A Dream-Eating ADHD Cryptid And A Bit Of Séancing

After some back and forth with the Uno Cards, Jess goes first again! (Huzzah, Hids says!) Jess’ topic this episode is one of our favorite recurring cards: CRYPTIDS! We learn a bit about the Baku, a Japanese creature that eats nightmares! But be careful, if they’re really hungry they’ll eat your hopes and dreams, too!

Hids gives us a look at the rise of Spiritualism in America during and after the Civil War and into the early 1900s. The rise in industrialism, innovations in science and photography and a terrible war with an incredible loss of life on a level never before seen by the people of the time led to a need for closure and solace.

Jess' Sources:

https://hyakumonogatari.com/2012/10/20/baku-the-dream-eater/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baku_(mythology)

https://mythus.fandom.com/wiki/Baku

https://www.ancient-origins.net/myths-legends-asia/baku-legend-dream-eater-002383

https://yokai.com/baku/?srsltid=AfmBOoqB2TRlO6mShECRlsWmoGWAr2i--N8-gxtePW2F1q5IkcYiN9QA

Hids' Sources:

https://www.historyisnowmagazine.com/blog/2021/10/18/the-rise-of-spiritualism-in-19th-century-america

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritualism_(movement)

https://www.americanhauntingsink.com/spiritualism

https://blogs.loc.gov/loc/2020/10/hollywood-houdini-and-the-halloween-seance-of-1936/

https://capemaymag.com/arts-and-entertainment/victorian-vignette/victorian-spiritualism/

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Okay. Yeah, we're good. I still haven't I still haven't burped, but we'll see. It might happen. Cool, cool, cool. In the in the no edit podcast. Yeah, it's fine. This is the the the part in the beginning, and then the music will happen right now.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

I may try it one more time. It's a podcast, just to be listening to it's a podcast.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

This is oh wow, welcome to our podcast. This is episode nineteen, season two of Jess and Hits Make a Podcast, and I'm Jess. I'm Hids. And um we made a podcast. It is currently 839 on Wednesday night p.m. We have to release this um at midnight. Three hours and 21 minutes from now.

SPEAKER_05 1:35

See, we did this thing where we went to every other week to have more time.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Yeah, but then like work has I'm okay. I feel like we use work being insane as an excuse a lot.

SPEAKER_05 1:47

But the last honestly, the last year and a half of work has been. It has been crazy. But yeah and a half. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:56

Yeah. Um but anyway, also that whole like procrastination.

SPEAKER_01 2:02

Summer school started. Oh yeah. And summer school. Trying to get into the massage therapy program for fall has been insane. And I've had to do like vaccinations in junk. And that kind of wiped me out.

SPEAKER_03 2:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

It wiped me out yesterday, anyway, which is when we were gonna record. But anyway. So we're recording right now, but that's okay because it's gonna be um it's gonna be fun. It's gonna be a fun episode, and we won't have to edit it. No, it's gonna be our professionals.

SPEAKER_05 2:36

We're pros. We are absolute professionals. Yeah. So what's new? Um, we got the new X Love album. And it's it's that could have been a war member, but yeah. Well, the music the album, like you have been able to listen to it online for a while now. But we got the physical albums in our hands today. And yes, I said albums because there were four versions. Because that's how K-pop works apparently. Um K-pop knows how to market like it can market the heck. I mean, I would buy everything I listened to on album if it came with all the stuff that a K-pop album came with.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

Yeah, American artists, get with it. Your albums would be so much cooler if you had a lot of stuff with it, not just a little jewel CD case.

SPEAKER_05 3:25

$26 for a CD. No, $26 for a CD and like photo cards and photo albums and little messages on cards and bookmarks and well, the stickers stick stickers and keychains. All the things. I would spend so much money on music.

SPEAKER_01 3:43

Yeah. And then like all four of the album, like versions of the albums that X Love just released, if you flip them over and put them all together, it makes a chess board.

SPEAKER_05 3:56

Which is fabulous.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

Yeah. So we had to get the set. Yeah. Because we obviously play so much chess.

SPEAKER_05 4:02

I literally have not played chess in probably 20 years.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

I don't know how to play chess.

SPEAKER_05 4:07

I used to play quite a bit, actually. Nerds. Actually, I know. It's I can't help it. I went through a phase where uh I played chess. I wasn't I mean, I wasn't bad, but I wasn't like great at it or anything. Okay. Never would have went to tournament. It was fun.

SPEAKER_04 4:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 4:22

Anyway.

SPEAKER_04 4:24

How about that podcast?

SPEAKER_01 4:25

I'm just one of those people that automatically thinks people who play chess are pretentious jerks.

SPEAKER_04 4:30

So okay. Wow.

SPEAKER_05 4:34

Stereotype.

SPEAKER_03 4:36

Yeah, I know. But uh I mean, I can be a pretentious jerk if you'd like me to. No. I've been around enough of them, apparently.

SPEAKER_04 4:45

Oh no, it's true. People who play chess.

unknown 4:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:49

All the people I used to play chess with were kind of pretentious jerks.

SPEAKER_03 4:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:53

Aw.

SPEAKER_03 4:54

Oh well. There you go.

SPEAKER_01 4:55

I mean, the stereotype exists for a reason. I'm most stereotypes do. Yeah.

unknown 5:01

Which is the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

I'm sorry. I give up. No, I'm just kidding. I apologize to any of our listeners who play chess. No, I think people who play chess, I mean, there is that stereotype that that but also like I do recognize it's skill and strategy and stuff, and that that kind of game intrigues me, but I have no interest in learning.

SPEAKER_05 5:20

So I um lose the focus on it really quick. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

Uh anyway.

SPEAKER_03 5:30

So good news.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

What? I don't have tuberculosis.

SPEAKER_05 5:35

Congratulations. Yeah. I was really hoping that you would get a diagnosis so we could be sent to the countryside for fresh air.

SPEAKER_01 5:42

Yeah, like they used to do in the olden days. So um to clarify, one of the things I had to do to get into the massage therapy program is do a TB skin test, which is basically you go in and they inject you with something, and then you go back within 48 hours and they look at your arm where at the injection site and say, Okay, cool, and sign a paper and give it to you. And apparently, I don't have tuberculosis. I don't really know how any of that works. But I mean it's probably a culture. And if it's if it's a it's a culture that needs time to grow. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:24

And if it reacts, you have it. But like I I mean.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

Yeah, no reactions look like you can't even tell. You can't even see the little needle prick. It was like somewhere. Somewhere. Right there.

SPEAKER_04 6:37

What's going on with your other arm though? I showed him the wrong arm.

SPEAKER_01 6:44

Oh no. I got the consumption.

SPEAKER_02 6:52

Oh man.

SPEAKER_01 6:53

Anyway, I was just a little miffed about that because today was my return appointment and literally walked in, say, I'm here, I I'm here to, you know, get that TB test ready. It's a 30-minute drive. It's a 30-minute drive, first of all, because you have to go to a certain office. And yep, they just the the nurse came out into the lobby and looked at it and said, Okay, cool, and signed a thing and dated it and handed it to me and said, I'm good to go. And I'm like, I drove 30 minutes for that on a car that really, really doesn't like to drive 30 minutes at a time. So, like that was like an hour of driving time. Um my poor little car doesn't like that. Yeah. So it could have just been like, okay, we're gonna FaceTime.

SPEAKER_05 7:37

Yeah. Show us your arm. Okay, video. Let's go. That's good. All right. That arm is attached to you. You're not cheating on this test. Anyway, okay. So it's fine. There's a lot of hassle to get into college, apparently.

SPEAKER_01 7:51

Yeah, well, just like massage therapy, I'll be working with people, so you know. Well, yeah. We do want you healthy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:57

So it's good. Oh my gosh. Let's do this. Can you just cut all this in post?

SPEAKER_01 8:04

No, I'm not editing.

SPEAKER_03 8:07

Okay. Um, what do we do now? We draw Uno cards to see who goes first.

