Stories of Deliverance | Jackie Afriyieb

On this episode of the Modern Disciple Podcast, Stories of Deliverance. We dive into depression, suicide, and the intervention from God. We pray this episode blesses and delivers anyone going through anything similar. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Viewer discretion is advised. The following discussion contains references to suicide and self-harm. This content explores various struggles within the Christian walk, including personal mental health struggles and thoughts or attempts of suicide. If you are struggling with distressing thoughts or need immediate support, help is available right now. In the United States, call or text 98i8 to reach the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline. Or visit 988Lifeline.org. You can also text home to 741741 to connect with a crisis counselor 24 hours a day, seven days a week. For international support, you can find a local helpline through Befrienders Worldwide or the International Association for Suicide Prevention. You are not alone.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

It's your boy Mike. And I'm Alan. And today we have a very special guest. If you guys remember, we this is the first ever guest that we had. She's back again. We're gonna talk about some good stuff. If you don't mind to introduce yourself, uh Jackie.

SPEAKER_05 1:15

My name is Jackie.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

So how you been since the last episode, Jackie?

SPEAKER_05 1:20

Pretty good. Pretty busy, but good.

SPEAKER_01 1:23

But how are you really though?

SPEAKER_05 1:29

I'm good. I'm good. Just trying to figure out what life as adult, an adult, a young adult that makes money now, and is trying to make her own decisions and stuff, like what that's gonna be like. But it's good. It's been a learning experience, I'd say.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

How about you, Z?

SPEAKER_03 1:50

Navigating as an adult, it's hard, man. I'm not even like the full adult with wife and kids, so you're pointing at me like I have a wife and kids yet.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

I'm crying.

SPEAKER_03 2:02

But yeah, I'm not the full adult with wife and kids, so I can only imagine. So just building myself to get there.

SPEAKER_02 2:09

Yeah, I'm good as well. Just busy. A lot of things trying to get done this year, this summer. So trying to navigate time. That's really what I'm gonna focus on right now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

Uh for me, I feel like life's been been slow, but I think it's been slow for a reason. But I'm kind of not using the slowness for for good. Because right now, I don't I don't have an extreme amount of stuff happening, which means that I should be reading and praying more, but it's it's kind of the opposite. I've been watching more Netflix, Amazon, sports, Hulu, um, sleeping, rather than you know, praying more. But I've been getting back in the groove of reading and praying. Um and yeah, so that's that's pretty much it for me. So with that being said, we're gonna go straight into something that I just saw. Um, and it's a uh icebreaker, you know, to break the ice a little bit. It's been a while since we've had Jackie on the episode, on the podcast, rather. So it says, and we can go around this way. So it says, um, if you and Jesus hosted a podcast, who would be your first guest and why?

SPEAKER_03 3:28

You know, I gotta ask a question to clarify. Like, it could be any biblical character, or we taking like people like it can be anybody you want, like anybody.

SPEAKER_01 3:38

It could be a character in the Bible, it could be a historical figure, it could be it could be me, it could be Alan, it could be anybody.

SPEAKER_03 3:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 3:48

Alan? Um, I would I would do with with David. I want to, you know, talk to David, see what was going through his mind through all those songs, because he was going through a lot. Just learn from him. Yeah, I picked David.

SPEAKER_03 4:07

For me, I would say God the Father. I think that's like so smiley. I think that's like a little more obvious, but why, but I don't see why not. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 4:24

Um probably Peter from the Bible. I feel like a conversation on like their dynamic and what it was like in the three years of Christ's ministry, all of that, and everything he learned after Christ rose to heaven, like all of that. I feel like a nice conversation with Peter and Jesus would be nice.

SPEAKER_03 4:48

Okay, I feel like that's a good choice because like Peter like definitely has some changing that needed some things in his mind that needed to be changed. So I feel like he's like us, like kind of like that example.

SPEAKER_01 5:03

You you guys are gonna make me feel bad about my answer because I I actually had time to think about this. And the person that I would have had I'm gonna say love to have, because that's crazy to say, would have had if if me and Jesus hosted a podcast, I'll I would have the devil on the podcast. The reason I would have him on the podcast is so I could ask him why does he think he can he can do the things he does, or even like who who are you to challenge Jesus Christ? I want to speak to him and have like a have like a conversation with him, but like scold him, be like, yo, but what do you like why? Like what are you doing?

SPEAKER_03 5:41

The answer will even drive you more.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

I just want to see his rap like like how are you actually thinking about these things? You know what I'm saying? Like that's the reason why.

SPEAKER_05 5:55

How do you think Chris would respond in the conversation?

