Black Ash: An Elusive Tree

In this episode of Rarefied, host Meredith Meeker explores the fascinating world of the black ash tree and its conservation challenges. Featuring guests Nina Hunt and Heather Zurbrigg from the Forest Gene Conservation Association (FGCA), the discussion covers the tree's ecological and cultural significance, particularly its role in wetlands and its connection to Indigenous communities. The episode delves into the impact of the invasive emerald ash borer, efforts to identify and propagate resistant trees, and collaborations with various research, government, and Indigenous organizations. Listeners are encouraged to participate in conservation efforts through citizen science platforms like iNaturalist and TreeSnap. The episode highlights the importance of preserving genetic diversity and fostering partnerships in the fight to save this keystone species.

fgca.net 

www.inaturalist.org/projects/ontario-black-ash-inventory,

treesnap.org/

00:00 Introduction to Rareified Podcast

00:34 Meredith's College Days and Black Ash Introduction

01:21 Black Ash Characteristics and Habitat

02:02 Why Black Ash is Endangered

02:22 Meet the Experts: Nina Hunt and Heather Zurbrig

04:03 Black Ash Conservation Efforts

05:24 Challenges and Strategies in Black Ash Conservation

17:14 The Role of Indigenous Communities

22:23 How You Can Help Save Black Ash

27:30 Personal Stories and Reflections

35:26 Conclusion and Next Episode Teaser

Transcript

Theme Song 0:00

In every stream, in every tree, a story lives, a legacy. Let's listen close, let's take a stand, to keep the wild across the land. In every stream, in every tree, a story lives, a legacy.

0:23

Welcome, you found us. Let the adventure begin. This is Rareified, the podcast where we're going to learn to love some of our rarest and most imperiled species. I'm your host, Meredith Meeker, and this week's episode is taking me right back to my college days. So grab your ID books, open up iNaturalist, and let's go look at some trees. This week, we're talking all about black ash. Learning to ID ash in our plant ID course during my ecosystem restoration program. Was challenging, but I loved it. We had an awesome instructor, shout out to Albert, who almost turned me into a plant person. I made flashcards and I will admit it. If I didn't get a hundred percent on our quizzes, I was pretty disappointed in myself. I'm sure it had nothing to do with the fact that my sister was in the same class and were not competitive with each other at all. But I digress. Back to black ash. Black ash is a smaller tree that can reach up to 15 to 20 meters in height with a trunk that can be about 50 centimeters wide. It's got these deep green leaves with jagged edges and a light gray bark. That's soft like cork when it's young, but as it ages, the bark thins and develops flat scales. Black ash like to grow in wet areas with rich soils, so in wetlands and swamps, and it grows throughout the northeastern parts of Canada and the U. S. Globally, and in the United States, the species population is considered to be secure, and in Canada, it's apparently secure. So why is black ash featured on this podcast about rare species and considered endangered in Ontario? Well, I will let our guests tell you more about that. No, I didn't misspeak. You heard me right. We have two guests on this episode from the Forest Gene Conservation Association, or FGCA. First, we have Nina Hunt, who's the Species Conservation Coordinator, and she's passionate about all things plants and plants conservation. She has a background in horticulture and field botany and has experience with applied species at risk research. Joining her, we have Heather Zurbrig, the Director of Species Conservation. Heather feels very lucky to have been able to devote so much of her career to conservation and the recovery of species at risk, first with the Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources, And now with the FGCA, so we've got two fabulous guests on today's episode, and I won't make you wait any longer. So let's get into it.

Meredith 3:04

Awesome. And we're talking about Black Ash today. Very exciting. And let's start off, maybe really easy with your favorite thing, each of you, about the Black Ash.

Nina Hunt 3:17

Okay. Well, I guess my favorite thing is, it's kind of, elusive? Like, I feel like a lot of people don't actually know how to identify it, but now that it's species at risk in Ontario, it's getting a lot of attention, so I think it's getting a lot of people engaged in learning how to actually identify the species, so I think that's exciting.