SPEAKER_05 8:14

I really like the dice thing better, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

Oh, wait. I think okay, that means I okay, you drew a draw two. Okay. So you have to make it hold on to it and draw again. And you can play that later to force me to draw again if I draw a lower card than you. Higher card goes first.

SPEAKER_03 8:37

Higher card goes first.

SPEAKER_01 8:38

Okay, well, I'm gonna keep that one too.

SPEAKER_03 8:39

Oh my gosh. She just drew a reverse. Okay, I got a seven.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

You're going first.

SPEAKER_05 8:43

Oh, higher card goes first.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

Wait. I just said those words and you repeated them back to me. All right, I don't want to go first.

SPEAKER_05 8:49

I'm gonna reverse it.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

Uh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 8:56

Oh wait, I have cards. This is ridiculous.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

Uh I do I have a random four and an eight. Those are just because I'm holding on to cards that we've already played. Oh, okay. I just mixed my stacks up. It's fine. It's fine. I'll go first. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 9:18

I couldn't figure out why there was an explosion on mine. I realized it's a geyser.

SPEAKER_01 9:23

Yeah, this is the the wilderness deck. It's national parks. Oh, I love them.

SPEAKER_03 9:27

So that's support your national parks. They need your help. It's true. Uh and they're pretty. And they're beautiful. I'm going first. You told me I think you had a short topic, right? I do. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

And I drew the cryptid card. Oh, sweet. I love the cryptid card. Um, and I guess you guys didn't see the dramatic flair I put on that. I pulled out a book.

SPEAKER_04 9:58

This is an audio.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

Plopped it on the table and said, the cryptid card. The cryptid card. So when a child in Japan wakes up shaking from a nightmare, she knows what to do. Hugging her face in her pillow, she whispers three times, Bakusan, come eat my dream. Bakusan, come eat my dream. Bakusan, come eat my dream. I'm talking about the Baku today. BK. But that is adorable. Isn't it so cute? Okay, so this um I've never heard of this. I chose this cryptid because it's in this really cool book that we've had for a long time, uh, called Dungeons and Drawings, an illustrated compendium of creatures. Uh, and you can find it on Amazon. I think that's where we got it. Or at probably at your favorite local bookstore. At your favorite local bookstore, yep. Go ask if they have it. But it's it's this little, it's a cute little illustrated um book of cryptids and like folkloric creatures.

SPEAKER_05 11:00

I forgot that we owned that. Yeah, it's very cute. I we I remember getting it and looking at all the drawings and going, oh my gosh, these are so they're really cute.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

But the drawing, the drawing of the Baku is just adorable. Um, but let me describe this creature and and tell you what it is. So uh they are of Japanese, not of Japanese origin, but they're known in Japanese culture. Um, they're supernatural beings that are said to devour nightmares. According to the legend, they were created by the spare pieces that were left over when the gods finished creating all other animals. So they're this kind of chimera of spare parts.

SPEAKER_05 11:44

It's really cute. It has a little elephant trunk. Is that a tiger tail? Uh well, let me tell you. No, no, that's not tiger. Oh, okay, you're gonna tell me.

SPEAKER_01 11:52

Uh bear, a bear's body, an elephant's trunk, a tiger's paws, an oxen tail, and rhinoceros ears or eyes. So this illustration in the book is slightly different because they gave him a big fluffy tail.

SPEAKER_05 12:06

I was like, that's not an ox tail.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

Yeah, but he does have these kind of giant claws. Super cute. And like the body is super tiny, and he's got this little elephant trunk and big ears, and the tail is like super big and fluffy. It's really cute. Very cute. Um, but yeah, original depictions were uh bear's body, elephant's trunk, tiger paws, oxen tail, rhinoceros ears, or eyes. Uh and despite that appearance, the Baku uh, I mean, that it could be seen as uh a big scary monster. Horrifying scary, yes. They are revered as powerful forces of good and uh seen as one of the holy protectors of mankind. So the creature itself originated in Chinese folklore and became popular in Japan as early as the Muromachi period, which is 14th to 15th century. Okay, so still pretty old, yeah, but uh not of Japanese origin. Uh descriptions and beliefs in the Baku have changed over the years. In ancient Chinese legends, the moe was an animal that was hunted for its pelt. The moe is the giant panda. Oh. Um, like the mythological beast version of the giant panda.

SPEAKER_04 13:38

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Yeah. So in Chinese legends, whoever killed a moe would use a blanket made from the pelt as a talisman or an object with magical powers, which would protect them from evil spirits. The practice evolved over time, and soon the pelt was no longer needed, but an image of the beast was thought to have the power to repel evil spirits. So that's how it started in Chinese folklore. Okay. And before its adaptation to the Japanese sort of dream caretaker creature that that they have, um, an early 17th century Japanese manuscript, the Sankai Ibutsu, describes the Baku as a shy Chinese mythological uh chimera, which protected against pestilence and evil. So no mention of eating nightmares was was included in sort of its list of abilities or whatever. Um but then in a 1791 Japanese wood block illustration, uh there was uh a version of the Baku that was specifically depicted as dream destroying. It's depicted with an elephant's head, tusks, and trunk with horns and tiger's claws. So sort of similar. And you can see it sort of making this transition into what it's known as today. The Baku's description, um, like the chimeric like description is more reminiscent of the like the Chinese chimera.

SPEAKER_04 15:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

Uh yeah. It's all just kind of like. It started with the the mo, the giant panda, which is also like in Chinese folklore had sort of chimera-like properties as well. Um, and has since become the giant panda. Like, I don't I should have researched that part a little bit more, the mo. Um, but I didn't. And then I didn't do it. And then I didn't do it. That's okay though. Uh later in the Meiji period, the writings about the Baku had similar attributes and was also able to devour nightmares. So about that time is when we get the version of the Baku that we have today. So uh like I said, um, the legend has it that a person who wakes up from a bad dream can call out to the baku, but there's a risk in doing this. If you call it to the baku, you have to do it sparingly. Cause if he remains hungry after eating your nightmare, he could also devour your hopes and desires. He could devour the good dreams too. And the effect would be that that person would end up living an empty and unfulfilled life.

SPEAKER_05 16:31

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 16:32

Yeah. So don't call on the baku too much if you have nightmares.

SPEAKER_05 16:35

Okay. So just hold like reserve for the really bad ones.

SPEAKER_01 16:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:39

It seems like if you called on him more, you would fill him up and you wouldn't take your bad dreams.

SPEAKER_01 16:45

Well, I think it's like a like how bad is this one dream that I'm gonna eat? Like it has to be like something really big and bad to call him to make sure you fill him up. It's not like a come back tomorrow and I'll have more for you. It's okay. How much do you have right now? Okay.

SPEAKER_05 17:02

Yeah. I'm gonna remember this the next time I have a nightmare. Okay. How bad is it? Bakusan. Bakusan. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

What is it? Baku san, come eat my dream.

SPEAKER_05 17:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:13

Can I be specific and say, come eat my nightmare? Will that help? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 17:18

I guess it depends on how intelligent the baku is. Hmm. Or like I might just not care. Like I'm gonna eat your nightmare, sure, but if I'm still hungry, I'm I'm gonna eat.

SPEAKER_05 17:31

I'm gonna eat your hopes and dreams. Okay. Darn. I will not do that then. Yeah. Because knowing me, I'll get that Baku who's like hasn't eaten in like a month. Starving. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 17:43

I'm so hungry. Oh my gosh. Someone called me. Let's go.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

Okay, so by the turn of the 20th century, it was pretty common for children in Japan to sleep with the Baku talisman by their bed. Children suffering from nightmares were told to wake up and repeat the following phrase three times. Baku san could meet my dream. Uh on speaking the words, the Baku was believed to enter the child's room and devour the bad the bad dream. And so the kid could go back to sleep and have, you know.