SPEAKER_01 5:57

Uh just because I probably wouldn't say nothing. You've just been looking at me like like why? But that's what I that's what I thought. And I I don't know why even I was the first person I was like, you know, let me let me question this guy. Um alright, so with the ice a little bit broken, we're gonna go straight into dilemmas. Um take it away. Alright. Um second.

SPEAKER_02 6:25

Alright, so for the first one I have, it's called Ministry versus Relationship with God. And the dilemma is a believer serves constantly in church. They are involved in worship, media, prayer meetings, and youth events every week. However, outside of church activities, they barely pray, pray, read scripture, or spend personal time with God. And the question is, can someone truly be spiritually healthy if they are active in ministry but disconnected privately from God?

SPEAKER_01 6:59

I feel like that's actually a lot of that's actually a lot of people.

unknown 7:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

Is that a lot of people are doing things in church, they're busy, they they're all these worship nights, they're leading in the church, serving in the church, but back at home behind closed doors, they're not praying, they're not reading, they're not doing anything. Which is kind of the point of ministry, I feel like, is what you're doing in your closet is what should um empower you while you're doing all these things out in public. So I don't I don't think it's healthy. Is that the question? If it's healthy, I I don't think it's healthy. No. Short answer for me. Well, long answer, but I was gonna say I agree.

SPEAKER_03 7:50

I feel like, especially as someone who has like gone through it, the only thing happens is like you get drained and drained because you're trying to keep up with the expectations of like other people. Instead of actually like trying to cultivate that relationship with your creator. It's just a cycle of like and most people don't do it like knowingly, I would say. It's like an unknowing thing where like you get so busy, you get so busy doing this, doing that. Next thing you know, you go home, go straight to sleep, nothing else. You wake up, do the same thing over and over again, and then you realize it's been a week, I haven't prayed, two weeks, I haven't read. So it's definitely something that's not healthy, at least to problems. Like I feel like mental health, especially. We will speak about it later, but at least the problems like in that field too. A lot of imposter syndrome and yeah.

SPEAKER_05 8:44

Yeah. Um I definitely don't think it you'd be spiritually healthy um at all, actually. Um you're kind of ignoring the source um of your strength and your ability to even really get far. It's like you can only do so much in ministry on your own accord. But if you're not feeding yourself, then at some point that's gonna show.

SPEAKER_01 9:11

And I also even think that there's a reason why in the Bible it says that you've done this in my name, you've done that in my name, but depart from me, I don't know you. And that like that's scary to even think about that. That you can be in the church 25 years, you've swept every floor in the church, you've you've sung every hymn in the church, you've done this, you've done that, but yet what are you gonna hear? Oh, I don't know you, and it's like, wait, what? Like, I've been doing all this for 20 years, yet Jesus is telling you that he doesn't know you, so it's kind of like prioritize that relationship and prayer over just doing things in the church, and I think the time you spend in private will show when you're in church and and even in how you serve as well. So, uh, how about you, Alan? I don't think you give your input.

SPEAKER_02 10:04

Yeah, I agree with what everybody's saying. Um, as a musician myself, I feel like you can play good and sound good, but have no impact if you're not doing those things in a private place. So that's where I would go. But I have another question on that.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:19

Do you think that person should take a step back from what they're doing in ministry? I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 10:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 10:30

I'm gonna say no. Because you're supposed to just read the scripture anyway to survive as a Christian. As a as a child of God, you know what I mean? If you don't know him and you're not meditating on his word, like it won't it won't mirror in your life, not for the sake of other people, but for yourself. I feel like to step away, I mean everyone is case by case, but I feel like the solution here would be to get in your word and start praying.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

Amen. I I'm more of the school of thought of her as well, too, because I feel like like she said, it is a case by case, but for me, I would say if if that was me and and I was in that shoe, I I think stepping away wouldn't do more good, it would do more harm than good for me. So it it's it's literally just as easy as okay, I can still be doing these things in church, but I just need like a realignment. And it's literally just that simple.

unknown 11:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 11:39

And I got one more. This one is called Unequally Yoked. Two believers begin dating. One is deeply committed spiritually, consistently pursuing God and growing in the faith. The other believes in God, but lacks discipline, consistency, and spiritual hunger. They still join and love each other. Can that relationship survive when two believers are spiritually disconnected, even even though both identify as Christians?

SPEAKER_01 12:09

Does anybody want to start?

