The Tölt Tales Fika - Catherine Holland-Bax

For this Christmas special, we talked to Catherine Holland-Bax, author of the book "Little Viking Horse". Catherine shares how Fleygur, the horse of her late husband Roger, became an inspiration to write a book about adventures from the perspective of an Icelandic horse. 

Ariane read this book in one sitting, being hooked on the trust and friendship transpiring to the reader. Catherine understands perfectly to take you with on the experiences of Fleygur.

We hope you enjoy this episode as much as we did recording it and can recommend to read the book.

https://littlevikinghorse.com/our-story/

https://littlevikinghorse.com/the-book/

https://eponawise.com/little-viking-horse

Music by Cob.
Follow us on Instagram and Facebook, @the_toelt_tales.

Transcript

Ariane: 0:00

Come ride with us, Fika with The Tölt Tales Podcast. And our guest today is Catherine Holland-Bax. She's an author, and we invited her because she has a really nice book published roughly a year ago, I think, called The Little Viking Horse, about an Icelandic horse called Fleygur. And we thought it is a really nice opportunity for us to show another side of the Icelandic horse world, not just superstars in the riding, but also superstars in the book world. So here we have Catherine now. And welcome Catherine.

Catherine: 0:55

Thank you.

Ariane: 0:55

And thank you for doing this with us.

Catherine: 0:57

Oh, it's my pleasure.

Ariane: 0:59

Can you maybe just briefly introduce yourself? Who are you? Where are you from? Where are you sitting just now?

Catherine: 1:09

Okay.

Ariane: 1:09

Yes.

Catherine: 1:09

So yeah, so I'm Catherine. I live now in Shropshire in England. So that's quite central to England. It's the least populated county in the whole of England. So it's quite a rural area. But I was born in Wales. So I'm definitely Welsh at heart, even though I'm now living in England. And I'm living in a really old cottage just on the edge of a village in Shropshire. And I do, I know you're probably going to ask me about this, but I do use lots of my surroundings as settings for my books and stories.

Ariane: 1:49

I'm always curious. So why Icelandic horses? And do you have an Icelandic horse? Do you have more Icelandic horses?

Catherine: 1:59

Why Icelandic horses? Well, it dates back quite a long time really. So I met my very first Icelandic horse in Iceland in 2008. In the few years before that, I was doing a lot of kind of adventure holidays. So I was going mountain biking in the Atlas Mountains in Morocco and walking in Mongolia and things like that. And I went to Cuba on a cycling holiday. I know this doesn't seem like it's about the Icelandic horse, but it is really. I went to Cuba on a cycling holiday and on the second day I had a really very nasty accident. And I broke bones and tore ligaments and all sorts of things. And I won't go into the whole story of that, but when I eventually got home, I was pretty bruised and beaten up really. And it was one of those moments that made me think, you know, what is it I really want to do? And I thought, I really want to start horse riding again, because I hadn't ridden much since I was a teenager, really. And I was browsing through a holiday, an adventure holiday brochure. I think it was called In The Saddle, which is a UK company. And there was a picture of a woman riding an Icelandic horse through a river in Iceland. I don't think I'd ever... I don't remember hearing about Icelandic horses before that, but I instantly was like, that's where I'm going. So about six months after restarting riding, I booked on a holiday with Hestasport in the north of Iceland. And I rode a horse called Mausa for my first horse, and then several others during the week that I was there, and I was totally hooked. Totally and utterly hooked. I thought they were fantastic creatures, and I dreamt and fantasized about having one of my own ever since then.

Ariane: 3:54

I can absolutely relate to that. So now you have Icelandic horses yourself.

Catherine: 4:01

Yeah, I do.

Ariane: 4:02

Yeah.