SPEAKER_05 18:16

I honestly think people like how smart is that of the parents. Like Yeah, just like if you wake up from a nightmare, just call the Baku. Do this. He's gonna come at your dream and you go right back to sleep. Yeah. Don't wake mommy and daddy because we worked really hard and we're tired. Yeah. Here's a glass of water.

SPEAKER_03 18:34

And you have to do it quietly too.

SPEAKER_05 18:37

Whisper it into your pillow. That's where the bak san lives. Yeah. No, but that's I'm like, I'm totally not making fun of culture, but I do think like I always try to I always try to think of like where where things come from and like things like where the folklore originally. Yeah, and I'm like, yeah, this is like a really good thing for like this is something I would come up with as a parent. Okay, but when you have that dream, you cannot wake me up. Yeah, yeah. Because I do not like being awakened.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

There's a celestial creature who will come and eat your bad dreams for you. So go talk to them, not me. Love you. Good night. The Baku can also be summoned for protection from bad dreams prior to falling asleep at night. Evil spirits and yokai, which are Japanese like demons, ghosts, all all the bad legends. Uh they fear the Baku and flee from Baku inhabited areas.

unknown 19:35

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

Because of this, health and good luck follow Baku wherever they go. So they're these like kind creatures, but also just very hungry, apparently, which like same. Yeah, I'm nice, but I also get hungry a lot. So yep.

SPEAKER_05 19:58

And then I forget to eat. And then I get hungrier.

unknown 20:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 20:02

I forget to eat still. And then I get it.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

And then I really want to just eat somebody's hopes and dreams because then I just get really, really pissy.

SPEAKER_03 20:09

Wait, does the Baku just have ADHD? Maybe. I forgot to eat. Oh no. Oh crap.

SPEAKER_02 20:18

Yeah. I think that's ADHD Baku.

SPEAKER_01 20:23

I love it. Yeah. Um, so today. Uh, and actually, well, throughout Japanese history, actually, the Baku's written name and image have appeared, uh have been used as symbols of good luck in talismans and charms, and can kind of be seen all over the place. In the old days, it was common to embroider the kanji for baku onto pillows. Kanji is uh Japanese characters. Um, it was common to uh embroider that onto pillows in order to keep away bad dreams, which like I want to do that now. I want a kanji, the kanji for Baku embroidered on a pillow. Okay. Um, it was also commonly carved into the pillars above temple doors and on the columns supporting the temple roofs. Um, and they are only they are one of only a handful of holy creatures honored in that manner.

SPEAKER_02 21:21

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

Yeah. Okay. The the temple thing, probably not the pillow thing.

SPEAKER_05 21:25

Yeah, yeah. I I gotcha, I gotcha. Yeah, it makes sense. That's kind of cool.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

And now today you can find uh modern representations of the Baku um in a lot of places, including Japanese comics. Occasionally the Baku is shown in a form that represents a tapir. Oh, I love tapirs. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:47

So like I had a tapir like my hand at the zoo the last time we went.

SPEAKER_01 21:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:52

It was and then I realized I was like, oh, there's a sign like 10 feet away that says do not put hands here.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

And I was like, but it's so cute. The to pier. Okay. Um neat little thing. Neat fun little thing. I almost said fun fact. Couldn't remember what we say instead of that. Neat little thing. Neat little thing. The word baku now means to peer. Oh my gosh. So I will no, it doesn't mean to pier. Like that's not the little translation, but the Japanese call the tapir baku. Like that's their word for it.

SPEAKER_05 22:29

I mean, to be fair, the tapir looks like he has an elephant trunk and rhinoceros ears and an oxen tail.

SPEAKER_01 22:35

Yeah. Some academics have hypothesized that the mythological creature was inspired by a now extinct species similar to the Asian tapir.

SPEAKER_06 22:45

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 22:46

And uh yeah, so now in in Japan, the term baku has two meanings. One is the mythological creature and one is the tapir. I freaking love tapirs.

SPEAKER_03 23:01

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 23:02

They're adorable.

SPEAKER_03 23:03

They're super cute. Super, super cute. Yeah. And I want one. Yeah. Can we get one? Um, is it legal? Probably not. To own one.

SPEAKER_05 23:13

Not in our uh income bracket, no. Oh yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:21

If we're in a different income bracket, I mean it's almost illegal to own as many cats as we do in our income bracket.

SPEAKER_03 23:27

If we're gonna pull finances, if it's illegal, it's just not smart. That is true.

SPEAKER_04 23:36

We're all well cared.

SPEAKER_03 23:37

We just they are all well cared for and we spend more money on them than we do on ourselves. It's true. Yeah. They have their own credit card. So they really do. Sad. But they don't have jobs.

unknown 23:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:50

So if anyone would like to hire uh a very nervous looking little calica who keeps trying to drink my water out of my cup. Oh my gosh. She's so cute.

SPEAKER_03 24:01

Okay, sorry. She's good at drinking water out of cups. Yep. Yep. Only ice water. Yeah. Sometimes. She doesn't like soda.

SPEAKER_01 24:11

Oh. She does, yeah. Dr.

SPEAKER_05 24:14

Pepper.

SPEAKER_01 24:15

Yeah. Clarifying. One final neat little thing, and then my topic is done. Wow. Oh my gosh, I'm not ready. Okay. Yeah. Um, in 1984, Oshi Mamoru's animated film Beautiful Dreamer depicted a Baku as a tapir. Later, Abaku took on a tapir-like form in Pokemon in the drowsy. Oh, I love the drowsy hypno. Yeah. And the Muna. I don't know that one. Musharna? I don't know that one. I don't know. I think these are the like the cause they evolve or whatever. So like the drowsy becomes the hypnotized.

SPEAKER_05 24:53

Yeah, drowsy becomes hypno. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 24:54

And Muna and Musharna. I don't know. And then also in Digimon, um, they also have a character called Bakuman or Tapirmon that bears similarity to the mythological Baku.

SPEAKER_05 25:12

So yeah, that's in there's in pop culture. This is drowsy. Looks just like a little dip here. And then the other one is hypno. Okay. Yeah. Cool. That is the extent of my Pokemon knowledge. I am not a Pokemonster. Monster.

SPEAKER_03 25:28

I'm not a Pokemonster.

SPEAKER_04 25:31

Oh, I'm a pretentious.

SPEAKER_05 25:35

I have to be my little pretentious. I am not a Pokemon. I don't know. I know just like some I played the Pokemon Go.

SPEAKER_03 25:44

That's the extent of it. Gotta catch them all.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

Gotta catch them all. Um my brother used to watch Pokemon when he was little, so like I got I I am I know some references. I don't know all the things. I know Jesse and James, right? Yep. Yeah. I I know that one time. Team Rocket Blasting Up again. You know, I like I like them. I know they're the villains, but they were my favorite part.

SPEAKER_05 26:06

They're the coolest. I know that one point um I had I can't remember how I got it. In a box of stuff. I don't remember, but at some point I had a binder with a complete set of the first or the original like first 150 Pokemon and ended up selling it probably way cheaper. And I wish I had it now because I it's like so much money now. Like some of those cards were you know a couple hundred dollars just for one card and it was a full set. That is crazy. It's stupid. Yeah, it's so stupid.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

It's uh hey, you know, I won't judge how people want to spend their money because we bought four K-pop albums that are never gonna go up in value.

SPEAKER_03 26:48

Same songs, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:50

Like I I mentioned there are four different versions. The songs are the same. It's just the packaging that's different. Yep.

SPEAKER_05 26:58

No, I'm not spend your money how you want to spend it. You earned it. You went out and you worked, and you can buy yourself nice things that you like and that bring you joy. Yeah. I mean, I used to collect comic books, I used to collect cards and stuff. Like Yeah, I spend money on stupid stuff. Yeah, I'm like, and yeah, I spend so much on stupid stuff. It's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_03 27:17

I need to stop.

SPEAKER_05 27:19

But yeah. If you like Pokemon cards and they make you happy, do it.

