Jesus Sees Your Browser History

Welcome to another episode of the Modern Disciple Podcast. In this episode titled "Jesus Sees Your Browser History" , we will be discussing:

1. Confusing Biblical Characters
2. Sexual Sin and prevalence of pornography.
3. Overcoming Church Hurt & Forgiveness

We hope you enjoy! Don't forget to Like, Comment, and Subscribe @ModernDisciplePodcast on all platforms. Instagram, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, TikTok, iHeartRadio, and YouTube!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Welcome to another episode of the Mindless of Podcast. It's your boy Isha. On this episode, we talk about a topic that a lot of churches shy away about talking, and some people feel shame about even bringing it up. The topic about pornography. On this episode, we are blessed with the presence of our older brother and mentor, Richard, where he gives us his insight and blesses us with his words. Stay tuned. So, with that being said, uh, we're gonna go straight into icebreakers. Um uh one question that I have well, uh I have four questions, but we're gonna do two of them. Okay, one of them says, Um, what's one biblical character you struggle to understand and why?

SPEAKER_03 0:52

Man, yeah, uh man. Um I'll go with the easy one, David. Um David exhibited um the qualities of a saved um human being, right? Like someone that has already experienced salvation. If you pay attention to his text um in Psalms, even Psalm 22, to where um he's speaking as if he is the one that is going through the death and the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. But then things that he'll say in Psalm 51, uh created in me a clean heart and restore in me a right spirit, and restore in me the joy of salvation. Obviously, I'm paraphrasing, and um cast me not away from your presence. Don't take your holy spirit from me. He lived a life, or from his text, it looked like he lived the life of somebody that had been saved, even though Jesus Christ had yet to come. Um, so it's almost as if the prophetic revelation of who God intended to make us was his reality, even though he had yet to experience that, or anybody on this earth had yet to experience it. So he's a very confusing character for me. Like the level of intimacy that he adapted with God allowed him to encounter and experience a side of God that in all through the old testament you don't see it. So yeah, very interesting.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

Mine is not that like that in-depth. I felt like one person I like struggle to understand is Peter.

SPEAKER_05 2:39

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

Especially like I constantly go back and think about how Jesus said that on this rock I will build my church. But then we see like how flawed he is as a person, how he has to be corrected multiple times. He denies Jesus, he's corrected with with like thoughts regarding the Israelites and then the versus the Gentiles, and how the Gentiles not keeping up with certain things of the law made them unclean in his mind. So I still kind of struggle because with all the correction, and I guess like we're all kind of the same as him in a sense where we like struggle with things so many times we keep failing over and over again. Someone has to correct us, the word has to correct us, and I don't know. I just struggled to understand because I felt like maybe reading it from like a kind of bird's eye view, everything is like obvious, but in like it just seemed like he was like flawed. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:38

Most definitely. I agree with that.

SPEAKER_06 3:40

I was gonna go with the easy one, Judas. Because Judas literally walked with the card on earth, saw everything he did, everything he said. At the end of the day, you still betrayed him for some money. It doesn't make sense to me. That's why I picked Judas.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

Okay. For me, well, because I obviously obviously had time to think a little bit. That was gonna be my first answer. My second answer is Enoch. And the reason why I was thinking about Enoch is how like how can you be so close to God that you don't even have to like die? And to me, it's it's kind of like okay, how how how do we reach that point to where we're we're uh inseparable from God? So that's that's why I I would choose Enoch. The next icebreaker is um if God sent you one text right now, what do you hope it says?

SPEAKER_01 4:39

God sent you one text right now, what would you hope it says? I immediately thought of the um parable of the steward, which is like well done, good and faithful servant. That's like what I would hope it would say. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:57

That's fair. I would hope that it said, here's a breakdown of the next five years of your life. You feel me? Like, and and yeah, like month to month, day to day, week to week, this is what you can expect. Uh, these are the traps, and this is how you can avoid them, you feel me? Um, you know, just a chat GBT kind of breakdown of the entire entire next five years, you feel me? Maybe 10, you know what I mean? But yeah, yeah, I wish you would say that.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

I feel like the way you would move move in that kind of like with that guidance is like say everything you touch is like gold. Yeah, obviously.

SPEAKER_00 5:37

You would move different, yeah. Like after having the gameplay, you're like, okay, no, yeah, I need that's it.

SPEAKER_04 5:42

You wouldn't even worry about the next step, bro.

SPEAKER_01 5:45

Like, even if your car crashed, you're like, we already know what's coming, you mean like do you think there's like it's like kind of like the railing, but do you think there's people who kind of operate in maybe like not five years, but in a shorter sense, maybe even a week, a day, a few hours.

SPEAKER_03 6:04

Yeah, I think anybody that is willing to wait on the Lord for the day is always advantaged to know what the day holds, right? Um, Jesus Christ knew the disciples that he should choose to become apostles because of the fact that he waited on the Lord all night, right? So, um, even I believe it's uh Ephesians chapter five, verse seventeen. Um it talks about you know, do not be ignorant, know the will of the Lord, right? So knowing the mind of God and the plans of God for your life is not supposed to be it's not supposed to be, you know, arbitrary, right? Like if you are willing to wait on the Lord, he is willing to speak to you about your day. I've experienced it at least, so can speak that up.

SPEAKER_01 6:53

So how would you say like that's different than like is it kind of like that kind of same feeling where everything you touch is like gold compared to like other days, or is it like assuredness in how like maybe not everything may go perfect in like a human sense, but it's an assuredness that you know like everything's gonna be like alright?

SPEAKER_03 7:14

Uh I think I'll preface it by saying that just because you know what's going to happen, it doesn't mean that it's the preferred thing for you or your preference per se, right? Um, so you know, just because you know your you and your boss are gonna get in an argument, maybe God is just telling you, like, hey, um, just have patience in this moment and don't let it derail you from the purposes that I sent you to the business, right? Because realistically speaking, you can crash out and you would be justified because maybe your boss is out of uh out of pocket, right? But the Lord revealed it to you so you can be of the right heart posture for when you encounter it. So in that moment, you don't feel like you're touching gold, right? But you feel prepared for what's about to come, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 8:02

And that's interesting because something happened last year. You guys know what I'm talking about. I'll tell you how that can't get but but something happened, and so a prophetess in my church said, Someone is going to upset you this week. Don't fall into it. It took it, and when I told you, I've never been that mad in my life where where it's like I'm somebody that's calm, but that would have been a moment that I crashed out. Yeah, but because I I I've already been like ready for something to happen, I wasn't as mad as I should have been. Right, right, right, right, right, right. It prepares you. That literally happened last year. It's crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 8:43

Oh, I would um want a text to be um, this is your purpose, this is how you should go about getting to that purpose.

SPEAKER_00 8:51

Yeah, yeah, fair. That's a good one. It's crazy because I even forgot my own question. Uh, if God sent you one text right now, what do you hope it says? I just wanted to say that don't worry, you're good. I think after that, I don't need to know more. I just need to keep doing what I'm doing. Just know, okay, like you're good.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

Like how your moving is.

SPEAKER_00 9:17

Yeah, because then if I get that text, I know, okay, I'm doing probably not everything right, but I'm doing I'm kind of doing what I'm supposed to do, and everything else I shouldn't even have to like worry as much. Like all of the things that I'm worrying about in my heart, it's just okay, just relax, you're good.

SPEAKER_03 9:38

Would you say that that's the same thing that the text scripture in in general says though?

SPEAKER_00 9:43

I I agree, but hearing it like Yeah, no, I get it. Personally, yeah, is is even though yes, like this book is personal to us, but I think hearing it in that moment would mean not more to me, but the world to me, like in that specific moment. I'll explain it.

SPEAKER_01 10:04

That's beautiful. No, I get it. But yeah, I get it. I've been kind of thinking about like what you had mentioned, like in terms of like, even if you know like what's ahead of you is not necessarily like great, like there's still like kind of like a piece you have. Yeah, yeah. I thought of like Paul when he said that I forgot what verse, but he was he was saying that I know like I'm going to face persecution where I'm going. And it's like, how can like I feel like human mind, it's hard to wrap your head around that. A human would just say, Don't go. Yeah, but he knows that this is the will of God for me, I must go.

SPEAKER_03 10:38

Yeah, I mean, they literally told him, like, yo, like this is what's gonna you're gonna be like this, this is what's gonna happen to you. He's like, yo, this the spirit expressly says, however, I must go.