Heather 3:47

becoming more familiar with the species. I'm finding out that just the physiological interesting things that of black ash and a couple of things are the, the nature of the, wood and also the ability of the black ash to be able to fend off. EAB,

Meredith 4:03

Yeah, because this isn't the only tree species you guys work with. So do you want to give us a little, I guess, Cole's note on on your organization and really briefly the other species or work you're doing? Yeah,

Heather 4:29

to forest genetic resources. And gene conservation in Ontario. So we've had as an organization, we've had 27 years of experience with the broad network of partners in the public and private conservation sectors. And we work to achieve our mission, which is to ensure that genetic diversity is recognized and protected as the foundation of a resilient forested landscape. just recently launched our black ash recovery program in 2023, but we've been working on a butternut recovery program since the 90s. So that's a very robust program and we're also looking to expand into other trees and trouble like beech trees and hemlock. As well, we work with some of the sustainable forest licensees on species like. spruce and white pine.

Meredith 5:21

That sounds like an amazing work. A lot of work to be done. There's a lot of, unfortunately, forest pests and forest diseases that seem it seems like there's a new one every year, which probably keeps your job interesting, but probably also makes it pretty challenging as well. And I. I think maybe we learned a lot from emerald ash borer because ash were super abundant at one point, and now we've lost so much of our ash canopy, and so it's maybe a bit of a warning sign that we really need to invest in research and how can we protect healthy forests and I think coming at it from a genetic perspective. It's a really interesting angle for it as well. So yeah, amazing work. I'm glad you guys are doing it.

Heather 6:13

Yes, it's and and yeah.

Meredith 6:17

We, I guess maybe already spoiled it or answered the question, but Black Ash relatively newly listed, but why are they at risk? Why are they threatened or what are their threats?

Nina Hunt 6:32

Yeah, so I guess it's maybe not like some of the other species that you've looked at in your podcast because black ash is not typically considered a rare plant. So it's actually quite commonly found in the swamps within Ontario, and it is still provincially tracked as S4, so apparently secure, but it is being wiped out, for lack of a better word, by the invasive emerald ash borer. So this is an insect that tunnels in and eats the inner bark of the tree, which cuts off its ability to transport water and nutrients and eventually leads to its death, so. are projected declines of up to 70 percent of the species, and the predicted mortality is actually expected to exceed 90 percent across much of the range impacted by emerald ash borer. So, in Ontario, the provincial government has listed the species as endangered. This is within the areas that are impacted by Emerald Ash Borer. So the Black Ash does seem to be the most vulnerable to Emerald Ash Borer infections, so it kind of has a faster mortality and it can get impacted at a younger age, so it can be infected and impacted as well. As young or as small as two and a half centimeters DBH. So just some of the reasons why it's kind of listed, but there's a lot of other things that we'll probably get into throughout this podcast as well, in addition to that.

Meredith 8:11

For people who aren't familiar with DBH or diameter at breast height, roughly what size of trunk are we talking about? Easy comparison. A pop bottle or is it like a, like a coin size?

Nina Hunt 8:28

I would say like about an inch,

Meredith 8:31

Okay. Yeah, I mean, emerald ash borer, we've known about it for a long time. I don't think we truly understood the damage it was going to do. So what, what work, I guess, are you guys doing at FGCA to help the black ash? What are you guys looking at? And maybe just what are our hopes for black ash in the future?

Heather 8:56

Goals within the province have been separated into 3 regions within Ontario Based on the

Nina Hunt 9:03

You

Heather 9:23

level of tolerance or resistance to the pest. And this has been found in ash. And we're also working on methods of propagation and sea collection to be able to preserve the genetics of the lingering ash as well as the genetic diversity of the existing black ash populations, because there are other

Meredith 9:41

Okay.

Heather 10:03

going on, and we're working with a lot of other university and government organizations, both in the US and Canada. So, within the black ash range in North America, that are also working on black ash recovery, and they're helping us to develop protocols to look at the health and the habitat as well as future studies on identifying resistance. So we've also been working with indigenous communities to make sure our recovery programs support their needs, given the cultural FGCA isn't particularly working on just yet, but I feel like needs to be mentioned is establishing biocontrol. So that's happening at least in Canada through The Canadian Forest Service which is a parasitic wasp that is a predator of the EAB. And I think there are, I don't know the details of this fully, but I think there are a handful of different species of parasitic wasps that are being released and some of them have been successful. And then there's also injecting local insecticides into the tree trunks, the ash trunks but it needs to be done every couple of years, and it does seem to be quite effective, but it's not feasible on a large scale. It's like those, those big sort of statuesque trees that, you know, are, are maybe more important to. To a community or municipality or whatever that that people want to keep, keep healthy and, relatively EAB free.