SPEAKER_01 27:26

And if you have nightmares about spending too much money, you can call on the Baku to come eat them. Just make sure you don't get the really hungry one.

SPEAKER_05 27:34

Yeah. Because then he'll steal your hopes and dreams as well.

SPEAKER_01 27:37

Yeah. Bakusan. I love that. Come get some seconds.

SPEAKER_05 27:41

Little random creatures. Yeah. Encryptids are my favorite thing. I know. Now I want to draw my version of a baku-san. Do it. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 27:52

Okay, what are you talking about?

SPEAKER_05 27:54

Um total topic shift. Um so when I first put this in the in the topic list, I was like, oh, this is connected to the Egyptian craze, but it's actually not. I thought it was because I think I read I think I read about these two things like on the same day or within the same time frame, and I have connected them in my head, but they're actually not. So I talked about Egypt Egyptomania last time. And I when I pulled this topic, I was like, oh, it's connected, but it's not. But we're gonna talk about the rise in spiritualism. Oh and this is not like just being a spiritual person and that sort of thing. This is um seances, seances and mediums and talking to the dead.

SPEAKER_03 28:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 28:47

So we're gonna go we're gonna talk about this. So this um was really big in uh the Victorian time period from like 1837 to 1901. Um, but it also like kicked up again in the 1920s um as well. Like there became another kind of resurgence and also um a little bit after World War II. World War I mostly, but World War II there was another little uptick of it, but not as much. Um, so it's kind of defined as a religious movement in that in the early mostly in America, in the mid-1800s and early 1900s, they actually had kind of um arranged services where they would people would come together and do seances together as kind of a meeting type thing, as a spiritual meeting.

SPEAKER_03 29:45

Okay, which is like to me, I'm like they would go seancing. Seancing's not a word. Seancing isn't a word.

SPEAKER_05 29:53

Uh that's our little headless reference for the night. Nope. Nope, it's Edgar Allan Poe. We watched both of them. Same comedy troupe, but yeah. Um, so in the Victorian area, it I told you, we're not editing, I'm gonna mess up. It's fine. I I stammered a lot too. It's okay. So life expendency was low. And we we do sorry, we do know that like the average life expectancy is about 47 years old, but we know this is slightly skewed because there was a high rate of infant mortality. Yeah. Um, but there was a lot of untimely death in the Victorian era. There were like new inventions that were coming and uh industrialization and that sort of thing that kind of caused accidents and disease and everything. So um there became this kind of obsession with the passage from from life to death, and people wanted to know like what happens after after death, and they kind of started this whole little oh well you could you could talk to the people if you do the right things and you have the right you know uh feeling within you. Um but spiritualism really, really kicked off in America. Um when at the beginning of America, very puritanical kind of form of Christianity, you know, the Quakers and the Puritans, it was all very strict, very uh regimented, and when um people died, they they died in the home, and they it was like this is very sad, they are dead, they have you know the service, and it's very like there was no really uh there was not grief, like grief therapy. You didn't talk about your like, yes, very sad, they're dead. Move on. Life is life is pain, move on. And you just kind of, you know, so there was but then as like more people started moving in and more there was again the more industrialization, urbanization, and people were not so much dying in the home as maybe in the you know, in a hospital or under a doctor's care, that sort of thing. Yeah. And it became more of a business, funeral homes and that sort of thing. Um, and then so there were all these um new practices and beliefs coming in with immigrants as well, and more scientific discoveries that were challenging these strict religious beliefs and all of this. So there was also the Civil War was right in the midst of this. And that is one of the big things that kind of kicked this off. Um people were like, life is becoming uncertain. You know, you had a certain progression of things, but now we've got all this expansion, and now our country is like being torn apart with the civil war. Um, and people are like we don't know, we don't really know how to deal with this new thing, and trying to look for different ways outside of this very strict um, you know, puritanical re form of Christianity. So all of these things are kind of coming together, and then the civil war hits, and people are, you know, hundreds of thousands of people are dying far, far from home and never, you know, being buried where they fell, and that sort of thing. So it's people weren't knowing what what happened to their family members. Um you know, they get a letter, and or if they got a letter, there's no closure. There's no closure, there's no funeral, there's no grief, you know, real like a formalized grief time period. Yeah. Um, so this kind of spiritualism, this ability to, you know, perhaps talk or hear or at least know that the your loved one is at at rest or whatever, yeah, kind of started to grow as a way, as a coping mechanism, which is kind of fascinating when you think about it. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and of course, there's the people who fully believe that this was a thing, and then you have the people who took advantage of this. Yeah. You know, which exploited it. Exploited it. It always, always happens. Yeah. Um, another big rise of the popularity of this was the invention of photography. Ah. Yes. Yes. So this was like this brand new technology that was fascinating. And people were also like, you know, what this what is happening? This is why are you how can you do this? This is magic, right? You're you're we're sitting here and now that you have this frame with us in it. Um, but there was also like new visuals out. You could take a picture from a hot air balloon, so you have aerial images of your whole town or your farm or your your whole cities. So you're like, you have this whole new perspective of life. And then there's also photographs taken during the Civil War of you know dead bodies in a field or actual photos taken during battles or of cities that were, you know, on fire or being damaged, or so you have this whole new image of death and destruction that has never been seen, like never captured for just the general public. Obviously, the people who are involved in wars have seen this. But the general public at that time, if you weren't in an area where this was happening, you were just hearing second hand. Now you have visuals to go with it. So more and more people were turning to these mediums, these people who claim they could speak to the dead to just get like, okay, you know, my uncle went to war and never returned. Is he okay? Is you know, you know, he obviously he's dead. Is he okay? Did he did he die in peace or did you know is his soul at peace? Yeah. And that was the big thing. Um by the end of the Civil War, there were a reported 11 million, 11 million people who uh define themselves as spiritualists and about 35,000 practicing mediums. Wow. Which is huge. Yeah. That's a huge amount of people. Um excuse me. Um in a book by Grant Shreve uh entitled When Women Channeled the Dead to Be Heard, uh, he says that spiritualism was one of the 19th century's most successful religious innovations, a diffuse but powerful movement of individuals who yearned for religion, which united mysticism and science. So there was like this aspect of science that came into it in the fact that they would use like the different tools and the different things to kind of create the mood.

SPEAKER_01 36:58

Much like the ghost hunting shows of today. They have all this tech. Yeah, that the tech that proves. Yeah. Okay. Okay, but how do you know the tech is working because you don't know if it's actually detecting ghosts or random other environmental changes? Oh my god. Okay, we've got to be.

SPEAKER_05 37:18

Anyway, we've ranted about that before. Every season of Ghost Adventures, which is hilarious. It's hilarious. We've seen all of it. We know they're like, we have this tech, and it proves, it proves. And I'm like, well, that term you're using, milligals, my favorite term that's a disembark. You all words are made up. But that is like that is like there's no that's not a scientific measurement.

SPEAKER_01 37:46

Yeah, like your machine is obviously reacting to something. Doesn't it's not a ghost. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:53

I'm just like, oh my gosh. But you know what?

SPEAKER_03 37:56

It's fun to watch. It's it's hilarious.

SPEAKER_04 37:58

Um I love ghost adventures.

SPEAKER_01 38:00

It's oh my god. Did you see the museum is hiring? Zach Begin's museum. Oh gosh, no. Social media. Has to be a local though. You have to live in Vegas.

SPEAKER_05 38:12

Uh if I want to move, I can't afford to move to Vegas.

SPEAKER_01 38:15

Yeah, but they specifically want like a video editor and stuff like that. Oh, yeah. No, okay.

SPEAKER_05 38:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:20

All right. Anyway, weird technically.