Catherine: 4:02

So a couple of years later, I met my husband, who sadly died now, and I persuaded him that Icelandic horses were absolutely fantastic as well. And we sought some out in the UK to visit, and we went on holiday to Iceland together and rode together. And eventually, we bought our first Icelandic horse, who was Flegur, who's the star of the book. And then shortly after that, another horse who's actually related to Flegur, is Fipa, he's my Palomino, he's 18 now, he's my main riding horse. And a couple of years after we bought Flegur, the guy who owned him called us and said, would you take my mare as well? Because he was having to give up all together. So we got to reunite Flegur and Gidea who also, or Gistea, I think it's correctly pronounced, I think, who also appears in the story. We got to reunite them after two years apart, which was quite sweet. Yeah, I did have another Icelandic horse for a while, which we bought just less than a year before Roger died and Jandi, or Dinandi. And, but he, after Roger died, he went to some friends of mine because I was on my own and I had four Icelandic horses and it was a bit much really. So I've got now Fleygur who's 26, Roger's horse, and Svipa, the Palomino I mentioned. And my mare, Gidea, sadly was put down a couple of years ago, but I've got another mare called Dana who came to me a couple of years ago in a bit of a bad way and I've kind of rehabilitated her and she's now back riding. So I've got three and then I persuaded a friend who lives close to me, that Icelandic horses were wonderful and she's got one as well. So there's a herd of four outside my sitting room window, which is rather nice.

Ariane: 6:06

This is super cool. And you probably agree with me, you tend to accumulate them. You start with one and somehow it becomes a herd.

Catherine: 6:17

Absolutely. I always say to people, you've got to see these Icelandic horses, you've got to have an Icelandic horse, but be really careful because they're collectible.

Ariane: 6:26

Yes, they are. Everybody that we talked to so far, it's like we have maybe two, three and then it explodes and yeah. This is how it happened.

Catherine: 6:39

Even though I know, even the two riding horses I've got, because of the other things that I do in my life, I mean, I'm a very undemanding rider of them, really. They have a very nice life just ambling around the lanes here. But two is quite a challenge for me to keep going. But even then, I can't help myself when I see other horses go, I'd really like that one. That one would fit in well with my herd. I have to stop myself.

Ariane: 7:08

Yeah, I know that feeling. But you are an author, right? So you write books and The Little Viking Horse, is it your first book?

Catherine: 7:19

Yes, I actually published it, I think it was four years ago now. Oh wow. Yeah, it's time flies. Yeah, I've came to writing later. I worked in public services most of my career. Well, I still am really, but I worked in social work and in the probation service with offenders and working at quite senior levels. After Roger died, you kind of go through these, what am I doing with my life things? Yeah, and I took some time out and I mean, this sort of goes to how I came to write that particular book really. But I had a Facebook page with Fleygur on called Little Viking Horse because Facebook was really kind of taking off. And I just used to post pictures more or less every day with funny little things that I thought you might be thinking or saying. And several people started saying somebody should be writing a children's book, you know, and so eventually I took that seriously and actually started to write the book. So that's how I got into it really. And then I had the opportunity to send some of my writing to a woman called Imogen Cooper, who's an award-winning children's book editor, who also has, I was going to say, an Icelandic horse. Well, it was one when I met her, but I think she's got three now.

Ariane: 8:42

Yeah, again, accumulating them.

Catherine: 8:44

And she runs an organization called the Goldilag Academy, who coaches aspiring children's writers. And so I worked on Little Viking Horse with her guidance as an editor. And that's how I kind of learnt the craft of writing. So yeah, it was the very first one. I've got a second book out now and I've got a few others that I'm thinking of. But yes, it was my first book. And I think not many, well, not many, a lot of authors don't publish, don't have their first book published or not straight away anyway, because you're learning the craft. But because this story was so personal to me and I wanted it out there, and I wanted it out there whilst I still had Fleygur with me as well, I decided to publish it myself. And so although I did have some interest from a publisher, which made me kind of wobble a bit and go, oh, maybe I should go the traditional route. In the end, I decided to publish it myself, and I'm very glad I did, because it gave me complete creative control. I worked with a couple of people to design the cover, and a friend of mine, who's also got Icelandic horses, took the photograph for the front cover. And it meant I could get it out there more quickly. And because I already had the following on the Little Viking Horse Facebook page, there was already a small market.

Ariane: 10:17

Like a market, yeah?

Catherine: 10:18

Yeah, there was. So I sold quite a few books quite quickly when it first came out, which was very pleasing. So now I work part-time for the National Health Service in England. I sit on one of the boards of the local hospital. I'm also a carer for my mum. And then I write children's books on the side. So I kind of got three things that I try to fit in as well as riding the horses.