Meredith 11:49

Okay, so lots of moving parts working together. So many follow up questions. One being how do you take a genetic sample from a tree? Like is this a bark scrape? Are you picking up leaves?

Heather 12:06

propagation is take scions. So it's just the branch tips and then we would graph those onto, okay. root stock, which could be a black ash or a green ash. I know there have been. A few Nina, do you remember how many have been how many species have been, tried as root stock, or has it just been green ash so far?

Nina Hunt 12:30

I think they've also tried Manchurian ash in the US, but that's not a native species here. So we, we didn't really consider that. Just because we wanted to use a native species in our orchards, but yeah, it's also been tried.

Heather 12:44

that's cloning of of that that particular. resistant ash. And we're also trying other methods of propagation too. It's a little bit different, just the, the grafting versus C collection, because C collection is the parent tree plus the, the pollen of another tree. So we don't know exactly what that is. That progeny is going to look like, whereas if we take a cutting of that parent tree, we know exactly what the genetic makeup of that, that clone or that graft is going to be.

Meredith 13:22

And do you and this orchards, I mean, it just kind of seems like something out of Fern Gully or something like that, where you've got this like protected trees all growing up together. Is it? Like similar to what you would think of for like an apple orchard, you've got like rows of trees or is it more like a forest composition or like plantation?

Heather 13:48

established, actually, with our butternut work right now. We've got six, six orchards. We call them archives, genetic archives, because basically what we're, what we're doing is collecting Material from, from the trees that are showing putative, so potential tolerance to the. The given in butternut, it's the pathogen in a black ash. It is the insect. To the some tolerance to the given threat. and then, then all of those, those trees will pollinate with one another and you know, depending on the genetic recombination, perhaps some of those trees will of the progeny, some of the seeds that come out of that orchard will be will be tolerant as well. And then we can look into whether there's you know, genetic linkages to, to resistance or tolerance there's just so many things that come out of these, that can come out of these orchards.

Meredith 14:43

Very, very cool. And yeah I'm trying to still wrap my head around it, but awesome. And I guess these. Plants will then potentially be replanted or transplant or their seeds get, once you've established resistance or genetic viability, then are they replanted in forests or what's the long term plan for these orchards?

Nina Hunt 15:07

So our long term goal is to do reintroductions. we have a lot of work ahead of us before we get there, but there is work being done. With some of our partners at the U. S. Forest Service and Holden Arboretum looking at the resistance and doing resistance testing. So making sure that these orchards that we establish actually have tested resistance to emerald ash borer before we then use to probably grow seedlings and then plant the seedlings. But there's still we have to figure out all those details as we go. But also a lot of work to figure out where we're going to prioritize for those reintroductions. Southern Ontario has definitely been hit the hardest, like Heather said. So our focus right now is Southern Ontario, where those ash. Forests have been decimated, there are of along the leading edge and further north in Ontario, those populations are relatively intact. So, we're not focusing our reintroductions. They're still important to collect genetics potentially from those populations, but our reintroductions would be Southern Ontario.

Meredith 16:18

I've also heard, interestingly, because I know that's where like Emerald Ash Borer really got a stronghold. I've heard that the woodpecker populations are doing really great. And I'm like, I wonder, I don't know if people have done a true study of whether that's correlation or causation, but I wouldn't be surprised if The woodpeckers are at least a fan of, of this dead wood that's now available to them.

Nina Hunt 16:42

Yeah, actually the health protocol that we've kind of been working on with some of our partners does include looking for woodpecker damage as a sign of Emerald Ash Borer being in that location. So definitely seems that way.

Meredith 16:59

Too bad they couldn't have done all the biocontrol, but I mean, it'll be interesting to see how the wasps and woodpeckers maybe end up working together. But sounds like there's a lot of work going in to saving the species. I know you mentioned have, like, they're very culturally significant and you have indigenous partnerships, and I'd like to know. To come back to that a little bit later, but right now, while we're or maybe it'll even tie into this next question, but a lot of work is going into this. That means a lot of resources are going into this. Why is it so important to save the black ash or ash in general?