SPEAKER_05 38:21

Anyway, weird. So if you're a video editor and you live in Vegas, uh the haunted museum is hiring if you're into the paranormal thing. Go meet Zach. Good luck. Yeah. Godspeed. Um I have lost my space in that little tangent. Um in Encyclopedia Britannica, it's it says a core belief is that individuals survive the death of their bodies by ascending into a spirit existence. And that the condition of that spirit existence is directly related to the moral quality of their human existence. Um, communion with the spiritual world is both possible and desirable, and spiritual healing healing is the natural result of such communication. Um, the spiritualists understand God as infinite intelligence. So there is like, you know, if you led a really good life, you have a good afterlife in the spirit realm. So it's it's interesting, like to me, like to because I everyone has their own beliefs on what the afterlife and how you know how that I'm not challenging that. I'm just finding this fascinating. Yeah. On how you like learning about other people. I love learning about stuff. I have my beliefs. Yeah. But learning stuff, I I never stop learning. That's important. Um, so historically, the the people were organized in small groups um that conducted seances or they had meetings for spirit communications, and then larger gatherings would be held for public demonstrations of spirit contact and psychic phenomena. These gather these gatherings evolved into Sunday church services that became common in the 20th century in the spiritualist churches. Yeah. So you have like, oh, we're gonna have our sans. Well, let's just do this every Sunday and kind of you know, use this. So it became like a what it became like an actual it's like it's an actual form of religion.

SPEAKER_01 40:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 40:24

But like non-traditional, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 40:26

Yeah, for sure. I'm so like I'm picturing like the scammy ones that like the the TV psychics that stand in front of an audience and just like oh my gosh, look for facial clues or whatever, like tells. They look for tells.

SPEAKER_05 40:45

They've been prepped on who's in the audience.

SPEAKER_01 40:47

Yeah. There was a good uh episode um of Leverage about that. They they wanted to take down someone who was doing that, like making big money and holding like these like seminars and workshops all over the place, and people would pay him thousands of dollars because he's a medium and can contact the dead. But he actually just has a team of people finding stuff about anybody who buys a ticket.

SPEAKER_05 41:12

Yeah, it's ridiculous. Um, there's actually I can't remember the name of it, but I just remembered like a visual from it, a Steve Martin movie where he plays a televangelist like that. Oh, I haven't seen it, but like he paint he has stuff painted on his hands, so like when he hits the forehead of someone who's sweaty and hot because the temperature in the tent's very high, yeah. Like it will make a a form of a cross on their forehead, and it's like, ah, and he has like people. It's it was one of those, like in the end, he's figures out. He's scammy, but in the end, he becomes real and he donates his money to the actual sick kid who believes in him and stuff or something. But yeah, it's like, but like, I mean, that is there used there used to be all kinds of TV shows, daytime TV, about you know, the talk shows, yeah, and they'd have the psychic, and occasionally, and it'll probably start happening again because I've been researching this. I'll get some old reels of that sliding across my Instagram. And oh my god, it's funny to watch because it's oh, they're just hilarious. I'm getting I'm getting a an M and the person's like, no. Oh no, no, I meant a C.

SPEAKER_03 42:20

It's like what?

SPEAKER_05 42:22

Like, yeah, yeah, no, you picked the wrong person. Sorry, that wasn't the one you were prepped to pick or something. It's it's just ridiculous. Um, but you know, people were able to find kind of um solace in that maybe they they were able to find some closure, especially like after the war. And that's why after the World War I, there was another huge uptick in 1920s. Oh, World War in the 1920s. Like I said, there was another uptick in after World War II, um, but it wasn't as big as it as those two initials, the Civil War and the and World War I.

SPEAKER_06 43:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 43:03

Probably just because like more technology and more kind of scientific stuff came into it. Yeah. And not as much like and like in World War II, there was a lot more um kind of mass communication. We had TV movies, you know, there was a lot more information being spread than not in the previous.

SPEAKER_01 43:23

Yeah, it wasn't just like, well, your loved one has died. The end. The end.

SPEAKER_05 43:27

Yeah, I don't know what's going on. I just heard about this thing happening, you know. Yeah. So yeah, um, but I wanted to talk a little bit about some of the um I guess scammy things, but maybe not scammy. I don't know. One of the biggest um one of the big, big beginnings of the mediums and stuff was um the Fox family, which I think you may have heard about them. Yeah. This there were sisters? Sisters, the Fox sisters, and let me Get back to this page. I didn't tr like I didn't pull all this into my notes. I'm back on this website that has horror it's white on a dark background, and the font is very annoying. Um so the the Fox family had moved into a house that legends said was haunted. This was in the 1840s, um, that a family named Belle occupied this house, and then there was a young woman um named Lucretia who would come and do like work as a maid and come and do household chores. Um and then one day a peddler came and there was seems like there was maybe some the lady of the house and the pedlar. They had a lot of meetings where they would, you know, discuss the peddler's goods. Sure. Um, and then one day he just disappeared and never came back. And um Lucretia was dismissed, and then sometime later she was hired again. And she said while she was there, like things would be moved a little bit, or there would be some tapping sounds, and occasionally she would hear footsteps kind of pacing back and forth, or and then going down to the cellar, and she wouldn't want to be left alone. Um, so eventually she moved out, and then the bells moved out, and over time the Fox family moved in. And so now there is this story of this haunted, possibly haunted house that these people have moved in. Um, the two young daughters, Margaret and Kate, um started hearing noises and started hearing like banging at night, and they would be woken up from this. And at first the dad was like, We're in a new house, you know, houses settle, settles, things happen. There's a you know, it's older, it creates all the things you you know, and houses do especially old houses, they all have sounds. Yeah, and the first time you're in an old house, you're like, Oh my gosh, everything after you've been there a few months, you're like, Yeah, it's just the this, that, or the other, and you don't worry about it. Um, but one night uh Kate woke up screaming, saying that a cold hand had touched her face, and Margaret said that her blankets had been pulled from her bed. And then Mrs. Fox, the mother, said that she could hear footsteps walking through the house and going down the steps to the cellar. So Mr. Fox, who's not superstitious, he's like, I'm gonna figure this out. But I am a little stichious. I'm a little sticious. Um, he's like, he's gonna walk the house, he stayed up, and he would walk through the house and he'd find all the different little sounds that he could make in the floorboards, test the windows and doors, and like some stuff he could explain away, but there were sounds that he couldn't explain away. And his daughters were like, There is a ghost, we're convinced. Um and then one night he was doing his nightly ritual of investigating the house, and there had been a tapping sound that had started, and he searched and searched and searched, and then he couldn't find anything. And then Kate says she began to realize that whenever her father knocked on a wall or a doorframe, the same number of knocks would come in reply as if someone or something was trying to communicate with them. Finding her nerve, I'm just gonna kind of read this part. Um, finding her nerve, Kate spoke up, addressing the unseen presence by the nickname that she and her sister had given it. Here, Mr. Splitfoot, do as I do. I know. Why did you call it Splitfoot? Splitfoot is creepy. Oh my gosh. What the heck, right?

SPEAKER_03 47:46

I don't like that.