SPEAKER_01 10:48

Is it like a kind of nonchalance then in at that point, or is it like I already know the outcome?

SPEAKER_03 10:55

So it's it's a disposition to truly fulfill the will of God past yourself, right? Um, I was talking to someone about this earlier today. Um, you know, if if anyone seeks to be my disciples, he must first deny himself, take up his cross and follow after me, right? So even when you know there's trouble ahead for you on your outer man, because you know that the will of God is for you to be in that place, you deny yourself. You pick up your cross and you follow after him. What is the after him? The mind of God is that you be there, right? So even though it will cost you something, it will cost you your freedom, as a matter of fact, while it's costing you your freedom, I have you in jail writing letters that will actually establish the Gentiles hundreds of years from now, right? Because if you're always ministering from town to town to town, when do you get to write letters to reflect and break down the revelation to which we all get to enjoy right now? Right? So, like that's I believe that that's the highest form of following God's plans for your life. It might not necessarily always result in your comfort, but it always results in God's will being executed. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 12:20

So kind of like Jesus on the cross.

SPEAKER_03 12:22

Yep. Yeah, perfect.

SPEAKER_01 12:25

That point, I feel like that point is that's crazy. Like it's like ultimately taking like do not fear those who can destroy the body, like to its like utmost limit. Like am I there yet?

SPEAKER_03 12:40

I don't know, but it's it I I think all of us have the checkpoint to where we're not there yet. Like we all, like, maybe all of us will be willing to sacrifice our life, but we will we all be willing to sacrifice the life of someone that we feel protective over, right? Let's just say for my wife, like I love my wife to death. I don't think that the ministry that God has placed on my life should be a consequence to her. You get me? So, like, if God asks me, okay, I want you to spend the next five days praying and fasting concerning this, don't you know entertain anything else. Sometimes I feel bad. Why? Because my wife is sitting on the couch by herself watching TV when she's actually looking for a companion. But realistically speaking, God said, Go lock in for five days, right? So it's it's it's a harder thing. Everybody has that one thing or those things where you know it's gonna really be expensive, and you have to cross that road of like, man, am I there yet? You feel me? Everybody has a am I there yet thing that they don't want to sacrifice?

SPEAKER_01 14:01

I always thought, like, is that a representation of something that is not a God before God in a sense, but it's something that you hold dearly that you're willing to kind of not listen to God for?

SPEAKER_03 14:16

Yeah, to an extent. I mean, even Jesus Christ was in the Garden of Gethsemane, and he was like, Nah, you know, if this cup can pass, let it. But nevertheless, not my will, but your will be done.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

Okay, it's interesting because like I had like a small glimpse of something like that last year happened to me. Again, these guys know about it. But but people wronged me, right? And God had me go go and go and apologize to the people that wronged me when I didn't do anything. Right. And mind you, I was in my room and I was physically like shaking because I was like, I was talking to the guy, I was like, no, I'm not like I'm not doing this. I didn't, I know truthfully in my heart that I did nothing wrong. So why would you have me go and apologize that I did not wrong? Yeah, but whatever. Mind you, this took months for me to even do it. Yeah, but I did it, yeah, and I was met with no response. I said to God, this is this is why why would you have me do this if this was gonna be the end end result? But even with that, like going through that taught me a lot. Yeah, that okay, like when God needs you to do something, just do it. Like, I shouldn't have even waited three months to do it. I should have just did it then and just cleaned my hands off of it and just moved on, and that's it. Yeah, but I took a long time, but that was kind of the closest thing I've gotten to that, to something like that.

SPEAKER_03 15:37

And those are the steps that kill you on the inside. They kill your pride, they kill your ego, they kill yourself, the identity that you find outside of Christ, those are the things that will kill you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, most definitely.

SPEAKER_06 15:57

Oh, okay. So now we're gonna do our dilemma portion of the podcast. So I have one dilemma. It's called the Missionary Son. A missionary couple spends decades overseas serving God. Their son grows up feeling neglected and eventually leaves the faith, believing ministry mattered more to his parents than he did. Were the parents faithful or did they fail their son?

SPEAKER_00 16:30

So the son feels that he's been neglected from his parents because they prioritized ministry over their relationship with him? Yeah, is that what it is?

SPEAKER_06 16:42

Were they faithful to God or were they did they fail their son?

SPEAKER_01 16:47

I feel like I don't have an answer now, but kind of like a immediate question I had was like, is isn't being a son like a father also a ministry?

SPEAKER_00 16:56

Or like I f yeah, I definitely would say so.

SPEAKER_01 17:01

But like when you have a calling that, like when you have a calling like that, I think Richard, you also brought up the point it was like a few months ago about was it Benny no Billy Graham? Tell the story and I'll be able to tell you. It was about like how Billy Graham's ministry got like so big, and like I think after he passed, his wife or his family like spoke about how like he wasn't like as present in the household.

SPEAKER_03 17:27

There was a cost to it, yeah, yeah. But you know, that's the power of you know raising a family as a a unit, right? Because like at the end of the day, there there has to be some trade-offs. You can't forget your home ministry because of your external ministry, and you can't forget your external ministry because of your home ministry, right? The real fact of the matter is being a husband is a ministry, right? But the purpose of that ministry is to fulfill God's mandate on you guys' life, right? A wife is a help meet to the husband, so you guys can accomplish, you know, tending to the field to where God has placed you guys, right? So discovering the ministry, understanding what the ministry is about. Sometimes you discover it prior to your spouse coming, sometimes you find out while your spouse is there, but it's your job as a man to communicate this is the vision, this is how we achieve it, and this is how we'll carry the family through it. Like, look at Noah, has an assignment from God, his wife is in it, and so are his children. So it's one of those things where like you when God places something on you, you have to be diligent to understand timing, you know, um systems, you have to understand the blueprint to how you achieve this. Because I don't believe it's God's will for you to lose your son to win a bunch of souls, right? So the question then becomes for me why wasn't your son with you? Right? Like, why didn't you take your son with you? Why didn't your wife stay home and you go and then you come home and sh and she goes, right? There's a better strategy than just oh, we both have to go at the same time. No, yeah, may perhaps sometimes, but again, who do you have at home that reinforces the parents' love to the child? Yeah, right. You feel me? Like where's grandma that will enforce it? Where's sister, brother, cousin, whatever you want to call it, that will reinforce the love for the child, right? Like, okay, hey, this thing I'm buying for you, your parents sent money for me to buy this thing for you, right? And then we speak frequently, hey son, why don't you come up during the summer times? You know what I mean? Maybe it's dangerous, okay. We gotta go home. Why? Because if somebody does not take care of his household, he's worse than an infidel, right? That's what that's what scripture says, right? So you have to be able to take care of your own, your household. Yeah, it's it it is the first requirement of ministry. Like any like when when Paul speaks to Timothy in Tim 1 Timothy chapter 2, it talks about if you want to be a deacon, if you want to be an elder, a bishop, or whatever you want to call it, you have to rule your house well. So you're trying to attend to the bride of Christ, but the aspect of the bride of Christ that you are actually fully responsible for, you're not handling it. Doesn't make sense. So, how I would answer the question is they've been faithful to an aspect of their ministry, but they've neglected neglected another aspect of their ministry.

SPEAKER_06 20:46

Do you think in that situation, God would give you the wisdom and how to navigate that situation and balance everything?

SPEAKER_00 20:52

Most definitely I was gonna say, like, the first like big mistake was that like the son doesn't understand their ministry, doesn't understand their ministry, and I would also say though, so so in terms of what he said, he said as a result of that the son left the faith, right? So then who like who's to blame for the son leaving the faith? Is it the fact that he didn't have examples of what of love? Because it seems as though they're kind of just saying, okay, this is more important than you, so you kind of have to just wait on the sideline for now, even though you're my son, this is more important than you. But then I also think that maybe the parents didn't show him Christ in the family, but they're showing uh Christ to other people outside of the family, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 21:47

Yeah, I would even question if the son really was part of the faith in the first place. Because realistically speaking, if you come to know Jesus and you say, Jesus, I am leaving you because of what. They did. They have not come to know Jesus. Simple fact of the matter. So maybe the son left the church. Yeah. Right? Yeah. But realistically speaking, to renounce the death, the burial, and the resurrection of Jesus Christ and his lordship for the sake of the fact that my parents weren't diligent to loving me. Nah, you haven't met Jesus yet.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

You haven't met Jesus. So what it's like. I was thinking like that would be on the parents then for not leaving the right structure.

