thrown in there gets people excited.

Dominique Rumball 33:15

Yeah. I just think that they're, they're so rare. They're only found in Lake Erie is a great fun fact. I do think that their scales are made of bone is just so awesome. The other one that I would say that I haven't, I mean, I could have talked about it, but I haven't yet is that believe it or not spotted gar are air breathers. So yes, they live in the water and that's their home. And they can get all the oxygen they need from the water. But when. The water isn't providing enough oxygen. They actually just stick their little snouts out of the water and gulp air. And they have kind of like a modified lung and they can basically just take oxygen from the air as well. so I think that's a really, really cool thing and, and I've seen it from, you know, the baby gars that are smaller than my hand to the massive, you know, 70 centimeter long adults. And they all just do this beautiful air gulp and just swim away. So I think that's one of the pretty cool fun facts.

Meredith 34:11

That is a very cool fun fact and probably helps you when you're studying them. If you have them out of the water on occasion.

Dominique Rumball 34:18

Yes, yeah, exactly. I mean, we try and limit, we limit as much as we can how much they are out of the water, but yes, they can ergo, which is, which is a bit nice.

Meredith 34:28

Awesome. Well, we've talked a lot about the spotted gar and obviously a very cool, but very endangered fish. But I'd like to know a little bit, just quickly, a little bit more about you and how you even got involved working with spotted gar and how you got into research.

Dominique Rumball 34:46

Yeah, so this is, this is a pretty good question. And it's pretty funny I find because, know, if I thought about this five years ago and thought, Oh, where will I be in five years? This is, this is definitely not it. But I'm so glad that it is. So it kind of all started in my undergrad at Queen's University. I took a two week fisheries field course. absolutely loved it. I will say I was awful at handling you know, the fish and the fishes and everything, but it was a really good time. I learned a lot. It was fantastic. So when I kind of started to think about, you know, graduate school and looking at different master's program, I was drawn to one lab in particular. And this is one of my, one of my supervisors, Dr. Nicholas. And it's out of the University of Toronto. So this lab largely focuses on freshwater conservation, and I was really excited. So I kind of, you know, a message out to

Meredith 35:37

Okay.

Dominique Rumball 35:57

in the sense that it had a very cool culture. So it was one of the only labs when I was doing a lot of my research at different schools and even within, within U of T that had a diversity, equity and inclusion statement on its website. and after kind of being part of the lab and meeting everyone it's something that I saw, you know, diversity was not just embraced. It was really celebrated there. And so I knew that I was going to like the research and just having that culture of a lab. I thought this is the right place for me to be. so sure enough. I ended up joining the lab and, you know, within a few weeks of being out on the week sorry, out on the water. I was actually getting trained by one of my colleagues, Jennifer. like chub sucker. And within those first couple of weeks, I just kind of knew that I had found, you know, my passion and that this is what, this is what I wanted to do for a really long time. I look back now though, and I think how it's kind of funny that I never realized this is what I wanted to do. As a kid, you know, my family used to joke and they call me a fish or a mermaid, you know, tell me I had gills because I would never get out of the water. You know, I'd be in my grandma's swimming pool or up at the cottage. I'd just throw a pair of goggles on and, you know, stare at the underwater world that was just unfolding. And it was all so fascinating to me. I think now how water's kind of, you know, it's a touchstone for me when things are going well in life, when things aren't going so well. like I just have such a deep connection with it. I'll just go and visit the water. I'll stand in the water. I'll feel the waves and things just seem better. so no matter you know what species I do work on or what what body of water I really just do feel privileged to be able to, you know, hopefully be a good steward to the land and, know, try and reconnect people back to the beautiful waters that we have, because I now see that, you know, this is where I was meant to be. It just took me some time to figure it out.

Meredith 37:50

Yeah, I love that you brought up, you know, lab culture, because that can be almost as important as the research that you're doing. And as you know, people who obviously know how important biodiversity is sometimes are, I personally think that our field has a long way to go in supporting diversity within the field. So it's awesome to hear that there are labs that are putting that at the forefront of their mission. and and I, I totally agree with you too, that, you know, in Canada, but especially Ontario and North America, lakes and water are. Such a part of our identity, like the great lakes, even growing up in Toronto, you know, you're on Lake Ontario, it's this huge body of water. And you kind of just think, well, this is what lakes are. And then you go other places and you're like, Oh no, like this is a really special, unique thing to, to home. And it really does help you like reconnect with, with where you're from. And I love being by the water too. So. As fellow mermaids, I, I totally understand.