SPEAKER_05 47:48

No, think of better names. Yeah. Um she clapped her hands together two times, and within a few seconds later, two knocks came in reply, seemingly from inside the wall. She followed this display by rapping on the table, and the precise number of knocks came again from the wall. The activity caught the attention of the rest of the family, and they entered the room, and Mrs. Fox tried asking aloud questions that she knew the answers to, such as the ages of her daughter or the age of a child who had passed away earlier, and to her surprise, each reply came back accurate. So then John's like, um, let's go get the neighbors. And all right, because maybe we're just all imagining this. Yeah. So they went and got the neighbors, and the neighbors are like, dude, y'all crazy. And then this started to happen. And they were like astounded to find that they could ask their ages, dates, and years and stuff like that would be answered with these knocks. And even the neighbors? Yeah, even the neighbors. Um, and then one of the uh one neighbor and someone who actually had been a tenant in the house for a while, uh, William Doosler, decided to try and communicate with the source in a more scientific manner. He asked repeated questions and was able to create a form of alphabet with the sear using a series of knocks. He was also able to set up knocks that could be interpreted as yes and no. And he was able kind of to determine the subject of the disturbances. And the answer came not in private, but before an assembled group of witnesses that the presence in the house was the spirit of a pedlar who had been murdered years before. Ah, the peddler has returned. The peddler has returned. As it happened, one of the neighbors who was there when this was announced was Lucretia. Ah. She came forward and she said, Hey, you know, I found some dirt in the cellar. And they were like, Never mind about the dirt in the cellar. And the peddler left, and they were like, Never mind about the pedlar. You're asking too many questions. So John Fox and William went down to the area in the cellar and they started digging. And they dug for about an hour and uh they found nothing really, and then dug a little more. And John or Mr. Fox pulled up um like a little piece of bone that had a few strands of hair on it and uh some torn clothing. So he dug and dug and dug and never really found anything else. Um, but a local doctor did say that the bone appeared to be part of a human skull. So now everybody's convinced that the peddler is in the house, the ghost is there, and he's trying to communicate with them. Yeah. So the two daughters started to have these mediumistic powers, and they started to be able like really communicate, and they started giving public public performances, and this kind of really kicked off the the movement of these public seances, yeah. Communications and stuff, and this mania kind of swept through the country and they became famous. And I didn't go into a huge detail of them, but um sometimes later, of course, they were gun called into credibility and they were like, there's no real evidence that the peddler was ever killed here. Maybe somebody planted that bit of bone. Um, but in 1904, I thought this was interesting, the house had been abandoned for years, and a group of children were playing, and a part of the wall collapsed and like almost almost killed one of the kids, but a man came and helped them, and then he found in the wall that part of it had been a false wall, and there were the bones, there were skeletons. There was a skeleton in the wall with a box that um that were similar to ones carried by peddlers. Wow. Um in the 1840s, which I'm just like So there was some truth to it. A portion of the man's skull was missing. Wow. So you have to wonder, but then also like, well, could they have planted the bones later? Could it have all been done? Because they became famous and they were making money and drawing crowds that numbered into the thousands. So it was very big bear uh very big deal.

SPEAKER_01 52:21

Um was it is it possible that they discovered the skeleton walled it up again in order to capitalize off of it?

SPEAKER_05 52:35

There is a theory. There is a theory that that could have been, but the skeleton wasn't discovered until after they like the whole family had moved either moved or passed away. Yeah. So either either like their fame faded before they could reveal the skeleton, or I guess why wouldn't they reveal the skeleton?

SPEAKER_01 52:56

That yeah if they had yeah if they had planned.

SPEAKER_05 52:59

So like you know, it's kind of in the air, like when they have planned it. Um was it just a coincidence? Was it just a coincidence? You're right. The pedlar got murdered there. Yeah, like you hear stories and then you start kind of thinking, oh, what was that knocking sound? Oh, what is that? But like I'm always curious because like a lot of these um mediums and people who would contact were proven to be false. Yeah. And someone who did Thanks to Houdini, right? Harry Houdini. I was just gonna bring him up. Your mom actually sent me this article. Um, and it's basically uh you can find this on um in the Library of Congress. Oh uh, and I'll drop the link here. Um Hollywood Houdini and the Hollywood Hollywood Houdini and the Hollywood Say the what's the October holiday?

SPEAKER_03 53:54

Halloween. Halloween, thank you. Oh my gosh. I could not, I kept wanting to call it Hollyween. Hollywood Houdini and the Halloween.

SPEAKER_05 54:06

Okay. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 54:10

Halloween. Halloween.

SPEAKER_05 54:12

So we all know like Harry Houdini is the the master magician. Like he was known for his magical feats, his escape uh techniques, and all of his wonderful things. He was also like he was like, okay, I'm either gonna prove that these mediums are fake or I'm gonna prove that they're not. Uh-huh. And like his goal, he had people who would go into towns, check out the mediums, set up an arrangement, you know, have a seance with them, and report back to him, and then he would go or he would sneak in undercover, or he would try to, he would look for ways to set like trap these mediums. And he like did a lot.

SPEAKER_01 54:59

I think I I'm fascinated by this because I've heard of this before. I think they did an episode about it, and that's why we drink. And I think that this could be one of our topics too. Just Harry Houdini, but specifically his work to expose the fraud mediums.

SPEAKER_05 55:16

He was like all about this. Yeah. All about this. I love it. And like one of his big things was okay, best, my love, the love of his life. Whichever one of us dies first, if there is an afterlife, this is the code. You will know that this is me. If any you go to any medium you want. If you if this code does not come in, it's not me and you know it's false. So sh only she knew this code. For 10 years, every every Halloween, because he died um on uh uh he died on Halloween. So for every year, for 10 years, she had a seance and it was publicized. And then this one in 1936 was the last one because she said, I will not do it anymore after 10 years. Uh-huh. And he said, Do not do this after 10 years. You know, that was their agreement. So they had this huge thing. They're on top of the roof of the Knickerbocker Hotel. Um, lost the lights of LA, glitter in the distance, and there's um they have a table set up. There is a pair of silver handcuffs on a silk pillow locked, because that was another thing he said he would unlock these handcuffs. Um, there was a trumpet and a tambourine, and then there was an invitation-only audience of 300 that was crammed into a set of bleachers and the radio, the local radio. Um, shoot, I forgot what the radio station was. Let me scroll down here and I will see what it is. Do, do, do, do, do.

SPEAKER_01 57:02

Sorry, I would have filled the silence, but I just yawned. It's not like a reflection of what it was.

SPEAKER_05 57:07

No, I was yawning during years too. I was just like, oh, so sorry. Um, I can't remember. It was a radio show. Um, but there was Charles Frick, who was judge of the California High Court. There were journalists, there was the past president of the California Spiritualist Organization, um, several other magicians and seers and mediums, and they all sat and they were going to attempt this. Um sorry, she's about to walk on my computer. So she almost walked on mine. So, you know, he made this pact with his wife that this was the code I would unlock these hand I'll unlock these handcuffs and I will give you this code word. So just one word or was it a phrase? It was a phrase. Okay. Um so the code word was their secret code word was Roosevelt, and that would be followed by the phrase answer, tell, pray, answer, look, tell, answer, answer, tell. And that was a shorthand used between them when they were um on stage together, and in their code, it spelled believe. So that was something that only the two of them know. They didn't, they it wasn't shared with anyone else. Um there had been like after his death, like spiritualism, spiritualists and mediums across the country were like, oh, Houdini contacted me. And in Chicago, his ghost supposedly went into a room, and in Kansas City, the ghost wrote a letter in New Zealand, it drank a cup of tea. Um He's not there to prove him wrong. So exactly. Except, you know, none of them gave the code. Yeah. And his wife is like, Well, if you don't have the code word, you don't this is not Houdini, you're making this up. Uh-huh. She's like, I so they conducted this uh ceremony, they had the whole thing, and um, like there was this guy delivered this 10-minute speech on Houdini's career, and then he gave a prayer, and then I'm gonna read this last part, um, because it was the end of it. Um, he says Oh thou disembodied spirits, those of you who have grown old in the mysterious laws of spirit land, we greet thee. Houdini, are you here? Are you here, Houdini? His he said, his voice rising, please manifest yourself in any way possible. We have waited, Houdini, oh so long. Now is the night of nights. Speak, Harry. And then pomp and circumstance followed the song. Uh huh. Um that was stage music that Houdini had always used for his opening and closing of his shows. And then the group waited for contact. It never came. The last part of the seance played to the radio audience and best announced, Houdini did not come through. My last hope is gone. I do not believe that Houdini can come back to me or to anyone. It is now my personal and positive belief that spirit communication in in any form is impossible. I do not believe that ghosts or spirits exist. The Houdini shrine has burned for ten years. I now rever reverently turn out the light. It is finished. Reverently? Reverent reverently. Reverent. Reverently. It is finished. Good night, Harry. And then it ended. Um in the Library of Cont Congress, you can go to the rare book division and you can hold a documentation of the event, um, which includes the radio script, which once you read the radio script, it becomes clear that the entire seance was scripted beforehand. Oh, okay. Yeah. It is replete with speaking instructions such as pause, speak slowly. Oh my gosh. It was all show business. But isn't that kind of the perfect thing for Harry? Yeah. Yeah. I thought it was cool. Yeah. Um, but in 1943, as she grew close to death, best recalled her decade-long vigil. She said she wasn't sorry she had stopped. Ten years is long enough to wait for any man.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:21