SPEAKER_03 22:30

In the end, the the the thing says he left the faith because of them, right? At the end of the day, like even if his parents were not his primary disciplers, he came to the faith because he encountered the Lord Jesus. He believed that Jesus is real, right? That he is alive and well, even in this day. And in leaving the faith, he says, I know Jesus is real, alive and well, but I choose to turn my back on Jesus because of people. No matter how much somebody fails, right, to properly foster you in the faith. Now I understand we have babes in the faith, right? That haven't really seen Christ, right? That's why Paul says, imitate me as I imitate Christ. Babes need a physical example to then see who Christ is, right? So they need a physical example. That's why we have leaders of the church, that's why we have teachers of the word and all of that. Babes need to be fed the milk, just like a natural baby needs to be fed milk. Right. So I'm not trying to dispute the fact that there wasn't um there wasn't any need for the presence of the parents in that in in in regard to building their faith. And that's where I think what the that the failure is. The parents should have introduced a presence in his life, maybe they did, that would take it upon themselves as a responsibility to build the child in their absence, right? To build the child in their faith. If mommy and daddy have an international global ministry and they're all all over the place, you must have find somebody that can pastor your children. Simple fact of the matter. But in the end, when he stands before God, he will not be able to say, I left you because of my parents. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

Would you like equate that to those people that say that, oh, because I've been hurt by the church, I left Christianity because of that. Because then I feel like, yes, those elders and people that may have caused you to leave the faith, they are an authority and they represent are supposed to represent Christ to you. But I also think that you leaving because maybe that day they just did something that was wrong or something that may have been hypocritical. And then as a result, you'd say, Oh wow, I don't want to be a Christian anymore.

SPEAKER_03 25:17

I don't want to undermine undermine anybody because realistically speaking, everybody's case is different. My this response would be very different to somebody that was molested in the church. Yeah, for sure. You feel me? Makes sense. And it would be very different for somebody that had to witness maybe the church, profess love, but then act in hatred towards a family member, towards their family, or whatever the case may be. So I completely understand people that step away from the church, but in the end, when all this dust settles, there's only one question to answer. Do you believe that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior? Simple fact of the matter. Yes, you left the church. Yes, you are hurt. But even your emotions, even your emotions can speak to the carnality of the faith that you are practicing, right? Paul in 1 Corinthians chapter 1, 2, and 3, he talks to those, um, the people in the in Corinth, and he says, I want to give you strong meat, but seeing that you are still backbiting, going back and forth, choosing sides and all of that, I can't give you strong meat. You're still a babe. You're still carnal in your ways, right? So, realistically speaking, when your emotions get in the way of your practice in the faith, then that means two things. Number one, that you are a carnal Christian, right? Like you can't seem to get over how they treated you, how they made you feel. So therefore, you cannot express your faith well. But even worst of all, number two, there is a deity in your heart that far exceeds God's command in your life, which is even more dangerous. However, to the people that are have been church hurt and have gone through all these things, I always entreat people like you have to sit down with yourself, sit down with a therapist, sit down with a person in the faith that you trust, and we have to unpack everything that happened. Because this is one through one side one psychological truth. You may not remember what somebody did to you, but you always remember how you feel. So until we unpack everything that happened, right, in the context of your mature self now, what ends up happening is you've been walking around with this feeling your entire life, this anger your entire life, this betrayal your entire life, and we never really unpacked how to get that little girl, that little boy out of that trap, out of that room, and bring them to a healthy place where they can accept the faith and let go of the pain. Yeah. So that's good.

SPEAKER_01 28:00

Yeah. It's like it's not even like fully related to the question, but it was related to what you were speaking. Like, so is forgiveness always like I feel like when we speak about forgiveness, we it seems like it's a thing that happens like instantly. Like as a Christian, like when people speak about or just forgive, it's something that people seem like to take that it should be instant.

SPEAKER_03 28:25

No, not at all. No, no, not at all. That's the expectation, yeah. That's the desire. Um, it's it's like everything else that we find in Christ, because sometimes when we introduce God, we we want to introduce God in the magical sense, right? Like that Disney God that we we we were introduced to, like that b-be-di bobbity boo, yeah, I turn you into a princess over at night type thing. And it's not it's it's very it's it's a raw faith. Yeah, like look at look at a let's look at the Bible. We see Joseph in Genesis, he meets his brothers. The moment he meets his brothers, and he had finally has a time to be vulnerable with them, he breaks down and he cries, and he's like, It's me, Joseph. You sold me into slavery. But then when their father dies, and his brothers are expecting that he's gonna turn on them, they're like, you know, they're coming all um benevolent towards him, and he says, Don't even worry about it, because I know what the enemy meant for evil, God has turned it for our good. Right? So, realistically speaking, the man is resolved in understanding, hey, not all of this was actually you. However, I can also acknowledge the fact that I'm still hurt enough over the fact that I can only recognize you based off of the fact that I we have similarity, we look the same. There, there's common traits in us, but I don't know you past the fact that we look the same. And it's because you hated me so much that you will sell your own brother. What Joseph does what we can acknowledge past that point is that they wanted to kill him. My life is the way that it is. The pain that I went through is the way that it is because of the fact that you wanted to kill me. Because my father liked me. I didn't even choose. I didn't choose it. Okay, I bet. Let's look at David. He's supposed to be king. His father didn't even recognize him as a son. I bet. Let's look at Jacob. Esau comes back to the father and he says, Didn't you have any blessing left for me? And his father had to conjure up some type of um clause for the sake of his favorite son. Because every intent of his father was to release every blessing over his firstborn son. What happens to the second one? We can go on and on and on. Paul talks about the fact that he's been betrayed by a certain set of disciples later on in his faith, after they have seen all these miracles that he's done, after he has broken down all the mysteries in the gospel. He still talks about betrayal. You feel me? We can keep going about the the nuanced aspect of betrayal and how we are still supposed to forgive from the perspective that we were forgiven. It's not easy. It's never simple, it's never tomorrow. Even personally, I realize that one secret to forgiveness is to dedicate yourself to wanting the best for the one that hurts you. It hurts. And this is how you dedicate yourself to wanting the best for someone that hurts you. You pray for them, you pray for their wellness. You don't you don't just like cast the thought off. No, no, no. When the thought comes, you literally say, devil, I will continue to bless this person until this thing leaves my heart. You are literally conditioning yourself to love the one that hated you. It's not easy.

SPEAKER_00 32:29

It's not easy. Funnier enough actually brought that out because that was something that I was doing last week. Right? I was praying that I was like, okay, God, despite the fact that these people did hurt me truly, truly, and you know it, and you had me go and say and apologize to people, I pray that they come to the faith, the same faith that I've come to, the same knowledge that I've come to, the same understanding about things that I've come to, I hope the same thing is released upon them. And it's and and I never really uh expected myself to go and pray that kind of prayer for those people. But I think because now that I understand that, okay, like it literally says that if if you don't forgive, your heavenly father will not forgive you. Forgive you. So it's kind of like if it if I'm withholding my forgiveness from them, how much more is God going to do for me when I I I do things I'm not supposed to do every day? Yet this one thing happens and I can't forgive. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:32

And you know, when you know when when scripture talks about you know uh Matthew chapter 7, judge now lest you be judged, for in the same measure that you judge, you too shall be judged. Now think about it. If you're saying no, this isn't excusable, what they did isn't excusable, then does that mean that now God looks at what you did and makes it an excusable? You feel me? So forgiveness is almost impossible if you have nothing else to live for but yourself. If you can't live past yourself, you cannot forgive, bro. If you don't have somebody on the other side of you that you answer to, you won't be able to forgive. How can you forgive? Can't.

SPEAKER_01 34:18

Yeah. It's like interesting. I even thought of Isha's example with the forgiveness, how like oftentimes I've I've seen that it's it's not always for them too. It's always it can be for you too, but in a sense, too, when you're forgiving, I feel like you kind of feel a sense of pity. Because I was not, I'm not directly Isha that was wronged, but I still kind of felt like like wow, this is crazy. But even some of the stuff that after even Isha apologized, some of the stuff that was done after, it showed me that I just felt pity for them. Because it's like we're here, we've we're healing, we've been healed, but it seems like there's still a hurt on their side. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 34:59

Yeah, they still have to.

SPEAKER_01 35:00

Even when you know that the person hasn't done anything to you. But it's almost like a lie that you have to keep telling yourself to feel justified.