SPEAKER_03 12:12

I'm like I don't know what to say, really. Like when you s when you take this like the the saying equally yoked, does it are you taking that as meaning like we have to be like almost exactly like the same in whether it's prayer life, discipline, like but I think one thing that that they said, especially in what Alan just read is number one, they both believe.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

So the fact that they don't they both believe gives me something to work with. So if I'm here and you're here, but we both believe I can help you reach where I am, or or or if we're just praying together, we're fast together, we're reading both together, like not that I become your like your mom or your dad that's forcing you to read, but if if I say that I really love you how I love you, let's let me hold you to some degree of accountability and try to help you if I truly say that this is the person that I want to be with, and nobody's forcing me to be with that person. So I think that that's where you can help that person out, but also in reverse, that person also wants to, you know, be where you are or or or be more than what they currently are. That's just what I think.

SPEAKER_03 13:37

I just thought of when he said the lack of spiritual hunger. Like, is there anything like you can do about that as a potential love interest, really? A lack of spiritual hunger from that person, like the saying, like you could bring like a horse to the water, but you can't force them to drink is kind of like in that sense where like can you really force that person to become like more spiritually like hungry to focusing more on Christ?

SPEAKER_01 14:11

I feel like we need like somebody like Richard to come answer that question. Cause like for me, like what I'm thinking and how I'm thinking about it is that okay, like I don't think you you can't force somebody to to have a hunger or fire for God. I believe that's kind of the Holy Spirit's job, but one thing you can do is intercede for that person. So so if if the only thing that I I feel like I would be able to do at that time for somebody that's that I'm interested in, that's lacking, that's again, they're a Christian. So it's not as if they've rejected the idea of God, they rejected the idea of Jesus, they maybe just be struggling. So my job is to again hold them accountable and intercede for them that oh God, like like I'm praying to intercede for this person, let the Holy Spirit have its way with them. So that's that's how I would say that.

SPEAKER_03 15:03

So is that kind of thing where like I'll revisit in the future?

SPEAKER_01 15:07

Kind of I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 15:10

Like what do you guys think? I don't know, like becoming friends, like doing the things like Bible studies, maybe prayers together, then seeing in the future, maybe like revisiting that love interest.

SPEAKER_01 15:21

What do you guys think? Or is everybody looking at me?

SPEAKER_03 15:23

I I think I love you. Yeah, the easiest person to look at.

SPEAKER_02 15:28

I think the first thing you should do is pray to God and see if this person is even right for you. Because once you get that answer, I think you know where to take the next step. Because if God says yes, then you can take as much time as you need to help them grow with you. But if they're not the right person, then you kind of just I don't say you're wasting your time because you could be put in their life to help them grow, not as their love interests. There's someone to be in their life, but yeah, just pray to God first and see what he says. That's what I would do.

SPEAKER_03 15:58

I agree.

SPEAKER_05 16:00

I agree.

SPEAKER_01 16:02

All right, with that being said, let's just let's let's go into our main topic. So obviously, we have a guest here. Uh, we have Jackie here. She works in psychology.

SPEAKER_05 16:15

Yeah, I'm a school psychologist.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

She's a school psychologist, she works with children. Um, and today we're gonna hear about her story, about the things that she's dealt with, and by the grace of God, through um what she's gonna speak about, a lot of people will be delivered from the same same things that she was delivered from in the mighty name of Jesus. So, one verse slash anchor verse that I wanted to bring up today specifically is it says, Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable, perfect, will of God. So, one thing that I always say is that the first place that the devil was gonna try to attack you is in your mind. And once he has a hold of your mind, that's kind of when troubles start to begin. Because not only are you not able to recognize who you are, you're not able to recognize even God. And if you don't recognize God, how can you recognize who you are if we were made in the same image and likeness that God um is? And then even at that tool, when the devil comes to attack your mind, um you also perceive things and other people not even how they are. So, with that being said, um let's give Jackie reigns. You could go ahead, Jackie.

SPEAKER_03 17:51

I kind of I even had a question. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, go ahead. I was gonna ask too then that kind of battle of the man. I we spoke about it like at our previous set before. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 18:00

And and that was the episode she was on, I believe, actually. Funny enough.