And I kind of love that. That's yeah, I like that.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:24

But I love that little, that little your mom sent me that article um the other day. And I was like, oh, I that's cool. I like that. So I just wanted to tack that in. That is cool. But yeah, I would love to do uh a deep dive into Harry Houdini because I I mean I am fascinated by the sleight of hand of magicians and and that like I know all of that. I all of it. I'm just like, I know how you did that, but I don't know how you did that. How did you do that? Like I was watching your hands, you know. It blows my mind and like his you know, ability to get out of straight jackets and yeah, it's just fascinating to me. All of that is fascinating. Yeah. And now I want to go watch uh The Prestige. That's such a good one. It is really good. I love it. I like that one. Yeah. So yeah, I just I there was like I was telling you when I was doing this research, I was like, oh man, I could talk about this. And there is a lot more because I could go into in-depth in like a lot of the different um the deeper beliefs and and techniques that were used and stuff, but I just kind of wanted to stick to not dragging this out for three hours, um, and not like getting too deep into like real beliefs and stuff because people believe this. This is their this is like their form of faith, and I'm not gonna trash on that.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:48

Yeah, I do actually feel bad because you were talking about how it had formed like a religion, and then I immediately went to the scammer side of that. And like I I wanted to interject at some point and say that like I'm not saying that all of it is a scam. Like that's just where my mind went when you said like they turned it into a regular Sunday meeting sort of thing. Yeah, yeah. So it's I I don't know. It that's just that's what I associate with mediumship is all the scams because that's like in pop culture, if you have a story about a medium, it's gonna be a scam. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:23

But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:24

Unless it's an actual like ghost story.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:26

Yeah. And I think like there are stories of like the Fox sisters who became incredibly popular and they they charged money for this, you know. And yeah. And there's like, well, is this I get like if you are doing a thing and people are coming to watch you, well, now it is a job. You want to be recompensed for it. I get that, but but yeah, it is it's not for me. I was gonna go with that. Like, no, like I I have my beliefs about the afterlife or what happens at death and that sort of thing, and that's fine. But I I always am fascinated reading about stuff like this. Yeah. And the it seemed like from the mid-1800s to the like early 1900s, there was just like people went like there were crazes that happened. Yeah. And it's just fascinating to me to to, you know, like read about those, yeah, that time period.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:28

But it it makes sense that that's when the rise happened, like Civil War era, because of like this this sort of perfect storm of circumstances. You mentioned the photography being a thing. So these images of death and destruction were now made available to the public, and that's like jarring, and you want closure if you know someone or have a loved one that went off to fight in this war. What if you're looking at a battlefield with them in it? Are they there in that?

SPEAKER_05 1:05:00

Are they in that picture you don't know?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:01

Yeah, and so it just like it it got people really thinking and really needing that closure and seeking out ways to to get that.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:11

Yeah. So I mean it it it honestly makes perfect sense. Yeah, especially when knowing, like, you know, we always joke about when uh like on Ghost Adventures, they're like, he died in this house. And I'm like, dude, like people didn't in their homes. Everybody used to die in your homes. You didn't die in a hospital. Yeah, you know, like you died in your home. The doctor would come to your house. Yeah. Like, so like if there's a house from pre-1900s, someone probably died in it.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:38

Yeah, completely.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:39

There was actually one episode where they were, I think they were doing a museum or something, and the museum person said, like, it's not uncommon for people to to die in their homes. Yeah. And they just kind of breathe right past it in there. Anyway, tell me about that.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:56

Anyway, so somebody died here. Yeah, it happens a lot. But like af but like for the Civil War, like people were not dying at home anymore. Yeah. They were dying far away in unknown circumstances. So yeah, looking for that way to to have that closure. And you know, like even grief therapy is new. Yeah. You know, talking about grief, talking about your feelings when someone dies is new. You know? Uh-huh. Even like we didn't really talk about people who died when I was a kid. Yeah. You know, like it was like, oh, that's very sad, you know. Okay, but you're going to school tomorrow. It was like, okay. You know, like it's just kind of a weird, you know, you just didn't have like, how are you feeling about this? Or, you know, what do you and like I'm not saying like my parents did talk a bit, but it wasn't like you didn't just sit down and kind of work through the the stages of grief. Yeah. You were just like, okay, life goes on, you know, that happened, life goes on, and you're just like, okay. So like it is like a whole kind of interesting, like, I wonder if that would happen now. Yeah. You know, if it if it had never become a thing then, would it become a thing now? It would be interesting. Yeah. To know. Like, it's uh like the whole psychology we talk about this all the time. Psychology is fascinating. It really is. And it just like, especially the psychology of like groups of people and how things shift depending on technology or innovations and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:32

Like what what's that little spark that takes an idea into like a full-fledged craze? Yeah. Like, is it a perfect storm sort of thing, or is it just like one famous story that I guess went viral? Yeah, went viral.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:50

That's a perfect term. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:51

But yeah, it's it's always fascinating. Like thinking, like I mentioned about the photography, we're so used to Google Earth. Yeah. I mean, we're so used to pictures. I have 27,000 photos on my phone right now. You know, and like I remember the Edgar Allan Poe episode. He was like, oh no, my wife died. I don't have a picture of her. So he had to have a picture painted of her, you know, after she died. He didn't have any pictures of her.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:20

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Which is like I fight hardly. I forgot about that part of it. Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:25

It's hard to comprehend that you're like, you don't have 20 pictures of your wife. What are you doing? It's like your partner. Anybody's like, what? How do you it's just such a different how like the innovation, like they could now suddenly see, like you said, pictures of the war or pictures of their town. Yeah. From the air. Like, wow, like that's just such a wild. I just want to be a time traveler.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:47

Yeah. Again.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:49

But yeah, that's get on that.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:52

Okay. Science. Make it happen.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:55

You know, we are going to school again. Maybe if we find out we're actually good students, we can just keep going. Massage therapy this semester.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:06

Psychology and then time travel.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:07

Psychology next semester, and then yeah, quantum physics or whatever. String theory. I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:12

Yeah. Is it string theory that is time?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:14

It's all tied to time travel. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:17

So yeah. We'll we'll be on that role.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:22

Yeah. All right. If time travel exists, we'll we'll come back. See in wormholes.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:28

Yeah. I gotta go be a scientist now. Okay, BRB. So that's it. That's my little little uh I'm not gonna say deep dive. I'm gonna say a a a toe dip into spiritualism.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:47

But you got like the whole big toe in there. I did. I got I got like three toes. That's cool. I I think that was one of the first topics we even put on the Yeah, it was way up at the top of the list. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:07

Yeah, I think that's that's fascinating.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:09

I love crazes.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:13

Me too.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:14

They're crazy. Wild stuff, man. I keep thinking about possible um episode titles for this. Bakusan.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:28

Uh can you hear me? No. Wait, no, I don't know. Um is that you, Houdini? I don't know. We'll come up with something. We'll come up with something. If you have an idea for the episode title, uh text us really quick. Okay, we'll wait.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:51

Thank you. That was a good one.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:55

That was a good one. No, that was a good one. They gave us a good one. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:59

Thank you to whoever just texts us. We'll credit you in another episode. Oh, we're supposed to give Liam a shout-out.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:07

I was literally, literally just gonna say we have to give Liam a shout-out.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:13