Ariane: 10:43

Plus the horses, exactly. So full-time job all the time. You keep yourself busy. When you sent me the book and I started reading, and the first two, three pages, I was already hooked, but I didn't really have time and I felt like, ah, should I? And then I found the time to sit down and I read it in one go. I didn't even need the bookmark because I was so, like, it really spoke to me. And I hope that other people will read your book and have read your book and feel the same. I was really, so many emotions were running through my head. It was, I really appreciated your book. This is why I directly gave it to my mom. I was like, you need to read it. It's such a nice book. If you say it could be a children's book, it spoke to me, even though I'm 42 now.

Catherine: 11:40

Yeah, well, you might say I'm bound to say this because I write books that are accessible to children, but I think some of the best literature is children's books. It's actually really hard to write very good children's books because you have to be so focused and so concise and so thoughtful about the language. So I have had feedback from a lot of adult readers on Little Viking Horse that they also enjoyed it. And I think particularly with my second book, I like to think that I'm writing for children and adults, if you're interested in the subject. So I'm really pleased to hear your feedback. That's so lovely. It's like music to my heart.

Ariane: 12:24

I really enjoyed it and I'm looking forward to it. I will see that I find time to also read your latest book, The Badger Resistance Army. So just let me put it out there. And everybody who listens to this episode, you can follow Catherine obviously on Facebook and also on Instagram. And we will put the links to her social media and her website as well. You have a website on the description of the episode. So you will find all the information. Okay, but then we dive in. We have some questions. How did you get the inspiration to write the book, actually? And yeah, maybe you can continue on this.

Catherine: 13:05

Yeah. So as I said, I had a well, what happened first was Roger and I had three and then four Icelandic horses, and we'd often go to the field together. And I don't know why I started doing this, but I started voicing over what I thought Fleygur was thinking as we were coming to the field. And Roger would always be in stitches laughing, because I would just be putting this voice on him. But people in Britain will know of a broadcaster from many years ago called Johnny Morris. I don't know that it spread any wider, but he used to voice over the zoo animals. And so I think that was where my idea came from. And it was because that I did that, that Roger started encouraging me to set up the Facebook page or start writing something. And so that's really how it came about. So I set up the Facebook page just for a laugh. I didn't mean for it to kind of take off, you know. And in no time I had like, well, most of my friends started following it, obviously. And then it gradually spread around the Icelandic horse community in the UK, which is relatively small compared to a lot of countries.

Ariane: 14:22

Yeah.

Catherine: 14:23

And then before I knew it, I had 70 followers and then 700 and then, you know, and people were, and I've been writing this blog for years now, it must be 12 years, I would think. So there are people who've been following Fleygur and by default in the later years after when Roger died, my story for over 10 years, which is quite incredible really. So that's how the story came about. But in terms of the actual book itself and the actual story, I wanted to write through the eyes of the animal, through the eyes of the horse. Obviously, I'm imagining and making up what I think they might think. And because you're writing a children's story, you've got to anthropomorphize them to some extent. So you give them some human emotions and human thoughts.

Ariane: 15:21

Absolutely, yeah.

Catherine: 15:22

But I try to keep it very horse like. So even when something very emotional happens for the boy in the story, the horse is part of that. And then he goes, oh, I think I'll go and eat now. Because that's what horse is mostly thinking about. So I try to keep them very, very, very horse like.

Ariane: 15:42

So how did you develop? Because the story from Fleygur, it starts really nice. And then it takes a turn where he does not feel super comfortable in the situation that he is in his surrounding, in the people, humans that he's interacting with or has to interact with. And how did you develop this? This is not how Fleygur really had his upbringing, or is it some kind of, I mean, we are talking a lot about animal welfare at the moment, horse welfare, and those topics that are in your book, they're like, they're brought to the children or to the reader in a very sensitive way, which I really appreciate it, but it makes you aware of what is happening actually, and that you need to think about what is happening inside the horse's mind as well, not just what you want to achieve.