SPEAKER_03 18:04

Oh, really? I believe so. OG member, but I was gonna say that. Do you think that this idea there's like an identity identity crisis because not necessarily because of the devil, but the way society is now leads people to not know their identity. So we see people living in falsehood, we see people living in realities that just aren't it's their own personal reality, it's their own personal truth, and it's all like away from the will of God.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

I think it's literally as easy as if you don't know God, how can you know yourself? So if we're living in a world that Jesus Christ Himself said that would reject him, and they're rejecting God Himself, how like how would you expect otherwise of them to even know that okay, this is who I am, this is what the word says I am, this is who the word says I am. So I definitely believe what you're saying is is is exactly how it is.

unknown 19:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:03

Cause even those who are like not even those who are in the body of Christ, I would say there's huge struggles with self-esteem, there's huge struggles with imposter syndrome. These are all things that like is not from God. But ultimately it hinders your growth as a Christian. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 19:22

Yeah, I feel like at least for me, um the way that I grew up was just to become a Christian and to live as a Christian for a really long time. Um, and it wasn't until life got hard that I realized the b biggest, like the true lesson in life was finding my identity in Christ. Um, because essentially that for me again reinforced everything I already knew about him and opened a whole new door to how he sees me um and how I even got here in the first place with him. Um and I tell a lot of people all the time something that the enemy really counts on is you not knowing who you are and whose you are. Um it's very easy to drop certain habits like reading scripture when you don't understand the the impact of even reading just a small section of scripture every day or just trying to seek Christ. Um a lot of people get distracted by a lot of things. It might be like a low self-esteem, it might be um maybe another identity that you've picked up, you find something else is more important, but yeah, I find that your identity in Christ is one of the big biggest things a person can un unfold in their relationship with him.

SPEAKER_03 20:51

I liked what you mentioned too, and like Isha mentioned it a little before where like ultimately like the first attack in your mind is to get you away from reading the word. And because that's where like ultimately the answers are. So if the devil could take you away from reading, if the devil even a little bit a day, like he can basically like knock you wherever he wants to.

SPEAKER_05 21:13

Exactly. Because you don't know what God would say about the situation, yeah. Kind of just living life as is.

SPEAKER_01 21:21

So I I want us to step back a little bit because I really want you to tell your story, right? Because so uh I'm just gonna give like a brief overview. So um, if you guys remember our previous episode, the battle of the mind, um Jackie had spoken about how she had dealt with suicidal thoughts and things like that. And I wanted her to speak about that specifically, and then how she essentially got delivered out of that. Because I know that there's a lot of people that deal with suicidal thoughts. Deal with not feeling enough, deal with just feeling depressed and oppressed and things of the sort. So if you don't mind, just open up the floor.

SPEAKER_05 22:11

Yeah. Um I actually when you when you're saying deliverance, I actually like mentioning that I don't get like deliverance often, if that makes sense. That like laying of hands and like manifestation thing. So um I don't want anyone to feel like those thoughts were like delivered out of me. I owe my deliverance from that part of my life solely on the transformation of my mind through the word of God. Um to put it in one story is kind of like hard.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

We have time.

SPEAKER_05 22:56

Because I don't really um I didn't really know when it like started. Let's say it started with like self-esteem issues and like body image, um comments that other people would make since I was like a kid, um about how I looked, how I talked. Um even my friendships were not the healthiest. And I'm I'm talking all the way back to like elementary school, middle school, right? Like always being conscious of who's around me, who could say something about me, why they'd say it, how I could fix it, how I'm presenting myself, like those thoughts that like constantly consumed my mind. Um then I also noticed that disappointment was a huge thing too, and it wouldn't really help the self-esteem issue. So if I'm already consumed in how I'm seen and how I'm portrayed, getting disappointed or me disappointing somebody else, um definitely didn't help. I can say the um this all started with like self-harming. And I think I was wanna say 11, 12, um not in the more like violent way that it turned into. Back then it would just be like maybe like scratching myself or something like that. Um and that subsided for a little bit. Um because at some point I kind of just took in the identity or the personality of just being the other person, and I'm just gonna assume that nobody likes me, nobody wants to be around me. Um as healthy as I thought that was, it wasn't really healthy. Um then I got to college and it didn't get any better. Um, because now there's more people, there's new people on that campus at URI. Whatever people said about you spread and spread fast. Not to say that it happened to me, but I'm very observant.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

It happened to me. Yeah, I'm one of them. Well, go ahead.