SPEAKER_05 35:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

And I've seen it like so many times where we had we had like, I'm not gonna bring it up, but it was someone that I know that we had like a kind of like a round table talk about like the past. Some of the stuff they were bringing up was stuff that it was, it was just so like out of like the ordinary that it was like they have a feeling, but they can't find anything to justify that feeling other than looking to find something that they can latch on to. And it was like grasping at straws. They still live there.

SPEAKER_03 35:44

I mean, think about it. A lot of people that can't like think about how you walk past a liquor store, and that 50-year-old guy is still talking about how he used to be the man back in high school.

SPEAKER_00 35:57

He used to play basketball. Yeah, and then he got in.

SPEAKER_03 36:02

Frozen in time. Frozen in time. Why? Because his soul is stuck there. What is the soul? And and you know, it's part of the conversation for today, but the soul is the place of the thoughts, right? The place of the feelings, the emotions, and the place of the action, right? So that place can literally be stuck on the last time it had an encounter of any sort. Any type of euphoria, any type of fear, any type of experience that marked them, your soul can be stuck there for the rest of your life. Still living the high school days, still living. You are 70 years old, brother. What else have you done with your life? Because if every free moment you're always referring back to something that happened 50 years ago, that means that you still live 50 years ago.

SPEAKER_00 36:50

That's scary, that's scary.

SPEAKER_01 36:53

Yeah, I'm just thinking that's so calm, it's common. So common. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 36:59

So scary.

SPEAKER_00 37:01

Very scary. All right. With that being said, we've already spent like an hour talking about. Oh, wow. Lovely, lovely, lovely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm just gonna introduce uh the main topic for today. So the main topic of today is pornography, right? And it's not only pornography use in the sense of Christians, but even outside of Christianity, like just everyday youth, um, adults, married men, married women, and one thing I realize as well, too, and I'm not sure why that is, but a lot of people attribute the use of pornography to only men, but it's things that women also deal with. Like I've spoken to a lot of females as well, and they also deal with this as well, too. And I was surprised because I'm like usually when I hear about that, I always hear about men. But um, I I had sent three anchor verses. Um, the first one is First Corinthians six, eighteen to twenty. It says, flee from sexual immorality, or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God. You are not your own, for you are bought with a price, so glorify God in your body. The second one I have is First Thessalonians four, three to five, for this is the will of God, your sanctification, that you abstain from sexual immorality, that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor, not in the passion of Alust, like the Gentiles who do not know God. And then Galatians 5, 16. But I say, walk by the spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. So yeah, let's open up the topic.

SPEAKER_01 38:56

It's crazy because I even I was looking at numbers while like kind of like looking into the topic, also, and it was on a study from Barna and Pure Desire, and it it said that over three and five Christians tell Barna that they agree a person can regularly view pornography and live a sexually healthy life. And I'll just like how did we kind of get here? Like, where like the world is so perverse that even Christians are kind of living in that, like, well, the world's reality.

SPEAKER_05 39:26

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:28

Man, um, let's use scripture. Let's go um let's start from 1 Thessalonians 4, verse 3 to 5. And let's couple it with 1 Peter chapter 2, verse 2. Um so 1 Thessalonians chapter 4, verse 3 to 5 says, For this is the will of God, your sanctification. So God wants you to be sanctified, He wants you to be washed, cleansed, um inside of your heart, right? If we look at um uh Ezekiel chapter 11, verse 19, it talks about I will put a new heart in them and a new spirit in them, right? So God's one of the purposes that God wanted to achieve in the heart of everybody that is in Christ is the sanctification of their heart, right? And it goes on to say that you should be abstain from sexual morality. This is very specific why, because it was written to a very specific people, specific group of people, that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, right? So this speaks to the responsibility of every believer to keep themselves in sanctification, right? Holding two things in view, sanctification, right? My heart separated from what is defiled and honor, my heart reverencing who I am in Christ, right? To this effect, not in passion of lust, right? Like the Gentiles who do not know God. It is the absence of knowledge of God that allows the Gentiles to move in that capacity. The Bible will say this awaken to righteousness and sin not. It is your awareness of your righteousness that allows you to stay away from sin. It is your awareness of who you have become in Christ that allows you to evade sin, right? If you had a white suit, the way that you will walk around would be very careful. But it's our inability to see who we are in Christ as the primary way that we are that allows us to fall into certain things. But I want to focus on one thing: the absence of knowledge of God, the understanding of who God is that allows the Gentiles to roam about wild and free. It says in Romans chapter 1, chapter 2, and chapter 3. Now, watch this. 1 Peter chapter 2, verse 2. It talks about, and I can start from the first one. It says, Therefore, laying aside all malice, all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, envy, and evil speaking, as newborn babes desire the pure milk of the word that you may grow thereby. It is the pure milk of the word that allows you to grow from infancy state, right? To where you are not won over by your flesh, right? But you are won over by your nature in Christ. It is the word that changes you, right? Again, what is the word? It's the revelation of God. It is the revelation of Christ, right? I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life. No one can get to the Father except through me. So if a Gentile will know God, the Father, is because they have known the Word through Jesus Christ that allows them to know the Father. Now let's go back to 1 Thessalonians chapter 4, verse 4. That each of you should possess your own should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, not in passion of lust, like the Gentiles who do not know God. So the absence of the knowledge of God will always lead you to walk around frivolous, like a Gentile who does not necessarily have any laws to keep them. Anyone that is not in Christ does not feel bad about sinning.

SPEAKER_00 43:32

And that's what I was gonna say as well. Like when I started watching uh pornography, um I was in the church, but like you said, right? You can be in the presence of God and not know God, right? So I feel like that was me. Like I didn't know God, grew up in the church, dad's a pastor, but yeah, I was still doing this thing that I wasn't supposed to be watching, right? And I didn't feel bad. I just thought it was normal. I just thought it was regular. I just thought it was whatever. Then when I got saved and actually started reading my Bible and and and and now I have access to the Holy Spirit. Like when I try to watch it or like do anything that I'm supposed to do, now I'm like, oh, I feel like terrible. Like I feel like, oh, like I just I just did the worst thing ever. So with that, I I I think anyway that that's that's what happens when you you would now have the knowledge of God and you now have the knowledge of Jesus Christ. Now you're like, okay, I can no longer live that certain way anymore because it just doesn't even feel right.

SPEAKER_03 44:43

Completely. And this is the thing. This is the tricky thing, bro. It's tricky, right? Because like we we go from being called, being saved, and we jump straight into like purpose, purpose, purpose. When realistically speaking, there has to be a formation inside of you, right? Like I think uh uh Pastor Ralph and Pastor Kofe um were sitting down and they talk about how people go from salvation to manifestation and they completely skip formation, right? Salvation, yes, you have received Jesus Christ, but the formation is what we see in 4 verse 4, right? That each of you should know how to possess his own vessel, bro. If IG is a trigger to you, now that you found yourself in the faith, don't go on IG.

SPEAKER_01 45:37

That's that's what we've been talking about.

SPEAKER_00 45:40

Like I've been off of uh Instagram, Twitter a lot for two years.

SPEAKER_03 45:44

You gotta be dang, that's a long time, brother.

SPEAKER_00 45:50

It was that I was just seeing the stuff that I'm not even following these things. Yeah, so like why am I still seeing this? Yeah, you know what? Let me just cut it off, cut everything off. That's it.

SPEAKER_03 46:01

But you gained power over that struggle once you did.

SPEAKER_01 46:06

That's why I asked, like, how do we even like get here? Because I feel like the way the world is now, like, in especially in pornography, you'll get caught at a young age. Yeah, but I remember getting like our first computer, it was like 10, 11. And next thing you know, you're clicking, playing games, clicking around, playing games, pop-ups.

SPEAKER_04 46:24

Um, I wasn't even the first time you see you're like, oh, this is gross.

SPEAKER_01 46:30

Let me click out. Next time it comes, oh wait. Let's investigate. Next thing you know, you're just sitting in the family room looking at watching how if parents are coming. The only like conviction I had was the conviction of getting caught. It wasn't anything else. That's it, that's it.