Catherine: 16:39

Yeah, exactly. I mean, so the real Fleygur, fortunately for him, did not have that. He did not have the misfortune to meet the Mr. Jones character in the book. We got him from a very devoted and very kind owner, and he got him direct from the breeder, a very reputable breeder in the UK. So I know he didn't have those experiences. But when you're writing any story, and particularly a kid's story, well, any story really, your hero has to have a major challenge. You have to have that drama in there, and it was a golden opportunity to exactly, as you say, draw out some of the things that can happen to horses. If we completely lose the perspective of the animal, and if the aspiration for sport achievement, or whatever it is you want to do, it doesn't necessarily have to be horse sport, overrides any thoughts of the horse's feeling. So I very deliberately wanted to show how ignoring the horse as a sentient being, so it's not a piece of equipment, it's not just something we own, it's a sentient being. How being unaware of that, I mean, you could say that the Mr. Jones character that I created, I mean, the kids that I've spoken to when I went to a local school, they said, why is Mr. Jones so horrible? And you could say, well, this is an evil man, but also I think it comes through in the story. He's thoughtless, he's ignorant of the horses and he's thoughtless. And I think that there's a lot of that. So I wanted to share all of that. And of course, you have to have that bit in the story so that later on, the boy Roger and the horse can come together. But I would say that almost all of the little things that I have happened in the book, I have either seen happen myself to horses, not necessarily Icelandic horses, but some, but to horses in this country, or Roger told me about them, or somebody else had told me something. So I think there's almost nothing in there that I've totally made up. Even the rather horrendous scene where Mr. Jones goes at the horse's face with a whip. You know, these are all things that I've seen. And I just wanted to put them on the page and say, this happens, you know, this happens to horses.

Ariane: 19:26

Yes. And I was thinking the same. It is, if readers approach you and tell you, like especially kids, how can this person be so horrible? It is unfortunately the truth. It is happening and it can be in principle anybody. You do not know who Mr. Jones is. Sometimes they put on a mask in public and in the back, it is still happening. And I agree, people, I've seen this as well and I'm always shocked.

Catherine: 19:59

Yeah. It is, I mean, what I did with Mr. Jones was I picked a number of things I'd seen and a number of characters that I'd met and put them all into one. I mean, I have created him a backstory. I know why he's like that. And, you know, there may be a future book where some of that comes out. But, you know, he, yeah, so I put all that together. But can I just add to that? That, as you will know, later in the story, when Roger and Flegur kind of come together, you know, Roger's a kind, thoughtful child, but he makes mistakes too.

Ariane: 20:38

Absolutely.

Catherine: 20:39

And I wanted to also say that. And some of the little things that happen in the story, again, they're either things that my Roger did with Flegur or me. You know, there's a scene, I don't think I'm doing any spoilers here, but there's a scene where I have Flegur refusing to, trying to rush off, and the boy is trying to hold him still, and he's trying to make him stand completely still. And he won't, because he can't contain himself, because he's so anxious. And every time he moves, the boy is making him stand until eventually the horse starts to tremble, and then the boy gets off. That was me. I did that. I did that. And afterwards, I realized that what was going to happen if I carried on like that is the horse was just going to explode, because he was so... And I had to question myself, why am I insisting that he stands exactly still right at the moment when his energy is... I'd have been better off going around in a circle walking, or just getting off and leading him for a while until he calmed down. So we all make mistakes, or we all do things that we can reflect on, and all of that has gone into the story.

Ariane: 21:54

And I absolutely agree. I also thought about the mistakes that I already made in my horse life, and things that I say, like, frankly speaking, what the fuck were I thinking? But I was clearly not thinking in a good way. But I think it's always good that you improve, that you work on yourself. You never cease to learn, actually, and to become a better person and a better rider for your horse. So I think that is something that we learned also now over the several podcasts that we did now, that people say, you never stop learning. You always, as soon as you stop trying to be better, that is a big mistake. You need to continue to improve yourself for the horse, for your interaction with this animal. So I think that is really a takeaway also from your book. You can become better, you can make mistakes, but you need to improve yourself all the time.

Catherine: 23:01

Yeah, thank you for that. Some of the comments that I did get when the book first came out from riders that I know were they were really lovely because people said things like you, you know, and these were people that I already thought well of in terms of how they think about their horses. And I overheard somebody saying to a friend, you know, oh, it's really made me think about how I relate to my horse. And I was like, oh, it's like that is what exactly what I wanted to achieve, really, is just to have people think a little bit more. And hopefully, because because it's aimed at younger readers, kind of get them get them well, they're young, sort of thing.

Ariane: 23:43

Yes, that's true. Yeah. And we have also then we talked about trust. Trust is a big thing and healing. And I guess, how would you describe like the trust and the healing that you describe a bit in the book with Fleygur and?