SPEAKER_05 25:24

You were one of them. Like it spreads fast, and your reputation kind of gets built for you. So I was very quiet in college. It was very I kept very much to myself. Um, when it came to going out, I rarely would, and if I did, I was out for a little bit and then I'd go back home because I couldn't take like the social pressure of things. Um, I wouldn't say like the suicidal thoughts were like really big, maybe my first two years of college. I think it was after COVID, actually. Um after dealing with loss and more insecurity and the back and forth of like, you know, you got this, you can fix your life. You like right, just tap into God. This entire time. I I mean, I've been a Christian, I've been a believer since I was about 11 years old as well. So like I've never not had God in the picture. Just my understanding and how I related to him changed over time. Um I'd say the first time there's gonna be a trigger warning, right? It's okay. It's okay, it's okay, it's okay. I say the first time um I attempted to end my life was in college. It was my senior year, actually. Um, so all this time had just been like the cycle of self-harm and drug and alcohol abuse and stuff, um, even like a porn addiction, like all of that to kind of like ease all the things that were going on in my mind. Um, but yeah, my senior year of college, there was actually a a turning point too in my relationship with Christ because that's the year I locked in the most I've ever locked in. That's when I started Pensa URI on that campus. Um it was post-COVID, so I felt very alone. I didn't really have my friends on campus anymore, I didn't have anyone to really talk to. I was serving in church like all the time. So my schedule was very busy. I was an RA as well, like I didn't have time for myself. Um, but I would make time to just read scripture to talk to Jesus, and again, like there's a positive in that time in my life because that's the year I can say like I heard the most from God I ever had before. Um, and I didn't feel so alone, but there was just this one night where it got really bad. Um yeah, and I tried to I try to end my life with um pills. Um but it didn't work, not because anyone stepped in. Christ stepped in, if that makes sense, right? Like I didn't hear like an audible voice, but it was more so like somebody was speaking to my heart in that moment and um I was put to sleep. I can say that's one thing. One thing the Lord will do consistently is if I'm not supposed to engage in something, it's more of like a protection thing. I'll probably go to sleep. Um that was the first and last time for a while, and then um an episode like that happened again in December of 2023. Um where again it was big life events, major disappointment. I'm not locked in the way I should be. My habits have gone haywire. I'm doing the most I'm doing the craziest things, but I'm still on stage. I'm still leading Bible studies, I'm still encouraging people, I'm still praying, even myself. I'm just trying to like hold it together for other people and for myself. Um, and with my own family as well. And I tried to do the same thing um again. This time I like took the medication. Um luckily the Lord stepped in again, but he used somebody to help me at like the very last minute. Um, and that person stayed by me that entire time, and we turned it around from there, and to the glory of God, there hasn't been an episode. I don't really have that desire anymore. I love my life. Yeah. Um that's my story in short. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

There was one thing that you kept saying in in in the story. You were talking about moments where you felt kind of alone and you felt isolated, and while you were talking, and that's kind of what stood out to me the most is isolation. Why do you think that's in your specific situation? Why do you think that that's something that the devil tries to use often is that tactic of isolation?

SPEAKER_05 30:52

Um after much like reflection of myself, I learned that I don't like being alone. Um I prefer not to. I can, or I'm learning how to like be alone again, but I prefer not to. Um just that isolation and just sitting in quiet didn't do anything for me because that's when like my thoughts were like the loudest. I didn't have my busy schedule, I didn't have TV, I didn't have another person, a phone call, you know what I mean, a group trip or whatever it is to kind of distract me from my own personal struggles. So if I was by myself with nothing else, odds are I'm sitting there and I'm probably breaking down crying. Um, and I think the enemy enjoys spaces like that because that's where that's the place you're expected to kind of pick up what you know about yourself. That's where you're expect expected to pick up what you know in scripture, what you know about Christ. Um that's also the place where the Holy Spirit speaks um almost instantly. But if you're not, if you're already living a life where he's kind of silenced and his voice is high-key quiet to you, um the devil can come in and say anything and persuade you of anything. Because there's nothing reinforcing you living, you being okay, you having purpose, um, and kind of feeding your mind, heart, and spirit with the right things with the truth. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:39

In in terms of of of scripture and things that would help you while you were going through all of these episodes and things like that, what what would you say was the biggest contributing factor and and in terms of scripture, what kinds of scripture were you reading to kind of I don't want to say soothe you, but but help you while you were going through these tough times?

SPEAKER_05 33:09

Um at first it was the memory memory verses that we would learn in like Sunday school, right? Um he has promised he'll never leave you nor forsake you. The no weapon formed against me shall prosper. Um that's where it started. I didn't really have a good bank of not to say the scriptures weren't good, but I didn't have like a well-versed like bank of scriptures to use to encourage myself, um, and again to reinforce the truth of who I am and the life that I live in Christ. Um I'd say this the people that the Lord has sent in my life in the last five years have been a huge factor. I see the way that He uses them. Um I see the way He speaks through them. Um and honestly, like that commitment to growth and getting help has caused me to rely on like new scriptures. Um I want to say in that same year, 2023, I dedicated myself, like committed myself to reading the New Testament because a very I was a very old testament type of person. I don't know why. It really clicked that um the New Testament would be important to me. Um I used to just read the Bible just to read it, just to say that like I can get through the book, I can I can read. There was no like level of understanding. Um but the book of Romans changed me.