SPEAKER_03 46:46

That's it. And you know, I I think even before, like, because the interesting thing about the these three verses is verse 5, not not in passion of lust, like the Gentiles who do not know God, right? The interesting thing about the Gentiles who do not know God is the fact that realistically speaking, the the Gentiles were birthed out of Adam and Eve, right? The reason why we have Israelites, the Jews, and and the you know, that practice is because God set a Gentile man aside, Abram, a moon worshiper, and says, Hey, go to a land that I will show you, I will make you a great nation. God said, I need to start or I need to continue this, I need to bring this seed from my promise to my come to completion. Right? But realistically speaking, the state of the world at large, at large, was gentile state. Why? When we go back to Adam and Eve, let's go there. Let me show you something. Genesis chapter 3, verse 7.

SPEAKER_00 47:58

Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked, and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings. At the eight. And they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day. And Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden.

SPEAKER_03 48:19

Go all the way to ten.

SPEAKER_00 48:20

Then the Lord God called to Adam and said uh to him, Where are you? So he said, I heard your voice in the garden and I was afraid because I was naked and I hid myself.

SPEAKER_03 48:31

Beautiful. Now, when the Bible says that in Genesis chapter 2, verse 7, right? That when God breathed into man, he became a living soul. Right. The state of Adam was such that the life of God had partnered with his soul to make him a living soul, right? You understand me? That was the the life of God connected to the soul of man and made man able to operate in two places in the fellowship with God, and then because he had flesh, he was able to operate in the earth. You understand me? Now, what is the soul? The soul is the place of the thoughts, the emotions, the action, right? Now, watch what happens to Adam when he falls, right? The first and foremost, the verse seven says this in Genesis chapter three. It says, Then the eyes of both of them were open and they knew. Weird wording, right? How's your eyes open? Number one, how were you eating the fruit with your eyes closed? Like you feel me? Yeah, so we're we know we're speaking about a different set of eyes, the eyes of their understanding, right? It was open and they knew that they were naked. So their understanding brought them to a knowledge, a mental awareness, right? That wasn't supposed to be there, that was not supposed to be there, right? But if you jump down to what he says to God in the verse 10, it says, So I heard your voice in the garden, I was afraid, a feeling because I was naked, and I hid myself. In there, you see the operation of a fallen soul. I knew that I was naked, I was afraid, I felt an emotion, and I hid myself, the action. What is the soul? The place of the thoughts, the place of the emotions, the place of the actions. So the fallen soul knows nothing but to run away from God and to do what is contrary to the will of God. So the state of the world, once Adam and Eve entered the unrighteous nature, once they entered that place of the fallen nature, essentially, where they had fallen from the place of glory that God had put them, right? Was a natural nature to which would do everything contrary to the will of God, right? So naturally, the soul is disposition to reject God's righteousness. Anyone that is a gentile naturally rejects the righteousness of God, naturally, it's their nature. That's why they're called children of rach uh of wrath. Sorry, they're called children of wrath because naturally they reject everything that is God, so they must encounter wrath. It's the reality of the matter.

SPEAKER_01 51:24

So when it comes to like these children of wrath, and like what I noticed like in the chapter three, like I was reading it before, and what I noticed was that like up until now, God is like omnipresent. Well, he is omnipresent, but it's as if like the way it's written here, it's as if he appeared out of nowhere, like he snuck up on them. And is that like kind of like a testament to how closed their eyes were to the presence of God at that point? Ask that in a different way. Like, were they so unaware of the presence of God now that it almost seemed like he snuck on them? He snuck up on them after they had sinned.

SPEAKER_03 52:04

What had changed about them is the perceptions to which they were using to relate with God. You get me? Because the Bible says that their eyes were open and they knew, right? So now they started off with the perception in their soul fully on God, fully on God. Now they their perceptions had changed from fully on God to an awareness that it was fully on their flesh. I mean, look at the text. Sorry, let me just go back to it real quick. Look at the text. It says that then the eyes of both of them were open and they knew they were naked. Their perception went from being aware, they never knew that they were naked before that point.

SPEAKER_01 52:46

It's kind of like a TV interference, like where like now there's so much noise like between them and God, where it's like it's almost as if God isn't there in their mind.

SPEAKER_03 52:58

At all. And this is this is the crazy thing. This is our experiences every single time we were introduced to something else that was going to ruin our life, whether it's pornography, whether it's drugs, whether it's um bad toxic relationships, whatever the case may be. Whenever we are introduced to a new element in our life, first we reject it, but next we investigate it at some point we identify with it. It always happened that way. So coming back to pornography, you have to understand that for Gentiles, it's no skin off their back. Why? Because their soul doesn't even align with the convictions of God. Why? Their soul is separated from the life of God, so their soul naturally just does not like have an awareness of wrong. Somebody that's not a believer, see, and this is the this is the sound downside. We I think most of us grew up in the church. So we always got a sense of light. We always got hit with light. Yeah. So we always had this sense of like true north. But somebody that didn't grow up in the church, somebody that is unchurched, right? There are a lot of things that were not problematic to them. That's why Peter can grab a sword and cut somebody's ear off. That's why Peter can switch up because realistically he was introduced to a new faith to where he was never taught it. Like he was never worked in it. And when Jesus walked on this earth, he walked, Jesus walked in the pursuit of the Jews. Right? When he died, he made it available to the Gentiles. You get me? Yeah, I understand that. So nobody ever taught him how to walk the walk that is fully encompassing of every creed, every tribe, regardless of where you were found in the Jewish Israel, Gentile line, right? But to get back to it, it's it's the complexity to which now coming into the faith, your spirit is renewed. You're a believer, alright. But your soul has been slave to your flesh for a very long time. That's why the Bible, now you'll understand why the Bible says renew your mind. So you can offer your body as a living sacrifice. If you don't renew your mind, forget it. You'll just be a carnal Christian. Oh, you'll be a carnal Christian. Everything will bother you. If you if you can't bring your mind to love him most, you'll never be able to deny yourself. Never. Never. I don't think, at least.

SPEAKER_01 56:08

I was kind of just thinking like you don't think like it's just the way like the world is now. It's almost as if like even as a Christian, there's constantly like lust creeping at the door. Like you had mentioned to cut off like Instagram, so socials, everything. Then it's TV we consume, or then it's how people have been influenced to dress because of these things. So it's almost as if lust is creeping at the door everywhere you turn.

SPEAKER_03 56:38

Everywhere you turn. Yeah, definitely. And that's why Jesus would prescribe fasting. Fasting is a practice to which you get in the space to where you silence the flesh. A lot of people will make fasting about like social media fast, but you're eating three square meals a day. Bro, the thing that is informing your mind, your heart, and your will is still full intact. No, fast the flesh. If if if one one times a one time a week is not doing it for your flesh, fast until it triggers the flesh to shut up. Why? Because you're completely committed to possessing your body and honor and sanctification. So you suffer small. Suffer small. Small.

SPEAKER_00 57:30

And it's also interesting as well, too, because for me, when I was going through it, right? It's is I was trying my best to not um watch it, right? But because I was more so focused on not trying to do it, I was still falling into doing it, right? But when I kind of took my eyes off of it and just said, okay, honestly, God just helped me be more into the world and stop those uh distractions, uh, whether it's music, whether it's this, whether it's that, and not really even like focus on walking on eggshells all the time. I found it that it became easier to kind of cut that part out. I did follow time and time again, but it was it was easier to not constantly think about not watching porn. When I I I kind of focused my eyes toward toward toward God.

SPEAKER_03 58:36

Yeah, completely. That's the only way you get out. Right. I think the thing that annoys me is when we paint a picture of you came to Jesus, so therefore you have no room for mistakes, and there's no room for stumbling, or whatever the case may be. Because it's not in line with what scripture says, right? Bible says uh righteous man falls seven times and gets back up again, but uh wicked man falls and stays down, right? There is some level of conviction for you to want to get back up after you've fallen. You feel me? A wicked person saying, like, I'm gonna stay down, like you really don't care about the reason why you should stand up. You get me? You see Jesus Christ and his hard posture towards Peter, you're gonna deny me three times, brother. But I pray for you. The Bible says that he's constantly making intercessions on our behalf, right? There is this commitment to God to see you get it, to see you understand it. I mean everything in scripture reflects the idea that we know the truth. When we know the truth, the truth sets us free. But the Spirit of God is sent to reveal this truth to us, to teach us the word. You get me? So one thing that I I want to say to the audience and to our us that is that like regardless of what you're struggling with, you have to make sure that your heart posture is at a place where you see yourself, how God sees you, and you work diligently at living your life from that perspective, regardless of where you make a mistake. And living your life from that perspective means that you feed your soul with so much of what God thinks about you until you break out of that place of what you used to think about yourself. Like there was a time to where like masturbation, pornography, even like take a past pornography, womanizing, hitting up that that that side check, whatever the case may be, and just doing things was literally easy, like even as a believer, right? I would always feel bad, but I would also know that like I can ask for forgiveness. But then at some point, the light went off in my in my heart, in my head. It was like, no, someone really died for you. Like he really died for us, bro. Like it's no joke, like he really died. See, movies make Jesus like they put a little cloth on him. Nah, bro. No cloth, unrecognizable. And even on that cross, he says, forgive them for they know not what they do. The reason why they're doing that is because they don't know what they're doing. If they knew what they were doing, they wouldn't be doing it. Somebody really died for us. It's not a fairy tale, bro. Our sin was going to ruin our marriages. Our sin was gonna ruin our life. My temper would have gotten me killed a long time ago. But because he died for me, I can have his spirit in my heart. And when I say help, he helps. Why? Because he sits on the throne of mercy, he grants us grace. It's a real thing. The more you meditate on these things, how could you not want to change? You may struggle, but just keep focusing on the reality that he died for you. He's locked in. It's gonna change. You get me? So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:07