Dominique Rumball 38:56

love it.

Meredith 38:57

So, so last question for you, and it might be the toughest one yet, but we've heard about your restoration project and your research, but like, what, what are the next steps? What are you, what are you hoping for, for the future?

Dominique Rumball 39:12

Yeah, so that's a really great question. In the short term, and something I didn't. Get too into when I was talking about my project I am continuing on with this project for the next, hopefully three years. So we have a lot of, you know, spotted guard that we've also tagged with a different, different types of tags. And because we've tagged them, I'm really, really excited to continue monitoring this project and see if once the restoration is You know, completed, we'll be able to track where they go. And if they come in and out of the wetland that we create and how long they spend in there, so I'm, I'm really excited for the next phase of my research and hopefully again, that'll, you know, happen over the next two or three years for next steps. And in my career, I mean, I'm in year two of five of my PhD. So luckily I do have some time to figure out what exactly I want to do, but I really do think. Working in wetlands is something that's really important. And I do think, you know, studying spotted gar is really important as well. aren't too many people who actually do study them. So, quick shout out to Bill Glass, who is one of the only who's, you know, really pulled a lot of information. During his doctoral work spotted car. So, you know, his research is kind of what we know about spotted guard in the area. There isn't too much else besides a few studies here and there. So it's really just a privilege to be able to continue studying them because I think they, you know, they deserve some recognition, they deserve some love. So hopefully we can get them to a place that, we can, we can actually make meaningful change for them. and then for wetlands, they are just so important, so I really hope I can continue working in them. They're, they're a bit more challenging, I think, in some ways but I really do think that they're, they're just such an important part of our ecosystem that we really need to figure out how to conserve the ones we have left and hopefully how to restore some. Back to, you know, what they used to be.

Meredith 41:13

Great answer. And also, I guess I lied because now I have another question for you. And this is the danger of doing a podcast with me. I might never let you leave. So are you hoping with these tagged individuals to answer the question of what these intermittent. And I guess, you know, juveniles or teenagers, intermediate fish are doing and what they look like. Are you hoping to find one of those elusive teenagers?

Dominique Rumball 41:37

So unfortunately we can only tag the really big gar. Yeah, so, you know, tagging is, this is all very, this is all very stressful for, for spotted gar, even just, you know, putting them in a net and handling them, it's a very, you know, we're taking them out of their home in a very unfamiliar environment. You know, we're handling them. This is very stressful. Some fish will die from handling stress. So. know, it's really important just, you know, to make sure that we're actually handling the ones that are big enough to survive. And so we're only tagging the ones that are big enough to survive. We've had really good success rate with it so far. So unfortunately, most of these are past that stage. I will share one little success story though. We did actually capture a juvenile so in that teenager life stage this past year while sampling. And we're, we're still waiting on the analysis, the genetic analysis. We took a fin clip just to be on the safe side. But based on, kind of, you can look at their snout measurements, we do believe it was a spotted guard juvenile. So, they are there. Whether we can find them or not is a different story altogether. But, the last thing I will say about this is, I do have my own hypothesis why we struggle to find them. And that's because they just grow so fast that I don't think we we capture them in that life stage very often. So we're at the edge of their population here in Canada, and edge populations have been shown to grow much faster. And in the States, they actually said that their gar could grow over 30 centimeters long before the winter. So I suspect maybe that's what's happening is they're just growing very fast, but you know, you would hope that we would catch A few of them here and there but it still remains a mystery to me.

Meredith 43:26

Maybe we just need to make these fish more abundant so that we have a better shot of catching some teenagers.

Dominique Rumball 43:33

Exactly. That would be the dream.

Meredith 43:36

That's a wrap on the Spotted Gar. A massive thank you to Dominique Rumble for taking the time to share her research with us. And here's to a follow up episode when she's completed the restoration project. And if you love this episode, please subscribe and leave us a review. It helps rarefied reach more people who care about our planet's rarest creatures. And don't forget to follow us on Instagram at rarefied. pod and sign up for our newsletter on our website for updates, behind the scenes. And sneak peeks at upcoming episodes. Next time, we'll be leaving the coast of the Great Lakes behind, but we won't go too far. We're going to explore the forests of Southern Ontario in search of a rare and beautiful plant. You won't want to miss it. So until next time, get out there and explore the wild because every species has a story, and every one of us can make a difference. Thanks for listening, and until next time, happy trails!