SPEAKER_01 34:58

How should I explain it?

SPEAKER_05 35:00

It revealed purpose, it revealed the purpose of Christ, it revealed what I have in him, it revealed how powerful faith is. Um it's it's a lot that I would say that book is a lot to chew, but there's so much that Paul poured out in there that really get a believer together to understand who they are in Christ, what they have in him. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:39

You I'm not even sure how to phrase this question, but you said there was a time where you were still leading, you were still on stage, you were still doing things like that. So what would you say to somebody that that that feels like because they are they are struggling with those kind of things, those kind of thoughts and suicidal thoughts, or or or doing things that they may they should not be doing, and yet they're still leading, they're still doing this. What and they feel like, oh, like I shouldn't be doing this because of what I'm going through, how I'm thinking, how I'm feeling. What would you say to those kind of people?

SPEAKER_05 36:21

Um to give yourself grace. Um isn't true. It might not be true. Right? I could have told myself I don't need to be leading worship, there's no impact here because of what I'm going through, but I recognize that as like an area that the Lord has called me to. Um so I'm happy I didn't deny myself of that. I will say I did take a year off um to kind of just get back to myself. My only would advise would really just be to get help from a not a god just a godly person, but like a Christ-centered like mentor who can walk with you, pray for you and pray with you, and then open scripture. I feel like for me, a lot of it was that like over feeling of overwhelmingness to read the whole book or read the whole chapter and to read this many by by this amount of time and get that dumb. But it got to a point where I had to tell myself to stop caring about it because nobody's forcing these strict rules and expectations on me. Um you just take it one day at a time. Even if you're reading a verse a day, that's more than the next person who's not reading anything. Right?

SPEAKER_01 37:59

So I I know that there's there's people that are that struggle with finding somebody that they can confide in and trust when going through things like this. Like even me myself, when I was I was looking for somebody to mentor me for such a long time with the questions that I have. As you know, like obviously, like we're all African here, like like there's aunties and uncles in the church that you will ask certain things and they'll look at you and say, Oh, you're a demon, you're a demon. Like, you're going through this. It's like no, like this is actually like a question, like this is how I'm feeling, right? And like it's it's it it brings me back to the episode that we had last week about um uh discipleship, and it's kind of like how how how would you advise somebody to go out and look like and look for that help? Because obviously, some people don't agree with therapists and things like that. Sure, like you don't have to have a therapist, I suppose, but there's a reason why you're not on this earth by yourself, you're with other people because you like no matter how smart, strong, or whatever you think you are, this like you're not on this earth by yourself. Everybody needs help. So, like, how would you advise those type of people that are having trouble seeking help in those areas or those places?

SPEAKER_05 39:24

It's funny that you mentioned therapist because I think the last time I was here, yeah, yep, as a as a mental health professional, I told people you don't have to get a therapist. You don't, you still don't have to. Um, but if you were to get one and you're a believer and you're a Christian, get one that first and foremost matches that expectation, right? Anything that's said to you would have to be scriptural, would have to be biblical and led by the Holy Spirit. Um for me, I can't say that I went out of my way to go look for someone. Um again, like my problem was like isolation, right? So I'd gotten into the habit of just suffering alone. Um I just asked Jesus to send somebody to help me. Cause again, I'd gotten to the point where it was like, if if nobody comes, then I'd I really don't know how long I'm gonna survive. Um and he sent he sent somebody. He sent someone um who's he's not just like a mentor to me. He's like a it's like a weird big brother father type of dynamic that we have. Um and then he still guides me today, he still pushes me today. Um yeah, I don't think I went to go search. I wish I had advice. I I guess if I could put myself in that person's shoes who's going to look, first my my first and foremost thing would be how serious are they with their walk with Christ? Because the last thing I would want is for someone who's playing Christian to come and lead me, and now I've got a new problem. Um but like scripture says, right, like you will know them by their fruits. Like it it really won't take long before you know someone really isn't well versed in the word and they really don't know what they're talking about.