I say that even aligns with like, because I was speaking to um, there's someone at my church right now who's like going through a battle with cancer, and he's very sick. Wow. But like, one thing about him, like, he always find a way to preach to you. And like, I don't know why he was urged to say this, but I called to check on him about two, three weeks ago, and he was like, Michael, that battle that you're having, whether it's your weight or whatever it is, strengthen your spirit, man, and everything will work out. Wow. That's what he told me. And it it literally brought me to what Isha was saying about the like um oh like counting the days of like, oh, I haven't done this, I haven't done that. And for me, it was like, oh, day one, oh, I've been eating healthy. It's been 10 days I've ate healthy. Oh, it's been a month, I haven't watched porn. And it's like almost like you're focusing on the wrong thing. Yeah. So to the point where when you slip up, it's like a slippery slope from there. It's like you've given all up, and then you become that wicked man who's down and just sitting there. Sitting there to a point where oh, I was counting down the days that I'm now masturbating. Now you're masturbating every day, and now you're eating crazy every day. And it's because, like you said, your heart posture is on the wrong thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:22

Yeah, yeah. Looking at the fact that he's actually walking on water. He's looking at self. But you can't save yourself, bro. We're talking about salvation, the act of walking in the righteousness of God. You don't know what that like none of us really know what that encapsulates. Like, we know the little things that scripture like talks about in Galatians chapter 5.

SPEAKER_08 1:04:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:54

But then Paul will end off that scripture and say, and anything of the sort. Like, think about it. Like he he who like he talks about the fact that let's see if I can uh uh okay, let's start from the verse 16. It says, I say then walk in the spirit, and you you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh for the lust of the flesh against the um for the flesh lust against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh. And these contr these are contrary contrary, wow, English, to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are actual which are adultery, fornication, uncleanliness, lewdness, idolatry, uh sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wraths, selfish uh ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, Murders, drunkenness, revelies, and the like. So he lists out a list of things, but then he says, and the like, meaning anything else that falls falls into this category.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:14

No one no one outside of God can claim they they don't fall in this category.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:21

You feel me? So, like, realistically speaking, in order to walk this righteous life, you need the Spirit of God to help you. Because the like, he doesn't say TikTok in here. But if TikTok is where you're getting your porn, your soft porn, that's the like. Literally, what one thing that I was gonna talk about is the fact that fornication is actually the Greek word for that is pornea. Literally, that's where where that's the word porn comes from. Pornia. Pornography is literally pornography. Like the capturing of graph, like the writing down of porn or porno. Pornography. So that word for fornication is pornea. Let's give it a further breakdown. Well, you know, once you got Isaiah saying, wow, you you're doing something right. So it's like so pornea in the Greek means harlotry, including adultery and incest, figuratively, idolatry, fornication. Even pornea encapsulates idolatry. Why? Because you're lauding a naked body, and you are literally serving yourself the satisfaction you need. This this double idolatry. You're appreciating what you're seeing, you're satisfying yourself. Yeah, that's all I wanted to share.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:04

So I was just gonna say, so would you say like participating, like watching pornography is kind of like not the end go, but it's the like culmination of everything around us. Like it's kind of all like it all push pushes you towards lust and it's acted out in one way or another.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:29

Yeah, yeah, most definitely. Um what what does First John two fifteen say? Um if we can go there. Thank you, Jesus. Uh John 2 15. It says, Do not love the the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the father is not in him. 16 says, for all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, what your flesh desires, the lust of the eyes, what your eyes feast their eyes on, and then the pride of life, right? What you boast about in yourself, right? Is not of the father, but of the world. So every single time you were conditioned prior to Christ as a Gentile in your walk, in your life, you were conditioned by one of these three things.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:32

See, I feel like even like especially like I remember before, like when I was like cooked, like I would be like, I would be like, oh, like, especially like tick, like you were talking about soft porn, like TikTok. I don't know why in my mind I was like, oh, as long as I don't like act it out, as long as I don't watch porn and somebody like these things are fine. Like, oh, you scroll, you see a girl, you like it, you like you like the post, I'll come back to that later. You keep you scrolling, your now your Instagram, now your socials are filled with these things, but it's like, oh, I'm not acting it out, so it's fine. That's like what I used to think.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:08

Oh, yeah, most definitely. I mean, action is there, but action is not only in like if you look at someone a certain type of way, it's an action. Right? If and we've all done that at one point or another, like you look at a girl and you make eye contact, but what you're really can communicating is attraction, right? Like you didn't do anything, but in your heart, you've done something, you know, you got the point across, right? And that's what one thing that I want to say about honor. Honor isn't even outward sometimes, right? Like if I'm on IG and my wife is not home, and I'm over here going on a girl's page and enjoying what I'm seeing and lauding what I'm seeing and coveting what I'm seeing, I haven't left my house, I haven't even touched the girl, I haven't reached out to the girl, but I have dishonored my wife. Why? Because honor is how you esteem someone in your heart. So go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:16

And like even with that, uh for for a long time I didn't understand that verse in Matthew when Jesus says that if you even look at a woman um in your heart, you've already uh committed adultery with her.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:33

And I'm just like how is that possible?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:40

Yeah, yeah. But I think with what we're talking about, that's that's exactly what it is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:45

So yeah, yeah, the the the partnership can be on so many different levels, right? Like the agreement to sin can be on so many different levels, can be in your flash when you physically do it, it can be with your eyes, what you see, because those are the windows to your soul as well, right? And then it can be in your in your in the pride, like pride is not external, you could be very proud and act very humble. You feel me? But God sees the heart and he's like, nah. You know, the interesting thing about God is when he wanted to create a new people, he really the two things he attacked. I need to give him a new heart. I need to give him a new spirit. Meaning that God searching and looking at our heart is one of the deepest senses or the the quickest ways he judges where we are in our life. Where's your heart at? That's it.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:56

So in terms of the heart posture, can like someone even be deceived of their own heart, like posture? Because I even think of those who come to Jesus talking about he prophesied in his name, they did this and this thing. Were these people who were truly deceived, who deceived themselves into thinking they were doing the right thing, but in the in their hearts, maybe not even known to themselves they were doing it for the wrong reason.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:22

It depends on how they were discipled.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:25

Like him.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:27

The reason why I say that is because you know, you can um be in a certain faith system to where you come to believe because you know somebody's discipling you that perhaps like um you know, doing things like XYZ is actually a matter of like obeying God and not obeying yourself, right? Or obeying God, like not obeying people or serving people or whatever the case may be. But when you open up scripture, can you see what they've discipled you in in scripture? Right? And sometimes people can be deceived because they pray the loudest in tongues, or they play, they they pray the longest, they they can pray for 12 hours. Shout out to my people that pray for 12 hours. Um, they can they read this the Bible at least twice a year, or whatever the case may be, and they've developed a form of godliness in that, but realistically speaking, in their heart, they think they are justified because of their actions. But you're not justified because of your actions, you're justified because Christ came and died for you, right? So, you know, when Jesus Christ is saying, Depart from me, I never knew you. I believe it's uh Matthew chapter 7, verse 21 for a reference for the people that are speaking or listening. He says, Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my father in heaven, he was speaking to a people that were unsaved, that would have the opportunity to be saved. And the first desire of the father is that they would receive him as a personal savior, right? That's the first thing. So I I I believe that um many people would come to God saying, Hey, look at what we did as the conglomerate, right? But the question would become, Well, did you do what I desired of you? Yeah, right, which is number one salvation, and then what carries after. But people could be very deceived, yeah, bro. Like, I used to think that becoming a pastor would mean that I'm going to have a first class ticket straight. Just get there, and then I realize that some pastors cheat on their wives. Yeah. You feel me? Like, not to say that this is the norm, it's not the norm in the kingdom, but some do. Yeah. Right? That some men of God and women of God are really sketchy in in their behavior. It's marrying it for like the money and for money, and can still do miracles, especially back home in Ghana.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:10