Nina Hunt 17:40

Yeah, so I guess there's like multiple different of of that. So I'll try not to go on to too much of a rabbit hole, but, black ash is considered a keystone species, both ecologically and culturally. So, this means that it has a disproportionately large effect on the structure and function of its surrounding ecosystems. So they are most commonly found in swamps that are at least seasonally flooded. And so they have a large role in regulating the hydrology those areas. And so kind of the concern is that Once EAB comes through, it'll kind of mess up the hydrology and lead to downstream impacts like flooding and and also losing biodiversity of those ecosystems themselves because it's not really certain right now what's going to happen EAB comes through and Yeah, what the impact of that whole ecosystem will be, we have partners that are looking at that, but there's definitely a large number of species that are found wetlands, black ash swamps, and a number of species at risk and rare species. So things that are often found in wetlands, Jefferson's salamanders, false hopsedge, Blanding's turtle, I think you've heard of those. Maybe interviewed some people on that already, but just like, yeah, species that are associated with those types of ecosystems really rely on having a wetland. We don't know if there's going to be a wetland of the same type. Level afterwards and then culturally important. Definitely. We've kind of alluded to it several times throughout this. So we can cover that in a whole other question, but it's used as like for basket making numerous other uses and is important to the indigenous communities that we've been working with as well. So

Meredith 19:35

Yeah, let's, let's get into that. Like what communities are you working with? How are they partnering with you on this? And I mean, obviously they're, they're invested in the success of your program as well, so I'd love to hear how those, those partnerships are working.

Heather 19:52

We have indigenous communities and we're working with several indigenous communities. And in our communications and work we've learned a little about. The cultural significance. And it's been the, been a part of some Indigenous origin stories. So including the Wabanaki creation story, and as Nita mentioned, basket making is of cultural and economic importance to many communities. We understand that other uses for black ash include tools and sports equipment and uses medicines and food sources for many culturally important wildlife species. with respect to a black ash conservation and recovery have a number of communities within Ontario that are are interested in in working alongside our our efforts. And and we're, we're happy to to collaborate and figure out what their needs are and to be able to, to understand more about that and to be able to integrate that into our, our recovery program.

Nina Hunt 20:57

Yeah, so we've have a number of communities that kind of FGCA has developed relationships with over time. So kind of continuing that partnership and expanding into new species now that we have funding to work on Black Ash. So We've been working with Six Nations of the Grand River Mississaugas of Scugog Island First Nation some work with Akwesasne and we're also hoping to expand also because Black Ash is such a cool place. culturally important species. So kind of putting, it out there that we do have funding also to help support Indigenous communities that are interested in in black ash conservation. There does seem to be a lot of interest in planting by Indigenous communities. So we're hoping that once we get our recovery program a little bit further along, once we have seedlings then those would be prioritized for Indigenous communities.

Meredith 21:51

I think it's so important to highlight these kinds of partnerships because conservation and indigenous communities haven't always worked together. Together or they've off indigenous communities have also often been excluded from conservation. So I think it's really important to highlight areas of partnership. So I hope you guys keep on going. And I hope that program expands for you. And it would be a great way to to see black ash. You know, potentially returned or thriving again on cultural lands. So maybe, so that's great that you guys are doing those partnerships, but for people either outside of those communities or just anybody listening to this podcast, like what can people do to help black ash?

Heather 22:42

We're looking for sites. We're looking for ash, black ash that are showing signs of resistance to EAB. And also generally looking to obtain seeds or scion material to preserve the genetic diversity. So even if you have ones that you don't think are, you know, there's, there's a number of them and you can't necessarily identify them as lingering ash, they still might be of interest, especially if they're, they're producing seed just to maintain that genetic diversity of the species. We have partners that we're working with at the National Tree Seed Center. and the Ontario Forest Research Institute, and they have they have seed storage facilities. So we're working working closely with them to be able to to be able to store some of this for longer term recovery and conservation use. And also there are a couple of, of apps iNaturalist and TreeSnap, where you can report healthy individuals and seed crops. So if you don't want to, or don't remember our contact information or whatever just iNaturalist or TreeSnap, you can definitely report healthy individuals and any seed crops that you come across of the black ash.

Meredith 23:56

I haven't heard of tree snap before. Is it like a specialized naturalist for tree? I. D. or. Tree community science.