Liam is my nephew, and he just wanted a shout-out. So hi, hi Liam. Hi Liam. You're probably not even gonna listen to this. I don't even know if you listen to this podcast. You just wanted a shout-out. So, like, if okay Liam, if you listen to this, I'll give you a dollar. Oh yeah, he won't he won't let you forget that. I know.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:33

Okay. Don't anybody tell him I said that, he has to listen.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:36

Yeah. He has to hear it. He has to hear it. From whatever electronic device he's listening from to his ears. Yep. From our mouths. Wait. From our mouths. To the electronic device. To his ears.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:54

All right, let's wrap this. We have lost it. We've lost our brain.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:57

We can't wrap it yet. Oh, why? Oh, we gotta draw cards. We gotta draw cards and we have to do warm members. I think I was gonna say something, but I forgot what it was. That's okay. Um, how about the usual spiel of if you would like to support our show? We would love you forever, especially with both of us going into school. We're kind of like panicking over finances because school, going to school means we can't work all the hours that we've been working. So yeah, uh, support our show. You can find us at patreon.com slash jess and hids. You can also go to jessandhids.com and there's a link to our Patreon page there. Um, if you want to join our Discord server, it is free to join. And Discord is free also. Like you don't have to like sign up for a Discord membership and then join our server anyway. Um, link the link for that is also on our website to our Discord. We also have special channels that are for patrons only. So if you do want to actually become a paid patron, um more channels and perks would will be unlocked for you. And I highly recommend. Because we have fun. We do have fun.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:14

Yeah. I have art live tomorrow. I'm saying tomorrow, but it'll actually be today when this podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:20

I mean that yeah, the day this podcast is released, there's gonna be an art live. Meaning is going to go live on Patreon and do art. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:30

I don't know what I'm gonna do yet. We'll figure it out. That's what we are. Assignment? Oh, I might do one of my school assignments.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:36

Both taking art classes? Yeah, that could be interesting. I haven't even looked at the assignments. I only know because you've told me.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:44

I've done one of them. I have to do the rest, the other two. They're not due till the 15th, though, because that's Monday. Okay. If the portal uh for uploading them to the website is actually in place on Monday.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:00

That's going.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:01

Okay. Yep. So okay, I have the cards spread out. Do you have a war member you want to talk about? How do we cards first, then war member?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:10

You should just write it down. Okay. Um, did you draw?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:20

Ooh. Okay. Okay. I also, yep. Cool. I like mine. You're supposed to like have a reaction.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:32

Otherwise, what's the point of doing this while we're recording? Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:36

My initial reaction was I have no idea what this is. And then while you were drawing yours, I was like, oh, I remember what this is now. Okay. So um, yeah. Uh okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:50

I'm excited about mine.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:51

I am excited about mine. It's gonna be fun.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:56

Yay.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:57

Okay. Uh, warm members.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:00

Okay, my warm ember is our two new co-workers.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:05

Oh my goodness. Well, one of them's not really new, but she's working daytime hours now instead of just the afternoon.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:12

We actually see her for more than five minutes a day.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:15

Um, no, the the past two weeks have been really nice to have competent co-workers. It really, yeah. And and they both listen. So thank you guys.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:24

Thank you, Camri and Hayden. Shout out. Shout out to Camry and Hayden. Both of you guys. Um and like, oh, they freaking both listen to the podcast. Yeah. So shout out. Thank you for that. Don't have to do that. This is awkward now. I know. Please don't talk about this when you hear it.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:42

I'll have to go hide in the boiler room. Oh man. Uh no, but that I was sitting here thinking, I was like, do I have a word? And I was like, oh my gosh, yes. They're fun to work with, they're competent, they they do their do their work and they are both learning quickly and picking things up. And yeah, it's just nice. It's been nice. The past two weeks, like we said earlier, have been crazy busy. And uh it was nice to not just be swamped.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:10

I was stressed about having to train people, but they've been really easy to train. Yeah. And it's been nice.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:18

So yeah, that's my warm ember. Sweet. My warm ember.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:25

Um, we went and visited with uh my mom for a little bit tonight. And then my sister-in-law came down and we chatted for a little bit, and it was funny because we were talking. We started talking about K-pop, about X-Love. Because like we just got those albums today, and my mom does not care. But she humors us and started asking. So, like, what other K-pop bands are there? And we like there's so many K-pop bands, but we only listen to like three. Yeah. And then like a handful of other songs from a handful of other bands that like we had to think about like, who are they? What are they?

SPEAKER_03 1:17:02

That one song.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:03

That one song, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:04

That one song. Yeah. It's the Korean word I can't pronounce, but it's good, it's really good.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:09

Yeah. So yeah, we just kind of talked forever about that, and like my mom really doesn't care, but she humored us, and that was nice of her. It was nice. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:20

I like your mom.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:22

Cool mom. Yeah. Anyway, yeah, it's always it's always fun, like actually going and talking with real life people.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:31

Cause like it's I mean, it's also good to come home from work and just stay home for the rest of the night and decompress, but I always feel good when I actually like, you know, have other human interactions other than people at work.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:43

So and me, yeah. Yeah. No, I get it because I also am like don't like to go out and really socialize. And but you will be like, let's go. And I'll be like, okay. And I always have a good time.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:00

You have a fun family.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:01

So that helps. Yeah, it does help. All right, tell us your war member. We'll wait. Text us. Yep. We got time. Or just like email us at jessinhids at gmail.com or get in our Discord cord, wow, Discord server. We have a whole channel dedicated to war members. Yes, we do. Or if you just if you know us, just like send us a message and tell us about a war member.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:33

I would love that. I love when people tell me good things. Yeah. Our War Members channel in our Discord is one of my favorite channels.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:40

I know. It's it's very cool.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:42

Also, if you feel like you need a war member, if you're having a kind of a crappy time and you want someone to send you war members, you can get in our Discord channel and people will like get in there and cheer you up.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:54

Yeah, they'll shower you with uh cute animal pictures or gifts or like whatever whatever you need. Yeah, I love it. Encouragement, comfort, anything.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:07

We're all pretty cool. Yeah. I love our little community.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:11

Yeah, me too. It's fun. You should join us. Yeah. Okay. We're gonna wrap it up. This is a shorter episode. That's okay. It's about an hour and 18 minutes long. Okay. Well, it's not bad. Yeah, hour twenty. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:26

Should we riff a little bit longer and drag this out? Um, also, if you'd like, um, I will say if you like uh listening to people play kind of easy simple DD, we have another podcast. Oh, well, yeah, let's do a plug for our other podcast. It's called The Tale of Two Kobolds, and it's about two little kobolds who were with an adventuring party and got separated. And it's the story of them finding each other again.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:54

They're best friends. It's I'm having a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:57

Yeah, I need uh I'm DMing the next episode, so I need to figure out what little Bang's gonna do. Yep. Yep, you do.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:08

And then I need to figure out what Fizz is doing next in August.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:12

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:12

But that's just once a month. Yeah. On the first of the month.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:16

Yeah. So it's really not gonna take long at all to get caught up. Nope. We only have four episodes out now. Three. Three. Three episodes. There's been uh two Fizz and one bang. Yeah. So yep.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:31

It's a lot of fun. So if you like that sort of thing, or if you've never listened to anything and you think you might like it, you can come listen to us. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:38

Like if you've never like if you don't know DD, it might still be fun to listen to. I don't know. Maybe.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:48

It is. It is. If nothing, you could just you could just chuckle at us trying to do voices, character voices.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:53

That's always fun. Yeah. Uh yeah. I think it's hilarious that for a hot minute I was like, I'm gonna go into voice acting. Yeah, same.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:03

I was like, oh wait.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:04

No, I only have the one voice.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:06

Yep. Uh but we have fun with it, and that's all that really matters. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:12

I like it. It's fun. Anyway, a tale of two cobalt, you can find it everywhere you can find this podcast. So yeah, we're out there. Yay! Yay! Thank you for listening. Talk to you next time.