It's a job, it's a job. It's a job, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:14

Shout out to Ghana, yeah. I believe in you guys.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:21

But yeah, man, it's it's a it's a very it's it's a very tricky thing because sometimes people think that character is charisma. But character is as a result of being exposed to another character, Jesus Christ. Charisma is as a result of Jesus coming to give you something to use, the gift. You feel me? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:46

And one thing that I have a lot of like beefs with with the church sometimes, right? And one of my primary ones is, for example, for a topic like this, why why is it that sometimes churches kind of shy away from from speaking to youth about going through pornography, uh uh sex and things like that? Like we feel as though, like, yes, it is filthy, I agree, but why why don't we speak to the youth that may be going through it, or or even the adults, the elders who are going through it, why do we feel the need to kind of shy away from it or or just kind of close our eyes and act like it's not happening?

SPEAKER_01 1:17:36

I was even gonna say, like, to your point, it creates like an or like kind of like an aura of like perfection amongst leaders. Like, I went to um one of Alan's youth camp camps last year, and like it was actually one of the first times that I've seen like leaders actually be like, oh, like one of the pastors was saying, Oh, he used to like down fifths of honey and link with women link with women in the dorms room. Powerful I've no powerful men of God. I've never heard I've never heard people like be so open like of their past before they came to Christ.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:11

They were all in like fraternities too. Oh they went through all then they'll tell us about their story and all that. I might visit your church, bro. I need I need that transparency out here.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:18

And it made it so like almost I like even like with like our moms and our dads, right? Like like some well my dad he's pretty open, but like a lot of like dads and moms that I hear, oh at your age I didn't smoke, at your age I didn't drink, at your age I didn't fornicate, I didn't do this. But you were pregnant at 16 and you you you did things. I did the math. It's kind of like like like why why are we trying to put on this show as if we're perfect when I'm somebody that I would want to put out the things that I I went through so that I can help somebody else out that might be going through the same thing. But I feel like in the church that doesn't happen as often as it should that okay, at your age, here's what happened, stay away from that instead of acting as though, oh, it's just not happening. And then when somebody else falls in in the same trap that you fell in 25 years ago, it's it's frowned upon when you could have used your the fact that you were saved from that thing to kind of help that person out. Like why why is that? That's one of my beefs with the church heavy. Uh shame.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:40

I think I think to an extent there's some shame surrounding it because you almost have to acknowledge that you actually did that, right? Um, some some for some people it's fear. Like if I reminisce long enough, will I become that person? Will I miss those things? Will I want to redo those things? But I think sometimes it's fear that talking about it is almost endorsement to the person that's listened to you to go do it. Um and that's what I've seen. I I come from uh church to where um shout out church pentecost, um, PLWC, what's there? Um, you know, sometimes the fear in um talking about it is really just simply like if I talk about it and they find out that this elder, this pastor that is in front of them right now turned out okay, even with a bad past like he had or she had or whatever the case may be, it would encourage the youth to you know tread the same line and then come to God. I got time to the same thing. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I got time to lock in. Yeah, I got time to lock in essentially. And I I think sometimes naturally, right? Uh I I'm I'm exposed a lot to African-centric church, Afrocentric churches, right? Naturally, parents don't like to tread in places to where it almost gives their children authority to go and try the same thing that the parents did because oh, you did it too, right? So, like, you know what I mean? If they did it, then they almost don't have the authority to tell them, tell their kids not to do it, which is cut quite like contrary.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:39

And I think that was something that we talked about this week, right? About how I was speaking to you guys, like obviously, like in my church, I I uh teach the kids, right? But there's certain things that I don't want to teach them because of the fact that I don't want their moms and dads to think that I'm saying it's okay, yeah. But however, these kids are learning these things in school. School already. Yep, you might be able to do that. I think that your kid is innocent, but I'm sorry to tell you. Likely not. Yeah, but I do understand that thought part of that. Yeah, okay. Like, and I don't want to be blamed for them hearing that I'm teaching their kids this thing that they already know. Yeah, so yeah, that's that's a good point, too.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:23

It's it's proper exposure, right? Like, I I let's take an example from Jesus Christ. He told them, like, hey, from now on, carry this sword with you. Because you're probably gonna need it, right? There there's there's a sense of letting some like a proper orientation, like, hey, this is what the Bible says about this, this is how it stands on it, this is the probable impact of what's going to happen, but then you give them the practical. I know when I ignored this scripture, what happened to my life? And that's why I'm asking you guys to please listen to the scripture. What you have just done is you have equipped them with the ability to decide when that temptation comes, because it will come. If you avoid telling them what they can choose to do and why they should do it based off of scripture and your personal experience, then you have robbed them of the tools they need in order to say no when that situation comes. And now we run the risk of the fact that they ate of the fruit and their eyes were open.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:48

It's so tough though, right? But I feel like people just don't listen, right? But because like I had an experience, like this was last year, right? So I was telling not kids, but because I'm probably like three years older than them, so I'm not like too much older than them, right? But I was telling them not to drink, not to smoke, not to fornicate, this, that, and the third. And mind you, they know me before I like I am what I am now, right? So their response was, oh, so why are you trying to stop us from having the fun that you had?

SPEAKER_04 1:24:27

And I'm like, yo, valid point, valid point, eh?

SPEAKER_00 1:24:35

This was like if I had the same knowledge that I have now when I was two, three, four, five, six years ago, I would have moved completely different. You know what I'm saying? Now it's kind of like I'm playing like we all started in a race, right? And I'm still back here and I'm trying to catch up. When five years ago, I could have just locked in and avoided a lot of the game that I went through. But they don't understand that because they're at that age and God bless them, right? But it it pains me because I'm like, yo, I don't want you guys to go through this. Like, bro, like I actually just don't don't want you guys to go through this. But unfortunately, I feel like people have to learn sometimes, right? Like our Muhammad and our dads have taught us don't do this, don't do that, don't do this, and we've done it and we've saw the repercussions of doing it.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:29

So I feel like I sometimes that needs to happen.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:33

It's like you can't like you can't afford to be like naive when like kind of leading people. Especially because like I feel like times are going getting to points where it's gonna be even harder. Like not to sound pessimistic, but like the way like technology would advance the way the world is already how it is, it may be even harder to like um like lust may be even like every like it's like times 10 what it is now.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:00

We're using VRs nowadays, bro.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:02

Like it might be like in the meta glasses, it might be it's gonna get like I feel like it's gonna get even worse. So like they kind of have to be equipped even earlier now. Yeah, most definitely.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:13

I think um so I I got a question for Ishay, and then I'll come back to what uh Mike was saying, but how how did you handle it though? Like how how did you respond to them when they said that?

SPEAKER_00 1:26:24

I just kept pressed, I was like, oh, like I don't want you guys to to to struggle with certain things that I struggled with, and I will have to at that. Because at that point, I could tell that they weren't trying to hear nothing, nothing else, yeah. But but but I just ended it with that and that was it.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:44

Yeah, that's fair, that's fair. I think what I'm starting to realize now is that the method of telling people what to do doesn't really work. I mean, look at God, he tried it. He gave like got God tried it, like he literally gave us the law or gave the Jews the law. Gave him 600 and however many laws, 634 or 600. Don't quote me on it, don't quote me on the internet. Um, he gave them roughly 600, right? Like, and they ain't listened to not no not not even one, bro. Like that they had to kill goat, cow, sheep, whatever, over and over. Then Jesus comes and he's like, I got a model for you, discipleship. See, we have made the church, I personally believe, that the system of the church is not the way God would have intended it. Because we bought a building, we told people to show up for different services to come and receive the word from the set woman, a man of God, right? And to go home and to review their. Notes and then you know come back for more teaching later on. There's a place for that, right? But I think discipleship is where we do life together where you see me bleed. Now, if they had seen you at that time and how you struggled with liquor, that statement would have been a lot more different. Because the goal of Jesus Christ was not go and make churches, it says go make disciples. He showed us how he made disciples. Jesus ate at Peter's house. He washed their feet. He walked with them like he was at home with them. He like he did life with them. To the point where Judas knew where to find Jesus when it was time to betray him. To the point where the the disciples were shocked that Jesus was talking to a woman in John chapter 4. Why? Because they knew his cadence, they knew his lifestyle. You feel me? Yeah. I I think nowadays and even in times past, we have been so used to just telling people the right thing, giving them scripture. But you don't even know what drives the person that you're speaking to. True.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:36