Nina Hunt 24:05

Yeah, so it's not just focused on ash either. So it is kind of a platform similar to survey 1, 2, 3, if you've ever used that. So it kind of asks you a series of questions. You can upload photos and then researchers who are specifically looking at that species has access to the data. So to iNaturalist, but a little bit, I guess, more vetted in that you have researchers that are looking at this and And what you submit. So all species of ash on their hemlock butternut, a bunch that I'm probably not remembering. But yeah,

Meredith 24:43

Well, I know what I'm downloading after this conversation,

Nina Hunt 24:46

I was just going to say it's it's a lot more commonly used in the US. So there's actually not very many in Ontario, but we're kind of trying to get the word out there because there are a lot of researchers in Ontario in the US that could potentially use that data.

Meredith 25:01

That's awesome. And it's always good to have a couple of different resources but also want to go back because at the very beginning you were talking about how it can be quite difficult or not many people know how to actually ID black ash. So how, I mean, I know iNaturalist can help you figure out whether you have a, an ash or what kind of ash it is, but. What should people be looking for if they're out for a walk and they're like, oh, this, I wonder if there's black ash here.

Nina Hunt 25:31

Yeah, so I was actually going to say that as being something that's like underrated that you can actually do to help the species because I feel like black ash is often overlooked and people are just like, oh, it's an ash, but actually being able to distinguish it from green ash, which might be found in similar species as well. Yeah. Habitats, I think is, is really important because black ash is still pretty common in swamps, so there is definitely a possibility that if you're in a swampy wet area and you're like, I don't know if this is a black ash, there's a good chance it could be. So yeah, I think just learning how to identify it. Habitat, definitely key thing. So if you're in a swampy wet A very wet flooded or seasonally flooded area. It is often black ash. There's sometimes overlap with green ash. But that's a good indicator. wouldn't see white ash there. And then other than that. guess just like a series of things to look at is the best way to approach it. I don't like relying on one ID feature. There's a lot of, a lot of the time people are like, oh yeah, look for the space between the lateral bud and the terminal bud. But if you're out there in the spring when the buds are swelling and the leaves are just starting to come out, everything kind of jumbles together and, and you can't tell from that. So There is that feature, which is great in the winter but also the young trees have really quirky bark, like, undeniably looks quirky oppositely arranged leaves, they are compounds, so there's multiple leaflets on one leaf There's brown or hair at the base of those leaflets the leaf scars are rounded, so there's a number of things that, that you can look for, but

Meredith 27:07

So, it easiest to identify when. The leaves are out.

Nina Hunt 27:12

I would say yes, in general and combination of, like, the bark and the leaves is a really good indicator, I would say.

Meredith 27:20

I mean, that's also great to know, like if you're doing an iNaturalist entry, like take a picture of the bark and the leaves or the leaf scars or the twigs, take a couple of photos. I mean, obviously you guys are, are the experts you've been working on, on trees and black ash for a while now, but what was your aha moment or why did you decide you wanted to work? With trees with genetics, like it's a very, it's feels very niche, but so I'm curious about how you guys kind of decided that this was your path.

Heather 27:55

don't know if I had an aha moment. It was more of a lifelong thing for me. My career with the ministry of natural resources, I ended up in in species at risk. of my main files was butternut. Recovery. And it all just kind of went from there. I feel like for the last 15 years or so, I've been working on on tree species and, and it just sort of just snowballed. So so I'm yeah, very lucky and very excited to be where I am.

Nina Hunt 28:23

And I guess I will also say that I don't know really if I had an aha moment.

Meredith 28:29

Thank you very much.

Nina Hunt 28:29

and I'm sure I could go on a tangent if it were, like, asking

Meredith 28:33

Okay.

Nina Hunt 29:03

Botanic Garden, their conservation horticulturalist. And then it was kind of an aha moment in a sense, cause a few years later, I ended up working with her. Emma Nigel doing wood poppy translocations. So yeah, that just just kind of came full circle in that moment and being like, this is really cool. Yeah,

Meredith 29:23

Okay. That sounds like a really cool full circle moment and kind of an aha moment. If you had a spark that like really set you down, perhaps a different trajectory. So very cool. And maybe one day I'll get to hear a story of someone being like, I heard an episode on black ash and you know what? It completely changed my point of view. And maybe for, you know, to mine some more inspiration, but do you guys have a favorite memory or story from working with Black Ash or working in the field? Yeah,

Nina Hunt 30:15

just a forest way in the back, and maybe they'll go for walks once in a while back there, but. ash swamps, you can't really go for a walk back there. So getting to see all of that biodiversity and often you'll come across plants that I just, I wouldn't expect anywhere else. I, like, last June just the orchids blooming in those wetlands is amazing to see. So that's, I guess, kind of my, my favorite part.