Catherine: 24:02

Yeah, it's, oh, that's really, that's a really deep question. I mean, there are multiple layers to that answer for me, really, because when I, so let's do the one layer first. So, when I began writing this book, my Roger was still alive. So, he heard the first few chapters, you know, I would read it to him when I got home from work, I'd write it on the train coming home from work. And so, he heard the very beginnings of it. But I didn't actually get to sit and actually write the book or work on the book until probably nearly a year after he died. So, there was that whole journey for me in terms of, and obviously, I've named the boy in the story after him, and there are elements of Roger in the story. So, it was a whole kind of process for me. And also, a process of Roger's horse becoming mine, because that's also a very, that's been a very strange feeling. So, for very, very many years, he still is Roger's horse, really. But I actually now have owned Flegur for longer than Roger did, because it's quite a few years now. So, yeah, so there was that whole going through that process. Yeah, well, I think Icelandic horses have a really special character about them. So, they're very calming to be around. And I've seen this a lot with people who come and see the horses where I am, people who have said they're frightened of other horses. But when they stand in the field with the Icelandics for a while, that seems to disappear because they've just got this presence, this stillness about them. I mean, not every single horse in every situation, obviously, but generally as a breed, I find them to be that way.

Ariane: 25:57

Yeah, I agree.

Catherine: 25:59

There's a lot, and again, in the story I wrote about Fleygur putting his nose into the boy's hands. That's what he did, that's what Fleygur did with me when I went and sat in the field and cried. And I've had stories from friends who've relate similar experiences, not every horse, but some of the horses, they seem particularly sort of tuned in, they'll kind of sense your energy, and then come over and just standing with them just can be healing. I have to say my other horse, Fripper, a bit less so because he's like a toddler, he puts his nose in everything, he tips the water buckets over, he shoves me if I stand in front of him for too long. He's not quite as calming, but he can be, like all the others, he can be, so yeah.

Ariane: 26:58

Nui can be also like this, so while I'm stressed, he can calm me down. But otherwise, when I'm careless or I talk to people, he demands all the energy from me in that sense. And he also throws stuff around. Now, his newest trend is that he opens the gate, the electric wired gates with his teeth, because that's a new thing.

Catherine: 27:27

Yeah, they're very clever. I mean, Fleygur, the others can't quite do this. They try, but Fleygur spends quite a lot of time with his rope finding the loose end that I've tied with the emergency slipknot and then pulls it to untie himself. Yeah, and if I turn around and look at him while he's doing it, he stops until I look away again. And I'm thinking, this is just incredible.

Ariane: 27:51

You didn't see anything.

Catherine: 27:53

Nothing going on here, yeah. But just on the kind of healing point again, I think in the book, I also wanted to show how horses can kind of bring people together as well. So, you know, you've got the character, Jess, who teases Roger and is quite cruel. But actually, there's a moment where Fleygur is the catalyst that brings them together, and Roger sees Jess' vulnerability in that moment. So I wanted the book to go beyond our relationship with horses and how horses might think, to speak to people about empathy with each other, even if, and this is kind of hard, isn't it? I find it hard anyway, even if somebody is being mean or cruel, it's just to ask the question, what might be behind that? And, you know, is there a way to reach people? So I'm sounding very philosophical now, but I wanted the book to do that too. So yes, I want to promote empathy for horses and other animals, but also empathy for each other.

Ariane: 29:01

Yeah, it is very inclusive in that sense, I think. And that is also something that Lionel and I experience. I mean, we're both not from Sweden, we are located in Sweden, and having the Icelandic Horses opened so many doors for us to make friends, to make Swedish friends with the Icelandic Horses, we have met so many lovely people, now with the podcast even more, but already before, these horses make you so open and so you connect with the horses and you connect with each other. And this is also something with Jess, that is like something that I really appreciated also in the book because I already had experiences like this where people are a bit like, not so easy to approach. And then with the horses, they open up and show their vulnerability.

Catherine: 29:56

Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. And you were just talking about community there. And as I said, the Icelandic horse community in the UK is relatively small. I think we've got around about a thousand Icelandic horses. And we're very spread out. I know by some people's standards, we're not a big country, but for a relatively small number of people, we're quite rightly spread. So we don't have regional or local Icelandic horse shows, which I know some countries have. We literally have our British Championships sub-stroke summer show and one or two others, maybe, and then a few clinics that people put on. So it's very, I think readers who are not from the UK, who read the story might wonder how Roger and Flegger got to go to the British Championships so easily. Well, it's because here, it's a very broad church. You enter at the lower classes and there isn't a qualifying round, because if we did that, the classes would be three people or something.