SPEAKER_04 41:43

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 41:43

Um, or they really do, and they really care. Um, I would also say, like, don't run away and hold on to the people who are committed to like you, like checking in on you. Um, and I think my biggest thing is following the Holy Spirit's direction when it comes to you. Um, there are a lot of times I won't say anything. Um uh something might have happened, or maybe I'm going through it mentally and suffering in silence. And I'll just get a call. And I'll just get the call that it's like, I you're, you know, I mean your name came up, or something is I felt like something was wrong, or I had a dream about you last night, and I was told to come and call you. Like, what's going on? Those are the kind of things I don't ignore because when I'm in prayer, I tell Christ, hey, you tell my business to the people who can handle my business. Yeah. Um, and when they come to me, I won't push them away. So get specific with Christ, lean on him first and foremost. Um, don't reject the help of people who are coming to try to help you. But it it is a little hard too when you're in that spot to be like super discerning. But again, follow the fruit of the person who's trying to help you.

SPEAKER_01 43:07

And and to that point, I think that's something that a lot of us do when we're we're kind of in trouble, when we're going through X, Y, and Z thing, and we get like a call from somebody who's actually asking us, oh, like, how are you doing? Like, how are you trying to you know um remove you out of that room and that dark place that you're in, but then you kind of feel like, oh, this person doesn't understand me, and and you kind of in a sense, um, what do what do you call it? Um sabotage yourself by not extending your hand back to the hand that's trying to grab you. And I feel like that's something a lot of us do when we're in trouble is rather than get back up, we we tend to stay down, right? Like, and that's a big issue that I've noticed with myself at the least, is when I'm going through X, Y, and Z thing, I I I want to go through it by myself. I don't want anyone calling me. I don't want anybody reaching out to me. But even with that, that's not even me for all. Like, I I I do want the help, but it's like I don't want to say it's the enemy, but I also feel like it's also my mind trying to act like, oh, like you you're stronger than you actually are, so you're good. But when that help comes and I accept it, it's really like a like a a breath of fresh air. That okay, like I know that I'm not in this by myself. I know that somebody actually cares about me and and has my interest at heart as well, and it's not just for show. Oh, were you gonna say something?

SPEAKER_03 44:51

Yeah, no, that's literally like the exact question I had to like isolation. Like, how like, and all you guys can chime in, where like, how is it possible that someone can feel isolated when you have brothers and sisters, friends and family around you, and then that person still feels so isolated.

SPEAKER_01 45:08

Let me tell you something. When when I was in the world, you guys know I used to party, I used to do this, and you you you you used to do that, I would be in a room with a hundred people, and I would still feel alone. Yeah, so now imagine when I'm going through something and I have my brothers, I have my family, I have my dad there, and yet I still feel alone in that time. It's kind of the same thing as what I had felt when I was around all those people, but I still felt alone. So that's my answer to that.

SPEAKER_03 45:39

Looking for help. Would you say like a factor that really stops you from reaching out to maybe the right support system is maybe like fear, like fear or like fear of being ridiculed, fear of people knowing your situation?

SPEAKER_05 45:55

For me, that wasn't it. For me, it was the lie that um no one would understand that I could explain myself, and people will look at me and just be like, okay, like what's the problem, or like, okay, it's an easy fix, right? Um so like kind of like you, right? Like, I was itching for somebody to come, it could have been anyone, and it's not to say that there weren't people present in my life. Uh like I said, like I surrounded myself with people, like I was actively in church. Yeah um I had a really great pastor at some point, you know what I mean? Like it was it was fine, but I just didn't feel like I was gonna be understood. And I think I guess it could be fear, right? I guess the fear is I'll pour my heart out to this person and nothing will come of it. So now the thoughts of okay, well now this person knows way too much. I didn't even get help, we didn't even pray. They just they just told me, you know, they either didn't understand or they just gave me like a one-liner. Yeah, they just gave me a one-liner and then sent me on my way. That for me was like, I'd rather just not say anything. Or, like I said, right, God, you send the person. So I'm not gonna talk unless you come to me first.

SPEAKER_01 47:20

I feel like for me it's it's a little bit different than that. I think, yes, it's fair, but that fear is also pride, right? I'm supposed to be able to go to God with certain things, but I'm not doing that. So, so so even with that, I I I feel like that's that's a form of pride in itself because I have a father. I know that I can go with to my father with everything. I'm I'm supposed to place everything under the feet of my father so that he can handle it, but yet I'm not doing that. I feel like that in itself is pride, and that was I was seeing myself kind of as as as as somebody that that's that's that's going through all of these things that nobody else has has ever gone through in the history of of human beings, which isn't true. Like, there's people that gone through way worse than what I feel, but because I'm the one that's going through it, I feel like my problem is the worst. I feel like nobody's gonna understand. I feel like I can't even bring that problem to God because how dare I be going through this? Like, why like I shouldn't be going through this? So how can I even feel like I'm good enough to bring what I'm going through to God? Does that make sense? Yeah, so yeah.