Meredith 30:46

you don't really think like orchids in Ontario, generally Together?

Nina Hunt 30:50

Yeah. Yeah. So it's, it's cool. And it's. Also a very time sensitive thing. It's you can miss them blooming by a day. So I think just grateful that it's kind of the kind of work that I just get to come across something like that, which blows my mind.

Meredith 31:06

Yeah. Those are the days you're like, I'm getting paid for this. Yeah,

Nina Hunt 31:10

Yeah.

Meredith 31:10

for sure. Maybe you could tell us that, you know, if this species were to have a superpower or like something that you think we should, we could be able to learn from this species, what do you think it would be?

Nina Hunt 31:24

Yeah, so, I mean, I guess I kind of alluded to this earlier too, but with it being a keystone species and having such a big impact on the structure of the ecosystem, there has been studies looking at kind of a comparison of black ash versus some other Like co dominant wetland tree species that you might think, Oh, well, maybe if black ash dies off, it'll then be taken over by red maple or yellow birch or, or other wetland trees like that. But black ash, it does have a significantly greater ability to suck up the water from those soils. I think it's like up to 160 percent higher black ash versus. Red maple or yellow birch. Just that ability to, to regulate the water is, is pretty wild. Yeah.

Meredith 32:29

your work. Like, what's the most unexpected or like exciting thing you've learned through your either working with black ash or just working with at risk trees or the genetics

Heather 32:45

just surprised and excited about the resilience that we're seeing in the face of this, this EAB threat we're seeing Black Ash's response to the insect and, and Like in abundant regeneration and early seed set that we're seeing some of the saplings. So even just 3 cm DBH, diameter of breast height, is that the toony size ish? and the chemical response in the bark that is actually killing off EAB larvae in In some of the bioassay work that's being done. So it's pretty, pretty interesting how, how it sort of fights back against against DAB.

Meredith 33:31

Okay, perfect. And I think we're going to move towards wrapping this up, but are there any, I guess, on that note, you're finding out how resilient it is, but have there been any, I guess, kind of. Like success stories that you'd like to share

Heather 33:47

I guess our, our own success story is just being able to, to get funding to be able to work on this. And hopefully that will continue. And yeah, just finding the lingering ash and, and that we have actually in the field been able to. To find some that we do want to to be able to propagate, move forward with that. And the, the interest that we're getting actually within the, the rallying of the research communities that are really excited about this and also the landowners in public that we talked to that, that seemed to be really excited about black ash recovery and working with this species. So it's just, I feel like that is all a success and will all lead towards concerted efforts and, and hopefully ultimately successful recovery of, of black ash long term.

Meredith 34:35

amazing. And if you could have just like one takeaway, everybody just understood about Ash or knew what would you want it to be closing note.

Nina Hunt 34:46

I guess I would say, like. It is a species at risk that I think is hiding in plain sight. I, I think it's, it's out there. And we might eventually get to the point where we have to prioritize because there's too many sites to go to. But I just, I think there's not enough boots on the ground looking for it. So,

Heather 35:06

So we want to hear about your black ash.

Nina Hunt 35:08

Yes.

Meredith 35:11

go download INET or TreeSnap. And get it well, it's winter. So maybe work on your tree scar, your leaf scar ID, but like definitely in the spring, get out to some swamps and maybe you'll see some orchids too.

Heather 35:25

Bonus. Nice.

35:28

And that's a wrap on this episode with Black Ash and Nina Hunt and Heather Zurbrig. A massive thank you to both of them for taking the time to chat with me. And if you loved this episode. Please subscribe and leave us a review. It helps rarefied reach more people who care about the planet's rarest creatures. And don't forget to follow us on Instagram at rarefied. pod and sign up for our newsletter on our website for updates and behind the scenes content. Next episode, we'll be celebrating world whale day just a little bit early. You're not going to want to miss it. So until then, get out there and explore the wild because every species has a story and every one of us can make a difference. Thanks for listening. And until next time, happy trails