Ariane: 30:59

It's the same for France.

Catherine: 31:03

Same for France, yeah. But what was nice for the people in the UK who read the story is, the scene where I do have them going to a local show, they all recognized exactly where it was. They all knew the place that I'd set it, because we all went there twice a year, because it was just a great place to go. And the community, the friends that you reconnected with, and the horses as well, actually. There's a little scene where I have Fleygur arrive at a show, and he's paddocked next to a horse called Red, who is actually a horse, belongs to a friend of mine. And Red just sort of says, Oh, hello, good to see you. And that is Red. You know, he's very self-contained horse. He always looks at my horse to say, I recognize you, but he doesn't make a big fuss. You know, so I wrote all of those little things in, all the little moments, the loose horse scenario where we're all shouting loose horse as the horse careers across the show ground, you know. They're all things that happened at those shows. So for the people in the UK who went there, I think that was a particularly enjoyable chapter for them because they could all kind of reminisce about that show that we went to. But I have a huge number of friends now that I would not otherwise have met, let alone been really close friends with if it hadn't been for the Icelandic Horses.

Ariane: 32:37

Pace and Tölt, we need to talk about this, because this is actually something that puts a difference between the English breed and the Icelandic horse.

Catherine: 32:51

Yeah, there's a lot of similarities, but yeah, the gates are special. And obviously, they profile quite highly in the book, especially right at the beginning, because I needed to have that in. Well, A, because they're just special to the Icelandic horse, and it's what makes them so different. And also because, otherwise, why am I writing particularly about an Icelandic horse in the UK? So I had to get the kind of Tölt and everything in there quite quickly. It was quite a challenge really to put it into a kind of story that wasn't going to disengage people who didn't already know about Icelandic horses. I can't tell you how many drafts I went through, trying to hone down what the Tölt was and why they were struggling with it or why they were doing it in a particular way. Yeah. Without kind of losing your general reader, who might not even be particularly into horses, never mind Icelandic horses. But I am quite pleased that quite a few of the reviews do say, I've learned so much about Icelandic horses, and oh, I didn't know about this gate before. And that was partly why a friend of mine, Mick Rushton, who has rather more horses, Icelandic horses than I do. I couldn't tell you how many at the moment. She'll laugh when she hears this. But she drew the illustrations that are in the book, and including the kind of gate map, which I now have printed on sweatshirts and things. Because I wanted to bring that alive for people that didn't know. And I don't know, you've probably experienced this as well, but a little while ago, I had a saddle fitter out. I've done it with other people who've come out to see the horses as well. Particularly when Fleygur was still being ridden, because his tolt, he had a very, an excellent four-beat tolt. Just, you barely had to do anything. You just ask him to go forward a bit faster, and he'd do this lovely tolt. He wasn't a big, a big high leg lifter, but personally, I think that's overrated. Beat comes first. Beat and comfort of the horse. So he was quite easy to tolt. So I could literally shout instructions kind of up the road and get him to come back towards us. And they'd experienced the tolt. And I don't know if you have a same saying, but we say here in the UK, they have their tolt grin. They just can't stop grinning because it's like, wow, you know. And so Flegger's introduced a lot of people to the tolt, a lot, yeah.

Ariane: 35:28

Yeah, no, but this is also, I think the first time I sat on a horse, tilting really clear-beated, I was just like, I couldn't stop smiling. You go in and sometimes also in a speed that you thought like, that speed on another horse is either trot, which I do not much prefer, or canter and then, or gallop and that is just something else. But you go in this fast-tempo tölt and pace is something else additionally, but in this fast-tempo tölt and you just, it doesn't matter how high they throw their legs, but I agree with you, it needs to be comfortable for the horse, for you and clear-beated and it's just, you sit there and you can't stop smiling. It's amazing.