SPEAKER_05 48:34

I yeah, I can see it. Well, I mean, now that I'm on the side of things now, I can see that it there's a sense of pride, right? Even being as bold as to ask Christ to come to be that I'm not gonna move, yes. But um I think him that he's very gracious for sure and he's merciful, and he understands too, like the place that even that is coming from.

SPEAKER_04 49:01

Right.

SPEAKER_05 49:01

I think I was just telling my little sister the other day, like, we don't know what we don't know, right? Um, and I don't know Jesus to be the one to penalize his children who simply don't know anything beyond what they've got in front of them. Right. And it is a it is a daily thing, right? I didn't just assume I was gonna be past certain things and growing in the direction that I'm growing until I you know I mean until I got here and then you're able to reflect on it. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:36

Okay. So with that as well, so there's two more things because I know we're running out of time a little bit. So what what what resources can you give to people who are going through those kind of things? Like, do you have any resources or anything like that that can help anybody else that's going through this kind of thing? Practical resources, practical resources, spiritual resources, anything.

SPEAKER_05 50:01

I hate to be that person, and my only resource is scripture.

SPEAKER_01 50:05

Okay, man.

SPEAKER_05 50:06

And and again, that that trusted person who always bring you back to scripture and prayer. Um essentially the resource is Jesus, right? Because we don't want to get too caught up in our problems and mental health that we ignore the person who actually has all the answers. So I could give you all the the phone numbers, suicide hotline, and mobile crisis, and we can connect you to a therapist, and we could talk for hours and we could put the systems in place, but if Christ is not attached to that, you're missing a big piece to your freedom. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:54

The last thing that I wanted to ask you before uh before we left is what would you say to yourself that was going through this, what was it, like three or four years ago? Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 51:12

I would tell myself um that it's gonna be be okay and that he's not like God has not left you and he's not disappointed in what you're going through. And he wants to help you now like now more than anything. Um and that he does care. That he does care. It's not just about you the work that you do in the church and for his people, he's invested in you as much as he is about the church.

SPEAKER_01 51:58

And last thing, if like, or do you have like an email that if if somebody wanted to reach out to you about something like this, do you have one that they could reach out to you on this one? Like something about this for or no?

SPEAKER_05 52:11

Yeah, I have my my personal email.

SPEAKER_01 52:13

I have I don't know if you want to give your personal email on here, but I have personal email on here.

SPEAKER_05 52:19

But um, I mean, I don't know how you want to do that. I'd be my Instagram, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um my Instagram is at JCKS XX. So you can just send me a DM and we just go from there.

SPEAKER_01 52:38

Perfect. All right. Uh with that being said, um what are you guys looking forward to over the next two weeks?

SPEAKER_03 52:50

For me, over the next two weeks, I'm looking to really continue to pray and read, especially a lot more now that school is finished. Just finished the semester yesterday, so I'm gonna have a lot more time and want to use that time wisely. So that's what I'm looking forward to.

SPEAKER_02 53:09

Um I said I'm looking forward to the same thing, prayer and starting rehearsals for a program that I'm um planning for next month. I'm gonna use the program at my church, so planning rehearsing for that and all that stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:23

Uh for me, I'm looking forward to stop being lazy with certain things. Um yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_05 53:30

I'll go um looking forward to reading the Bible more um and more consistently and just getting closer and closer to the end of the school year because I'm tired.

unknown 53:46

Tired.

SPEAKER_01 53:48

Uh Alan, do you want to pray? Close us up.

SPEAKER_02 53:51

Yeah, I'll pray. Heavenly Father, we thank you for this day, O Lord. Thank you for each and every person here. Thank you, Lord. And just bring this here safely, O Lord. Thank you for this time we spent in your presence speaking about you and speaking about our experiences in life, oh God. As we came here, we talked about you know mental health issues and suicide, oh Lord. And we just want to pray that anybody who's listening, who may be dealing with some of the same things, whatever it is, oh Lord, we just pray that from what you heard today, may it just change for them, oh God. May they be changed from this podcast. May they see a turnaround in their life, oh Lord, in our lives as well, oh Lord. May you continue to watch over everybody listening here, everybody in here, oh Lord. Just protect us, watch over us, and just continue to guide us in any way you want to guide us, oh Lord. Just take control and have your way. In the name of Jesus, I pray. Amen. With that being said, it's Isha.

SPEAKER_03 54:40

It's your boy Mike.

SPEAKER_01 54:40

It's Alan.

SPEAKER_05 54:41

It's Jackie.

SPEAKER_01 54:43

We'll see you guys next episode.