Don't know anything.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:38

We have no clue.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:39

Like you, like to your point, like it's like in today's like day and age of church, it's like, especially like a lot of the youth that I've like spoken to, it's like a lot of times, the only time I'm speaking to like this uncle or auntie in church is like, oh, oh, my daughter, you're on the program this week, and that's it. Yeah, I haven't spoken to you or see how your day's doing, nothing. I don't know anything about you, and that's what you're speaking to me about.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:06

But peep scheme, that best friend is at their house all the time. That best friend knows the fights that are going on in the house. So, of course, if that best friend says, Let's go to a party, you're going.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:22

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:24

You feel me? I think the idea of amassing so many followers has robbed us of accomplishing God's this desire, which is discipleship. It's so much easier for your voice to go far in somebody's life, even like from a prophetic point of view, you have more prophetic impact in somebody that actually values your word, the word that you spoke to them, than somebody that just heard you at a service. The faith that they align with, or the faith that they they project to meet the word that was spoken, is what brings about the results. But if there's no respect, there is no honor, there is no relationship, that prophetic word might fall to the ground. It's the same thing with like impact. Jesus was only able they only live for Jesus because they walked with him. Look at how Peter talks about it. Look at how John talks about that which we saw. That's we that let's go there. First John. Chapter one, verse one, two, and three. Chapter one, verse one, two, and three. Yep. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:01

Uh that which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands concerning the world of life. The life was made manifest and we have seen it, and testify to it to proclaim you eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us. Three. That which we have seen and heard, we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us. And indeed, our fellowship is with the Father, uh, and with this and with his son Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:38

Beautiful. That word for fellowship, right, is Koinonia. You guys have heard it before. Yeah, is partnership. That is literally participation or social intercourse or pecuniary benefaction to communicate or communication, commune, uh, distribution, fellowship. Now, this guy is saying that what we heard, we saw it with our own eyes. We looked upon it, our hands literally handled. Thomas put his hand in that, in his hands. That's who we are talking about. We are talking about him from the perspective of what we encountered for ourselves. And the reason why it happened like that is that when we write about him and you read about him, you can have the same fellowship that we had. So when you're reading scripture and you feel him close, it's because somebody was close to him. When you're reading 1 Peter and is talking about you will do well to pay attention to this word as a shining light, a light that shines in the darkness, right? And you are gaining faith within yourself, your faith is going from glory to glory, is because of somebody that literally sat down and ate with him and was able to write about him. And because they wrote about him based off of the fact that they walked with him, now you get to have a deeper sense of relationship and fellowship with the Lord Himself. So this thing called discipleship is the primary, most singular way of God being able to sustain his church on earth. Peter, who do you who do they say that I am? Some say Elijah, some say Isaiah, some say the prophet, all these things. Oh, who do you say that I am? You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God. You can't make that type of statement from afar. Nah, I've been walking with you. There's only one thing that you could possibly be. You're the Christ. Blessed are you, Simon Barjonh, for flesh and blood have not revealed this to you, but my father who are in heaven. You are so close to the Son of God that the Father can speak to you.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:01

Like it's personal.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:02

Yeah. Oh. So I I think even in in looking to overcome things like pornography, uh, things like any type of addiction, if you find yourself struggling, I think one of the first things I know, not I think one of the first things we need is exposure to the hidden sin. You need communion. You need somebody to tell, you need somebody to pray with you, you need somebody to teach you the word to help them get out of it. We need that as men, we need that as a woman, we need that as or they need that as women. I'm not a woman, but we need that as a community, especially in the faith. Pornography is sinful, it is affecting our soul. If we partake in it, it will affect our destiny, right? Because at the end of the day, if your conscience, Hebrews chapter 9, verse 14, the blood of Jesus is able to cleanse your conscience from dead works, that you may serve a living God, and you are created for good works, then that means that we need to confront the soul and extract whatever is in the soul, what whatever is wicked in the soul out of you. So it needs to be confronted. You need community for that, you need the word, you need prayer, you need fasting, all of that, but we need to address it, or else it's gonna ruin things. Imagine looking at your wife and just seeing a sex figure, and you can't, you can't look past that. You can't, you can't like you want to, but you can't stand her when it's not sex, yeah. Alan, you haven't spoken, bro. Talk to me, talk to me, talk to me, say something.

SPEAKER_06 1:37:07

I'm just I'm just listening, I'm just I'm learning right now. Yeah, yeah, I'm learning a lot right now.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:12

But yeah. Alright, so with that being said, I know we're running out of time. Yeah, we're probably gonna have a part two, honestly, because yeah, this it's been two hours and it's f and it literally flew by.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:27

I was even gonna ask, like, lastly, like so at what point do you know like you're being sanctified, you're like becoming closer with Christ when it comes to specifically like battling like lust. Is it just being able to cut off things that will like easily push lust towards you, or is it like not necessarily a point where like you don't feel lust, but like you're able to like recognize it and kind of like stop it at the source before yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:01

See the cutoff and even the resistance that you build against any sin um is uh uh honestly towards the end stages of your deliverance. The preliminary stages have nothing to do with how you feel or what you think, it has everything to do with exposing your mind to what the word of God says. That's that's when the dissentification process begins. I just want to give one scripture um Ephesians chapter 5, um Ephesians chapter 5, verse um 26. Um, and for the sake of time, um, it says that he might let me start from the verse 25. It says, Husband, love your wives just as Christ also loved the church and gave himself for her, that he might sanctify her and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word. The moment you engage the word, the sanctification process has already started. Now, the end of the word is the manifestation of the word in your life. That's when we can say, like, I bet I probably shouldn't do this. You might stumble, or I bet I'm not going to do this. Why? Because now the word is finishing up the cleansing process. But the moment you engage the word, the sanctification process has already started. Yeah. Thank you for that. Yeah, always. Alright.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:37

With that being said, um we're we're we're 100% gonna have a part two. We just have to see when he's free next to the busy man. But yeah, I I don't think we even got through half of the things that I actually wanted us to talk about as well. So we're we're gonna have a part two. So um, with that being said, uh where's your head at for the next two weeks? Start with Allen that we'll go wrong.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:01

Um mine. My birthday is coming up in two weeks. How old are you turning? I don't want to say it. No, because I'll be you don't want to say it. You don't want to say it. 2025. So I'll be pushing 30. My friend, my friend, my friend, my friend. I'll finally be pushing 30. I've been saying to these guys for the past few years, so that's up. And then I'm also having a program at my church that I'm actually the one planning kind of a youth um prayer and worship night for two days.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:33

You gotta shout it out so they know what to come.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:35

Yeah, it's gonna be um at CPIC, Christ Pentecostal International Church, on June 19th and 20th. Wow. The first night would be prayer and deliverance, and the second night would be worship and praise. So if you can't make both days, at least come Saturday and just come worship with us. Yeah, cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:54

For me, um my head is just continuing to like improve every day, whether it's getting in my word, um, whether it comes to fitness, have a little more free time because school is over for now. So just taking the summer to taking advantage of the summer while I have some more time. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:13

Right. Um, I'm looking forward to hanging out with my wife. I feel like she's been the sacrificial lamb for uh for the past month or so, you know, just engagement after engagement. So hanging out with her, and then also uh there's some projects that I'm starting, and I'm excited to see what you know the next two weeks develop into. So yeah, I'm excited. Thank you for having me, you guys, by the way. Thank you for coming, man. Thank you, and Igi, for coming. Always, always, always mummy e. Shout out, babe.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:44

Uh I'd say for me, it's kind of more the same as Mike. Um, except I just started school again. Yeah, so um, yeah, it is a lot less free time now. There's a lot of things I'm working on. But yeah, at the end of the day, just thank God that we even have the time to do the things that we need to do. Um, so with that being said, my name is Isha. It's your boy Mike. I'm Allen. I'm Rich. And we'll see you guys. Thank you for tuning in and watching this episode. Don't forget to like, comment, subscribe, and share. Bye.