Catherine: 36:17

But there is a funny side to that, well, certainly for me anyway, is that Sveepa, who I mentioned earlier, I got him when he was six and the breeder was very straight with me. She said, he doesn't really trot very well. He doesn't trot under saddle and he didn't, I couldn't, he had nice tolt. He was a little bit pacey, but he was only young. He had a nice tolt and he was a very pretty horse and it was great, but it took two years for me to get him to trot reliably under saddle. And I remember, because I did use to enter very low level classes in some of the competitions. And the very first time that I managed to get him to trot the whole way around an oval track, because I could trot the straight sides. But as soon as we hit the corner or as soon as he got a little bit tense, or that would the trot would be gone. And the very first time I made the whole way around the oval track, I could hear all my friends cheering. We probably scored 2.5 or something, but it didn't matter. We got trot. I just find that so amusing that we got the horses because, well, because of their special natures, but because of the tolt and the pace. And then we're really excited when we get trot.

Ariane: 37:36

You mentioned it briefly several times. You might have more about Fleygur and there might be another book.

Catherine: 37:46

Yes.

Ariane: 37:46

Or a potential for another book. Can you just spoil, tease us a bit? Is it something that you started on already?

Catherine: 37:56

I have just started a Little Viking Horse book too, yes. I mean, I feel obliged to sort of put out a warning. I'm not an incredibly prolific writer, so this may take some time to come to fruition. But I'm going to do my best to work on it a lot this year, this coming year. Yeah, Little Viking Horse book too, which will be called Fleygur's Race to the Rescue. So it will have another Icelandic horse in it with him. I've decided to write my swooper into the story. And I won't give too much way, but Jess makes a reappearance as well from the first book, as do one or two other of the peripheral characters. But yes, I have Roger and Flegur, as the title implies, involved in some rescuing of other horses, but I'm not willing to give away more than that.

Ariane: 38:53

No, no, don't buy too much, but I'm looking forward to it.

Catherine: 38:58

So that one I will be also drawing on themes of kind of horse welfare and empathy and diversity in its broadest sense, so, you know, human diversity as well. But I do have another Little Viking Horse adventure in my mind that I've had for quite a long time, which the working title is A Little Viking Mare. And that would be Gidya's story. Gidya is in the first book. That was my first Icelandic mare. And I don't really know exactly where that story will go yet, but I do have the idea that it starts in Iceland. So of course, I would have to make a field trip in order to write that.

Ariane: 39:47

Of course, yeah. So absolutely. Maybe you do it next year and we meet at Landsport.

Catherine: 39:57

Oh yes, that would be good, yes.

Ariane: 39:59

And do some chatting also then with Christine, and she can maybe give you some more background in the history museum for the Icelandic war.

Catherine: 40:08

Oh, that would be fantastic, yeah. Maybe I could sneak a few copies of my book into my suitcase as well, and see if I can flog a few while I'm there.

Ariane: 40:18

Yes, absolutely. I honestly enjoyed it so much reading this book, and I can highly recommend to everybody interested in Icelandic horses, interested in horses, but also having children, having not children. I really enjoyed this book. The Badger Resistance Army. Do you want to maybe mention what it's about, even though it's not about Icelandic horses, but we can still, I think, also promote it here.

Catherine: 40:48

So my second book, which was published this year, yeah, this year, in June this year, is the Badger Resistance Army. And that's, yes, it's not about Icelandic horses, but it's another story told through the eyes of an animal. So I would characterize it as an eco-adventure. And it's a bit of, there's a little bit of magical realism in it. So in it, I've imagined what might happen if badgers decided to fight back against destructive humans, and a 12-year-old girl can hear the animals talking. So there's a, and it's very much set in the countryside around me. And there's a threat to the woodland that the badgers live in. And it's about how they come together to fight that threat. There is, I should say, that for those people who have or are going to read Little Viking Horse, there is a certain little black horse that makes a fleeting appearance in the Badger Resistance Army. Nobody's yet come back to me and said, I've spotted Fleygur in the Badger Resistance Army, but he is there, he is there. Just for a little moment.

Ariane: 42:02

I will read and then I can tell you if I found him. Definitely. Super cool. I just want to mention that you can follow Catherine on Facebook, on Instagram. She has a website. We will put all the links in the description of the episode. And of course, you can follow us on Instagram and Facebook for new stories, updates. Comment on the episode. Please also share on Facebook, Instagram. If you like something, if you have any kind of ideas for us. And with this, we come back very soon with another episode. Until then, goodbye Catherine.

Catherine: 42:42

Goodbye. Thank you.